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WAR is just as Gear Based as any other game..

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  • GreenChaosGreenChaos Member Posts: 2,268

    CoX had no gear.  This is one of reason is was not as popular as others games.  Cryptic has mentioned this.



    It's one of main reasons I love CoX.  But most people want a grind fest/gear fest/raid fest WoW crap. 

  • GreenChaosGreenChaos Member Posts: 2,268

    Gear is great in a full looting game. Let some else grind for it, then PK them. Ah, the gold old days.

  • elvenangelelvenangel Member Posts: 2,205

     

    Originally posted by GreenChaos


    Gear is great in a full looting game. Let some else grind for it, then PK them. Ah, the gold old days.

     

    This is considered atleast by me an epic failure comment.   Games with Full Looting shouldn't require you to invest tons of hours PvEing only to have it stolen by some jackals waiting in the wind.  This sort of attitude is what turned me off to UO..infact its one of the reasons as an original UO player I'm glad it failed.  Full Looting games only encourages jackass behavior.

    People want rewards for the hours and hours they dedicate to the game.  To me it doesn't need to be gear, it could be money or faction used to spend towards something.    

    CoX...seriously what do super hereos need gear for anyway?  I know people who enjoy it gear or not and its done well for itself I hardly consider CoX a failure at all.

    btw I hate PvE WoW style raids period...I hate worthless grinds that add no depth to the game.   I want rewards and I want a challenge to get it..but I don't want to spend my entire natural life running a rat race hoping to get a glimpse of it.  Thats what WoW does you know..they make you run a lil rat maze for everything...it keeps people who dont know better happy and it keeps people who can't find anything else hoping it gets better so they keep paying. 

    Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!

  • Shifty360Shifty360 Member Posts: 629

    Originally posted by GreenChaos


    CoX had no gear.  This is one of reason is was not as popular as others games.  Cryptic has mentioned this.



    It's one of main reasons I love CoX.  But most people want a grind fest/gear fest/raid fest WoW crap. 
    Weird, I have never heard a single CoX player say he or she disliked the game because she had no gear.
  • ManmadegodManmadegod Member Posts: 501

    Originally posted by elvenangel


     
    Originally posted by GreenChaos


    Gear is great in a full looting game. Let some else grind for it, then PK them. Ah, the gold old days.

     

    This is considered atleast by me an epic failure comment.   Games with Full Looting shouldn't require you to invest tons of hours PvEing only to have it stolen by some jackals waiting in the wind.  This sort of attitude is what turned me off to UO..infact its one of the reasons as an original UO player I'm glad it failed.  Full Looting games only encourages jackass behavior.

    People want rewards for the hours and hours they dedicate to the game.  To me it doesn't need to be gear, it could be money or faction used to spend towards something.    

    CoX...seriously what do super hereos need gear for anyway?  I know people who enjoy it gear or not and its done well for itself I hardly consider CoX a failure at all.

    btw I hate PvE WoW style raids period...I hate worthless grinds that add no depth to the game.   I want rewards and I want a challenge to get it..but I don't want to spend my entire natural life running a rat race hoping to get a glimpse of it.  Thats what WoW does you know..they make you run a lil rat maze for everything...it keeps people who dont know better happy and it keeps people who can't find anything else hoping it gets better so they keep paying. 

    You didn't have to wear your best gear outside of town or those guild meetings. Lord knows, I didn't wear my best to go PK'ing randomly. I mean that would only lead to getting my things looted when trapped by a mob of people.

    Risk vs Reward

  • elvenangelelvenangel Member Posts: 2,205

     

    Originally posted by Manmadegod


     
    Originally posted by elvenangel


     
    Originally posted by GreenChaos


    Gear is great in a full looting game. Let some else grind for it, then PK them. Ah, the gold old days.

     

    This is considered atleast by me an epic failure comment.   Games with Full Looting shouldn't require you to invest tons of hours PvEing only to have it stolen by some jackals waiting in the wind.  This sort of attitude is what turned me off to UO..infact its one of the reasons as an original UO player I'm glad it failed.  Full Looting games only encourages jackass behavior.

    People want rewards for the hours and hours they dedicate to the game.  To me it doesn't need to be gear, it could be money or faction used to spend towards something.    

    CoX...seriously what do super hereos need gear for anyway?  I know people who enjoy it gear or not and its done well for itself I hardly consider CoX a failure at all.

    btw I hate PvE WoW style raids period...I hate worthless grinds that add no depth to the game.   I want rewards and I want a challenge to get it..but I don't want to spend my entire natural life running a rat race hoping to get a glimpse of it.  Thats what WoW does you know..they make you run a lil rat maze for everything...it keeps people who dont know better happy and it keeps people who can't find anything else hoping it gets better so they keep paying. 

     

    You didn't have to wear your best gear outside of town or those guild meetings. Lord knows, I didn't wear my best to go PK'ing randomly. I mean that would only lead to getting my things looted when trapped by a mob of people.

    Risk vs Reward

    I could never get the gear because the moment i left town even completely naked to just go kill some rabbits pk's would jump me and my computer would lag me out.  I never joined a guild because mos tof them were JUST as bad as the PKs infact most of the guilds were PKs that tried to pretend they had some sort of honor.  

     It effectively ruined the game for alot of people like myself who were just trying to learn the game... their answer to it every single time only made it worse and in the end it destroyed the game with Trammel.   Perosnally anyone guilty of murder in a medievil setting should of had bounties set by the NPC Ruler of the Land like any real Medievil setting making them way more attractive to kill than poor noobs.  What did Origins do? They had players pay for the bounties..and if you were new and poor you couldn't put a bounty on anyone's head.  There was no justice for the most common player.  So pretty much the bounty system didn't work since it was only player based.

    Risk vs Reward  in the fashion of the lawlessness of UO is barbaric.  I"m glad WAR is against the PK gamestyle otherwise I'd look the otherway.  PKs will just have to wait for Darkfall.  If it ever releases.  

    PK's & Risk vs Reward for the lose.

    Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!

  • ManmadegodManmadegod Member Posts: 501

    Ah, come on now. Most people in Ultima Online didn't have that kinda crazy amounts of PK. How often did you really run into a PK? I got pk'd a few times while grinding different characters. You didn't have to slog through PvE content for days or months to get gear. You could EASILY compete in crafted gear or no gear at all.. I used to PK wearing a deer helmet and a kilt.... 

    I think you are being overly dramatic in the amount of PK's you had to swim through- to open your bank box. There were tons of guilds that ran police forces that they would call Anti-PK guilds.

    Don't get me wrong,  I don't condone destroying noob's without any gear - but at the same time there weren't pks camping all sides of every town of the game, stopping you from leveling. Sure, frustrating that you die on the game and you may or may not have been looted but I if you had won - you could have looted them.

    Shrug, anyways - Hope you give games with open pvp tries in the future such as Darkfall if it ever releases of course but don't hold your breath.

  • zollenzollen Member Posts: 351

    Originally posted by Manmadegod


    Guild wars is still fairly gear based imo.
    How so? Care to explain?

     

  • elvenangelelvenangel Member Posts: 2,205

    Originally posted by Manmadegod


    Ah, come on now. Most people in Ultima Online didn't have that kinda crazy amounts of PK. How often did you really run into a PK? I got pk'd a few times while grinding different characters. You didn't have to slog through PvE content for days or months to get gear. You could EASILY compete in crafted gear or no gear at all.. I used to PK wearing a deer helmet and a kilt.... 
    I think you are being overly dramatic in the amount of PK's you had to swim through- to open your bank box. There were tons of guilds that ran police forces that they would call Anti-PK guilds.
    Don't get me wrong,  I don't condone destroying noob's without any gear - but at the same time there weren't pks camping all sides of every town of the game, stopping you from leveling. Sure, frustrating that you die on the game and you may or may not have been looted but I if you had won - you could have looted them.
    Shrug, anyways - Hope you give games with open pvp tries in the future such as Darkfall if it ever releases of course but don't hold your breath.
    Every time I hit the cross roads there wsa a band waiting.  I very rarely was killed by a person who was working alone unless he was on a horse and then he just charged me down and fireballed me in the back..hell he charged me and a friend down and killed us both despite us running in opposite directions.

    Maybe your server wasn't heavily populated with them but mine was.  I will never give a true Open PvP game a try .. especially after seeing how jackass alot of its hardcorest hater style  supporters support it.   Will I hate on games that are built for it? No...because its a game and others may like it but I don't.

    A person's experience always boils down to what server they were on..I suppose I was unlucky in every try I gave UO...because I was never able to progress pass being a woodcutter or a simple miner since going outside the city to adventure pretty much meant death until Trammel.  Then it was just boring.  Without a Game enforced Policing system true Open PvP games in my experience..are just gank fests.

     

    Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    Gearbased games are easy mode for devs. Its an easy to install incentive for players to progress, even if content is very repetitive. No need for entertaining storylines, just put juicy gear at the end of the road. And it has another advantage. New expansions with more and even more powerfull gear. They chose for this road clearly with expansions in mind.

    In arena based PVP im deadset against gearbased advantages. I find it very silly to earn your PVP advantage in PVE in this situation. It simply doesnt make sense.

    In siege based PVP i dont care that much about gearbased advantages. The pure fun of chaos and zerging will make up for it.

    To bad that many players nowadays expect high lvl caps, a never ending release of new and even more powerfull gear and are not even in the least interested in storylines (except for some players). I cant stand questguide using groups anymore (this seems to be somehow related to the hamster lvl wheel crap). So incredibly boring.

    Guild Wars showed gear based is not necessary. It also showed how some players are very rigid in how they think about how a MMO should be.

     

  • DameonkDameonk Member UncommonPosts: 1,914

     

    Originally posted by elvenangel


     


    Every time I hit the cross roads there wsa a band waiting.  I very rarely was killed by a person who was working alone unless he was on a horse and then he just charged me down and fireballed me in the back..hell he charged me and a friend down and killed us both despite us running in opposite directions.
     
    Maybe your server wasn't heavily populated with them but mine was.  I will never give a true Open PvP game a try .. especially after seeing how jackass alot of its hardcorest hater style  supporters support it.   Will I hate on games that are built for it? No...because its a game and others may like it but I don't.
    A person's experience always boils down to what server they were on..I suppose I was unlucky in every try I gave UO...because I was never able to progress pass being a woodcutter or a simple miner since going outside the city to adventure pretty much meant death until Trammel.  Then it was just boring.  Without a Game enforced Policing system true Open PvP games in my experience..are just gank fests.

     

    Come on... really?

    I played on Chesapeake and Baja both of which were heavily PvP oriented servers and I had no trouble adventuring, raising my skills or finding a guild of people to play with (that became life long friends).

    Your problem is you were trying to be a woodcutter or a miner.  Those are not something you progress past in UO, you were either a fighter or a crafter, not both.  Also harvesters are the type of player that PKs targeted the most.  If you wanted to be a crafter you should have made some friends in town and got them to protect you while you were mining for a share of the ingots.

    I remember the little cave outside of one of the cities (can't remember the name now, but the cave was near a bridge with water running under it, near the swamp) where my guild mates and I would protect our crafting guildies from the PKers.

    Game enforced PvP policies?  Game Enforced Bounties?  You are missing the entire point of what UO was.  It was a "world"  something that has been missing from every game since.  It wasn't about leveling, or getting gear, or killing the raid boss.  It was about living in a virtual world.

    I also guarantee that if UO came out today with graphics akin to AoC that it would be one of the most successful MMO games ever.

    Edit:  There was a perfectly acceptable Game Enforced PvP and Bounty system in UO, it was called the Murder system, and it had pretty harsh penalties for PKers.  If you wanted someone's head you could put your own money up to whoever delivered the head of that person.  No need for more system intervention.  The less the game dictates about what you can do, the better, imho.

    PS.  Sorry about hijacking the thread, but these types of posts irritate me.  Just because you did not take the time to learn the game or attempt to make friends does not mean the game sucked, it just means you weren't very good at playing it.

    "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."

  • WickershamWickersham Member UncommonPosts: 2,379

     

    Originally posted by Bladin


     
    Originally posted by Wickersham


     
    Originally posted by Bladin


    God forbid in war we'd actually have to do pvp objectives to get gear to pvp with.
    I mean like omigosh.  Just because the entire game is one long campaign to city sieging, doesn't mean that city sieging should be important!  Like omigosh! IT's so sickening, i can't believe the goal everyone is trying to achieve actually offers rewards!
    It's preposterous!

     

    So city sieging is unimportant without gear drops?

    If the cities didn't drop better loot you wouldn't do it?

    Would you play this game if the best gear was crafted?

    Crafting sucks, if the best gear was crafted, i honestly wouldn't play.

     

    I've had my fill of crafting, hit XX number of nodes, to get some XX mats, to grind up to make the best gear.  No.  Just no.   Crafting is nothing but a time sink.

    I want to go pvp, i want to get rewards from doing pvp.  I don't want to raid pve dungeons in war.  I don't want to run around zones for 3 hours getting mats to craft one of the many pieces of gear i can get.

    I want war to pvp.  If you want war for any reason other then the pvp.  It's time you find a different game.



    Here is the thing fella,

     

    I want WAR for PvP.  You want WAR for rewards.  See  the difference?  You want a nice shiny reward for playing a game that is supposed to be played for fun.  If your friends call up and say "let's go to the park and play a little football", do you ask:  "if we win are you going to give me new shoes?"

    Now, in a game based around PvP it is important to have balance.  When I go up against an enemy we should have an equal chance of winning - the difference should be our knowledge of our template, our RL abilities, and our knowledge about our enemies template.  In a RvR fight it should come down to the same as above with things like cooperation and priority killing added on.  What should not be a factor is gear - not ever!  Or maybe you don't think you can't win in an equal PvP fight and need a crutch?

    Warhammer is supposed to have what many MMOs these days don't have - END GAME - the reason to play beyond level cap.  The RvR is the endgame.  WoW does not have an endgame and so we are trapped jumping thru hoops collecting gear as our end game.  Why would a game like WAR, that states it has an end game, restort to tricks used by games that don't have it?  Doesn't that make you wonder?

    As I said in a post above:  The only thing uber gear does in a PvP game is make inbalance between players of equal talent while shutting out those with lesser gear and/or lesser talent.  Is that smart game design?

     

    "The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  • People who designed WAR did it based off of their feed back from .. Well.. WAR looks like wow with a few more rules and more of a PvP base. That's fine. I don't care as the as the game isn't gear based, or if it is, make it easy to get the gear so it's skill based. Tired of playing people with too much free time to gather gear and farm me.

  • tikovootikovoo Member Posts: 289

    Not looking forward to potentially 5 long drawn out scenerio instances in capitol city sieging to get one piece of best gear...

    Then the world resets and have to do the same all over again.

    I want the advantage but not the raid type hours to suit. I don't mind a few hours for a chance but the way Caroline koh puts it, its going to be a long stretch..

  • DuraheLLDuraheLL Member Posts: 2,951
    Originally posted by tikovoo


    Not looking forward to potentially 5 long drawn out scenerio instances in capitol city sieging to get one piece of best gear...
    Then the world resets and have to do the same all over again.
    I want the advantage but not the raid type hours to suit. I don't mind a few hours for a chance but the way Caroline koh puts it, its going to be a long stretch..

    Well, sad thing you have to be such a power gamer with a constant urge to get the best gear that you can't - maby - try to enjoy the raids instead. This is not your cup of tea then I suspect.

    image
    $OE lies list
    http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
    "
    And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "

  • kraidenkraiden Staff WriterMember UncommonPosts: 638

    sorry to dissapoint, but from what I was told last week the "best" gear in the game will be from sacking the capital. so yes you have to pvp

    but remember daoc... YES you "COULD" raid to get gear but crafted items were just as good. 



    When I played DAoC the best sword was "foe slayer" and it was a flaming sword that gave stregnth and had 16.5dps and a 5.5 sec delay.  I raided for hours (13-20) just to get this one weapon... the weapon I upgraded from? a crafted Acranium great sword which was 16.5 dps 4.9 sec delay but NO flame... but since it was crafted, I could put any stat bonuses on it that I wanted.

     

    the reason to raid for the sword for so long was that it had a larger first hit. but it still did the SAME damage per sec as any sword that any person could get at level 50. so if I went hit for hit I would deal the same damage as anyone else. the procs in daoc (other than ToA items) were never as bad as other games, procs usually were for an extra 90 damage when normal melee damage hit for 400damage

    raiding was to twink your charachter... TWINK is not "a powerful charachter of lower level" twinking your toon is just that.... making minor changes to it. everyone had a chance to beat anyone else in the same class.

    soft caps are STILL caps. DAoC had soft caps, but what seperated 375 and 400 stregnth was about 5 points of damage per hit

    Hasani

  • Shifty360Shifty360 Member Posts: 629

    Originally posted by Battlekruse


    People who designed WAR did it based off of their feed back from .. Well.. WAR looks like wow with a few more rules and more of a PvP base. That's fine. I don't care as the as the game isn't gear based, or if it is, make it easy to get the gear so it's skill based. Tired of playing people with too much free time to gather gear and farm me.

    The devs get most of thier feedback from beta tests and beta player communication.

    Lore and concept/art is bounced off of Games Workshop. Also, DAoC is a very heavy influence.

  • Ramones274Ramones274 Member Posts: 366

    Gear should matter. How much it matters is the important thing. I could live with it being 40% Gear, 60% player Skill.

    There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.

  • WickershamWickersham Member UncommonPosts: 2,379

     

    Originally posted by kraiden


    sorry to dissapoint, but from what I was told last week the "best" gear in the game will be from sacking the capital. so yes you have to pvp
    but remember daoc... YES you "COULD" raid to get gear but crafted items were just as good. 



    When I played DAoC the best sword was "foe slayer" and it was a flaming sword that gave stregnth and had 16.5dps and a 5.5 sec delay.  I raided for hours (13-20) just to get this one weapon... the weapon I upgraded from? a crafted Acranium great sword which was 16.5 dps 4.9 sec delay but NO flame... but since it was crafted, I could put any stat bonuses on it that I wanted.

     
    the reason to raid for the sword for so long was that it had a larger first hit. but it still did the SAME damage per sec as any sword that any person could get at level 50. so if I went hit for hit I would deal the same damage as anyone else. the procs in daoc (other than ToA items) were never as bad as other games, procs usually were for an extra 90 damage when normal melee damage hit for 400damage
    raiding was to twink your charachter... TWINK is not "a powerful charachter of lower level" twinking your toon is just that.... making minor changes to it. everyone had a chance to beat anyone else in the same class.
    soft caps are STILL caps. DAoC had soft caps, but what seperated 375 and 400 stregnth was about 5 points of damage per hit
    Hasani

    These numbers are acceptable, as long as they stay low like this i don't have a problem.  As long as the proc chance of a weapon's additional attack are low I don't have a problem.

     

    All I want is to log in, find a skirmish, and have a blast playing a video game.  I don't want to feel like a filthy unwashed peasant because I don't have the best gear in the game.  I don't want to fall behind because i don't spend every waking hour playing the game.  I want all players to be able to be effective in a PvE or PvP fight because it is a multiplayer game and the more players you have that can be competitive the more activities we can all do and the more fun the game is.

    I know that WAR is not their first game and perhaps I am being a wee bit alarmist with my posts but can you blame me?  I cut my MMO teeth on Pre-CU SWG and saw how quickly a great game with lots of potencial can go so wrong.  I now play WoW (very casually) and see how cripling it can be to dangle the uber gear brass ring to players.  I want to have fun again and do things because they are fun not because i might get cake at the end.  The fun should be the cake.

    "The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  • kraidenkraiden Staff WriterMember UncommonPosts: 638

    From my opinion the game is 20% gear 40% tactics 30% class match ups 10% roll of the dice

  • Akolyte01Akolyte01 Member Posts: 1

    40% Of your stats coming from stats only means that you will have 40% better stats than a naked person. All of the end game gear could be within 5% stats wise of each other, although this is doubtful. Also, for all we know stats won't play a huge roll in the game.

     

  • GrumpyJesterGrumpyJester Member Posts: 96

     

    I'm disappointed with the "40% gear" thing. I strongly prefer things like "talent points" to matter most.

    If WAR will just copy WoW's gear model, I doubt I'll be playing long.

  • CaedesAstrumCaedesAstrum Member Posts: 83
    Originally posted by GrumpyJester


     
    I'm disappointed with the "40% gear" thing. I strongly prefer things like "talent points" to matter most.
    If WAR will just copy WoW's gear model, I doubt I'll be playing long.

    40% is nowhere near wows gear model, your getting 40% of you stats from gear by level 15 in wow

  • PheacePheace Member Posts: 2,408

    Originally posted by CaedesAstrum

    Originally posted by GrumpyJester


     
    I'm disappointed with the "40% gear" thing. I strongly prefer things like "talent points" to matter most.
    If WAR will just copy WoW's gear model, I doubt I'll be playing long.

    40% is nowhere near wows gear model, your getting 40% of you stats from gear by level 15 in wow



    So, as long as it's not = WoW it's a good thing?

     

    It's still a bad thing isn't it? Or is it just about not being WOW?

     

    image

  • trallatralla Member Posts: 290
    Originally posted by Sidoxs


    EVERY new MMORPG made by a company that has a name WILL be raid based and gear based. How many games will be made before people finally understand this. Let me ask you this..  Have there been any successful mmorpg (200K+ population) that have come out after World of Warcraft that have NOT been raid based?



    Guild Wars ? EvE ?

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