You know what will be the downfall of WOW most likely, it will be another game released by Blizzard. This may shock some people but a lot of people playing WOW don't ever know what War,Aoc,Aion are and don't really care. They are happy doing what they are doing and they wouldn't spend any time looking at forums like here, in fact a lot of them don't even look at WOW's own forums. I will be checking out some of these games like others from WOW will but they don't want to be as good as WOW they want to be better. If they are only on a par with WOW or similar to WOW in gameplay they will fail dismally.
I think the main reason why WoW succeeded was the excellent marketing, and the success of Warcraft 3 and its multyplayer map DOTA allstars.
All the new games that are coming out this year are poorly marketed and theres many people out there that do not know the mmo world beyond the World of Warcraft. WoW with 10 million players will not "fall" for a while, esspecially with Blizzard working on a new expansion, and a yet another big mmo (speculations are it will be either WoW2, World of Starcraft, or Diablo 4 mmo).
After beta testing AoC and Warhammer . I can honestly say Blizzard has nothing to worry about. Both games are not ready for release. Both games are mere pretenders and not true contenders. Warhammer is like taking a step back to the days of Asheron's Call. And thats being nice. AoC has as much ingame excitment as watching paint dry. The video's are all hype imho... Even if I would given free copies of them I wouldnt even open the boxes.......
After beta testing AoC and Warhammer . I can honestly say Blizzard has nothing to worry about. Both games are not ready for release. Both games are mere pretenders and not true contenders. Warhammer is like taking a step back to the days of Asheron's Call. And thats being nice. AoC has as much ingame excitment as watching paint dry. The video's are all hype imho... Even if I would given free copies of them I wouldnt even open the boxes.......
I really don't see why it is a hard concept that maybe, just maybe there actually might be a better game that comes along, and smacks WoW. Don't get me wrong as I said it is a well polished published game, however they have manage to make crafting almost meaningless, and the rest of the game so one directional with how to obtain needed gear to proceed it has uterly becomes bland. I miss the days where if you got bored you go to diffrent dungeons for the excitment, not "oh I can't do that dungeon yet because I'm undergeared". I know I am not the only player that feels this way about how this game has trivalized the end game experience, and for this reason alone I can see other games avoiding this mistake in new development.
If you read his post closely, youll see he's saying WoW will probably fall for a few smaller reasons. But I think its really, in his mind, one big reason.
Its because WoW released BC and now, after all his "hard work", he has to go out and redo dungeons to get the new uber gear. He's saying its wayyyyyy too much work, and how come he has to do it. He doesnt think this is fair, and thinks that because he's talked to a few of his guildmates, that its a general opinion among vets, that WoW is going to start going downhill. He claims its all "gear driven" which sounds like he didn't even bother to read any of the quests he was doing along the way. Just clicky clicky clicky.. gimme my Sword of Maiming, wow.. lookee my dps now! You don't mention WoW having storyline problems, questing problems, support problems, Community problems.. any of the things that make most people quit a mmo. Because they don't exist by and large. Other games,, good luck.
And Lotro? Once you hit 50, the game goes.. ZZZZZZZZZZ. You talk about having to raid MORE dungeons.. hell, LOTRO would wish they had more dungeons to raid like WoW. You got so many people so bored in there at max, that they are all sitting around twiddling thumbs, and going to pie-eating contests in Lotro while waiting for new content. The climb to max in LOTRO is a joke compared to WoWs, and thats saying something. The quests are good, but once you do a line, youre pretty much done. There are no alternative questing trees for endgame.. everyone does the same thing over and over. There are no dungeons to go in at level 20s, 30s, 40s, etc.. no variety. The best thing about Lotro is its reliable. Just like how a minivan is reliable. ZZZZZZZZZZ.
Sorry, news flash. WoW won't be going away for the main reason many have stated here, and elsewhere. Those other MMOs are cliquey and they will only EVER garner a small segment of any MMO population. No matter how "good" they are. WoW is genius because you don't have to pretend youre the Third Son of the Imperial Potentate from the Ascara Realm of Middle Earth.
You can just PLAY it.
Sorry friend, but youre either gonna have to:
A: Buy the expansion and go regear in the NEW areas like everyone else, and be happy with the new adventures or,
B: Quit and become a WoW hater eventually, because now youre not the king of the block anymore like so many other of the bitter ex-WoW posters.
I think your over generlizing my prespective. I am very much a lore buff if you read my orginal post you would have notice my comment on lore. The point isn't "having" to aquire new gear, but how it is formulated is the problem. Honestly how many of the said pre end dungeons get played anymore, or how many times do you have to do a specfic dungeon to step forward into the next dungeon area? This has gotten so repeative it is becoming old to hardcore raiders and casual players alike, but I don't expect any casual player just for the enjoyment of leveling to understand or comprehend. It is this mentality of WoW's current standing in the MMO market that players and devs that WoW must not make mistakes when it comes to design, however this goes unnoticed because of this preception of hoping that this game will uphold it's current postion.
Well, it depends on what you mean about people still playing pre-end dungeons.
If you are brand new to WoW, you dont know the difference between a "new" dungeon and an "old" dungeon. They are all just as hard, because you can't solo them. And youre new so its fun. So you meet people and group up, making new friends along the way. This is the essence of it. It has nothing to do with how long the dungeon was there. I see a lot of people with 2 and 3 70 characters going back to the "old" dungeons all the time because they are twinking. So they group with people who just started (and there are still a LOT of them, which kills the premise of your post) and it doesnt matter.
To these people its not so "repetitive" and won't be for some time. The new players dont know enough about WoW to be bored yet, and the older ones already know which dungeon they need to hit for specific twink gear, depending on class. They are actually glad that they know the ins/outs so they dont have to fumble around just to get the Knife of Backstabbery. I know some don't get played as much (Gnomeregan) but thats not because its "boring".. talk to anyone and they say.. "meh, it takes too long to do". Not "its too boring".
You can play through the Alliance line and when "bored", flip over to the Horde and get an entirely different experience, even with the same classes. This game has so much replayablity its not funny. Thats why they keep subs. Thats why people come back, along with the fact that so much junk is out there now.
AoC was pushed back, and I wouldnt be surprised if it happens again. Warhammer is not gonna kill too much of anything, except maybe the smaller, more older PvP mmos.. thats about it. Lotro has a niche clientele, CoH.. the same. The planned Marvel Mmo is now, dead. SWG been dying. There isnt anything on the horizon poised to slice this one up.
WoW is like McDonalds. McDonalds has the crappiest burgers around and everyone knows it. Burger King, Wendy's etc.. is a much better burger. But yet people still hit MickeyDs way more often. Why?
Brand name marketing. Get a cheap reliable product out with no real hassle and repeat. Last game that tried to let you "have it your way" almost went belly up (helloooo Vanguard!)
You are very intelligent Mistick, but I fear you are letting your personal dislikes of gear issue cloud your reason. No way a person as intelligent as you appear, can REALLY believe "The Fall of WoW?"
Its not the point whether they are "better" (which some of them may be), but its who's getting all the subscriptions.
Money talks, Bullshit walks. And a lot of these other MMOs are starting to shut down/merge servers, cut GMs, etc. A few aren't far from "walking" as it is. Even though they are "better".
WoW is INCREASING base, adding servers. They have to ask for volunteers to leave their servers to go to newly created ones because of popularity and overcrowding. Dont see any other MMOs, new or old, having this "problem".
"Better" is relative; Success in the US is measured in terms of dollars.
3. A really different and well made MMO...maybe Spore.
I'm not saying that Conan and War won't do well, I'm just not sure if they have what it takes. Maybe they do. Pirates of the Burning Sea was highly hyped and I'm hearing so so comments about it. I think a good MMO is the hardest thing to make in the gaming industry. Every year we have good FPS', and good single player RPG's and such, but really good MMO's are far and few.
I really don't see why it is a hard concept that maybe, just maybe there actually might be a better game that comes along, and smacks WoW. Don't get me wrong as I said it is a well polished published game, however they have manage to make crafting almost meaningless, and the rest of the game so one directional with how to obtain needed gear to proceed it has uterly becomes bland. I miss the days where if you got bored you go to diffrent dungeons for the excitment, not "oh I can't do that dungeon yet because I'm undergeared". I know I am not the only player that feels this way about how this game has trivalized the end game experience, and for this reason alone I can see other games avoiding this mistake in new development.
I don't see why its so hard to understand that from a purely numbers perspective nothing will topple WoW. I don't care if someone comes out with the best MMO ever made. in order for WoW to even care about the losses they would have to suffer over a 50% sub loss. So far as I know, only one major MMO has ever seen such a loss...and it required them to essentially wipe the game out and remake it AND tell the players that were pissed to shove off.
Another thing...after reading your post....it occurs to me that you are blaming WoW for your problems enjoying the game. I do not understand why you people cannot just say "Hey...I'm burned out. I've played the game too long, and I need a break from MMO's"
Everyone goes through it. Just accept it and move on.
"Now World of Warcraft was launched in 2004, and predicted to last ten years by Blizzard."
I stopped reading here. You do know that EQ is still up and running, right? Actually, some text-based MUDs are still up and running 20+ years later. WoW will last for well over a decade, and will probably remain top dog for over a decade. Even if it loses 90% of it's subs, it will still be top dog.
"Now World of Warcraft was launched in 2004, and predicted to last ten years by Blizzard."
I stopped reading here. You do know that EQ is still up and running, right? Actually, some text-based MUDs are still up and running 20+ years later. WoW will last for well over a decade, and will probably remain top dog for over a decade. Even if it loses 90% of it's subs, it will still be top dog.
Otherwise, nice long rant.
20+ years ago there was no internet:P
That is a pretty ignorant thing to say.
A little tech history lesson. Before the internet there were bbs' where people would use 300bps to 2400bps modems to login and chat and such. Before the internet also there were MUDS, people would connect to them the same way as BBS' and play games.
I love when posters on this forum advise WoW to "learn from it's mistakes".
Guess what, they aren't making any...which is why their population continues to grow, they continue to sell more boxes than any other MMO, and they're no where approaching their "fall".
I don't like the game, it's not for me, but outlining all the reasons WoW will fail because it's not appealing to you is both short sighted and self centered on a ridiculous level.
I disagree that WoW isn't making any mistakes. I think WoW is simply making the least mistakes. The general formula is far superior to any other MMO I've experienced and it is truly in a league of it's own. But it isn't perfect and it only gets away with its quite glarring flaws due to the serious lack of viable competition.
The OP highlighted many key issues with the WOW game model, issues which I feel affect a significant number of players, myself included. On release, WoW was miles ahead of other games in terms of the overall package but I think other companies have identified elements of WoW they could refine and enhance.
My feeling is WoW's playerbase will be eroded by a range of games all offering improved combinations of select elements of WoW. Technological considerations aside, games will be released which offer a significantly better PvP experience (perhaps WAR)... and there go a percentage of the WoW PvP crowd. Another game will offer a better storyline or control system (AoC maybe)... and there go the hands-on and RP guys.
I feel the hardcore gamers will be the first to leave, along with bored players who can go no further. Casual gamers will hang in there the longest but will eventually be lured away by a prettier game as technology advances.
By the end of 2008, I'm expecting (and hoping) WoW to look like a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' with a good chunk of the more demanding players lost to more focused games. I still think it'll be top dog for a while longer though, just based on rep and casuals who can't be bothered to leave.
It'll be interesting to see what Blizzard introduces to retain it's market share as other games are released, if anything. Assuming attack is the best form of defence and WoW is already and old weapon, perhaps they'll inevitably hit back with a completely new game when the time comes and simply maintain WoW.
If it was Diablo 3 I'd errupt with joy!
Finally, the hundreds of iterations of this discussion only exist because frustrated players have nowhere else to go. Writing this crap isn't something I relish, but it's either sleep, type or play WoW at this moment in time for me. If I had an alternative to WoW I wouldn't even be typing this.
Playing: Ableton Live 8 ~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
I would think Blizzard would want to do something different for their next MMO rather than another fantasy one which is why I think it will be either Starcraft or something totally different. I'm not saying Diablo would be a bad MMO but I don't think they'll do it for their next one.
The reason why WoW is never going to die is because of its the age of there fan base, which is younger teens who can't get $1,000 gaming rig to play any of the newer mmo's like age of conan and higher spec'd games. They use the PC their parents bought cause WoW system requirements are easily meet by today's standard desktop PCs. Thus, There will never be another MMO that will topple WoW cause no game can give u the experience and the replayability of a low spec'd game like WoW, only time will bring down WoW.
I really don't see why it is a hard concept that maybe, just maybe there actually might be a better game that comes along, and smacks WoW. Don't get me wrong as I said it is a well polished published game, however they have manage to make crafting almost meaningless, and the rest of the game so one directional with how to obtain needed gear to proceed it has uterly becomes bland. I miss the days where if you got bored you go to diffrent dungeons for the excitment, not "oh I can't do that dungeon yet because I'm undergeared". I know I am not the only player that feels this way about how this game has trivalized the end game experience, and for this reason alone I can see other games avoiding this mistake in new development.
I don't see why its so hard to understand that from a purely numbers perspective nothing will topple WoW. I don't care if someone comes out with the best MMO ever made. in order for WoW to even care about the losses they would have to suffer over a 50% sub loss. So far as I know, only one major MMO has ever seen such a loss...and it required them to essentially wipe the game out and remake it AND tell the players that were pissed to shove off.
Another thing...after reading your post....it occurs to me that you are blaming WoW for your problems enjoying the game. I do not understand why you people cannot just say "Hey...I'm burned out. I've played the game too long, and I need a break from MMO's"
Everyone goes through it. Just accept it and move on.
I'm not blaming WoW for anything per say, just pointing out the problems with the current system compared in which direction future games "will" avoid. I am a dedicated MMO player for many years, and have got to do many things that has given me better insight in the direction of the market. Sure I have done raids, but my point is this. If you could just pick which dungeon to do, then proceed to another without having to do a said dungeon 10 to 15 times before moving on would you?
The best anology I can give is something along this line. Imagin WoW pre BC with the .5 teir where you got to go to many diffrent dungeons for your entire set. You got to break up things a bit by traveling, and experiencing other dungeons instead of the same one 10 or more times. If they implamented a system like this on a larger scale raid system you would see a better response from the customer base.
I love when posters on this forum advise WoW to "learn from it's mistakes".
Guess what, they aren't making any...which is why their population continues to grow, they continue to sell more boxes than any other MMO, and they're no where approaching their "fall".
I don't like the game, it's not for me, but outlining all the reasons WoW will fail because it's not appealing to you is both short sighted and self centered on a ridiculous level.
I disagree that WoW isn't making any mistakes. I think WoW is simply making the least mistakes. The general formula is far superior to any other MMO I've experienced and it is truly in a league of it's own. But it isn't perfect and it only gets away with its quite glarring flaws due to the serious lack of viable competition.
The OP highlighted many key issues with the WOW game model, issues which I feel affect a significant number of players, myself included. On release, WoW was miles ahead of other games in terms of the overall package but I think other companies have identified elements of WoW they could refine and enhance.
My feeling is WoW's playerbase will be eroded by a range of games all offering improved combinations of select elements of WoW. Technological considerations aside, games will be released which offer a significantly better PvP experience (perhaps WAR)... and there go a percentage of the WoW PvP crowd. Another game will offer a better storyline or control system (AoC maybe)... and there go the hands-on and RP guys.
I feel the hardcore gamers will be the first to leave, along with bored players who can go no further. Casual gamers will hang in there the longest but will eventually be lured away by a prettier game as technology advances.
By the end of 2008, I'm expecting (and hoping) WoW to look like a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' with a good chunk of the more demanding players lost to more focused games. I still think it'll be top dog for a while longer though, just based on rep and casuals who can't be bothered to leave.
It'll be interesting to see what Blizzard introduces to retain it's market share as other games are released, if anything. Assuming attack is the best form of defence and WoW is already and old weapon, perhaps they'll inevitably hit back with a completely new game when the time comes and simply maintain WoW.
If it was Diablo 3 I'd errupt with joy!
Finally, the hundreds of iterations of this discussion only exist because frustrated players have nowhere else to go. Writing this crap isn't something I relish, but it's either sleep, type or play WoW at this moment in time for me. If I had an alternative to WoW I wouldn't even be typing this.
You have hit the hammer on the head, glad someone actually reads an entire post.
I read it all too, i guess my reply didn't agree with you so you assume otherwise. I do agree with you actually to some degree but to proclaim the fall of WOW is just stupid. Like has been said many times before old games like EQ and AC are still going.
WOW will still be around for a long time and the obligatory downfall of WOW posts that hit these boards regularly are just silly. I would put money on it that the thing that will most affect WOW's subscriber numbers will be another Blizzard game.
I actually hope that i am proved wrong but i doubt it!.
I read it all too, i guess my reply didn't agree with you so you assume otherwise. I do agree with you actually to some degree but to proclaim the fall of WOW is just stupid. Like has been said many times before old games like EQ and AC are still going. WOW will still be around for a long time and the obligatory downfall of WOW posts that hit these boards regularly are just silly. I would put money on it that the thing that will most affect WOW's subscriber numbers will be another Blizzard game. I actually hope that i am proved wrong but i doubt it!.
If you notice by the thread title it isn't a statment, but more a question. With the current system that WoW has based it's end game experience, isn't it possible that future games will avoid this "need" for gear, and by such take away from WoWs subcribtion rates? Mind you this is why I have said no one game will accomplish this, but many games will attract away from the WoW player base.
I dont want to see WoW fail, but i do hope blizzard learns from it, or any other gaming company and goes beyond, that is what i hope for. If something is to dethrone the king i want ti to be worthy of that title, not some clone set in a different mythos...or anything like that i want the next new and good game that does WoW and more..skills and sandbox ...but i am thinking those 2 things are minority, cuz most havent experienced how it used to be, and so they dont know what its like to be able to just do...whatever u want. oh well, i guess ppl like the boxes they can fit snuggly into.
There numbers will fall eventully as more and more new games hit the market but it wont die out for a long time imo. Im not a wow fan as I only play games with meaningfull pvp ( Daoc ) etc but it appeals to the larger % of mmo players. With the money they have made off of wow im sure they will produce a few more money making games there self in the neer future.
If you notice by the thread title it isn't a statment, but more a question. With the current system that WoW has based it's end game experience, isn't it possible that future games will avoid this "need" for gear, and by such take away from WoWs subcribtion rates? Mind you this is why I have said no one game will accomplish this, but many games will attract away from the WoW player base.
I counter with two thoughts.
First, the "need" for gear isn't really a fair way to explain the mentality gamers have in this genre. Gear in WoW is merely the "carrot" they chose. In the end what they WANT you to do is experience the continuation of the story through instances. Since most of us cannot be bothered to enjoy a game for story alone anymore...they must temper that with the glitter of gold. In the end, all games in this genre will simply offer another carrot to chase. As players mature, and grow, they will be able to see more clearly this similarity in all MMO's. Once this occurs...you will find that most will simply stick it out with their "core" MMO so as to keep in touch with the friends they have made. The lure of "new carrots" is weakened by the realization that they must now invest another year or more time to catch it.
Second, no one here is saying you think one game will do it. I, for one, am telling you that with current figures it would take over 100 blockbuster (not just run of the mill) titles to remove WoW's playerbase...and even then the game would have enough subs to survive.
I love when posters on this forum advise WoW to "learn from it's mistakes".
Guess what, they aren't making any...which is why their population continues to grow, they continue to sell more boxes than any other MMO, and they're no where approaching their "fall".
I don't like the game, it's not for me, but outlining all the reasons WoW will fail because it's not appealing to you is both short sighted and self centered on a ridiculous level.
I agree with you. But i still think blizzard failed to give out an actaul player involvement game that requires more player htough than it does certain items.
How could blizzard sell out gameplay for RL money?!?! (yes im being sarcastic)
But they have a new mmo int he works hopefully it'll be more of what blizzard is known for, ruthless, requiring player involvement and thought, and lots of gore =D
Comments
I think the main reason why WoW succeeded was the excellent marketing, and the success of Warcraft 3 and its multyplayer map DOTA allstars.
All the new games that are coming out this year are poorly marketed and theres many people out there that do not know the mmo world beyond the World of Warcraft. WoW with 10 million players will not "fall" for a while, esspecially with Blizzard working on a new expansion, and a yet another big mmo (speculations are it will be either WoW2, World of Starcraft, or Diablo 4 mmo).
After beta testing AoC and Warhammer . I can honestly say Blizzard has nothing to worry about. Both games are not ready for release. Both games are mere pretenders and not true contenders. Warhammer is like taking a step back to the days of Asheron's Call. And thats being nice. AoC has as much ingame excitment as watching paint dry. The video's are all hype imho... Even if I would given free copies of them I wouldnt even open the boxes.......
Now I know what they mean by "Woob".
I can just see the WoW Dev's reading your post and running wailing and crying to their $1.2 billion pile of cash.....
I really don't see why it is a hard concept that maybe, just maybe there actually might be a better game that comes along, and smacks WoW. Don't get me wrong as I said it is a well polished published game, however they have manage to make crafting almost meaningless, and the rest of the game so one directional with how to obtain needed gear to proceed it has uterly becomes bland. I miss the days where if you got bored you go to diffrent dungeons for the excitment, not "oh I can't do that dungeon yet because I'm undergeared". I know I am not the only player that feels this way about how this game has trivalized the end game experience, and for this reason alone I can see other games avoiding this mistake in new development.
You have to put the OP's comment in perspective.
If you read his post closely, youll see he's saying WoW will probably fall for a few smaller reasons. But I think its really, in his mind, one big reason.
Its because WoW released BC and now, after all his "hard work", he has to go out and redo dungeons to get the new uber gear. He's saying its wayyyyyy too much work, and how come he has to do it. He doesnt think this is fair, and thinks that because he's talked to a few of his guildmates, that its a general opinion among vets, that WoW is going to start going downhill. He claims its all "gear driven" which sounds like he didn't even bother to read any of the quests he was doing along the way. Just clicky clicky clicky.. gimme my Sword of Maiming, wow.. lookee my dps now! You don't mention WoW having storyline problems, questing problems, support problems, Community problems.. any of the things that make most people quit a mmo. Because they don't exist by and large. Other games,, good luck.
And Lotro? Once you hit 50, the game goes.. ZZZZZZZZZZ. You talk about having to raid MORE dungeons.. hell, LOTRO would wish they had more dungeons to raid like WoW. You got so many people so bored in there at max, that they are all sitting around twiddling thumbs, and going to pie-eating contests in Lotro while waiting for new content. The climb to max in LOTRO is a joke compared to WoWs, and thats saying something. The quests are good, but once you do a line, youre pretty much done. There are no alternative questing trees for endgame.. everyone does the same thing over and over. There are no dungeons to go in at level 20s, 30s, 40s, etc.. no variety. The best thing about Lotro is its reliable. Just like how a minivan is reliable. ZZZZZZZZZZ.
Sorry, news flash. WoW won't be going away for the main reason many have stated here, and elsewhere. Those other MMOs are cliquey and they will only EVER garner a small segment of any MMO population. No matter how "good" they are. WoW is genius because you don't have to pretend youre the Third Son of the Imperial Potentate from the Ascara Realm of Middle Earth.
You can just PLAY it.
Sorry friend, but youre either gonna have to:
A: Buy the expansion and go regear in the NEW areas like everyone else, and be happy with the new adventures or,
B: Quit and become a WoW hater eventually, because now youre not the king of the block anymore like so many other of the bitter ex-WoW posters.
There is no middleground. Resistance is futile.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I think your over generlizing my prespective. I am very much a lore buff if you read my orginal post you would have notice my comment on lore. The point isn't "having" to aquire new gear, but how it is formulated is the problem. Honestly how many of the said pre end dungeons get played anymore, or how many times do you have to do a specfic dungeon to step forward into the next dungeon area? This has gotten so repeative it is becoming old to hardcore raiders and casual players alike, but I don't expect any casual player just for the enjoyment of leveling to understand or comprehend. It is this mentality of WoW's current standing in the MMO market that players and devs that WoW must not make mistakes when it comes to design, however this goes unnoticed because of this preception of hoping that this game will uphold it's current postion.
Well, it depends on what you mean about people still playing pre-end dungeons.
If you are brand new to WoW, you dont know the difference between a "new" dungeon and an "old" dungeon. They are all just as hard, because you can't solo them. And youre new so its fun. So you meet people and group up, making new friends along the way. This is the essence of it. It has nothing to do with how long the dungeon was there. I see a lot of people with 2 and 3 70 characters going back to the "old" dungeons all the time because they are twinking. So they group with people who just started (and there are still a LOT of them, which kills the premise of your post) and it doesnt matter.
To these people its not so "repetitive" and won't be for some time. The new players dont know enough about WoW to be bored yet, and the older ones already know which dungeon they need to hit for specific twink gear, depending on class. They are actually glad that they know the ins/outs so they dont have to fumble around just to get the Knife of Backstabbery. I know some don't get played as much (Gnomeregan) but thats not because its "boring".. talk to anyone and they say.. "meh, it takes too long to do". Not "its too boring".
You can play through the Alliance line and when "bored", flip over to the Horde and get an entirely different experience, even with the same classes. This game has so much replayablity its not funny. Thats why they keep subs. Thats why people come back, along with the fact that so much junk is out there now.
AoC was pushed back, and I wouldnt be surprised if it happens again. Warhammer is not gonna kill too much of anything, except maybe the smaller, more older PvP mmos.. thats about it. Lotro has a niche clientele, CoH.. the same. The planned Marvel Mmo is now, dead. SWG been dying. There isnt anything on the horizon poised to slice this one up.
WoW is like McDonalds. McDonalds has the crappiest burgers around and everyone knows it. Burger King, Wendy's etc.. is a much better burger. But yet people still hit MickeyDs way more often. Why?
Brand name marketing. Get a cheap reliable product out with no real hassle and repeat. Last game that tried to let you "have it your way" almost went belly up (helloooo Vanguard!)
You are very intelligent Mistick, but I fear you are letting your personal dislikes of gear issue cloud your reason. No way a person as intelligent as you appear, can REALLY believe "The Fall of WoW?"
"TO MICHAEL!"
There are already better games than WoW, almost every game...
I'm the dangerous dane! Yarrrr!!!
Its not the point whether they are "better" (which some of them may be), but its who's getting all the subscriptions.
Money talks, Bullshit walks. And a lot of these other MMOs are starting to shut down/merge servers, cut GMs, etc. A few aren't far from "walking" as it is. Even though they are "better".
WoW is INCREASING base, adding servers. They have to ask for volunteers to leave their servers to go to newly created ones because of popularity and overcrowding. Dont see any other MMOs, new or old, having this "problem".
"Better" is relative; Success in the US is measured in terms of dollars.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The only games I see that will make a dent in WOW
1. Stargate Worlds...if its done well
2. Another blizzard MMO like World of Starcraft.
3. A really different and well made MMO...maybe Spore.
I'm not saying that Conan and War won't do well, I'm just not sure if they have what it takes. Maybe they do. Pirates of the Burning Sea was highly hyped and I'm hearing so so comments about it. I think a good MMO is the hardest thing to make in the gaming industry. Every year we have good FPS', and good single player RPG's and such, but really good MMO's are far and few.
I don't see why its so hard to understand that from a purely numbers perspective nothing will topple WoW. I don't care if someone comes out with the best MMO ever made. in order for WoW to even care about the losses they would have to suffer over a 50% sub loss. So far as I know, only one major MMO has ever seen such a loss...and it required them to essentially wipe the game out and remake it AND tell the players that were pissed to shove off.
Another thing...after reading your post....it occurs to me that you are blaming WoW for your problems enjoying the game. I do not understand why you people cannot just say "Hey...I'm burned out. I've played the game too long, and I need a break from MMO's"
Everyone goes through it. Just accept it and move on.
20+ years ago there was no internet:P
That is a pretty ignorant thing to say.
20+ years ago there was no internet:P
A little tech history lesson. Before the internet there were bbs' where people would use 300bps to 2400bps modems to login and chat and such. Before the internet also there were MUDS, people would connect to them the same way as BBS' and play games.That is a pretty ignorant thing to say.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD
Here is more background on muds, they started out in 1977 probably before you were born.
I disagree that WoW isn't making any mistakes. I think WoW is simply making the least mistakes. The general formula is far superior to any other MMO I've experienced and it is truly in a league of it's own. But it isn't perfect and it only gets away with its quite glarring flaws due to the serious lack of viable competition.
The OP highlighted many key issues with the WOW game model, issues which I feel affect a significant number of players, myself included. On release, WoW was miles ahead of other games in terms of the overall package but I think other companies have identified elements of WoW they could refine and enhance.
My feeling is WoW's playerbase will be eroded by a range of games all offering improved combinations of select elements of WoW. Technological considerations aside, games will be released which offer a significantly better PvP experience (perhaps WAR)... and there go a percentage of the WoW PvP crowd. Another game will offer a better storyline or control system (AoC maybe)... and there go the hands-on and RP guys.
I feel the hardcore gamers will be the first to leave, along with bored players who can go no further. Casual gamers will hang in there the longest but will eventually be lured away by a prettier game as technology advances.
By the end of 2008, I'm expecting (and hoping) WoW to look like a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' with a good chunk of the more demanding players lost to more focused games. I still think it'll be top dog for a while longer though, just based on rep and casuals who can't be bothered to leave.
It'll be interesting to see what Blizzard introduces to retain it's market share as other games are released, if anything. Assuming attack is the best form of defence and WoW is already and old weapon, perhaps they'll inevitably hit back with a completely new game when the time comes and simply maintain WoW.
If it was Diablo 3 I'd errupt with joy!
Finally, the hundreds of iterations of this discussion only exist because frustrated players have nowhere else to go. Writing this crap isn't something I relish, but it's either sleep, type or play WoW at this moment in time for me. If I had an alternative to WoW I wouldn't even be typing this.
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
I would think Blizzard would want to do something different for their next MMO rather than another fantasy one which is why I think it will be either Starcraft or something totally different. I'm not saying Diablo would be a bad MMO but I don't think they'll do it for their next one.
The reason why WoW is never going to die is because of its the age of there fan base, which is younger teens who can't get $1,000 gaming rig to play any of the newer mmo's like age of conan and higher spec'd games. They use the PC their parents bought cause WoW system requirements are easily meet by today's standard desktop PCs. Thus, There will never be another MMO that will topple WoW cause no game can give u the experience and the replayability of a low spec'd game like WoW, only time will bring down WoW.
I don't see why its so hard to understand that from a purely numbers perspective nothing will topple WoW. I don't care if someone comes out with the best MMO ever made. in order for WoW to even care about the losses they would have to suffer over a 50% sub loss. So far as I know, only one major MMO has ever seen such a loss...and it required them to essentially wipe the game out and remake it AND tell the players that were pissed to shove off.
Another thing...after reading your post....it occurs to me that you are blaming WoW for your problems enjoying the game. I do not understand why you people cannot just say "Hey...I'm burned out. I've played the game too long, and I need a break from MMO's"
Everyone goes through it. Just accept it and move on.
I'm not blaming WoW for anything per say, just pointing out the problems with the current system compared in which direction future games "will" avoid. I am a dedicated MMO player for many years, and have got to do many things that has given me better insight in the direction of the market. Sure I have done raids, but my point is this. If you could just pick which dungeon to do, then proceed to another without having to do a said dungeon 10 to 15 times before moving on would you?
The best anology I can give is something along this line. Imagin WoW pre BC with the .5 teir where you got to go to many diffrent dungeons for your entire set. You got to break up things a bit by traveling, and experiencing other dungeons instead of the same one 10 or more times. If they implamented a system like this on a larger scale raid system you would see a better response from the customer base.
I disagree that WoW isn't making any mistakes. I think WoW is simply making the least mistakes. The general formula is far superior to any other MMO I've experienced and it is truly in a league of it's own. But it isn't perfect and it only gets away with its quite glarring flaws due to the serious lack of viable competition.
The OP highlighted many key issues with the WOW game model, issues which I feel affect a significant number of players, myself included. On release, WoW was miles ahead of other games in terms of the overall package but I think other companies have identified elements of WoW they could refine and enhance.
My feeling is WoW's playerbase will be eroded by a range of games all offering improved combinations of select elements of WoW. Technological considerations aside, games will be released which offer a significantly better PvP experience (perhaps WAR)... and there go a percentage of the WoW PvP crowd. Another game will offer a better storyline or control system (AoC maybe)... and there go the hands-on and RP guys.
I feel the hardcore gamers will be the first to leave, along with bored players who can go no further. Casual gamers will hang in there the longest but will eventually be lured away by a prettier game as technology advances.
By the end of 2008, I'm expecting (and hoping) WoW to look like a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' with a good chunk of the more demanding players lost to more focused games. I still think it'll be top dog for a while longer though, just based on rep and casuals who can't be bothered to leave.
It'll be interesting to see what Blizzard introduces to retain it's market share as other games are released, if anything. Assuming attack is the best form of defence and WoW is already and old weapon, perhaps they'll inevitably hit back with a completely new game when the time comes and simply maintain WoW.
If it was Diablo 3 I'd errupt with joy!
Finally, the hundreds of iterations of this discussion only exist because frustrated players have nowhere else to go. Writing this crap isn't something I relish, but it's either sleep, type or play WoW at this moment in time for me. If I had an alternative to WoW I wouldn't even be typing this.
You have hit the hammer on the head, glad someone actually reads an entire post.
I read it all too, i guess my reply didn't agree with you so you assume otherwise. I do agree with you actually to some degree but to proclaim the fall of WOW is just stupid. Like has been said many times before old games like EQ and AC are still going.
WOW will still be around for a long time and the obligatory downfall of WOW posts that hit these boards regularly are just silly. I would put money on it that the thing that will most affect WOW's subscriber numbers will be another Blizzard game.
I actually hope that i am proved wrong but i doubt it!.
If you notice by the thread title it isn't a statment, but more a question. With the current system that WoW has based it's end game experience, isn't it possible that future games will avoid this "need" for gear, and by such take away from WoWs subcribtion rates? Mind you this is why I have said no one game will accomplish this, but many games will attract away from the WoW player base.
I dont want to see WoW fail, but i do hope blizzard learns from it, or any other gaming company and goes beyond, that is what i hope for. If something is to dethrone the king i want ti to be worthy of that title, not some clone set in a different mythos...or anything like that i want the next new and good game that does WoW and more..skills and sandbox ...but i am thinking those 2 things are minority, cuz most havent experienced how it used to be, and so they dont know what its like to be able to just do...whatever u want. oh well, i guess ppl like the boxes they can fit snuggly into.
There numbers will fall eventully as more and more new games hit the market but it wont die out for a long time imo. Im not a wow fan as I only play games with meaningfull pvp ( Daoc ) etc but it appeals to the larger % of mmo players. With the money they have made off of wow im sure they will produce a few more money making games there self in the neer future.
I counter with two thoughts.
First, the "need" for gear isn't really a fair way to explain the mentality gamers have in this genre. Gear in WoW is merely the "carrot" they chose. In the end what they WANT you to do is experience the continuation of the story through instances. Since most of us cannot be bothered to enjoy a game for story alone anymore...they must temper that with the glitter of gold. In the end, all games in this genre will simply offer another carrot to chase. As players mature, and grow, they will be able to see more clearly this similarity in all MMO's. Once this occurs...you will find that most will simply stick it out with their "core" MMO so as to keep in touch with the friends they have made. The lure of "new carrots" is weakened by the realization that they must now invest another year or more time to catch it.
Second, no one here is saying you think one game will do it. I, for one, am telling you that with current figures it would take over 100 blockbuster (not just run of the mill) titles to remove WoW's playerbase...and even then the game would have enough subs to survive.
I agree with you. But i still think blizzard failed to give out an actaul player involvement game that requires more player htough than it does certain items.
How could blizzard sell out gameplay for RL money?!?! (yes im being sarcastic)
But they have a new mmo int he works hopefully it'll be more of what blizzard is known for, ruthless, requiring player involvement and thought, and lots of gore =D