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pure pvp game- why hasn't it been done yet and why hasn't anyone used their noodle to make pvp more
Kriminal99
Member Posts: 377
I'm kind of curious as to why there hasn't been any pure PVP MMORPGS? For that matter has there even been any PVP games where both sides in a pvp match have a favorable risk/reward ratio?
By this I mean it seems like every PVP game I have played so far depends heavily on both sides overestimating their chances of winning a match to motivate them to fight. That is to say people only pvp when they believe there is a really good chance they will win. But this means that pvp gets boring fast once people begin to believe they aren't already better than everyone they might fight.
Besides the possibility of a statistical handicapping system, why can't a game just be made where the winner of a pvp match was supplemented in terms of exp, loot, and cash beyond that which the loser has lost with no regard for each players skill. In such a case a person who even believes he will likely loose might still fight because if he does happen to win it will gain him enough to be worth the times he lost. The only difference from a handicap system is that the superior player will be just as eager to fight the less skilled player. In either of these two cases pvp in the game would thrive, the handicap system would be better but its really not even needed to make pvp half decent at least.
Every game to date seems either obsessed with discouraging pvp for any other purpose than novelty by making people lose far more than they gain, are supposed to encourage pvp but have really bad unthought out systems that do pretty much the same thing, or at very best have a system where you aren't likely to get anywhere from pvp unless you are the absolute best.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------PROBABILITY(YOUR STATEMENTS BEING MOTIVATED BY FEAR(I>U)) > .5
Comments
In dark and Light you can get XP for killing people, not suree the exact details of it though..
Where alot of games mess up is with the risk vs. reward, ie. Lineage 2.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
I agree, but if someone has nothing to lose and alot to gain, then pvp would be too easy in a sense that there is no risk.
fire ze missilez!1111
fire ze missilez!1111
I hate PvP, if I wanted to go kill other players I would play a FPS.
Laying in bed, looking up at the stars, a single thought passed through my head. Where the fuck is my roof?
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honestly a pure PvP game would suck unless your into first person shooters. IF that's the case then go try Planetside. Lineage/Lineage 2 are MOSTLY PvP and it sux.
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UO - 4 years
AC - 2 years
AC2 - 6 months
DAoC - 1 month
FFXI - 7 months
Diablo2 - 9 months
Shadowbane - Beta tested
Lineage2 - Beta tested
mmoRPG'er since October 1997
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UO - 4 years
AC - 2 years
AC2 - 6 months
DAoC - 1 month
FFXI - 7 months
Diablo2 - 9 months
Shadowbane - Beta Tested
Lineage2 - Beta Tested
Saga of Ryzom - Beta Tested
Risk Your Life - Beta Tested
World of Warcraft - Currently Playing
mmoRPG'er since October 1997
I hate forking PVP games.
I'm a TEAM player... period.
Played some Diablo 2 and some a$$hole that is OVER 20 levels higher than everyone in a game comes into a game CLEARLY marked "NO PVP". Then has the gall to say that it's a 7 on 1 pk game... That's pure bull$hit!
IF I want to play PVP I'll join games that ONLY have it in ARENAS where the a$$es that like to pick on people can do that all day long.
MOST PVP players that I've seen in games have to build their egos my demeaning others.
I, for one. don't have time for that $hit!
*anticipating WoW*
*anticipating WoW*
Good points Kriminal99. As you and others have mentioned one aspect is the reward vs. loss ratio but another is the risk, the uncertainty involved in attacking another player who has no level range color (conning) above his head. In most games you work your way up to a MOB con level you are comfortable with after starting out on one of the lower con levels for your character. So skill based PvP games like Darkfall would have more of this uncertainty while level based PvP games like Dark and Light would have less of this uncertainty (the 10 competitive kingdoms are generally seperated by level ranges). In Dark and Light the PvP fights seem to be almost identical to player vs MOB fights with experience, money, and perhaps natural resource gain (no finished items are dropped unless on a special quest). The death penalty for each is loss of money and some experience but no finished items (either worn or stored) are dropped.
For you anti-PvPers I am sorry you had some bad experiences in other games that were poorly designed for it. But if you ever want a competitive game in order to get away from mindless grinding check out Dark and Light when it goes open beta. With only two sides with variable but defined territories the PvP will not be "in your face" unless you want it to be.
The best PvP fantasy MMORPG experience out there is DAoC's Mordred (the PvP server)
The biggest problem with DAoC is realm imbalance, and the open PvP of Mordred solves that problem completely, since there are no realm restrictions.Other than that, killing players gives you experience points and you're safe from attacks below level 10.Between 10-40 you need to think about where you're going to level, as not to get ganked by players 30 levels higher than you.. but playing in cognito is what makes it so much fun
Oh and about D2 - there are 7 of you, 1 of him.20 levels higher is nothing.. You sound like a carebear so i recon this wasn't Hardcore modus, why not stick together and clobber the guy?
Most of you guys dont understand what PvP is. PvP is when you are not just atack someone and die or win it's also when you retreat eat something to heal or use some potions nad atack back again, combination of skills, one combination can easily kill priest but another won't even hit him.
For example, If you have good food or potions and your opponent has just high statistics you can win him/her.
And PvP should be free for all what I mean is no level restrictions.
I think most of you think that PvP is when you atack someone and die or win.
∙name: EViLD0G
∙clan: [EXE]
∙playing: EQ, SIMS, AC, AC2, DAoC, FFXI, AW, RS
∙planning: WoW, GW
Star Wars GAlaxies has turned me against pvp. Most of the "1337 pvp'ers" are gankers, who get off on attacking a weaker player and then sending them messages like "take that n00b". There's an attitude problem that comes along with "most" hardcore pvp'ers in that game.
When I want pvp, I play BF1942/Vietnam.
DAOC Frontiers
Planetside
Darkfall
Dark and Light
I revel in the day there is a game that is pure pvp or more pvp orientated.
Unfortunately too many players live pve. I mean no offence where is the buzz out of killing mobs over and over and over. AI tends to be crap. I personally like the thrill of man vs man and see who has the skills, wits and the intelligence to beat the opponent.
I have played many games and most of them after you have reached ur desired lvl all there is pvp from stopping you being bored sh*tless i.e DAoC, AC etc.
Anyway just my 2ps worth
Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another
∙name: EViLD0G
∙clan: [EXE]
∙playing: EQ, SIMS, AC, AC2, DAoC, FFXI, AW, RS
∙planning: WoW, GW
∙name: EViLD0G
∙clan: [EXE]
∙playing: EQ, SIMS, AC, AC2, DAoC, FFXI, AW, RS
∙planning: WoW, GW
Its obvious that you never played Diablo 2, If you dont know about a game you should not say a thing..There were plenty of people that could have taken on 7 others at once even in Closed Bnet.... Also to the guy complaining about D2 it was a hack fest in that game, that was the nature of it sad to say..Blame that on the Developers (BLIZZARD) for making such a poorly coded game that almost any hacker could crack and manipulate..
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Watch my middle finger. It's begging for your attention.
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Waitin on a new MMORPG with hardcore PvP.
"The angels in my dreams... have turned to demons of greed that's mean.."- Soul to Squeeze
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You in?
Yea.. I'm in
Suprised no-one has mentioned EVE here, been playing it for 8 months or so and PvP is something that will come out of your ears if you want it. The community there consider it to be a PvP game and I for one agree.
Just my 2 and a half on this.
omg what a jackass...... i could go on and on about this guy lol..... but to the question at hand. there are only a few good pvp games out AC,PS and UO (i'm leaning more to the old skool uo) this is what i think at least. to make pvp fun and ever lasting it should require SKILLZ not just click and bang! i also think that a pure pvp game would kinda suck there should be as much content as there can be in a good mmorpg....something like UO it had everything houses , pve,pvp (that required skillz)and a great community and so much more! it's very outdated but this is the kind of game i would like to see modified. anyways back to the question pure pvp game? yeah there is one GW looks ok but i'll have to try it out.....it's free and that mean it must suck =/ i really dont think a pure pvp mmorpg would work out ppl like pve and pvp then need to have both. thats whats i thinks
Blah blah blah......
Blah blah blah......
WWiionline is a pure PvP .... reconed by mmorpg developers as the most succesfull as such.
http://www.wwiionline.com
yes pvp is fun but you have to chalange the other person.
otherwise you get spawncampers
Why hasn't a pure PVP game been made yet?
The answer is quite simple.
With the cancellations of other MMORPG's, and the increased volume of MMORPG's on the market, its obvious competition is fierce for getting those subscriptions. Any game that was completely PVP based would not appeal the "carebears" or the players that are more into cooperation and PvM. Thus, they would not make nearly as much money, as hardcore PVP's are the minority.
Killer 73%
Explorer 60%
Achiever 46%
Socializer 20%
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Killer 73%
Explorer 60%
Achiever 46%
Socializer 20%
I enjoy PVP a lot, but there is an inherent problem with PVP in MMO's that prevents it from being totally successful.
Most PVPers will agree that there has to be some consequences for death, to make PVP enjoyable. Those consequences include, penalties for the ones who die (XP loss, Item loss/looting or some other form of meaningful loss), thereby making it so death has a price and give PVP more meaning than senseless killing. Death should also offer some sort of reward to the victor (Factional increases, XP, the ability to loot, etc...) thereby making combat interesting and worthwhile.
Now this sounds all well and good, but when implemented, all sorts of problems arise. This is based on two things that I know to be true. First, the majority of PVPers talk about their integrity and desire to only fight in challenging PVP combat, against near or equal odds. More than half of them are lying out of their ass. PVPers as a whole enjoy besting someone (and not crappy AI) and the challenge is just secondary in terms of that enjoyment. And a large group of them don't care who they beat as long as they beat someone (challenging or otherwise). They might get more of a thrill when they beat someone who gives them a run for their money, but will spend as much, or more of their time, one hitting noobs any chance they get. Not all PVPers are this way, but a large portion of them are.
The second thing is that regardless of the penalty/reward system in place, in a PVP game, inevitably there are those that come along only to make the game miserable for as many other people as they possibly can. "Griefers/Gankers" or whatever else you want to call them, are the bane of success for any PVP game, solely because new users are what keep games alive. And unless you joined within the first 3-6 months of the start of a game, you are too weak to compete with the high-level griefers to the point that they eventually drive most new people away from the game.
Examples: UO: The mother of all that is unholy with PVP. Anyone who argues that UO is the way PVP should be, either never was low enough to be really griefed or was nothing but a griefer. In one instance with a new character, a guy literally griefed me countless time over the period of a week or two. Even to the point of me hearing him ask people in a town I was in if anyone had seen me or not.
SWG: PvP was the least of their problems, but the factional war, with overt and covert, brought us nice new crappy features like the revenge kills, group flags and my personal favorite the shuttle spawn kills. So much has changed that it literally is a totally different game now, then it was at release, in some ways better, in others worse.
EQ/DAOC (PVP by server): The PvP server for a PVE game is a valiant attempt at doing PVP right. The only people there are the people who want PVP and enjoy it. But is still remains a PVE designed game, quickly coded to be made PVP. There have been some successes there, but not quite perfect for PVP.
SB: I loved this game but it had its flaws. If you argue that this game is it when it comes to PVP, then that should tell you that PVP can't be successful. Disagree? Then why did they drop from 9 servers to just 3 a few months after an expansion? Sorry but they are going out of business very soon, if an expansion can't even keep their subscribers around for a little longer.
Lin 2: The bastard child of UO, still gave griefers too much ammunition. Although I quite enjoyed watching 15 or so noobs dogpile a 20th level or so PKer. Like watching fire ants attack something.
PVP might be the future but for it to be successful, they need to put stricter rules into play. If someone attacks someone that is too easy a target, they should be penalized not just allowed to do so and definately not rewarded in any way. And the person that is griefed should recieve no penalty or a portion of the penalty exacted from the person that attacked them (There is no reason for a 40+ to slaughter a level 10 whatsoever). Also group levels could also be implemented, so a group of 8 lvl 10's that attack a 40+ could be killed without penalty. And that is just one of many examples that need to be addressed.
Regardless of the situation, without strict rules that promote PVP, while protecting the player base, from undesireable conduct, you cannot keep an influx of members to help the game expand. and grow. And that is what is killing PVP right now.