Official forums tied to an account are a must. If they don't give us that, we will have to live with it but it's a shortage and speaks poorly of Mythic.
Forums are hardly needed on any level. DAoC, as has been said numerous times, has done fine with no official forums, as has FFXI, No UO Forums either to my knowledge. Considering FFXi has a constant 500k+ playerbase, not having forums must not speak that poorly of them.
SoE forums and Blizz forums both fail to give anything to the customer any faster then the FFXI devs posting on Alla or KillingIfrit, and usually those sites have informationon EQ1/2 or WoW, leaked or otherwise, faster then the official forums will acknowledge, generally days if not weeks in advance.
Forums are not a needed thing, since the internet has tons of fansites, and as Mythic has already showed in WARs development, they tend to communicate just fine on the more popular and mainstream sites(which will more then likely include such big names like Allakhazam after release).
My opinion (as I thought this thread could use just one or two more) is that official forums are needed as a pseudo check and balance. Yes, I completely agree that forums official or non are dramafests with conspiracies, e-feelings and complete oversue of the words noob, fanboi and . It goes both ways. But as I too have played quite a few mmo's in my time on this mudball and in my experience, official forums are a necessary evil. 1. They allow for a single meeting point to gather information or to find other communities on the same subject. Every single mmo I have ever played on that had multiple servers had a forum that related to information specific to that server. It was a place to learn about each other when not in game or to read about events (nonguild related) while afk. Was it necessary to enjoy the game? Nope. But it enhanced the experience and the feeling of belonging to a community. This can be done unoffcially as well but then - who is considere the true source of this knowledge? Who do you turn to? Even at best, this will still divide the knowledge and information to multiple locations thus losing its effectiveness to to lost percentages of viewers or the lost time that it takes to gather all of the pieces of it together to get the true picture.
2. Official forums hold the company accountable. Here is why - when people post in mass about issues on official boards - they are more likely to be addressed. It become a pimple on their public face. True you could use the email addresses or the phone lines but that allows the battle to be minimalized into an individual cause. One on one - the communities needs will be minimalized. Which is more effective - a glaring 20 page thread about an issue or Bob, the tech support guy telling his boss - "Yeah I had a few calls about this one issue." And more importantly - it provides an out for a company. Since the forums are unofficial and numerous - the devs and staff are not responsible for anything posted there and are under no obligation to read them. "Got issues? How are we supposed to know? We do not actively read this forum..."
Now as time constricts me from writing much more - I understand those of you who have played under these conditions before - have no issue with the lack of an official forum. You are commited to the game and in all - your opinions and likes and dislikes are yours and thus nothing allows me to criticize you for them. I would be the equivalent of me arguing with you about your favorite food. However, as someone who is actively seeking an mmo that I can commit myself to and someone who has seen the gambit and been burned a few times - the reasons given behind not housing an official forums have me concerned enough to even post in this thread. The game looks interesting enough and I hope it does give WoW a run for its money. Competition makes things better for all of us but I digress you aren't reading this to hear me talk about that. In summary, official forums are a necessary evil for consolidated and timely information. Yes google is quick but try looking for antarian rangers sometime on the web. You may lose about 1/2 an houror more weeding through the deadwood and spam sites to get the details that you are looking for. Will the game function without one? Yepper. Will the hardcore fans still play it? You bet! But when going for WoW like numbers - a company must be willing to accomodate a little bit of everything for everyone. But isolating certain types of players - there is one more obstacle in your path to try and take the king down.
That sums it up.
It would not stop me from trying the game but for those trying to downplay it as if it is not a big deal they need to reconsider. For this game to move beyond being a niche game it has to go that extra mile.
No official forum = not going that extra mile.
The year is 2008 and DAOC is considered an OLD game. The internet has grown significantly since then so lets put that arguement to rest.
The fact that there are games that do NOT require a monthly subscription but still have have official forums speaks volumes about the importance of them.
Yeh... with Kefkah's post, could could we now let this thread die?
We've heard about every individual opinion on the matter, it's been discussed by others and I think about everyone knows the no forum decision by now. If there's anything left to say I'm surprised
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Actually I have something to say and it has most likely been said in some way already. I would love to see an official forum. Yes they would have to deal with some idiots, a few posts in this one thread are good examples, but the way to deal with them is pretty simple. I favor the Zero Tolerance approach. You get abusive to a CSR, Mod, or anyone else that works to maintain the game and forum you get smacked with the ban stick. Quick, simple, and permanent.
Official forums would have been a nice place for would-be future subscriber to find out the game was delayed instead of having to find out on a third party fan site.
Official forums would have been a nice place for would-be future subscriber to find out the game was delayed instead of having to find out on a third party fan site.
Info is up on warhammeronline.com :P
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Official forums tied to an account are a must. If they don't give us that, we will have to live with it but it's a shortage and speaks poorly of Mythic.
Forums are hardly needed on any level. DAoC, as has been said numerous times, has done fine with no official forums, as has FFXI, No UO Forums either to my knowledge. Considering FFXi has a constant 500k+ playerbase, not having forums must not speak that poorly of them.
SoE forums and Blizz forums both fail to give anything to the customer any faster then the FFXI devs posting on Alla or KillingIfrit, and usually those sites have informationon EQ1/2 or WoW, leaked or otherwise, faster then the official forums will acknowledge, generally days if not weeks in advance.
Forums are not a needed thing, since the internet has tons of fansites, and as Mythic has already showed in WARs development, they tend to communicate just fine on the more popular and mainstream sites(which will more then likely include such big names like Allakhazam after release).
Yes they are needed. If only to give your project a solid feeling and to show your compromise towards the people that play your game.
A simple cost vs benefit analysis will show that the cost to maintain an official forum strongly outweighs the benefit.
It is not an issue of the customer being ignored, because they wont be. There are other avenues for player feedback and yes fan sites will also be used. I'm sure the fan sites love this decision too as it will give them a community.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If you can't wrap your mind around why a company might be opposed to maintaining an official forum, then I hope you choose to play another game.
A simple cost vs benefit analysis will show that the cost to maintain an official forum strongly outweighs the benefit.
It is not an issue of the customer being ignored, because they wont be. There are other avenues for player feedback and yes fan sites will also be used. I'm sure the fan sites love this decision too as it will give them a community.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If you can't wrap your mind around why a company might be opposed to maintaining an official forum, then I hope you choose to play another game.
The cost to maintain an official forum outweighs the benefit? Explain to me then why non subscription games feel that the benefits of having an official forum outweighs the costs?
Subscription based games have to go that extra mile IMVHO or else we as customers lose in the end.
The cost to maintain an official forum outweighs the benefit? Explain to me then why non subscription games feel that the benefits of having an official forum outweighs the costs?
Subscription based games have to go that extra mile IMVHO or else we as customers lose in the end.
The customers lose in the end? I think you're being a bit over the top.
There is no real benefit to the company to host a forum. Anything the forum can provide (feedback) can be obtained through other channels or fan site forums. The cost is having to maintain as well as moderate said forum. As they have a responsibility to now make sure content they are hosting does not break things such as laws or go against what they would like to represent as a company (lets say hate here).
As a customer, I am sure one or two fansites will be able to accomodate whatever you feel a forum provides you. I mean I'm sure you'll need a place to trash talk thine enemy or read a bunch of troll posts. You'll get your fix, don't worry.
What release dates? You mean the Quarter Estimation of when they hope to release? Because thats the only official thing they've given is hopeful quarter estimations. I'd like to see where they said "this date is set in stone adn here it is" because they haven't.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Just continue to vent here! Nothing wrong with that and it is simple and easy. Don't just say he lied about a release date as they are estimates but I can't recall a time when a game was announced, the company slated when they wanted to release it, and they actually reached it. Most, if not all current mmorpgs will post dates for release and not hit them.
Just continue to vent here! Nothing wrong with that and it is simple and easy. Don't just say he lied about a release date as they are estimates but I can't recall a time when a game was announced, the company slated when they wanted to release it, and they actually reached it. Most, if not all current mmorpgs will post dates for release and not hit them.
Forsure, but I believe from conception "Warhammer Online" has had more delays then any other mmorpg since its announcement. But yea... thats right from the start before Mythic time, still though too long! But sucks for fans of the lore having to wait all this time.
Lots of new info released today, and Warhammer Alliance apparently can't handle the load! It's been nearly impossible to get into the site. I think Warhammer Alliance is hosted by Curse Gaming. I also notice that war.curse.com is also having issues. I wonder what kinds of servers the other fansites have?
This is precisely why an official forum is needed. Mythic could easily afford servers that could handle the increased traffic whenever new information is released. And all that information could be handled in a single thread.
Fansites who have to pick up the slack will inevitably have to rely on outside advertising, subscription fees, or some other way of raising money to pay for the added bandwith and server space that they'll need to keep going. A game company, on the other hand, could budget the forum servers and bandwith as part of their advertising for the game, making it easier for them to provide the level of service that a lot of players expect for their money these days.
There's no need for official forums -- it only leads players to the delusion that their feedback is important when it really isn't. Game designers make their own games largely to their satisfaction and then let the kids into it.
Sites like Allakhazam and Warcry fulfill the need for consolidating necessary information because they are enterprising -- whoever can step up can have the title of unofficial official warhammer forums.
Lots of new info released today, and Warhammer Alliance apparently can't handle the load! It's been nearly impossible to get into the site. I think Warhammer Alliance is hosted by Curse Gaming. I also notice that war.curse.com is also having issues. I wonder what kinds of servers the other fansites have?
This is precisely why an official forum is needed. Mythic could easily afford servers that could handle the increased traffic whenever new information is released. And all that information could be handled in a single thread.
Fansites who have to pick up the slack will inevitably have to rely on outside advertising, subscription fees, or some other way of raising money to pay for the added bandwith and server space that they'll need to keep going. A game company, on the other hand, could budget the forum servers and bandwith as part of their advertising for the game, making it easier for them to provide the level of service that a lot of players expect for their money these days.
Exactly!! that is a very good point there.
But Money is a concern, its the moderators feelings with people saying lots of bad things that Mythic feel they can't handle...
A simple cost vs benefit analysis will show that the cost to maintain an official forum strongly outweighs the benefit.
It is not an issue of the customer being ignored, because they wont be. There are other avenues for player feedback and yes fan sites will also be used. I'm sure the fan sites love this decision too as it will give them a community.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If you can't wrap your mind around why a company might be opposed to maintaining an official forum, then I hope you choose to play another game.
The cost to maintain an official forum outweighs the benefit? Explain to me then why non subscription games feel that the benefits of having an official forum outweighs the costs?
Subscription based games have to go that extra mile IMVHO or else we as customers lose in the end.
Subscription-based games capture and retain their customers by sheer virtue of the subscription model. Non-subscription games can only reinforce their memberships by expanding their reach as much as possible, i.e. using the forums as tool to make the players invest/re-invest personal interest in the game.
Subscription-based games capture and retain their customers by sheer virtue of the subscription model.
What? Not even close. Subscription based games capture and retain their customers by offering a game that people enjoy along with extra services (which includes official forums, BTW) that give more value to -- and therefore, more reason to pay for-- their product.
If you want people to pay full retail plus a monthly fee to play your game, you have to give them a reason to justify the expense. It's not just the game, but the whole package, including services offered, that have to be taken into account. Making them pay to play your game, then expecting them to go elsewhere to get any answers undercuts that added value.
Non-subscription games can only reinforce their memberships by expanding their reach as much as possible, i.e. using the forums as tool to make the players invest/re-invest personal interest in the game.
This is partly true. Also, some people just don't see a reason to pay for an MMO when there are free games to play too, so they're naturally drawn to a free model. For proof of this, please see Guild Wars, which has more players than all of SOE's games combined.
This is precisely why an official forum is needed. Mythic could easily afford servers that could handle the increased traffic whenever new information is released. And all that information could be handled in a single thread. Fansites who have to pick up the slack will inevitably have to rely on outside advertising, subscription fees, or some other way of raising money to pay for the added bandwith and server space that they'll need to keep going. A game company, on the other hand, could budget the forum servers and bandwith as part of their advertising for the game, making it easier for them to provide the level of service that a lot of players expect for their money these days.
The "outage" at Warhammer Alliance was caused by people downloading the new WOW patch off the Curse Network Servers (which hosts WHA). Curse took steps to remedy the situation. They had resources in place to adjust the server and fix the problem That's exactly what they did. Kudos!
Warhammer Vault and WAR-RvR have IGN Servers. So, very few chances of crashes there.
Warhammer Conflict has its own dedicated server for our two sites (we have another site for an EA Game). Sure, people can say that Warhammer Conflict is small . . . but I think the bandwith we use on our two sites is likely equal to or greater than some of the other WAR sites. (Our other site has almost 6000 members, and offers thousands of custom downloads and, of course, the arcade, gallery, blogs etc that WHC has).
My point is that each site has a strong server. Yeah, WHA had some issues today . . but it was fixed while the demand was still extremely high! When they ran into problems, they had 500 people on the site. There's nearly that much on there right now, and the site is lightning fast.
The "outage" at Warhammer Alliance was caused by people downloading the new WOW patch off the Curse Network Servers (which hosts WHA). Curse took steps to remedy the situation. They had resources in place to adjust the server and fix the problem That's exactly what they did. Kudos! Warhammer Vault and WAR-RvR have IGN Servers. So, very few chances of crashes there. Warhammer Conflict has its own dedicated server for our two sites (we have another site for an EA Game). Sure, people can say that Warhammer Conflict is small . . . but I think the bandwith we use on our two sites is likely equal to or greater than some of the other WAR sites. (Our other site has almost 6000 members, and offers thousands of custom downloads and, of course, the arcade, gallery, blogs etc that WHC has). My point is that each site has a strong server. Yeah, WHA had some issues today . . but it was fixed while the demand was still extremely high! When they ran into problems, they had 500 people on the site. There's nearly that much on there right now, and the site is lightning fast.
All of that is well and good, but you're still not getting the point. It is still in the best interest of a game company to host and maintain their own dedicated servers that include official forums on them.
If you want people to not only pay full retail (or more than that if they're buying the Collector's Edition), and you're also making them pay an additional monthly fee to play that game that they've already paid for, then you can't push them off to a bunch of fansites if they have any issues with your product. It's unprofessional.
If you're charging a monthly fee, at the very least you owe your paying customers some kind of service in return to justify the expense. Period. It's a very basic quid pro quo-- your customers pay you to be able to play the game that they've already paid full price for, and in return, you offer them some kind of customer service, including official forums, on your site to show them that you appreciate their vote of confidence in your game. You don't just shove them all off to a bunch of fansites. It shirks your responsibility as the developer and publisher of the game, and it also lessens your accountability to those paying customers.
This isn't 2001 anymore. The market has changed from when Mythic first released DAoC, and customers are much more discerning, with a much wider variety of game choices than there were seven years ago. You can't just shuffle people off to outside sites that have zero accountability. It doesn't work that way anymore.
The "outage" at Warhammer Alliance was caused by people downloading the new WOW patch off the Curse Network Servers (which hosts WHA). Curse took steps to remedy the situation. They had resources in place to adjust the server and fix the problem That's exactly what they did. Kudos! Warhammer Vault and WAR-RvR have IGN Servers. So, very few chances of crashes there. Warhammer Conflict has its own dedicated server for our two sites (we have another site for an EA Game). Sure, people can say that Warhammer Conflict is small . . . but I think the bandwith we use on our two sites is likely equal to or greater than some of the other WAR sites. (Our other site has almost 6000 members, and offers thousands of custom downloads and, of course, the arcade, gallery, blogs etc that WHC has). My point is that each site has a strong server. Yeah, WHA had some issues today . . but it was fixed while the demand was still extremely high! When they ran into problems, they had 500 people on the site. There's nearly that much on there right now, and the site is lightning fast.
All of that is well and good, but you're still not getting the point. It is still in the best interest of a game company to host and maintain their own dedicated servers that include official forums on them.
If you want people to not only pay full retail (or more than that if they're buying the Collector's Edition), and you're also making them pay an additional monthly fee to play that game that they've already paid for, then you can't push them off to a bunch of fansites if they have any issues with your product. It's unprofessional.
If you're charging a monthly fee, at the very least you owe your paying customers some kind of service in return to justify the expense. Period. It's a very basic quid pro quo-- your customers pay you to be able to play the game that they've already paid full price for, and in return, you offer them some kind of customer service, including official forums, on your site to show them that you appreciate their vote of confidence in your game. You don't just shove them all off to a bunch of fansites. It shirks your responsibility as the developer and publisher of the game, and it also lessens your accountability to those paying customers.
This isn't 2001 anymore. The market has changed from when Mythic first released DAoC, and customers are much more discerning, with a much wider variety of game choices than there were seven years ago. You can't just shuffle people off to outside sites that have zero accountability. It doesn't work that way anymore.
I agree with your post except the reference to the CE subbers. I would think every single person buying a CE currently knows there is no official forums and knows where the four or five main fan sites are located at.
This thread (and all the others like it) just goes to prove EAmythic is making the right choice by not having official forums. I mean if you get this worked up about something that probably won't even effect you, and you haven’t even spent a single cent on, just imagine the uproar when Class A on Side B has a better skill than Class F on Side A.
Have all you people complaining about the lack of official forums even tried to read the WoW ones? They are nothing but a s*** slinging match over the latest 'issue' of class balance (cause, you know, your class is perfectly fine, it's all the others that are broken) or the endless debate over 'casuals' vs. 'hardcore', there is very little useful feedback and genuinely good ideas there, and personally I don't blame anyone for not want to read them professionally as I still maintain the be best way to kick a WoW habit it to start reading the forums.
Also, there is nothing official posted there that could not be put in:
A. A newsletter.
B. The front page of the official site, probably with a link to a more in-depth article on it.
C. In a dedicated tech support area FAQ / Recent Issues and Solutions sections of the official site where you can communicate with tech support via a form and they could e-mail you back directly, rather than you having to keep checking for a response on a forum ever few minutes.
Personally I don't care if WAR has an official forum or not, but I like that they don’t as hopefully this means the devs can spend more time and more money on making a better game and less shifting through rubbish. Maybe the monthly fee will even be cheaper because of it (though it is EA so I doubt that... speaking of EA I don't even want to imagine all the 'F*** EA' threads that will inevitably drown out any sort of sensible discussion every time there’s even the slightest issue with the game).
Originally posted by Arkane_A I agree with your post except the reference to the CE subbers. I would think every single person buying a CE currently knows there is no official forums and knows where the four or five main fan sites are located at.
Maybe, maybe not.
It's possible that some of the CE's could go to tabletop gamers that will be playing their very first MMO with WAR, and only because it's a Warhammer game. They might have very limited experience with the way Mythic works, and that's a potential hazard that Mythic has to take into consideration.
I will readily admit that a lot of official forums become a cesspool of whines and flames. However, it's still a service that a game company should offer as an incentive to potential customers. It all goes back to justifying the expense for people. If you have to pay retail, then pay again on top of that before you ever get to play, shouldn't you get something in return that goes above and beyond being told to go to a bunch of unofficial fansites for any information?
Comments
Forums are hardly needed on any level. DAoC, as has been said numerous times, has done fine with no official forums, as has FFXI, No UO Forums either to my knowledge. Considering FFXi has a constant 500k+ playerbase, not having forums must not speak that poorly of them.
SoE forums and Blizz forums both fail to give anything to the customer any faster then the FFXI devs posting on Alla or KillingIfrit, and usually those sites have informationon EQ1/2 or WoW, leaked or otherwise, faster then the official forums will acknowledge, generally days if not weeks in advance.
Forums are not a needed thing, since the internet has tons of fansites, and as Mythic has already showed in WARs development, they tend to communicate just fine on the more popular and mainstream sites(which will more then likely include such big names like Allakhazam after release).
That sums it up.
It would not stop me from trying the game but for those trying to downplay it as if it is not a big deal they need to reconsider. For this game to move beyond being a niche game it has to go that extra mile.
No official forum = not going that extra mile.
The year is 2008 and DAOC is considered an OLD game. The internet has grown significantly since then so lets put that arguement to rest.
The fact that there are games that do NOT require a monthly subscription but still have have official forums speaks volumes about the importance of them.
Yeh... with Kefkah's post, could could we now let this thread die?
We've heard about every individual opinion on the matter, it's been discussed by others and I think about everyone knows the no forum decision by now. If there's anything left to say I'm surprised
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Actually I have something to say and it has most likely been said in some way already. I would love to see an official forum. Yes they would have to deal with some idiots, a few posts in this one thread are good examples, but the way to deal with them is pretty simple. I favor the Zero Tolerance approach. You get abusive to a CSR, Mod, or anyone else that works to maintain the game and forum you get smacked with the ban stick. Quick, simple, and permanent.
Official forums would have been a nice place for would-be future subscriber to find out the game was delayed instead of having to find out on a third party fan site.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
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Co-Leader of Inquisition
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Info is up on warhammeronline.com :P
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Forums are hardly needed on any level. DAoC, as has been said numerous times, has done fine with no official forums, as has FFXI, No UO Forums either to my knowledge. Considering FFXi has a constant 500k+ playerbase, not having forums must not speak that poorly of them.
SoE forums and Blizz forums both fail to give anything to the customer any faster then the FFXI devs posting on Alla or KillingIfrit, and usually those sites have informationon EQ1/2 or WoW, leaked or otherwise, faster then the official forums will acknowledge, generally days if not weeks in advance.
Forums are not a needed thing, since the internet has tons of fansites, and as Mythic has already showed in WARs development, they tend to communicate just fine on the more popular and mainstream sites(which will more then likely include such big names like Allakhazam after release).
Yes they are needed. If only to give your project a solid feeling and to show your compromise towards the people that play your game.
Lots of new info released today, and Warhammer Alliance apparently can't handle the load! It's been nearly impossible to get into the site.
I think Warhammer Alliance is hosted by Curse Gaming. I also notice that war.curse.com is also having issues.
I wonder what kinds of servers the other fansites have?
A simple cost vs benefit analysis will show that the cost to maintain an official forum strongly outweighs the benefit.
It is not an issue of the customer being ignored, because they wont be. There are other avenues for player feedback and yes fan sites will also be used. I'm sure the fan sites love this decision too as it will give them a community.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If you can't wrap your mind around why a company might be opposed to maintaining an official forum, then I hope you choose to play another game.
Subscription based games have to go that extra mile IMVHO or else we as customers lose in the end.
The customers lose in the end? I think you're being a bit over the top.
There is no real benefit to the company to host a forum. Anything the forum can provide (feedback) can be obtained through other channels or fan site forums. The cost is having to maintain as well as moderate said forum. As they have a responsibility to now make sure content they are hosting does not break things such as laws or go against what they would like to represent as a company (lets say hate here).
As a customer, I am sure one or two fansites will be able to accomodate whatever you feel a forum provides you. I mean I'm sure you'll need a place to trash talk thine enemy or read a bunch of troll posts. You'll get your fix, don't worry.
No official forums = no official avenue to complain about how Jacobs lied with his release dates given.
How cosy for them.
But after all the moaning is said and done the onus is still on to release a good game.
But still can't post positive things on an Official forum.
hmmm swings both ways.
What release dates? You mean the Quarter Estimation of when they hope to release? Because thats the only official thing they've given is hopeful quarter estimations. I'd like to see where they said "this date is set in stone adn here it is" because they haven't.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Just continue to vent here! Nothing wrong with that and it is simple and easy. Don't just say he lied about a release date as they are estimates but I can't recall a time when a game was announced, the company slated when they wanted to release it, and they actually reached it. Most, if not all current mmorpgs will post dates for release and not hit them.
Forsure, but I believe from conception "Warhammer Online" has had more delays then any other mmorpg since its announcement. But yea... thats right from the start before Mythic time, still though too long! But sucks for fans of the lore having to wait all this time.
This is precisely why an official forum is needed. Mythic could easily afford servers that could handle the increased traffic whenever new information is released. And all that information could be handled in a single thread.
Fansites who have to pick up the slack will inevitably have to rely on outside advertising, subscription fees, or some other way of raising money to pay for the added bandwith and server space that they'll need to keep going. A game company, on the other hand, could budget the forum servers and bandwith as part of their advertising for the game, making it easier for them to provide the level of service that a lot of players expect for their money these days.
There's no need for official forums -- it only leads players to the delusion that their feedback is important when it really isn't. Game designers make their own games largely to their satisfaction and then let the kids into it.
Sites like Allakhazam and Warcry fulfill the need for consolidating necessary information because they are enterprising -- whoever can step up can have the title of unofficial official warhammer forums.
This is precisely why an official forum is needed. Mythic could easily afford servers that could handle the increased traffic whenever new information is released. And all that information could be handled in a single thread.
Fansites who have to pick up the slack will inevitably have to rely on outside advertising, subscription fees, or some other way of raising money to pay for the added bandwith and server space that they'll need to keep going. A game company, on the other hand, could budget the forum servers and bandwith as part of their advertising for the game, making it easier for them to provide the level of service that a lot of players expect for their money these days.
Exactly!! that is a very good point there.
But Money is a concern, its the moderators feelings with people saying lots of bad things that Mythic feel they can't handle...
Subscription based games have to go that extra mile IMVHO or else we as customers lose in the end.
Subscription-based games capture and retain their customers by sheer virtue of the subscription model. Non-subscription games can only reinforce their memberships by expanding their reach as much as possible, i.e. using the forums as tool to make the players invest/re-invest personal interest in the game.
What? Not even close. Subscription based games capture and retain their customers by offering a game that people enjoy along with extra services (which includes official forums, BTW) that give more value to -- and therefore, more reason to pay for-- their product.
If you want people to pay full retail plus a monthly fee to play your game, you have to give them a reason to justify the expense. It's not just the game, but the whole package, including services offered, that have to be taken into account. Making them pay to play your game, then expecting them to go elsewhere to get any answers undercuts that added value.
This is partly true. Also, some people just don't see a reason to pay for an MMO when there are free games to play too, so they're naturally drawn to a free model. For proof of this, please see Guild Wars, which has more players than all of SOE's games combined.
The "outage" at Warhammer Alliance was caused by people downloading the new WOW patch off the Curse Network Servers (which hosts WHA). Curse took steps to remedy the situation. They had resources in place to adjust the server and fix the problem That's exactly what they did. Kudos!
Warhammer Vault and WAR-RvR have IGN Servers. So, very few chances of crashes there.
Warhammer Conflict has its own dedicated server for our two sites (we have another site for an EA Game). Sure, people can say that Warhammer Conflict is small . . . but I think the bandwith we use on our two sites is likely equal to or greater than some of the other WAR sites. (Our other site has almost 6000 members, and offers thousands of custom downloads and, of course, the arcade, gallery, blogs etc that WHC has).
My point is that each site has a strong server. Yeah, WHA had some issues today . . but it was fixed while the demand was still extremely high! When they ran into problems, they had 500 people on the site. There's nearly that much on there right now, and the site is lightning fast.
All of that is well and good, but you're still not getting the point. It is still in the best interest of a game company to host and maintain their own dedicated servers that include official forums on them.
If you want people to not only pay full retail (or more than that if they're buying the Collector's Edition), and you're also making them pay an additional monthly fee to play that game that they've already paid for, then you can't push them off to a bunch of fansites if they have any issues with your product. It's unprofessional.
If you're charging a monthly fee, at the very least you owe your paying customers some kind of service in return to justify the expense. Period. It's a very basic quid pro quo-- your customers pay you to be able to play the game that they've already paid full price for, and in return, you offer them some kind of customer service, including official forums, on your site to show them that you appreciate their vote of confidence in your game. You don't just shove them all off to a bunch of fansites. It shirks your responsibility as the developer and publisher of the game, and it also lessens your accountability to those paying customers.
This isn't 2001 anymore. The market has changed from when Mythic first released DAoC, and customers are much more discerning, with a much wider variety of game choices than there were seven years ago. You can't just shuffle people off to outside sites that have zero accountability. It doesn't work that way anymore.
All of that is well and good, but you're still not getting the point. It is still in the best interest of a game company to host and maintain their own dedicated servers that include official forums on them.
If you want people to not only pay full retail (or more than that if they're buying the Collector's Edition), and you're also making them pay an additional monthly fee to play that game that they've already paid for, then you can't push them off to a bunch of fansites if they have any issues with your product. It's unprofessional.
If you're charging a monthly fee, at the very least you owe your paying customers some kind of service in return to justify the expense. Period. It's a very basic quid pro quo-- your customers pay you to be able to play the game that they've already paid full price for, and in return, you offer them some kind of customer service, including official forums, on your site to show them that you appreciate their vote of confidence in your game. You don't just shove them all off to a bunch of fansites. It shirks your responsibility as the developer and publisher of the game, and it also lessens your accountability to those paying customers.
This isn't 2001 anymore. The market has changed from when Mythic first released DAoC, and customers are much more discerning, with a much wider variety of game choices than there were seven years ago. You can't just shuffle people off to outside sites that have zero accountability. It doesn't work that way anymore.
I agree with your post except the reference to the CE subbers. I would think every single person buying a CE currently knows there is no official forums and knows where the four or five main fan sites are located at.
This thread (and all the others like it) just goes to prove EAmythic is making the right choice by not having official forums. I mean if you get this worked up about something that probably won't even effect you, and you haven’t even spent a single cent on, just imagine the uproar when Class A on Side B has a better skill than Class F on Side A.
Have all you people complaining about the lack of official forums even tried to read the WoW ones? They are nothing but a s*** slinging match over the latest 'issue' of class balance (cause, you know, your class is perfectly fine, it's all the others that are broken) or the endless debate over 'casuals' vs. 'hardcore', there is very little useful feedback and genuinely good ideas there, and personally I don't blame anyone for not want to read them professionally as I still maintain the be best way to kick a WoW habit it to start reading the forums.
Also, there is nothing official posted there that could not be put in:
A. A newsletter.
B. The front page of the official site, probably with a link to a more in-depth article on it.
C. In a dedicated tech support area FAQ / Recent Issues and Solutions sections of the official site where you can communicate with tech support via a form and they could e-mail you back directly, rather than you having to keep checking for a response on a forum ever few minutes.
Personally I don't care if WAR has an official forum or not, but I like that they don’t as hopefully this means the devs can spend more time and more money on making a better game and less shifting through rubbish. Maybe the monthly fee will even be cheaper because of it (though it is EA so I doubt that... speaking of EA I don't even want to imagine all the 'F*** EA' threads that will inevitably drown out any sort of sensible discussion every time there’s even the slightest issue with the game).
Maybe, maybe not.
It's possible that some of the CE's could go to tabletop gamers that will be playing their very first MMO with WAR, and only because it's a Warhammer game. They might have very limited experience with the way Mythic works, and that's a potential hazard that Mythic has to take into consideration.
I will readily admit that a lot of official forums become a cesspool of whines and flames. However, it's still a service that a game company should offer as an incentive to potential customers. It all goes back to justifying the expense for people. If you have to pay retail, then pay again on top of that before you ever get to play, shouldn't you get something in return that goes above and beyond being told to go to a bunch of unofficial fansites for any information?