There are two compelling reasons for an official forum, despite the protests to the contrary:
1. If the big kahuna in the market can offer a series of official forums for their millions of paying customers, then there is simply no good excuse from anyone else not to offer a similar service. Period. Those millions of customers are a potential untapped market for WAR, and they've come to expect a certain level of service even if they don't use the forums themselves. It's ridiculous for WAR not to offer anything comparable.
2. Sure, player guides and help can be found on fansites for some issues. But let's face it-- at the end of the day, there isn't a fansite out there that will have the same level of technical know-how of the game client that the devs do. At the VERY least, WAR should offer official tech forums on their site for people to get help for bugs, crashes and other technical issues that are part and parcel of any MMO.
Not having official forums might have worked seven years ago when DAoC came out, but the market is completely different now. People expect a certain level of service for their $15 a month because the market is saturated with games. If a game company isn't willing to give their paying customers a place on their servers to talk about issues and to get official answers from the development team instead of forcing them to hunt around a bunch of disparate, often contradictory fan sites and their internal politics in order to get any information, then those players will get frustrated and leave.
The biggest disconnect in this thread is from the fans that have been following Mythic for years now. You guys might be used to how things work, but you're missing the point-- you've spent years getting used to the system that is already in place. WAR has the potential to bring in a large number of new players to the MMO genre. Players who don't know the way things have worked for the past seven years, and who will find a lack of official forums unacceptable. Those are the people that WAR should offer some sort of service to. You guys might already have the fansites you like to post at, and you might already know where to go, and how to navigate the fansite politics in order to get any information. That's all good. But for someone who is just coming in to the game, and into the world of Mythic, if they can't go to the devs directly and immediately to post about an issue they're having and on Mythic's dime (and no, sending an e-mail doesn't count), they might not be inclined to bother with fansites to get any answers. They'll just hit the cancel button, which would be bad for the game.
There are two compelling reasons for an official forum, despite the protests to the contrary: 1. If the big kahuna in the market can offer a series of official forums for their millions of paying customers, then there is simply no good excuse from anyone else not to offer a similar service. Period. Those millions of customers are a potential untapped market for WAR, and they've come to expect a certain level of service even if they don't use the forums themselves. It's ridiculous for WAR not to offer anything comparable. 2. Sure, player guides and help can be found on fansites for some issues. But let's face it-- at the end of the day, there isn't a fansite out there that will have the same level of technical know-how of the game client that the devs do. At the VERY least, WAR should offer official tech forums on their site for people to get help for bugs, crashes and other technical issues that are part and parcel of any MMO. Not having official forums might have worked seven years ago when DAoC came out, but the market is completely different now. People expect a certain level of service for their $15 a month because the market is saturated with games. If a game company isn't willing to give their paying customers a place on their servers to talk about issues and to get official answers from the development team instead of forcing them to hunt around a bunch of disparate, often contradictory fan sites and their internal politics in order to get any information, then those players will get frustrated and leave. The biggest disconnect in this thread is from the fans that have been following Mythic for years now. You guys might be used to how things work, but you're missing the point-- you've spent years getting used to the system that is already in place. WAR has the potential to bring in a large number of new players to the MMO genre. Players who don't know the way things have worked for the past seven years, and who will find a lack of official forums unacceptable. Those are the people that WAR should offer some sort of service to. You guys might already have the fansites you like to post at, and you might already know where to go, and how to navigate the fansite politics in order to get any information. That's all good. But for someone who is just coming in to the game, and into the world of Mythic, if they can't go to the devs directly and immediately to post about an issue they're having and on Mythic's dime (and no, sending an e-mail doesn't count), they might not be inclined to bother with fansites to get any answers. They'll just hit the cancel button, which would be bad for the game.
Been playing MMO all the way back to M69 . Never needed official forums , i hear you talking about what people are use to or expect. But if Mythic wanted to give people the same experience as WoW then they just not make their game and let you play WoW.
No forums is also part of the community building aspect where people will hang-out in certain forums etc. and ther not be 100 bill unknow people posting also, while im sure there will be forums liek that too , but it encourages peopel to branch out. Also for techsupport , they still offer that. And its easyer to find and locat when there are not 1000000 other post on nothingness.
As for the real tech support its called google , it provides much better results than any official forum can.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Stop acting like the forums are the only way to talk to or ask the devs about things.
They will have technical support. They're talking about no open forums. They don't want to let a bunch of people into a room and have a handful of them asking questions, a handful trying to be helpful, but most running around in circles/into walls or insulting others. I'm sure the community - old Mythic fans and newcomers alike - will get along fine. This game is not going to fall short of it's full potential because of no open forums!
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Stop acting like the forums are the only way to talk to or ask the devs about things. They will have technical support. They're talking about no open forums. They don't want to let a bunch of people into a room and have a handful of them asking questions, a handful trying to be helpful, but most running around in circles/into walls or insulting others. I'm sure the community - old Mythic fans and newcomers alike - will get along fine. This game is not going to fall short of it's full potential because of no open forums!
you just described every fansite of every mmo. every game i have played (besides swg) had a pretty good home forum with regular posters who worked with the mods and kept some order. fact is "general discussion" forums for mmo games is less for social interaction and mostly for frustrated players to vent a little steam. nothing wrong with that. hell we all get upset at game mechanics from time to time.no need to take it seriously.
it's the other forums...tech support,crafting,classes,faqs, you will see very little trolling. and they are the important forums. if a company wants a successful game they have a forum....every other game does.
sometimes it is good to leave moderation up to the experts...people paid to deal with insulting/childish people. because let me tell you when a huge nerf comes down.........and it will.....it always does in mmos.....i wouldn't want to be a volunteer mod on a fansite trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun!
As for the real tech support its called google , it provides much better results than any official forum can.
So basically, you want a company to tell its paying customers that if they have any problems with their product to just Google the answer instead of providing the help themselves?
I'm sure that would go over really well in any other industry. I mean, just imagine a car company telling people that if they have any technical issues with their brand new, just-off-the-showroom-floor model, that they should just Google about the issue because Google provides better answers than they can as the manufacturer. Don't you see how nonsensical that is?
It's the same thing with MMO's. People need to stop treating these games as somehow exempt from basic customer service just because they're online. You may never use the official forums. That's great. But they should exist, if for no other reason than to give paying customers a direct line to the developers, and to give some sort of transparency to potential customers who might be interested in the game.
Wow, look at all these people who ignore 99% of what someone posts and target one line that may not make sense. Then they blow it up so the poster looks stupid.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Originally posted by Lidane People need to stop treating these games as somehow exempt from basic customer service just because they're online.
basic customer service is a direct line to the support, not a forum, look at the tech forums of running games, it's hard to find a dev answer on the eq2, l2 and cox tech board, on the wow board you'll see one every 15 threads, the only real dev threads you'll see are the stickies, and for those we sure as hell won't need a forum. there is no difference between the current technical support boards and fansite/google help, forums are not there for a straight line to the devs in case of problems, they're just not.
Originally posted by Salvatoris That entire post is total BS. awww thanks, so sweet of you. The EQ2 forums are active, searchable and packed with information. they are active, which doesn't imply anything good, they are searchable, which is a necessity of any forum.
there actually are guides to every class in the classboards, and then there are the other 99.99% of the threads. i am not going to talk about the sense of class guides... Anyone who wants to can go over there and look. The assertion that anyone who's anyone posts on eq2flames is absurd. As I understand it, they aren't even an officially supported fansite any more. It's just a place to bash the game these days. on the one side it is a place to bash, on the other side it's the one place where people actually have a clue and not every discussion over game mechanics pops up twice a week and people have to teach another crazy person how math works. Official forums are generally packed with gameplay guides of all types, server and class specific discussions, answerers to everyday questions people might have. I don't think a lot of people actually believe their posts on official forums lead to gameplay changes, but they are still always the best place to find people to have those discussions with.. and certainly the most likely place for a dev to read your ideas. fansites are generally packed with gameplay guides of all types, server and class specific discussions, answers to everyday questions people might have. devs are just as likely to take gameplay ideas from there as they are to take them from beta forums.
I prefer to have factual information about a game rather than flames... but maybe that's just me. I'm not sure which section of EQ2 flames it is that you think is better than official forums.. maybe the forum titled "your guild sucks"?? or maybe the "rate a retard" forum... I guess all the information I need could be hidden in one of the 42 threads in the "guides, instructions and walkthroughs" section. Just as a point of reference, there are 456 threads in "rate-a-retard" and 99 in "your guild sucks"... good thing fan forums don't ever turn in to cesspools themselves.
i am right now searching for the guides-forum on the official eq2 boards, oh my, i can't find it, maybe it is because most of those aren't classified in such a forum.
i've played eq2 for 3 years in a server dominating raidguild and have followed both boards over these years, eq2flames only since it actually started, so unless you can tell me you have played in any kind of more min-maxing fashion than high end raiding over that time, just accept that you can't win this argument over eq2 boards.
a) find information and help from fellow players and developers.
b) Say your opinion and feeling about the game
MMO forums are here for obvious reasons. We all see it cause its not related to any one game.
But... WAR forums would NOT have such forums. Its up to the devs to CONTROL the discussion on the forums to build up the game on positive grounds. If they dont think they can't they are obviously not able to bring out the game that players were hoping for.
You can crap all over wow but at least they are honest - they allow the custimors to talk and they deal with things when needed.
Now here is the big deal.
Having no official forums is very bad for the custimors. Not because they can not rant about stupid things - But because they can NOT find about some of the really important issues that are going on - game breaking factors that makes the custimors powerless when they stand on their own but very powerfull when they find out there are alot of other players having same problems.
Lets take an example shall we. Just a simple one that not only might come up but WILL come up.
Connection problems.
No offical forums = Every single custimor will not be able to get a clear picture of whats going on. The game developer will NOT take the side of the custimor and will ignore the problems as long as possible. This is what is even happening on OFFICAL forums. But the power of the players solves it.
Offical forums. Players realise that more players are having simualre problems. They will see an obvious pattern and in the NUMBERS they are able to force the issue. Not in terms of crappy game blance or poor buggy game - but a perfectly reasonable aspect that an ONLINE computer game should be able to provide. And you guys REALLY think that the WAR will be honest about these problems when even open official forums like wow can't ?
THis is where the Custimors should have the power - NOT the company that is taking money for SERVICE that they can not provide. There is a SUB payed for a reason.
i am right now searching for the guides-forum on the official eq2 boards, oh my, i can't find it, maybe it is because most of those aren't classified in such a forum.
i've played eq2 for 3 years in a server dominating raidguild and have followed both boards over these years, eq2flames only since it actually started, so unless you can tell me you have played in any kind of more min-maxing fashion than high end raiding over that time, just accept that you can't win this argument over eq2 boards.
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... Posting what I know and testing the features of the new board. Faction FAQ 4.5*****************************************What is faction?In essence, faction is how much a specific group (faction) likes or dislikes you based on your Race/Class/Religion and what actions you have accomplished...
...500p says that the DoN FAQ will not be up and running before the day of the release...... Taking 1 bet only, check with me on Morden Rasp server if you are willing to bet against me and put some plat on that the FAQ will be up before the 14th ...
...Hi, I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right place but I was looking for more information on DoN. I tried the links from the main page but all I could get was the features page and a coming soon message on the FAQ page. Anyway I'm going to just ask what I want to know and I suppose others could...
...Most boards you go to have an FAQ that is sticky at the top. Perhaps we could start a thread that LINKS to the threads already done? I.E What websites do you use? <link> <link> Where is a good place to hunt at lvl X <link> Just...
... Board FAQ Q. Why can't I edit, post images, etc? A. You can, if you have reached the correct posting, or lurking, rank. (See chart below.) Q. Why are certain privileges tied to board ranks? A. It is to cut down on the action of board trolls. Certain people seem to get a kick out...
... I think it's about time we put together a basic FAQ for those visiting the board that are new to the game. Feel free to add whatever you like, any help with this is greatly appreciated. For anyone looking for a specific answer that is not found here, you can try running a search on these forums...
... The fine folks at the EQ Newsgroup (and especially Lennaman) have put together a very comprehensive FAQ, which you can reach by following this link This webpage is no longer effective. Thanks all! BrenloMessage Edited by Kytherea on 02-06-2006 01:48 PM...
...Nanyea has put together some information on the Dragons of Norrath expansion. Later on today or tomorrow we'll be doing a full preview with many screenshots and other ifnroamtion following a press tour I'm doing of the new expansion.Read Nanyea's FAQ on Dragons of Norrath here...
... The EQ Players FAQ can be found on the EQPlayers site but have been copied here for your convenience. How do I update my characters information?You must login to EverQuest in order for all of your character's information to be collected. Every time your character is auto saved we will check...
...A forum where you guys could move/copy the really great threads as a sort of repository. Sometimes I see you guys sticking a post to the top for a period of time, so a FAQ forum would be more of a permanent home for the uber threads. Just me thinking out loud again. ...
Sorry to bring WoW into the mix here, but the main reason why I never went to their official forums is:
A) I found all i needed on external sites such as Thottbot and Wowhead
GAME-BREAKING NEWS!!! and things like that were always posted in a rectangular box right on the main page when you loaded the game. Right when you logged in. So, if servers were down (the connection problems example), I already knew about it without even thinking about the forums. No one said WAR can't do something like this.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Sorry to bring WoW into the mix here, but the main reason why I never went to their official forums is: A) I found all i needed on external sites such as Thottbot and Wowhead GAME-BREAKING NEWS!!! and things like that were always posted in a rectangular box right on the main page when you loaded the game. Right when you logged in. So, if servers were down (the connection problems example), I already knew about it without even thinking about the forums. No one said WAR can't do something like this.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
I'm sure they wouldn't notice 10k people suddenly not being able to connect for 3 months.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I have no problem finding a guide on the EQ2 forums. Just as a test, I had my 10 year old son try to find a guide to his class on the EQ2 forums. It took him under a minute. I asked him to find a guide for noobs, and again he was capable of navigating to a suitable guide in less than a minute.
If you are incapable of grasping the concept of categorized information, that is a shame... but with as many guides as are available on that forum, it would be a little chaotic to just shove them all in a "Guides" folder. You want a general gameplay guide, check the gameplay section. Need a class guide, check the top of the forum dedicated to your class. Who wants to venture a guess on where to find Tradeskill guides?? Oh.. there they are, stickied to the top of the tradeskill forum. If you need to find something really obscure, or just have no idea what category your query fall under, there is a handy dandy search function... even a blank at the top of every page to search that topic or forum. Damn handy feature, IMO.
As to your second paragraph... I'm not sure what the size of your e-peen has to do with the topic of the worthiness of official forums, but just FYI. If you think that little monologue about your server dominating high end min-maxing raidguild make you look cool, or somehow more credible than anyone else... it doesn't. It kinda makes you look like a dick....
oh they would notice....as long as nobody complained in the official forums they wouldn't fix it!
So if they noticed they'd risk 10k people cancelling their subs cuz they couldn't connect for 3 months?
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Sorry to bring WoW into the mix here, but the main reason why I never went to their official forums is: A) I found all i needed on external sites such as Thottbot and Wowhead GAME-BREAKING NEWS!!! and things like that were always posted in a rectangular box right on the main page when you loaded the game. Right when you logged in. So, if servers were down (the connection problems example), I already knew about it without even thinking about the forums. No one said WAR can't do something like this.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
Err, since Telia is an external problem this is not strange is it? That's not blizzard's problem as far as I know?
Also when was this cause I never experienced this from the Netherlands, although it couldve been during my break.
I'm sure they wouldn't notice 10k people suddenly not being able to connect for 3 months.
They did but they didn't admit it was their fault. The admited it when the players were able to show direct connection between where they lived and in what countries Telia had their network. It was obvious when players from Portugal, Russia, Croatia, Turkey, Iceland and so on took a look on the Telia network and saw them directly been cut of from the game cause of their location.
And yes - it took 3 MONTHS to get it fixed.
Probably wouldn't been fixed at all if not only 10k ppl but ALOT more could directly prove it had NOTHING to do with their connection - but still they paid full price for the game.
Sorry to bring WoW into the mix here, but the main reason why I never went to their official forums is: A) I found all i needed on external sites such as Thottbot and Wowhead GAME-BREAKING NEWS!!! and things like that were always posted in a rectangular box right on the main page when you loaded the game. Right when you logged in. So, if servers were down (the connection problems example), I already knew about it without even thinking about the forums. No one said WAR can't do something like this.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
Err, since Telia is an external problem this is not strange is it? That's not blizzard's problem as far as I know?
Also when was this cause I never experienced this from the Netherlands, although it couldve been during my break.
If Telia doesn't have the decency to step up and admit, to 10,000 people, that it was their fault, that's their problem. But what does that have to do with official WAR forums?
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Sorry to bring WoW into the mix here, but the main reason why I never went to their official forums is: A) I found all i needed on external sites such as Thottbot and Wowhead GAME-BREAKING NEWS!!! and things like that were always posted in a rectangular box right on the main page when you loaded the game. Right when you logged in. So, if servers were down (the connection problems example), I already knew about it without even thinking about the forums. No one said WAR can't do something like this.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
Err, since Telia is an external problem this is not strange is it? That's not blizzard's problem as far as I know?
Also when was this cause I never experienced this from the Netherlands, although it couldve been during my break.
Telia is not EXTERNAL problem m8. Its offical Network supplier in whole of Europe. Offical as in Blizzard pays them for deliviering EVERY single player in Europe to be able to play the game. Official as in they get PAYED from BLizzard for providing that service. But you are Obviously trying to use the same bull that Blizzard did for the first month.
"It has nothing to do with us"
Oh ye... really !!!
Make a game and sell it all over the world - then provide service that dont reach to all they custimors that bought the game... Yes - wonder if you already got a job in a MMO enviroment m8.
I have no problem finding a guide on the EQ2 forums. Just as a test, I had my 10 year old son try to find a guide to his class on the EQ2 forums. It took him under a minute. I asked him to find a guide for noobs, and again he was capable of navigating to a suitable guide in less than a minute. If you are incapable of grasping the concept of categorized information, that is a shame... but with as many guides as are available on that forum, it would be a little chaotic to just shove them all in a "Guides" folder. You want a general gameplay guide, check the gameplay section. Need a class guide, check the top of the forum dedicated to your class. Who wants to venture a guess on where to find Tradeskill guides?? Oh.. there they are, stickied to the top of the tradeskill forum. If you need to find something really obscure, or just have no idea what category your query fall under, there is a handy dandy search function... even a blank at the top of every page to search that topic or forum. Damn handy feature, IMO. As to your second paragraph... I'm not sure what the size of your e-peen has to do with the topic of the worthiness of official forums, but just FYI. If you think that little monologue about your server dominating high end min-maxing raidguild make you look cool, or somehow more credible than anyone else... it doesn't. It kinda makes you look like a dick....
Ohh that guys said you can find class guide on the classboards. HE said that , you must have not read it.
However, he did attack the guild forums.
Originally posted by forthelulz
Originally posted by Ascension08
I'm sure they wouldn't notice 10k people suddenly not being able to connect for 3 months.
oh they would notice....as long as nobody complained in the official forums they wouldn't fix it!
You realize that they have tech support right? (faq, sumbit issue and LIVE chat) you don't think 10k people bashing tech support would draw their attention. Right no offense but you don't seem to even think about this logically. all your arguements are they will not notice. Well if 10k people more started bashing your tech support all with the same issue you would notice.
Ill say it again , so far the official forums of wow are the worse place to get help. google does a much better job, as if the problem is fixable by the player, IT IS THE PLAYERS who are finding a fix for the problem and then later Mod.s who pass it along. If you can personally fix the problem then , it DOESN'T REALLY MATTER ANYWAY. As the best you can do is wait for DEV.s to fix the issue.
"And yes - it took 3 MONTHS to get it fixed. "
This is the best ever so you had offical forums but wait , what good did they do you? 3 months is not well at least it got fixed , due to official forums 3 months is the Mod.s and DEv.s didn't LISTEN TO US DESPITE OFFICIAL FORUMS. Denining this would be out right crazy as Mods. Dev.s and tech guys just ignored 10k people for 3 months. Of course 10k people in that time could post a post everday and the other 5 million players copuld make those post vanish into thin air, 10k really not that many.
However, if 10k people hit their techlines, chat rooms , and submitted issues, with them every day it would be VERY hard to ignore due to the fact that it would acctually TAX their tech support system , which was not made to handle 100k requests a day liek official forums are.
The simple logistics of it Proves that tech people will notice such issues at a higher rate with the live and active tech support system over a FFA official forum system.
The entire tech support issue is FAR IN FAVOR OF MYTHIC SYSTEM AND NOT WOWS.
However, arguing just on the basis of one community to talk as gameheads well i'll leave you to decided what system is better. But its clear .
Active tech support>>>> than Official forums for Tech issues. its a given yet there are people here who are areguing the opposed and that my friend is odd.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
OK, Whiners, stop the crying. EA never said there would be no WAR forums. There will be MOD only forums. That is open to change later. There will be official channels for you to report bugs and exploits, so be happy.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Comments
There are two compelling reasons for an official forum, despite the protests to the contrary:
1. If the big kahuna in the market can offer a series of official forums for their millions of paying customers, then there is simply no good excuse from anyone else not to offer a similar service. Period. Those millions of customers are a potential untapped market for WAR, and they've come to expect a certain level of service even if they don't use the forums themselves. It's ridiculous for WAR not to offer anything comparable.
2. Sure, player guides and help can be found on fansites for some issues. But let's face it-- at the end of the day, there isn't a fansite out there that will have the same level of technical know-how of the game client that the devs do. At the VERY least, WAR should offer official tech forums on their site for people to get help for bugs, crashes and other technical issues that are part and parcel of any MMO.
Not having official forums might have worked seven years ago when DAoC came out, but the market is completely different now. People expect a certain level of service for their $15 a month because the market is saturated with games. If a game company isn't willing to give their paying customers a place on their servers to talk about issues and to get official answers from the development team instead of forcing them to hunt around a bunch of disparate, often contradictory fan sites and their internal politics in order to get any information, then those players will get frustrated and leave.
The biggest disconnect in this thread is from the fans that have been following Mythic for years now. You guys might be used to how things work, but you're missing the point-- you've spent years getting used to the system that is already in place. WAR has the potential to bring in a large number of new players to the MMO genre. Players who don't know the way things have worked for the past seven years, and who will find a lack of official forums unacceptable. Those are the people that WAR should offer some sort of service to. You guys might already have the fansites you like to post at, and you might already know where to go, and how to navigate the fansite politics in order to get any information. That's all good. But for someone who is just coming in to the game, and into the world of Mythic, if they can't go to the devs directly and immediately to post about an issue they're having and on Mythic's dime (and no, sending an e-mail doesn't count), they might not be inclined to bother with fansites to get any answers. They'll just hit the cancel button, which would be bad for the game.
the best post in this thread. quoted for truth.
http://www.soesucks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10
Been playing MMO all the way back to M69 . Never needed official forums , i hear you talking about what people are use to or expect. But if Mythic wanted to give people the same experience as WoW then they just not make their game and let you play WoW.
No forums is also part of the community building aspect where people will hang-out in certain forums etc. and ther not be 100 bill unknow people posting also, while im sure there will be forums liek that too , but it encourages peopel to branch out. Also for techsupport , they still offer that. And its easyer to find and locat when there are not 1000000 other post on nothingness.
As for the real tech support its called google , it provides much better results than any official forum can.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Word!
Stop acting like the forums are the only way to talk to or ask the devs about things.
They will have technical support. They're talking about no open forums. They don't want to let a bunch of people into a room and have a handful of them asking questions, a handful trying to be helpful, but most running around in circles/into walls or insulting others. I'm sure the community - old Mythic fans and newcomers alike - will get along fine. This game is not going to fall short of it's full potential because of no open forums!
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
it's the other forums...tech support,crafting,classes,faqs, you will see very little trolling. and they are the important forums. if a company wants a successful game they have a forum....every other game does.
sometimes it is good to leave moderation up to the experts...people paid to deal with insulting/childish people. because let me tell you when a huge nerf comes down.........and it will.....it always does in mmos.....i wouldn't want to be a volunteer mod on a fansite trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun!
http://www.soesucks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10
So basically, you want a company to tell its paying customers that if they have any problems with their product to just Google the answer instead of providing the help themselves?
I'm sure that would go over really well in any other industry. I mean, just imagine a car company telling people that if they have any technical issues with their brand new, just-off-the-showroom-floor model, that they should just Google about the issue because Google provides better answers than they can as the manufacturer. Don't you see how nonsensical that is?
It's the same thing with MMO's. People need to stop treating these games as somehow exempt from basic customer service just because they're online. You may never use the official forums. That's great. But they should exist, if for no other reason than to give paying customers a direct line to the developers, and to give some sort of transparency to potential customers who might be interested in the game.
Wow, look at all these people who ignore 99% of what someone posts and target one line that may not make sense. Then they blow it up so the poster looks stupid.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
basic customer service is a direct line to the support, not a forum, look at the tech forums of running games, it's hard to find a dev answer on the eq2, l2 and cox tech board, on the wow board you'll see one every 15 threads, the only real dev threads you'll see are the stickies, and for those we sure as hell won't need a forum. there is no difference between the current technical support boards and fansite/google help, forums are not there for a straight line to the devs in case of problems, they're just not.
I prefer to have factual information about a game rather than flames... but maybe that's just me. I'm not sure which section of EQ2 flames it is that you think is better than official forums.. maybe the forum titled "your guild sucks"?? or maybe the "rate a retard" forum... I guess all the information I need could be hidden in one of the 42 threads in the "guides, instructions and walkthroughs" section. Just as a point of reference, there are 456 threads in "rate-a-retard" and 99 in "your guild sucks"... good thing fan forums don't ever turn in to cesspools themselves.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
i am right now searching for the guides-forum on the official eq2 boards, oh my, i can't find it, maybe it is because most of those aren't classified in such a forum.
i've played eq2 for 3 years in a server dominating raidguild and have followed both boards over these years, eq2flames only since it actually started, so unless you can tell me you have played in any kind of more min-maxing fashion than high end raiding over that time, just accept that you can't win this argument over eq2 boards.
Forums are there for obvious reason.
a) find information and help from fellow players and developers.
b) Say your opinion and feeling about the game
MMO forums are here for obvious reasons. We all see it cause its not related to any one game.
But... WAR forums would NOT have such forums. Its up to the devs to CONTROL the discussion on the forums to build up the game on positive grounds. If they dont think they can't they are obviously not able to bring out the game that players were hoping for.
You can crap all over wow but at least they are honest - they allow the custimors to talk and they deal with things when needed.
Now here is the big deal.
Having no official forums is very bad for the custimors. Not because they can not rant about stupid things - But because they can NOT find about some of the really important issues that are going on - game breaking factors that makes the custimors powerless when they stand on their own but very powerfull when they find out there are alot of other players having same problems.
Lets take an example shall we. Just a simple one that not only might come up but WILL come up.
Connection problems.
No offical forums = Every single custimor will not be able to get a clear picture of whats going on. The game developer will NOT take the side of the custimor and will ignore the problems as long as possible. This is what is even happening on OFFICAL forums. But the power of the players solves it.
Offical forums. Players realise that more players are having simualre problems. They will see an obvious pattern and in the NUMBERS they are able to force the issue. Not in terms of crappy game blance or poor buggy game - but a perfectly reasonable aspect that an ONLINE computer game should be able to provide. And you guys REALLY think that the WAR will be honest about these problems when even open official forums like wow can't ?
THis is where the Custimors should have the power - NOT the company that is taking money for SERVICE that they can not provide. There is a SUB payed for a reason.
http://www.soesucks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10
Sorry to bring WoW into the mix here, but the main reason why I never went to their official forums is:
A) I found all i needed on external sites such as Thottbot and Wowhead
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
I'm sure they wouldn't notice 10k people suddenly not being able to connect for 3 months.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I have no problem finding a guide on the EQ2 forums. Just as a test, I had my 10 year old son try to find a guide to his class on the EQ2 forums. It took him under a minute. I asked him to find a guide for noobs, and again he was capable of navigating to a suitable guide in less than a minute.
If you are incapable of grasping the concept of categorized information, that is a shame... but with as many guides as are available on that forum, it would be a little chaotic to just shove them all in a "Guides" folder. You want a general gameplay guide, check the gameplay section. Need a class guide, check the top of the forum dedicated to your class. Who wants to venture a guess on where to find Tradeskill guides?? Oh.. there they are, stickied to the top of the tradeskill forum. If you need to find something really obscure, or just have no idea what category your query fall under, there is a handy dandy search function... even a blank at the top of every page to search that topic or forum. Damn handy feature, IMO.
As to your second paragraph... I'm not sure what the size of your e-peen has to do with the topic of the worthiness of official forums, but just FYI. If you think that little monologue about your server dominating high end min-maxing raidguild make you look cool, or somehow more credible than anyone else... it doesn't. It kinda makes you look like a dick....
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
oh they would notice....as long as nobody complained in the official forums they wouldn't fix it!
http://www.soesucks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10
So if they noticed they'd risk 10k people cancelling their subs cuz they couldn't connect for 3 months?
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
Err, since Telia is an external problem this is not strange is it? That's not blizzard's problem as far as I know?
Also when was this cause I never experienced this from the Netherlands, although it couldve been during my break.
And yes - it took 3 MONTHS to get it fixed.
Probably wouldn't been fixed at all if not only 10k ppl but ALOT more could directly prove it had NOTHING to do with their connection - but still they paid full price for the game.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
Err, since Telia is an external problem this is not strange is it? That's not blizzard's problem as far as I know?
Also when was this cause I never experienced this from the Netherlands, although it couldve been during my break.
If Telia doesn't have the decency to step up and admit, to 10,000 people, that it was their fault, that's their problem. But what does that have to do with official WAR forums?
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Oh you mean game breaking news when I was unable to conect to the game on peak hours for 3 months cause Telia screwed up in Europe? Sorry - didn't notice that in the breaking news part. But it got fixed when over 10 k ppl pushed for fix!
Err, since Telia is an external problem this is not strange is it? That's not blizzard's problem as far as I know?
Also when was this cause I never experienced this from the Netherlands, although it couldve been during my break.
Telia is not EXTERNAL problem m8. Its offical Network supplier in whole of Europe. Offical as in Blizzard pays them for deliviering EVERY single player in Europe to be able to play the game. Official as in they get PAYED from BLizzard for providing that service. But you are Obviously trying to use the same bull that Blizzard did for the first month.
"It has nothing to do with us"
Oh ye... really !!!
Make a game and sell it all over the world - then provide service that dont reach to all they custimors that bought the game... Yes - wonder if you already got a job in a MMO enviroment m8.
Ohh that guys said you can find class guide on the classboards. HE said that , you must have not read it.
However, he did attack the guild forums.
oh they would notice....as long as nobody complained in the official forums they wouldn't fix it!
You realize that they have tech support right? (faq, sumbit issue and LIVE chat) you don't think 10k people bashing tech support would draw their attention. Right no offense but you don't seem to even think about this logically. all your arguements are they will not notice. Well if 10k people more started bashing your tech support all with the same issue you would notice.
Ill say it again , so far the official forums of wow are the worse place to get help. google does a much better job, as if the problem is fixable by the player, IT IS THE PLAYERS who are finding a fix for the problem and then later Mod.s who pass it along. If you can personally fix the problem then , it DOESN'T REALLY MATTER ANYWAY. As the best you can do is wait for DEV.s to fix the issue.
"And yes - it took 3 MONTHS to get it fixed. "
This is the best ever so you had offical forums but wait , what good did they do you? 3 months is not well at least it got fixed , due to official forums 3 months is the Mod.s and DEv.s didn't LISTEN TO US DESPITE OFFICIAL FORUMS. Denining this would be out right crazy as Mods. Dev.s and tech guys just ignored 10k people for 3 months. Of course 10k people in that time could post a post everday and the other 5 million players copuld make those post vanish into thin air, 10k really not that many.
However, if 10k people hit their techlines, chat rooms , and submitted issues, with them every day it would be VERY hard to ignore due to the fact that it would acctually TAX their tech support system , which was not made to handle 100k requests a day liek official forums are.
The simple logistics of it Proves that tech people will notice such issues at a higher rate with the live and active tech support system over a FFA official forum system.
The entire tech support issue is FAR IN FAVOR OF MYTHIC SYSTEM AND NOT WOWS.
However, arguing just on the basis of one community to talk as gameheads well i'll leave you to decided what system is better. But its clear .
Active tech support>>>> than Official forums for Tech issues. its a given yet there are people here who are areguing the opposed and that my friend is odd.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
OK, Whiners, stop the crying. EA never said there would be no WAR forums. There will be MOD only forums. That is open to change later. There will be official channels for you to report bugs and exploits, so be happy.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."