You are right a lot of games fail to deliver but WoW is not one of them. LOTRO is unfortunately.
Meh, after playing WoW for 2 and a half years I see it reversed. But that is the essence off all of this, to EACH THEIR OWN!
For me WoW failed to deliver on many fronts, refusing to fix AV BG from the obvious Alliance advantages was just one of many.
They key is at this point LoTRO is providing me entertainment and fun once again. I, once again, recommend that people at least download the trial and play for 7 days. Nothing lost if you choose to move on, much more gained if you find value for your dollar as I did.
I played wow from when it was release. I loved that game, before TBC pvp was fun even after TBC came out I still played it up until 1 month ago. The pvp is very fun and nicely done imo, end game is kinda hard for me to sit and waste all night raiding that's kinda boring (for me). I played lotro in the beta and 2 months after release then went back to wow up until 1 month ago like I said. I picked back up my lotro toon and really enjoy it now much more then wow. There's way more of a story and I feel like I'm actually fighting for something when I do raid which doesn't take all night and don't have to do all the time. The quests are more then just go here kill X many things. Again don't get me wrong I played wow for a very long time and grinded arena,bgs and did some raiding but it just seemed like after every patch it was the same old stuff over and over and lost it's shine just took me a while to see it start to fade. With lotro they are adding new content with new books for free and coming out with a new x-pac soon. Yes wow has a new x-pac coming out soon also but after a month and the new areas where off I'm sure it will seem like the same thing just new gear and more bgs,raid grinding.
Second if you say LOTRO is the most polished mmo you ever have played then you must not have played to many mmos. I would bet you are new to LOTRO. You talk about it like all the new players do. Your whopping 3 posts may speak to your experience. Wow, three baseless presumptions to dismiss the OP's opinion right out of the gate. Never a good way to start a rebuttal... not if you want to be taken seriously anyway. However I hardly logged on in months with some hope that my most anticipated mmo would somehow magically transform into the game it could have been. "The game it could have been", "The game it should have been"... How many times have we seen people make this comment now? No one person has a monopoly on how the game "should have been". Let's restate it so it has more credibility and is more reasonable, shall we? The game isn't the way *you personally* wanted/expected it to be. To presume (yet again) that you know how the game "could" have been is bordering on arrogance.
It is the game it is. Unfortunately, it didn't meet your personal expectations. However, do not mistake your personal (or others') expectations as some "standard" for what Turbine should have done with the game. Funny thing, that kiddie game WoW, I am still playing and have since beta. Well then wouldn't the logical thing be to stick to WoW since it delivers on what you're looking for? Whether you like WoW or not, most will say WoW is one of the most polished mmos ever. That is why so many play it. Well that's just naive generalization. There are *many* reasons people play WoW. From the start, Warcraft has a huge built-in fanbase. There are many who would play anything Warcraft simply because they're fans of the series. Second, Blizzard themself is a popular and highly regarded developer known for, as you stated, creating polished games. Thirdly, WoW is an easy game to play with a considerably low challenge level (arguably until you get to end-game, it seems). Lastly, there's a phenomenon effect at play. People are drawn to something simply because it's popular and they want to "be part of it". Think Cabbage Patch Kids, Tickle Me Elmo, Furbies, and so forth. People who'd never even *heard* of those before went nuts trying to get their hands on them because they were "the thing to have". I've met/talked to many people who had never heard of Warcrfaft *or* MMOs before, who picked up WoW because it was a phenomenon. It is the king of polish not LOTRO. Oh yea, why did you have to start your post by insulting WoW players?
Yeah, I agree, the OP's slam on WoW players was also generalization and unnecessary. It's not entirely unfounded either. Not *all* players are like that of course - but a considerable population in WoW certainly deserves that description. Two words: Barrens Chat.
In fact it offers nothing new to mmos. LOTRO is a good game.
Few MMOs do. Although, LoTRO does bring some unique twists into the genre - Session Play, an extensive music system, their implementation of PvP to name a few. Maybe they don't appeal to everyone - but they're still something new and are there for those who do enjoy them.
You are right a lot of games fail to deliver but WoW is not one of them. LOTRO is unfortunately. Opinion.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I too agree, for the most part, with Die_Scream. LOTRO is a good MMO in it own right. Not perfect but good. It can stand with about any MMO out there. It has blemishes which one could over look as they don't detract from the game. Some blemishes to some people are going to be "bad" and some are going to be acceptable. For me, or anyone, you get what you pay for and what are willing to put up with.
I have a life time subscription to LOTR but I have tried playing it and it is boring. I guess I need to give it another chance but so far it is like all the MMO's I have been playing. Soloing is difficult, finding a group is difficult and aggro is bad. Oh well maybe one day there will be a more balanced game until then LOTR is glood but there are others that are good too.
Second if you say LOTRO is the most polished mmo you ever have played then you must not have played to many mmos. I would bet you are new to LOTRO. You talk about it like all the new players do. Your whopping 3 posts may speak to your experience. Wow, three baseless presumptions to dismiss the OP's opinion right out of the gate. Never a good way to start a rebuttal... not if you want to be taken seriously anyway. However I hardly logged on in months with some hope that my most anticipated mmo would somehow magically transform into the game it could have been. "The game it could have been", "The game it should have been"... How many times have we seen people make this comment now? No one person has a monopoly on how the game "should have been". Let's restate it so it has more credibility and is more reasonable, shall we? The game isn't the way *you personally* wanted/expected it to be. To presume (yet again) that you know how the game "could" have been is bordering on arrogance.
It is the game it is. Unfortunately, it didn't meet your personal expectations. However, do not mistake your personal (or others') expectations as some "standard" for what Turbine should have done with the game. Funny thing, that kiddie game WoW, I am still playing and have since beta. Well then wouldn't the logical thing be to stick to WoW since what it gives you what you're looking for? Whether you like WoW or not, most will say WoW is one of the most polished mmos ever. That is why so many play it. Well that's just naive generalization. There are *many* reasons people play WoW. From the start, Warcraft has a huge built-in fanbase. There are many who would play anything Warcraft simply because they're fans of the series. Second, Blizzard themself is a popular and highly regarded developer known for, as you stated, creating polished games. Thirdly, WoW is an easy game to play with a considerably low challenge level (arguably until you get to end-game, it seems). Lastly, there's a phenomenon effect at play. People are drawn to something simply because it's popular and they want to "be part of it". Think Cabbage Patch Kids, Tickle Me Elmo, Furbies, and so forth. People who'd never even *heard* of those before went nuts trying to get their hands on them because they were "the thing to have". I've met/talked to many people who had never heard of Warcrfaft *or* MMOs before, who picked up WoW because it was a phenomenon. It is the king of polish not LOTRO. Oh yea, why did you have to start your post by insulting WoW players?
Yeah, I agree, the OP's slam on WoW players was also generalization and unnecessary. It's not entirely unfounded either. Not *all* players are like that of course - but a considerable population in WoW certainly deserves that description. Two words: Barrens Chat.
In fact it offers nothing new to mmos. LOTRO is a good game.
Few MMOs do. Although, LoTRO does bring some unique twists into the genre - Session Play, an extensive music system, their implementation of PvP to name a few. Maybe they don't appeal to everyone - but they're still something new and are there for those who do enjoy them.
You are right a lot of games fail to deliver but WoW is not one of them. LOTRO is unfortunately. Opinion.
You kind of missed the point. I was writing in generalizations and with an insulting tone to other mmo players, much like the OP. After all your long thought out replies you finally got it in one word at the end "Opinion". Could have saved yourself a whole lot of time by just typing that after you quote my ovbiously generalized reply fill with presumptions. You see, that was the point. Reread the OP the point might be clearer.
I come here to talk about mmos and be entertained by the range of relies. You have a history of long replies pointing out flaws in others posts. That seems to be your enjoyment here. Which is great, makes for a good read. However I think most of the people who post here are pretty smart and can see flaws, sarcasm, humor, trolling, etc, etc, etc. on their own. If you decide to reply could you use red for your relies rather the light blue. Red will make it seem more exciting!
WSIMike isn't alone then... I missed the point as well eccoton. Glad you cleared it up though.
Heh... I'm not a big fan of the red for replies myself. I like to use red to highlight a particular phrase or sentence... but not the whole reply.
Oh, I forgot to ask the first time. Was it just a generlization, or sarcasm when the OP was asked if LoTRo was his first MMO because he thought LoTRo was the most polished?
I ask because I also think that LoTRo is the most polished MMO out currently... and I've been playing MMOs since 1997. So, I for one would be interested in this list of MMOs that is MORE polished than LoTRo. And then, yes... we can let the readers decide who is correct.
I played wow from when it was release. I loved that game, before TBC pvp was fun even after TBC came out I still played it up until 1 month ago. The pvp is very fun and nicely done imo, end game is kinda hard for me to sit and waste all night raiding that's kinda boring (for me). I played lotro in the beta and 2 months after release then went back to wow up until 1 month ago like I said. I picked back up my lotro toon and really enjoy it now much more then wow. There's way more of a story and I feel like I'm actually fighting for something when I do raid which doesn't take all night and don't have to do all the time. The quests are more then just go here kill X many things. Again don't get me wrong I played wow for a very long time and grinded arena,bgs and did some raiding but it just seemed like after every patch it was the same old stuff over and over and lost it's shine just took me a while to see it start to fade. With lotro they are adding new content with new books for free and coming out with a new x-pac soon. Yes wow has a new x-pac coming out soon also but after a month and the new areas where off I'm sure it will seem like the same thing just new gear and more bgs,raid grinding.
Excellent post.
I can no longer stand WOW for the same reasons as many of you, i.e. that it's just one big grind for better gear, the total focus on raids/instanced pvp, the lack of feature such as housing, and finally just the general atmosphere/community. There's a lot of things that make LOTRO so much more enjoyable. The friendly/casual atmosphere, the incredible graphics, the attention to detail and immersion from things like being able to play music, the LOTR setting, the story-based questing, being able to craft lots of powerful items, etc etc.
And you know, LOTRO will probably never have the numbers that WoW does, and I'm glad of it. There's just something about playing an MMO with millions and millions of subscribers... you become meaningless. I've actually chatted with Turbine developers in their IRC dev chats, and they will also respond to PM's sent to them on the lotro forum. LOTRO seems to be at a happy medium where the game is very healthy, but it's not insane.
But even as big of a fan of LOTRO as I am, I think it's pretty ridiculous to claim that LOTRO is as polished as WOW. In fact that's absurd. WOW set the bar very high, and while LOTRO did a good job compared to other mmo's there are still a ton of areas that need further polish. The UI is one of those areas. Turbine admits this themselves. They are using a 10 year old user interface code and are developing a completely new one for LOTRO in the expansion. There are also still some pathing issues. The LFG tool is terrible (new one coming this month in book 13). At release, the classes were all missing skills from 40-50. There are still lots of class and racial traits that are useless or poorly designed. These are all polish issues, but Turbine is doing a good job of addressing them. In the long run this game is just going to keep getting better and better as the finish polishing it and keep expanding it. I honestly can't even fathom all of the potential that LOTRO has.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~ LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
But even as big of a fan of LOTRO as I am, I think it's pretty ridiculous to claim that LOTRO is as polished as WOW. In fact that's absurd. WOW set the bar very high, and while LOTRO did a good job compared to other mmo's there are still a ton of areas that need further polish. The UI is one of those areas. Turbine admits this themselves. They are using a 10 year old user interface code and are developing a completely new one for LOTRO in the expansion. There are also still some pathing issues. The LFG tool is terrible (new one coming this month in book 13). At release, the classes were all missing skills from 40-50. There are still lots of class and racial traits that are useless or poorly designed. These are all polish issues, but Turbine is doing a good job of addressing them. In the long run this game is just going to keep getting better and better as the finish polishing it and keep expanding it. I honestly can't even fathom all of the potential that LOTRO has.
I agree with this post, but that which impresses me the most about this community is how it can critique the game without bashing. I mean what other game out there is appreciate and the player are excited about upcomming additions and changes?
I just wished the anti-league of LoTRO would at least create a dialogue without the bashing and more the critiquing.
I come here to talk about mmos and be entertained by the range of relies. You have a history of long replies pointing out flaws in others posts. That seems to be your enjoyment here. Which is great, makes for a good read. However I think most of the people who post here are pretty smart and can see flaws, sarcasm, humor, trolling, etc, etc, etc. on their own. If you decide to reply could you use red for your relies rather the light blue. Red will make it seem more exciting!
I wouldn't say I "failed" to get your point, or catch your sarcasm. I'd say you failed pretty thoroughly to convey either.
There is absolutely nothing in your post that I quoted or responded to that indicates anything you are claiming it does. There's no use of quotes, or obvious exaggeration or anything of the sort to indicate anything you say in your post is at all sarcastic or facetious. Not even a follow-up like "See what I did there?", or (/sarcasm off).
I'm sure you realize that in text, the tone or intent of a statement, including sarcasm, is easily lost without any such qualifier.
Had you done more to make your intended tone more obvious, not I nor likely anyone else would have missed it.
For the record, yes, I do tend to call people out for what they say in their posts (or on what they say in real life). Not so much out of "enjoyment" though. I loathe intellectual dishonesty, blatant/blind bias and spin-doctoring (little wonder I stopped listening to politicians or taking them seriously).
I did get the condescension and sarcasm in your "you should use red" statement. Unfortunately, it was a pretty weak attempt.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I have a life time subscription to LOTR but I have tried playing it and it is boring. I guess I need to give it another chance but so far it is like all the MMO's I have been playing. Soloing is difficult, finding a group is difficult and aggro is bad. Oh well maybe one day there will be a more balanced game until then LOTR is glood but there are others that are good too.
Finding a group is hard but they are fixing that soon I agree with that part. You can get aggro easy by not being careful yes I agree, yet that's another plus about this game. In wow you'll have to admit the quests and getting from place to place is pretty simple, the only thing you have to worry about is other players if you're on a pvp server. Myself I like more of a challenge, quests send you into tough areas, instances are hard and lotro requires more skill ( and or is more of a challenge) imo and your post backs that up .
Let me first say I am not a WoW player at all. I like the Warcraft games and I gave it a try, it was ok. I also gave the LoTR a try. I don't see how you can start this thread by saying all the people blinded by WoW should come over to this game. When the engine and the overall look of the game is clearly derivative of WoW. As soon as I started playing it I was like...hmmmm...it's awfully similar to WoW. Now I will agree that the community, storyline, pvp, etc is totally different. But the base look of the game is so damn near close I am not sure how Turbine didn't get sued. Look at the shop and the menu screens. The bubbles are the same, fonts are the same, when you target enemies it looks the same. You could almost say it's WoW with LoTR on the box. I'm not trashing the game at all I'm just stating that it seems they went with what they thought worked for WoW and didn't bother making a game that was more......for lack of a better word......Tolkienish.
And no the text and the storylines are not enough for it to be Tolkienish. Something is missing from the overall experience.
Originally posted by Wrymstrum But even as big of a fan of LOTRO as I am, I think it's pretty ridiculous to claim that LOTRO is as polished as WOW. In fact that's absurd. WOW set the bar very high, and while LOTRO did a good job compared to other mmo's there are still a ton of areas that need further polish. The UI is one of those areas. Turbine admits this themselves. They are using a 10 year old user interface code and are developing a completely new one for LOTRO in the expansion. There are also still some pathing issues. The LFG tool is terrible (new one coming this month in book 13). At release, the classes were all missing skills from 40-50. There are still lots of class and racial traits that are useless or poorly designed. These are all polish issues, but Turbine is doing a good job of addressing them. In the long run this game is just going to keep getting better and better as the finish polishing it and keep expanding it. I honestly can't even fathom all of the potential that LOTRO has.
Yeah, LoTRO does have some things that make me think "huh?" from time to time. As you mentioned - the pathing issues that, at least to me, seem to have gotten a bit worse lately. Not sure what they did that goofed it up, but I know it wasn't always like that. A mob standing 10' from me with nothing but open land between us should not have those ?'s over its head.
I read the same about the interface revamp. I think that's awesome. Though I don't think they're going to be creating an entire new interface. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, functionally, as it is; least I haven't found anything irksome yet. I think they're reprogramming it from the ground up so they can expand on it more than the current code will allow.
Newtek did the same with their Lightwave3D software. After version 5, iirc, they decided to reprogram the software from the ground up because they'd hit a "wall" in what the old code would allow them to do. It's a smart move that can bring a variety of improvements; possibly an overall performance increase if the current code is less efficient than it could be.
Overall, I can't say any issue I have with LoTRO impedes my enjoyment of it. I notice them and they are frustrating at times - but for me at least - they're not game-breaking.
As for WoW - again... I personally don't enjoy the game. I tried.. I gave it even one chance more than I was going to, at the urge of a real-life friend who felt I hadn't really "seen the good stuff" and wanted to help me get to more of it. It didn't last long. However, to say WoW isn't polished is just ridiculous. It's a Blizzard game. For the most part, Blizzard = Polished Games; like them or not.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The combat animations/dynamics/feeling is so bad in this game, it makes the whole game boring to play.
I have much more fun playing even the f2p grinders; the Asians just know how to do it. All mmos are grinds. Grinding mobs or grinding quests is the same. What makes the difference is the combat. If the combat is fun then the game is fun to play. If combat is boring the game is boring.
Imho they missed 2 things with this game to make it awesome:
1. good combat animations/dynamics/feeling. When you hit something you should feel it, it should be fun to fight. Why didn't they do it like in DDO ? Playing a fighter in DDO is great. When you hit with your sword its fast with some great sound and it HITS, you feel it.... In lotro its just plain fluff.....
2. open world pvp, with 2 sides in the world. Players should be able to play trolls, etc... on 1 side of the world. In the middle there should somewhere be some kind of border zone with auto-spawning npc guard (number depending on the number of attackers) to push the enemy back so it can't invade the other side of the world (to be in accordance with the lotro lore).
2. open world pvp, with 2 sides in the world. Players should be able to play trolls, etc... on 1 side of the world. In the middle there should somewhere be some kind of border zone with auto-spawning npc guard (number depending on the number of attackers) to push the enemy back so it can't invade the other side of the world (to be in accordance with the lotro lore).
Ummm that describes Monster play, you do realize this right?
2. open world pvp, with 2 sides in the world. Players should be able to play trolls, etc... on 1 side of the world. In the middle there should somewhere be some kind of border zone with auto-spawning npc guard (number depending on the number of attackers) to push the enemy back so it can't invade the other side of the world (to be in accordance with the lotro lore).
Ummm that describes Monster play, you do realize this right?
No, you should try to play the game. Monster play is just a small instance which you can enter temporarily playing another character than your own. You don't have 2 sides at war on the server, fighting against each other.
This kind of pvp would add so much more purpose to pvp, you would have something to look forward when improving and leveling your character.
edit: -> what they now have as "monster play" should be 1 half of the server player base, on 1 half of the world size with its own quests, etc... The enemy can then constantly try to invade the other side, but of course npc guards will allways spawn to push them back. But in this middle grounds there should be some area/forts or some thing to win, until the other side gets it back again. This is like what they implemented in Shaiya, it makes for some of the best pvp in mmos. You have 2 sides with their own pve game play, and in the middle ground you have several maps where you have pvp wars, with each side trying to invade the other.
This adds a completely different dimension to pvp, to character improvement, to guilds, to things to look foraward to in the game in general.
Let me first say I am not a WoW player at all. I like the Warcraft games and I gave it a try, it was ok. I also gave the LoTR a try. I don't see how you can start this thread by saying all the people blinded by WoW should come over to this game. When the engine and the overall look of the game is clearly derivative of WoW. As soon as I started playing it I was like...hmmmm...it's awfully similar to WoW. Now I will agree that the community, storyline, pvp, etc is totally different. But the base look of the game is so damn near close I am not sure how Turbine didn't get sued. Look at the shop and the menu screens. The bubbles are the same, fonts are the same, when you target enemies it looks the same. You could almost say it's WoW with LoTR on the box. I'm not trashing the game at all I'm just stating that it seems they went with what they thought worked for WoW and didn't bother making a game that was more......for lack of a better word......Tolkienish.
*Strongly* disagree with you here.
First, I do not understand how one can look at LoTRO, then look at WoW and think they look the same.
Honestly, how does that look remotely like anything in WoW? It's an entirely different art and rendering style. WoW has a more stylized cartoonish look. LoTRO has a quasi-realistic style; they use photo-sourced textures for some surfaces.
If you're referring to the interface, to be fair - and this has already been well-debated in the past, so I'm not going to go into full detail again, but LoTRO's interface is a direct "descendent", if you will, of Asheron's Call 2, which was developed and released before WoW. And even then, the interface wasn't "invented by", nor unique to AC2. Point is, Turbine has not copied it from WoW.
The same basic interface/controls have been used in MMOs for a while. It works well and, since players are used to it already, they don't have to spend much, if any, time learning the interface before they can really start playing. The axiom, "don't fix it if it isn't broken" applies well here.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They didn't add a evil side to the game you can play because it went "against" the lore. This game isn't heavy on pvp that's not the main purpose of this game. Games like wow are mostly about pvp with random instances you can do that don't mean anything until end game. Lotro is game that you should enjoy when you level, there's a story to follow and the instances you look towards. Lotro for me "felt" more real then wow or other free games I've played, the graphics are amazing "if" you have the rig to run it with setting high. Combat isn't as fast paced as wow and others but that's what makes it feel more real also. I don't understand how you can say you don't "feel" like your hitting anything I have a 50 champion and I can feel it fine lol
I dare anyone to dispute your post.. Anytime I've been in a LOTRO WoW dispute, I show them screenshots of lotro and ac2.. they have never had anything to say about it in return
But if only you didn't choose such ugly ac2 and lotro screenies
No, you should try to play the game. Monster play is just a small instance which you can enter temporarily playing another character than your own. You don't have 2 sides at war on the server, fighting against each other. Ummmm you should read the lore than, and understand why you can't have two sides to the war. Turbine found a happy medium with monster play that did not break agreements with Tolkien enterprise and their enforcement of the lore. If Turbine breaks lore and goes outside of the agreements Christopher Tolkien can sue and get all rights to his father's story. Perfect balance system, Christopher keeps Tolkien Enterprises in check and because of the cash cow it is for TE, they keep Turbine in check.
This kind of pvp would add so much more purpose to pvp, you would have something to look forward when improving and leveling your character. Again read the lore, read the history, and understand why it was written as a children's book. Turbine found a medium to bring PvP for those unhappy people that have a need to gank in order to build a self esteem. Why can't people be happy with that? Seems those few that cry how the game "SuXXors" will not be happy until we add flying cars, time warp machines, and resident evil zombies into the mix. Funny thing is then they will be the first to leave screaming how Turbine broke the lore. edit: -> what they now have as "monster play" should be 1 half of the server player base, on 1 half of the world size with its own quests, etc... The enemy can then constantly try to invade the other side, but of course npc guards will allways spawn to push them back. But in this middle grounds there should be some area/forts or some thing to win, until the other side gets it back again. This is like what they implemented in Shaiya, it makes for some of the best pvp in mmos. You have 2 sides with their own pve game play, and in the middle ground you have several maps where you have pvp wars, with each side trying to invade the other. PvP with heavy structure like that will never work. There is not point in playing a side war without being able to defeat the other side, including capitals or major strategy points. Because if you stonewall one side or the other they will cry for a while then move on to another game that has meaningful pvp. What you describe as should be is so much like WoW it isn't funny. Not all of us want to play WoW, and besides they have plenty of room on their servers.
This adds a completely different dimension to pvp, to character improvement, to guilds, to things to look foraward to in the game in general. But thankfully Turbine has been strict to say this is NOT a pvp game. I am actually happy to see they found a way to provide pvp without breaking PVE gaming. And btw I took your advice and played the game, I have been for a month now so maybe I kinda had a handle on it? But thanks for the advice!!!!!
2. open world pvp, with 2 sides in the world. Players should be able to play trolls, etc... on 1 side of the world. In the middle there should somewhere be some kind of border zone with auto-spawning npc guard (number depending on the number of attackers) to push the enemy back so it can't invade the other side of the world (to be in accordance with the lotro lore). That, would be awesome. Too bad they missed it...
They didn't "miss" anything - that's a very poor characterization.
LoTRO was never intended to be and was not designed or advertised as a PvP MMO.
PvMP was implemented as a side activity for those who enjoy competing against other live players (ie. PvP) without affecting the core PvE game in the process. Open world PvP would not suit LoTRO for reasons that have been discussed and debated into the ground already.
That said, the "limited PvP" did not stop a Creep raid group I was in from fighting a "Freep" raid group - non-stop for 6+ hours straight last night and having a great time. And that's not at all untypical. We were all over the map, fighting to defend and/or take keeps/camps... There was every bit as much strategy (offensive and defensive), misdirection, scouting/spying, use of terrain, etc. as I've ever seen in any other PvP setting. It was a blast.
But hey.. to each their own. In the end, if it's so-called "hardcore Open PvP" you want, you're not going to find it in LoTRO. Not because it's "missing"... but because it was never intended in the first place.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I dare anyone to dispute your post.. Anytime I've been in a LOTRO WoW dispute, I show them screenshots of lotro and ac2.. they have never had anything to say about it in return
But if only you didn't choose such ugly ac2 and lotro screenies
Meh... I already had them uploaded, so it was convenient. Didn't feel like digging through the ridiculously huge collection on my drive. Plenty of places one can find better shots if they wanted to - the official website has plenty.
The AC2 shot was the first one I found in a google search. Again, didn't feel like scouring the 'net for a prettier one (though I know there are better ones).
Either way, the point is illustrated .
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They didn't add a evil side to the game you can play because it went "against" the lore. Actually from my courses and personal study I feel it is just the opposite. The reality is unless Christopher reveals the essence of the agreeement with Tolkien Enterprises and what his father taught him about writing the book, we will never really know for sure. Tolkien worked with children, so he created a fantasy story where the good guys will win but not at the cost of the horror that you wack off someones head. While Tolkien served as an officer in WW1 he saw enough of that to never wish that story on any child, and that was the time he began to write LoTR even though is was not completed until 1932. The lore is about that common story of good vs evil but with the child in mind, providing the child a story line that enabled him/her to know they could overcome evil, thy he could be the hero, and that dreams are the essence of life, if only they try.
Lotro is game that you should enjoy when you level, there's a story to follow and the instances you look towards. And that I agree too, the story is what it is all about. The game play is the icing on the cake.
Comments
Meh, after playing WoW for 2 and a half years I see it reversed. But that is the essence off all of this, to EACH THEIR OWN!
For me WoW failed to deliver on many fronts, refusing to fix AV BG from the obvious Alliance advantages was just one of many.
They key is at this point LoTRO is providing me entertainment and fun once again. I, once again, recommend that people at least download the trial and play for 7 days. Nothing lost if you choose to move on, much more gained if you find value for your dollar as I did.
I played wow from when it was release. I loved that game, before TBC pvp was fun even after TBC came out I still played it up until 1 month ago. The pvp is very fun and nicely done imo, end game is kinda hard for me to sit and waste all night raiding that's kinda boring (for me). I played lotro in the beta and 2 months after release then went back to wow up until 1 month ago like I said. I picked back up my lotro toon and really enjoy it now much more then wow. There's way more of a story and I feel like I'm actually fighting for something when I do raid which doesn't take all night and don't have to do all the time. The quests are more then just go here kill X many things. Again don't get me wrong I played wow for a very long time and grinded arena,bgs and did some raiding but it just seemed like after every patch it was the same old stuff over and over and lost it's shine just took me a while to see it start to fade. With lotro they are adding new content with new books for free and coming out with a new x-pac soon. Yes wow has a new x-pac coming out soon also but after a month and the new areas where off I'm sure it will seem like the same thing just new gear and more bgs,raid grinding.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I too agree, for the most part, with Die_Scream. LOTRO is a good MMO in it own right. Not perfect but good. It can stand with about any MMO out there. It has blemishes which one could over look as they don't detract from the game. Some blemishes to some people are going to be "bad" and some are going to be acceptable. For me, or anyone, you get what you pay for and what are willing to put up with.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I have a life time subscription to LOTR but I have tried playing it and it is boring. I guess I need to give it another chance but so far it is like all the MMO's I have been playing. Soloing is difficult, finding a group is difficult and aggro is bad. Oh well maybe one day there will be a more balanced game until then LOTR is glood but there are others that are good too.
Actually soloing in LOTRO is very easy.
You kind of missed the point. I was writing in generalizations and with an insulting tone to other mmo players, much like the OP. After all your long thought out replies you finally got it in one word at the end "Opinion". Could have saved yourself a whole lot of time by just typing that after you quote my ovbiously generalized reply fill with presumptions. You see, that was the point. Reread the OP the point might be clearer.
I come here to talk about mmos and be entertained by the range of relies. You have a history of long replies pointing out flaws in others posts. That seems to be your enjoyment here. Which is great, makes for a good read. However I think most of the people who post here are pretty smart and can see flaws, sarcasm, humor, trolling, etc, etc, etc. on their own. If you decide to reply could you use red for your relies rather the light blue. Red will make it seem more exciting!
WSIMike isn't alone then... I missed the point as well eccoton. Glad you cleared it up though.
Heh... I'm not a big fan of the red for replies myself. I like to use red to highlight a particular phrase or sentence... but not the whole reply.
Oh, I forgot to ask the first time. Was it just a generlization, or sarcasm when the OP was asked if LoTRo was his first MMO because he thought LoTRo was the most polished?
I ask because I also think that LoTRo is the most polished MMO out currently... and I've been playing MMOs since 1997. So, I for one would be interested in this list of MMOs that is MORE polished than LoTRo. And then, yes... we can let the readers decide who is correct.
Excellent post.
I can no longer stand WOW for the same reasons as many of you, i.e. that it's just one big grind for better gear, the total focus on raids/instanced pvp, the lack of feature such as housing, and finally just the general atmosphere/community. There's a lot of things that make LOTRO so much more enjoyable. The friendly/casual atmosphere, the incredible graphics, the attention to detail and immersion from things like being able to play music, the LOTR setting, the story-based questing, being able to craft lots of powerful items, etc etc.
And you know, LOTRO will probably never have the numbers that WoW does, and I'm glad of it. There's just something about playing an MMO with millions and millions of subscribers... you become meaningless. I've actually chatted with Turbine developers in their IRC dev chats, and they will also respond to PM's sent to them on the lotro forum. LOTRO seems to be at a happy medium where the game is very healthy, but it's not insane.
But even as big of a fan of LOTRO as I am, I think it's pretty ridiculous to claim that LOTRO is as polished as WOW. In fact that's absurd. WOW set the bar very high, and while LOTRO did a good job compared to other mmo's there are still a ton of areas that need further polish. The UI is one of those areas. Turbine admits this themselves. They are using a 10 year old user interface code and are developing a completely new one for LOTRO in the expansion. There are also still some pathing issues. The LFG tool is terrible (new one coming this month in book 13). At release, the classes were all missing skills from 40-50. There are still lots of class and racial traits that are useless or poorly designed. These are all polish issues, but Turbine is doing a good job of addressing them. In the long run this game is just going to keep getting better and better as the finish polishing it and keep expanding it. I honestly can't even fathom all of the potential that LOTRO has.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
I agree with this post, but that which impresses me the most about this community is how it can critique the game without bashing. I mean what other game out there is appreciate and the player are excited about upcomming additions and changes?
I just wished the anti-league of LoTRO would at least create a dialogue without the bashing and more the critiquing.
I wouldn't say I "failed" to get your point, or catch your sarcasm. I'd say you failed pretty thoroughly to convey either.
There is absolutely nothing in your post that I quoted or responded to that indicates anything you are claiming it does. There's no use of quotes, or obvious exaggeration or anything of the sort to indicate anything you say in your post is at all sarcastic or facetious. Not even a follow-up like "See what I did there?", or (/sarcasm off).
I'm sure you realize that in text, the tone or intent of a statement, including sarcasm, is easily lost without any such qualifier.
Had you done more to make your intended tone more obvious, not I nor likely anyone else would have missed it.
For the record, yes, I do tend to call people out for what they say in their posts (or on what they say in real life). Not so much out of "enjoyment" though. I loathe intellectual dishonesty, blatant/blind bias and spin-doctoring (little wonder I stopped listening to politicians or taking them seriously).
I did get the condescension and sarcasm in your "you should use red" statement. Unfortunately, it was a pretty weak attempt.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Finding a group is hard but they are fixing that soon I agree with that part. You can get aggro easy by not being careful yes I agree, yet that's another plus about this game. In wow you'll have to admit the quests and getting from place to place is pretty simple, the only thing you have to worry about is other players if you're on a pvp server. Myself I like more of a challenge, quests send you into tough areas, instances are hard and lotro requires more skill ( and or is more of a challenge) imo and your post backs that up
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When i played the trial up to 27, i must say. The game was pretty amazing. I really did enjoy myself a lot.
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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz
Let me first say I am not a WoW player at all. I like the Warcraft games and I gave it a try, it was ok. I also gave the LoTR a try. I don't see how you can start this thread by saying all the people blinded by WoW should come over to this game. When the engine and the overall look of the game is clearly derivative of WoW. As soon as I started playing it I was like...hmmmm...it's awfully similar to WoW. Now I will agree that the community, storyline, pvp, etc is totally different. But the base look of the game is so damn near close I am not sure how Turbine didn't get sued. Look at the shop and the menu screens. The bubbles are the same, fonts are the same, when you target enemies it looks the same. You could almost say it's WoW with LoTR on the box. I'm not trashing the game at all I'm just stating that it seems they went with what they thought worked for WoW and didn't bother making a game that was more......for lack of a better word......Tolkienish.
And no the text and the storylines are not enough for it to be Tolkienish. Something is missing from the overall experience.
Yeah, LoTRO does have some things that make me think "huh?" from time to time. As you mentioned - the pathing issues that, at least to me, seem to have gotten a bit worse lately. Not sure what they did that goofed it up, but I know it wasn't always like that. A mob standing 10' from me with nothing but open land between us should not have those ?'s over its head.
I read the same about the interface revamp. I think that's awesome. Though I don't think they're going to be creating an entire new interface. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, functionally, as it is; least I haven't found anything irksome yet. I think they're reprogramming it from the ground up so they can expand on it more than the current code will allow.
Newtek did the same with their Lightwave3D software. After version 5, iirc, they decided to reprogram the software from the ground up because they'd hit a "wall" in what the old code would allow them to do. It's a smart move that can bring a variety of improvements; possibly an overall performance increase if the current code is less efficient than it could be.
Overall, I can't say any issue I have with LoTRO impedes my enjoyment of it. I notice them and they are frustrating at times - but for me at least - they're not game-breaking.
As for WoW - again... I personally don't enjoy the game. I tried.. I gave it even one chance more than I was going to, at the urge of a real-life friend who felt I hadn't really "seen the good stuff" and wanted to help me get to more of it. It didn't last long. However, to say WoW isn't polished is just ridiculous. It's a Blizzard game. For the most part, Blizzard = Polished Games; like them or not.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The combat animations/dynamics/feeling is so bad in this game, it makes the whole game boring to play.
I have much more fun playing even the f2p grinders; the Asians just know how to do it. All mmos are grinds. Grinding mobs or grinding quests is the same. What makes the difference is the combat. If the combat is fun then the game is fun to play. If combat is boring the game is boring.
Imho they missed 2 things with this game to make it awesome:
1. good combat animations/dynamics/feeling. When you hit something you should feel it, it should be fun to fight. Why didn't they do it like in DDO ? Playing a fighter in DDO is great. When you hit with your sword its fast with some great sound and it HITS, you feel it.... In lotro its just plain fluff.....
2. open world pvp, with 2 sides in the world. Players should be able to play trolls, etc... on 1 side of the world. In the middle there should somewhere be some kind of border zone with auto-spawning npc guard (number depending on the number of attackers) to push the enemy back so it can't invade the other side of the world (to be in accordance with the lotro lore).
That, would be awesome. Too bad they missed it...
Ummm that describes Monster play, you do realize this right?
Ummm that describes Monster play, you do realize this right?
No, you should try to play the game. Monster play is just a small instance which you can enter temporarily playing another character than your own. You don't have 2 sides at war on the server, fighting against each other.
This kind of pvp would add so much more purpose to pvp, you would have something to look forward when improving and leveling your character.
edit: -> what they now have as "monster play" should be 1 half of the server player base, on 1 half of the world size with its own quests, etc... The enemy can then constantly try to invade the other side, but of course npc guards will allways spawn to push them back. But in this middle grounds there should be some area/forts or some thing to win, until the other side gets it back again. This is like what they implemented in Shaiya, it makes for some of the best pvp in mmos. You have 2 sides with their own pve game play, and in the middle ground you have several maps where you have pvp wars, with each side trying to invade the other.
This adds a completely different dimension to pvp, to character improvement, to guilds, to things to look foraward to in the game in general.
*Strongly* disagree with you here.
First, I do not understand how one can look at LoTRO, then look at WoW and think they look the same.
Some sample shots:
Shot 1
Shot 2
Shot 3
Shot4
Shot5
Shot 6
Honestly, how does that look remotely like anything in WoW? It's an entirely different art and rendering style. WoW has a more stylized cartoonish look. LoTRO has a quasi-realistic style; they use photo-sourced textures for some surfaces.
If you're referring to the interface, to be fair - and this has already been well-debated in the past, so I'm not going to go into full detail again, but LoTRO's interface is a direct "descendent", if you will, of Asheron's Call 2, which was developed and released before WoW. And even then, the interface wasn't "invented by", nor unique to AC2. Point is, Turbine has not copied it from WoW.
Here's a screenshot from AC2 illustrating this.
The same basic interface/controls have been used in MMOs for a while. It works well and, since players are used to it already, they don't have to spend much, if any, time learning the interface before they can really start playing. The axiom, "don't fix it if it isn't broken" applies well here.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They didn't add a evil side to the game you can play because it went "against" the lore. This game isn't heavy on pvp that's not the main purpose of this game. Games like wow are mostly about pvp with random instances you can do that don't mean anything until end game. Lotro is game that you should enjoy when you level, there's a story to follow and the instances you look towards. Lotro for me "felt" more real then wow or other free games I've played, the graphics are amazing "if" you have the rig to run it with setting high. Combat isn't as fast paced as wow and others but that's what makes it feel more real also. I don't understand how you can say you don't "feel" like your hitting anything I have a 50 champion and I can feel it fine lol
I dare anyone to dispute your post.. Anytime I've been in a LOTRO WoW dispute, I show them screenshots of lotro and ac2.. they have never had anything to say about it in return
But if only you didn't choose such ugly ac2 and lotro screenies
They didn't "miss" anything - that's a very poor characterization.
LoTRO was never intended to be and was not designed or advertised as a PvP MMO.
PvMP was implemented as a side activity for those who enjoy competing against other live players (ie. PvP) without affecting the core PvE game in the process. Open world PvP would not suit LoTRO for reasons that have been discussed and debated into the ground already.
That said, the "limited PvP" did not stop a Creep raid group I was in from fighting a "Freep" raid group - non-stop for 6+ hours straight last night and having a great time. And that's not at all untypical. We were all over the map, fighting to defend and/or take keeps/camps... There was every bit as much strategy (offensive and defensive), misdirection, scouting/spying, use of terrain, etc. as I've ever seen in any other PvP setting. It was a blast.
But hey.. to each their own. In the end, if it's so-called "hardcore Open PvP" you want, you're not going to find it in LoTRO. Not because it's "missing"... but because it was never intended in the first place.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Meh... I already had them uploaded, so it was convenient. Didn't feel like digging through the ridiculously huge collection on my drive. Plenty of places one can find better shots if they wanted to - the official website has plenty.
The AC2 shot was the first one I found in a google search. Again, didn't feel like scouring the 'net for a prettier one (though I know there are better ones).
Either way, the point is illustrated
.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops