I don't know what people mean with polish when they talk about PvP, but as far as balance is concerned it can takes quite some time to achieve in any MMO (if ever). It also depends on what the balance target is. 1vs1, small group skirmishes, big guild battles, castle sieging ... they all have different balance needs. Also early game balance and end game balance is a different ball game. If I could give an advise, I would suggest not to hold on to any soon-to-come game, nor fall victim to any hype machine, regardless from where it originates. There are good games out there, not perfect, but good enough to keep us entertained, until the newcomers can actually prove to be good alternatives. Hanging on to hype and unfulfilled expectations only leads to bitterness.
Skill Based= Auto Balance , skill based and well designed means that different skill builds will participate in such and not everyone playing the same set-up.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Tasos has said, you will be able to try Darkfall before you buy. This is a statement quoted many times on these forums correct? I dare anyone to name one MMO that you couldn't try before you bought. Every MMO in existance has had some form of a "free trial' and or "buddy keys". To say AoC and Funcom are in essence evil because they are forcing you to pay before you try is 100% untrue. No one is being forced to do anything. A fact that makes comments like Xris375' hilarious to me. It's a matter of perception. Tasos' statement no matter if DF is released or not is true, but it's true for all MMO's.
Okay so you can try it before you buy it. Very easy for Darkfall to promise a million things since the game is not real and not on the marketplace...
It's very easy to test those promises when the game releases for free. If it doesn't comply to your expectations, you don't buy. Remember the hype,the beta leaks you ignored, the 3 day headstart, the unique preorder only trinkets ? Remember Vanguard ? Never again I say.
That is only assuming the game gets released for free. The statement "try before you buy" doesn't guarantee a free release.
Your post where directed at the terrible DF fanbois, not this post. Good of you to admit it is a**es on all sides though. We are at an agreement on that. Buddy passes requires purcase and even if I don't have to pay for it, someone has to. That means a customer spend cash on something that should be free in the first place. No need to spend a buddy key on me though, I'm not your buddy after all
I will conveniently point to the second part of my second point. The Free Trials that games usually offer after release.
Please reply to the whole of my post next time instead of just selectively picking what suits you best.
And I am conveniently point to the fact that the buddy key is NOT free. I'n not the ony one being selective here...As for the "free trials that games offer after release" is just so far speculation on your part. If I am mistaken please link me where it says otherwise. Betas used to be free on Fileplanet as well, now you need to be a subscriber. Funcom is changing the rules and so far it hasn't been to the customer's advantage.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
BTW. I was in AoC PvP Beta Weekend and so far it was one of the best RPG gaming experience so far for me.(judging that the rest of the game is fun that way). You seen reports of Lag in a stress test beta? NO WAY!
As Zorvan already said I have played this game and I know it is a great game first handedly, and DF is still just a dream. So you can just continue playing your imaginary game with your imaginary friends.
P.S. I dont hate DF, Id love to see it succeed and would most certainly play it if it delivers what devs promised the game to be. So far promises are just that...promises.
I'm having a blast in both RL and in real games. No need for imaginationary games nor friends m8.
PS: No need to belive the devs, in fact I encourage being sceptic to any MMO (vanguard anyone ?).
The good news you will be able to test the game for yourself. For free.
Currently playing Vanguard thought i'd go back and see how it was. And guess what having great fun with small groups no rat race / lots of content and people playing as a community. Can't say that for most other MMOs at the moment.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Your post where directed at the terrible DF fanbois, not this post. Good of you to admit it is a**es on all sides though. We are at an agreement on that. Buddy passes requires purcase and even if I don't have to pay for it, someone has to. That means a customer spend cash on something that should be free in the first place. No need to spend a buddy key on me though, I'm not your buddy after all
I will conveniently point to the second part of my second point. The Free Trials that games usually offer after release.
Please reply to the whole of my post next time instead of just selectively picking what suits you best.
And I am conveniently point to the fact that the buddy key is NOT free. I'n not the ony one being selective here...As for the "free trials that games offer after release" is just so far speculation on your part. If I am mistaken please link me where it says otherwise. Betas used to be free on Fileplanet as well, now you need to be a subscriber. Funcom is changing the rules and so far it hasn't been to the customer's advantage.
Yes, it's speculation. Just like you are speculating on Darkfalls release and the state of the game -when- it releases. So? What point are you trying to make?
To put it all in one sentence. If you are remotely interested in AoC, wait until after release and you will get a chance of trying it before you buy it (this is my belief and is just as valid as yours at this point).
Trying to say FC is ripping people off is just plain and simple -wrong-. No one is forcing you to buy anything until -you- choose to do so.
It's very easy to test those promises when the game releases for free. If it doesn't comply to your expectations, you don't buy. Remember the hype,the beta leaks you ignored, the 3 day headstart, the unique preorder only trinkets ? Remember Vanguard ? Never again I say.
That is only assuming the game gets released for free. The statement "try before you buy" doesn't guarantee a free release.
What do you mean ? Can you give an example ?
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
It's very easy to test those promises when the game releases for free. If it doesn't comply to your expectations, you don't buy. Remember the hype,the beta leaks you ignored, the 3 day headstart, the unique preorder only trinkets ? Remember Vanguard ? Never again I say.
That is only assuming the game gets released for free. The statement "try before you buy" doesn't guarantee a free release.
What do you mean ? Can you give an example ?
Example of what? Unless I've missed something, I haven't read anything saying DF will be a free release and I'm saying the statement Tasos' says about trying before you buy doesn't guarantee a free release.
Currently playing Vanguard thought i'd go back and see how it was. And guess what having great fun with small groups no rat race / lots of content and people playing as a community. Can't say that for most other MMOs at the moment.
Can they show helmets yet ? Glad you are happy with it I'm not paying for beta.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Example of what? Unless I've missed something, I haven't read anything saying DF will be a free release and I'm saying the statement Tasos' says about trying before you buy doesn't guarantee a free release.
What is the difference between a "try before you buy" and a "free release" ?
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Yes, it's speculation. Just like you are speculating on Darkfalls release and the state of the game -when- it releases. So? What point are you trying to make?
To put it all in one sentence. If you are remotely interested in AoC, wait until after release and you will get a chance of trying it before you buy it (this is my belief and is just as valid as yours at this point).
Trying to say FC is ripping people off is just plain and simple -wrong-. No one is forcing you to buy anything until -you- choose to do so.
Has Funcom said it will be a free trial or not ? Aventurine already stated they offer try before buy. No need to belive anything else. If they change this promise, they have already failed and I don't even have to download a client to check out if their other promises is true
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Currently playing Vanguard thought i'd go back and see how it was. And guess what having great fun with small groups no rat race / lots of content and people playing as a community. Can't say that for most other MMOs at the moment.
Can they show helmets yet ? Glad you are happy with it I'm not paying for beta.
Well lets say i have everything running on max settings no lag no crashes and yes i believe i have a nice helmet with nice horns on it. As a very experienced gamer you have just shown yourself up for what you are a troller plain and simple. The anal statement about beta makes me laugh and shows and makes me wonder why you are here . You aren't interested in DF just trying to goad people... Each to their own.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Example of what? Unless I've missed something, I haven't read anything saying DF will be a free release and I'm saying the statement Tasos' says about trying before you buy doesn't guarantee a free release.
What is the difference between a "try before you buy" and a "free release" ?
There is none, however there is a perception issue I think we're running into.
Like it or not, buddy keys are a "try before you buy" for someone. Doesn't matter if someone else bought the game, if I received a buddy key, I didn't buy it and I'm trying the game before "I" buy it. Free trials are a form of "try before you buy" and so is a "free release", however I can't see a "free release" being practical. Games take money and time to make, how can anyone expect to stay in business if they gave all their product away for free? If Darkfall were to offer a free release, and the game isn't up to expectations, guess what they probably won't have any money to fix it and go belly up pretty dam quick. Then again, lets say it's a very good success, I'm not trying to be negative or condescending towards anyone at all but most people won't "volunteer" money if they don't have to.
Can they show helmets yet ? Glad you are happy with it I'm not paying for beta.
Well lets say i have everything running on max settings no lag no crashes and yes i believe i have a nice helmet with nice horns on it. As a very experienced gamer you have just shown yourself up for what you are a troller plain and simple. The anal statement about beta makes me laugh and shows and makes me wonder why you are here . You aren't interested in DF just trying to goad people... Each to their own.
That is nice! It took only, what a year ? I'm sure SOE is happy that they have such loyal customers.
I never claim I'm an experienced player but that paying for beta really isn't my thing. As for the trolling part, I leave that to the judgement for the moderators.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
There is none, however there is a perception issue I think we're running into.
Like it or not, buddy keys are a "try before you buy" for someone. Doesn't matter if someone else bought the game, if I received a buddy key, I didn't buy it and I'm trying the game before "I" buy it. Free trials are a form of "try before you buy" and so is a "free release", however I can't see a "free release" being practical. Games take money and time to make, how can anyone expect to stay in business if they gave all their product away for free? If Darkfall were to offer a free release, and the game isn't up to expectations, guess what they probably won't have any money to fix it and go belly up pretty dam quick. Then again, lets say it's a very good success, I'm not trying to be negative or condescending towards anyone at all but most people won't "volunteer" money if they don't have to.
Funcom could have said: Anyone who wants to try our game for free for two weeks can do so. They are not. Someone has to pay to get access. It's not free.
Your argument about staying in business is valid BUT if you have faith in your product, you "know" the customer will be hooked. In fact if it's free, more will probably try it out and IF the game is good enough you will have more customers. It seems Aventurine have enough faith in their product that they will let you try their product for free, hoping you sometime in the future you will become a paying customer.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
A concept for over seven years... but the first beta announcement was 2003. For the announcement to have been made in 2003, development must have been quite advanced. Therefore, using the most conservative of estimates, Darkfall has been in development for over five years.
You might want to go back to math class. If the beta was announed in 2003, then that means they were developing it well before then. You don't announce a beta before you have the alpha, and that means the basic, near-complete, game mechanics are already coded. Given most mmo's (including vsoh which was rushed out in 12 months) timeline, and being truely conservative, the game has been in development since 2001, which means at least 7 years.
You don't announce beta before you truely have a product. If they can't get a beta out in 7 years, much less a finalized product, how long do you think it will take for expansions, patches, and updates to release??
The operative phrase was "using the most conservative of estimates".
There is none, however there is a perception issue I think we're running into.
Like it or not, buddy keys are a "try before you buy" for someone. Doesn't matter if someone else bought the game, if I received a buddy key, I didn't buy it and I'm trying the game before "I" buy it. Free trials are a form of "try before you buy" and so is a "free release", however I can't see a "free release" being practical. Games take money and time to make, how can anyone expect to stay in business if they gave all their product away for free? If Darkfall were to offer a free release, and the game isn't up to expectations, guess what they probably won't have any money to fix it and go belly up pretty dam quick. Then again, lets say it's a very good success, I'm not trying to be negative or condescending towards anyone at all but most people won't "volunteer" money if they don't have to.
Funcom could have said: Anyone who wants to try our game for free for two weeks can do so. They are not. Someone has to pay to get access. It's not free.
Your argument about staying in business is valid BUT if you have faith in your product, you "know" the customer will be hooked. In fact if it's free, more will probably try it out and IF the game is good enough you will have more customers. It seems Aventurine have enough faith in their product that they will let you try their product for free, hoping you sometime in the future you will become a paying customer.
It's still free to someone that gets a buddy key, which is the point you're missing. In context "try before you buy" regarding this as unethical as it may possibly be, it's still a truth and a hook almost anyone in advertising will use. This really isn't about AoC and Funcom though, I was speaking in regards to Tasos and DF. He made the statement "You can try it before you buy". What he was referring to is the question because any of the examples I and a few others have mentioned including a limitless open beta are various versions of "try before you buy" and to simply think he was only referring to free access for everyone on release would be setting yourself up for a possibly upsetting situation.
As far as having faith your product will deliver, and "knowing" the customer will be hooked. I think every company looking to make money from a product should have this mentality. However, to put that much faith in people, thinking if they like your product enough they'll pony up the money eventually is not the mentality of someone that will stay in business. I myself would love to have that much faith in people, but the reality is people will take the free alternative over the one that costs. Sure, there will be those that have the morals to pay for it after they find out they truly enjoy the game, but "hoping" every person that tries your game will be this way is setting yourself up for failure.
But considering that after over 7 years of development such little proof has been provided someone who says “never going to happen” really has a substantial amount of proof already to support the plausibility of that statement.
You don't make sense. There is no reason for them to prove anything until release or open beta. Considering they don't have a marketing department, they are probably making as much publicity as possible with as little work as possible the way they are doing things right now. I don't think its the right thing to do, but it sure beats the shameless marketing some other MMOs have had.
You don't make sense. There is no reason for them to prove anything until release or open beta. Considering they don't have a marketing department, they are probably making as much publicity as possible with as little work as possible the way they are doing things right now. I don't think its the right thing to do, but it sure beats the shameless marketing some other MMOs have had.
What does having a marketing department have to do with anything? So you really believe anytime one of the more credible gaming sites on the net. Does a hands-on preview of a game it's because the developer or even the publisher paid for it? Not all trips as those are paid for by the developer/publisher. Sometimes it is out of pocket expenses.
Do you really expect people to believe for even a moment. Considering ALL the features that Darkfall promises to bring to the table. That if they contacted a creditable gaming site/gaming mag. Saying we'd be more then happy to show you the current build of our game. That their response would be "Sure, but only if you are paying for our travel cost?" Alot of the more creditable sites even have over-sea's affiliates. That they could send in their place, just to keep the cost down.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
If they didnt want to talk about their game until release or OB, that would have been a different matter. Fact is, they have talked a great deal over a long period of time, but shown very little in comparison. That invites reasonable inquiry.
If Aventurine had a solid product, as they claim, they could solve 2 problems very easily. Simply allow a few from the reputable press organisations play that feature complete and stable beta that was announced in Jan 2007 (now with 15 months of additional polish) and write an article. They would get TONS of free marketing (the good kind!) and also silence vaporware claims. There is no downside to doing this...unless the "feature complete and stable beta" actually isnt complete and stable.
Originally posted by Theodgrim Simply allow a few from the reputable press organisations play that feature complete and stable beta that was announced in Jan 2007 (now with 15 months of additional polish) and write an article.
Agreed.
Like it or not, Marketing is part of MMORPG development. Any company that ignores Marketing will suffer for it. Allowing the press to preview a game is part of marketing and most interviewers from the major sites/magazines are reasonable enough to understand if they see bugs or glitches.
Darkfall's problem is the Devs only went half-way into their Marketing. They release a trailer that makes incredible claims as if their game is going to change the entire genre then don't follow up.
If they didn't want to show anyone their game before release, they should have been completely secretive and not revealed ANYTHING. Then imagine the splash they would have made then they released it onto an unsuspecting MMORPG market.
That is, if they actually have a working game. I don't think it's vaporware but after disasters like Vanguard and Gods and Heroes, I'm amazed anyone in the MMORPG community is willing to simply accept claims from Developers without indepedent sources as back-up.
As good as darkfall looks, they have a point. Seems to me they could.. with minimal effort, destory all the naysayers claims and add tons of free marketing..... why wont they??
Comments
Skill Based= Auto Balance , skill based and well designed means that different skill builds will participate in such and not everyone playing the same set-up.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Okay so you can try it before you buy it. Very easy for Darkfall to promise a million things since the game is not real and not on the marketplace...
It's very easy to test those promises when the game releases for free. If it doesn't comply to your expectations, you don't buy. Remember the hype,the beta leaks you ignored, the 3 day headstart, the unique preorder only trinkets ? Remember Vanguard ? Never again I say.
That is only assuming the game gets released for free. The statement "try before you buy" doesn't guarantee a free release.
Please reply to the whole of my post next time instead of just selectively picking what suits you best.
And I am conveniently point to the fact that the buddy key is NOT free. I'n not the ony one being selective here...As for the "free trials that games offer after release" is just so far speculation on your part. If I am mistaken please link me where it says otherwise. Betas used to be free on Fileplanet as well, now you need to be a subscriber. Funcom is changing the rules and so far it hasn't been to the customer's advantage.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
I'm having a blast in both RL and in real games. No need for imaginationary games nor friends m8.
PS: No need to belive the devs, in fact I encourage being sceptic to any MMO (vanguard anyone ?).
The good news you will be able to test the game for yourself. For free.
Currently playing Vanguard thought i'd go back and see how it was. And guess what having great fun with small groups no rat race / lots of content and people playing as a community. Can't say that for most other MMOs at the moment.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Please reply to the whole of my post next time instead of just selectively picking what suits you best.
And I am conveniently point to the fact that the buddy key is NOT free. I'n not the ony one being selective here...As for the "free trials that games offer after release" is just so far speculation on your part. If I am mistaken please link me where it says otherwise. Betas used to be free on Fileplanet as well, now you need to be a subscriber. Funcom is changing the rules and so far it hasn't been to the customer's advantage.
Yes, it's speculation. Just like you are speculating on Darkfalls release and the state of the game -when- it releases. So? What point are you trying to make?To put it all in one sentence. If you are remotely interested in AoC, wait until after release and you will get a chance of trying it before you buy it (this is my belief and is just as valid as yours at this point).
Trying to say FC is ripping people off is just plain and simple -wrong-. No one is forcing you to buy anything until -you- choose to do so.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
That is only assuming the game gets released for free. The statement "try before you buy" doesn't guarantee a free release.
What do you mean ? Can you give an example ?
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
That is only assuming the game gets released for free. The statement "try before you buy" doesn't guarantee a free release.
What do you mean ? Can you give an example ?
Example of what? Unless I've missed something, I haven't read anything saying DF will be a free release and I'm saying the statement Tasos' says about trying before you buy doesn't guarantee a free release.
Can they show helmets yet ? Glad you are happy with it I'm not paying for beta.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Example of what? Unless I've missed something, I haven't read anything saying DF will be a free release and I'm saying the statement Tasos' says about trying before you buy doesn't guarantee a free release.
What is the difference between a "try before you buy" and a "free release" ?
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Can they show helmets yet ? Glad you are happy with it I'm not paying for beta.
Well lets say i have everything running on max settings no lag no crashes and yes i believe i have a nice helmet with nice horns on it. As a very experienced gamer you have just shown yourself up for what you are a troller plain and simple. The anal statement about beta makes me laugh and shows and makes me wonder why you are here . You aren't interested in DF just trying to goad people... Each to their own.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Example of what? Unless I've missed something, I haven't read anything saying DF will be a free release and I'm saying the statement Tasos' says about trying before you buy doesn't guarantee a free release.
What is the difference between a "try before you buy" and a "free release" ?
There is none, however there is a perception issue I think we're running into.Like it or not, buddy keys are a "try before you buy" for someone. Doesn't matter if someone else bought the game, if I received a buddy key, I didn't buy it and I'm trying the game before "I" buy it. Free trials are a form of "try before you buy" and so is a "free release", however I can't see a "free release" being practical. Games take money and time to make, how can anyone expect to stay in business if they gave all their product away for free? If Darkfall were to offer a free release, and the game isn't up to expectations, guess what they probably won't have any money to fix it and go belly up pretty dam quick. Then again, lets say it's a very good success, I'm not trying to be negative or condescending towards anyone at all but most people won't "volunteer" money if they don't have to.
Well lets say i have everything running on max settings no lag no crashes and yes i believe i have a nice helmet with nice horns on it. As a very experienced gamer you have just shown yourself up for what you are a troller plain and simple. The anal statement about beta makes me laugh and shows and makes me wonder why you are here . You aren't interested in DF just trying to goad people... Each to their own.
That is nice! It took only, what a year ? I'm sure SOE is happy that they have such loyal customers.
I never claim I'm an experienced player but that paying for beta really isn't my thing. As for the trolling part, I leave that to the judgement for the moderators.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Your argument about staying in business is valid BUT if you have faith in your product, you "know" the customer will be hooked. In fact if it's free, more will probably try it out and IF the game is good enough you will have more customers. It seems Aventurine have enough faith in their product that they will let you try their product for free, hoping you sometime in the future you will become a paying customer.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
You don't announce beta before you truely have a product. If they can't get a beta out in 7 years, much less a finalized product, how long do you think it will take for expansions, patches, and updates to release??
The operative phrase was "using the most conservative of estimates".
Funcom could have said: Anyone who wants to try our game for free for two weeks can do so. They are not. Someone has to pay to get access. It's not free.Your argument about staying in business is valid BUT if you have faith in your product, you "know" the customer will be hooked. In fact if it's free, more will probably try it out and IF the game is good enough you will have more customers. It seems Aventurine have enough faith in their product that they will let you try their product for free, hoping you sometime in the future you will become a paying customer.
It's still free to someone that gets a buddy key, which is the point you're missing. In context "try before you buy" regarding this as unethical as it may possibly be, it's still a truth and a hook almost anyone in advertising will use. This really isn't about AoC and Funcom though, I was speaking in regards to Tasos and DF. He made the statement "You can try it before you buy". What he was referring to is the question because any of the examples I and a few others have mentioned including a limitless open beta are various versions of "try before you buy" and to simply think he was only referring to free access for everyone on release would be setting yourself up for a possibly upsetting situation.
As far as having faith your product will deliver, and "knowing" the customer will be hooked. I think every company looking to make money from a product should have this mentality. However, to put that much faith in people, thinking if they like your product enough they'll pony up the money eventually is not the mentality of someone that will stay in business. I myself would love to have that much faith in people, but the reality is people will take the free alternative over the one that costs. Sure, there will be those that have the morals to pay for it after they find out they truly enjoy the game, but "hoping" every person that tries your game will be this way is setting yourself up for failure.
How do you know he didn't mean try before you buy with a mandatory entry of a credit card to be auto billed next month if you don't cancel?
That's a free trial.
Yea never going to happen. Move on.
Proof please ^.^
It’s the other way round, the developers have to provide proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
But considering that after over 7 years of development such little proof has been provided someone who says “never going to happen” really has a substantial amount of proof already to support the plausibility of that statement.
You don't make sense. There is no reason for them to prove anything until release or open beta. Considering they don't have a marketing department, they are probably making as much publicity as possible with as little work as possible the way they are doing things right now. I don't think its the right thing to do, but it sure beats the shameless marketing some other MMOs have had.
What does having a marketing department have to do with anything? So you really believe anytime one of the more credible gaming sites on the net. Does a hands-on preview of a game it's because the developer or even the publisher paid for it? Not all trips as those are paid for by the developer/publisher. Sometimes it is out of pocket expenses.
Do you really expect people to believe for even a moment. Considering ALL the features that Darkfall promises to bring to the table. That if they contacted a creditable gaming site/gaming mag. Saying we'd be more then happy to show you the current build of our game. That their response would be "Sure, but only if you are paying for our travel cost?" Alot of the more creditable sites even have over-sea's affiliates. That they could send in their place, just to keep the cost down.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
If they didnt want to talk about their game until release or OB, that would have been a different matter. Fact is, they have talked a great deal over a long period of time, but shown very little in comparison. That invites reasonable inquiry.
If Aventurine had a solid product, as they claim, they could solve 2 problems very easily. Simply allow a few from the reputable press organisations play that feature complete and stable beta that was announced in Jan 2007 (now with 15 months of additional polish) and write an article. They would get TONS of free marketing (the good kind!) and also silence vaporware claims. There is no downside to doing this...unless the "feature complete and stable beta" actually isnt complete and stable.
Agreed.
Like it or not, Marketing is part of MMORPG development. Any company that ignores Marketing will suffer for it. Allowing the press to preview a game is part of marketing and most interviewers from the major sites/magazines are reasonable enough to understand if they see bugs or glitches.
Darkfall's problem is the Devs only went half-way into their Marketing. They release a trailer that makes incredible claims as if their game is going to change the entire genre then don't follow up.
If they didn't want to show anyone their game before release, they should have been completely secretive and not revealed ANYTHING. Then imagine the splash they would have made then they released it onto an unsuspecting MMORPG market.
That is, if they actually have a working game. I don't think it's vaporware but after disasters like Vanguard and Gods and Heroes, I'm amazed anyone in the MMORPG community is willing to simply accept claims from Developers without indepedent sources as back-up.
As good as darkfall looks, they have a point. Seems to me they could.. with minimal effort, destory all the naysayers claims and add tons of free marketing..... why wont they??