Yawn, yet another rant by a disillusioned pre-NGE SWG player who's sure WOW and its successors are the true cause of their "pro" MMORPG game's demise.
FFXI proved that a good MMORPG can be developed for multiple platforms, even if its created for a console first.
So AOC won't bring down the genre, no more than WOW or LotRO did.
Sure, developers are now making games in an attempt to mimic WOW's success because that's the real point of running a business, to make the most money possible.
Games used to be labors of love, literallly developed by 2 and 3 man teams so they could afford to take risk and since they cost little to produce the didn't need to worry about failure.
Modern day MMO's are now running between 30-100M to create, and with that kind of cost, you need a big return. Only way to get a big return is to appeal to the popular market.
The big falacy is assuming something popular is bad. Elitists of every genre from movies, to music to food always make the same mistake in thinking that because they shun the popular, somehow their tastes are superior the masses. Its not, their not, and their opinions are worth no more than a person who really enjoys the popular item
WOW and its successors all have very fun elements to them, if only those bitter folks would take some time to try and enjoy what they offer rather than eternally look for their lost first love.
Who the hell are you, and why should I care? Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
AoC is a total setback in the mmo genre! The game is 100% instanced. Don't need to say anything else.
You should have said more, like offfer some evidence that you have a clue what you are talking about.
Yes, AOC has los of instances, especially in the starter isle, but once you get out in the world, not so muh. It also has lots of zones, doubtful you know the difference.
But despite all that, its easy to find fun things about AOC and enjoy playing the game. Haters seem to forget that, always overlooking the forest for the trees.
Who the hell are you, and why should I care? Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
You should have said more, like offfer some evidence that you have a clue what you are talking about.
Yes, AOC has los of instances, especially in the starter isle, but once you get out in the world, not so muh. It also has lots of zones, doubtful you know the difference.
I guess u really don't know what i´m talking about.
in AoC...wherever u are, when they get a certain number of players in the same zone, the game itself will create another copy of the same zone and new players will be placed in this new zone (called instance)...meaning u wont see them, unless u switch to the same instance they are. Its like mini servers inside the same server. It happens even inside the cities... Some ppl don't give a shit for this, but for me this is a total setback in the MMORPG genre....
I agree that AoC is dumbing down the MMO genre. The problem is: By doing this they are getting higher profits than ever before. It is working so why should they stop? Companies never care about the "essence" of a product. They are only interested in maximizing profit.
I admit that I am playing AoC but I look at it in a different way. For me its just a single player game which you can play in coop mode with a few friends. No world simulation, no social interaction, no hard quests, no risks, no exploration, no meaningful pvp, just simple hack'n'slay in a framework of quests. Its a diablo clone. With this mindset the game is fun! Just forget the word MMO in combination with AoC or the other 'modern' games of the genre ('MMORPG' was simply used to catch the naive and thats all).
In 'old' days there was only one target player group to please. They were the majority. Today that oldschool group of MMO players are just a minority, one that is dwarfed by the group of casual console/PC players that want a risk-free game with instant gratification. Can you really hold it against the game developers that they are targeting the biggest possible player base? I think not. In future we are going to see more games like AoC or WoW. Moaning about it doesn't help. All you can do is take from those games what they offer or simply wait for a game that lives up to your requirements. The term 'MMO'RPG has changed completely. Stop expecting it to be the same as 10 years ago.
If you want things to change then do this:
-Play niche games that are going in the direction you want and pay. Vote with your wallet.
-Say exactly what you want and make a lot of people say the same thing. If companies see that it is worth it to create a game for you and like-minded, then they will.
Coughing up some illusionary faults about an otherwise financially successful game is not going to work.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The term 'MMO'RPG has changed completely. Stop expecting it to be the same as 10 years ago.
Just because many gamers are new to MMO's does not change the fact that, before World of Warcraft, the games were simply funner, more complex, deeper and more in line with what a virtual world is.. or should be.
Fun is subjective, granted, but the new gamers may not even know what they are missing.
And I am not jaded nor am I longing for the 'good ole days' as you put it.
The genera that once seemed revolutionary and exciting (virtual worlds!) now seems more like on-line console games.
And I don't believe that young people today like instant gratification as much as some like to claim. In fact, consoles have been out since the early 70's (Odyssey) and no gamer ever can say that consoles were not part of their generation (my own generation x, or any of the younger ones).
The new MMO's are less fun, increasingly linear and yes dumbed down (meaning they are turning into button smashers without any thing to do other than kill kill kill).
These newer MMORPG's are like celebrities - all glitz and no substance.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Umbral, +1 to everything you said, especially the part about what he thinks is "real" music.
Country music and metal are dumbed down versions of real music no matter what kind it is - nu metal to death metal or Tim Mcgraw to Johnny Cash. You aren't cultured at all for liking video games, you're just a jaded star wars fan (who is probably fat, most likely (sorry, it's the truth)).
I'm gonna listen to some real music - like Beethoven, Brahms, or Bach, and do something worthwhile...like read a BOOK or practice cello. The "masses" may be getting dumber, you included, but that doesn't matter to anyone who actually cares about culture.
It is just a gamet, and a lot of people is satisfied with AoC as a lot of people is satisfied with WoW or EQ, the fact you dont like AoC wont change it.
The issues with this game have nothing to do with "what I like is deeper" even if it is not...
Bu this topic made by Nikoz78 is not about satisfaction, it is about arrogance, unfortunately.
This game was admittedly designed for gaming consoles and is therefore a watered down version of a true MMORPG. AOC lead developer: "we designed AoC to be a console game from the beginning" "AoC's combat system has gone through nine iterations throughout Funcom's quest to make it appealing to console users." link It's worth as an "MMO" should not even be seriously debated considering this very clear truth. Further, this game in my opinion has the potential to damage the overall genera, bringing the core of what an MMO is to new lows. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not trying to attack anyone personally. I'm trying to point out that the sole reason this corporation (Funcom) made this game is to try and tap into a bigger market. In other words they are exploiting our genera for financial gains and we as MMO gamers should consider the damage it has the potential to cause to it. Again, I'm not attacking anyone personally but consider the damage World of Warcraft has caused. It was such a hit ($$$) that every other, more complex MMO tried to emulate it. In effect, dumbing down the genera. I like to compare World of Warcraft to pop music because pop music is very shallow and easy to understand and (admittedly) fun to listen to, and it out sells all other styles of music (by a large margin). Pop music has damaged other styles of music, like country music (which today is candyass pop-fluff w/ no soul), ditto pop punk rock and nu metal. It is in this way that these watered down MMO's are going to damage our genera. You can say that it does not matter, that it's just another duck on the pond - but I respectfully disagree. In fact, I've lost much hope for the genera. These corporations ruin everything. Music is milked ruthlessly and turned into shallow trends, punk fashion is sold in mass chain stores like Hot Topic, it never ends. They destroy the essence of whatever it is they are trying to exploit-for-profit. MMORPG's are no exception. I'm out.
something so ridiculous could only have come from a star wars galaxy crybaby who still dreams of SWG before NGE and now wants to spoil for everyone else. get a life bro...
Umbral, +1 to everything you said, especially the part about what he thinks is "real" music.
Country music and metal are dumbed down versions of real music no matter what kind it is - nu metal to death metal or Tim Mcgraw to Johnny Cash. You aren't cultured at all for liking video games, you're just a jaded star wars fan (who is probably fat, most likely (sorry, it's the truth)).
I'm gonna listen to some real music - like Beethoven, Brahms, or Bach, and do something worthwhile...like read a BOOK or practice cello. The "masses" may be getting dumber, you included, but that doesn't matter to anyone who actually cares about culture.
Yes, you are right.
Games are games as pop music is pop music, it doesnt matter if it is a bit less popular.
An unpopular game doesnt make it more deeper than a game can be.
It is sad when you think most of people that judge the masses ( as the OP ) are just a bit less popular part of the masses...
i agree with the standard that WoW has put on the world. All MMO's are being compared to WoW now because it definately is one of the most successful games out there. Its easy to get into, marketed to a wide audience, and a hardcore gamer can play/raid/PVP or just a kid can play and have some fun. Look at Guild Wars though, and you can kind of compare that to age of conan. people consider both games to be "not really mmo's" like they are marketed as. If you think about it, though. The worlds are massive, theyre multiplayer, and they are MMO's. Just because Age of COnan is more console style than click to attack type games like we are all used to, doesnt mean its not an MMO. Its just a new take on the whole MMO genre. All MMOs that have come in the past have brought something new to the table, whether it be EQ with the whole 3D craze, or games that have given stellar PVP. AoC is just bringing new things to the table like combat style.
The OP is just being human. Like almost all of us he wants things to be like in his glory days and scoff at new things that do it differently than in his youth (he just started that view on the world a bit earlier than most people).
Every single generation of humans has always scoffed at new things and how people dont do stuff like they did when they were young and "what was good enough for us is good enough for the young too".
But the truth is that the world always move and leave people behind in their personal past where they listen to music from that time and dream of the fun stuff they did while they dont like or understand the new stuff.
And be sure that in 5-15 years from now those who are having a buzz out of AoC will scoff and moan about new online games at that time and talk about how dumped down and simple they are and how things were better when they played AoC in the good old days.
To the OP, you can never ever recreate what you enjoyed earlier in life. Its an impossiblity because even a perfect copy of the past wont give you the same buzz because YOU are no longer the same and it will all be artificial and sick.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
I have only just started to browse the forums of MMORPG.com so in otherwords I am new to these forums, yet I feel at home in reading posts such as the post from the OP.
I thought I was alone in seeing the huge damage games such as WoW, and AoC are doing to the MMO genre.
When I first started to play MMORPGS ( late 2000 ) they were very hard, time consuming and very rewarding.
I started playing by playing Everquest and the basic mainstream difference between modern MMORPGS and the original MMORPGS can simply be put down to time/and or effort vrs reward.
Time = the amount of time you put in to your character throught gear, leveling, progression etc et.c
Effort = the challenges involved in getting to where you are in the game
Reward = the combining factor of the above two aspects.
CHALLENGE + TIME = REWARD.
Now if we put aside the look and feel of MMORPGS the above sequence is one of 2 core aspects of MMORPGS ( the social side of MMORPGs are very relevent to the above sequence but for the sake of not complicating my point we will leave it out for now ). What we have essentially is what ALL post DAoC/EQ/L2/SWG MMORPGS are watering down.
WoW is 100% guilty in the destruction of the CHALLENGE + TIME = REWARD sequence. From the first day of release when I played it I knew it was bad news for the MMORPGE Genre, and up untill I cancelled my account the heads of Blizzard have taken large, large, large swipes at the time it takes to advance a character, to effort required in figuring out how to achieve and capture chances to advance your character and the rewards are not equal as a result.
Issues such as population, and class balancing, shit-house communities, stealing, lying, cheating, swearing, fighting etc. etc. where never an issues till WoW came along and the reason been is because the people who played MMORPGS were there to progress ( trying to avoid the social side again but it's hard too) through tough challenges as a guild, group, or even as a few members. The centre of MMORPGS have changed from been a social group working through the games progression and helping each other out, to this selfish gimme more more more epics mentality that has been bred from the core of modern MMORPGS.
Most people don't even know what the term EPIC means in WoW. The term EPIC in WoW means jack-shit to what it used to mean. If you were EPIC in EQ you where considered godly, and not many people got to that stage. I for certain didn't as I was only a youngest when Iwas playing EQ and had other commitments such as school, sports, social events etc etc.
By-in-large it's simple to put, the quality of games have been reduced to cater towards the quality of gamers playing MMORPGS now. In otherwords most of the MMORPGS around today suck that bad, and/or are THAT casual that to make money out of the genre (like businessmen want to) that to retain players and attract more players; gaming companies like Blizzard have to dumb down the time it takes, the challenge required and up the results just to keep the masses paying.
We can only speak for our own experiences, but after 8 years of MMORPGing I am about to give the genre up. I feel in unequivocal terms that players like myself and the OP have the right to make judgements like this as we have been in the genre from the beginning stages ( post-muds ) to now, and sadly the majority of the wow-twats that post on MMORPG have been introduced either via RuneScape, or WoW and have little to no scope on what a true MMORPG used to be like.
AOC is a burning scar on MMO genre. It basically kills everything MMO stand for. And since it seems to be such succes - i think it is a final blow to this genre.
I admit , i bought it and i am playing. Because my guild moved there.
But people are finding it boring allready - and it was only 2 weeks !!!!
AOC is not a MMO. It is a fancy ACTION RPG , with online mode.....
He is been human, showing a common human mistake, shallow arrogance.
He see himself as a deeper person and distant from the masses for the thing he likes, even when all these things are just as shallow as all the things he dislike.
Every MMO is half finish at the release, every MMO is unfinished... why should you pay a fee for a finished and closed game?
Everquest 2, DDO and Guild Wars, all of them have instances and zones, good graphics and all of them are only on PC... and you cant deny, they are all unique and good games, as AoC... so, what about your theory?
The OP is just being human. Like almost all of us he wants things to be like in his glory days and scoff at new things that do it differently than in his youth (he just started that view on the world a bit earlier than most people). Every single generation of humans has always scoffed at new things and how people dont do stuff like they did when they were young and "what was good enough for us is good enough for the young too". But the truth is that the world always move and leave people behind in their personal past where they listen to music from that time and dream of the fun stuff they did while they dont like or understand the new stuff. And be sure that in 5-15 years from now those who are having a buzz out of AoC will scoff and moan about new online games at that time and talk about how dumped down and simple they are and how things were better when they played AoC in the good old days. To the OP, you can never ever recreate what you enjoyed earlier in life. Its an impossiblity because even a perfect copy of the past wont give you the same buzz because YOU are no longer the same and it will all be artificial and sick.
It takes some thought and insight to realize when stereotypes simply do not apply.
The OP is just being human. Like almost all of us he wants things to be like in his glory days and scoff at new things that do it differently than in his youth (he just started that view on the world a bit earlier than most people). Every single generation of humans has always scoffed at new things and how people dont do stuff like they did when they were young and "what was good enough for us is good enough for the young too". But the truth is that the world always move and leave people behind in their personal past where they listen to music from that time and dream of the fun stuff they did while they dont like or understand the new stuff. And be sure that in 5-15 years from now those who are having a buzz out of AoC will scoff and moan about new online games at that time and talk about how dumped down and simple they are and how things were better when they played AoC in the good old days. To the OP, you can never ever recreate what you enjoyed earlier in life. Its an impossiblity because even a perfect copy of the past wont give you the same buzz because YOU are no longer the same and it will all be artificial and sick.
Most logical and well thought-out answer I have seen on these boards in eons....cheers!
As an original UO'er, I have been unable to find an MMO that I enjoyed (and was as addicted to) as much as UO for the 5 years (97ish-2002 or so) my wife and I played. Hell, we practically divorced in RL after joining rival guilds. Since then, dabbled in EQ, WOW, played and enjoyed GW for a year or so. Currently, I am looking for the next MMO that will keep my attention for an extensive amount of time.
The problem is that there is no perfect formula that is going to satisfy every MMORPG player. I agree that, for developers, it is all about the dollar which is going to make it increasingly difficult for me to wait for the game that seems to have the right mix of PvP, PvE, role playing/social interaction, graphics, economics, crafting etc. as well as a true MMO environment.
Maybe with the advent of WoW, AoC etc. there will never be another, but with millions of people world wide buying these products, who needs me.
Afoaa point of view about the OP may not apply as a stereotype, but all what the OP expressed just fell in all the "Im smarter than the masses" shallow concept... and this is a stereotype among people in gaming, "less popular pop music" and pop sci fi communities.
You didn't think that mmo's would eventually end up on console?
I'm not crazy about the idea but they are grabbing their share of the market. If you look at other online console games Halo.. etc.. and how successful they have been It was only a matter of time before someone merged the two.
I'm not sure how the two together will work as I don't use vent or anything like that so communicating with the console players may be an interesting challenge. maybe there will be console servers and pc servers? /shrug
Comments
Yawn, yet another rant by a disillusioned pre-NGE SWG player who's sure WOW and its successors are the true cause of their "pro" MMORPG game's demise.
FFXI proved that a good MMORPG can be developed for multiple platforms, even if its created for a console first.
So AOC won't bring down the genre, no more than WOW or LotRO did.
Sure, developers are now making games in an attempt to mimic WOW's success because that's the real point of running a business, to make the most money possible.
Games used to be labors of love, literallly developed by 2 and 3 man teams so they could afford to take risk and since they cost little to produce the didn't need to worry about failure.
Modern day MMO's are now running between 30-100M to create, and with that kind of cost, you need a big return. Only way to get a big return is to appeal to the popular market.
The big falacy is assuming something popular is bad. Elitists of every genre from movies, to music to food always make the same mistake in thinking that because they shun the popular, somehow their tastes are superior the masses. Its not, their not, and their opinions are worth no more than a person who really enjoys the popular item
WOW and its successors all have very fun elements to them, if only those bitter folks would take some time to try and enjoy what they offer rather than eternally look for their lost first love.
Who the hell are you, and why should I care?
Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
So I guess you also think Final Fantasy XI is watered down because it is also designed for a console? Logic ftw.
You should have said more, like offfer some evidence that you have a clue what you are talking about.
Yes, AOC has los of instances, especially in the starter isle, but once you get out in the world, not so muh. It also has lots of zones, doubtful you know the difference.
But despite all that, its easy to find fun things about AOC and enjoy playing the game. Haters seem to forget that, always overlooking the forest for the trees.
Who the hell are you, and why should I care?
Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
I don't agree with the OP at all, I play PC and consoles and would love to have console players get a taste of what i like so much about my PC.
On a side note, even if this were true, I'm not really worried that this will hurt the genre, because when WAR comes out it will right it again.
You should have said more, like offfer some evidence that you have a clue what you are talking about.
Yes, AOC has los of instances, especially in the starter isle, but once you get out in the world, not so muh. It also has lots of zones, doubtful you know the difference.
I guess u really don't know what i´m talking about.
in AoC...wherever u are, when they get a certain number of players in the same zone, the game itself will create another copy of the same zone and new players will be placed in this new zone (called instance)...meaning u wont see them, unless u switch to the same instance they are. Its like mini servers inside the same server. It happens even inside the cities... Some ppl don't give a shit for this, but for me this is a total setback in the MMORPG genre....
I agree that AoC is dumbing down the MMO genre. The problem is: By doing this they are getting higher profits than ever before. It is working so why should they stop? Companies never care about the "essence" of a product. They are only interested in maximizing profit.
I admit that I am playing AoC but I look at it in a different way. For me its just a single player game which you can play in coop mode with a few friends. No world simulation, no social interaction, no hard quests, no risks, no exploration, no meaningful pvp, just simple hack'n'slay in a framework of quests. Its a diablo clone. With this mindset the game is fun! Just forget the word MMO in combination with AoC or the other 'modern' games of the genre ('MMORPG' was simply used to catch the naive and thats all).
In 'old' days there was only one target player group to please. They were the majority. Today that oldschool group of MMO players are just a minority, one that is dwarfed by the group of casual console/PC players that want a risk-free game with instant gratification. Can you really hold it against the game developers that they are targeting the biggest possible player base? I think not. In future we are going to see more games like AoC or WoW. Moaning about it doesn't help. All you can do is take from those games what they offer or simply wait for a game that lives up to your requirements. The term 'MMO'RPG has changed completely. Stop expecting it to be the same as 10 years ago.
If you want things to change then do this:
-Play niche games that are going in the direction you want and pay. Vote with your wallet.
-Say exactly what you want and make a lot of people say the same thing. If companies see that it is worth it to create a game for you and like-minded, then they will.
Coughing up some illusionary faults about an otherwise financially successful game is not going to work.
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Just because many gamers are new to MMO's does not change the fact that, before World of Warcraft, the games were simply funner, more complex, deeper and more in line with what a virtual world is.. or should be.
Fun is subjective, granted, but the new gamers may not even know what they are missing.
And I am not jaded nor am I longing for the 'good ole days' as you put it.
The genera that once seemed revolutionary and exciting (virtual worlds!) now seems more like on-line console games.
And I don't believe that young people today like instant gratification as much as some like to claim. In fact, consoles have been out since the early 70's (Odyssey) and no gamer ever can say that consoles were not part of their generation (my own generation x, or any of the younger ones).
The new MMO's are less fun, increasingly linear and yes dumbed down (meaning they are turning into button smashers without any thing to do other than kill kill kill).
These newer MMORPG's are like celebrities - all glitz and no substance.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Nikoz78
As I said to you in my previous reply to your post, you are very confused about pop culture, substance and what is "deeper"
...
it is just a game chill out.
So what. Games are as important as a TV set or a DVD player or a holiday trip. We expect to be satisfied when buying such products.
Umbral, +1 to everything you said, especially the part about what he thinks is "real" music.
Country music and metal are dumbed down versions of real music no matter what kind it is - nu metal to death metal or Tim Mcgraw to Johnny Cash. You aren't cultured at all for liking video games, you're just a jaded star wars fan (who is probably fat, most likely (sorry, it's the truth)).
I'm gonna listen to some real music - like Beethoven, Brahms, or Bach, and do something worthwhile...like read a BOOK or practice cello. The "masses" may be getting dumber, you included, but that doesn't matter to anyone who actually cares about culture.
Yes Altairzp
It is just a gamet, and a lot of people is satisfied with AoC as a lot of people is satisfied with WoW or EQ, the fact you dont like AoC wont change it.
The issues with this game have nothing to do with "what I like is deeper" even if it is not...
Bu this topic made by Nikoz78 is not about satisfaction, it is about arrogance, unfortunately.
...
something so ridiculous could only have come from a star wars galaxy crybaby who still dreams of SWG before NGE and now wants to spoil for everyone else. get a life bro...
Yes, you are right.
Games are games as pop music is pop music, it doesnt matter if it is a bit less popular.
An unpopular game doesnt make it more deeper than a game can be.
It is sad when you think most of people that judge the masses ( as the OP ) are just a bit less popular part of the masses...
...
i agree with the standard that WoW has put on the world. All MMO's are being compared to WoW now because it definately is one of the most successful games out there. Its easy to get into, marketed to a wide audience, and a hardcore gamer can play/raid/PVP or just a kid can play and have some fun. Look at Guild Wars though, and you can kind of compare that to age of conan. people consider both games to be "not really mmo's" like they are marketed as. If you think about it, though. The worlds are massive, theyre multiplayer, and they are MMO's. Just because Age of COnan is more console style than click to attack type games like we are all used to, doesnt mean its not an MMO. Its just a new take on the whole MMO genre. All MMOs that have come in the past have brought something new to the table, whether it be EQ with the whole 3D craze, or games that have given stellar PVP. AoC is just bringing new things to the table like combat style.
The OP is just being human. Like almost all of us he wants things to be like in his glory days and scoff at new things that do it differently than in his youth (he just started that view on the world a bit earlier than most people).
Every single generation of humans has always scoffed at new things and how people dont do stuff like they did when they were young and "what was good enough for us is good enough for the young too".
But the truth is that the world always move and leave people behind in their personal past where they listen to music from that time and dream of the fun stuff they did while they dont like or understand the new stuff.
And be sure that in 5-15 years from now those who are having a buzz out of AoC will scoff and moan about new online games at that time and talk about how dumped down and simple they are and how things were better when they played AoC in the good old days.
To the OP, you can never ever recreate what you enjoyed earlier in life. Its an impossiblity because even a perfect copy of the past wont give you the same buzz because YOU are no longer the same and it will all be artificial and sick.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
/clap
I have only just started to browse the forums of MMORPG.com so in otherwords I am new to these forums, yet I feel at home in reading posts such as the post from the OP.
I thought I was alone in seeing the huge damage games such as WoW, and AoC are doing to the MMO genre.
When I first started to play MMORPGS ( late 2000 ) they were very hard, time consuming and very rewarding.
I started playing by playing Everquest and the basic mainstream difference between modern MMORPGS and the original MMORPGS can simply be put down to time/and or effort vrs reward.
Time = the amount of time you put in to your character throught gear, leveling, progression etc et.c
Effort = the challenges involved in getting to where you are in the game
Reward = the combining factor of the above two aspects.
CHALLENGE + TIME = REWARD.
Now if we put aside the look and feel of MMORPGS the above sequence is one of 2 core aspects of MMORPGS ( the social side of MMORPGs are very relevent to the above sequence but for the sake of not complicating my point we will leave it out for now ). What we have essentially is what ALL post DAoC/EQ/L2/SWG MMORPGS are watering down.
WoW is 100% guilty in the destruction of the CHALLENGE + TIME = REWARD sequence. From the first day of release when I played it I knew it was bad news for the MMORPGE Genre, and up untill I cancelled my account the heads of Blizzard have taken large, large, large swipes at the time it takes to advance a character, to effort required in figuring out how to achieve and capture chances to advance your character and the rewards are not equal as a result.
Issues such as population, and class balancing, shit-house communities, stealing, lying, cheating, swearing, fighting etc. etc. where never an issues till WoW came along and the reason been is because the people who played MMORPGS were there to progress ( trying to avoid the social side again but it's hard too) through tough challenges as a guild, group, or even as a few members. The centre of MMORPGS have changed from been a social group working through the games progression and helping each other out, to this selfish gimme more more more epics mentality that has been bred from the core of modern MMORPGS.
Most people don't even know what the term EPIC means in WoW. The term EPIC in WoW means jack-shit to what it used to mean. If you were EPIC in EQ you where considered godly, and not many people got to that stage. I for certain didn't as I was only a youngest when Iwas playing EQ and had other commitments such as school, sports, social events etc etc.
By-in-large it's simple to put, the quality of games have been reduced to cater towards the quality of gamers playing MMORPGS now. In otherwords most of the MMORPGS around today suck that bad, and/or are THAT casual that to make money out of the genre (like businessmen want to) that to retain players and attract more players; gaming companies like Blizzard have to dumb down the time it takes, the challenge required and up the results just to keep the masses paying.
We can only speak for our own experiences, but after 8 years of MMORPGing I am about to give the genre up. I feel in unequivocal terms that players like myself and the OP have the right to make judgements like this as we have been in the genre from the beginning stages ( post-muds ) to now, and sadly the majority of the wow-twats that post on MMORPG have been introduced either via RuneScape, or WoW and have little to no scope on what a true MMORPG used to be like.
AOC is a burning scar on MMO genre. It basically kills everything MMO stand for. And since it seems to be such succes - i think it is a final blow to this genre.
I admit , i bought it and i am playing. Because my guild moved there.
But people are finding it boring allready - and it was only 2 weeks !!!!
AOC is not a MMO. It is a fancy ACTION RPG , with online mode.....
Yes Afoaa
He is been human, showing a common human mistake, shallow arrogance.
He see himself as a deeper person and distant from the masses for the thing he likes, even when all these things are just as shallow as all the things he dislike.
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Zorndorf
Every MMO is half finish at the release, every MMO is unfinished... why should you pay a fee for a finished and closed game?
Everquest 2, DDO and Guild Wars, all of them have instances and zones, good graphics and all of them are only on PC... and you cant deny, they are all unique and good games, as AoC... so, what about your theory?
What you said make no sense.
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It takes some thought and insight to realize when stereotypes simply do not apply.
Most logical and well thought-out answer I have seen on these boards in eons....cheers!
As an original UO'er, I have been unable to find an MMO that I enjoyed (and was as addicted to) as much as UO for the 5 years (97ish-2002 or so) my wife and I played. Hell, we practically divorced in RL after joining rival guilds. Since then, dabbled in EQ, WOW, played and enjoyed GW for a year or so. Currently, I am looking for the next MMO that will keep my attention for an extensive amount of time.
The problem is that there is no perfect formula that is going to satisfy every MMORPG player. I agree that, for developers, it is all about the dollar which is going to make it increasingly difficult for me to wait for the game that seems to have the right mix of PvP, PvE, role playing/social interaction, graphics, economics, crafting etc. as well as a true MMO environment.
Maybe with the advent of WoW, AoC etc. there will never be another, but with millions of people world wide buying these products, who needs me.
Afoaa point of view about the OP may not apply as a stereotype, but all what the OP expressed just fell in all the "Im smarter than the masses" shallow concept... and this is a stereotype among people in gaming, "less popular pop music" and pop sci fi communities.
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You didn't think that mmo's would eventually end up on console?
I'm not crazy about the idea but they are grabbing their share of the market. If you look at other online console games Halo.. etc.. and how successful they have been It was only a matter of time before someone merged the two.
I'm not sure how the two together will work as I don't use vent or anything like that so communicating with the console players may be an interesting challenge. maybe there will be console servers and pc servers? /shrug