Get over yourselfes. If you don't like it don't play it.
A shitload of us actualy have some imagination and we can look beyond the instancing/zoning.
Alot of people here seem so desperate to see this game fail, well my friends to bad it wont happen.
I hope it does great. We could use some more quality gaes in this genre. No more Neo-Korean Clone garbage, or failed attempts at revamps of doomed MMO's.
I don't think any MMO vet would say "An MMORPG should feel like [this]". Choice is a beautiful thing and that desire for choice is why we don't just have a few mega-corporate MMO's. I can't agree with anyone who writes unfounded, unintelligible nonsense like what was linked in the original post.
" How can they accept being confined with technology more limiting than the singleplayer game Oblivion?"
Whoa. Someone didn't play Oblivion with mods. Ever. Bethesda Softworks is one of the few companies out there who make mountains using molehill technology. Want an expansion? Build it yourself! New buildings, textures, scripts, engine functions? BAM.... community made, free and effective. Only on the PC Though. L2Not360.
Originally posted by Rasputin UO, DAoC, SB, SWG, PS and probably many others have no instances, so I believe it is you who is confused.
Maybe I stroked-out, but I could've sworn that the Corvette and Geonosian Cave were instanced in SWG.
I agree Terranah, as much as I bitch and complain now ... SWG is still one of my favorite MMOs. The MMO genre has never seen, and most likely will never see again, a community like that game had.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I can't agree with anyone who writes unfounded, unintelligible nonsense like what was linked in the original post. " How can they accept being confined with technology more limiting than the singleplayer game Oblivion?" Whoa. Someone didn't play Oblivion with mods. Ever. Bethesda Softworks is one of the few companies out there who make mountains using molehill technology. Want an expansion? Build it yourself! New buildings, textures, scripts, engine functions? BAM.... community made, free and effective. Only on the PC Though. L2Not360.
I think you misunderstood me. I never criticized Oblivion. Isn't it a huge compliment to a singleplayer game that its technology on many fronts can beat the newest MMOG on the block?
Originally posted by Rasputin Originally posted by ZDPhoenix
I can't agree with anyone who writes unfounded, unintelligible nonsense like what was linked in the original post. " How can they accept being confined with technology more limiting than the singleplayer game Oblivion?" Whoa. Someone didn't play Oblivion with mods. Ever. Bethesda Softworks is one of the few companies out there who make mountains using molehill technology. Want an expansion? Build it yourself! New buildings, textures, scripts, engine functions? BAM.... community made, free and effective. Only on the PC Though. L2Not360.
I think you misunderstood me. I never criticized Oblivion. Isn't it a huge compliment to a singleplayer game that its technology on many fronts can beat the newest MMOG on the block? The shame is on AoC - not on Oblivion.
hahahah ya dont make me laugh...2 years ago it could beat any mmo that was released THEN...but now i dont think so...hell even UT3 has better technology than oblivion and its not even a rpg lol
I can't agree with anyone who writes unfounded, unintelligible nonsense like what was linked in the original post.
" How can they accept being confined with technology more limiting than the singleplayer game Oblivion?"
Whoa. Someone didn't play Oblivion with mods. Ever. Bethesda Softworks is one of the few companies out there who make mountains using molehill technology. Want an expansion? Build it yourself! New buildings, textures, scripts, engine functions? BAM.... community made, free and effective. Only on the PC Though. L2Not360.
I think you misunderstood me. I never criticized Oblivion. Isn't it a huge compliment to a singleplayer game that its technology on many fronts can beat the newest MMOG on the block?
The shame is on AoC - not on Oblivion.
hahahah ya dont make me laugh...2 years ago it could beat any mmo that was released THEN...but now i dont think so...hell even UT3 has better technology than oblivion and its not even a rpg lol
You DO realize there is more to gaming technology than simple graphic advances, right?
That said, this particular matter made me realize how neat (notice, I said neat...not 100% FUNCTIONAL) it would be if users could craft their own content in MMO's as they do in Oblivion. It would be rather nice...and I feel that, at least in some way, the MMO genre needs to build up its "player driven and created content" if it intends to remain as powerful a market as it is today.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently.
Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Forgive me if this has been said already, I only read the first 40 posts.
NEWSFLASH
You cannot 'teleport' to a different instance in a PvP fight to escape.
You cannot zone out when engaged in a PvP fight to escape.
Instead of theory put it into practice and you will see for yourself.
The game zones are very much like EQ2's feel.
On a side note Funcom employees people who worked on EQ, UO and SWG, thats content and design staff.
WoW's BG are limited in player size, So is Guild Wars, and so will Warhammers instanced scenerio area's (granted they have open pvp too).
Thing is AoC's PvP area's for sieges are bigger than any other zoned gamed PvP Maps and they offer more people in them than any other zoned mmorpg type of game area.
The content of the quoted first post is mute at best - comparing non mmorpg games to AoC is FLAWED.
The argument was over before it began. Which leaves you with the OPINION of I DONT LIKE ZONED GAMES - hope you was kicking up a fuss like this when EQ was released then? No? Why not?
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
*Yawn*
Yes, we all get it, Darkfall is "vaporware" because it's been in development for ages.
Instead of spending valuable time marketing the game and making as much media noise as possible to get people sold like countless other let-down titles in the past, perhaps they're actually more concerned with developing their ideal game. That's just my own rational stance on the matter, though.
The word is moot. It would be difficult for a written argument to be mute.
Personally I agree with the OP or the original linked thread. AOC imho is an abomination. It is the frankenstein of games. Clearly seems to be like the devs sat around and took the "best" of every game that was a hit and tried to throw it in thier game. Unfortunately what turned out was some sort of pasted together three legged beast that is barely ecognizable as a 2008 MMO.
I cannot honestly think of a single thing that AOC does better than any of a variety of games on the market. It didnt advance
combat,
grouping,
quests,
exploring,
crafting,
the economy,
graphics,
dungeon crawling,
1v1 pvp'ing,
group pvp/ing,
siege pvp'ing,
huge battle pvp'ing,
raiding-etc. etc.
In EVERY one of those catergories there are games (several) that do it better and more creatively than AOC.
Sure AOC is pretty, sure the combat is "different"-but does that really add up to a next generation AAA title. When grouping, the economy, pvp, trades, dungeon crawls, exploring are all horrifiically broken it leaves a rather shallow game. Can you AOC guys really and truly say that AOC moves the genre forward?
Personally I do hope it fails with a terrific explosion. I really would hate to see any future corporate types looking to AOC's success as some sort of model. To see future games patterned on AOC would be a total disaster-i simply cannot think of a single thing worthy of imitation in the entire game.
and fwiw it ran smooth as silk on my computer...before we get into all of that sillyness...
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
*Yawn*
Yes, we all get it, Darkfall is "vaporware" because it's been in development for ages.
Instead of spending valuable time marketing the game and making as much media noise as possible to get people sold like countless other let-down titles in the past, perhaps they're actually more concerned with developing their ideal game. That's just my own rational stance on the matter, though.
I would follow such rational stances. That is, I would right up until I realized that there are many free and perfectly available options. Some that take little to no time at all. Believe it or not, they need spend no money...and mere minutes of time to provide the "evidence" people clamor for. I have little doubts they had "plans" for a game. My doubts center on the reality of how far along they really are...and how much of the moon they can actually GRAB.
Oh...and it doesn't help trying to take a rational stance when the lead guy around there makes statements like "We're using bot programs to bug test! Its totally gonna work!".
I digress...it neither here nor there in regard to this actual topic, however. I just have a personal distaste for actually regarding such wonderful ideals as though they were physical things. Its tacky, really, and does little to actually show the industry that we're tired of stupidity around here.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
There's a comedic relief somewhere in this post. I just know it.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Vantras
The word is moot. It would be difficult for a written argument to be mute. Personally I agree with the OP or the original linked thread. AOC imho is an abomination. It is the frankenstein of games. Clearly seems to be like the devs sat around and took the "best" of every game that was a hit and tried to throw it in thier game. Unfortunately what turned out was some sort of pasted together three legged beast that is barely ecognizable as a 2008 MMO. I cannot honestly think of a single thing that AOC does better than any of a variety of games on the market. It didnt advance combat, grouping, quests, exploring, crafting, the economy, graphics, dungeon crawling, 1v1 pvp'ing, group pvp/ing, siege pvp'ing, huge battle pvp'ing, raiding-etc. etc. In EVERY one of those catergories there are games (several) that do it better and more creatively than AOC. Sure AOC is pretty, sure the combat is "different"-but does that really add up to a next generation AAA title. When grouping, the economy, pvp, trades, dungeon crawls, exploring are all horrifiically broken it leaves a rather shallow game. Can you AOC guys really and truly say that AOC moves the genre forward? Personally I do hope it fails with a terrific explosion. I really would hate to see any future corporate types looking to AOC's success as some sort of model. To see future games patterned on AOC would be a total disaster-i simply cannot think of a single thing worthy of imitation in the entire game. and fwiw it ran smooth as silk on my computer...before we get into all of that sillyness...
So you have experienced each and everyone of these area's in AoC? Its a nice list you have, but where is the substance / backing up? I think it does move the genre forward in some areas, not all on your 'list' granted, but you know how can you categorically state that it failed in areas such as economy and siege battles when the game is but a couple of weeks old and no one has experienced a full on siege yet?
I'm happy it ran fine for you, but at least get off tortage before making exagerations you dont have the proof to back up.
Where's your extensive grouping review, with impressions on how the classes work together, instead of your reliance on standard tank relies on healer syndrome.
Exploring? you been to all four corners of the game?
What crafting experience did you have? Did you even make anything?
Graphical wise its the best looking game out there imo, a view shared by many people. So its Dx9 and it still kicks ass.
1v1 PvP? did you get ganked or something? maybe a few times? Do you have indepth knowledge of your class its abilities, fully fledged feat tree, and experience of other classes?
Raiding occurs only at lvl 80, are you there yet? Have you been to all the dungeons? Have you done at least one 24 man raid yet?
Did you ever read the class descriptions over at tentonhammer.com? They are nearly all dis-similar to other a-typical character classes out there.
Ever played an mmo where a priest can do more damage than a rogue, where the more damage they do the better they heal?
Can you name another mmorpg that does real time active blocking and attacking? DDO sure, AoC you have control of where you defend yourself from positional attacks.
Can you name another mmorpg where you can attack in real time from a mount?
Corporate types, will be looking at the interest AoC has gained an no doubt, imitations will come.
Can you honestly not say your blinded by hatred and cant even see the good in the game? for whatever reason.
The combat is more evolutionary rather than revolutionary for me.
By the way its their not thier, and silliness is with an 'i', thanks for playing grammar police today!
Back to reality, the game will have been released 2 weeks tomorrow in Europe, sure it has bugs and a few issues here and there, what mmorpg doesnt at release. Knocking it on half of the points on your list is just too pre-emptive.
Of course people dont have to be enthusiastic or waving their hands in rapture about the games issues, they are there for all to see, but at least they are doing something about it, better than nothing at all.
And its wrong to compare this game size in multiplayer sieges to online shooters..
We have what we have, a game with identified known issues from the company and community and a plan to fix it up better. We will see what happens. Right now its more than playable for most and plenty worthy of its best seller position.
Sorry it failed you on areas you havent tried yet, maybe you should of let that stop you before you brought it, seeing how strong you feel against the game. Its not as if there was plenty of info on the core of the game out there for a long time before release. Plus going back to the original post, I posted the flaws in the argument were wrong for PvP, leaving it just a game that had zones, which was mentioned throughout developement a few yrs ago.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
*Yawn*
Yes, we all get it, Darkfall is "vaporware" because it's been in development for ages.
Instead of spending valuable time marketing the game and making as much media noise as possible to get people sold like countless other let-down titles in the past, perhaps they're actually more concerned with developing their ideal game. That's just my own rational stance on the matter, though.
I would follow such rational stances. That is, I would right up until I realized that there are many free and perfectly available options. Some that take little to no time at all. Believe it or not, they need spend no money...and mere minutes of time to provide the "evidence" people clamor for. I have little doubts they had "plans" for a game. My doubts center on the reality of how far along they really are...and how much of the moon they can actually GRAB.
Oh...and it doesn't help trying to take a rational stance when the lead guy around there makes statements like "We're using bot programs to bug test! Its totally gonna work!".
I digress...it neither here nor there in regard to this actual topic, however. I just have a personal distaste for actually regarding such wonderful ideals as though they were physical things. Its tacky, really, and does little to actually show the industry that we're tired of stupidity around here.
The majority seem to think that there's very little evidence to suggest the tangible existence of Darkfall, when, in fact, there's plenty. You just have to find the information, examine it, and come to your own conclusion, which I have. There have been many interviews, reports and demonstrations to support it. The main website isn't really a great indicator of the progress that takes place in their studio, you really have to dig it up via insider info or obscure findings. The thing is, they don't care about exposure, bad press, good press and all that BS, they just want to design a game they would want to play and everything else will follow suit.
EQ2 has mounted combat as well, and even has that one missing dimension
My point though was that mounted combat has been in the feature pool from the infancy of the genre, and even with the other limitations of UO engine, mounted combat in it had some nice dynamics - Dodging while you were readying your weapon, riding close, hit, take distance...
hahahah ya dont make me laugh...2 years ago it could beat any mmo that was released THEN...but now i dont think so...hell even UT3 has better technology than oblivion and its not even a rpg lol
Soo. UT3 has a huge, seamless world? That is pretty advanced technology. You think technology is only pixel shaders?
As someone else said, there is so much more to games than graphics. If we as gamers learned that, maybe we would be getting better games.
hahahah ya dont make me laugh...2 years ago it could beat any mmo that was released THEN...but now i dont think so...hell even UT3 has better technology than oblivion and its not even a rpg lol
Soo. UT3 has a huge, seamless world? That is pretty advanced technology. You think technology is only pixel shaders?
As someone else said, there is so much more to games than graphics. If we as gamers learned that, maybe we would be getting better games.
the point of games are to enjoy them not talk about the graphics. i can careless for graphics i all i care about is the game play and how much fun the game is.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
The AoC hype machine has been hard to see through. They talked the talk, and many of the key words rang true in DF'er's hearts.
Since t hey covered it so vigilantly in NDA/limited beta, it was hard to evaluate, since there was only hype to go on.
And some of their huge buzzwords was PvP, sieging, city building and their new combat system. And those sounded like challengers to the DF system.
I think it has been a shock to many to see what they did to the MM part - not only PvP'ers looking for a break from the mold.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently. Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
The AoC hype machine has been hard to see through. They talked the talk, and many of the key words rang true in DF'er's hearts.
Since t hey covered it so vigilantly in NDA/limited beta, it was hard to evaluate, since there was only hype to go on.
And one of their huge buzzwords was PvP and their new combat system. And those sounded like challengers to the DF system.
I think it has been a shock to many to see what they did to the MM part - not only PvP'ers looking for a break from the mold.
After a few years of reading developers journals and such you learn how to pick things apart and read through the lines. I was not surprised at ALL by what happened to AoC. I was a large supporter of it until I started hearing reports of the cuts being made during beta, like the killing of 8 directional combat. Read through the lies and you should be fine.
Comments
I hope it does great. We could use some more quality gaes in this genre. No more Neo-Korean Clone garbage, or failed attempts at revamps of doomed MMO's.
I don't think any MMO vet would say "An MMORPG should feel like [this]". Choice is a beautiful thing and that desire for choice is why we don't just have a few mega-corporate MMO's. I can't agree with anyone who writes unfounded, unintelligible nonsense like what was linked in the original post.
" How can they accept being confined with technology more limiting than the singleplayer game Oblivion?"
Whoa. Someone didn't play Oblivion with mods. Ever. Bethesda Softworks is one of the few companies out there who make mountains using molehill technology. Want an expansion? Build it yourself! New buildings, textures, scripts, engine functions? BAM.... community made, free and effective.
Only on the PC Though. L2Not360.
Maybe I stroked-out, but I could've sworn that the Corvette and Geonosian Cave were instanced in SWG.
I agree Terranah, as much as I bitch and complain now ... SWG is still one of my favorite MMOs. The MMO genre has never seen, and most likely will never see again, a community like that game had.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I think you misunderstood me. I never criticized Oblivion. Isn't it a huge compliment to a singleplayer game that its technology on many fronts can beat the newest MMOG on the block?
The shame is on AoC - not on Oblivion.
The shame is on AoC - not on Oblivion.
hahahah ya dont make me laugh...2 years ago it could beat any mmo that was released THEN...but now i dont think so...hell even UT3 has better technology than oblivion and its not even a rpg lol
I think you misunderstood me. I never criticized Oblivion. Isn't it a huge compliment to a singleplayer game that its technology on many fronts can beat the newest MMOG on the block?
The shame is on AoC - not on Oblivion.
hahahah ya dont make me laugh...2 years ago it could beat any mmo that was released THEN...but now i dont think so...hell even UT3 has better technology than oblivion and its not even a rpg lol
You DO realize there is more to gaming technology than simple graphic advances, right?
That said, this particular matter made me realize how neat (notice, I said neat...not 100% FUNCTIONAL) it would be if users could craft their own content in MMO's as they do in Oblivion. It would be rather nice...and I feel that, at least in some way, the MMO genre needs to build up its "player driven and created content" if it intends to remain as powerful a market as it is today.
I love how a number of people were claiming that AoC was going to overshadow Darkfall, that it was its arch nemesis and that it was going to revolutionize the MMO genre. Oh how sad and embarrassed those pathetic individuals must be currently.
Folks, Darkfall is the quintessential tribute to how MMOs, or shall I call them persistent universes, should be: Unrestricted, massive and seamless.
Forgive me if this has been said already, I only read the first 40 posts.
NEWSFLASH
You cannot 'teleport' to a different instance in a PvP fight to escape.
You cannot zone out when engaged in a PvP fight to escape.
Instead of theory put it into practice and you will see for yourself.
The game zones are very much like EQ2's feel.
On a side note Funcom employees people who worked on EQ, UO and SWG, thats content and design staff.
WoW's BG are limited in player size, So is Guild Wars, and so will Warhammers instanced scenerio area's (granted they have open pvp too).
Thing is AoC's PvP area's for sieges are bigger than any other zoned gamed PvP Maps and they offer more people in them than any other zoned mmorpg type of game area.
The content of the quoted first post is mute at best - comparing non mmorpg games to AoC is FLAWED.
The argument was over before it began. Which leaves you with the OPINION of I DONT LIKE ZONED GAMES - hope you was kicking up a fuss like this when EQ was released then? No? Why not?
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
*Yawn*
Yes, we all get it, Darkfall is "vaporware" because it's been in development for ages.
Instead of spending valuable time marketing the game and making as much media noise as possible to get people sold like countless other let-down titles in the past, perhaps they're actually more concerned with developing their ideal game. That's just my own rational stance on the matter, though.
The word is moot. It would be difficult for a written argument to be mute.
Personally I agree with the OP or the original linked thread. AOC imho is an abomination. It is the frankenstein of games. Clearly seems to be like the devs sat around and took the "best" of every game that was a hit and tried to throw it in thier game. Unfortunately what turned out was some sort of pasted together three legged beast that is barely ecognizable as a 2008 MMO.
I cannot honestly think of a single thing that AOC does better than any of a variety of games on the market. It didnt advance
combat,
grouping,
quests,
exploring,
crafting,
the economy,
graphics,
dungeon crawling,
1v1 pvp'ing,
group pvp/ing,
siege pvp'ing,
huge battle pvp'ing,
raiding-etc. etc.
In EVERY one of those catergories there are games (several) that do it better and more creatively than AOC.
Sure AOC is pretty, sure the combat is "different"-but does that really add up to a next generation AAA title. When grouping, the economy, pvp, trades, dungeon crawls, exploring are all horrifiically broken it leaves a rather shallow game. Can you AOC guys really and truly say that AOC moves the genre forward?
Personally I do hope it fails with a terrific explosion. I really would hate to see any future corporate types looking to AOC's success as some sort of model. To see future games patterned on AOC would be a total disaster-i simply cannot think of a single thing worthy of imitation in the entire game.
and fwiw it ran smooth as silk on my computer...before we get into all of that sillyness...
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
*Yawn*
Yes, we all get it, Darkfall is "vaporware" because it's been in development for ages.
Instead of spending valuable time marketing the game and making as much media noise as possible to get people sold like countless other let-down titles in the past, perhaps they're actually more concerned with developing their ideal game. That's just my own rational stance on the matter, though.
I would follow such rational stances. That is, I would right up until I realized that there are many free and perfectly available options. Some that take little to no time at all. Believe it or not, they need spend no money...and mere minutes of time to provide the "evidence" people clamor for. I have little doubts they had "plans" for a game. My doubts center on the reality of how far along they really are...and how much of the moon they can actually GRAB.
Oh...and it doesn't help trying to take a rational stance when the lead guy around there makes statements like "We're using bot programs to bug test! Its totally gonna work!".
I digress...it neither here nor there in regard to this actual topic, however. I just have a personal distaste for actually regarding such wonderful ideals as though they were physical things. Its tacky, really, and does little to actually show the industry that we're tired of stupidity around here.
There's a comedic relief somewhere in this post. I just know it.
So you have experienced each and everyone of these area's in AoC? Its a nice list you have, but where is the substance / backing up? I think it does move the genre forward in some areas, not all on your 'list' granted, but you know how can you categorically state that it failed in areas such as economy and siege battles when the game is but a couple of weeks old and no one has experienced a full on siege yet?
I'm happy it ran fine for you, but at least get off tortage before making exagerations you dont have the proof to back up.
Where's your extensive grouping review, with impressions on how the classes work together, instead of your reliance on standard tank relies on healer syndrome.
Exploring? you been to all four corners of the game?
What crafting experience did you have? Did you even make anything?
Graphical wise its the best looking game out there imo, a view shared by many people. So its Dx9 and it still kicks ass.
1v1 PvP? did you get ganked or something? maybe a few times? Do you have indepth knowledge of your class its abilities, fully fledged feat tree, and experience of other classes?
Raiding occurs only at lvl 80, are you there yet? Have you been to all the dungeons? Have you done at least one 24 man raid yet?
Did you ever read the class descriptions over at tentonhammer.com? They are nearly all dis-similar to other a-typical character classes out there.
Ever played an mmo where a priest can do more damage than a rogue, where the more damage they do the better they heal?
Can you name another mmorpg that does real time active blocking and attacking? DDO sure, AoC you have control of where you defend yourself from positional attacks.
Can you name another mmorpg where you can attack in real time from a mount?
Corporate types, will be looking at the interest AoC has gained an no doubt, imitations will come.
Can you honestly not say your blinded by hatred and cant even see the good in the game? for whatever reason.
The combat is more evolutionary rather than revolutionary for me.
By the way its their not thier, and silliness is with an 'i', thanks for playing grammar police today!
Back to reality, the game will have been released 2 weeks tomorrow in Europe, sure it has bugs and a few issues here and there, what mmorpg doesnt at release. Knocking it on half of the points on your list is just too pre-emptive.
Of course people dont have to be enthusiastic or waving their hands in rapture about the games issues, they are there for all to see, but at least they are doing something about it, better than nothing at all.
And its wrong to compare this game size in multiplayer sieges to online shooters..
We have what we have, a game with identified known issues from the company and community and a plan to fix it up better. We will see what happens. Right now its more than playable for most and plenty worthy of its best seller position.
Sorry it failed you on areas you havent tried yet, maybe you should of let that stop you before you brought it, seeing how strong you feel against the game. Its not as if there was plenty of info on the core of the game out there for a long time before release. Plus going back to the original post, I posted the flaws in the argument were wrong for PvP, leaving it just a game that had zones, which was mentioned throughout developement a few yrs ago.
Which would be great if Darkfall was real. Being that it does not yet actually exist, it is a rather poor tribute to a universe at all...let alone a persistent one. As for right now, it is the MOST restricted, least massive, and most seamed world of them all. Getting to see the game requires you work for them (assuming that is true), and even then entering the world requires an 8 hour plus load time as you 'zone' into greece and hope you are allowed access.
Now, you are quite right that AoC revolutionized NOTHING. They suck, and I agree. But, lets not get involved in fairy tales about magical "easter bunnies" when discussing ACTUAL games providing ACTUAL effects on the industry.
*Yawn*
Yes, we all get it, Darkfall is "vaporware" because it's been in development for ages.
Instead of spending valuable time marketing the game and making as much media noise as possible to get people sold like countless other let-down titles in the past, perhaps they're actually more concerned with developing their ideal game. That's just my own rational stance on the matter, though.
I would follow such rational stances. That is, I would right up until I realized that there are many free and perfectly available options. Some that take little to no time at all. Believe it or not, they need spend no money...and mere minutes of time to provide the "evidence" people clamor for. I have little doubts they had "plans" for a game. My doubts center on the reality of how far along they really are...and how much of the moon they can actually GRAB.
Oh...and it doesn't help trying to take a rational stance when the lead guy around there makes statements like "We're using bot programs to bug test! Its totally gonna work!".
I digress...it neither here nor there in regard to this actual topic, however. I just have a personal distaste for actually regarding such wonderful ideals as though they were physical things. Its tacky, really, and does little to actually show the industry that we're tired of stupidity around here.
The majority seem to think that there's very little evidence to suggest the tangible existence of Darkfall, when, in fact, there's plenty. You just have to find the information, examine it, and come to your own conclusion, which I have. There have been many interviews, reports and demonstrations to support it. The main website isn't really a great indicator of the progress that takes place in their studio, you really have to dig it up via insider info or obscure findings. The thing is, they don't care about exposure, bad press, good press and all that BS, they just want to design a game they would want to play and everything else will follow suit.
DDO: realtime blocking, positional combat
UO: mounted combat, so it's definitely nothing new in the genre...
Playing: AC2
Played: UO, DaoC, Horizons, Ryzom, WAR, LotRO, Eve, VG...
I agree with DDO.
UO is 2D though.
EQ2 has mounted combat as well, and even has that one missing dimension
My point though was that mounted combat has been in the feature pool from the infancy of the genre, and even with the other limitations of UO engine, mounted combat in it had some nice dynamics - Dodging while you were readying your weapon, riding close, hit, take distance...
Playing: AC2
Played: UO, DaoC, Horizons, Ryzom, WAR, LotRO, Eve, VG...
It's actually isometric.
2D isometric. Fixed camera angle. Different beast.
As someone else said, there is so much more to games than graphics. If we as gamers learned that, maybe we would be getting better games.
see below browers screwed up
As someone else said, there is so much more to games than graphics. If we as gamers learned that, maybe we would be getting better games.
the point of games are to enjoy them not talk about the graphics. i can careless for graphics i all i care about is the game play and how much fun the game is.
The AoC hype machine has been hard to see through. They talked the talk, and many of the key words rang true in DF'er's hearts.
Since t hey covered it so vigilantly in NDA/limited beta, it was hard to evaluate, since there was only hype to go on.
And some of their huge buzzwords was PvP, sieging, city building and their new combat system. And those sounded like challengers to the DF system.
I think it has been a shock to many to see what they did to the MM part - not only PvP'ers looking for a break from the mold.
How can one reason with blind faith?
The AoC hype machine has been hard to see through. They talked the talk, and many of the key words rang true in DF'er's hearts.
Since t hey covered it so vigilantly in NDA/limited beta, it was hard to evaluate, since there was only hype to go on.
And one of their huge buzzwords was PvP and their new combat system. And those sounded like challengers to the DF system.
I think it has been a shock to many to see what they did to the MM part - not only PvP'ers looking for a break from the mold.
After a few years of reading developers journals and such you learn how to pick things apart and read through the lines. I was not surprised at ALL by what happened to AoC. I was a large supporter of it until I started hearing reports of the cuts being made during beta, like the killing of 8 directional combat. Read through the lies and you should be fine.
Darkfall Travelogues!