Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose? Its not like your getting to enjoy the game or anything you may have accomplished right now. I personally do not care what they do just get the game going again so some of us new players can begin our adventures in Atys. Gripe ,complain do what you will the truth is its all gone right now so if its a wipe or not makes no difference.
I think someone in the company that owns ryzom (Spiderweb?) is observing the community. And I think that someone there tries to get an idea of the feelings of the player concerning several themes.
And I also think that the topic "wipe yes or no" is something that they have to consider. And if the over-all impression is: NO WIPE they may tend to keep the database instead of dropping it if the whole community favors a wipe.
So the discussion about it isn't completely useless, I think the overall-impression concerning that topic can be important.
I agree with you and when I said I personally think they should start new it was my opinion there are alot of people who like to launch with a game whether it be a new server or a new game launch. I respect all players and if they choose not to wipe them I am happy with that as well. It was my opinion and mine alone on whether or not they start new or not. I guess what I was trying to say is we do not need vets complaining about it since we have a shot at playing this game again be thankful this game is getting a second chance it deserves it because its a great game. I think it was not advertised correctly,plus it had alot of competion. I think now is the time for them to relaunch it tho before Lich King releases,Warhammer releases ,and while there are some disapponted conan players they have a good oppurtunity right now with this game.
[I'm not a native speaker so please excuse spelling and grammar faults ] Through a wipe a few players would win a little, but many would lose much. 1) The loss caused by a wipe isn't just about stupid levels or mats, it's about the loss of the virtual soul of your avatar, his life that is the sum of his abilities, his souvenirs collected over the years, his friendslist. If you create your character new from scratch, it's NOT the same character. The stories about the temple wars are not the same if the temples of a new server aren't the product of lived history anymore, the history WE, the players forged together. The products of all the diplomatic negotiations, the results of hate and love between the chars - all would be turned to ashes. Of course there will be new stories, but there will be deep deep scars and breaks in the character's profile that would make RP very hard, without introducing ridiculous things like divine intervention or memory loss. With a wipe all characters would die. There will be always an "old" avatar who died in a kind of nuclear catastrophy and burnt with all his skills, memories, souvenirs and achievements to ashes. "Make a new one." Would you say to parents who lost their child: "Make a new one?" Of course this example is exaggerated, but I think you get the point. And no, I'm NOT looking forward to the death of my avatar I've built up over three years, the loss of the planet WE changed, that carries OUR footsteps, the destruction of the last three years of roleplay, fights, events, no, im NOT looking forward to this. Ryzom once advertised that the players can change the planet and the planet's history. So we DID change the planet with our avatars, with our fights, alliances, events. We DID write history. How can give someone a shit on all this and shout: "Wipe it, wipe it"? Everyone who wants to see this history die, who wants to wipe off the things we've built up, kicks the soul of Ryzom by kicking one of the core thoughts of the game.
2) How long would the "wipe-effect" last? The "good old times" wouldn't be brought back through this. The Old Ones know about the level spots, the boss mobs, the trek routes, the OP-tactics. The feeling to discover a world is tied to your brain, not to your levels. A wipe wouldn't bring it back.
New players can't take any profit out of this. The old ones will outlevel them with ease, they take control over the OPs, the level and foraging spots, the economy. The damage of a wipe as stated above would be done, but nothing new or better would be achieved for new players. How much time does a player need to level the most important skills (Melee, heal, ele) to 250 if he knows about the spots and maybe supported by crystals? Two, three months? After one month there would be the first who have elemental magics on 250, after two months the first master foragers, after three months the first multi-250ies. And these people would then think: "Oh, great. I'm now there where I was before the wipe..." and then I'm curious what they think if they compare their 3-Months-Grinding-Fun against the loss of 3 years. Let it be four or five months and the old ones got back their 250 in the important skills and the oh-so-great "Let's start new" effect (that was diminished by our old knowledge anyway!) is over. You would punish the decent loyal long-term players that do events, RP and don't only think about grinding. And you would push the extreme grinders and aggressive powergamers. And this helps the community? This helps new players? This helps the company to bring Ryzom forward? And the newbies? They would face overcrowded levelspots. They can't outlevel our knowledge. They would come into the old guilds that reformed. After three months after the wipe the newbies wouldn't face another atys than one that hasn't been wiped out. So where is the effect, the profit of a wipe for newbies? Maybe you could attract new players through a wipe? "Come play Ryzom, we've deleted all the avatars of our long-term loyal customers!" That sounds good in my ears, I cant wait to join such a game. Maybe if I join the game and if im lucky I will have the chance that my avatar will get deleted too... Sorry for the polemics, but I can't the see benefit for new players or a benefit for Ryzom in a wipe. To sacrifice all that we've gone through in the last three years, all that we've built up in politics, game culture, history, events for just 3 Months of heavy grinding with NO profit for new players. *shakes head* The wipe-effect will be absolutely short-term. In skills, in guilds, in dappers, in OPs.
3) A wipe won't bring back the old feeling. The thrill when you first entered the roots, the excitement when you first met a huge named... that's not tied to your levels. You won't have the same thrill. It's an illusion that you will get back that feeling through a wipe.
Yes, I will play Ryzom even if there is a wipe. But I would hate the wipe. It's the death of OUR planet and OUR history for some months of grind-fest, leading to the same results we have now with no use for new players. Think twice before you want a wipe. Consider short-term to long-term. Consider what we lose and what we gain. Advertisement and development are the keys. No wipe. A wipe won't attract new players but has the potential of repelling old long-term loyal paying customers. What kind of silly marketing strategy is that?
Very well said here I appreciate this response thx.
After a wipe you would face the same problem again after one or two months - the starter regions would be as empty as before. A wipe isn't a solution. I play three years now and i still have so many melee-Levels (one-hand and two-hand) that are low. And if I look around in my guild there are even more that have Levels below 100. In Ryzom you will hardly found someone who hasn't some low-skills even after years of playing. That's one of the biggest advantages of ryzom.
If they add some things to the starter areas that would cause the higher levels to return to those areas is a good idea. Take wow for instance they kept Auction Houses in the Home cities in order to keep vets returning to the starter areas to make the game feel full and alive to new players this was a very good idea and its been a win for that game I think. I am done with wow it was fun for what it was I still yearn for a game similar to SWG pre-cu and this game has the feel it once had. I am playing Swg and EQ2 currently until Ryzom comes back.
Originally posted by green13 And this is where the 'wipe' argument turns circular. Not meaning to pick on you Seiren, just your post was the most recent.
No worries we are all here discussing the topic, I take nothing personal, and my post was me being sarcastic. A wipe of the characters is unlikely. It isnt a concern. And I stated that several post before the one you quoted. I think Rushin was being sarcastic as well.
I will point out that Im an old fan of Ryzom; my characters on Atispotle have levels in the 250 and not only on my main character. I know the hard work and journey of a character on Atys. I had characters divided in two accounts. My guilds name is edge on the Kami temple in Pyr along the many guilds that fought during the Temple Wars. I have as much to lose as any other player who has been on Ryzom since 2005. I have a nice gold Aen Armor that is priceless for-yubos-sake.
The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think thats what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.
I personally would love to get back to Atys and find it all new again, familiar, but nothing as I remember it. It may be selfish of me to want that, but it isnt because I havent work hard and done the grind, I have and would do it again. I want Ryzom back and now that it has a third chance I want it improved and at its potential. Thats not asking too much, is it?
Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose?
I have answered this question already, but it's a long thread and anyone could be forgiven for missing bits.
I'd probably not come back. Losing my own character wouldn't be an issue. I was only a couple of months old - around 160'ish in harvesting and a few crafts and a bit under 200 in a couple of magic schools. A wipe wouldn't be a terrible loss for me.
I object, and argue as I do, on principle.
Because this "wipe" campaign is attempted vandalism. Other people have something that you (I refer to wipers in general) don't want them to have so you want it destroyed. The new owners doing this would be an unconscionable and unforgivable breach of trust.
Anyone who wants a fresh start can delete their own character. Petitioning the owners to do anything to other peoples' characters is a form of thuggery.
Dude if came to a wipe or no Ryzom what would you choose?
I have answered this question already, but it's a long thread and anyone could be forgiven for missing bits.
I'd probably not come back. Losing my own character wouldn't be an issue. I was only a couple of months old - around 160'ish in harvesting and a few crafts and a bit under 200 in a couple of magic schools. A wipe wouldn't be a terrible loss for me.
I object, and argue as I do, on principle.
Because this "wipe" campaign is attempted vandalism. Other people have something that you (I refer to wipers in general) don't want them to have so you want it destroyed. The new owners doing this would be an unconscionable and unforgivable breach of trust.
Anyone who wants a fresh start can delete their own character. Petitioning the owners to do anything to other peoples' characters is a form of thuggery.
Please do not misunderstand what I have said here I do not wish at all for anyone to lose anything they achieved in Ryzom ,I am simpley stating that it would be better that it start as a wipe if it has to than to have no ryzom at all to play. I think I stated this in above posts, but for some reason it was missed here it is again:P I really do want ryzom back up and running because I really liked the trial and hope to experience the entire game . Please do not mistake my comments as Anti-Vets I am not against the vets of this game it is the vets who made it what it was and I look forward to playing with them again if its a wipe or not thx.
The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think that’s what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.
I only played for a few months but my impression was that the incomplete features were all over the place, starting on Silan and going all the way up.
Wiping the player database would only give them time to fix things if all those incomplete features were "end-game" content.
And they're not.
In fact, my experience was that whenever I encountered those incomplete/imperfect features, it was the existing higher level player base that stepped neatly into the breach - which made the game playable.
Please do not misunderstand what I have said here I do not wish at all for anyone to lose anything they achieved in Ryzom ,I am simpley stating that it would be better that it start as a wipe if it has to than to have no ryzom at all to play. I think I stated this in above posts, but for some reason it was missed here it is again:P
I don't think I misunderstood you.
Originally posted by Battleskar
Personally I think a complete wipe would be a good thing they would probably gain new subscribers who are interested (Like Me) in starting from scratch with everyone else starting from the bottom as well.
Since Ryzom does appear to be returning, I don't see any point in comparing no Ryzom to a wiped-playerbase Ryzom.
The two alternatives on the table are a deliberately wiped-playerbase Ryzom and a fully restored Ryzom.
playerbase is small enough as it is without losing half of it due to wiping the servers
amazes me anyone can be daunted by the high level people in ryzom as I've seen it 10000000 times some nub become a vet (in levels at least) within weeks. Ryzom is far less about levels and more about knowledge in my opinion, the game actually *starts* when you hit your masters.
And this is where the 'wipe' argument turns circular. Not meaning to pick on you Seiren, just your post was the most recent.
No worries we are all here discussing the topic, I take nothing personal, and my post was me being sarcastic. A wipe of the characters is unlikely. It isn’t a concern. And I stated that several post before the one you quoted. I think Rushin was being sarcastic as well.
I will point out that I’m an old fan of Ryzom; my characters on Atispotle have levels in the 250 and not only on my main character. I know the hard work and journey of a character on Atys. I had characters divided in two accounts. My guild’s name is edge on the Kami temple in Pyr along the many guilds that fought during the Temple Wars. I have as much to lose as any other player who has been on Ryzom since 2005. I have a nice gold Aen Armor that is priceless for-yubos-sake.
The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think that’s what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.
I personally would love to get back to Atys and find it all new again, familiar, but nothing as I remember it. It may be selfish of me to want that, but it isn’t because I haven’t work hard and done the grind, I have and would do it again. I want Ryzom back and now that it has a third chance I want it improved and at its potential. That’s not asking too much, is it?
That wish is not selfish, I definitely can understand that. But I see some problems there:
If the changes are only small it wouldn't change anything to the problems of a wipe I've stated above. Whether there's wood instead of fibre or oil instead of sap here, whether the lake is on the right side instead of the left, that's not important and won't really give a new and exciting feeling.
If the changes are deeper and are about Gameplay the game would be down for about another year. And then the question is whether it's not more reliable for the company to keep the game running (and have some income - the server costs aren't dramatic it's the loan for the developers) and to patch these gameplay changes and expansions in the existing database without burning down the achievements of their most loyal customers.
I would love to see Ryzom developing. Not re-developing. I know the signature of Gilgameesh isn't meant that way, but it fits to the wipe-topic: "Pay to play - don't pay to replay."
The Saga of Ryzom just has begun, we started it and have written history. I want to continue that history and not throwing it away and starting from scratch. And even changes in forage spots, landscape and portals wouldn't justify the burn-down of the customer's achievements. Some exciting new additions to the "endgame" would be much more effective and more profitable and satisfying on a *long-term* than investing time in something (that was already finished and ready-to-play!) to give old players the feeling of the first days back.
And of course we're not discussing "wipe vs. no ryzom". That would be no question. If we didn't have any choice if they would say: "Sorry, we only can restart ryzom if we drop the database." I think everybody would beg them to start Ryzom again. But that's not the thing we're discussing here.
I still would say: keep the characters, Atys was running good as it was, advertise for new players, invest the time and money in region expansions, exciting events and OP-revamp and Ryzom will rock for old players and new ones. We don't have to re-invent the wheel. Improve the existing one, it's not that bad.
---------------------- Playing: Ryzom, Vanguard, Everquest 2 Cancelled: RF online, WoW, Sword of the New World, Rappelz Looking forward to: Spellborn
Anyone know where i can get the Klients chat program, its been a long time since i played and well i'm so burnt out with other games i wanna keep up on the first mmo i every played..hell i still have a sealed up pre-ordered SOR box lol..i had ordered 2 of them but my friend had changed his mind.
Anyways would like to get the Klient if anyone knows where to find it...
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Anyone know where i can get the Klients chat program, its been a long time since i played and well i'm so burnt out with other games i wanna keep up on the first mmo i every played..hell i still have a sealed up pre-ordered SOR box lol..i had ordered 2 of them but my friend had changed his mind. Anyways would like to get the Klient if anyone knows where to find it...
Kaetemi provided this link from the kami alliance mirror, it should still work:
Interesting discussion indeed. As a player who only tried Ryzom way back in the days before getting too busy with other games, I must say I see pros and cons with both wiping and not. And my thoughts are not really specific to Ryzom, but to a game in this situation.
If you wipe you risk alienating a substantial amount of old-time players. Some will have no problem starting over, others will have. The percentage of players who would come back if there was no wipe, but won't if there is a wipe, is pure guesswork - even a poll would only sample a fraction of the community. I dare say nobody has good basis for claiming they know the answer.
If you don't wipe you risk making the game less appealing to new players. My impression is that most MMOG players prefer to join a game (or server) early if they are to stick with it over time. Just look at the rush on new WoW servers each time one opens. A game "re-released" full of veteran characters may seem significantly less appealing to a newcomer. Some may argue that the newcomers will see the veterans leave them behind in levels anyway if there's a wipe, but it's not about levelling equally fast - it's about starting on even ground. Again, I doubt anybody can make any solid estimate of how many new players would join in either case.
So, assuming there are no technical limitations for either option, it's weighting a guesswork number of veteran players one might lose against a guesswork number of new players who may be unwilling to join a game full of veteran characters.
If you don't wipe you risk making the game less appealing to new players. My impression is that most MMOG players prefer to join a game (or server) early if they are to stick with it over time. Just look at the rush on new WoW servers each time one opens.
And how many players end up moving back to one of the more populated servers for their more stable communities and economies? I was in a WoW guild that decided to move to one of those fresh new servers... and it lasted for three months before we moved back.
My experience, with every mmo I've played, is that new players gravitate towards the most populated servers, not the emptiest ones. Otherwise, wouldn't all those WoW servers have roughly equal populations?
Even putting those considerations aside, new servers on WoW are a poor analogy to a complete player wipe on Ryzom - because existing higher level players can and do transfer to those new servers on WoW.
Also, when I started playing Ryzom last year, the noob island was quite crowded. The free trial was attracting plenty of new folk. IMO the problem in keeping them was the rocky transition from Silan to the mainland.
And the point that's been made repeatedly throughout this thread, but which people who haven't played Ryzom can't understand, is that Ryzom isn't like WoW or any of the standard mmos. Higher level players aren't competition, in any way, shape or form.
1) There's no ganking noobies, anywhere, any time. The only open pvp areas are fairly high-level. Nooblets would have a hard time even finding their way into them without help.
2) The pvp is mostly large scale stuff and it doesn't take long to build up enough skill to make yourself at least useful in those battles.
3) The only gear worth wearing is made by players. Wipe the playerbase and you take out all the gear for a while too.
4) With it's skill system, higher "level" players can essentially drop back to a nooblet's level by using lower level skills. The kind of level disparity you see in other mmos doesn't have the same meaning in Ryzom.
Has any mmo ever wiped their playerbase? Some argue potential players may feel threatened (sic) by existing higher level players - but how many more would feel threatened by developers willing to wipe existing players' characters to attract new players?
The only thing a player wipe would achieve is that special kind of notoriety that SOE enjoys in the mmo community.
Personally I wouldn't mind a wipe at all but I don't see it being a wise move.
From what I saw the newbie area has always been pretty well populated.
So the problem is retaining new players. Ryzom needs adjustment to make that start happening.
If a wipe is done it would be hard to get good data on whether changes are growing the plyerbase or not. For example higher level players wouldn't be leaving Ryzom at a normal rate for a long time as it would take a long time for players to get their levels back.
And then a focus on identifying why players are leaving and at what levels would definitely help I would think.
Presuming of course that the new owners want to make a bundle rather than just running the game as is, keeping costs low, and make a little money.
The "let's restart together on the same basis"-feeling would be over after two or three months. It would be only temporary. The wipe of the database is permanent.
If a wipe is such a fine and good method to gain new motivated players, why don't the MMOs wipe their databases every two years? Right: becaus its damn frustrating, it's a loss of faith and the potential to lose old players is bigger than to catch new player's attention. I wouldn't join a MMO that is owned by a company that kicks their long-time-players in their butts this way.
You don't attract players through a wipe. You attract them by advertising.
You don't keep players through a wipe. You keep them with content.
As long as there is no technical reason, a wipe would be more harmful than useful for the game.
---------------------- Playing: Ryzom, Vanguard, Everquest 2 Cancelled: RF online, WoW, Sword of the New World, Rappelz Looking forward to: Spellborn
If a wipe is such a fine and good method to gain new motivated players, why don't the MMOs wipe their databases every two years?
To the best of my (limited) knowledge, the only online games that do this are a small number of Discworld derivative MUDs.
They have a hard level cap. Players reach it. The admin regularly wipe everyone. And their players come back to play the same content over and over and over.
But the number of players who find this system fun is very, very small. Probably because that kind of behaviour is practically clinically diagnostic.
People get attached to their characters, and the work they put into developing them.
It's hard to imagine a technical reason for a wipe at this point. The player database has survived other ownership changes, and we can already see that account information has clearly survived this transition (eg. forums).
I would find any technical reason for a wipe very suspicious.
I've read through this whole thread. I cannot find anyone in particular that I would like to quote and respond to, so I'll just say what I have to say.
I'm against a wipe. If a wipe were absolutely necessary, I would deal with it and try to replay (quitting soon afterwords).
I worked very hard to get into the veteran category. I'm not "elder of Atys," but I came in soon afterwords.
I have a few 250 skills (and many more lower skills). But, I know it took me 2 1/2-3 years to get just a few 250s, and with loads of help. Those skills were gotten while I was in high school, with no social life and no job, and they still took me that long to get.
If there was a wipe, I would never be able to consider myself "leet" again. Knowledgeable, yes. But I would never be able to back up my knowledge, because I don't have the RL time to get multiple 250s in a few months. I couldn't do it the first time in a few months.
But, gaining my levels back would be the worst of my problems if I had to deal with a wipe. My main character (Keiko) is like a piece of my soul. If she was to be destroyed, I would feel as if I had lost a piece of myself. (kind of like a really really really bad break up with someone you really really really love)
Keiko and I have been through so much together. There is no way I can just recreate that by starting a new character. I've tried it with new avatars on Ryzom (I made a new avatar on the Cho server, and...meh), and I've even tried to build a character on new games, which results in an epic fail on my part (yes, i wanted to use epic fail in a sentance).
So, in conclusion, I'm against a wipe. I'll try to play if there is a wipe, but like with every other game, I doubt I'll be able to stay long due to a lack of my soul.
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In response to the wipe gathering new players. I dont see it being very beneficial to anyone. Like many have mentioned, older players will just power level (IF they have the RL time) with their knowledge of the game, guilds will be rebuilt, along with alliances (see Kami/Kara Alliance) especially if outposts are still in play, and all will fall back into the same way of life...just without the "veterans" character back stories.
There needs to be content, advertisement, and a rework of the missions/quests (to begin with) to attract and keep new players, not a wipe. Mostly the advertisement and mission/quest rework for new players. Content for older players, and later new players (who will in turn become old players..with more content).
Of course, if the content isn't added (after the missions and ads), then the player base will falter, and Ryzom will be auctioned off again!
Some of the posts in this thread have mentioned differences between Ryzom and other games. Continuing in that vein, I'd point out that characters in Ryzom are not nearly so disposable as those in many other games.
Ryzom is generally not a game where you create a new character every time you feel like trying something new. You just start learning the new skills with your main character. Now, most people do have alts, but for the most part they spend the large majority of their time on one main. Over time that character becomes an ingrained part of you.
I am Sasi. Sasi is so much a part of me that the name stays with me wherever I go. Every game I play, my main character is as close to looking and acting like my Ryzom Sasi as I can manage. Every forum I register to join, my forum name is some variation of Sasi. Sick, isn't it?
Keiko mentions the pain of a wipe. We already know what that pain feels like. We felt it when the servers went down. We carried it with us, thinking the hole in our hearts was forever. Then the news came, Ryzom is returning. Wiping our characters now would be to rip out the scar tissue that has begun to form and make us bleed again.
Would I still play? Yep. I'd pull up my hundreds of screenshots of Sasi and recreate her appearance. I'd spend hours obsessing over getting every detail just right. I'd start her from scratch and I'd re-do everything. But the thing is, I'd be repeating myself. I've already done those things. I wouldn't trust the new owners, seeing that they had already, from the very beginning, hurt me. I'd be less likely to recruit new players to the game.
Now, given that our login data is still there, I'd be willing to bet that this is all just idle speculation. So I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'm just losing sleep waiting for the servers to come online.
P.S. I REALLY hate that this post editor doesn't work right in Firefox, or at all in Opera.
Now, given that our login data is still there, I'd be willing to bet that this is all just idle speculation. So I'm not losing any sleep over it.
I wouldn't even call it speculation - it's something.... more bizarre. Look at the original post - no mmo has ever deliberately wiped their playerbase before - so what possible reason would the OP have had for raising the question in this manner?
He was "99% sure" it would be a wipe. He was asked why and didn't answer.
It doesn't make any sense at all.
And look at the numbers - 60 people have voted in this silly poll and 70% for a wipe...
The danger is, as someone else has already pointed out in this thread, game developers are sometimes influenced by forum crazy talk or "player feedback". SWG's NGE was supposedly the result of "player feedback" and I've seen other examples like it, though none quite so spectacular.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either, but it's good that people are voicing their thoughts now, before Ryzom whooshes round the S-bend.
On a similar thread on the official Ryzom forums, 9 have voted for a wipe, and like 76 have voted against. The voters being avid Ryzom players. Long time customers, and so on...
I have to admit I was suspicious of the numbers here. Not only are the official forums populated by avid Ryzom players, they're also still not allowing new registrations?
So, eg. if someone were inclined to give a false impression about the popularity of a particular idea by, say, stacking a poll, it wouldn't be possible on the official forums?
Comments
I think someone in the company that owns ryzom (Spiderweb?) is observing the community. And I think that someone there tries to get an idea of the feelings of the player concerning several themes.
And I also think that the topic "wipe yes or no" is something that they have to consider. And if the over-all impression is: NO WIPE they may tend to keep the database instead of dropping it if the whole community favors a wipe.
So the discussion about it isn't completely useless, I think the overall-impression concerning that topic can be important.
I agree with you and when I said I personally think they should start new it was my opinion there are alot of people who like to launch with a game whether it be a new server or a new game launch. I respect all players and if they choose not to wipe them I am happy with that as well. It was my opinion and mine alone on whether or not they start new or not. I guess what I was trying to say is we do not need vets complaining about it since we have a shot at playing this game again be thankful this game is getting a second chance it deserves it because its a great game. I think it was not advertised correctly,plus it had alot of competion. I think now is the time for them to relaunch it tho before Lich King releases,Warhammer releases ,and while there are some disapponted conan players they have a good oppurtunity right now with this game.
Very well said here I appreciate this response thx.
If they add some things to the starter areas that would cause the higher levels to return to those areas is a good idea. Take wow for instance they kept Auction Houses in the Home cities in order to keep vets returning to the starter areas to make the game feel full and alive to new players this was a very good idea and its been a win for that game I think. I am done with wow it was fun for what it was I still yearn for a game similar to SWG pre-cu and this game has the feel it once had. I am playing Swg and EQ2 currently until Ryzom comes back.
No worries we are all here discussing the topic, I take nothing personal, and my post was me being sarcastic. A wipe of the characters is unlikely. It isnt a concern. And I stated that several post before the one you quoted. I think Rushin was being sarcastic as well.
I will point out that Im an old fan of Ryzom; my characters on Atispotle have levels in the 250 and not only on my main character. I know the hard work and journey of a character on Atys. I had characters divided in two accounts. My guilds name is edge on the Kami temple in Pyr along the many guilds that fought during the Temple Wars. I have as much to lose as any other player who has been on Ryzom since 2005. I have a nice gold Aen Armor that is priceless for-yubos-sake.
The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think thats what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.
I personally would love to get back to Atys and find it all new again, familiar, but nothing as I remember it. It may be selfish of me to want that, but it isnt because I havent work hard and done the grind, I have and would do it again. I want Ryzom back and now that it has a third chance I want it improved and at its potential. Thats not asking too much, is it?
I have answered this question already, but it's a long thread and anyone could be forgiven for missing bits.
I'd probably not come back. Losing my own character wouldn't be an issue. I was only a couple of months old - around 160'ish in harvesting and a few crafts and a bit under 200 in a couple of magic schools. A wipe wouldn't be a terrible loss for me.
I object, and argue as I do, on principle.
Because this "wipe" campaign is attempted vandalism. Other people have something that you (I refer to wipers in general) don't want them to have so you want it destroyed. The new owners doing this would be an unconscionable and unforgivable breach of trust.
Anyone who wants a fresh start can delete their own character. Petitioning the owners to do anything to other peoples' characters is a form of thuggery.
I have answered this question already, but it's a long thread and anyone could be forgiven for missing bits.
I'd probably not come back. Losing my own character wouldn't be an issue. I was only a couple of months old - around 160'ish in harvesting and a few crafts and a bit under 200 in a couple of magic schools. A wipe wouldn't be a terrible loss for me.
I object, and argue as I do, on principle.
Because this "wipe" campaign is attempted vandalism. Other people have something that you (I refer to wipers in general) don't want them to have so you want it destroyed. The new owners doing this would be an unconscionable and unforgivable breach of trust.
Anyone who wants a fresh start can delete their own character. Petitioning the owners to do anything to other peoples' characters is a form of thuggery.
Please do not misunderstand what I have said here I do not wish at all for anyone to lose anything they achieved in Ryzom ,I am simpley stating that it would be better that it start as a wipe if it has to than to have no ryzom at all to play. I think I stated this in above posts, but for some reason it was missed here it is again:P I really do want ryzom back up and running because I really liked the trial and hope to experience the entire game . Please do not mistake my comments as Anti-Vets I am not against the vets of this game it is the vets who made it what it was and I look forward to playing with them again if its a wipe or not thx.
The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think that’s what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.
I only played for a few months but my impression was that the incomplete features were all over the place, starting on Silan and going all the way up.
Wiping the player database would only give them time to fix things if all those incomplete features were "end-game" content.
And they're not.
In fact, my experience was that whenever I encountered those incomplete/imperfect features, it was the existing higher level player base that stepped neatly into the breach - which made the game playable.
I don't think I misunderstood you.
Since Ryzom does appear to be returning, I don't see any point in comparing no Ryzom to a wiped-playerbase Ryzom.
The two alternatives on the table are a deliberately wiped-playerbase Ryzom and a fully restored Ryzom.
playerbase is small enough as it is without losing half of it due to wiping the servers
amazes me anyone can be daunted by the high level people in ryzom as I've seen it 10000000 times some nub become a vet (in levels at least) within weeks. Ryzom is far less about levels and more about knowledge in my opinion, the game actually *starts* when you hit your masters.
No worries we are all here discussing the topic, I take nothing personal, and my post was me being sarcastic. A wipe of the characters is unlikely. It isn’t a concern. And I stated that several post before the one you quoted. I think Rushin was being sarcastic as well.
I will point out that I’m an old fan of Ryzom; my characters on Atispotle have levels in the 250 and not only on my main character. I know the hard work and journey of a character on Atys. I had characters divided in two accounts. My guild’s name is edge on the Kami temple in Pyr along the many guilds that fought during the Temple Wars. I have as much to lose as any other player who has been on Ryzom since 2005. I have a nice gold Aen Armor that is priceless for-yubos-sake.
The point was that a clean wipe would have to be well thought out giving Ryzom fans a fresh new world and that maybe with this third chance the developers can implement complete features. I think that’s what Rushin was stating and I agree with her.
I personally would love to get back to Atys and find it all new again, familiar, but nothing as I remember it. It may be selfish of me to want that, but it isn’t because I haven’t work hard and done the grind, I have and would do it again. I want Ryzom back and now that it has a third chance I want it improved and at its potential. That’s not asking too much, is it?
That wish is not selfish, I definitely can understand that. But I see some problems there:
If the changes are only small it wouldn't change anything to the problems of a wipe I've stated above. Whether there's wood instead of fibre or oil instead of sap here, whether the lake is on the right side instead of the left, that's not important and won't really give a new and exciting feeling.
If the changes are deeper and are about Gameplay the game would be down for about another year. And then the question is whether it's not more reliable for the company to keep the game running (and have some income - the server costs aren't dramatic it's the loan for the developers) and to patch these gameplay changes and expansions in the existing database without burning down the achievements of their most loyal customers.
I would love to see Ryzom developing. Not re-developing. I know the signature of Gilgameesh isn't meant that way, but it fits to the wipe-topic: "Pay to play - don't pay to replay."
The Saga of Ryzom just has begun, we started it and have written history. I want to continue that history and not throwing it away and starting from scratch. And even changes in forage spots, landscape and portals wouldn't justify the burn-down of the customer's achievements. Some exciting new additions to the "endgame" would be much more effective and more profitable and satisfying on a *long-term* than investing time in something (that was already finished and ready-to-play!) to give old players the feeling of the first days back.
And of course we're not discussing "wipe vs. no ryzom". That would be no question. If we didn't have any choice if they would say: "Sorry, we only can restart ryzom if we drop the database." I think everybody would beg them to start Ryzom again. But that's not the thing we're discussing here.
I still would say: keep the characters, Atys was running good as it was, advertise for new players, invest the time and money in region expansions, exciting events and OP-revamp and Ryzom will rock for old players and new ones. We don't have to re-invent the wheel. Improve the existing one, it's not that bad.
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Playing: Ryzom, Vanguard, Everquest 2
Cancelled: RF online, WoW, Sword of the New World, Rappelz
Looking forward to: Spellborn
Anyone know where i can get the Klients chat program, its been a long time since i played and well i'm so burnt out with other games i wanna keep up on the first mmo i every played..hell i still have a sealed up pre-ordered SOR box lol..i had ordered 2 of them but my friend had changed his mind.
Anyways would like to get the Klient if anyone knows where to find it...
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Kaetemi provided this link from the kami alliance mirror, it should still work:
www.kami-alliance.net/mirror/www.ryzom.com/data/Klient/chat.players.ee.zip
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
I'm just asking myself ... whay the new Ryzom company didn't made any announcements on the offcial forum?
It seems they prefer making "announcements" in Klients.
Interesting discussion indeed. As a player who only tried Ryzom way back in the days before getting too busy with other games, I must say I see pros and cons with both wiping and not. And my thoughts are not really specific to Ryzom, but to a game in this situation.
If you wipe you risk alienating a substantial amount of old-time players. Some will have no problem starting over, others will have. The percentage of players who would come back if there was no wipe, but won't if there is a wipe, is pure guesswork - even a poll would only sample a fraction of the community. I dare say nobody has good basis for claiming they know the answer.
If you don't wipe you risk making the game less appealing to new players. My impression is that most MMOG players prefer to join a game (or server) early if they are to stick with it over time. Just look at the rush on new WoW servers each time one opens. A game "re-released" full of veteran characters may seem significantly less appealing to a newcomer. Some may argue that the newcomers will see the veterans leave them behind in levels anyway if there's a wipe, but it's not about levelling equally fast - it's about starting on even ground. Again, I doubt anybody can make any solid estimate of how many new players would join in either case.
So, assuming there are no technical limitations for either option, it's weighting a guesswork number of veteran players one might lose against a guesswork number of new players who may be unwilling to join a game full of veteran characters.
Might as well flip a coin.
And how many players end up moving back to one of the more populated servers for their more stable communities and economies? I was in a WoW guild that decided to move to one of those fresh new servers... and it lasted for three months before we moved back.
My experience, with every mmo I've played, is that new players gravitate towards the most populated servers, not the emptiest ones. Otherwise, wouldn't all those WoW servers have roughly equal populations?
Even putting those considerations aside, new servers on WoW are a poor analogy to a complete player wipe on Ryzom - because existing higher level players can and do transfer to those new servers on WoW.
Also, when I started playing Ryzom last year, the noob island was quite crowded. The free trial was attracting plenty of new folk. IMO the problem in keeping them was the rocky transition from Silan to the mainland.
And the point that's been made repeatedly throughout this thread, but which people who haven't played Ryzom can't understand, is that Ryzom isn't like WoW or any of the standard mmos. Higher level players aren't competition, in any way, shape or form.
1) There's no ganking noobies, anywhere, any time. The only open pvp areas are fairly high-level. Nooblets would have a hard time even finding their way into them without help.
2) The pvp is mostly large scale stuff and it doesn't take long to build up enough skill to make yourself at least useful in those battles.
3) The only gear worth wearing is made by players. Wipe the playerbase and you take out all the gear for a while too.
4) With it's skill system, higher "level" players can essentially drop back to a nooblet's level by using lower level skills. The kind of level disparity you see in other mmos doesn't have the same meaning in Ryzom.
Has any mmo ever wiped their playerbase? Some argue potential players may feel threatened (sic) by existing higher level players - but how many more would feel threatened by developers willing to wipe existing players' characters to attract new players?
The only thing a player wipe would achieve is that special kind of notoriety that SOE enjoys in the mmo community.
Personally I wouldn't mind a wipe at all but I don't see it being a wise move.
From what I saw the newbie area has always been pretty well populated.
So the problem is retaining new players. Ryzom needs adjustment to make that start happening.
If a wipe is done it would be hard to get good data on whether changes are growing the plyerbase or not. For example higher level players wouldn't be leaving Ryzom at a normal rate for a long time as it would take a long time for players to get their levels back.
And then a focus on identifying why players are leaving and at what levels would definitely help I would think.
Presuming of course that the new owners want to make a bundle rather than just running the game as is, keeping costs low, and make a little money.
The "let's restart together on the same basis"-feeling would be over after two or three months. It would be only temporary. The wipe of the database is permanent.
If a wipe is such a fine and good method to gain new motivated players, why don't the MMOs wipe their databases every two years? Right: becaus its damn frustrating, it's a loss of faith and the potential to lose old players is bigger than to catch new player's attention. I wouldn't join a MMO that is owned by a company that kicks their long-time-players in their butts this way.
You don't attract players through a wipe. You attract them by advertising.
You don't keep players through a wipe. You keep them with content.
As long as there is no technical reason, a wipe would be more harmful than useful for the game.
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Playing: Ryzom, Vanguard, Everquest 2
Cancelled: RF online, WoW, Sword of the New World, Rappelz
Looking forward to: Spellborn
To the best of my (limited) knowledge, the only online games that do this are a small number of Discworld derivative MUDs.
They have a hard level cap. Players reach it. The admin regularly wipe everyone. And their players come back to play the same content over and over and over.
But the number of players who find this system fun is very, very small. Probably because that kind of behaviour is practically clinically diagnostic.
People get attached to their characters, and the work they put into developing them.
It's hard to imagine a technical reason for a wipe at this point. The player database has survived other ownership changes, and we can already see that account information has clearly survived this transition (eg. forums).
I would find any technical reason for a wipe very suspicious.
I've read through this whole thread. I cannot find anyone in particular that I would like to quote and respond to, so I'll just say what I have to say.
I'm against a wipe. If a wipe were absolutely necessary, I would deal with it and try to replay (quitting soon afterwords).
I worked very hard to get into the veteran category. I'm not "elder of Atys," but I came in soon afterwords.
I have a few 250 skills (and many more lower skills). But, I know it took me 2 1/2-3 years to get just a few 250s, and with loads of help. Those skills were gotten while I was in high school, with no social life and no job, and they still took me that long to get.
If there was a wipe, I would never be able to consider myself "leet" again. Knowledgeable, yes. But I would never be able to back up my knowledge, because I don't have the RL time to get multiple 250s in a few months. I couldn't do it the first time in a few months.
But, gaining my levels back would be the worst of my problems if I had to deal with a wipe. My main character (Keiko) is like a piece of my soul. If she was to be destroyed, I would feel as if I had lost a piece of myself. (kind of like a really really really bad break up with someone you really really really love)
Keiko and I have been through so much together. There is no way I can just recreate that by starting a new character. I've tried it with new avatars on Ryzom (I made a new avatar on the Cho server, and...meh), and I've even tried to build a character on new games, which results in an epic fail on my part (yes, i wanted to use epic fail in a sentance).
So, in conclusion, I'm against a wipe. I'll try to play if there is a wipe, but like with every other game, I doubt I'll be able to stay long due to a lack of my soul.
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In response to the wipe gathering new players. I dont see it being very beneficial to anyone. Like many have mentioned, older players will just power level (IF they have the RL time) with their knowledge of the game, guilds will be rebuilt, along with alliances (see Kami/Kara Alliance) especially if outposts are still in play, and all will fall back into the same way of life...just without the "veterans" character back stories.
There needs to be content, advertisement, and a rework of the missions/quests (to begin with) to attract and keep new players, not a wipe. Mostly the advertisement and mission/quest rework for new players. Content for older players, and later new players (who will in turn become old players..with more content).
Of course, if the content isn't added (after the missions and ads), then the player base will falter, and Ryzom will be auctioned off again!
Yay for vicious circles!
~Lheage~
Some of the posts in this thread have mentioned differences between Ryzom and other games. Continuing in that vein, I'd point out that characters in Ryzom are not nearly so disposable as those in many other games.
Ryzom is generally not a game where you create a new character every time you feel like trying something new. You just start learning the new skills with your main character. Now, most people do have alts, but for the most part they spend the large majority of their time on one main. Over time that character becomes an ingrained part of you.
I am Sasi. Sasi is so much a part of me that the name stays with me wherever I go. Every game I play, my main character is as close to looking and acting like my Ryzom Sasi as I can manage. Every forum I register to join, my forum name is some variation of Sasi. Sick, isn't it?
Keiko mentions the pain of a wipe. We already know what that pain feels like. We felt it when the servers went down. We carried it with us, thinking the hole in our hearts was forever. Then the news came, Ryzom is returning. Wiping our characters now would be to rip out the scar tissue that has begun to form and make us bleed again.
Would I still play? Yep. I'd pull up my hundreds of screenshots of Sasi and recreate her appearance. I'd spend hours obsessing over getting every detail just right. I'd start her from scratch and I'd re-do everything. But the thing is, I'd be repeating myself. I've already done those things. I wouldn't trust the new owners, seeing that they had already, from the very beginning, hurt me. I'd be less likely to recruit new players to the game.
Now, given that our login data is still there, I'd be willing to bet that this is all just idle speculation. So I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'm just losing sleep waiting for the servers to come online.
P.S. I REALLY hate that this post editor doesn't work right in Firefox, or at all in Opera.
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Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
I wouldn't even call it speculation - it's something.... more bizarre. Look at the original post - no mmo has ever deliberately wiped their playerbase before - so what possible reason would the OP have had for raising the question in this manner?
He was "99% sure" it would be a wipe. He was asked why and didn't answer.
It doesn't make any sense at all.
And look at the numbers - 60 people have voted in this silly poll and 70% for a wipe...
The danger is, as someone else has already pointed out in this thread, game developers are sometimes influenced by forum crazy talk or "player feedback". SWG's NGE was supposedly the result of "player feedback" and I've seen other examples like it, though none quite so spectacular.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either, but it's good that people are voicing their thoughts now, before Ryzom whooshes round the S-bend.
On a similar thread on the official Ryzom forums, 9 have voted for a wipe, and like 76 have voted against. The voters being avid Ryzom players. Long time customers, and so on...
FYI...
~Lheage~
Hehehe - fancy that.
I have to admit I was suspicious of the numbers here. Not only are the official forums populated by avid Ryzom players, they're also still not allowing new registrations?
So, eg. if someone were inclined to give a false impression about the popularity of a particular idea by, say, stacking a poll, it wouldn't be possible on the official forums?
*removed because there's no use explaining color to the blind*
~Lheage~