Originally posted by green13 Hehehe - fancy that. I have to admit I was suspicious of the numbers here. Not only are the official forums populated by avid Ryzom players, they're also still not allowing new registrations? So, eg. if someone were inclined to give a false impression about the popularity of a particular idea by, say, stacking a poll, it wouldn't be possible on the official forums?
Accounts on the official forums are limited to active game accounts. (Or in this case, accounts that were active at the time everything ground to a halt.) Also, an account can only vote once in a poll. So, the only way to stack the poll would be to have presciently purchased many game accounts prior to the shutdown...
I think it's safe to say that the existing playerbase is overwhelmingly opposed to an action which the new owners in all likelyhood never even considered anyway.
In other news, mmorpg.com is full of sh... as usual.
I have to admit I was suspicious of the numbers here. Not only are the official forums populated by avid Ryzom players, they're also still not allowing new registrations?
So, eg. if someone were inclined to give a false impression about the popularity of a particular idea by, say, stacking a poll, it wouldn't be possible on the official forums?
Accounts on the official forums are limited to active game accounts. (Or in this case, accounts that were active at the time everything ground to a halt.) Also, an account can only vote once in a poll. So, the only way to stack the poll would be to have presciently purchased many game accounts prior to the shutdown...
I think it's safe to say that the existing playerbase is overwhelmingly opposed to an action which the new owners in all likelyhood never even considered anyway.
In other news, mmorpg.com is full of sh... as usual.
OR, yet in another view...
... mmorpg.com is full of "lurkers", people who are interested in playing Ryzom for the first time, but are a bit scared with the prospect of being able to play only amongst really high level vets.
Don't take me for bad, I actually had a toon myself (though not very high level), and I would definitely not mind playing with all the "big guys", especially so because i remember the shocking friendliness of the Ryzom community. When I entered the mainland from Silan, I still remember being bombarded with friendly tells, total strangers dumping high level equipment, XP boosters etc on me - just because they felt like so, for nothing in exchange.
Thus, speaking for myself, would not like to have a wipe at all, for the sole reason that it could alienate several vets, and that would be a shame. Still, i can understand the motivation of those people who never know Ryzom, and would like a fresh, equal start.
Not saying I agree them, not at all
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
OR, yet in another view... ... mmorpg.com is full of "lurkers", people who are interested in playing Ryzom for the first time, but are a bit scared with the prospect of being able to play only amongst really high level vets. Don't take me for bad, I actually had a toon myself (though not very high level), and I would definitely not mind playing with all the "big guys", especially so because i remember the shocking friendliness of the Ryzom community. When I entered the mainland from Silan, I still remember being bombarded with friendly tells, total strangers dumping high level equipment, XP boosters etc on me - just because they felt like so, for nothing in exchange. Thus, speaking for myself, would not like to have a wipe at all, for the sole reason that it could alienate several vets, and that would be a shame. Still, i can understand the motivation of those people who never know Ryzom, and would like a fresh, equal start. Not saying I agree them, not at all DB
I've posted elsewhere, but will briefly reiterate here:
For me the experience of joining Ryzom was thoroughly enriched by the presence of knowledgable people to help and guide me, to bring me into an existing family and social network, to teach me the things I needed to know. I'd have been lost without them.
I'm guessing here, but I think that the desire to "start fresh" is based on an assumption of being in competition with the other players on the server. Quite on the contrary, the players are far more in cooperation than competition. The competitiveness is largely based on guilds and factions, not individuals, and even then it's generally quite friendly competition.
Some time in the past the owners started a new server, with that very idea of a fresh start. Some enjoyed it, but for the most part it stayed largely empty, just a place to go with an alt to get away for a while. In the end it was merged back in with the remaining international (English speaking) server. So - it's been tried, and by some measures failed. I did feel sympathy for those who really enjoyed the new server, though. There just weren't enough of them.
On the subject of playing with "high level vets":
There are no levels in Ryzom. Only skills. People decide which skill they wish to use today and team up with others who are using skills at a similar degree of advancement. Any character should have a skill or two or twelve in a range similar to the one you are using. So it's just not an issue. If I want to team up with you, I will find one of my skills at a compatible range, and we will team up. My greater knowledge can only help you, not hurt you. Someone else with greater knowledge than mine can help me.
If one's desire is to be "uber" and laugh at da nubs, it's probably the wrong game.
First things first: really cheers me up to see all your oldies names
Can see in those words and those names that even if servers do not come back up Ryzom is still alive: in our hearts...
Against a wipe myself to come back to the subject: we have made Ryzom, Ryzom has made us...
Wiping history will make no sense; will delay newcomers with over population and so on...
Somehow the wipe idea has already been tried: with CHO, lot of seasoned players tried it: new server, new beginning... novelty wore out very fast and most players came back to their main chara...
We can still have a new start when they bring out episode 2 of the saga: transport us all on a new planet to face new challenges.. Maybe a new planet lvl 250-500 where all players with 250 skills would just be newbs...
Anyway; my credit card is already waiting next to the PC, bring it back now
OR, yet in another view... ... mmorpg.com is full of "lurkers", people who are interested in playing Ryzom for the first time, but are a bit scared with the prospect of being able to play only amongst really high level vets.
I can normally put myself in someone else's shoes and at least appreciate their point of view... but I can't wrap my mind around this one. I mean if this were the case then almost no new players would join any game more than a small time after its release. And we all know that's not true.
Originally posted by Sasi
For me the experience of joining Ryzom was thoroughly enriched by the presence of knowledgable people to help and guide me, to bring me into an existing family and social network, to teach me the things I needed to know. I'd have been lost without them.
That was also my experience. And while I don't think that network would disappear with a wipe, I do think a wipe would diminish that resource.
Accounts on the official forums are limited to active game accounts. (Or in this case, accounts that were active at the time everything ground to a halt.) Also, an account can only vote once in a poll. So, the only way to stack the poll would be to have presciently purchased many game accounts prior to the shutdown... I think it's safe to say that the existing playerbase is overwhelmingly opposed to an action which the new owners in all likelyhood never even considered anyway. In other news, mmorpg.com is full of sh... as usual.
Maybe my comment was a little too oblique - it wasn't the official forum's poll results that I was suggesting might not be entirely trustworthy.
Originally posted by green13 Maybe my comment was a little too oblique - it wasn't the official forum's poll results that I was suggesting might not be entirely trustworthy.
Sorry, I was agreeing with you, in my own special excessively verbose way.
I know this about server wipes... From my experience of survivng a few... If you are to throw away everything that the paying customer has "worked" (played) so very hard for. For so very long, in this case 3 years seems to be the general number... Then you should REFUND every last PENNY that they paid to YOU to play YOUR GAME, to play THIER character. This is a very hostile topic, and one that is like opening pandora's box... It is so delicate that just the mere mention of destroying peoples lives like this... I can say one thing, and this post comes quite late I know... Heck, for all I know the wipe has done happened already... But what I can say is, and take this with high caution...
People have been known to get so attached to their Avatars, wether it be playing a table top board game, the old pen and paper D&D or an online game... That when something as catastrophic as a complete annihilation of their character comes into reality... People have been known to commit suicide! This is a hard FACT to face, but someone has got to bring up this point. Some people who play too hard or get drawn in too much start to lose the ability to tell reality from fiction... And when their char dies, in a permanent way... With no hope to respawn from something like this... Some have been known to end thier own life, believing themselves to have died. As they WERE/ARE those characters, and were them for years on end.
I am trying to say, if you do such a thing as this... Know the consequences. Do you really want to kill your paying loyal customers? Because some of them wont be able to handle it. The human psyche is a very fragile thing. I myself have been playing games of all kinds for the last 16+ years now. I'm 26 and can rightfully distinguish between all mediums. Learning psychology has helped, as I know greater how the mind works. It would only be fair if you are to do something as harsh as this... To at the VERY LEAST refund everything that you have been paid for their time and life. You can never repay the time they 'lost' playing your game, but you can refund their money. And to those that do this to a free to play game... What is there to offer someone for all their 'hard work"? Heck, pay them something too! Even if you made no money off them from your cash shop... Or however you make profit from a free game... Those were loyal people, every last avatar played by a real life human being. (At least the ones that talked, not the bots lol.)
Seriously tho, my point stands. Ideas to a the companies:
1:Email every member you have and ask them their thoughts on it. Do NOT discard the email replies. Read every last one of them to see if the majority is willing to 'allow' such a thing. Without the customer, paying or otherwise... Your game is nothing but 0's and 1's that will sit there and do nothing. Ignoring the individual is a big no-no.
2: If it comes down to the majority saying yes, well you know the ones that said NO. You have their personal email, and of course contact information. Pay THOSE people then, the ones that said no. The ones that agreed to your diabolical evil plot, well... Pay them nothing. They are the ones that were with you, and they do not have to be told you refunded those that said no. (Unless they read my post.)
3: You could theoretically go with the: "The servers had a melt-down crash thingy, and they wiped themselves... We did nothing!"
Even if that was the case, I personally am a Perfectionist Freak. I take precautions against anything that could go wrong. I first write down on paper, or type up in a notepad... Every single item my char has, when I get a new item, it gets added to the list. I then take a individual screen shot of everything that "I AM" as proof of what I had acquired and acheived. I then take it a step further and take a video of it. (Got to love FRAPS or XFIRE for the video recording.) So if something went wrong and everything I had was lost... The company can do the following. Here goes:
Give the wiped chars, the ones that took YEARS to make... Give them every single thing they had back to them as nothing ever happend. Yep, give them back their "Level" or "Skills". Give them back every weapon and potion... Everything that they EARNED, you return to them. Obviously this only works if the individual has proof. Which everyone should do what I do. I may be the only man in existance that goes to such great lengths. But I care very passionately about my creations. So if something ever went kaboom, I will demand it all be returned to me. All shiny and new, not a burnt scratch on it from the Armageddon incident.
In conclusion... always consider those that will be affected by your actions. Even if suicide wasn't the outcome... You could also think of the possibility that they would act in the opposite way. Revenge, Vengeance upon those that did this to them. This is how terrorists are born. When you mess with someone's life, real world or virtual... You create havoc and chaos where there was none. I may be a bit over exaggerating things... But I do want to always point out all the facets of what could happen if it all came to an end for someone. Agree, or disagree... At least you have now learned something. Also, I did NOT read all 9 or whatever pages here. I actually was redirected here to page 5 to read dentom's post. To which I agreed with him completely. But I felt, if it had not been said as of yet... This harsh topic of reality must be covered in full. I hope you all feel enlightened now. Good day to you, good game to all!
Comments
Accounts on the official forums are limited to active game accounts. (Or in this case, accounts that were active at the time everything ground to a halt.) Also, an account can only vote once in a poll. So, the only way to stack the poll would be to have presciently purchased many game accounts prior to the shutdown...
I think it's safe to say that the existing playerbase is overwhelmingly opposed to an action which the new owners in all likelyhood never even considered anyway.
In other news, mmorpg.com is full of sh... as usual.
===============================
Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
Accounts on the official forums are limited to active game accounts. (Or in this case, accounts that were active at the time everything ground to a halt.) Also, an account can only vote once in a poll. So, the only way to stack the poll would be to have presciently purchased many game accounts prior to the shutdown...
I think it's safe to say that the existing playerbase is overwhelmingly opposed to an action which the new owners in all likelyhood never even considered anyway.
In other news, mmorpg.com is full of sh... as usual.
OR, yet in another view...
... mmorpg.com is full of "lurkers", people who are interested in playing Ryzom for the first time, but are a bit scared with the prospect of being able to play only amongst really high level vets.
Don't take me for bad, I actually had a toon myself (though not very high level), and I would definitely not mind playing with all the "big guys", especially so because i remember the shocking friendliness of the Ryzom community. When I entered the mainland from Silan, I still remember being bombarded with friendly tells, total strangers dumping high level equipment, XP boosters etc on me - just because they felt like so, for nothing in exchange.
Thus, speaking for myself, would not like to have a wipe at all, for the sole reason that it could alienate several vets, and that would be a shame. Still, i can understand the motivation of those people who never know Ryzom, and would like a fresh, equal start.
Not saying I agree them, not at all
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I've posted elsewhere, but will briefly reiterate here:
For me the experience of joining Ryzom was thoroughly enriched by the presence of knowledgable people to help and guide me, to bring me into an existing family and social network, to teach me the things I needed to know. I'd have been lost without them.
I'm guessing here, but I think that the desire to "start fresh" is based on an assumption of being in competition with the other players on the server. Quite on the contrary, the players are far more in cooperation than competition. The competitiveness is largely based on guilds and factions, not individuals, and even then it's generally quite friendly competition.
Some time in the past the owners started a new server, with that very idea of a fresh start. Some enjoyed it, but for the most part it stayed largely empty, just a place to go with an alt to get away for a while. In the end it was merged back in with the remaining international (English speaking) server. So - it's been tried, and by some measures failed. I did feel sympathy for those who really enjoyed the new server, though. There just weren't enough of them.
On the subject of playing with "high level vets":
There are no levels in Ryzom. Only skills. People decide which skill they wish to use today and team up with others who are using skills at a similar degree of advancement. Any character should have a skill or two or twelve in a range similar to the one you are using. So it's just not an issue. If I want to team up with you, I will find one of my skills at a compatible range, and we will team up. My greater knowledge can only help you, not hurt you. Someone else with greater knowledge than mine can help me.
If one's desire is to be "uber" and laugh at da nubs, it's probably the wrong game.
===============================
Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
You just HAD to post didn't you?
A tiny mind is a tidy mind...
First things first: really cheers me up to see all your oldies names
Can see in those words and those names that even if servers do not come back up Ryzom is still alive: in our hearts...
Against a wipe myself to come back to the subject: we have made Ryzom, Ryzom has made us...
Wiping history will make no sense; will delay newcomers with over population and so on...
Somehow the wipe idea has already been tried: with CHO, lot of seasoned players tried it: new server, new beginning... novelty wore out very fast and most players came back to their main chara...
We can still have a new start when they bring out episode 2 of the saga: transport us all on a new planet to face new challenges.. Maybe a new planet lvl 250-500 where all players with 250 skills would just be newbs...
Anyway; my credit card is already waiting next to the PC, bring it back now
I can normally put myself in someone else's shoes and at least appreciate their point of view... but I can't wrap my mind around this one. I mean if this were the case then almost no new players would join any game more than a small time after its release. And we all know that's not true.
That was also my experience. And while I don't think that network would disappear with a wipe, I do think a wipe would diminish that resource.
Maybe my comment was a little too oblique - it wasn't the official forum's poll results that I was suggesting might not be entirely trustworthy.
===============================
Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
Oh don't apologise for excess verbosity...
... or people will expect ME to start apologising too!
I know this about server wipes... From my experience of survivng a few... If you are to throw away everything that the paying customer has "worked" (played) so very hard for. For so very long, in this case 3 years seems to be the general number... Then you should REFUND every last PENNY that they paid to YOU to play YOUR GAME, to play THIER character. This is a very hostile topic, and one that is like opening pandora's box... It is so delicate that just the mere mention of destroying peoples lives like this... I can say one thing, and this post comes quite late I know... Heck, for all I know the wipe has done happened already... But what I can say is, and take this with high caution...
People have been known to get so attached to their Avatars, wether it be playing a table top board game, the old pen and paper D&D or an online game... That when something as catastrophic as a complete annihilation of their character comes into reality... People have been known to commit suicide! This is a hard FACT to face, but someone has got to bring up this point. Some people who play too hard or get drawn in too much start to lose the ability to tell reality from fiction... And when their char dies, in a permanent way... With no hope to respawn from something like this... Some have been known to end thier own life, believing themselves to have died. As they WERE/ARE those characters, and were them for years on end.
I am trying to say, if you do such a thing as this... Know the consequences. Do you really want to kill your paying loyal customers? Because some of them wont be able to handle it. The human psyche is a very fragile thing. I myself have been playing games of all kinds for the last 16+ years now. I'm 26 and can rightfully distinguish between all mediums. Learning psychology has helped, as I know greater how the mind works. It would only be fair if you are to do something as harsh as this... To at the VERY LEAST refund everything that you have been paid for their time and life. You can never repay the time they 'lost' playing your game, but you can refund their money. And to those that do this to a free to play game... What is there to offer someone for all their 'hard work"? Heck, pay them something too! Even if you made no money off them from your cash shop... Or however you make profit from a free game... Those were loyal people, every last avatar played by a real life human being. (At least the ones that talked, not the bots lol.)
Seriously tho, my point stands. Ideas to a the companies:
1:Email every member you have and ask them their thoughts on it. Do NOT discard the email replies. Read every last one of them to see if the majority is willing to 'allow' such a thing. Without the customer, paying or otherwise... Your game is nothing but 0's and 1's that will sit there and do nothing. Ignoring the individual is a big no-no.
2: If it comes down to the majority saying yes, well you know the ones that said NO. You have their personal email, and of course contact information. Pay THOSE people then, the ones that said no. The ones that agreed to your diabolical evil plot, well... Pay them nothing. They are the ones that were with you, and they do not have to be told you refunded those that said no. (Unless they read my post.)
3: You could theoretically go with the: "The servers had a melt-down crash thingy, and they wiped themselves... We did nothing!"
Even if that was the case, I personally am a Perfectionist Freak. I take precautions against anything that could go wrong. I first write down on paper, or type up in a notepad... Every single item my char has, when I get a new item, it gets added to the list. I then take a individual screen shot of everything that "I AM" as proof of what I had acquired and acheived. I then take it a step further and take a video of it. (Got to love FRAPS or XFIRE for the video recording.) So if something went wrong and everything I had was lost... The company can do the following. Here goes:
Give the wiped chars, the ones that took YEARS to make... Give them every single thing they had back to them as nothing ever happend. Yep, give them back their "Level" or "Skills". Give them back every weapon and potion... Everything that they EARNED, you return to them. Obviously this only works if the individual has proof. Which everyone should do what I do. I may be the only man in existance that goes to such great lengths. But I care very passionately about my creations. So if something ever went kaboom, I will demand it all be returned to me. All shiny and new, not a burnt scratch on it from the Armageddon incident.
In conclusion... always consider those that will be affected by your actions. Even if suicide wasn't the outcome... You could also think of the possibility that they would act in the opposite way. Revenge, Vengeance upon those that did this to them. This is how terrorists are born. When you mess with someone's life, real world or virtual... You create havoc and chaos where there was none. I may be a bit over exaggerating things... But I do want to always point out all the facets of what could happen if it all came to an end for someone. Agree, or disagree... At least you have now learned something. Also, I did NOT read all 9 or whatever pages here. I actually was redirected here to page 5 to read dentom's post. To which I agreed with him completely. But I felt, if it had not been said as of yet... This harsh topic of reality must be covered in full. I hope you all feel enlightened now. Good day to you, good game to all!
END
FOX
wipes always cause mass suicide
Finally, Ryzom for registered members at time of shutdown, all subbed accounts now active and can play, all servers back online for them.
Those that were on the island for free play, or want to start new account will have to wait till that portion comes back online, NEXT week.
As for server wipes, ha ha fantastic no server wipe, all data preserved and in good terms.
People went back online and found their avatars in same spot holding same weapons artifacts, and mounts.
Nothing was lost, all was preserved.
Anyone interested my accounts were not subbed, so will see most everyone online next week when those servers come back online.