14.95 a month is nothing. A decent game costs 50 bucks, you play it for a month, and then you're done. 14.95 is cheap for an MMO you can play as much as you want. Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is working on a virtual table top so you can play the game with other people online. It's not out yet, but should release soon. You might like that better than any MMO, if you find some cool people to play the game with.
I agree
I'm lucky if I spend more than 2 weeks with some of the crappy single player RPGs created from the past year
regarding DND4E - wont see that Virtual table top until late fall or next spring
and they hope to you charge you 14.95/month like mmos
14.95 a month is nothing. A decent game costs 50 bucks, you play it for a month, and then you're done. 14.95 is cheap for an MMO you can play as much as you want. Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is working on a virtual table top so you can play the game with other people online. It's not out yet, but should release soon. You might like that better than any MMO, if you find some cool people to play the game with.
I agree
I'm lucky if I spend more than 2 weeks with some of the crappy single player RPGs created from the past year
regarding DND4E - wont see that Virtual table top until late fall or next spring
and they hope to you charge you 14.95/month like mmos
I didn't know the virtual table top release was so far off.
But I would pay 14.95 if it turns out to be good, and I can find some really cool dungeon masters.
The fun thing about Dungeons and Dragons is playing your character, and reacting to the other players, and all the characters the Dungeon Master creates. It really doesn't matter whether you're playing a level 5 character, or a level 15 character (keep in mind DnD typically went to level 20 max).
You might fight tougher monsters, but the fun part was the roleplay and story telling, so leveling wasn't all that important. leveling, or gaining skills, has become everything in MMORPGs now.
I've tried EQ2 several times and it never sticks with me. I don't think that Warhammer will offer anything new or innovative, I hope that I'm wrong.
I read the link to the info about the virtual table top and I think those guys are off their rockers. $14.95 a month plus added expenses to purchase online virtual miniatures and tilesets.
This kind of crap is getting out of hand.
Do they really think that they can get a way with charging a monthly fee AND microtransactions?
You can make modules to play online with people in NWN2 and none of that costs more than the boxes for the original game and the expansions. You don't have to pay extra for tilesets, mobs, character tokens, ect. Everything is represented in 3D.
They're charging a monthly fee for 2D tokens for christs sake.
I read the link to the info about the virtual table top and I think those guys are off their rockers. $14.95 a month plus added expenses to purchase online virtual miniatures and tilesets.
I personally think they will never get 14.95 and will need to lower the price
Then I'm really old at 62,,,geeezzzzz....I think it's the quality of the MMO'S out there that makes them boring and not our age except for the youngsters that are easily entertianed..Most of my posts are asking people about MMO's listed here..
For me I''m hunting for the next Asheron's Call..I fell in love with that game...since then I've been constantly hunting..
I'm really considering browser RPG's just for something new>
I'm in the same situation now. I jump from game to game looking for that something that they just don't seem to have.
I used to do tabletop RP/wargames with friends from when i was about 12 years old, but over time we drifted apart and gaming became less frequent until stopping completely. That's when i got into my first MMO, Ultima Online. I was in a great guild (i.e. mature) and it was the best time i've had in any mmo, but as with all things eventually it came to an end. EA changed the game and graphics. Now i hardly know anyone still playing UO.
I have been searching for a similar experience since then and i just recently came to the conclusion that i'm not going to find it, for two reasons.
1) Kids. Remember when you were called a geek or computer need for playing an MMO? (might only apply to the really old farts here .) Yet these days all the kids are online, and to me this is why MMO's are as bad as they are. In general (note i'm not saying all kids) players now want things easy and want the rewards now. Look at being a tamer in UO. Some players spent years maxing their taming skills. Now you create a new character and put a few pieces of jewelry on and you're done . Sandbox games are a rarity because players now want to be led through steps from one quest to another, and the majority of general chat is filled with morons begging for money or just slagging each other off (WoW Barrens chat ring a bell to anyone?)
2) RPG. Companies are creating games which cater less and less to those who like to roleplay, and even when they have RP servers the rules are rarely enforced and the servers fill with the "l33t" crowd with their stupid "IpWnU" names who have no idea what RP is other than players talk weird to each other and sometimes use that strange language called english (on english servers obviously). At least in RP's you play at home you can kick out anyone who was an idiot.
Lately i've been playing F.E.A.R. and Diablo2 because i'm sick of trawling through MMO's looking for one with a more mature player base (EVE does fit the bill best, but i prefer playing a character rather than a ship), and the only MMO that has the slightest bit of interest for me now is Darkfall because it seems like it may have the diversity that UO used to have, but i'm trying not to get my hopes up too much.
I used to love MMORPGs. I spent alot of time playing table top games before MMOs came out. D&D, Blood Bowl, Warhammer, and d20 Star Wars to name a few favorites. Now I can't get into any games. I resent the fact that MMOs charge monthly fees. Free to play microtransaction games are, as a rule, always boring grindfests with tons of immature players. I don't know what happened. I played a few MMORPGs, but I didn't start playing on a daily basis until SWG came out. After the NGE I went back to FFXI, but realized that I don't want to devote that much time to playing a game. FFXI is not at all casual friendly. I played WoW beta for a year or so and loved it. I got frustrated when release hit and I had to start over from scratch and then I just got burned out about 6 months after release. Since then I've bounced around from game to game trying to find one that's worth a subscription, but none of the current games do. The only game I've even thought about playing again with any zeal is Phanatsy Star Universe. The problem with that is I only want to play the 360 version. I traded my copy in and can't find the game in any stores, not to mention I'd have to fill up precious hard drive space on my 360 with the expansion. I hate EVE with a passion. It's boring, the combat sucks, mining is like watching grass grow, and the only saving grace of the game is the socializing with people in the EVE radio channel. AoC sucked, AO is lame now, CoX is way too repetitive, DDO sucks, and I could go on and on about every game that's out that's half-way worth the effort to try them out. Will we ever get a good solid title that is worth a monthly fee?
No your not, you seems very young to me and you hate about all kinds of different mmorpgs you dont want it to be to difficult.
What you exspected after a longtime playing a beta, it was btw not a year it was about 8 months.
You hate immature player base but you play console and those are for kids:P
PSU is also grindfest.
Maybe only table top games is your cup of tea:)
Darkfall is game to wait for but its very hardcore so prolly also not for you, you seems to have even a bigger problem then me it seems:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
MMOs are different now than they were a few years ago.......Todays MMO is designed toward the casual gamer that doesnt have alot of time yet wants quick satisfaction (ie instant gratification)........Most of the games that have come out since WoW have used this principle and it isnt going to change anytime soon.....Everyone is trying to copy WoWs success and get their piece of the pie.......Even games like EQ1 and EQ2 which were out before WoW changed their philosophy and made their games more casual friendly.......MMOs have nothing to do with how old anyone is but just what is currently hot....It is basically no different than the movies or music that is out there today......
Yes but music in 60's and 70's was superior to music in 80's 90's and 2000's, so i hope it wont go same way as music did
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
great compilation of info about the game, as well as screenshots and concept art. Beta is actually set to start this year from what I've read, and the community in the forum so far is great.
I know how the OP feels. we have all been there. BTW I'm in my late 30's , MMO's have no age restrictions whatsoever. In fact its kinda odd to me that so many young people play these games for hours upon hours. I have a stressful job and a mortgage, MMO's are a way to escape and relax at my age but when I was young there was no way I was sitting in front of a computer for hours...I was out partying and doing things with friends non-stop. /shrug IDK, MMOs seem to be more suited to older folk than younger ones, but thats just my observation and opinion.
As far as the game situation, I have been there too, just wait as there are alot of new games coming to market over the next few years. I am watching WAR and Earthrise myself. Till then I raid with my guild in WOW and we are quickkly approaching endgame in Black Temple. For me, WOW is the game as it has too many of the things I want in an MMO that others simply dont have.
In the end, just decide whats important to you in an MMO, then try and find something that has at least 80% of what your looking for. There is never going to be a 100% game out there for anyone. Good luck!
I used to love MMORPGs. I spent alot of time playing table top games before MMOs came out. D&D, Blood Bowl, Warhammer, and d20 Star Wars to name a few favorites. Now I can't get into any games. I resent the fact that MMOs charge monthly fees. Free to play microtransaction games are, as a rule, always boring grindfests with tons of immature players. I don't know what happened. I played a few MMORPGs, but I didn't start playing on a daily basis until SWG came out. After the NGE I went back to FFXI, but realized that I don't want to devote that much time to playing a game. FFXI is not at all casual friendly. I played WoW beta for a year or so and loved it. I got frustrated when release hit and I had to start over from scratch and then I just got burned out about 6 months after release. Since then I've bounced around from game to game trying to find one that's worth a subscription, but none of the current games do. The only game I've even thought about playing again with any zeal is Phanatsy Star Universe. The problem with that is I only want to play the 360 version. I traded my copy in and can't find the game in any stores, not to mention I'd have to fill up precious hard drive space on my 360 with the expansion. I hate EVE with a passion. It's boring, the combat sucks, mining is like watching grass grow, and the only saving grace of the game is the socializing with people in the EVE radio channel. AoC sucked, AO is lame now, CoX is way too repetitive, DDO sucks, and I could go on and on about every game that's out that's half-way worth the effort to try them out. Will we ever get a good solid title that is worth a monthly fee?
No your not, you seems very young to me and you hate about all kinds of different mmorpgs you dont want it to be to difficult.
What you exspected after a longtime playing a beta, it was btw not a year it was about 8 months.
You hate immature player base but you play console and those are for kids:P
PSU is also grindfest.
Maybe only table top games is your cup of tea:)
Darkfall is game to wait for but its very hardcore so prolly also not for you, you seems to have even a bigger problem then me it seems:)
Holy +1 sword of generalizations and assumptions, Batman.
First off, I'm 30 years old.
I don't mind difficult games, but I absolutely can't stand when itemization takes precedence over player skill.
I have a ton of age 23+ gamers on my Xbox Live Friend's list and I've also gamed with some pretty mature players on PSN. You shouldn't speak so matter of factly about something you seemed to have little to no experience with.
PSU is grindfest, but it's also a good action RPG that is actually quite fun.
I still like table top gaming, but that doesn't change the fact that the MMORPG genre is seriously lacking.
And I don't have a clue why so many people are saying that Darkfall will be so great. The screenshots look horrid, it's been in development for way too long, and if it ever gets release I'll judge then what kind of game it is. Too many people have started hyping games that they've never played and then when the games are finally released, they get all bent out of shape and cry about how disapointed they are in the game.
I used to love MMORPGs. I spent alot of time playing table top games before MMOs came out. D&D, Blood Bowl, Warhammer, and d20 Star Wars to name a few favorites. Now I can't get into any games. I resent the fact that MMOs charge monthly fees. Free to play microtransaction games are, as a rule, always boring grindfests with tons of immature players. I don't know what happened. I played a few MMORPGs, but I didn't start playing on a daily basis until SWG came out. After the NGE I went back to FFXI, but realized that I don't want to devote that much time to playing a game. FFXI is not at all casual friendly. I played WoW beta for a year or so and loved it. I got frustrated when release hit and I had to start over from scratch and then I just got burned out about 6 months after release. Since then I've bounced around from game to game trying to find one that's worth a subscription, but none of the current games do. The only game I've even thought about playing again with any zeal is Phanatsy Star Universe. The problem with that is I only want to play the 360 version. I traded my copy in and can't find the game in any stores, not to mention I'd have to fill up precious hard drive space on my 360 with the expansion. I hate EVE with a passion. It's boring, the combat sucks, mining is like watching grass grow, and the only saving grace of the game is the socializing with people in the EVE radio channel. AoC sucked, AO is lame now, CoX is way too repetitive, DDO sucks, and I could go on and on about every game that's out that's half-way worth the effort to try them out. Will we ever get a good solid title that is worth a monthly fee?
No your not, you seems very young to me and you hate about all kinds of different mmorpgs you dont want it to be to difficult.
What you exspected after a longtime playing a beta, it was btw not a year it was about 8 months.
You hate immature player base but you play console and those are for kids:P
PSU is also grindfest.
Maybe only table top games is your cup of tea:)
Darkfall is game to wait for but its very hardcore so prolly also not for you, you seems to have even a bigger problem then me it seems:)
Holy +1 sword of generalizations and assumptions, Batman.
First off, I'm 30 years old.
I don't mind difficult games, but I absolutely can't stand when itemization takes precedence over player skill.
I have a ton of age 23+ gamers on my Xbox Live Friend's list and I've also gamed with some pretty mature players on PSN. You shouldn't speak so matter of factly about something you seemed to have little to no experience with.
PSU is grindfest, but it's also a good action RPG that is actually quite fun.
I still like table top gaming, but that doesn't change the fact that the MMORPG genre is seriously lacking.
And I don't have a clue why so many people are saying that Darkfall will be so great. The screenshots look horrid, it's been in development for way too long, and if it ever gets release I'll judge then what kind of game it is. Too many people have started hyping games that they've never played and then when the games are finally released, they get all bent out of shape and cry about how disapointed they are in the game.
You like wow and you say screenshots Darkfall look horrid?
You mean you dont like style of Darkfall right?
Screenshots 2008 Darkfall are as good or even better then lets say AoC, so what are you talking about screens from before 2006?
And common be honest and bit wiser its been mostly HYPED by trolls who shout vaporware or hate games like Darkfall.
Darkfall is not hyped at all its well know by mmo's players becouse of hate trolls and vaporware whiners.
And why should people dont like game with deep gameplay ala morrowind oblivion or no lvls no xp skill based huge world to explore bringback the mmorpg how it should be tell me why?
I know why, you all want the wow's war's aco's eq's games well sorry but true hardcore also want a game for themselfs, hope you dont mind.
Nobody is forced to follow Darkfall:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Yes but music in 60's and 70's was superior to music in 80's 90's and 2000's, so i hope it wont go same way as music did
Hehe, I strongly disagree with this type of statement. 90% of music in the 60s and 70s was as shite as 90% of the music now. There were a few great things from then that still live. There are a few things being made now that will still live 20 years from now. 'twas ever thus.
What's actually changed (and this speaks to the MMO thing as well) is that music is no longer at the "cutting edge" of the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times) now as it was in the 60s and 70s. Then, a record was a sort of promise that somebody, somewhere in the world was having a good time - like a call from a far land. Then, music was part of a statement or attitude. Now, music is just one of a vast range of options for entertainment in a world that's pretty much open and permeable - and also, a tad less idealistic and more cynical (i.e. we now know that there are no great "tomorrow's parties" where beautiful people are having a wonderful time, that was just an idealistic wish fulfillment fantasy).
Similarly with MMOs. When MUDs and early MMOs first came out, the generation that played them were more serious about roleplaying in a fantasy world - i.e. those games were as much fantasy simulations as hardcore games, and the playerbase was more dedicated to serious roleplaying (if not with others, then at least in a world with others).
The generations now playing MMOs don't have that same desire to live in a fantasy sim - the immersion aspect has taken a backseat to a faster style of progression and gameplay, based more around casual play, or younger people playing together with their friends.
But that's not necessarily a bad thing in every way - I've been posting elsewhere about how a game like CoX, while i's strongly casual-oriented, and lacks a good deal of the stuff that makes a traditional MMO, is still a great social gameplay experience because of the way PUG-ing and missions are designed.
Put simply, I think the old "formulae" are either tired and cliched, or have mutated to either a slick casual (CoX/WoW) or Guild-oriented (WoW/GW) gaming experience.
There are two beacons of hope I think though. On the one hand, the Hero engine seems to me to be the precursor of a more "generic" type of MMO engine that could be picked up by teams of enthusiasts who could make niche "hardcore" MMOs more in the old style, so it would be more like the MUD days, but with graphics (NWN/NWN2 were also experiments in this vein, but were too clunky to become as popular and as "massive" as would be required). While on the other hand, MMO evolution in itself, combined with technical evolution, will probably develop interesting new ways to get a bunch of people playing together in persistent worlds and affecting the game world by their actions.
Yes but music in 60's and 70's was superior to music in 80's 90's and 2000's, so i hope it wont go same way as music did
Hehe, I strongly disagree with this type of statement. 90% of music in the 60s and 70s was as shite as 90% of the music now. There were a few great things from then that still live. There are a few things being made now that will still live 20 years from now. 'twas ever thus.
What's actually changed (and this speaks to the MMO thing as well) is that music is no longer at the "cutting edge" of the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times) now as it was in the 60s and 70s. Then, a record was a sort of promise that somebody, somewhere in the world was having a good time - like a call from a far land. Then, music was part of a statement or attitude. Now, music is just one of a vast range of options for entertainment in a world that's pretty much open and permeable - and also, a tad less idealistic and more cynical (i.e. we now know that there are no great "tomorrow's parties" where beautiful people are having a wonderful time, that was just an idealistic wish fulfillment fantasy).
Similarly with MMOs. When MUDs and early MMOs first came out, the generation that played them were more serious about roleplaying in a fantasy world - i.e. those games were as much fantasy simulations as hardcore games, and the playerbase was more dedicated to serious roleplaying (if not with others, then at least in a world with others).
The generations now playing MMOs don't have that same desire to live in a fantasy sim - the immersion aspect has taken a backseat to a faster style of progression and gameplay, based more around casual play, or younger people playing together with their friends.
But that's not necessarily a bad thing in every way - I've been posting elsewhere about how a game like CoX, while i's strongly casual-oriented, and lacks a good deal of the stuff that makes a traditional MMO, is still a great social gameplay experience because of the way PUG-ing and missions are designed.
Put simply, I think the old "formulae" are either tired and cliched, or have mutated to either a slick casual (CoX/WoW) or Guild-oriented (WoW/GW) gaming experience.
There are two beacons of hope I think though. On the one hand, the Hero engine seems to me to be the precursor of a more "generic" type of MMO engine that could be picked up by teams of enthusiasts who could make niche "hardcore" MMOs more in the old style, so it would be more like the MUD days, but with graphics (NWN/NWN2 were also experiments in this vein, but were too clunky to become as popular and as "massive" as would be required). While on the other hand, MMO evolution in itself, combined with technical evolution, will probably develop interesting new ways to get a bunch of people playing together in persistent worlds and affecting the game world by their actions.
I know its also just matter of taste.
Im more into pinkfloyd deep purple(specially 60's DP) david bowie eagles hendrix bob dylan eric clapton santana frank zappa.
Not all rap crap or r&b crap hehe but thats my taste im sure 2000's youth 70's music is crap hehe.
And yes we dont know what future have in store for us, it prolly will evolve to more complex and higher AI and many other aspects that can chance to better mmo's.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
prolly will evolve to more complex and higher AI and many other aspects that can chance to better mmo's.
Yeah I do think better AI is a big key in all this. I keep thinking that there are going to be "AI cards" one day, just like graphics cards now. By analogy with the amount of processing taken up in the brain - as with computers, visual representation (and the other senses) take up a lot of the brain's processing, and then things like orientation and decision-making. I have a feeling that a lot of what "AI" in games represents is going to need dedicated hardware to really move on.
What's really wanted for MMOs to move on, and to have both good gameplay and some kind of return to the idea of a fantasy (or s-f or superhero or whatever) simulation, is for the game world to respond to player actions more like a DM would (e.g. in tabletop or multiplayer CRPGs like NWN or NWN2). We need:
1) more of a living, breathing game world (e.g. Oblivion as a CRPG was starting to go in this direction - none of this "NPCs standing around like dorks in the same place all day and night" crap).
2) the ability for players' questing and actions to actually change and evolve the world.
Any other requirements that could be met by better AI?
It sounds like you have tried many of the big games out there. I would recommend WoW, but you mentioned you weren't impressed by DDO(there are many similarities in the gameplay, however, ddo is more instanced). Still, you might want to try WoW. I consider myself to be a well-informed gaming consumer and I haven't found any ridiculous flaws in it thus far.
Well as a 51 yr old lady mmo player...I hate wow. Its just the community more than the game itself. I nver felt so isolated in my life! I have been jumping from game to game since swg..not fully settling anywhere. Right now I am playing Conan and free trial of LOTRO (for second time) and a free server of my very first mmo that its official sserver closed down. Most days I just don't even bother to log into any of them.Warhammer is pvp and tbh lol, pvp hurts my feelings. Silly I know but can't help it.
OP, in regard to your first post, I understand your pain.
It's not age, it's just that too many MMOs are boring.
Sure there are some great ones out there (That I've yet to find unfortunately), but companies find the best way to keep you paying that monthly fee is to make everything take as long as possible ingame - not keep you having fun for months.
Regardless of age, some of us just live faster, think faster, act faster, and ultimately have no time or patience to sit down for 12 hours watching an integer slowly rise in a database field.
You're not too old. you just haven't found an MMO fast enough to keep you interested.
I also am in the same boat; I have been playing MMOs since AC1 came out in late 99. I played AC along with SWG and continued playing AC until everything collapsed in early - mid 04. I played SWG until NGE and haven't really found a game I could play since then. I have tried most of them I just don't like being told how I am going to play (classes).
So I bounced around games for a long time and now I play a hell of a lot of Call of Duty 4 on my 360. When another game comes out with a good community (I think thats a big key) and doesn't force me into a class I will go back to MMO's. I don't care PvP or PvE, I just want a good group of friends and the freedom to choose how I play. I agree tho if Oblivion was online and I could play with others online I would slap down the money, grab the cheetos and beer and play until the wee hours of the night.
One good thing I can say about not playing any MMO's lately is that its a hell of a lot cheeper on me because I haven't needed a new computer in a really long time . I still have a 939 AMD with a 7800 Nvidia because I play my 360 on a much bigger TV. So am I too old? No but I am wiser and have saved a lot of money!
I also am in the same boat; I have been playing MMOs since AC1 came out in late 99. I played AC along with SWG and continued playing AC until everything collapsed in early - mid 04. I played SWG until NGE and haven't really found a game I could play since then. I have tried most of them I just don't like being told how I am going to play (classes). So I bounced around games for a long time and now I play a hell of a lot of Call of Duty 4 on my 360. When another game comes out with a good community (I think thats a big key) and doesn't force me into a class I will go back to MMO's. I don't care PvP or PvE, I just want a good group of friends and the freedom to choose how I play. I agree tho if Oblivion was online and I could play with others online I would slap down the money, grab the cheetos and beer and play until the wee hours of the night. One good thing I can say about not playing any MMO's lately is that its a hell of a lot cheeper on me because I haven't needed a new computer in a really long time . I still have a 939 AMD with a 7800 Nvidia because I play my 360 on a much bigger TV. So am I too old? No but I am wiser and have saved a lot of money!
It's kind of funny that the people that agree were all ex-SWG players.
There is a really good post or blog somewhere on this site about how games have changed. The author pointed out that in the early days of MMORPGs the games were designed around creating a character and playing in a simulation or online world, where as now, the games are being developed for quick, easy, casual play.
The problem as I see it, is that you can get quick, casual play from your DS to your Pc ,and all of the gaming consoles in between, for awhole heck of alot cheaper than a monthly sub to a subpar MMO.
I really feel like we are all being asked to pay more for less.
I'm pretty sure that I won't subscribe to another MMO until something comes out with an organic, open, world that encourages and incorporates social aspects into the very essence of the game.
I really think that old school SWG was a step in the right direction in so far as the social aspects being tied into combat. It just made everything flow and connect when you had to break up your combat to go to a cantina and listen to music and/or watch dancers to relieve battle fatigue. I met countless numbers of people while sitting in a hospital healing wounds while waiting for a doctor.
Yes there were alot of poorly designed concepts that went along with old school SWG, but the things I mentioned, coupled with unparalleled character customization, both skill wise and aesthetics, made up for that fact and then some.
I could go on and on, but I'm sure most of you are sick of reading nostalgic posts from people pining over a lost game. I would just really like to see the genre take a turn in a new direction and focus on streamlining the things that make the genre suck. (grinding, money sinks, time sinks, carrot-on-a-stick design philosophy, and itemization being greater than player skill)
It is not likely your age, its the same thing with console games, older games simply have more depth and creativity new games are just to shallow. Now some new games are actually good but not many although the ds does bring back some old school challenges, and wiiware is starting to have some kind of retro revolution with megaman 9 in 8 bit and some shooter game with 16 bit I think.
Anyways my point is now they either try to make it with great graphics but extremly linear and of course simple mostly so they can get little kids into it.
I think ao is probably the best thing out there right now when it comes to depth but I cant play it yet on this old cpu I need a graphics card.
I used to love MMORPGs. I spent alot of time playing table top games before MMOs came out. D&D, Blood Bowl, Warhammer, and d20 Star Wars to name a few favorites. Now I can't get into any games. I resent the fact that MMOs charge monthly fees. Free to play microtransaction games are, as a rule, always boring grindfests with tons of immature players. I don't know what happened. I played a few MMORPGs, but I didn't start playing on a daily basis until SWG came out. After the NGE I went back to FFXI, but realized that I don't want to devote that much time to playing a game. FFXI is not at all casual friendly. I played WoW beta for a year or so and loved it. I got frustrated when release hit and I had to start over from scratch and then I just got burned out about 6 months after release. Since then I've bounced around from game to game trying to find one that's worth a subscription, but none of the current games do. The only game I've even thought about playing again with any zeal is Phanatsy Star Universe. The problem with that is I only want to play the 360 version. I traded my copy in and can't find the game in any stores, not to mention I'd have to fill up precious hard drive space on my 360 with the expansion. I hate EVE with a passion. It's boring, the combat sucks, mining is like watching grass grow, and the only saving grace of the game is the socializing with people in the EVE radio channel. AoC sucked, AO is lame now, CoX is way too repetitive, DDO sucks, and I could go on and on about every game that's out that's half-way worth the effort to try them out. Will we ever get a good solid title that is worth a monthly fee?
I'm kinda surprised you came up with PSU. I did love that game for a while, though I hated it at the same time. Your decision to play it on the 360 will likely mitigate or eliminate many of the things I hated about it. It has its flaws, but it sounds like you've done your research on it. If you want to talk more on that game in particular, message me.
If you want another suggestion, it sounds like you want a game that just offers you some quick fun to jump into but isn't terribly repetitive and has some depth to it. I'd suggest Guild Wars. Its PVE content is slightly like that of PSU, in that it's all instanced and comes largely in the form of scripted missions which have you progressing along a linear path. They're still pretty fun, but there's not a lot of replay value to them. If you play the game a lot, you eventually learn to do them all in your sleep with just the AI-controlled henchmen backing you up.
Another plus is that the game is not really itemized. There are gear choices to be made, but that's more for strategy, not to add a grind element. It's not difficult at all to get armor and weapons of top quality. The only stuff you really have to grind for was thrown in there as a bone to your typical obsessive compulsive MMO item whore. You can replicate almost any green weapon (the named bullshit) with a collector weapon (very easy to get) + weapon mods. The "good" armor has the exact same stats as the cheap stuff, just looks different and is massively, massively more expensive.
I get the feeling some things about Guild Wars might turn you off, though.
There isn't a lot of PvE content in any one of the installments. To get at all of the PvE content, you'd need to buy all of the expansions. If you play casually, though, it wouldn't be a huge investment. Basically, just play through one, and when you complete it, buy the next. The average cost of that should probably be around that of paying a monthly fee, or less if you go slowly. There also isn't a terrible amount of replay value to the missions.
The real focus of the game is PvP. Guild Wars is pretty much the pinnacle of arena RPG PvP available. It's fun, accessible, but highly strategic and very competitive at the top levels. If you don't like that aspect of the game, you might eventually find it lacking.
PUG's are terrible. Without a doubt, the worst PUG's I've ever seen in any MMORPG. I'm not saying that because I sucked. By the time I left, I could easily solo every mission available with just the AI-controlled henchmen. By far, the average player in that game for a PUG was worse than the AI-controlled guys who barely followed your commands. They've beefed up that system a lot since then, too. You can now essentially make a fully customizable party to fight alongside you.
Strategy in the game is its strength and weakness. GW lets you completely change your build at will between fights, with almost no cost. You're encouraged to get the best loadout for your arena team or for the PvE mission at hand. If you kinda suck at this, though, it can make the game frustrating. Many people found the PvE content incredibly easy, which it really is, but if you went to any of the "harder" mission zones, you'd find hordes of people stuck on them.
Comments
I agree
I'm lucky if I spend more than 2 weeks with some of the crappy single player RPGs created from the past year
regarding DND4E - wont see that Virtual table top until late fall or next spring
and they hope to you charge you 14.95/month like mmos
forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php
EQ2 fan sites
I agree
I'm lucky if I spend more than 2 weeks with some of the crappy single player RPGs created from the past year
regarding DND4E - wont see that Virtual table top until late fall or next spring
and they hope to you charge you 14.95/month like mmos
forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php
I didn't know the virtual table top release was so far off.
But I would pay 14.95 if it turns out to be good, and I can find some really cool dungeon masters.
The fun thing about Dungeons and Dragons is playing your character, and reacting to the other players, and all the characters the Dungeon Master creates. It really doesn't matter whether you're playing a level 5 character, or a level 15 character (keep in mind DnD typically went to level 20 max).
You might fight tougher monsters, but the fun part was the roleplay and story telling, so leveling wasn't all that important. leveling, or gaining skills, has become everything in MMORPGs now.
Disregard
I've tried EQ2 several times and it never sticks with me. I don't think that Warhammer will offer anything new or innovative, I hope that I'm wrong.
I read the link to the info about the virtual table top and I think those guys are off their rockers. $14.95 a month plus added expenses to purchase online virtual miniatures and tilesets.
This kind of crap is getting out of hand.
Do they really think that they can get a way with charging a monthly fee AND microtransactions?
You can make modules to play online with people in NWN2 and none of that costs more than the boxes for the original game and the expansions. You don't have to pay extra for tilesets, mobs, character tokens, ect. Everything is represented in 3D.
They're charging a monthly fee for 2D tokens for christs sake.
I personally think they will never get 14.95 and will need to lower the price
if you read section GT11 of the D&D Insider FAQ
forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php
it does state that subscribers can give guest passes to nonsubscribers
but it's still too pricey
EQ2 fan sites
Hey Kryo
Then I'm really old at 62,,,geeezzzzz....I think it's the quality of the MMO'S out there that makes them boring and not our age except for the youngsters that are easily entertianed..Most of my posts are asking people about MMO's listed here..
For me I''m hunting for the next Asheron's Call..I fell in love with that game...since then I've been constantly hunting..
I'm really considering browser RPG's just for something new>
I'm in the same situation now. I jump from game to game looking for that something that they just don't seem to have.
I used to do tabletop RP/wargames with friends from when i was about 12 years old, but over time we drifted apart and gaming became less frequent until stopping completely. That's when i got into my first MMO, Ultima Online. I was in a great guild (i.e. mature) and it was the best time i've had in any mmo, but as with all things eventually it came to an end. EA changed the game and graphics. Now i hardly know anyone still playing UO.
I have been searching for a similar experience since then and i just recently came to the conclusion that i'm not going to find it, for two reasons.
1) Kids. Remember when you were called a geek or computer need for playing an MMO? (might only apply to the really old farts here
.) Yet these days all the kids are online, and to me this is why MMO's are as bad as they are. In general (note i'm not saying all kids) players now want things easy and want the rewards now. Look at being a tamer in UO. Some players spent years maxing their taming skills. Now you create a new character and put a few pieces of jewelry on and you're done 
. Sandbox games are a rarity because players now want to be led through steps from one quest to another, and the majority of general chat is filled with morons begging for money or just slagging each other off (WoW Barrens chat ring a bell to anyone?)
2) RPG. Companies are creating games which cater less and less to those who like to roleplay, and even when they have RP servers the rules are rarely enforced and the servers fill with the "l33t" crowd with their stupid "IpWnU" names who have no idea what RP is other than players talk weird to each other and sometimes use that strange language called english (on english servers obviously). At least in RP's you play at home you can kick out anyone who was an idiot.
Lately i've been playing F.E.A.R. and Diablo2 because i'm sick of trawling through MMO's looking for one with a more mature player base (EVE does fit the bill best, but i prefer playing a character rather than a ship), and the only MMO that has the slightest bit of interest for me now is Darkfall because it seems like it may have the diversity that UO used to have, but i'm trying not to get my hopes up too much.
No your not, you seems very young to me and you hate about all kinds of different mmorpgs you dont want it to be to difficult.
What you exspected after a longtime playing a beta, it was btw not a year it was about 8 months.
You hate immature player base but you play console and those are for kids:P
PSU is also grindfest.
Maybe only table top games is your cup of tea:)
Darkfall is game to wait for but its very hardcore so prolly also not for you, you seems to have even a bigger problem then me it seems:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Yes but music in 60's and 70's was superior to music in 80's 90's and 2000's, so i hope it wont go same way as music did
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
eh, i have to agree with the many F2P MMOs being nothing more than grindfests.
Warhammer is a game Im looking foreward to trying, as well as Earthrise. You should check out the latter at least.
http://forums.play-earthrise.com/index.php?topic=1472.0;topicseen
great compilation of info about the game, as well as screenshots and concept art. Beta is actually set to start this year from what I've read, and the community in the forum so far is great.
I know how the OP feels. we have all been there. BTW I'm in my late 30's , MMO's have no age restrictions whatsoever. In fact its kinda odd to me that so many young people play these games for hours upon hours. I have a stressful job and a mortgage, MMO's are a way to escape and relax at my age but when I was young there was no way I was sitting in front of a computer for hours...I was out partying and doing things with friends non-stop. /shrug IDK, MMOs seem to be more suited to older folk than younger ones, but thats just my observation and opinion.
As far as the game situation, I have been there too, just wait as there are alot of new games coming to market over the next few years. I am watching WAR and Earthrise myself. Till then I raid with my guild in WOW and we are quickkly approaching endgame in Black Temple. For me, WOW is the game as it has too many of the things I want in an MMO that others simply dont have.
In the end, just decide whats important to you in an MMO, then try and find something that has at least 80% of what your looking for. There is never going to be a 100% game out there for anyone. Good luck!
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
I love D&D p&P and was looking foward to the new table online but no way am i paying that much for it what a rip off.
very sad.
No your not, you seems very young to me and you hate about all kinds of different mmorpgs you dont want it to be to difficult.
What you exspected after a longtime playing a beta, it was btw not a year it was about 8 months.
You hate immature player base but you play console and those are for kids:P
PSU is also grindfest.
Maybe only table top games is your cup of tea:)
Darkfall is game to wait for but its very hardcore so prolly also not for you, you seems to have even a bigger problem then me it seems:)
Holy +1 sword of generalizations and assumptions, Batman.
First off, I'm 30 years old.
I don't mind difficult games, but I absolutely can't stand when itemization takes precedence over player skill.
I have a ton of age 23+ gamers on my Xbox Live Friend's list and I've also gamed with some pretty mature players on PSN. You shouldn't speak so matter of factly about something you seemed to have little to no experience with.
PSU is grindfest, but it's also a good action RPG that is actually quite fun.
I still like table top gaming, but that doesn't change the fact that the MMORPG genre is seriously lacking.
And I don't have a clue why so many people are saying that Darkfall will be so great. The screenshots look horrid, it's been in development for way too long, and if it ever gets release I'll judge then what kind of game it is. Too many people have started hyping games that they've never played and then when the games are finally released, they get all bent out of shape and cry about how disapointed they are in the game.
No your not, you seems very young to me and you hate about all kinds of different mmorpgs you dont want it to be to difficult.
What you exspected after a longtime playing a beta, it was btw not a year it was about 8 months.
You hate immature player base but you play console and those are for kids:P
PSU is also grindfest.
Maybe only table top games is your cup of tea:)
Darkfall is game to wait for but its very hardcore so prolly also not for you, you seems to have even a bigger problem then me it seems:)
Holy +1 sword of generalizations and assumptions, Batman.
First off, I'm 30 years old.
I don't mind difficult games, but I absolutely can't stand when itemization takes precedence over player skill.
I have a ton of age 23+ gamers on my Xbox Live Friend's list and I've also gamed with some pretty mature players on PSN. You shouldn't speak so matter of factly about something you seemed to have little to no experience with.
PSU is grindfest, but it's also a good action RPG that is actually quite fun.
I still like table top gaming, but that doesn't change the fact that the MMORPG genre is seriously lacking.
And I don't have a clue why so many people are saying that Darkfall will be so great. The screenshots look horrid, it's been in development for way too long, and if it ever gets release I'll judge then what kind of game it is. Too many people have started hyping games that they've never played and then when the games are finally released, they get all bent out of shape and cry about how disapointed they are in the game.
You like wow and you say screenshots Darkfall look horrid?
You mean you dont like style of Darkfall right?
Screenshots 2008 Darkfall are as good or even better then lets say AoC, so what are you talking about screens from before 2006?
And common be honest and bit wiser its been mostly HYPED by trolls who shout vaporware or hate games like Darkfall.
Darkfall is not hyped at all its well know by mmo's players becouse of hate trolls and vaporware whiners.
And why should people dont like game with deep gameplay ala morrowind oblivion or no lvls no xp skill based huge world to explore bringback the mmorpg how it should be tell me why?
I know why, you all want the wow's war's aco's eq's games well sorry but true hardcore also want a game for themselfs, hope you dont mind.
Nobody is forced to follow Darkfall:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Hehe, I strongly disagree with this type of statement. 90% of music in the 60s and 70s was as shite as 90% of the music now. There were a few great things from then that still live. There are a few things being made now that will still live 20 years from now. 'twas ever thus.
What's actually changed (and this speaks to the MMO thing as well) is that music is no longer at the "cutting edge" of the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times) now as it was in the 60s and 70s. Then, a record was a sort of promise that somebody, somewhere in the world was having a good time - like a call from a far land. Then, music was part of a statement or attitude. Now, music is just one of a vast range of options for entertainment in a world that's pretty much open and permeable - and also, a tad less idealistic and more cynical (i.e. we now know that there are no great "tomorrow's parties" where beautiful people are having a wonderful time, that was just an idealistic wish fulfillment fantasy).
Similarly with MMOs. When MUDs and early MMOs first came out, the generation that played them were more serious about roleplaying in a fantasy world - i.e. those games were as much fantasy simulations as hardcore games, and the playerbase was more dedicated to serious roleplaying (if not with others, then at least in a world with others).
The generations now playing MMOs don't have that same desire to live in a fantasy sim - the immersion aspect has taken a backseat to a faster style of progression and gameplay, based more around casual play, or younger people playing together with their friends.
But that's not necessarily a bad thing in every way - I've been posting elsewhere about how a game like CoX, while i's strongly casual-oriented, and lacks a good deal of the stuff that makes a traditional MMO, is still a great social gameplay experience because of the way PUG-ing and missions are designed.
Put simply, I think the old "formulae" are either tired and cliched, or have mutated to either a slick casual (CoX/WoW) or Guild-oriented (WoW/GW) gaming experience.
There are two beacons of hope I think though. On the one hand, the Hero engine seems to me to be the precursor of a more "generic" type of MMO engine that could be picked up by teams of enthusiasts who could make niche "hardcore" MMOs more in the old style, so it would be more like the MUD days, but with graphics (NWN/NWN2 were also experiments in this vein, but were too clunky to become as popular and as "massive" as would be required). While on the other hand, MMO evolution in itself, combined with technical evolution, will probably develop interesting new ways to get a bunch of people playing together in persistent worlds and affecting the game world by their actions.
Hehe, I strongly disagree with this type of statement. 90% of music in the 60s and 70s was as shite as 90% of the music now. There were a few great things from then that still live. There are a few things being made now that will still live 20 years from now. 'twas ever thus.
What's actually changed (and this speaks to the MMO thing as well) is that music is no longer at the "cutting edge" of the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times) now as it was in the 60s and 70s. Then, a record was a sort of promise that somebody, somewhere in the world was having a good time - like a call from a far land. Then, music was part of a statement or attitude. Now, music is just one of a vast range of options for entertainment in a world that's pretty much open and permeable - and also, a tad less idealistic and more cynical (i.e. we now know that there are no great "tomorrow's parties" where beautiful people are having a wonderful time, that was just an idealistic wish fulfillment fantasy).
Similarly with MMOs. When MUDs and early MMOs first came out, the generation that played them were more serious about roleplaying in a fantasy world - i.e. those games were as much fantasy simulations as hardcore games, and the playerbase was more dedicated to serious roleplaying (if not with others, then at least in a world with others).
The generations now playing MMOs don't have that same desire to live in a fantasy sim - the immersion aspect has taken a backseat to a faster style of progression and gameplay, based more around casual play, or younger people playing together with their friends.
But that's not necessarily a bad thing in every way - I've been posting elsewhere about how a game like CoX, while i's strongly casual-oriented, and lacks a good deal of the stuff that makes a traditional MMO, is still a great social gameplay experience because of the way PUG-ing and missions are designed.
Put simply, I think the old "formulae" are either tired and cliched, or have mutated to either a slick casual (CoX/WoW) or Guild-oriented (WoW/GW) gaming experience.
There are two beacons of hope I think though. On the one hand, the Hero engine seems to me to be the precursor of a more "generic" type of MMO engine that could be picked up by teams of enthusiasts who could make niche "hardcore" MMOs more in the old style, so it would be more like the MUD days, but with graphics (NWN/NWN2 were also experiments in this vein, but were too clunky to become as popular and as "massive" as would be required). While on the other hand, MMO evolution in itself, combined with technical evolution, will probably develop interesting new ways to get a bunch of people playing together in persistent worlds and affecting the game world by their actions.
I know its also just matter of taste.
Im more into pinkfloyd deep purple(specially 60's DP) david bowie eagles hendrix bob dylan eric clapton santana frank zappa.
Not all rap crap or r&b crap hehe but thats my taste im sure 2000's youth 70's music is crap hehe.
And yes we dont know what future have in store for us, it prolly will evolve to more complex and higher AI and many other aspects that can chance to better mmo's.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Yeah I do think better AI is a big key in all this. I keep thinking that there are going to be "AI cards" one day, just like graphics cards now. By analogy with the amount of processing taken up in the brain - as with computers, visual representation (and the other senses) take up a lot of the brain's processing, and then things like orientation and decision-making. I have a feeling that a lot of what "AI" in games represents is going to need dedicated hardware to really move on.
What's really wanted for MMOs to move on, and to have both good gameplay and some kind of return to the idea of a fantasy (or s-f or superhero or whatever) simulation, is for the game world to respond to player actions more like a DM would (e.g. in tabletop or multiplayer CRPGs like NWN or NWN2). We need:
1) more of a living, breathing game world (e.g. Oblivion as a CRPG was starting to go in this direction - none of this "NPCs standing around like dorks in the same place all day and night" crap).
2) the ability for players' questing and actions to actually change and evolve the world.
Any other requirements that could be met by better AI?
It sounds like you have tried many of the big games out there. I would recommend WoW, but you mentioned you weren't impressed by DDO(there are many similarities in the gameplay, however, ddo is more instanced). Still, you might want to try WoW. I consider myself to be a well-informed gaming consumer and I haven't found any ridiculous flaws in it thus far.
Well as a 51 yr old lady mmo player...I hate wow. Its just the community more than the game itself. I nver felt so isolated in my life! I have been jumping from game to game since swg..not fully settling anywhere. Right now I am playing Conan and free trial of LOTRO (for second time) and a free server of my very first mmo that its official sserver closed down. Most days I just don't even bother to log into any of them.Warhammer is pvp and tbh lol, pvp hurts my feelings. Silly I know but can't help it.
OP, in regard to your first post, I understand your pain.
It's not age, it's just that too many MMOs are boring.
Sure there are some great ones out there (That I've yet to find unfortunately), but companies find the best way to keep you paying that monthly fee is to make everything take as long as possible ingame - not keep you having fun for months.
Regardless of age, some of us just live faster, think faster, act faster, and ultimately have no time or patience to sit down for 12 hours watching an integer slowly rise in a database field.
You're not too old. you just haven't found an MMO fast enough to keep you interested.
haha ok well i guess thats cool
I also am in the same boat; I have been playing MMOs since AC1 came out in late 99. I played AC along with SWG and continued playing AC until everything collapsed in early - mid 04. I played SWG until NGE and haven't really found a game I could play since then. I have tried most of them I just don't like being told how I am going to play (classes).
So I bounced around games for a long time and now I play a hell of a lot of Call of Duty 4 on my 360. When another game comes out with a good community (I think thats a big key) and doesn't force me into a class I will go back to MMO's. I don't care PvP or PvE, I just want a good group of friends and the freedom to choose how I play. I agree tho if Oblivion was online and I could play with others online I would slap down the money, grab the cheetos and beer and play until the wee hours of the night.
One good thing I can say about not playing any MMO's lately is that its a hell of a lot cheeper on me because I haven't needed a new computer in a really long time
. I still have a 939 AMD with a 7800 Nvidia because I play my 360 on a much bigger TV. So am I too old? No but I am wiser and have saved a lot of money!
It's kind of funny that the people that agree were all ex-SWG players.
There is a really good post or blog somewhere on this site about how games have changed. The author pointed out that in the early days of MMORPGs the games were designed around creating a character and playing in a simulation or online world, where as now, the games are being developed for quick, easy, casual play.
The problem as I see it, is that you can get quick, casual play from your DS to your Pc ,and all of the gaming consoles in between, for awhole heck of alot cheaper than a monthly sub to a subpar MMO.
I really feel like we are all being asked to pay more for less.
I'm pretty sure that I won't subscribe to another MMO until something comes out with an organic, open, world that encourages and incorporates social aspects into the very essence of the game.
I really think that old school SWG was a step in the right direction in so far as the social aspects being tied into combat. It just made everything flow and connect when you had to break up your combat to go to a cantina and listen to music and/or watch dancers to relieve battle fatigue. I met countless numbers of people while sitting in a hospital healing wounds while waiting for a doctor.
Yes there were alot of poorly designed concepts that went along with old school SWG, but the things I mentioned, coupled with unparalleled character customization, both skill wise and aesthetics, made up for that fact and then some.
I could go on and on, but I'm sure most of you are sick of reading nostalgic posts from people pining over a lost game. I would just really like to see the genre take a turn in a new direction and focus on streamlining the things that make the genre suck. (grinding, money sinks, time sinks, carrot-on-a-stick design philosophy, and itemization being greater than player skill)
It is not likely your age, its the same thing with console games, older games simply have more depth and creativity new games are just to shallow. Now some new games are actually good but not many although the ds does bring back some old school challenges, and wiiware is starting to have some kind of retro revolution with megaman 9 in 8 bit and some shooter game with 16 bit I think.
Anyways my point is now they either try to make it with great graphics but extremly linear and of course simple mostly so they can get little kids into it.
I think ao is probably the best thing out there right now when it comes to depth but I cant play it yet on this old cpu I need a graphics card.
I'm kinda surprised you came up with PSU. I did love that game for a while, though I hated it at the same time. Your decision to play it on the 360 will likely mitigate or eliminate many of the things I hated about it. It has its flaws, but it sounds like you've done your research on it. If you want to talk more on that game in particular, message me.
If you want another suggestion, it sounds like you want a game that just offers you some quick fun to jump into but isn't terribly repetitive and has some depth to it. I'd suggest Guild Wars. Its PVE content is slightly like that of PSU, in that it's all instanced and comes largely in the form of scripted missions which have you progressing along a linear path. They're still pretty fun, but there's not a lot of replay value to them. If you play the game a lot, you eventually learn to do them all in your sleep with just the AI-controlled henchmen backing you up.
Another plus is that the game is not really itemized. There are gear choices to be made, but that's more for strategy, not to add a grind element. It's not difficult at all to get armor and weapons of top quality. The only stuff you really have to grind for was thrown in there as a bone to your typical obsessive compulsive MMO item whore. You can replicate almost any green weapon (the named bullshit) with a collector weapon (very easy to get) + weapon mods. The "good" armor has the exact same stats as the cheap stuff, just looks different and is massively, massively more expensive.
I get the feeling some things about Guild Wars might turn you off, though.
There isn't a lot of PvE content in any one of the installments. To get at all of the PvE content, you'd need to buy all of the expansions. If you play casually, though, it wouldn't be a huge investment. Basically, just play through one, and when you complete it, buy the next. The average cost of that should probably be around that of paying a monthly fee, or less if you go slowly. There also isn't a terrible amount of replay value to the missions.
The real focus of the game is PvP. Guild Wars is pretty much the pinnacle of arena RPG PvP available. It's fun, accessible, but highly strategic and very competitive at the top levels. If you don't like that aspect of the game, you might eventually find it lacking.
PUG's are terrible. Without a doubt, the worst PUG's I've ever seen in any MMORPG. I'm not saying that because I sucked. By the time I left, I could easily solo every mission available with just the AI-controlled henchmen. By far, the average player in that game for a PUG was worse than the AI-controlled guys who barely followed your commands. They've beefed up that system a lot since then, too. You can now essentially make a fully customizable party to fight alongside you.
Strategy in the game is its strength and weakness. GW lets you completely change your build at will between fights, with almost no cost. You're encouraged to get the best loadout for your arena team or for the PvE mission at hand. If you kinda suck at this, though, it can make the game frustrating. Many people found the PvE content incredibly easy, which it really is, but if you went to any of the "harder" mission zones, you'd find hordes of people stuck on them.