With 10M subs, Blizzard should be kicking out free content either weekly or monthly.
I am talking HUGE content additions on a regular basis.
There is no excuse for it...they are making money hand over fist. Giving a little back for the devs/writers/artists to produce content wouldnt break their bank.
Simply a matter of greed...and folks cried when SOE was milking EQ with their 400k subs...HA.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Azeroth being abandoned? Wtf? When WOTLK comes out, you'll see BOTH Outland AND Azeroth being abandoned. Get with the times - things change, work with it or gtfo.
I have heard tell that lessons were learned from TBC and this was one of them. Expect things to be a bit different when WotLK comes out.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Azeroth being abandoned? Wtf? When WOTLK comes out, you'll see BOTH Outland AND Azeroth being abandoned. Get with the times - things change, work with it or gtfo.
I have heard tell that lessons were learned from TBC and this was one of them. Expect things to be a bit different when WotLK comes out.
Really? How so? I can only see the new Shattrath being the floating city of Dalaran. The Shattrath now will be and will remain empty just like Silvermoon City.
Blizzard says they're releasing content patches, but from the point of view of a player that did not have the patience to reach level 30, there's nothing new to the game to make it more appealing to me.
Most of it is small tweaks that don't bother us much. Big deal that the trees got changed and the level 41 skill is different. I never got to try the first one!
I wanted to try battlegrounds, but all I had was the cruddy, horribly imbalanced CTF (level 30 vs level 25 = pwned, which isn't very fun).
Blizzard says they're releasing content patches, but from the point of view of a player that did not have the patience to reach level 30, there's nothing new to the game to make it more appealing to me. Most of it is small tweaks that don't bother us much. Big deal that the trees got changed and the level 41 skill is different. I never got to try the first one! I wanted to try battlegrounds, but all I had was the cruddy, horribly imbalanced CTF (level 30 vs level 25 = pwned, which isn't very fun).
MMO shouldnt be charging for expansions, If games like Lineage 2, CoX, and others can give away expansions every 3to 4 months then the beast Blizzard has made can afford to do that as well.
but they wont, they follow Everquests method of content distribution, The monthly fee should cover expansions but certain companies wont do that.
Hell i dont mind paying for Expansions, problem is blizzard hasnt really released any!!! LOL
well except Tbc in four years
Eve has released What 5-6 Xpacs in 5 years.
Its not quantity, but quality that matters. The last free update, that included a new zone and two new dungeons, features the best PvE raiding content in the world. I would like to see EVE top that. Wait, it can't since EVE is a point-and-click 'PvP' game.
All the crap that blizzard released was suppost to be in the Xpac on release.....
Dude that "new zone" is small as hell and the instance is like 30 minutes long. give me a break.
dude WoW can't touch eve in complexity and quality. More subs doesnt equal a better game.
Eve may be point and click but the combat is sure as hell more tactical and complex than Wow's.
Wow is basically a MMO with FPS controls were the ADD kids spin avatars around like tops and exploit Line of sight thats not combat.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP.
SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I've cleared SWP, and I didn't feel any sort of real accomplishment, because now more and more guilds are clearing it. That is the problem with this game, there is no sense of accomplishment because in the end, you are no better than anyone once they get the gear they need.
Everyone can be the top level, have the best gears, and clear the hardest instances in not that much time apart from the people who do it first.
The only real sense of accomplishment I ever felt was in EQ. Finally getting to PoT was truly an experience that not many people have ever experienced and still won't till this day. Not everyone was at the top level and when you go there, it was an accomplishment because it took actual work and you knowing the game environment and how to you play your class. There were no quests, or only 3 buttons you had to smash over and over and over again to get to max level in a month.
WoW is a joke and Blizzard isn't making it what it could possibly be.
However, they have a nicely polished easy-mode game for casual players, where everyone is an equal and you're only "hardcore" if you raid a lot, which is seriously lame that the only thing to set apart the elite from the scrubs is how many hours you've wasted in that game. And before you go on, yes I know all MMOs the top players have played more then the lesser, but there was a visible difference whether it was in gear or levels. Someone who has been playing only for a year can be as high in levels and as geared out as someone who has been playing since launch and to me that is just pathetic and retarded.
MMO shouldnt be charging for expansions, If games like Lineage 2, CoX, and others can give away expansions every 3to 4 months then the beast Blizzard has made can afford to do that as well.
but they wont, they follow Everquests method of content distribution, The monthly fee should cover expansions but certain companies wont do that.
Hell i dont mind paying for Expansions, problem is blizzard hasnt really released any!!! LOL
well except Tbc in four years
Eve has released What 5-6 Xpacs in 5 years.
Its not quantity, but quality that matters. The last free update, that included a new zone and two new dungeons, features the best PvE raiding content in the world. I would like to see EVE top that. Wait, it can't since EVE is a point-and-click 'PvP' game.
All the crap that blizzard released was suppost to be in the Xpac on release.....
Dude that "new zone" is small as hell and the instance is like 30 minutes long. give me a break.
dude WoW can't touch eve in complexity and quality. More subs doesnt equal a better game.
Eve may be point and click but the combat is sure as hell more tactical and complex than Wow's.
Wow is basically a MMO with FPS controls were the ADD kids spin avatars around like tops and exploit Line of sight thats not combat.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP.
SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I've cleared SWP, and I didn't feel any sort of real accomplishment, because now more and more guilds are clearing it. That is the problem with this game, there is no sense of accomplishment because in the end, you are no better than anyone once they get the gear they need.
I disagree with some of this because there is a great deal of accomplishment when someone in season 2 pvp gear takes out someone in season 3 pvp gear, so the gap between gear ability and skill ability really isn't as wide as you make it out to seem to be. The game involves skill too.
Everyone can be the top level, have the best gears, and clear the hardest instances in not that much time apart from the people who do it first.
That is why the game is so good, because it does not discriminate against certain players.
The only real sense of accomplishment I ever felt was in EQ. Finally getting to PoT was truly an experience that not many people have ever experienced and still won't till this day. Not everyone was at the top level and when you go there, it was an accomplishment because it took actual work and you knowing the game environment and how to you play your class. There were no quests, or only 3 buttons you had to smash over and over and over again to get to max level in a month.
WoW is a joke and Blizzard isn't making it what it could possibly be.
However, they have a nicely polished easy-mode game for casual players, where everyone is an equal and you're only "hardcore" if you raid a lot, which is seriously lame that the only thing to set apart the elite from the scrubs is how many hours you've wasted in that game. And before you go on, yes I know all MMOs the top players have played more then the lesser, but there was a visible difference whether it was in gear or levels. Someone who has been playing only for a year can be as high in levels and as geared out as someone who has been playing since launch and to me that is just pathetic and retarded.
However, they have a nicely polished easy-mode game for casual players, where everyone is an equal and you're only "hardcore" if you raid a lot, which is seriously lame that the only thing to set apart the elite from the scrubs is how many hours you've wasted in that game. And before you go on, yes I know all MMOs the top players have played more then the lesser, but there was a visible difference whether it was in gear or levels. Someone who has been playing only for a year can be as high in levels and as geared out as someone who has been playing since launch and to me that is just pathetic and retarded.
Really now? I've always found it rather encouraging to play the game because of the reason that the veterans do not dominate the new players.
And someone is going to shoot me for this one but...just like EVE. The Veterans will always be the more powerful. The newbies won't ever work up to the same level as them.
And imo, that's very very discouraging to play.
But again, that's just me. I find entertainment in challenging other players of the same level. And when you're actually victorious? It feels that much better.
Rather than being overly powerful and just curb stomping on the newbies - it can be fun for a short bit, but yeah...
That is why I cancelled long ago. Blizzard is stuffing their pockets, and just sitting on their laurels. This game should blow away any game ever made, but it doesn't. The level grind is almost the exact same as it was in '04. The BGs are the exact same, since day one. There is nothing new, nothing mind-blowing about WoW. 150 million dollars a month in revenue, and they update less than Asherons Call and its 10,000 subsribers.
Dude the 10 million people that play WoW will buy the Xpac for sure. But afterward blizzard will release no content until the next Xpac milking its playerbase. Hell the Xpac is only giving us one new class, a pvp zone and a LotRO lore book rip off. I'm sorry but thats not enough. the sheep will flock to WotLK but i wont.
Well I'm mad at Blizzard because of their false and misleading advertising.
How can they dare say 10 million players when I quit? Should they not be forced to say 9.999 million players?
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP. SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
And that is your opinion as well. I'm betting any EQ1 vets could definitely argue that EQ1 currently has (and probably always will have) the best end-game raiding ever.
You talk accomplishment? You've never been in the first wave zoning into the Plane of Fear when the baddies are grouped up en-mass at the portal to wipe you out instantly forcing you into an hours-long corpse recovery with your guild.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
I can see a feeling of accomplishment in SWP. I would equate it to the feeling of accomplishment for hitting level 70. A quick hurrah for 'beating' it and then lather, rinse and repeat all over again.
With WoW, once you know the strategy, you are invincible.
And that is your opinion as well. I'm betting any EQ1 vets could definitely argue that EQ1 currently has (and probably always will have) the best end-game raiding ever. You talk accomplishment? You've never been in the first wave zoning into the Plane of Fear when the baddies are grouped up en-mass at the portal to wipe you out instantly forcing you into an hours-long corpse recovery with your guild. I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment. I can see a feeling of accomplishment in SWP. I would equate it to the feeling of accomplishment for hitting level 70. A quick hurrah for 'beating' it and then lather, rinse and repeat all over again. With WoW, once you know the strategy, you are invincible.
Sorry. I've never played EQ or EQ2 but what kind of accomplishment is being killed only to corpse run for hours? I, for one, wouldn't play that kind of game.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP. SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
Thats why WoW got better Raid Endgame then EQ. I mean seriously pointing out a gamebreaking bug and state at the same time that EQ got a better Raidgame is a failure.
WoW has something going for it that this "conversation" sure doesn't: it's fun.
I don't get where the problem is. Play it or don't. A lot of the complaining seems to come from people who really care about their pretend armor on their pretend people in a pretend world a teeeeeensy bit too much.
For myself, as a non-video-game writer/musician/designer, I find WoW to have charm and creativity that is utterly lacking in other mmos I have tried. There is a a real sense of atmosphere, accomplished with very simple elements of sound and color. This is so despite the much maligned "lack of realism," a comical complaint when levelled against a video game, but also one which shows ignorance of basic issues in computer art. It is well-known in the CGI world that the closer models get to recognizable equivalents in the real world, the harder it becomes to make them convincingly expressive. Blizzard was very intelligent in their choice of design elements, and in the degree to which things attempt to emulate reality, and it has worked to their advantage.
For comparison's sake, fight a couple things in WoW... an ogre and a wolf, for example. Then go fight the comparable mobs in Lotro. The backgrounds are unquestionably beautiful in Lotro, the zones get the feel of the IP just right. But the mobs don't feel like they are really responding to your presence at all, they are obviously just going through an animation routine triggered by your proximity. There's an awkwardness of motion, but more critically than that a lack of personality and emotion in the animations. Go back to Wow again, and watch that wolf charge at you. Watch the ogre get upset and come after you. It feels "real," or better yet, it feels "right."
It's an amazing piece of design through and through, and it only becomes a problem to complain about if your obsession is with gear and levelling and raids. Otherwise it is fun for unreasonably long periods of time, in a number of ways. Gosh, you could even notice the "rp" in mmorpg, and try some of it, either with other players or in your own head. Or you can play with the potential of different class/race/talent tree combinations. Or you can get into the crafting part of it, which hangs together astonishingly well, it's a market you can actually work much like a real one, in some ways the most "realistic" aspect of the game.
Or just keep hating it... though some of the anger on here causes one to question whether it's really Blizzard people are angry at.
Blizzard never Released cheap, cheesy, incomplete expansions Expansions for single player games are not the same as an expansion for an MMO - and they've only released one of those... give it time Double billed my credit (or prevented me from not canceling) I have been prevented from cancelling on two separate occasions. The solution was to call Blizzard directly, long distance, during daytime hours forcing me to be at home and not at work when I call (travel extensively at work). Bull-shitted me about content, products, or services Banning curious players who found a way up to the Ironforge Airstrip above Ironforge or found their way into Old Ironforge is bullshit. Don't put something in the game, even for looks, and punish players who want to take a closer look. Pure BS
Blizzard has always
Created mostly complete, fun, interesting games I used to think so too until WoW Allowed me to play Warcraft 3 online for FREE Nothing special here... all RTS strategy games have been doing this since Total Annihilation (and before). Allowed me to easily quit, join, subscribe, or cancel at will See above.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP. SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
Thats why WoW got better Raid Endgame then EQ. I mean seriously pointing out a gamebreaking bug and state at the same time that EQ got a better Raidgame is a failure.
Gamebreaking? Hell no, boy. You miss the grand picture. If you think it's game-breaking then WoW must be your first raiding experience.
Your first shot in is an epic failure. So you retry. And fail again. And retry. And make some headway. And again and again until you make it to the raid boss and win. From initial start to eventual win we're talking a month at least. You need a strategy for each and every mob you fight. One add is a wipe. The trash mobs are so hard they would be WoW mini-bosses.
The point? When you finally get through this madness and kill the end boss you really have a feeling of accomplishment.
In all honesty though, things are probably different now. With the growing popularity of the internet, I'm sure raiding in EQ has become much easier. Back in our (EQ1 vets) day, we didn't have strategy guides, lorebooks, in-game maps or hundreds of fanboi websites discussing strategy. We had pen and paper and pencil crayons to draw maps and Alahkahazam for loot but other than that it was all trial and error. I doubt you can get into a single group in WoW where someone doesn't know every minute detail about every encounter in a dungeon because the knowledge is so common.
I bitch because I miss the old-school ghetto feel to raiding that EQ1 spoiled me on. Games nowadays give you too many tools to work with taking all the additional fun out of the game.
Originally posted by Retrad However, they have a nicely polished easy-mode game for casual players, where everyone is an equal and you're only "hardcore" if you raid a lot, which is seriously lame that the only thing to set apart the elite from the scrubs is how many hours you've wasted in that game. And before you go on, yes I know all MMOs the top players have played more then the lesser, but there was a visible difference whether it was in gear or levels. Someone who has been playing only for a year can be as high in levels and as geared out as someone who has been playing since launch and to me that is just pathetic and retarded.
Really now? I've always found it rather encouraging to play the game because of the reason that the veterans do not dominate the new players.
And someone is going to shoot me for this one but...just like EVE. The Veterans will always be the more powerful. The newbies won't ever work up to the same level as them.
And imo, that's very very discouraging to play.
But again, that's just me. I find entertainment in challenging other players of the same level. And when you're actually victorious? It feels that much better.
Rather than being overly powerful and just curb stomping on the newbies - it can be fun for a short bit, but yeah...
Hell, I know how it felt to be the noob in EQ. I started playing when Luclin was released. However, I worked my way up the ladder and eventually I was at the top. I wasn't at the VERY top for some time, but when I finally got to PoT, I knew I had made it in the game and accomplished something that many people hadn't, and would never accomplish, not because it wasn't possible, but because they didn't have the skill or effort that it takes.
WoW just hands everything to its players, and that's a damn shame. But I understand they are catering more to the casual player, hell if they weren't, they wouldn't have 10mil + subs.
I just hate it when people try to make WoW out to be some extremely awesome, fantastically thought up idea, when it's nothing more than a giant single player that guides you by the hand. There is no real challenge to the game and if you think so then you are not a true MMO Vet.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP. SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
Thats why WoW got better Raid Endgame then EQ. I mean seriously pointing out a gamebreaking bug and state at the same time that EQ got a better Raidgame is a failure.
Gamebreaking? Hell no, boy. You miss the grand picture. If you think it's game-breaking then WoW must be your first raiding experience.
Your first shot in is an epic failure. So you retry. And fail again. And retry. And make some headway. And again and again until you make it to the raid boss and win. From initial start to eventual win we're talking a month at least. You need a strategy for each and every mob you fight. One add is a wipe. The trash mobs are so hard they would be WoW mini-bosses.
The point? When you finally get through this madness and kill the end boss you really have a feeling of accomplishment.
In all honesty though, things are probably different now. With the growing popularity of the internet, I'm sure raiding in EQ has become much easier. Back in our (EQ1 vets) day, we didn't have strategy guides, lorebooks, in-game maps or hundreds of fanboi websites discussing strategy. We had pen and paper and pencil crayons to draw maps and Alahkahazam for loot but other than that it was all trial and error. I doubt you can get into a single group in WoW where someone doesn't know every minute detail about every encounter in a dungeon because the knowledge is so common.
I bitch because I miss the old-school ghetto feel to raiding that EQ1 spoiled me on. Games nowadays give you too many tools to work with taking all the additional fun out of the game.
Oh ok, so losing a corpse a FOREVER ain't gamebreaking? Don't even try to argue with me in that point, in my eyes its gamebreaking.
And sorry i don't play WoW, i just took it since you already talked about it and if i compare your arguments with the one you qouted i would vote vor WoW anytime.
And that is your opinion as well. I'm betting any EQ1 vets could definitely argue that EQ1 currently has (and probably always will have) the best end-game raiding ever. You talk accomplishment? You've never been in the first wave zoning into the Plane of Fear when the baddies are grouped up en-mass at the portal to wipe you out instantly forcing you into an hours-long corpse recovery with your guild. I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment. I can see a feeling of accomplishment in SWP. I would equate it to the feeling of accomplishment for hitting level 70. A quick hurrah for 'beating' it and then lather, rinse and repeat all over again. With WoW, once you know the strategy, you are invincible.
Sorry. I've never played EQ or EQ2 but what kind of accomplishment is being killed only to corpse run for hours? I, for one, wouldn't play that kind of game.
Again, I completely agree with Bronks.
Of course you wouldn't play that kind of game, and don't take offense to this, but I wouldn't want your kind of player type in that kind of game. People like you would just cry and would have turned that game into...well....WoW.
You are the player type that WoW caters to. The casual player who needs to be guided and be spoonfed at each step of the way. You don't want anything too difficult that would make you have to work or be challenging.
The fact is that not everyone was meant to be at the top in EQ. The fact remains that leveling took time, knowledge of the game world, and knowledge of your class to level and it took quite a while to get to the max level, with saying that....there were few people who had 2+ max leveled characters. Why? Because it took a hell of a long time to level, but also you felt an accomplishment to reach the max level and also....EQ HAD END GAME CONTENT THAT WASNT REDUNDANT AND BORING!
People can talk shit about SOE and what they did to SWG, but EQ is the best MMO to date.
At end game you had numerous reasons to log on and they weren't just to farm purps or honor.
And that is your opinion as well. I'm betting any EQ1 vets could definitely argue that EQ1 currently has (and probably always will have) the best end-game raiding ever. You talk accomplishment? You've never been in the first wave zoning into the Plane of Fear when the baddies are grouped up en-mass at the portal to wipe you out instantly forcing you into an hours-long corpse recovery with your guild. I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment. I can see a feeling of accomplishment in SWP. I would equate it to the feeling of accomplishment for hitting level 70. A quick hurrah for 'beating' it and then lather, rinse and repeat all over again. With WoW, once you know the strategy, you are invincible.
Sorry. I've never played EQ or EQ2 but what kind of accomplishment is being killed only to corpse run for hours? I, for one, wouldn't play that kind of game.
Again, I completely agree with Bronks.
Of course you wouldn't play that kind of game, and don't take offense to this, but I wouldn't want your kind of player type in that kind of game. People like you would just cry and would have turned that game into...well....WoW.
You are the player type that WoW caters to. The casual player who needs to be guided and be spoonfed at each step of the way. You don't want anything too difficult that would make you have to work or be challenging.
The fact is that not everyone was meant to be at the top in EQ. The fact remains that leveling took time, knowledge of the game world, and knowledge of your class to level and it took quite a while to get to the max level, with saying that....there were few people who had 2+ max leveled characters. Why? Because it took a hell of a long time to level, but also you felt an accomplishment to reach the max level and also....EQ HAD END GAME CONTENT THAT WASNT REDUNDANT AND BORING!
People can talk shit about SOE and what they did to SWG, but EQ is the best MMO to date.
At end game you had numerous reasons to log on and they weren't just to farm purps or honor.
Why am I pissed at blizzard? Well it wasn't always this way,I used to be a big fan of Blizzard. I loved blizzards older games from Lost vikings to Warcraft 3. These games were so polished and were tons of fun. These games aren't my problem, blizzard is my problem and the way they treat their customers. I played Wow and i think its a decent game. It's polished, fun and has great potential. I say potential cause blizzard is just happily collecting money and not giving anything back. Almost four years and all blizzard has given us is one Expansion and a handful of raids. They have 10 million subs and they dont even care to finish the Azeroth map. They have given us the same four battlegrounds to run over and over. They tossed us this worthless arena feature which is basically a glorified duel. When The burning crusade released Blizz spoke of portal worlds we would be able to access. they give us flying mounts but nothing to explore with them. most of the content they released after TBC was stuff they planned to include in the Xpac..... wtf! All that money and they give us crap. Look at games like LotRO and Eve Online, lotro has been out a year and has given more content than wow has in the last four years. Eve gives all its expansions away for free. Hell even EQ2 has released more content than WoW. I'm tired of it, no new classes in four years, unfinished zones, broken promises and glorified duels.... no thanks.
I know other players feel the way I do but still play cause its the "Cool thing to do" or friends still play the game. ./rant off
Hey don't forget all that rep crap they keep adding with new ways to gind like dailiy boring rehashing of the same ole' Daily quests. I quit and went back to SWG and EQ2 and right now there is no dought in my mind that SWG even with its NGE is better than WoW. I really wonder why EQ2 is not the 10 million sub game that it should be right now. I suppose thats what SOE gets for treating its customers worse than WoW. Only SOE can finally make a competitor to WoW and never see it gain the WoW subs because they have done their customers so wrong in the past they cannot seem to get past all the backlash lol.
Why am I pissed at blizzard? Well it wasn't always this way,I used to be a big fan of Blizzard. I loved blizzards older games from Lost vikings to Warcraft 3. These games were so polished and were tons of fun. These games aren't my problem, blizzard is my problem and the way they treat their customers. I played Wow and i think its a decent game. It's polished, fun and has great potential. I say potential cause blizzard is just happily collecting money and not giving anything back. Almost four years and all blizzard has given us is one Expansion and a handful of raids. They have 10 million subs and they dont even care to finish the Azeroth map. They have given us the same four battlegrounds to run over and over. They tossed us this worthless arena feature which is basically a glorified duel. When The burning crusade released Blizz spoke of portal worlds we would be able to access. they give us flying mounts but nothing to explore with them. most of the content they released after TBC was stuff they planned to include in the Xpac..... wtf! All that money and they give us crap. Look at games like LotRO and Eve Online, lotro has been out a year and has given more content than wow has in the last four years. Eve gives all its expansions away for free. Hell even EQ2 has released more content than WoW. I'm tired of it, no new classes in four years, unfinished zones, broken promises and glorified duels.... no thanks.
I know other players feel the way I do but still play cause its the "Cool thing to do" or friends still play the game. ./rant off
Oh ok, so losing a corpse a FOREVER ain't gamebreaking? Don't even try to argue with me in that point, in my eyes its gamebreaking.
And sorry i don't play WoW, i just took it since you already talked about it and if i compare your arguments with the one you qouted i would vote vor WoW anytime.
That is why most people believe WoW to be the greatest... because it caters to everyone. There is something in that game that my 60 year old mother can enjoy and my 7 year old son at the same time.
I however, am more hardcore than that. I figure any game my son can play is a game that I don't want to play. Seriously, I watched my son take over for my wife mid-way through Shattered Halls on Heroic before as a warrior. He did fine and the group did fine on the whole. I was amazed that the skill required to tank on heroic was so simple that my son could do so. You definitely could not say the same thing about a tank in EQ... or any class in EQ for that matter.
10 million people can like their WoW. I don't hate the game. I just find it's play style below my skill level.
Incidentally, there have been games released where you loose everything sometimes when you die. Old-school PVP UO would have your entire corpse looted when you got PKed. So you'd have a corpse, sure, but there was nothing on it to loo. If the honorable PKers didn't raze your corpse then wandering monsters would. Could you imagine if mobs in WoW could loot a trophy from your corpse when you died? THE HORROR....
Oh ok, so losing a corpse a FOREVER ain't gamebreaking? Don't even try to argue with me in that point, in my eyes its gamebreaking.
And sorry i don't play WoW, i just took it since you already talked about it and if i compare your arguments with the one you qouted i would vote vor WoW anytime.
That is why most people believe WoW to be the greatest... because it caters to everyone. There is something in that game that my 60 year old mother can enjoy and my 7 year old son at the same time.
I however, am more hardcore than that. I figure any game my son can play is a game that I don't want to play. Seriously, I watched my son take over for my wife mid-way through Shattered Halls on Heroic before as a warrior. He did fine and the group did fine on the whole. I was amazed that the skill required to tank on heroic was so simple that my son could do so. You definitely could not say the same thing about a tank in EQ... or any class in EQ for that matter.
10 million people can like their WoW. I don't hate the game. I just find it's play style below my skill level.
Incidentally, there have been games released where you loose everything sometimes when you die. Old-school PVP UO would have your entire corpse looted when you got PKed. So you'd have a corpse, sure, but there was nothing on it to loo. If the honorable PKers didn't raze your corpse then wandering monsters would. Could you imagine if mobs in WoW could loot a trophy from your corpse when you died? THE HORROR....
More power to you then, go to your game and shout how L33t you are and pound your chest in the meantime.
Comments
With 10M subs, Blizzard should be kicking out free content either weekly or monthly.
I am talking HUGE content additions on a regular basis.
There is no excuse for it...they are making money hand over fist. Giving a little back for the devs/writers/artists to produce content wouldnt break their bank.
Simply a matter of greed...and folks cried when SOE was milking EQ with their 400k subs...HA.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I have heard tell that lessons were learned from TBC and this was one of them. Expect things to be a bit different when WotLK comes out.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I have heard tell that lessons were learned from TBC and this was one of them. Expect things to be a bit different when WotLK comes out.
Really? How so? I can only see the new Shattrath being the floating city of Dalaran. The Shattrath now will be and will remain empty just like Silvermoon City.
Blizzard says they're releasing content patches, but from the point of view of a player that did not have the patience to reach level 30, there's nothing new to the game to make it more appealing to me.
Most of it is small tweaks that don't bother us much. Big deal that the trees got changed and the level 41 skill is different. I never got to try the first one!
I wanted to try battlegrounds, but all I had was the cruddy, horribly imbalanced CTF (level 30 vs level 25 = pwned, which isn't very fun).
Yeah...I give up.
Hell i dont mind paying for Expansions, problem is blizzard hasnt really released any!!! LOL
well except Tbc in four years
Eve has released What 5-6 Xpacs in 5 years.
Its not quantity, but quality that matters. The last free update, that included a new zone and two new dungeons, features the best PvE raiding content in the world. I would like to see EVE top that. Wait, it can't since EVE is a point-and-click 'PvP' game.
All the crap that blizzard released was suppost to be in the Xpac on release.....
Dude that "new zone" is small as hell and the instance is like 30 minutes long. give me a break.
dude WoW can't touch eve in complexity and quality. More subs doesnt equal a better game.
Eve may be point and click but the combat is sure as hell more tactical and complex than Wow's.
Wow is basically a MMO with FPS controls were the ADD kids spin avatars around like tops and exploit Line of sight thats not combat.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP.
SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I've cleared SWP, and I didn't feel any sort of real accomplishment, because now more and more guilds are clearing it. That is the problem with this game, there is no sense of accomplishment because in the end, you are no better than anyone once they get the gear they need.
Everyone can be the top level, have the best gears, and clear the hardest instances in not that much time apart from the people who do it first.
The only real sense of accomplishment I ever felt was in EQ. Finally getting to PoT was truly an experience that not many people have ever experienced and still won't till this day. Not everyone was at the top level and when you go there, it was an accomplishment because it took actual work and you knowing the game environment and how to you play your class. There were no quests, or only 3 buttons you had to smash over and over and over again to get to max level in a month.
WoW is a joke and Blizzard isn't making it what it could possibly be.
However, they have a nicely polished easy-mode game for casual players, where everyone is an equal and you're only "hardcore" if you raid a lot, which is seriously lame that the only thing to set apart the elite from the scrubs is how many hours you've wasted in that game. And before you go on, yes I know all MMOs the top players have played more then the lesser, but there was a visible difference whether it was in gear or levels. Someone who has been playing only for a year can be as high in levels and as geared out as someone who has been playing since launch and to me that is just pathetic and retarded.
Hell i dont mind paying for Expansions, problem is blizzard hasnt really released any!!! LOL
well except Tbc in four years
Eve has released What 5-6 Xpacs in 5 years.
Its not quantity, but quality that matters. The last free update, that included a new zone and two new dungeons, features the best PvE raiding content in the world. I would like to see EVE top that. Wait, it can't since EVE is a point-and-click 'PvP' game.
All the crap that blizzard released was suppost to be in the Xpac on release.....
Dude that "new zone" is small as hell and the instance is like 30 minutes long. give me a break.
dude WoW can't touch eve in complexity and quality. More subs doesnt equal a better game.
Eve may be point and click but the combat is sure as hell more tactical and complex than Wow's.
Wow is basically a MMO with FPS controls were the ADD kids spin avatars around like tops and exploit Line of sight thats not combat.
Well that is your opinion. Having cleared the place, in my opinion Sunwell Plateau is still the best end-game raiding content in any game I have played. Mind you, I am currently playing EQ 2 and have played EVE for over a year and these two games have nothing like SWP.
SWP is hard, extremely well tuned and unforgiving. The sense of accomplishment in defeating the harder encounters there is not comparable to anything in any other MMO I've played.
Yet, I hated the BT farming prior to SWP and TBC raiding in general. SWP is truly the crown jewel of the TBC raid instances.
I've cleared SWP, and I didn't feel any sort of real accomplishment, because now more and more guilds are clearing it. That is the problem with this game, there is no sense of accomplishment because in the end, you are no better than anyone once they get the gear they need.
I disagree with some of this because there is a great deal of accomplishment when someone in season 2 pvp gear takes out someone in season 3 pvp gear, so the gap between gear ability and skill ability really isn't as wide as you make it out to seem to be. The game involves skill too.
Everyone can be the top level, have the best gears, and clear the hardest instances in not that much time apart from the people who do it first.
That is why the game is so good, because it does not discriminate against certain players.
The only real sense of accomplishment I ever felt was in EQ. Finally getting to PoT was truly an experience that not many people have ever experienced and still won't till this day. Not everyone was at the top level and when you go there, it was an accomplishment because it took actual work and you knowing the game environment and how to you play your class. There were no quests, or only 3 buttons you had to smash over and over and over again to get to max level in a month.
WoW is a joke and Blizzard isn't making it what it could possibly be.
However, they have a nicely polished easy-mode game for casual players, where everyone is an equal and you're only "hardcore" if you raid a lot, which is seriously lame that the only thing to set apart the elite from the scrubs is how many hours you've wasted in that game. And before you go on, yes I know all MMOs the top players have played more then the lesser, but there was a visible difference whether it was in gear or levels. Someone who has been playing only for a year can be as high in levels and as geared out as someone who has been playing since launch and to me that is just pathetic and retarded.
Really now? I've always found it rather encouraging to play the game because of the reason that the veterans do not dominate the new players.
And someone is going to shoot me for this one but...just like EVE. The Veterans will always be the more powerful. The newbies won't ever work up to the same level as them.
And imo, that's very very discouraging to play.
But again, that's just me. I find entertainment in challenging other players of the same level. And when you're actually victorious? It feels that much better.
Rather than being overly powerful and just curb stomping on the newbies - it can be fun for a short bit, but yeah...
That is why I cancelled long ago. Blizzard is stuffing their pockets, and just sitting on their laurels. This game should blow away any game ever made, but it doesn't. The level grind is almost the exact same as it was in '04. The BGs are the exact same, since day one. There is nothing new, nothing mind-blowing about WoW. 150 million dollars a month in revenue, and they update less than Asherons Call and its 10,000 subsribers.
Well I'm mad at Blizzard because of their false and misleading advertising.
How can they dare say 10 million players when I quit? Should they not be forced to say 9.999 million players?
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And that is your opinion as well. I'm betting any EQ1 vets could definitely argue that EQ1 currently has (and probably always will have) the best end-game raiding ever.
You talk accomplishment? You've never been in the first wave zoning into the Plane of Fear when the baddies are grouped up en-mass at the portal to wipe you out instantly forcing you into an hours-long corpse recovery with your guild.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
I can see a feeling of accomplishment in SWP. I would equate it to the feeling of accomplishment for hitting level 70. A quick hurrah for 'beating' it and then lather, rinse and repeat all over again.
With WoW, once you know the strategy, you are invincible.
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Sorry. I've never played EQ or EQ2 but what kind of accomplishment is being killed only to corpse run for hours? I, for one, wouldn't play that kind of game.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
Thats why WoW got better Raid Endgame then EQ. I mean seriously pointing out a gamebreaking bug and state at the same time that EQ got a better Raidgame is a failure.
WoW has something going for it that this "conversation" sure doesn't: it's fun.
I don't get where the problem is. Play it or don't. A lot of the complaining seems to come from people who really care about their pretend armor on their pretend people in a pretend world a teeeeeensy bit too much.
For myself, as a non-video-game writer/musician/designer, I find WoW to have charm and creativity that is utterly lacking in other mmos I have tried. There is a a real sense of atmosphere, accomplished with very simple elements of sound and color. This is so despite the much maligned "lack of realism," a comical complaint when levelled against a video game, but also one which shows ignorance of basic issues in computer art. It is well-known in the CGI world that the closer models get to recognizable equivalents in the real world, the harder it becomes to make them convincingly expressive. Blizzard was very intelligent in their choice of design elements, and in the degree to which things attempt to emulate reality, and it has worked to their advantage.
For comparison's sake, fight a couple things in WoW... an ogre and a wolf, for example. Then go fight the comparable mobs in Lotro. The backgrounds are unquestionably beautiful in Lotro, the zones get the feel of the IP just right. But the mobs don't feel like they are really responding to your presence at all, they are obviously just going through an animation routine triggered by your proximity. There's an awkwardness of motion, but more critically than that a lack of personality and emotion in the animations. Go back to Wow again, and watch that wolf charge at you. Watch the ogre get upset and come after you. It feels "real," or better yet, it feels "right."
It's an amazing piece of design through and through, and it only becomes a problem to complain about if your obsession is with gear and levelling and raids. Otherwise it is fun for unreasonably long periods of time, in a number of ways. Gosh, you could even notice the "rp" in mmorpg, and try some of it, either with other players or in your own head. Or you can play with the potential of different class/race/talent tree combinations. Or you can get into the crafting part of it, which hangs together astonishingly well, it's a market you can actually work much like a real one, in some ways the most "realistic" aspect of the game.
Or just keep hating it... though some of the anger on here causes one to question whether it's really Blizzard people are angry at.
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I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
Thats why WoW got better Raid Endgame then EQ. I mean seriously pointing out a gamebreaking bug and state at the same time that EQ got a better Raidgame is a failure.
Gamebreaking? Hell no, boy. You miss the grand picture. If you think it's game-breaking then WoW must be your first raiding experience.
Your first shot in is an epic failure. So you retry. And fail again. And retry. And make some headway. And again and again until you make it to the raid boss and win. From initial start to eventual win we're talking a month at least. You need a strategy for each and every mob you fight. One add is a wipe. The trash mobs are so hard they would be WoW mini-bosses.
The point? When you finally get through this madness and kill the end boss you really have a feeling of accomplishment.
In all honesty though, things are probably different now. With the growing popularity of the internet, I'm sure raiding in EQ has become much easier. Back in our (EQ1 vets) day, we didn't have strategy guides, lorebooks, in-game maps or hundreds of fanboi websites discussing strategy. We had pen and paper and pencil crayons to draw maps and Alahkahazam for loot but other than that it was all trial and error. I doubt you can get into a single group in WoW where someone doesn't know every minute detail about every encounter in a dungeon because the knowledge is so common.
I bitch because I miss the old-school ghetto feel to raiding that EQ1 spoiled me on. Games nowadays give you too many tools to work with taking all the additional fun out of the game.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
Really now? I've always found it rather encouraging to play the game because of the reason that the veterans do not dominate the new players.
And someone is going to shoot me for this one but...just like EVE. The Veterans will always be the more powerful. The newbies won't ever work up to the same level as them.
And imo, that's very very discouraging to play.
But again, that's just me. I find entertainment in challenging other players of the same level. And when you're actually victorious? It feels that much better.
Rather than being overly powerful and just curb stomping on the newbies - it can be fun for a short bit, but yeah...
Hell, I know how it felt to be the noob in EQ. I started playing when Luclin was released. However, I worked my way up the ladder and eventually I was at the top. I wasn't at the VERY top for some time, but when I finally got to PoT, I knew I had made it in the game and accomplished something that many people hadn't, and would never accomplish, not because it wasn't possible, but because they didn't have the skill or effort that it takes.
WoW just hands everything to its players, and that's a damn shame. But I understand they are catering more to the casual player, hell if they weren't, they wouldn't have 10mil + subs.
I just hate it when people try to make WoW out to be some extremely awesome, fantastically thought up idea, when it's nothing more than a giant single player that guides you by the hand. There is no real challenge to the game and if you think so then you are not a true MMO Vet.
I can also tell you never raided Veeshan's Peak in the days when it was a widely accepted fact that corpse runs were not only impossible, but that you would probably lose your corpse FOREVER. Recovering from this raid was a feeling of accomplishment.
Thats why WoW got better Raid Endgame then EQ. I mean seriously pointing out a gamebreaking bug and state at the same time that EQ got a better Raidgame is a failure.
Gamebreaking? Hell no, boy. You miss the grand picture. If you think it's game-breaking then WoW must be your first raiding experience.
Your first shot in is an epic failure. So you retry. And fail again. And retry. And make some headway. And again and again until you make it to the raid boss and win. From initial start to eventual win we're talking a month at least. You need a strategy for each and every mob you fight. One add is a wipe. The trash mobs are so hard they would be WoW mini-bosses.
The point? When you finally get through this madness and kill the end boss you really have a feeling of accomplishment.
In all honesty though, things are probably different now. With the growing popularity of the internet, I'm sure raiding in EQ has become much easier. Back in our (EQ1 vets) day, we didn't have strategy guides, lorebooks, in-game maps or hundreds of fanboi websites discussing strategy. We had pen and paper and pencil crayons to draw maps and Alahkahazam for loot but other than that it was all trial and error. I doubt you can get into a single group in WoW where someone doesn't know every minute detail about every encounter in a dungeon because the knowledge is so common.
I bitch because I miss the old-school ghetto feel to raiding that EQ1 spoiled me on. Games nowadays give you too many tools to work with taking all the additional fun out of the game.
QFT
Oh ok, so losing a corpse a FOREVER ain't gamebreaking? Don't even try to argue with me in that point, in my eyes its gamebreaking.
And sorry i don't play WoW, i just took it since you already talked about it and if i compare your arguments with the one you qouted i would vote vor WoW anytime.
Sorry. I've never played EQ or EQ2 but what kind of accomplishment is being killed only to corpse run for hours? I, for one, wouldn't play that kind of game.
Again, I completely agree with Bronks.
Of course you wouldn't play that kind of game, and don't take offense to this, but I wouldn't want your kind of player type in that kind of game. People like you would just cry and would have turned that game into...well....WoW.
You are the player type that WoW caters to. The casual player who needs to be guided and be spoonfed at each step of the way. You don't want anything too difficult that would make you have to work or be challenging.
The fact is that not everyone was meant to be at the top in EQ. The fact remains that leveling took time, knowledge of the game world, and knowledge of your class to level and it took quite a while to get to the max level, with saying that....there were few people who had 2+ max leveled characters. Why? Because it took a hell of a long time to level, but also you felt an accomplishment to reach the max level and also....EQ HAD END GAME CONTENT THAT WASNT REDUNDANT AND BORING!
People can talk shit about SOE and what they did to SWG, but EQ is the best MMO to date.
At end game you had numerous reasons to log on and they weren't just to farm purps or honor.
Sorry. I've never played EQ or EQ2 but what kind of accomplishment is being killed only to corpse run for hours? I, for one, wouldn't play that kind of game.
Again, I completely agree with Bronks.
Of course you wouldn't play that kind of game, and don't take offense to this, but I wouldn't want your kind of player type in that kind of game. People like you would just cry and would have turned that game into...well....WoW.
You are the player type that WoW caters to. The casual player who needs to be guided and be spoonfed at each step of the way. You don't want anything too difficult that would make you have to work or be challenging.
The fact is that not everyone was meant to be at the top in EQ. The fact remains that leveling took time, knowledge of the game world, and knowledge of your class to level and it took quite a while to get to the max level, with saying that....there were few people who had 2+ max leveled characters. Why? Because it took a hell of a long time to level, but also you felt an accomplishment to reach the max level and also....EQ HAD END GAME CONTENT THAT WASNT REDUNDANT AND BORING!
People can talk shit about SOE and what they did to SWG, but EQ is the best MMO to date.
At end game you had numerous reasons to log on and they weren't just to farm purps or honor.
QFT
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Hey don't forget all that rep crap they keep adding with new ways to gind like dailiy boring rehashing of the same ole' Daily quests. I quit and went back to SWG and EQ2 and right now there is no dought in my mind that SWG even with its NGE is better than WoW. I really wonder why EQ2 is not the 10 million sub game that it should be right now. I suppose thats what SOE gets for treating its customers worse than WoW. Only SOE can finally make a competitor to WoW and never see it gain the WoW subs because they have done their customers so wrong in the past they cannot seem to get past all the backlash lol.
And you kept playing for FOUR YEARS!!!!!!!!
Blizzard replies: "Um, Ching!"
That is why most people believe WoW to be the greatest... because it caters to everyone. There is something in that game that my 60 year old mother can enjoy and my 7 year old son at the same time.
I however, am more hardcore than that. I figure any game my son can play is a game that I don't want to play. Seriously, I watched my son take over for my wife mid-way through Shattered Halls on Heroic before as a warrior. He did fine and the group did fine on the whole. I was amazed that the skill required to tank on heroic was so simple that my son could do so. You definitely could not say the same thing about a tank in EQ... or any class in EQ for that matter.
10 million people can like their WoW. I don't hate the game. I just find it's play style below my skill level.
Incidentally, there have been games released where you loose everything sometimes when you die. Old-school PVP UO would have your entire corpse looted when you got PKed. So you'd have a corpse, sure, but there was nothing on it to loo. If the honorable PKers didn't raze your corpse then wandering monsters would. Could you imagine if mobs in WoW could loot a trophy from your corpse when you died? THE HORROR....
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
That is why most people believe WoW to be the greatest... because it caters to everyone. There is something in that game that my 60 year old mother can enjoy and my 7 year old son at the same time.
I however, am more hardcore than that. I figure any game my son can play is a game that I don't want to play. Seriously, I watched my son take over for my wife mid-way through Shattered Halls on Heroic before as a warrior. He did fine and the group did fine on the whole. I was amazed that the skill required to tank on heroic was so simple that my son could do so. You definitely could not say the same thing about a tank in EQ... or any class in EQ for that matter.
10 million people can like their WoW. I don't hate the game. I just find it's play style below my skill level.
Incidentally, there have been games released where you loose everything sometimes when you die. Old-school PVP UO would have your entire corpse looted when you got PKed. So you'd have a corpse, sure, but there was nothing on it to loo. If the honorable PKers didn't raze your corpse then wandering monsters would. Could you imagine if mobs in WoW could loot a trophy from your corpse when you died? THE HORROR....
More power to you then, go to your game and shout how L33t you are and pound your chest in the meantime.