I would rather the game be fixed than have the expansions.
Also I remember some people talking about a massive change in beta before release but I only got to play beta a few times because I was on 56k and too me like 3 weeks to download the game lol. Then when I got it the game wouldn't work on my Geforce 4 very well Like 5 FPS so I had to upgrade and when I did the game still ran like crap lol.
I have a hard time believing that you were allowed to play Beta with those cpu specs and IP issues. Maybe you were, but I would be surprised.
Back then Geforce 4 is what most people had..........
---------------------------------------- Talking about SWG much?
Here's what was posted in the pub of a article about SWG back in 2005......
This type of business ethic continues at SOE because of their CEO, John Smedley. Little does the public know, that Star Wars Galaxies was scrapped in 2002 and redeveloped in 14 months from the ground up. In a meeting, they asked how they could get away with releasing such an unfinished product. John Smedley stated that people will buy it because it has a Star Wars name on it - and then laughed as they said they would complete the retail product (which consumers have already paid $49.99 for) with approximately 2 years of subscription revenue.
---------------------------------------- Talking about SWG much?
The current dev team is not the one who "lied" to you, in fact many of them that did "lie" to you are hard at work on the Bioware game right now. The current dev team has the game very polished, it's fun to play and the amount of content is so far superior to any we had in the pre-cu time period. At this point with the release of GU5 which makes EVERY SINGLE weapon better if crafted by a player over any loot drop, the vets in my opinion have this to complain about: 1. The UI Why you all have such a hard time with point and click and watching a toolbar for a cooldown timer over stacking 20+ attacks in a combat log is beyond me. 2. Collision, need I mention that the pre-cu game did not have it and you ALL LOVED IT. 3. Loss of the 32 professions to 9 "iconic" professions.
Man.. *sighs and rubs eyes* How many times must it be pointed out? It doesn't matter what devs lied to who.. they may have done it to keep thier jobs.. what DOES matter is the man behind making them lie is still in charge... and therefore.. the game is still.. one... big... lie.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
The pre-cu game never had collision and people were fine with it, why is it such a big deal to some people now? The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006, is because the programs implemented it and then art discovered that collision for objects like walls was only ever designed for knee-level. Raph Koster and his design team 8-9 years ago never designed the game with the ability to jump, so that's why the jetpack still bumps into rocks on the ground, because your collision box is just extended to the ground invisibly. The team found that when they implemented jumping, you could get stuck inside an object because you "jumped" over the knee-level collision but couldn't get back out.
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING "
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
The pre-cu game never had collision and people were fine with it, why is it such a big deal to some people now? The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006, is because the programs implemented it and then art discovered that collision for objects like walls was only ever designed for knee-level. Raph Koster and his design team 8-9 years ago never designed the game with the ability to jump, so that's why the jetpack still bumps into rocks on the ground, because your collision box is just extended to the ground invisibly. The team found that when they implemented jumping, you could get stuck inside an object because you "jumped" over the knee-level collision but couldn't get back out.
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING "
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
So when a dev says they are "looking into" adding a feature that equates to a "promise" of a feature to you? Now I see what you guys are saying, if any dev or SOE person says anything that means it damm well better be put into the game even if it turns out to be not possible/practical to do so. Gotcha.
The pre-cu game never had collision and people were fine with it, why is it such a big deal to some people now? The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006, is because the programs implemented it and then art discovered that collision for objects like walls was only ever designed for knee-level. Raph Koster and his design team 8-9 years ago never designed the game with the ability to jump, so that's why the jetpack still bumps into rocks on the ground, because your collision box is just extended to the ground invisibly. The team found that when they implemented jumping, you could get stuck inside an object because you "jumped" over the knee-level collision but couldn't get back out.
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING "
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
So when a dev says they are "looking into" adding a feature that equates to a "promise" of a feature to you? Now I see what you guys are saying, if any dev or SOE person says anything that means it damm well better be put into the game even if it turns out to be not possible/practical to do so. Gotcha.
Once again, you are intentionally missing the point. Yes, intentionally, because you know damn well what ArcAngel is trying to tell you, and it's obvious you're only doing it to get a rise out of someone. So congratulations on that. Jumping as a game mechanic would not have enhanced pre-NGE very much. Collision as a game mechanic would have enhanced pre-NGE, and they had been promising upgrades to that for a long time, but they took out some of it as people were getting griefed in houses by furniture placements. However, due to the "enhanced" gameplay of the NGE (hard to say that without laughing), jumping and better collision detection would mean much more to the FPS-style of combat that the NGE was supposed to deliver than the original RPG-style combat. You play the current game, you obviously know all of this, so consider the above explanation for anyone else who may care but may not know.
The pre-cu game never had collision and people were fine with it, why is it such a big deal to some people now? The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006, is because the programs implemented it and then art discovered that collision for objects like walls was only ever designed for knee-level. Raph Koster and his design team 8-9 years ago never designed the game with the ability to jump, so that's why the jetpack still bumps into rocks on the ground, because your collision box is just extended to the ground invisibly. The team found that when they implemented jumping, you could get stuck inside an object because you "jumped" over the knee-level collision but couldn't get back out.
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING "
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
So when a dev says they are "looking into" adding a feature that equates to a "promise" of a feature to you? Now I see what you guys are saying, if any dev or SOE person says anything that means it damm well better be put into the game even if it turns out to be not possible/practical to do so. Gotcha.
Once again, you are intentionally missing the point. Yes, intentionally, because you know damn well what ArcAngel is trying to tell you, and it's obvious you're only doing it to get a rise out of someone. So congratulations on that. Jumping as a game mechanic would not have enhanced pre-NGE very much. Collision as a game mechanic would have enhanced pre-NGE, and they had been promising upgrades to that for a long time, but they took out some of it as people were getting griefed in houses by furniture placements. However, due to the "enhanced" gameplay of the NGE (hard to say that without laughing), jumping and better collision detection would mean much more to the FPS-style of combat that the NGE was supposed to deliver than the original RPG-style combat. You play the current game, you obviously know all of this, so consider the above explanation for anyone else who may care but may not know.
I have to agree with my colleague here. I don't think you're really hearing what I'm saying. This was only one comment about the alleged upcoming collision detection system. More was said. Collision detection is very important for gameplay in first person shooters. The idea of the NGE was to turn a slower paced role-playing game into a fast-paced first person shooter. In order for that to be successful, functional collision detection is a must. Imagine playing Battlefront without collision detection. It would be simply ridiculous. (In fact, the NGE plays a lot like a broken version of this popular console game.) We were told to expect this in the quote I provided AND in other statements made by SOE. This wasn't some vague, "oh we'll look into it for you" message that we got from SOE. First person shooters require collision detection to be enjoyable, and we were told it was coming. If you deny that, I honestly think you're trying to mislead people, or perhaps you've been misled yourself. In fact, the dev that first mentioned collision then went on to say that it would take some time to implement, but when completed "it will really make the game a lot more actiony and fun - much more "Star Warsy" (tm).
What I'm also saying is that if they were going to change their game into a shooter, they should have first investigated the technical feasibility of collision detection. They should have ensured this was workable before making the complete game revamp, and before telling people that collision was coming.
They apparently did their homework AFTER completely revamping the game, and AFTER telling players what they could expect. They should have done all of this BEFORE they even considered such a complete revamp. They simply didn't do this, as we know that the NGE was a very rushed project.
Further, you seem to be overlooking the fact that our entire game was replaced in order to have a functional first person shooter. To justify a game change of that magnitude (if you can at all, which I doubt), I'm saying that the basic mechanics of the new version should at the very least actually work. In the case of the NGE, they don't work, and yes, this is a problem for some people.
Consider the options SOE had before them:
-change the game from role-play combat to first person shooter, or not, without consulting the current players;
-investigate the feasibility of collsion detection before revamping the entire game into an fps model, or investigate this after changing the entire game;
-investigate the feasiblity of collision detection before telling the players you plan to implement it, or investigate it after you make this kind of announcement;
If I look at all of these decision points, I'd say SOE chose poorly in each instance. If you're honest about it, I think you'd have a hard time saying they picked the right options.
P.S. From your own post: "The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006." You just told us all that collision detection was "promised." You seem to know very well what message players were given, and yet you then seem to try to say I was twisting the message somehow. I think people are intelligent enough to recognize what's going on here. Also, I think I've explained quite clearly why people were upset about this unfulfilled "promise", if you're wiling to listen.
Further, you seem to be overlooking the fact that our entire game was replaced in order to have a functional first person shooter. To justify a game change of that magnitude (if you can at all, which I doubt), I'm saying that the basic mechanics of the new version should at the very least actually work. In the case of the NGE, they don't work, and yes, this is a problem for some people. Consider the options SOE had before them: -change the game from role-play combat to first person shooter, or not, without consulting the current players; -investigate the feasibility of collsion detection before revamping the entire game into an fps model, or investigate this after changing the entire game; -investigate the feasiblity of collision detection before telling the players you plan to implement it, or investigate it after you make this kind of announcement; If I look at all of these decision points, I'd say SOE chose poorly in each instance. If you're honest about it, I think you'd have a hard time saying they picked the right options. P.S. From your own post: "The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006." You just told us all that collision detection was "promised." You seem to know very well what message players were given, and yet you then seem to try to say I was twisting the message somehow. I think people are intelligent enough to recognize what's going on here. Also, I think I've explained quite clearly why people were upset about this unfulfilled "promise", if you're wiling to listen.
Actually, the devs promised collision detection "within six months" in April/May 2005, in the immediate aftermath of the CU impact. The lack of C.D. wasn't really a big problem in the pre-CU days, but I recall that the changes in the CU made that absence much more obnoxious.
Further, you seem to be overlooking the fact that our entire game was replaced in order to have a functional first person shooter. To justify a game change of that magnitude (if you can at all, which I doubt), I'm saying that the basic mechanics of the new version should at the very least actually work. In the case of the NGE, they don't work, and yes, this is a problem for some people. Consider the options SOE had before them: -change the game from role-play combat to first person shooter, or not, without consulting the current players; -investigate the feasibility of collsion detection before revamping the entire game into an fps model, or investigate this after changing the entire game; -investigate the feasiblity of collision detection before telling the players you plan to implement it, or investigate it after you make this kind of announcement; If I look at all of these decision points, I'd say SOE chose poorly in each instance. If you're honest about it, I think you'd have a hard time saying they picked the right options. P.S. From your own post: "The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006." You just told us all that collision detection was "promised." You seem to know very well what message players were given, and yet you then seem to try to say I was twisting the message somehow. I think people are intelligent enough to recognize what's going on here. Also, I think I've explained quite clearly why people were upset about this unfulfilled "promise", if you're wiling to listen.
Actually, the devs promised collision detection "within six months" in April/May 2005, in the immediate aftermath of the CU impact. The lack of C.D. wasn't really a big problem in the pre-CU days, but I recall that the changes in the CU made that absence much more obnoxious.
The implication was very much "we know it doesn't play well now, but the combat system was intended to work with collision detection, and once that is in the game in six months, you'll see how great our combat system can be".
Here we are, nearly three years later, and we still haven't been able to experience this wonderful combat system as it was intended.
These asshats put this crap out KNOWING that there would never be collision detection and did it anyway and lied about it.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view.
From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game.
The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
Originally posted by Gutboy I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view. From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game. The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view. From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game. The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
The current combat system, even with the very poorly implemented target lock system, is nothing like the pre-CU combat system (or the CU combat system, which was a slightly modified version of the pre-CU system). You are either being intentionally dishonest, or you never actually played the game prior to the NGE.
I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view.
From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game.
The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view.
From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game.
The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
This is what him and all the defenders of SWG will never understand. They blatantly "sold" the NGE on the premise that these things would be added. The game was changed to a FPS hybrid where collision was and is needed. If they knew that it was so hard or not possible they shouldn't have done it or not advertised it at all. I don't consider anything a developer discusses as a "promise", but when you sell something on an idea such as collision detection or a capital ships video to keep people (basically your investors) you need to deliver.
Throughout the history of the game they constantly "sold" (i.e. carrot on a stick) new systems or enhancements they either knew would never make it into the game or opened their mouth too soon to realize it wouldn't work (such as the 1st combat revamp that was supposed to go in before the jedi revamp and JTL).
For months the answer to any question was that any problems will be fixed in the "Combat revamp" now they are doing the same thing with Hoth by not releasing any information, just the same old carrot to keep people paying until they get it done 4 months from now, and it will be way below what the paying customer is expecting.
I think the NGE was a good idea in that the old system did not work. But, they exhanged the old system with something that was basically an alpha product. The whole game is built around a foundation that does not work for what they tried with the hybrid fps and is one of the worst combat/game systems I have ever played.
Originally posted by Obee Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Gutboy I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view. From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game. The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying. I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field. I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
yeah I think it was dropped because of the third reason you mentioned -- no money. The game went belly up and they couldn't afford it.
It's sexier to believe they knew they were lying though, which is probably true as well. Or, more they said it, like they say everything, without really CARING if it's the truth or not. They simply do not value honesty or ethics over there at all, as evidenced by Brenlo's statement about how PROUD he was to work for such a BOLD company.
Originally posted by Gutboy I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view. From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game. The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying. I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field. I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
This is what him and all the defenders of SWG will never understand. They blatantly "sold" the NGE on the premise that these things would be added. The game was changed to a FPS hybrid where collision was and is needed. If they knew that it was so hard or not possible they shouldn't have done it or not advertised it at all. I don't consider anything a developer discusses as a "promise", but when you sell something on an idea such as collision detection or a capital ships video to keep people (basically your investors) you need to deliver. Throughout the history of the game they constantly "sold" (i.e. carrot on a stick) new systems or enhancements they either knew would never make it into the game or opened their mouth too soon to realize it wouldn't work (such as the 1st combat revamp that was supposed to go in before the jedi revamp and JTL). For months the answer to any question was that any problems will be fixed in the "Combat revamp" now they are doing the same thing with Hoth by not releasing any information, just the same old carrot to keep people paying until they get it done 4 months from now, and it will be way below what the paying customer is expecting. I think the NGE was a good idea in that the old system did not work. But, they exhanged the old system with something that was basically an alpha product. The whole game is built around a foundation that does not work for what they tried with the hybrid fps and is one of the worst combat/game systems I have ever played.
Well, the NGE was a terrible idea in that it didn't address what was really wrong with pre-CU, which was, the company managing the game.
The NGE as a solution was similar to the removal of one's arms to cure a headache.
I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view.
From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game.
The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
yeah I think it was dropped because of the third reason you mentioned -- no money. The game went belly up and they couldn't afford it.
It's sexier to believe they knew they were lying though, which is probably true as well. Or, more they said it, like they say everything, without really CARING if it's the truth or not. They simply do not value honesty or ethics over there at all, as evidenced by Brenlo's statement about how PROUD he was to work for such a BOLD company.
Well there's hundred's of files hidden in SWG of things that never came to be. I might not agree with you on paying for SWG/SOE but we basically diagnose the same problem, that they can't comprehend the word "polished".
Blizzard wins because they release a good GAME they don't release an idea. People will play a game as long as it works, but they can only put up with an idea as long as it becomes a reality.
Originally posted by Gravez Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Gutboy I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view. From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game. The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying. I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field. I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
yeah I think it was dropped because of the third reason you mentioned -- no money. The game went belly up and they couldn't afford it. It's sexier to believe they knew they were lying though, which is probably true as well. Or, more they said it, like they say everything, without really CARING if it's the truth or not. They simply do not value honesty or ethics over there at all, as evidenced by Brenlo's statement about how PROUD he was to work for such a BOLD company.
Well there's hundred's of files hidden in SWG of things that never came to be. I might not agree with you on paying for SWG/SOE but we basically diagnose the same problem, that they can't comprehend the word "polished". Blizzard wins because they release a good GAME they don't release an idea. People will play a game as long as it works, but they can only put up with an idea as long as it becomes a reality.
yeah, Blizzard doesn't even CALL what they do POLISHED. They call it building quality from the ground up. Completely different styles of management and development. TRULY BOLD. They dare to build something worth playing. Pretty cool concept.
I am a vet player from almost day 1 till when NGE first hit. I was disgusted at what they did to the game.
I recently returned with free vet month and am shocked I am resuscribing now. NGE has improved BIGTIME from when it first hit.
No my Jedi isn't a alpha class anymore. I think I am over this. Things are more player skill, equipment, and buff setup then one uber dot weapon, or one fotm templet.
As for the comment from a old master creature handler. They have introduced creature mastery again as a expertise profession you can mix into any main profession. It takes alot of your expertise points to be strong in it which really has a feel of the old time mastery. All your old pets are not useless anymore and are infact worth a fortune now.
Medics buff again, and the buffs are nice. Entertainers can custom buff you which really kicks ass.
The expertise in general makes Jedi feel alot more like the times of old in the power selections. Darkside reminds me of a powers based jedi as the lightside resembles more of a saber/defender templet.
You can however mix the expertise in to change things up (in all professions).
Many of my old time fellow Elders are returning. They have been joining the guild I have (iron-circle.net)
I am no NGE fanboi. This is just a honest opinion from a vet who was very angry at the loss of pre cu, then cu.
The dev team does seem much different then when NGE released.
As for the comment on Bioware having the devs that lied....This is a lie. They have THE ORIGINAL DESIGNER OF PRE CU. NOT the ones who changed it. They also have the designers of KOTOR. So STOP QQ'ing about the sky is falling as Bioware has always been a very solid company.
Also space still rocks. I have lots of fun with guildies up there. Multipassenger gunships are fun.
The new heroic instances are fun also. Many things to do endgame now. The community is still the best I've seen from any MMO. (atleast on my servers Gorath and Starsider)
I never thought I would resub, but I had so much fun in free vet month I am hooked.
Right and they don't need to apologize. If something is wrong they usually fix it within days, they don't wait years or months to address it. This is the huge fundamental difference between SOE and other game developers. They will never get it until people put their foot down and forget that it's "just" $15 a month. You are paying people to do a crappy job.
Originally posted by Gravez Right and they don't need to apologize. If something is wrong they usually fix it within days, they don't wait years or months to address it. This is the huge fundamental difference between SOE and other game developers. They will never get it until people put their foot down and forget that it's "just" $15 a month. You are paying people to do a crappy job.
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Originally posted by Shohadaku I am a vet player from almost day 1 till when NGE first hit. I was disgusted at what they did to the game. I recently returned with free vet month and am shocked I am resuscribing now. NGE has improved BIGTIME from when it first hit. No my Jedi isn't a alpha class anymore. I think I am over this. Things are more player skill, equipment, and buff setup then one uber dot weapon, or one fotm templet. As for the comment from a old master creature handler. They have introduced creature mastery again as a expertise profession you can mix into any main profession. It takes alot of your expertise points to be strong in it which really has a feel of the old time mastery. All your old pets are not useless anymore and are infact worth a fortune now. Medics buff again, and the buffs are nice. Entertainers can custom buff you which really kicks ass. The expertise in general makes Jedi feel alot more like the times of old in the power selections. Darkside reminds me of a powers based jedi as the lightside resembles more of a saber/defender templet. You can however mix the expertise in to change things up (in all professions). Many of my old time fellow Elders are returning. They have been joining the guild I have (iron-circle.net) I am no NGE fanboi. This is just a honest opinion from a vet who was very angry at the loss of pre cu, then cu. The dev team does seem much different then when NGE released. As for the comment on Bioware having the devs that lied....This is a lie. They have THE ORIGINAL DESIGNER OF PRE CU. NOT the ones who changed it. They also have the designers of KOTOR. So STOP QQ'ing about the sky is falling as Bioware has always been a very solid company. Also space still rocks. I have lots of fun with guildies up there. Multipassenger gunships are fun. The new heroic instances are fun also. Many things to do endgame now. The community is still the best I've seen from any MMO. (atleast on my servers Gorath and Starsider) I never thought I would resub, but I had so much fun in free vet month I am hooked.
I haven't noticed any ral difference. They still don't care if they erase players' effort for the sake of some change they wanna do. The same bugs that were in the game pre-CU are still here. They still have exactly the same attitude.
Right and they don't need to apologize. If something is wrong they usually fix it within days, they don't wait years or months to address it. This is the huge fundamental difference between SOE and other game developers. They will never get it until people put their foot down and forget that it's "just" $15 a month. You are paying people to do a crappy job.
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Exactally, this is my point. Maybe something needs to be done more public.
Originally posted by Gravez Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Gravez Right and they don't need to apologize. If something is wrong they usually fix it within days, they don't wait years or months to address it. This is the huge fundamental difference between SOE and other game developers. They will never get it until people put their foot down and forget that it's "just" $15 a month. You are paying people to do a crappy job.
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Exactally, this is my point. Maybe something needs to be done more public.
That is what we are doing here -- giving them the worst word-of-mouth in the industry. None of it will have an effect until Smedley is gone, however.
Right and they don't need to apologize. If something is wrong they usually fix it within days, they don't wait years or months to address it. This is the huge fundamental difference between SOE and other game developers. They will never get it until people put their foot down and forget that it's "just" $15 a month. You are paying people to do a crappy job.
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Exactally, this is my point. Maybe something needs to be done more public.
That is what we are doing here -- giving them the worst word-of-mouth in the industry. None of it will have an effect until Smedley is gone, however.
Well maybe a website where people who've been misled or lied to about MMOs is created. Kind of like a real estate scam where you invest money on false pretences of future development that never pan out. It would have to involve an intense scrutiny of the ULA etc, but basically a bait and switch that hasn't been tried to my knowledge against MMO companies.
Comments
I have a hard time believing that you were allowed to play Beta with those cpu specs and IP issues. Maybe you were, but I would be surprised.
Back then Geforce 4 is what most people had..........
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Talking about SWG much?
Here's what was posted in the pub of a article about SWG back in 2005......
This type of business ethic continues at SOE because of their CEO, John Smedley. Little does the public know, that Star Wars Galaxies was scrapped in 2002 and redeveloped in 14 months from the ground up. In a meeting, they asked how they could get away with releasing such an unfinished product. John Smedley stated that people will buy it because it has a Star Wars name on it - and then laughed as they said they would complete the retail product (which consumers have already paid $49.99 for) with approximately 2 years of subscription revenue.
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Talking about SWG much?
Man.. *sighs and rubs eyes* How many times must it be pointed out? It doesn't matter what devs lied to who.. they may have done it to keep thier jobs.. what DOES matter is the man behind making them lie is still in charge... and therefore.. the game is still.. one... big... lie.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING
"
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING
"
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
So when a dev says they are "looking into" adding a feature that equates to a "promise" of a feature to you? Now I see what you guys are saying, if any dev or SOE person says anything that means it damm well better be put into the game even if it turns out to be not possible/practical to do so. Gotcha.
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING
"
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
So when a dev says they are "looking into" adding a feature that equates to a "promise" of a feature to you? Now I see what you guys are saying, if any dev or SOE person says anything that means it damm well better be put into the game even if it turns out to be not possible/practical to do so. Gotcha.
Once again, you are intentionally missing the point. Yes, intentionally, because you know damn well what ArcAngel is trying to tell you, and it's obvious you're only doing it to get a rise out of someone. So congratulations on that. Jumping as a game mechanic would not have enhanced pre-NGE very much. Collision as a game mechanic would have enhanced pre-NGE, and they had been promising upgrades to that for a long time, but they took out some of it as people were getting griefed in houses by furniture placements. However, due to the "enhanced" gameplay of the NGE (hard to say that without laughing), jumping and better collision detection would mean much more to the FPS-style of combat that the NGE was supposed to deliver than the original RPG-style combat. You play the current game, you obviously know all of this, so consider the above explanation for anyone else who may care but may not know.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
You ask a straightforward question, so I'm going to try to give you a straightforward answer. SOE pushed a first person shooter on us that we didn't ask for. It also happened to delete most of what we enjoyed, and break much of what was left. The very day after they did all this, they made this promise to the players:
"SWG-TSlothrop -We are looking at upgrading the interactivity with the game world, including better collision, better Line Of Sight, and even REAL JUMPING
"
They told us that this new FPS NGE was going to be the cat's ass, and this was one of the things we all had to look forward to. So, they just screwed us all out of two years of progress, deleted most of our professions, broke or deleted parts of our new expansion, and then promised us this...and didn't deliver.
Does that make sense to you?
So when a dev says they are "looking into" adding a feature that equates to a "promise" of a feature to you? Now I see what you guys are saying, if any dev or SOE person says anything that means it damm well better be put into the game even if it turns out to be not possible/practical to do so. Gotcha.
Once again, you are intentionally missing the point. Yes, intentionally, because you know damn well what ArcAngel is trying to tell you, and it's obvious you're only doing it to get a rise out of someone. So congratulations on that. Jumping as a game mechanic would not have enhanced pre-NGE very much. Collision as a game mechanic would have enhanced pre-NGE, and they had been promising upgrades to that for a long time, but they took out some of it as people were getting griefed in houses by furniture placements. However, due to the "enhanced" gameplay of the NGE (hard to say that without laughing), jumping and better collision detection would mean much more to the FPS-style of combat that the NGE was supposed to deliver than the original RPG-style combat. You play the current game, you obviously know all of this, so consider the above explanation for anyone else who may care but may not know.
I have to agree with my colleague here. I don't think you're really hearing what I'm saying. This was only one comment about the alleged upcoming collision detection system. More was said. Collision detection is very important for gameplay in first person shooters. The idea of the NGE was to turn a slower paced role-playing game into a fast-paced first person shooter. In order for that to be successful, functional collision detection is a must. Imagine playing Battlefront without collision detection. It would be simply ridiculous. (In fact, the NGE plays a lot like a broken version of this popular console game.) We were told to expect this in the quote I provided AND in other statements made by SOE. This wasn't some vague, "oh we'll look into it for you" message that we got from SOE. First person shooters require collision detection to be enjoyable, and we were told it was coming. If you deny that, I honestly think you're trying to mislead people, or perhaps you've been misled yourself. In fact, the dev that first mentioned collision then went on to say that it would take some time to implement, but when completed "it will really make the game a lot more actiony and fun - much more "Star Warsy" (tm).
What I'm also saying is that if they were going to change their game into a shooter, they should have first investigated the technical feasibility of collision detection. They should have ensured this was workable before making the complete game revamp, and before telling people that collision was coming.
They apparently did their homework AFTER completely revamping the game, and AFTER telling players what they could expect. They should have done all of this BEFORE they even considered such a complete revamp. They simply didn't do this, as we know that the NGE was a very rushed project.
Further, you seem to be overlooking the fact that our entire game was replaced in order to have a functional first person shooter. To justify a game change of that magnitude (if you can at all, which I doubt), I'm saying that the basic mechanics of the new version should at the very least actually work. In the case of the NGE, they don't work, and yes, this is a problem for some people.
Consider the options SOE had before them:
-change the game from role-play combat to first person shooter, or not, without consulting the current players;
-investigate the feasibility of collsion detection before revamping the entire game into an fps model, or investigate this after changing the entire game;
-investigate the feasiblity of collision detection before telling the players you plan to implement it, or investigate it after you make this kind of announcement;
If I look at all of these decision points, I'd say SOE chose poorly in each instance. If you're honest about it, I think you'd have a hard time saying they picked the right options.
P.S. From your own post: "The reason why we don't have collision detection, as it was promised for November of 2006." You just told us all that collision detection was "promised." You seem to know very well what message players were given, and yet you then seem to try to say I was twisting the message somehow. I think people are intelligent enough to recognize what's going on here. Also, I think I've explained quite clearly why people were upset about this unfulfilled "promise", if you're wiling to listen.
Actually, the devs promised collision detection "within six months" in April/May 2005, in the immediate aftermath of the CU impact. The lack of C.D. wasn't really a big problem in the pre-CU days, but I recall that the changes in the CU made that absence much more obnoxious.
Actually, the devs promised collision detection "within six months" in April/May 2005, in the immediate aftermath of the CU impact. The lack of C.D. wasn't really a big problem in the pre-CU days, but I recall that the changes in the CU made that absence much more obnoxious.
The implication was very much "we know it doesn't play well now, but the combat system was intended to work with collision detection, and once that is in the game in six months, you'll see how great our combat system can be".
Here we are, nearly three years later, and we still haven't been able to experience this wonderful combat system as it was intended.
These asshats put this crap out KNOWING that there would never be collision detection and did it anyway and lied about it.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is that when they went to try and put in the collision system they ran into the problem where it would take a complete rewrite of the core game system to put it in. So it was not possible to do so from a business point of view.
From my point of view combat now in the game is really not different than it was in pre-cu, pistols fire at .4, carbines at .6, rifles at .8 and melee at 1.0 seconds. Since everyone moves the same it does not seem to me to be the "Benny Hill" movement, you can still target lock if you wish to (I do not and get a 5% crit chance increase becuse of not using it). I do not see the game as a FPS game.
The people such as the disgruntled vets have made their voices heard by not subscribing, not much else you can do. Was it bad planning on saying that something could come into the game and does not, sure thing. Some can't move on and some like myself can.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The current combat system, even with the very poorly implemented target lock system, is nothing like the pre-CU combat system (or the CU combat system, which was a slightly modified version of the pre-CU system). You are either being intentionally dishonest, or you never actually played the game prior to the NGE.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
This is what him and all the defenders of SWG will never understand. They blatantly "sold" the NGE on the premise that these things would be added. The game was changed to a FPS hybrid where collision was and is needed. If they knew that it was so hard or not possible they shouldn't have done it or not advertised it at all. I don't consider anything a developer discusses as a "promise", but when you sell something on an idea such as collision detection or a capital ships video to keep people (basically your investors) you need to deliver.
Throughout the history of the game they constantly "sold" (i.e. carrot on a stick) new systems or enhancements they either knew would never make it into the game or opened their mouth too soon to realize it wouldn't work (such as the 1st combat revamp that was supposed to go in before the jedi revamp and JTL).
For months the answer to any question was that any problems will be fixed in the "Combat revamp" now they are doing the same thing with Hoth by not releasing any information, just the same old carrot to keep people paying until they get it done 4 months from now, and it will be way below what the paying customer is expecting.
I think the NGE was a good idea in that the old system did not work. But, they exhanged the old system with something that was basically an alpha product. The whole game is built around a foundation that does not work for what they tried with the hybrid fps and is one of the worst combat/game systems I have ever played.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
yeah I think it was dropped because of the third reason you mentioned -- no money. The game went belly up and they couldn't afford it.
It's sexier to believe they knew they were lying though, which is probably true as well. Or, more they said it, like they say everything, without really CARING if it's the truth or not. They simply do not value honesty or ethics over there at all, as evidenced by Brenlo's statement about how PROUD he was to work for such a BOLD company.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Well, the NGE was a terrible idea in that it didn't address what was really wrong with pre-CU, which was, the company managing the game.
The NGE as a solution was similar to the removal of one's arms to cure a headache.
fishermage.blogspot.com
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
yeah I think it was dropped because of the third reason you mentioned -- no money. The game went belly up and they couldn't afford it.
It's sexier to believe they knew they were lying though, which is probably true as well. Or, more they said it, like they say everything, without really CARING if it's the truth or not. They simply do not value honesty or ethics over there at all, as evidenced by Brenlo's statement about how PROUD he was to work for such a BOLD company.
Well there's hundred's of files hidden in SWG of things that never came to be. I might not agree with you on paying for SWG/SOE but we basically diagnose the same problem, that they can't comprehend the word "polished".
Blizzard wins because they release a good GAME they don't release an idea. People will play a game as long as it works, but they can only put up with an idea as long as it becomes a reality.
So in other words, they are/were incompetent or maliciously dishonest. Either they dangled that carrot in complete ignorance, or they did so knowing they were lying.
I am inclined to believe the latter, since they had JUST redesigned the entire core of the game, I am sure they knew when the NGE was released precisely what was possible then. IF they did not know this, then theywere utterly incompetent. If you SAY you are gonna do something, one assumes you know whether or not it's possible. If you don't know, well then, you need to be in a different field.
I think we can safely assume they lied knowing they were lying at the time.
I'd bet it was more of the former, but the latter certainly played a part. The target lock system was only added to the post-NGE game because they gave up on trying to implement a collision system. The collision system was dropped mainly because the dev team was massively cut back, due to the huge subscription losses brought about by the NGE (or the poor communication, if you have brain damage, or work for SOE).
yeah I think it was dropped because of the third reason you mentioned -- no money. The game went belly up and they couldn't afford it.
It's sexier to believe they knew they were lying though, which is probably true as well. Or, more they said it, like they say everything, without really CARING if it's the truth or not. They simply do not value honesty or ethics over there at all, as evidenced by Brenlo's statement about how PROUD he was to work for such a BOLD company.
Well there's hundred's of files hidden in SWG of things that never came to be. I might not agree with you on paying for SWG/SOE but we basically diagnose the same problem, that they can't comprehend the word "polished".
Blizzard wins because they release a good GAME they don't release an idea. People will play a game as long as it works, but they can only put up with an idea as long as it becomes a reality.
yeah, Blizzard doesn't even CALL what they do POLISHED. They call it building quality from the ground up. Completely different styles of management and development. TRULY BOLD. They dare to build something worth playing. Pretty cool concept.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I am a vet player from almost day 1 till when NGE first hit. I was disgusted at what they did to the game.
I recently returned with free vet month and am shocked I am resuscribing now. NGE has improved BIGTIME from when it first hit.
No my Jedi isn't a alpha class anymore. I think I am over this. Things are more player skill, equipment, and buff setup then one uber dot weapon, or one fotm templet.
As for the comment from a old master creature handler. They have introduced creature mastery again as a expertise profession you can mix into any main profession. It takes alot of your expertise points to be strong in it which really has a feel of the old time mastery. All your old pets are not useless anymore and are infact worth a fortune now.
Medics buff again, and the buffs are nice. Entertainers can custom buff you which really kicks ass.
The expertise in general makes Jedi feel alot more like the times of old in the power selections. Darkside reminds me of a powers based jedi as the lightside resembles more of a saber/defender templet.
You can however mix the expertise in to change things up (in all professions).
Many of my old time fellow Elders are returning. They have been joining the guild I have (iron-circle.net)
I am no NGE fanboi. This is just a honest opinion from a vet who was very angry at the loss of pre cu, then cu.
The dev team does seem much different then when NGE released.
As for the comment on Bioware having the devs that lied....This is a lie. They have THE ORIGINAL DESIGNER OF PRE CU. NOT the ones who changed it. They also have the designers of KOTOR. So STOP QQ'ing about the sky is falling as Bioware has always been a very solid company.
Also space still rocks. I have lots of fun with guildies up there. Multipassenger gunships are fun.
The new heroic instances are fun also. Many things to do endgame now. The community is still the best I've seen from any MMO. (atleast on my servers Gorath and Starsider)
I never thought I would resub, but I had so much fun in free vet month I am hooked.
SHOHADAKU
Right and they don't need to apologize. If something is wrong they usually fix it within days, they don't wait years or months to address it. This is the huge fundamental difference between SOE and other game developers. They will never get it until people put their foot down and forget that it's "just" $15 a month. You are paying people to do a crappy job.
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I haven't noticed any ral difference. They still don't care if they erase players' effort for the sake of some change they wanna do. The same bugs that were in the game pre-CU are still here. They still have exactly the same attitude.
It's the Smedley.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Exactally, this is my point. Maybe something needs to be done more public.
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Exactally, this is my point. Maybe something needs to be done more public.
That is what we are doing here -- giving them the worst word-of-mouth in the industry. None of it will have an effect until Smedley is gone, however.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Actually people HAVE put their collective feet down. It has had no effect on them.
Exactally, this is my point. Maybe something needs to be done more public.
That is what we are doing here -- giving them the worst word-of-mouth in the industry. None of it will have an effect until Smedley is gone, however.
Well maybe a website where people who've been misled or lied to about MMOs is created. Kind of like a real estate scam where you invest money on false pretences of future development that never pan out. It would have to involve an intense scrutiny of the ULA etc, but basically a bait and switch that hasn't been tried to my knowledge against MMO companies.