bioware is now owned by EA who holds the same colourful description that you just gave to sony. So basically your saying that the "blame" for lucas arts screws up will come one day but not today?
SWG's history is going to be brought up as soon as BioWare's MMO is officially announced. A lot more people will bring up LEC's portion of the blame for SWG's current state. LEC's official position on SWG is "Talk to SOE about it". There will be more than a few LEC folks promoting BioWare's MMO, so LEC will have a public face, and as such, will see much of the backlash towards SWG that they have avoided so far. Everything that went wrong with SWG will be brought up.
EA is nowhere near as Bad as SOE when it comes to screwing their customers. EA is very bad about screwing the developers it buys up, but they don't run around insulting the customers they upset by doing so afterwards, or try to blaim their customers for it. EA is also much more likely to shut down an MMO that is doing poorly, as opposed to screwing over their customers by revamping the game out from under them. SWG wouldn't be the lightning rod it currently is if the game was shut down instead of revamped. Shutting SWG down would have been a better business decision, and a much better PR decision, than the revamp was.
Have you seen the recent EA land mess? thats almost identical in every way to SWG.
They decided they were going to try to compete with second life. Did a revamp with the same customers in place, but they did something that is worse in my opinion (which I hope is take just as that). After taking people's money they about 8 montsh maybe at tops shut the entire EA land project down. They refunded some money but not all and gave free pogo time to the subscribers. The subscriber base like the SWG subscriber base was not tha large 200k if your lucky. So they attempted to screw a minority in order to get a majority. It failed miserabely worse and ended up in the entire thing being shut down. Customers in many cases lots a bundle of money as it was using a the same model as second life and so people were treating it like second life. EA land just after converting this thing to a basic microtransaction system with a two tier membership system and stuff shut the doors in the customers faces. That's just recent as in well 30 days maybe (i can't remember july first or august first was the shut down date).
The Sims Online was under 10K subscribers. EA Land was the same game with a different payment model, plus features add to, not replacing, what was already in the game. EA Land was a free to play RMT game. EA Land wasn't a complete game revamp. EA even (somewhat) compensated their customers, by offering them a $15 discount at the EA Store, or a free month Club Pogo membership. They also annoounced both the EA Land change and the closing of the game, well in advance (the shutdown announcement was made 60 days prior to the actual shutdown date). The whole EA Land concept was an attempt to revitalize the game for the folks who play it, with the hopes of attracting more people. The whole thing was basically the exact opposite of what happened with the NGE.
SOE is still at the bottom where ethics are concerned.
I was one of those subscribers enough said. Having been through both and lost no money with sony and lost money with these guys and find that after all that crap they pulled they shut it down PLUS you have to phone and pay a long distance phone bill to cancel stuff PLUS the fact that i have a two year old customer support ticket up with them leaves no doubt in my mind that they are as bad if not worse then sony. This is something people who have only played sony games will be finding out soon enough assuming this kotor online thing is real... The warmhammer crowd will be interesting to watch too :P . EA is pretty damned bad at least sony eventually answers my tickets. I can't say the same for EA. I do however have some free pogo time that i dont want to show for it all. lol
and what has all this personal stuff got to do with the topic of what could they do to get people back, or the subtopic of whether or not LA had a great deal to do with the NGE?
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ummax
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by ummax
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by ummax
bioware is now owned by EA who holds the same colourful description that you just gave to sony. So basically your saying that the "blame" for lucas arts screws up will come one day but not today?
SWG's history is going to be brought up as soon as BioWare's MMO is officially announced. A lot more people will bring up LEC's portion of the blame for SWG's current state. LEC's official position on SWG is "Talk to SOE about it". There will be more than a few LEC folks promoting BioWare's MMO, so LEC will have a public face, and as such, will see much of the backlash towards SWG that they have avoided so far. Everything that went wrong with SWG will be brought up. EA is nowhere near as Bad as SOE when it comes to screwing their customers. EA is very bad about screwing the developers it buys up, but they don't run around insulting the customers they upset by doing so afterwards, or try to blaim their customers for it. EA is also much more likely to shut down an MMO that is doing poorly, as opposed to screwing over their customers by revamping the game out from under them. SWG wouldn't be the lightning rod it currently is if the game was shut down instead of revamped. Shutting SWG down would have been a better business decision, and a much better PR decision, than the revamp was.
Have you seen the recent EA land mess? thats almost identical in every way to SWG. They decided they were going to try to compete with second life. Did a revamp with the same customers in place, but they did something that is worse in my opinion (which I hope is take just as that). After taking people's money they about 8 montsh maybe at tops shut the entire EA land project down. They refunded some money but not all and gave free pogo time to the subscribers. The subscriber base like the SWG subscriber base was not tha large 200k if your lucky. So they attempted to screw a minority in order to get a majority. It failed miserabely worse and ended up in the entire thing being shut down. Customers in many cases lots a bundle of money as it was using a the same model as second life and so people were treating it like second life. EA land just after converting this thing to a basic microtransaction system with a two tier membership system and stuff shut the doors in the customers faces. That's just recent as in well 30 days maybe (i can't remember july first or august first was the shut down date).
The Sims Online was under 10K subscribers. EA Land was the same game with a different payment model, plus features add to, not replacing, what was already in the game. EA Land was a free to play RMT game. EA Land wasn't a complete game revamp. EA even (somewhat) compensated their customers, by offering them a $15 discount at the EA Store, or a free month Club Pogo membership. They also annoounced both the EA Land change and the closing of the game, well in advance (the shutdown announcement was made 60 days prior to the actual shutdown date). The whole EA Land concept was an attempt to revitalize the game for the folks who play it, with the hopes of attracting more people. The whole thing was basically the exact opposite of what happened with the NGE. SOE is still at the bottom where ethics are concerned.
I was one of those subscribers enough said. Having been through both and lost no money with sony and lost money with these guys and find that after all that crap they pulled they shut it down PLUS you have to phone and pay a long distance phone bill to cancel stuff PLUS the fact that i have a two year old customer support ticket up with them leaves no doubt in my mind that they are as bad if not worse then sony. This is something people who have only played sony games will be finding out soon enough assuming this kotor online thing is real... The warmhammer crowd will be interesting to watch too :P . EA is pretty damned bad at least sony eventually answers my tickets. I can't say the same for EA. I do however have some free pogo time that i dont want to show for it all. lol
and what has all this personal stuff got to do with the topic of what could they do to get people back, or the subtopic of whether or not LA had a great deal to do with the NGE?
read the thread and find out.
I did, and it seems that first you pulled out a small piece of what Obee said, and used that in a clear attempt to hijack. You have continued with it until you could finally spring your 'why I hate EA story."
Now, what has it got to do with the actual discussion? please show me how I am wrong.
I was one of those subscribers enough said. Having been through both and lost no money with sony and lost money with these guys and find that after all that crap they pulled they shut it down PLUS you have to phone and pay a long distance phone bill to cancel stuff PLUS the fact that i have a two year old customer support ticket up with them leaves no doubt in my mind that they are as bad if not worse then sony. This is something people who have only played sony games will be finding out soon enough assuming this kotor online thing is real... The warmhammer crowd will be interesting to watch too :P . EA is pretty damned bad at least sony eventually answers my tickets. I can't say the same for EA. I do however have some free pogo time that i dont want to show for it all. lol
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by efefia Originally posted by ummax
I was one of those subscribers enough said. Having been through both and lost no money with sony and lost money with these guys and find that after all that crap they pulled they shut it down PLUS you have to phone and pay a long distance phone bill to cancel stuff PLUS the fact that i have a two year old customer support ticket up with them leaves no doubt in my mind that they are as bad if not worse then sony. This is something people who have only played sony games will be finding out soon enough assuming this kotor online thing is real... The warmhammer crowd will be interesting to watch too :P . EA is pretty damned bad at least sony eventually answers my tickets. I can't say the same for EA. I do however have some free pogo time that i dont want to show for it all. lol
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them... The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends. so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
and what does any of this have to do with whether LA or SOE was more to blame for the NGE, or what LA/SOE would have to do to bring players back?
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
You make it seem as if everyone is obligated to join the "vets" on their crusade, and if they don't, it somehow qualifies as deriliction of duty.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
You make it seem as if everyone is obligated to join the "vets" on their crusade, and if they don't, it somehow qualifies as deriliction of duty.
No, I just find it more than a little self-centered to completely dismiss everything that the folks who were actually involved in the NGE have said, based on the fact that he likes the game. Likewise with the argument that SOE did nothing wrong, stringing along customers by claiming to be working on adding improvements to the existing game that they knew were not going to be implemented and promoting an expansion based on features that were not going to be a part of the revamp (to the point where they offered a refund to folks who bought it so they could avoid legal trouble), because he didn't like the old game anyway, so the fact that the folks at SOE lied isn't that big of a deal. But hey, he had a bad experience once with EA, so they are obviously worse than SOE could ever hope to be.
He has done a better job of invalidating his arguments than anyone else in the thread (and Fisher blew him out of the water early on).
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
really? oh?
See I was there and so were my friends we don't feel as you do. The reason this subcommunity exists today is due to the fact that SOME people feel as you do, but OTHERS do not.
So read it carefully as this is NOT self centered
1) I dont actualy think sony was that evil. I try to downplay it in order to extend some level of understanding on the subject
2) I play it as a game. The fun stops for me when something happens in the game to not make it fun any longer. If i pay ahead and I suddently stop playing a game (which is rarely) I dont go asking for a refund because they changed my WoW hunters abilities (true story that.. I had a hunter in WoW and they did a hunter "revamp" .. I no longer liked the game and left but had paid ahead by 3 months.. ) I read fine print.
3) The people on this forum turn a completely blind eye to the fact that LA holds all control on matters its their money, their IP they material hence they hold a good share of the responsibility
4) fishermage has been blown out of the water by other posters in this thread besides myself I'm just his favourite play thing
5) I stated my piece and what I think. I know its not possible to change anyones mind here especially fisher mages' and I"m not here to change minds.
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
7) your right I dont agree with the way the handful of people carry on here because its unjustified when I have experienced THE EXACT SAME thing in the present and people like YOU are willing to turn a blind eye to it, sweep it under the rug and even pay money to them when the fabled kotor 3 is released
8) i'm a realist. The fact of the matter is as they say "shit happens" I stopped playing as well. I"m playing again with full knowledge of what is out there and what other companies offer. I also play with the realization that nothing is forever and unchanging and that if I do subscribe to the game that is being produced under EA's umbrella I will go in with EYES OPEN not shut tight and realize that they are no better and are in fact worse then sony, but they fit my minimum criteria of being capable of keeping my credit card info safe which unfrotunately due to corporate behaviour is all that I can expect and hope for!
So yeah I have been burned more then once and just as badly as sony customers. I dont see you extending that particular population any sympothy in fact I dont see you extending even an acknowledgement that this happens to others including myself in this thread. In your books you were "burned worse" then me! So have some kind of god given right to say what you do? and call others selfish when you can't even acknowledge the fact that someone in this thread has experienced the same thing with a company your about to do business with, but wait.. I'm not screaming loud enough.. Bottom line if you truly are going to be an EA customer the screaming that will be made if this forum is any indication will be 10 times worse then what we see here. Because that is what happens here.
/shrugs
I'm sorry for your loss, but its just a game.. just like the money I lost it was not that much and games are not forever, but one thing I can say for sony is that THEY DID NOT BUCKLE UNDER and shut servers leaving me without that game to play unlike EA did !
As for the vet thing.. Yes I created my first SWG character in August of 2003 and signed onto the forums for the first time a couple of months later. I too am a "vet". I know what they launched with and I know what went on. I know that the game still exists and that some people left and some people stayed. Funny that I was one that left....as my MCM was toast. So I experienced what you did with the exception of not buying ahead cause I know better and never pay 1 year in advance. Sony gave money back to those that felt they had been ripped off for the expansion. Since the game still existed and half these people were still logging and the fine print exsts they didn't refund the subscription money. I have taken my lumps in other games just like you have taken you lumps in this game. I can only feel so much sympathy for a population that does not know the meaning of the word "forgiveness" when it comes to one company, but it capapble of absolving any other company of wrondoings in the industry. You call people like me "selfish" and self centered. Yet the ego centric behaviour you are exhibiting right now is not better and has been shown in this thread. I told you I was ripped off by EA and you tried to justify their behaviour. I know why you did that but do you?
Originally posted by ummax 6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
Originally posted by ummax 6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read one apology directly from an SOE rep to the players that got burned. It apologized for the "timing" and "communication" of the NGE. It was made by Brenlo. He did not apologize for misleading everyone regarding the promised profession revamps and deleted features in the new expansion. He also did not apologize to everyone for the incredible losses they experienced regarding 2 years of progress and community building.
Not only did his apology fall far short of acknowledging SOE's actions and their consequences, but he also went on to say how proud he was that SOE was willing to take such a bold risk.
Can you see why this was not accepted by many players as a genuine apology for what actually took place?
I've also read unofficial apologies made by Smed, not to the players themselves, but to third party websites. For example, he'll tell someone like warcry that he made a mistake, that he should have listened to the players, and that it was a cardinal sin not to. O.k., I'm glad he can admit that he didn't listen and that he should have. However, if he wants this apology to have some kind of positive impact, he should make an official apology as the President of SOE TO the players that got burned.
What do people want an apology for? Well as I've mentioned, for being mislead about profession revamps and the ToOW expansion, for the loss of years worth of progress and community building, AND for not listening to the players when they literally begged him not to go forward with the NGE because of the destructive impact it would have on the game and the playerbase.
Also, if he is able/willing to make this kind of sincere and direct apology to the players, he should also be willing to give back all of the subscription money people gave him to play the profession revamps and expansion features that they were not able to enjoy, because of the NGE. And yes, I'm aware that SOE can change their game according to their EULA. People should not be reimbursed because the game was changed; they should be reimbursed because they were misled about the upcoming changes (e.g promised revamps and given deletions instead).
You mention NCsoft and how SOE is better than them for some reason. Well here's my latest experience with NCsoft: They released Issue 12 with a bug that left many players out of sync with the map server. It was a serious bug. NCsoft apologized for the bug, they said it was their fault, they dedicated their engineering staff to correcting it, they did correct it, and they gave a month's worth of free time to everyone affected by the bug.
To this day, I have never seen SOE handle serious bugs and issues like this. I've heard things like "working as intended," "the bug doesn't really exist," "no response whatsoever," "it's not really that bad, player's don't mind it," "we didn't say we'd fix it, we said we'd look into fixing it." "the bug is fixed--when it really isn't," "and here's the fix for the bug--then they provide a very inconvient workaround like logging out and back in to temporarily correct a problem."
When I compare my two experiences, I have to say that NCsoft has been much, much more helpful in terms of honestly apologizing for errors on their part, and then doing something to fix the problem AND compensate affected players. As a result, I continue to regularly give NCsoft my business, and SOE gets none.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Obee Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by efefia Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by efefia
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them... The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends. so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other. Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement /shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it. Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright. You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
really? oh? See I was there and so were my friends we don't feel as you do. The reason this subcommunity exists today is due to the fact that SOME people feel as you do, but OTHERS do not. So read it carefully as this is NOT self centered 1) I dont actualy think sony was that evil. I try to downplay it in order to extend some level of understanding on the subject 2) I play it as a game. The fun stops for me when something happens in the game to not make it fun any longer. If i pay ahead and I suddently stop playing a game (which is rarely) I dont go asking for a refund because they changed my WoW hunters abilities (true story that.. I had a hunter in WoW and they did a hunter "revamp" .. I no longer liked the game and left but had paid ahead by 3 months.. ) I read fine print. 3) The people on this forum turn a completely blind eye to the fact that LA holds all control on matters its their money, their IP they material hence they hold a good share of the responsibility 4) fishermage has been blown out of the water by other posters in this thread besides myself I'm just his favourite play thing 5) I stated my piece and what I think. I know its not possible to change anyones mind here especially fisher mages' and I"m not here to change minds. 6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER. 7) your right I dont agree with the way the handful of people carry on here because its unjustified when I have experienced THE EXACT SAME thing in the present and people like YOU are willing to turn a blind eye to it, sweep it under the rug and even pay money to them when the fabled kotor 3 is released 8) i'm a realist. The fact of the matter is as they say "shit happens" I stopped playing as well. I"m playing again with full knowledge of what is out there and what other companies offer. I also play with the realization that nothing is forever and unchanging and that if I do subscribe to the game that is being produced under EA's umbrella I will go in with EYES OPEN not shut tight and realize that they are no better and are in fact worse then sony, but they fit my minimum criteria of being capable of keeping my credit card info safe which unfrotunately due to corporate behaviour is all that I can expect and hope for! So yeah I have been burned more then once and just as badly as sony customers. I dont see you extending that particular population any sympothy in fact I dont see you extending even an acknowledgement that this happens to others including myself in this thread. In your books you were "burned worse" then me! So have some kind of god given right to say what you do? and call others selfish when you can't even acknowledge the fact that someone in this thread has experienced the same thing with a company your about to do business with, but wait.. I'm not screaming loud enough.. Bottom line if you truly are going to be an EA customer the screaming that will be made if this forum is any indication will be 10 times worse then what we see here. Because that is what happens here. /shrugs I'm sorry for your loss, but its just a game.. just like the money I lost it was not that much and games are not forever, but one thing I can say for sony is that THEY DID NOT BUCKLE UNDER and shut servers leaving me without that game to play unlike EA did ! As for the vet thing.. Yes I created my first SWG character in August of 2003 and signed onto the forums for the first time a couple of months later. I too am a "vet". I know what they launched with and I know what went on. I know that the game still exists and that some people left and some people stayed. Funny that I was one that left....as my MCM was toast. So I experienced what you did with the exception of not buying ahead cause I know better and never pay 1 year in advance. Sony gave money back to those that felt they had been ripped off for the expansion. Since the game still existed and half these people were still logging and the fine print exsts they didn't refund the subscription money. I have taken my lumps in other games just like you have taken you lumps in this game. I can only feel so much sympathy for a population that does not know the meaning of the word "forgiveness" when it comes to one company, but it capapble of absolving any other company of wrondoings in the industry. You call people like me "selfish" and self centered. Yet the ego centric behaviour you are exhibiting right now is not better and has been shown in this thread. I told you I was ripped off by EA and you tried to justify their behaviour. I know why you did that but do you?
Please, do please demonstrate as a matter of review, exactly where I was "blown out of the water" by anyone in this (or any other) thread.
You are FAR from my favorite plaything; I find you dreadfully dull in fact. You just repeatedly make statements with questionable logic and truthvalue, and I feel obligated to call you on it, and ask you to prove you point -- as I am doing now.
Please, do please demonstrate as a matter of review, exactly where I was "blown out of the water" by anyone in this (or any other) thread. You are FAR from my favorite plaything; I find you dreadfully dull in fact. You just repeatedly make statements with questionable logic and truthvalue, and I feel obligated to call you on it, and ask you to prove you point -- as I am doing now.
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..)
Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage
Please, do please demonstrate as a matter of review, exactly where I was "blown out of the water" by anyone in this (or any other) thread. You are FAR from my favorite plaything; I find you dreadfully dull in fact. You just repeatedly make statements with questionable logic and truthvalue, and I feel obligated to call you on it, and ask you to prove you point -- as I am doing now.
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..) Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, you can't. Thank you for your time.
Please, do please demonstrate as a matter of review, exactly where I was "blown out of the water" by anyone in this (or any other) thread.
You are FAR from my favorite plaything; I find you dreadfully dull in fact. You just repeatedly make statements with questionable logic and truthvalue, and I feel obligated to call you on it, and ask you to prove you point -- as I am doing now.
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..)
Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, you can't. Thank you for your time.
yes according to the church of fisher I can't.
One question then? why didn't you do the same to the others that said what I said including then a person who appears to be your friend? you completely ignored his remarks which backed up everything I said and only focused on me. Hence the "im fishers favourite plaything" . You ignored the other guy who emphatically stated that he does not blame sony but blames LA and that you can flame him all he likes about that but he knows what is. You didn't ask either of them for "evidence" that is why I ignore you. Lastly the last time you were asked for proof was by me to see if you would provide it. You did not you said something wishy washy like "its all over the board blah blah blah" and then another person asked for "proof" and you said the same thing again. You see for you the only person that needs to prove anything is other people but when it comes to you this is not so because of your your always right. Bottom line the answers to your queiries are in this thread, but you refused to acknowledge their existance and would rather start more arguments on what you feel is valid subject material for this thread etc. Fact is your just a guy who appears to hold himself above all other posters on this board who is very very careful at who he demands "evidence" from lest he do it to people who are his friends. Fact is you only have this issue with people who you hold zero trust, respect for. At this point I have figured you out and the only reason you go at me and not others in this thread is because of what you think of me and nothing more. Fact is I stopped paying attention to you and indulging you about a week back if you will notice when you start demanding evidence the conversation stops. I usualy say no and I ignore any further posts no matter how hard you stomp and keep spaming and asking in the thread I just ignore it and since this is about to errupt into another "no you didn't "yes you did" pissing contest this will be the last word to you again until you start talking like a regular person again.. lol
Please, do please demonstrate as a matter of review, exactly where I was "blown out of the water" by anyone in this (or any other) thread. You are FAR from my favorite plaything; I find you dreadfully dull in fact. You just repeatedly make statements with questionable logic and truthvalue, and I feel obligated to call you on it, and ask you to prove you point -- as I am doing now.
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..) Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, you can't. Thank you for your time.
yes according to the church of fisher I can't. One question then? why didn't you do the same to the others that said what I said including then a person who appears to be your friend? you completely ignored his remarks which backed up everything I said and only focused on me. Hence the "im fishers favourite plaything" . You ignored the other guy who emphatically stated that he does not blame sony but blames LA and that you can flame him all he likes about that but he knows what is. You didn't ask either of them for "evidence" that is why I ignore you. Lastly the last time you were asked for proof was by me to see if you would provide it. You did not you said something wishy washy like "its all over the board blah blah blah" and then another person asked for "proof" and you said the same thing again. You see for you the only person that needs to prove anything is other people but when it comes to you this is not so because of your your always right. Bottom line the answers to your queiries are in this thread, but you refused to acknowledge their existance and would rather start more arguments on what you feel is valid subject material for this thread etc. Fact is your just a guy who appears to hold himself above all other posters on this board who is very very careful at who he demands "evidence" from lest he do it to people who are his friends. Fact is you only have this issue with people who you hold zero trust, respect for. At this point I have figured you out and the only reason you go at me and not others in this thread is because of what you think of me and nothing more. Fact is I stopped paying attention to you and indulging you about a week back if you will notice when you start demanding evidence the conversation stops. I usualy say no and I ignore any further posts no matter how hard you stomp and keep spaming and asking in the thread I just ignore it and since this is about to errupt into another "no you didn't "yes you did" pissing contest this will be the last word to you again until you start talking like a regular person again.. lol
English, please?
EDIT: after deciphering that rambling as best I can, what the heck are you talking about? why are you taking this all so personally? If I hold myself above all others, how do I consider some to be my friends? Friends are equals. Now, which of thse so-called friends did I NOT differ with? Please, what the heck are you talking about?
Why do you keep holding these silly grudges from thread to thread? can you actually argue a point and stay on topic? If you want to discuss things that happened in another thread, how about actually sharing the specifics if you can, so I can reasonably answer your accusations?
That's the best I can answer your rambling. It merely raises more questions.
Originally posted by ummax 6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Suvroc Originally posted by ummax 6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for. They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people. I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.
yeah he has its jsut not good enough for some people. It was good enough for me. I can recognize when a company makes a true effort to make things right its shown in what they are doing presently and what he has said.
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.
yeah he has its jsut not good enough for some people. It was good enough for me. I can recognize when a company makes a true effort to make things right its shown in what they are doing presently and what he has said.
Depends on what you think the "mistake" is. He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.
So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again. Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch.
Depends on what you think the "mistake" is. He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself. So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again. Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.
that will never happen and you know it
a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony. LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.
b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice. When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was. That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.
They said they didn't care if they lost customers over the NGE, so since they don't care if they lose money, they should have a few precu servers. Even if no one subscribed the gesture would go along way.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Esquire1980
Depends on what you think the "mistake" is. He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself. So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again. Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.
that will never happen and you know it a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony. LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills. b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice. When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was. That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.
Actually, he is asking them to stop making the same mistake over and over again. They have already made the same mistake (although to a lesser extent) at least five times since the NGE. THAT is why they fail.
They said they didn't care if they lost customers over the NGE, so since they don't care if they lose money, they should have a few precu servers. Even if no one subscribed the gesture would go along way.
well it appears LA doesn't agree that those servers are necessary. YOu see your beef is with LA not Sony your complaining about the wrong company at this point in time.
Comments
SWG's history is going to be brought up as soon as BioWare's MMO is officially announced. A lot more people will bring up LEC's portion of the blame for SWG's current state. LEC's official position on SWG is "Talk to SOE about it". There will be more than a few LEC folks promoting BioWare's MMO, so LEC will have a public face, and as such, will see much of the backlash towards SWG that they have avoided so far. Everything that went wrong with SWG will be brought up.
EA is nowhere near as Bad as SOE when it comes to screwing their customers. EA is very bad about screwing the developers it buys up, but they don't run around insulting the customers they upset by doing so afterwards, or try to blaim their customers for it. EA is also much more likely to shut down an MMO that is doing poorly, as opposed to screwing over their customers by revamping the game out from under them. SWG wouldn't be the lightning rod it currently is if the game was shut down instead of revamped. Shutting SWG down would have been a better business decision, and a much better PR decision, than the revamp was.
Have you seen the recent EA land mess? thats almost identical in every way to SWG.
They decided they were going to try to compete with second life. Did a revamp with the same customers in place, but they did something that is worse in my opinion (which I hope is take just as that). After taking people's money they about 8 montsh maybe at tops shut the entire EA land project down. They refunded some money but not all and gave free pogo time to the subscribers. The subscriber base like the SWG subscriber base was not tha large 200k if your lucky. So they attempted to screw a minority in order to get a majority. It failed miserabely worse and ended up in the entire thing being shut down. Customers in many cases lots a bundle of money as it was using a the same model as second life and so people were treating it like second life. EA land just after converting this thing to a basic microtransaction system with a two tier membership system and stuff shut the doors in the customers faces. That's just recent as in well 30 days maybe (i can't remember july first or august first was the shut down date).
The Sims Online was under 10K subscribers. EA Land was the same game with a different payment model, plus features add to, not replacing, what was already in the game. EA Land was a free to play RMT game. EA Land wasn't a complete game revamp. EA even (somewhat) compensated their customers, by offering them a $15 discount at the EA Store, or a free month Club Pogo membership. They also annoounced both the EA Land change and the closing of the game, well in advance (the shutdown announcement was made 60 days prior to the actual shutdown date). The whole EA Land concept was an attempt to revitalize the game for the folks who play it, with the hopes of attracting more people. The whole thing was basically the exact opposite of what happened with the NGE.
SOE is still at the bottom where ethics are concerned.
I was one of those subscribers enough said. Having been through both and lost no money with sony and lost money with these guys and find that after all that crap they pulled they shut it down PLUS you have to phone and pay a long distance phone bill to cancel stuff PLUS the fact that i have a two year old customer support ticket up with them leaves no doubt in my mind that they are as bad if not worse then sony. This is something people who have only played sony games will be finding out soon enough assuming this kotor online thing is real... The warmhammer crowd will be interesting to watch too :P . EA is pretty damned bad at least sony eventually answers my tickets. I can't say the same for EA. I do however have some free pogo time that i dont want to show for it all. lol
and what has all this personal stuff got to do with the topic of what could they do to get people back, or the subtopic of whether or not LA had a great deal to do with the NGE?
read the thread and find out.
SWG's history is going to be brought up as soon as BioWare's MMO is officially announced. A lot more people will bring up LEC's portion of the blame for SWG's current state. LEC's official position on SWG is "Talk to SOE about it". There will be more than a few LEC folks promoting BioWare's MMO, so LEC will have a public face, and as such, will see much of the backlash towards SWG that they have avoided so far. Everything that went wrong with SWG will be brought up.
EA is nowhere near as Bad as SOE when it comes to screwing their customers. EA is very bad about screwing the developers it buys up, but they don't run around insulting the customers they upset by doing so afterwards, or try to blaim their customers for it. EA is also much more likely to shut down an MMO that is doing poorly, as opposed to screwing over their customers by revamping the game out from under them. SWG wouldn't be the lightning rod it currently is if the game was shut down instead of revamped. Shutting SWG down would have been a better business decision, and a much better PR decision, than the revamp was.
Have you seen the recent EA land mess? thats almost identical in every way to SWG.
They decided they were going to try to compete with second life. Did a revamp with the same customers in place, but they did something that is worse in my opinion (which I hope is take just as that). After taking people's money they about 8 montsh maybe at tops shut the entire EA land project down. They refunded some money but not all and gave free pogo time to the subscribers. The subscriber base like the SWG subscriber base was not tha large 200k if your lucky. So they attempted to screw a minority in order to get a majority. It failed miserabely worse and ended up in the entire thing being shut down. Customers in many cases lots a bundle of money as it was using a the same model as second life and so people were treating it like second life. EA land just after converting this thing to a basic microtransaction system with a two tier membership system and stuff shut the doors in the customers faces. That's just recent as in well 30 days maybe (i can't remember july first or august first was the shut down date).
The Sims Online was under 10K subscribers. EA Land was the same game with a different payment model, plus features add to, not replacing, what was already in the game. EA Land was a free to play RMT game. EA Land wasn't a complete game revamp. EA even (somewhat) compensated their customers, by offering them a $15 discount at the EA Store, or a free month Club Pogo membership. They also annoounced both the EA Land change and the closing of the game, well in advance (the shutdown announcement was made 60 days prior to the actual shutdown date). The whole EA Land concept was an attempt to revitalize the game for the folks who play it, with the hopes of attracting more people. The whole thing was basically the exact opposite of what happened with the NGE.
SOE is still at the bottom where ethics are concerned.
I was one of those subscribers enough said. Having been through both and lost no money with sony and lost money with these guys and find that after all that crap they pulled they shut it down PLUS you have to phone and pay a long distance phone bill to cancel stuff PLUS the fact that i have a two year old customer support ticket up with them leaves no doubt in my mind that they are as bad if not worse then sony. This is something people who have only played sony games will be finding out soon enough assuming this kotor online thing is real... The warmhammer crowd will be interesting to watch too :P . EA is pretty damned bad at least sony eventually answers my tickets. I can't say the same for EA. I do however have some free pogo time that i dont want to show for it all. lol
and what has all this personal stuff got to do with the topic of what could they do to get people back, or the subtopic of whether or not LA had a great deal to do with the NGE?
read the thread and find out.
I did, and it seems that first you pulled out a small piece of what Obee said, and used that in a clear attempt to hijack. You have continued with it until you could finally spring your 'why I hate EA story."
Now, what has it got to do with the actual discussion? please show me how I am wrong.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well there's probably people that had a years subscription to SWG on the strength of Smed's "The CU is here to stay" speech after the NGE hit, they could have been stung for $150. I can't recall any instance that EA have managed to gouge that sort of amount while blatantly lying.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
and what does any of this have to do with whether LA or SOE was more to blame for the NGE, or what LA/SOE would have to do to bring players back?
fishermage.blogspot.com
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
You make it seem as if everyone is obligated to join the "vets" on their crusade, and if they don't, it somehow qualifies as deriliction of duty.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
You make it seem as if everyone is obligated to join the "vets" on their crusade, and if they don't, it somehow qualifies as deriliction of duty.
No, I just find it more than a little self-centered to completely dismiss everything that the folks who were actually involved in the NGE have said, based on the fact that he likes the game. Likewise with the argument that SOE did nothing wrong, stringing along customers by claiming to be working on adding improvements to the existing game that they knew were not going to be implemented and promoting an expansion based on features that were not going to be a part of the revamp (to the point where they offered a refund to folks who bought it so they could avoid legal trouble), because he didn't like the old game anyway, so the fact that the folks at SOE lied isn't that big of a deal. But hey, he had a bad experience once with EA, so they are obviously worse than SOE could ever hope to be.
He has done a better job of invalidating his arguments than anyone else in the thread (and Fisher blew him out of the water early on).
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
really? oh?
See I was there and so were my friends we don't feel as you do. The reason this subcommunity exists today is due to the fact that SOME people feel as you do, but OTHERS do not.
So read it carefully as this is NOT self centered
1) I dont actualy think sony was that evil. I try to downplay it in order to extend some level of understanding on the subject
2) I play it as a game. The fun stops for me when something happens in the game to not make it fun any longer. If i pay ahead and I suddently stop playing a game (which is rarely) I dont go asking for a refund because they changed my WoW hunters abilities (true story that.. I had a hunter in WoW and they did a hunter "revamp" .. I no longer liked the game and left but had paid ahead by 3 months.. ) I read fine print.
3) The people on this forum turn a completely blind eye to the fact that LA holds all control on matters its their money, their IP they material hence they hold a good share of the responsibility
4) fishermage has been blown out of the water by other posters in this thread besides myself I'm just his favourite play thing
5) I stated my piece and what I think. I know its not possible to change anyones mind here especially fisher mages' and I"m not here to change minds.
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
7) your right I dont agree with the way the handful of people carry on here because its unjustified when I have experienced THE EXACT SAME thing in the present and people like YOU are willing to turn a blind eye to it, sweep it under the rug and even pay money to them when the fabled kotor 3 is released
8) i'm a realist. The fact of the matter is as they say "shit happens" I stopped playing as well. I"m playing again with full knowledge of what is out there and what other companies offer. I also play with the realization that nothing is forever and unchanging and that if I do subscribe to the game that is being produced under EA's umbrella I will go in with EYES OPEN not shut tight and realize that they are no better and are in fact worse then sony, but they fit my minimum criteria of being capable of keeping my credit card info safe which unfrotunately due to corporate behaviour is all that I can expect and hope for!
So yeah I have been burned more then once and just as badly as sony customers. I dont see you extending that particular population any sympothy in fact I dont see you extending even an acknowledgement that this happens to others including myself in this thread. In your books you were "burned worse" then me! So have some kind of god given right to say what you do? and call others selfish when you can't even acknowledge the fact that someone in this thread has experienced the same thing with a company your about to do business with, but wait.. I'm not screaming loud enough.. Bottom line if you truly are going to be an EA customer the screaming that will be made if this forum is any indication will be 10 times worse then what we see here. Because that is what happens here.
/shrugs
I'm sorry for your loss, but its just a game.. just like the money I lost it was not that much and games are not forever, but one thing I can say for sony is that THEY DID NOT BUCKLE UNDER and shut servers leaving me without that game to play unlike EA did !
As for the vet thing.. Yes I created my first SWG character in August of 2003 and signed onto the forums for the first time a couple of months later. I too am a "vet". I know what they launched with and I know what went on. I know that the game still exists and that some people left and some people stayed. Funny that I was one that left....as my MCM was toast. So I experienced what you did with the exception of not buying ahead cause I know better and never pay 1 year in advance. Sony gave money back to those that felt they had been ripped off for the expansion. Since the game still existed and half these people were still logging and the fine print exsts they didn't refund the subscription money. I have taken my lumps in other games just like you have taken you lumps in this game. I can only feel so much sympathy for a population that does not know the meaning of the word "forgiveness" when it comes to one company, but it capapble of absolving any other company of wrondoings in the industry. You call people like me "selfish" and self centered. Yet the ego centric behaviour you are exhibiting right now is not better and has been shown in this thread. I told you I was ripped off by EA and you tried to justify their behaviour. I know why you did that but do you?
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read one apology directly from an SOE rep to the players that got burned. It apologized for the "timing" and "communication" of the NGE. It was made by Brenlo. He did not apologize for misleading everyone regarding the promised profession revamps and deleted features in the new expansion. He also did not apologize to everyone for the incredible losses they experienced regarding 2 years of progress and community building.
Not only did his apology fall far short of acknowledging SOE's actions and their consequences, but he also went on to say how proud he was that SOE was willing to take such a bold risk.
Can you see why this was not accepted by many players as a genuine apology for what actually took place?
I've also read unofficial apologies made by Smed, not to the players themselves, but to third party websites. For example, he'll tell someone like warcry that he made a mistake, that he should have listened to the players, and that it was a cardinal sin not to. O.k., I'm glad he can admit that he didn't listen and that he should have. However, if he wants this apology to have some kind of positive impact, he should make an official apology as the President of SOE TO the players that got burned.
What do people want an apology for? Well as I've mentioned, for being mislead about profession revamps and the ToOW expansion, for the loss of years worth of progress and community building, AND for not listening to the players when they literally begged him not to go forward with the NGE because of the destructive impact it would have on the game and the playerbase.
Also, if he is able/willing to make this kind of sincere and direct apology to the players, he should also be willing to give back all of the subscription money people gave him to play the profession revamps and expansion features that they were not able to enjoy, because of the NGE. And yes, I'm aware that SOE can change their game according to their EULA. People should not be reimbursed because the game was changed; they should be reimbursed because they were misled about the upcoming changes (e.g promised revamps and given deletions instead).
You mention NCsoft and how SOE is better than them for some reason. Well here's my latest experience with NCsoft: They released Issue 12 with a bug that left many players out of sync with the map server. It was a serious bug. NCsoft apologized for the bug, they said it was their fault, they dedicated their engineering staff to correcting it, they did correct it, and they gave a month's worth of free time to everyone affected by the bug.
To this day, I have never seen SOE handle serious bugs and issues like this. I've heard things like "working as intended," "the bug doesn't really exist," "no response whatsoever," "it's not really that bad, player's don't mind it," "we didn't say we'd fix it, we said we'd look into fixing it." "the bug is fixed--when it really isn't," "and here's the fix for the bug--then they provide a very inconvient workaround like logging out and back in to temporarily correct a problem."
When I compare my two experiences, I have to say that NCsoft has been much, much more helpful in terms of honestly apologizing for errors on their part, and then doing something to fix the problem AND compensate affected players. As a result, I continue to regularly give NCsoft my business, and SOE gets none.
Yeah I dont spend money on year long subscriptions but others do. I lost like not much which is why I got like a couple months of free pogotime .. however there are always that will be loosing more then like 15 or 20 bucks. However the stories are identical despite what people want to think they will not be imune elsewhere as EA is cut from the same corporate type cloth as sony is only they run somewhat worse then them...
The cu was a revamp much like EA however unlke EA sony didn't take the money and shut the game down and give people some of it back and some free time on another arcade style setup and smile sweetly. The game is still running and reparied and to my knowledge those that paid for the expansion got that refunded. Been down the what vets lost road before. People dont believe me but I lost nighing and neither did my friends.
so anyhow as you can see my criteria list is very short and there is a reason why.. lol
I have only one criteria as these companys operate the same way at this point and I have yet to find one that does not. That's the point and so i will refer you to my lengthy criteria list hehe
If they are secure my credit card info is safe then that is about all you can expect. Mayvbe one day this will change but as of right now that is the way this is.
Well lets not downplay it, they "revmped" the game twice in just over 6 months, they only refunded the expansion purchase to those that persued it, no ongoing gametime was ever refunded over the CU or the NGE, so as I said potentially you could have paid an anual sub in March 2005 and ended up being shafted twice AND still have 5 months worth of paid subscription after the NGE that SOE weren't willing to refund. Then there's no doubt people that took long term subs in Oct. 05, I mean "the CU is here to stay" there was a ranger revamp confirmed, there was the expansion with cool new CH loot.........Yes, game experience may change... yadda yadda yadda but since then even SOE have admitted it was an incomplete game, they basically swindled their entire playerbase during that time. Hell the NGE has only had any remote semblence of a finished product in the last year so they effectively had people paying to beta their fuck up for 2 whole years. Now I hate EA, really... I was a Westwood, Bullfrog and Origin fan and watched as EA bought them out and ripped the guts out of them one by one and destroyed their catalogues but still, nothing EA's done comes close to the complete and utter disregard that SOE have shown towards their customers.
For me its the other way around and this just goes down to what happened at any given time. Its like trying to compare two versions of something bad that happened. To me what you say is the same as was done with SWG. I didn't order the expansion and never asked for any refunds because it was not an issue for me. Some people felt jipped and asked for refunds they got their money back for the expansion. I quit just after the CU because my mcm was ruined, but then I wasn't actualy playing as the CU was implemented. I never got that I was ripped off feeling. I was annoyed and left. Maybe I simply dont get that passionate about these games I dont know, but they had a refund offer and those that asked for it got it. Gametime well I never pay ahead because video games are dynamically changing was it right or totaly ethical no, but as a consumer I guess I have learned to approach with caution and not pay for like 1+ years. If you look at it as far as games go now they change like the wind. I dont think that a stable unchanging game experience without huge nerfs etc is ever going to happen and when you look at the unruly class system and balancing it was a nerf waiting to happen. The NGE was basically a nerf and in all honesty with the complaints like those screaming that jedi should be obtainable and peopel screaming fraud I can't help but think that regarldess of what is being said people screaming about the proffs, the jedi problems that this did not influence what they did. I find it to be a strange coincidence that those who wanted jedi but could not get it screaming and pointing at the advertising on the box that they were being ripped off suddenly can have jedi after the nge as its now a proffession like any other.
Bottom line sony and EA and all those guys funcom are what they are. People will always scream no matter what they do. I doubt no matter what sony did that they would not have come under fire from someone. For me the game died before the CU even hit and I was just hanging around. I was not uncommon and the reason why they revamped the game. So for me what they are doing and what they did is actually an improvement
/shrug ( i cant really say that the original version was all that great as for me it was not.. it was a game which held my interest for maybe a year but it was a horrible grind so I dont feel ripped off and I know i'm not alone on that one)
Wow, that is a pretty incoherent rationalization of SOE screwing over thier customers. Your entire opinion seems based on you having such bad taste in entertainment that you enjoy the horrible game that SWG currently is. You simply dismiss what the folks involved in actually developing and implementing the changes that decimated the player population, because it contradicts your predetermined conclusion that SOE did nothing wrong, and if they did, LEC must have made them do it.
Who cares if SOE lied and ripped off their customers? As long as you're having fun playing the PoS that SWG currently is, that's all that matters. If someone else does care, just claim EA is worse because that makes it alright.
You come across as a very selfish and self-centered person.
really? oh?
See I was there and so were my friends we don't feel as you do. The reason this subcommunity exists today is due to the fact that SOME people feel as you do, but OTHERS do not.
So read it carefully as this is NOT self centered
1) I dont actualy think sony was that evil. I try to downplay it in order to extend some level of understanding on the subject
2) I play it as a game. The fun stops for me when something happens in the game to not make it fun any longer. If i pay ahead and I suddently stop playing a game (which is rarely) I dont go asking for a refund because they changed my WoW hunters abilities (true story that.. I had a hunter in WoW and they did a hunter "revamp" .. I no longer liked the game and left but had paid ahead by 3 months.. ) I read fine print.
3) The people on this forum turn a completely blind eye to the fact that LA holds all control on matters its their money, their IP they material hence they hold a good share of the responsibility
4) fishermage has been blown out of the water by other posters in this thread besides myself I'm just his favourite play thing
5) I stated my piece and what I think. I know its not possible to change anyones mind here especially fisher mages' and I"m not here to change minds.
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom. None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.
7) your right I dont agree with the way the handful of people carry on here because its unjustified when I have experienced THE EXACT SAME thing in the present and people like YOU are willing to turn a blind eye to it, sweep it under the rug and even pay money to them when the fabled kotor 3 is released
8) i'm a realist. The fact of the matter is as they say "shit happens" I stopped playing as well. I"m playing again with full knowledge of what is out there and what other companies offer. I also play with the realization that nothing is forever and unchanging and that if I do subscribe to the game that is being produced under EA's umbrella I will go in with EYES OPEN not shut tight and realize that they are no better and are in fact worse then sony, but they fit my minimum criteria of being capable of keeping my credit card info safe which unfrotunately due to corporate behaviour is all that I can expect and hope for!
So yeah I have been burned more then once and just as badly as sony customers. I dont see you extending that particular population any sympothy in fact I dont see you extending even an acknowledgement that this happens to others including myself in this thread. In your books you were "burned worse" then me! So have some kind of god given right to say what you do? and call others selfish when you can't even acknowledge the fact that someone in this thread has experienced the same thing with a company your about to do business with, but wait.. I'm not screaming loud enough.. Bottom line if you truly are going to be an EA customer the screaming that will be made if this forum is any indication will be 10 times worse then what we see here. Because that is what happens here.
/shrugs
I'm sorry for your loss, but its just a game.. just like the money I lost it was not that much and games are not forever, but one thing I can say for sony is that THEY DID NOT BUCKLE UNDER and shut servers leaving me without that game to play unlike EA did !
As for the vet thing.. Yes I created my first SWG character in August of 2003 and signed onto the forums for the first time a couple of months later. I too am a "vet". I know what they launched with and I know what went on. I know that the game still exists and that some people left and some people stayed. Funny that I was one that left....as my MCM was toast. So I experienced what you did with the exception of not buying ahead cause I know better and never pay 1 year in advance. Sony gave money back to those that felt they had been ripped off for the expansion. Since the game still existed and half these people were still logging and the fine print exsts they didn't refund the subscription money. I have taken my lumps in other games just like you have taken you lumps in this game. I can only feel so much sympathy for a population that does not know the meaning of the word "forgiveness" when it comes to one company, but it capapble of absolving any other company of wrondoings in the industry. You call people like me "selfish" and self centered. Yet the ego centric behaviour you are exhibiting right now is not better and has been shown in this thread. I told you I was ripped off by EA and you tried to justify their behaviour. I know why you did that but do you?
Please, do please demonstrate as a matter of review, exactly where I was "blown out of the water" by anyone in this (or any other) thread.
You are FAR from my favorite plaything; I find you dreadfully dull in fact. You just repeatedly make statements with questionable logic and truthvalue, and I feel obligated to call you on it, and ask you to prove you point -- as I am doing now.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..)
Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..)
Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, you can't. Thank you for your time.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Only if obee goes to the same trouble for me about you (no i lie i can't be bothered to indulge your needs that much..)
Also if im that dull there is always the option of ignoring me which is mostly what I do with you. It is after all only a forum filled with opinionated people period. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, you can't. Thank you for your time.
yes according to the church of fisher I can't.
One question then? why didn't you do the same to the others that said what I said including then a person who appears to be your friend? you completely ignored his remarks which backed up everything I said and only focused on me. Hence the "im fishers favourite plaything" . You ignored the other guy who emphatically stated that he does not blame sony but blames LA and that you can flame him all he likes about that but he knows what is. You didn't ask either of them for "evidence" that is why I ignore you. Lastly the last time you were asked for proof was by me to see if you would provide it. You did not you said something wishy washy like "its all over the board blah blah blah" and then another person asked for "proof" and you said the same thing again. You see for you the only person that needs to prove anything is other people but when it comes to you this is not so because of your your always right. Bottom line the answers to your queiries are in this thread, but you refused to acknowledge their existance and would rather start more arguments on what you feel is valid subject material for this thread etc. Fact is your just a guy who appears to hold himself above all other posters on this board who is very very careful at who he demands "evidence" from lest he do it to people who are his friends. Fact is you only have this issue with people who you hold zero trust, respect for. At this point I have figured you out and the only reason you go at me and not others in this thread is because of what you think of me and nothing more. Fact is I stopped paying attention to you and indulging you about a week back if you will notice when you start demanding evidence the conversation stops. I usualy say no and I ignore any further posts no matter how hard you stomp and keep spaming and asking in the thread I just ignore it and since this is about to errupt into another "no you didn't "yes you did" pissing contest this will be the last word to you again until you start talking like a regular person again.. lol
English, please?
EDIT: after deciphering that rambling as best I can, what the heck are you talking about? why are you taking this all so personally? If I hold myself above all others, how do I consider some to be my friends? Friends are equals. Now, which of thse so-called friends did I NOT differ with? Please, what the heck are you talking about?
Why do you keep holding these silly grudges from thread to thread? can you actually argue a point and stay on topic? If you want to discuss things that happened in another thread, how about actually sharing the specifics if you can, so I can reasonably answer your accusations?
That's the best I can answer your rambling. It merely raises more questions.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.
yeah he has its jsut not good enough for some people. It was good enough for me. I can recognize when a company makes a true effort to make things right its shown in what they are doing presently and what he has said.
Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.
I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked. Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again. He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough. I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.
But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.
yeah he has its jsut not good enough for some people. It was good enough for me. I can recognize when a company makes a true effort to make things right its shown in what they are doing presently and what he has said.
Depends on what you think the "mistake" is. He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.
So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again. Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch.
Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.
that will never happen and you know it
a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony. LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.
b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice. When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was. That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.
They said they didn't care if they lost customers over the NGE, so since they don't care if they lose money, they should have a few precu servers. Even if no one subscribed the gesture would go along way.
that will never happen and you know it
a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony. LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.
b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice. When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was. That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.
Actually, he is asking them to stop making the same mistake over and over again. They have already made the same mistake (although to a lesser extent) at least five times since the NGE. THAT is why they fail.
fishermage.blogspot.com
well it appears LA doesn't agree that those servers are necessary. YOu see your beef is with LA not Sony your complaining about the wrong company at this point in time.