Putting a harsh death penalty into a RvR game is complete garbage. Period. Why? - You cannot control your own death. It's as simple as that. You get focused by 10 guys and you're dead. What did you expect? EvE? A g ame where 90% of the fight is planning and 10% is actual in-fight-decisions? This game is WAR, it's about "beating the living snot out of each other", it's not about "ok C unit flank left distance 10 attack when A unit reaches stormpole" blah blah... This is NOT a FFA open PvP sandbox world. And I'm GLAD it isn't, dashing into a warzone wildly attacking people can be a darn lot of fun. So it's a zerg fest? Who cares, meaningful zerg (like RvR) are actually FUN! Meridion
You obviously have not been around the MMO block much. Have you ever played Shadowbane? The CS zergs made it impossible to play. I am not comparing the two but am just saying a Zerg is going to be a big turn off for many players who want tactical leadership.
You can actually see what I've been playing on the left side right under my avatar image, and I KNOW in some games zergs are no fun, in others they are...
Depends on how the game is set. In a fixed battleground scenario with a Capture-ground feeling to it and no death penalty, zergs can be great fun. In open PvP were pure numbers decide and there IS a death penalty, zergs are no fun.
I'm playing EvE at the moment so I really DO appreciate the tactical side of things, I just know dashing into battle in WAR will be a totally different type of PvP, but still fun. And after all, that's all that matters...
This often bothers me about games as well, I love having a serious death penalty so that the game is more serious and hardcore and people have to actually think before they act. However, with that said, I have been loving WARs way of the death penalty. In WAR you die so often that if you had any sort of of penalty other than a loss of time and negative buff it would be way too frusterating.
If you want a serious death penalty game you are going to have to wait for a skill based game to be blessed upon us. But WAR is definately worth playing, this coming from someone who enjoyed hardcore MMORPG such as Ultima Online.
To understand why the death penalty is the way it is and why it is effective you need to play the game. Some people may feel that, in RvR, just resurrecting a few seconds later is too light of a penalty, but it is plenty severe. In the time it takes to resurrect and run back to the fight, you have lost a lot of time and potentially a lot of ground. Charging in to a fight in RvR, dying, respawning, and doing it again, is not an effective tactic. It is much better to play strategically and stay alive.
Hmm... disappointing really. I thought they would model the death penalty after the one in DAOC. Yes, it had some consequences. Your gear took damage and eventually had to be repaired. (it wore out too, and had to be replaced).
You also lost stats when you died, which had to be restored by a visit to a healer. It was possible to die so many times you could no longer fight effectively, and then you had to pay a bunch of gold to the healer to restore it.)
Finally, when you had to run back, you really had to run back. In fact, there used to be portal system and you could find yourself stuck for 10 minutes waiting to even port back to the fight...then have to run to the battle. (this was a bit over the top actually)
But despite all that, many players did what others have said here, they'd throw themselves into the fray with no regards for survival. In fact, my character, the MInstrel could frequently survive a fight and I'd get yelled at by my group for not fighting to the death in the battle, which I thought was stupid.
So while I thought DAOC's PVP death penalty was a bit weak, overall I thought it was a decent balance of risk without too severe in terms of penalties.
So now you guys are saying Mythic threw all of that out the window and there's really no more penalty than one gets in WOW. Sigh.
I agree with the OP, WAR is really starting to sound like a game I'm not going to enjoy playing.
And like someone suggested earlier, I'll probably play something else.
Thank you, at least you understand the logic. The ones who are arguing the most about why we should STFU about penalty is the ones who are carebear type players who want instant action and instant rewards. A breed we will never stop and it will get worse in future MMO's where they just hand you everything. I like yourself want some sort of penalty and DAOC was awesome with RVR PVP balance. If you died in DAOC you had enough of a penalty and time sink it made for strategy and coordination all more important and team work. Which when you won you had so much energy and excitement of a big accomplishment you slept like a baby that night. In WAR we won't have that, because there will be thousands of players using the ZERG tactic in waves just to get the job done quickly.
who gives a fuck if you're a carebear, come on man get a grip. Calling yourself a hardcore gamer is not cool. I would rather be a carebear. Why should mythic make a game with features that a minority would like to see, that would be bad business if you ask me.
The no death penalty will just weed out the elitist assholes who think they're better than everyone else at games. If you really feel the need to prove yourself in a video game well then i feel sorry for you. Hardcore gamers, calling yourself hardcore is enough in itself to warrant a punch in the face.
Why do you want to label me because I disagree with you? I think that you have to have a good death penatly so that you can feel like you earned the rewards... Instead of them just handing you stuff without risk.
I never said I was better then anyone else but I am willing to bet that a game without a good death penatly will have a bigger group of bad players then a game with a good death penatly.
A Good death Penatly makes you learn your class, makes you learn what the other classes can do, makes you earn all the rewards you gain.
Again, why must you label me as an elitist or hardcore just because i disagree with WARs death penatly? Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on what I want in a game to have fun?
Seriously I am glad I am going to pass on this game if the response I recieved in this post are even close to the way the WAR community acts.
It is a shame, I have to agree. Kind of ruins the point of tactics when you have no worries when you die anyhow. Why would anyone want to play a healer or a tank in PvP, then? Let's all roll melee DPS classes since we really don't die anyhow but just get teleported 10 yds away when we are attacked at a certain point.
why do you want to worry in a game, you're supposed to be having fun not becoming paranoid around ever corner. You cant please everyone so just move on to some other game, its not worth crying about.
For a lot of us the fun is about having to be paranoid around every corner. Not to mention with less zergs you don't have to be paranoid around every corner because it happens less often.
And yeah, for a pvp game, zergs kind of ruin the point of any actual mindful pvp.
How can a game be fun with no risk? Without risk the reward is meanless. All I want is to fear death in the game enough to make me do everything in my power not to die... playing this game, I will be passing as I already posted. You all have fun enjoying your easy mode game with no risk.
I don't know about fearing death in a game but what I want is to have fun. Oh there are risk alright... in the overall grand scheme of things. If your side keep on losing it will affect the overall standing of your realm which leads to your capital being open to invasion by the enemy. If you capital is invaded and the enemy succeed in killing your leaders your capital will be open to be sacked by the enemy and your capital city will lose ranks... losing ranks means many of the dungeons/facilities found inside altdorf or inevitable city will become inaccessible until your city grows again. Your city will only grow if your side is doing well in battle (both pve and pvp).
It's like in the army.. if your battalion is doing well everyone is rewarded.. if not..well everyone suffers.
Don't make me laugh. I played EVE for three years myself, on and off, a game with pretty much the ultimate death penalty -- you blow up, you lose your ship, everything on it, and possibly your pilot pod. You'll get a token insurance payment worth likely 1/10 the cost of the ship and its modules, possibly less.
I'm fairly new to EVE, but can I tell you when a PvP'er was gunning me in low security area (I was on a peaceful mission) it scared the pu pu platter right out of me. I learned my lesson. Never order Chinese food before playing around in EVE's danger zone. I've never died in the game, but am working my way up to gain confidence and sustainable PvP status there.
i wish PvE had a harsher one but PvP really shouldnt have a death penalty in my opinion so except for the easy penalty for pve they made the right decision because i think you will be dieing alot more often than you are use to in an MMO
To say you will die more often then other MMOs is just stupid. WAR is not the first to PvP or RvR so dont talk out of your ass.
PvE and PvP should have the same penalty, if you die, you die period, it should hurt, it should make you fear dieing. You as a player should want to do everything in your power to advoid death... Ever Play EQ1, The good players were easy as hell to point out due to the Death penalty.
Before you all start going off the deep end on how EQ1's death penalty was nothing but a time sink remember the whole point of any MMO is a time sink, to get the player to pay to play longer is the goal after all.
No Death Penatly for PvP is crap, ruins any chance of WAR being fun for myself and gamers like me who want Risk back in our games.
No risk is worthless in MMOs. All you have to do with no death penalty is throw body after body at the enemy until you win or they leave. Pointless. Zerging will be the main tactic in any open World PvP/RvR fights.
EQ in the original game it was defined by risk vs reward, actions had consequences and those consequences made an impression if not encouraged you to do better. EQ required interpersonal skills, social interaction and cooperation. The game was group centric with interdependency making the players activities viable and meaningful. Now MMO's are all about the action and instant gratification. Basic psychology suggest that people feel more accomplished when they overcome adversity and garnish a greater appreciation for their efforts when it is earned.
People have become overtly time conscious to a fault. For some reason breaks in time are seen as miss opportunities than segmented space for personal reflection and contemplation. People wonder why kids have ADD, its not an pathology issue its a learned behavior. MMO's aren't creating generational technology they're manufacturing instant gratification.
This is well said and that is the reason I loved EQ1, yes I could still play but most of the people I enjoyed the game with have moved on and EQ1 will never be the same without them.
The first part of the above post is exactly why I loved EQ1.
The no death penalty will just weed out the elitist assholes who think they're better than everyone else at games. If you really feel the need to prove yourself in a video game well then i feel sorry for you. Hardcore gamers, calling yourself hardcore is enough in itself to warrant a punch in the face.
Why do you want to label me because I disagree with you? I think that you have to have a good death penatly so that you can feel like you earned the rewards... Instead of them just handing you stuff without risk.
I never said I was better then anyone else but I am willing to bet that a game without a good death penatly will have a bigger group of bad players then a game with a good death penatly.
A Good death Penatly makes you learn your class, makes you learn what the other classes can do, makes you earn all the rewards you gain.
Again, why must you label me as an elitist or hardcore just because i disagree with WARs death penatly? Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on what I want in a game to have fun?
Seriously I am glad I am going to pass on this game if the response I recieved in this post are even close to the way the WAR community acts.
Because you label people who disagree with you as carebears...just because i like a different game mechanic doesn't make me any less a player. I hope you find the game you are looking, i'm going to play war because there is nothing else out that is worth playing.
Death penalty in EvE is not harsh, it's cruel, at least if you don't have the right connections/corp to back you up financially, because after all it's a stock-brokers dreamworld. Money runs the whole game, no morale, no ethics, no laws, no religion, nothing stupid that interferes with the pure laws of a free market
No seriously, EvE is fun, but it's EvE, it's not comparable. if there was EvEs death penalty in WAR, the game would suck ****** **** ^^
it's funny when people point on everquest & perma death.. maby some people dont remember what some people did because there character permanently died, or what a person did to his friend because of a virtual sword in the past?
there is hopefully a reason why games that are suppost to be a hobby, don't have that stuff..
Everquest death penalty was very painful (before summoning in the guildhall) to the point of absolute frustration and not wanting to play. Often times I merely started over with back-up or newly purchased gear because my body was irrecoverable (even after paging an unhelpful GM when a game bug caused death). Now, it depends on whether you have a group/guild who is reliable. If you don't, that pick-up group left you behind to go into the heart of darkness to try to call your body back...which often led to dying again and again. Also, if there is one person in the group who is slightly off their mark, total wipe and you're penalized for their phone call or whatever it was that caused them to miss. Experience debt from a single death took weeks to recover. Personally, I would've preferred electrical shock. (Since then, Everquest has put in a lot of enhancements to ensure an easier recovery. Death has been nerfed to a World of Warcraft kind of level).
The terminology of death is a bit deceptive to be honest.
In WAR when you fall in battle you are taken back to the camp you were assigned and you get the chance to heal up. Think of warefare in general. When you got hurt you generally got taped back together and chucked back on the battlefield. Its much the same in WAR. You get hurt, heal up and back at it. Therefore death penalties so to speak are really nothing more then healing penalties.
Makes perfect sense to me. Personally I've had times in WAR where you were literally trying to just keep players on the field because one side was bashing there enemies so badly that they couldn't get healed and back in combat quick enough. Eventually one side lost. That constant rush of keeping the line is a BLAST! Reminds me alot of modern FPS games.
In EQ it felt like death had a impact but it was annoying because sometimes it meant you couldn't play. You literally were caught with your pants so far down you were disabled.
With the choice between frentic fun and pain. I pick fun
The no death penalty will just weed out the elitist assholes who think they're better than everyone else at games. If you really feel the need to prove yourself in a video game well then i feel sorry for you. Hardcore gamers, calling yourself hardcore is enough in itself to warrant a punch in the face.
Why do you want to label me because I disagree with you? I think that you have to have a good death penatly so that you can feel like you earned the rewards... Instead of them just handing you stuff without risk.
I never said I was better then anyone else but I am willing to bet that a game without a good death penatly will have a bigger group of bad players then a game with a good death penatly.
A Good death Penatly makes you learn your class, makes you learn what the other classes can do, makes you earn all the rewards you gain.
Again, why must you label me as an elitist or hardcore just because i disagree with WARs death penatly? Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on what I want in a game to have fun?
Seriously I am glad I am going to pass on this game if the response I recieved in this post are even close to the way the WAR community acts.
Because you label people who disagree with you as carebears...just because i like a different game mechanic doesn't make me any less a player. I hope you find the game you are looking, i'm going to play war because there is nothing else out that is worth playing.
Show me were I labeled anyone in this thread?
All I did in this thread was ask what the Death Penatly was, someone came along and answered me and I stated that I would passing on this game as would gamers like myself... were did I call anyone that disagrees with me a carebare? Were did I say WAR was a shitty game? Show me cause I never typed it.
If you are at all any representation of the community that is going to play WAR I am GLAD i am passing on this game.
The terminology of death is a bit deceptive to be honest. In WAR when you fall in battle you are taken back to the camp you were assigned and you get the chance to heal up. Think of warefare in general. When you got hurt you generally got taped back together and chucked back on the battlefield. Its much the same in WAR. You get hurt, heal up and back at it. Therefore death penalties so to speak are really nothing more then healing penalties. Makes perfect sense to me. Personally I've had times in WAR where you were literally trying to just keep players on the field because one side was bashing there enemies so badly that they couldn't get healed and back in combat quick enough. Eventually one side lost. That constant rush of keeping the line is a BLAST! Reminds me alot of modern FPS games. In EQ it felt like death had a impact but it was annoying because sometimes it meant you couldn't play. You literally were caught with your pants so far down you were disabled. With the choice between frentic fun and pain. I pick fun
See I disagree with you.. The Death Penatly in EQ help make that game fun for me... I felt like I earned everything I gained, Levels, gear and everything in between. It felt like I worked for it and because of that I enjoyed my 5 years in EQ.
What you people need to understand is what is fun for me does not mean its fun for you... the whole point of this thread was to find out what the Death Penatly was... I found out and simply said, I was going to pass on this game and any gamer like myself was going to pass as well but then all you fanbois jump in and flame me for having my own opinion...
I never said WAR would not be fun or a good game... I simply said that I will not enjoy WAR because of the lack of Death Penatly and I was going to pass on the game... WTF is wrong with that?
it's funny when people point on everquest & perma death.. maby some people dont remember what some people did because there character permanently died, or what a person did to his friend because of a virtual sword in the past? there is hopefully a reason why games that are suppost to be a hobby, don't have that stuff..
Whats funny is people like you who never played EQ1... Everquest never had Perma death.
Just because a few nut jobs did some stupid things in know way reflexs upon the rest of the player base.
That constant rush of keeping the line is a BLAST! Reminds me alot of modern FPS games.
Yatzee!! That's exactly what I was thinking. They've combined a fantatsy MMO with a FPS game...sort of like Planetside.
Let's hope it fairs better and hold players interests, because you may think you want to RVR non-stop, but the reality of it over the long haul might be a bit different.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I wonder how hard it is to create a system where players can scale their own risk/reward setting. If you crank the setting on your character as Fanatic you are set back a great deal if you die ( longer respawn, item degradation, stat debuff and exp loss), If you tone yourself to Cautious, you have the current setting of WAR as a penalty.
Rewards for Fanatic would be an increased loot table roll and influence/ reknown bonuses for RvR kills, (to a lesser extent for healers).
I wonder how hard it is to create a system where players can scale their own risk/reward setting. If you crank the setting on your character as Fanatic you are set back a great deal if you die ( longer respawn, item degradation, stat debuff and exp loss), If you tone yourself to Cautious, you have the current setting of WAR as a penalty. Rewards for Fanatic would be an increased loot table roll and influence/ reknown bonuses for RvR kills, (to a lesser extent for healers). Is that possible for todays games? Would you play WAR if they had such a system?
Brilliant! Good out of the box thinking. The more risk you take, the more bonus you get.
Bah, seems like when it comes to games all you hear is a bunch of 10 yr olds crying...
If you dont like it, quit and STFU and never come back
Can I get an "amen," Brothas and Sistas?
AAAA MEEENNNN!
Don't like it? Don't play. Problem solved. Plus....less whining juveniles for the adult population to have to deal with. I'm all good with that.
I have to laugh regarding all the "zomg noooes.....zerging will reign supreme" type comments. Uhm....it's a WAR. It's not lame instanced PvP battlegrounds. Zerging (what used to be called running in a huge group against the opposition in a massive swarm to seize their land, or w/e......"working with your team for one common objective") is what should be happening all the way around from both sides to push the battle forward on the lines of battle.
Unlike MOST MMOs where it's each man/woman for him/herself and "I don't give a shiiiite that that party member is dying" /runs on past without helping....."I just need to hurry to the end so I can get my new phat lewts epic welfare gearzzzz." Pfffft.
If any game APPEARS to have done PvP (RvR) right....it's WAR. Other games (with the exception of DAoC) have made it far too easy just to be a selfish pri** and not give a crap WHAT happens to your teammates. But then....that sort of selfish playstyle seems to be what the gradeschoolers and tweens LIKE. So....stay with whatever you're playing, and let the rest of us that want to work with each other.....play WAR.
i wish PvE had a harsher one but PvP really shouldnt have a death penalty in my opinion so except for the easy penalty for pve they made the right decision because i think you will be dieing alot more often than you are use to in an MMO
To say you will die more often then other MMOs is just stupid. WAR is not the first to PvP or RvR so dont talk out of your ass.
PvE and PvP should have the same penalty, if you die, you die period, it should hurt, it should make you fear dieing. You as a player should want to do everything in your power to advoid death... Ever Play EQ1, The good players were easy as hell to point out due to the Death penalty.
Before you all start going off the deep end on how EQ1's death penalty was nothing but a time sink remember the whole point of any MMO is a time sink, to get the player to pay to play longer is the goal after all.
No Death Penatly for PvP is crap, ruins any chance of WAR being fun for myself and gamers like me who want Risk back in our games.
No risk is worthless in MMOs. All you have to do with no death penalty is throw body after body at the enemy until you win or they leave. Pointless. Zerging will be the main tactic in any open World PvP/RvR fights.
First off want to point out you shouldnt be comparing games where PvP was not the main focus of the game to a game where RvR (PvP) is the main focus. You eliteists make me laugh. All a severe death penalty would do in a PvP focused game is destroy the game before it even got started. Running away like a pussy half way through the fight because you dont wanna die is a pathetic excuse for a player to call themself "good". You wanna prove your the best? There are ways to do it starting in tier4 I believe. Oh and no matter how elite you THINK you are you WILL die LOTS in WAR.
I also find it funny how people keep saying zerging is going to be the main tactic blah blah blah blah blah. How many times do the testers have to tell you zerging doesnt work for long. Maybe the first push but after that, game over for the zerg's vs. a tactical team of players. Hell the only "skill" a heavy death penalty causes is the skill to run like a little school girl. Yes I played harsh death penalty MMO's (Asherons Call-corpse looting and stat reduction that you had to do PvE to remove and it stacked). The best would fight it out regardless of the death penalty while the ones who only think they are good would run away crying if things didnt start well for them.
So talk all your eliteist BS you want. I will be killing and dieing in mass haveing a great time instead of crying that no game is comming out with hard DP (which if you havent figured out by now is a thing of the past and if thats all you judge a game on you may as well stop playing multi player games now).
Do you really need to name call? Does that help your point? Do you know me? Do you know I am an Eliteist? No you dont.
How can a game be fun with no risk? Without risk the reward is meanless. All I want is to fear death in the game enough to make me do everything in my power not to die...
This bullshit about not being in control is stupid, its a MMO dumb shit, its called an MMO because it has alot of other players.
Without a good death penatly the game is shallow, does not matter how much content it has, without a good death penatly their is not point in learning the in's and out's of your charater nor anyone elses..
If you die, respawn, run to fight, fight and repeat... no tactics at all, just keep throwing bodies at the enemy till you win or they leave.
Sorry I want to enjoy my game, I want to feel like I earned my reward and without a death penatly I cannot earn my reward.
WAR is on Easy mode and I dont want to play MMOs that are on easy mode, I tried a game like that once, I got bored quickly.
Last but not least, Dont worry, I will not be playing this game, I will be passing as I already posted. You all have fun enjoying your easy mode game with no risk.
Anyone else see the irony there lol?
Oh and saying a game is shallow without a stiff DP is about the most shallow line of thinking I have ever seen.
And lastly, I hope you find the kind of game your looking for. The MMO market has moved away from stiff DP's like it or not so I would reccomend you either go back to EQ1, maybe asherons call or get away from the MMO market and go play HC diablo.
There isn't much of a death penalty at all, but you have to look at the grander scheme of things. There is definitely risk vs reward in the game in terms of RvR. The other day on Tyrion server we had no T2 keeps under order control and we wanted to upgrade our equipment and have a keep of our own. In order to buy renown gear at higher tiers you need to control a keep and buy it from the keep merchants.
So we set out to form a warband and battled for a couple hours just to claim the keep, and we fought really hard because we really really wanted it that badly. Once the keep was claimed we also wanted to keep it under our command. So we defended it against several zergs and prevailed. If we had lost we would lose our footing in that area and possibly lose zone control which could potential lead to losing zone control in top tier. Plus we would of lost our only means for our realm to upgrade their rvr equipment.
Bah, seems like when it comes to games all you hear is a bunch of 10 yr olds crying...
If you dont like it, quit and STFU and never come back
Can I get an "amen," Brothas and Sistas?
AAAA MEEENNNN!
Don't like it? Don't play. Problem solved. Plus....less whining juveniles for the adult population to have to deal with. I'm all good with that.
I have to laugh regarding all the "zomg noooes.....zerging will reign supreme" type comments. Uhm....it's a WAR. It's not lame instanced PvP battlegrounds. Zerging (what used to be called running in a huge group against the opposition in a massive swarm to seize their land, or w/e......"working with your team for one common objective") is what should be happening all the way around from both sides to push the battle forward on the lines of battle.
Unlike MOST MMOs where it's each man/woman for him/herself and "I don't give a shiiiite that that party member is dying" /runs on past without helping....."I just need to hurry to the end so I can get my new phat lewts epic welfare gearzzzz." Pfffft.
If any game APPEARS to have done PvP (RvR) right....it's WAR. Other games (with the exception of DAoC) have made it far too easy just to be a selfish pri** and not give a crap WHAT happens to your teammates. But then....that sort of selfish playstyle seems to be what the gradeschoolers and tweens LIKE. So....stay with whatever you're playing, and let the rest of us that want to work with each other.....play WAR.
Yay, glad SOME people in mmorpg forums understand that we need less whining
But to add I wish there was just alittle more harsh of a penalty but I'm not willing to go and ocmplain about it. You guys may actually prefer it with all the sieges, you die and say you have like I dunno destroyed equip, then what? YOUR PISSED!
Asking a PvP community to not be selfish is akin to requesting the sun not to shine.
I seriously doubt the WAR community will get together, share a Coke, hold hands and sing about it.
A penalty will give incentive to stick together for survival. Zerging is the ultimate extreme and a redundant gridlock. There's got to be something in-between.
Because you label people who disagree with you as carebears...just because i like a different game mechanic doesn't make me any less a player. I hope you find the game you are looking, i'm going to play war because there is nothing else out that is worth playing.
Show me were I labeled anyone in this thread?
All I did in this thread was ask what the Death Penatly was, someone came along and answered me and I stated that I would passing on this game as would gamers like myself... were did I call anyone that disagrees with me a carebare? Were did I say WAR was a shitty game? Show me cause I never typed it.
If you are at all any representation of the community that is going to play WAR I am GLAD i am passing on this game.
Lets see. You said any game with no stiff DP is shallow. You called me a dumbshit. You said games like this produce bad players (telling people they suck at MMORPG's because of what they prefer).
Nice try, but you are insulting everyone that disagrees with you.
Comments
You obviously have not been around the MMO block much. Have you ever played Shadowbane? The CS zergs made it impossible to play. I am not comparing the two but am just saying a Zerg is going to be a big turn off for many players who want tactical leadership.
You can actually see what I've been playing on the left side right under my avatar image, and I KNOW in some games zergs are no fun, in others they are...
Depends on how the game is set. In a fixed battleground scenario with a Capture-ground feeling to it and no death penalty, zergs can be great fun. In open PvP were pure numbers decide and there IS a death penalty, zergs are no fun.
I'm playing EvE at the moment so I really DO appreciate the tactical side of things, I just know dashing into battle in WAR will be a totally different type of PvP, but still fun. And after all, that's all that matters...
Meridion
This often bothers me about games as well, I love having a serious death penalty so that the game is more serious and hardcore and people have to actually think before they act. However, with that said, I have been loving WARs way of the death penalty. In WAR you die so often that if you had any sort of of penalty other than a loss of time and negative buff it would be way too frusterating.
If you want a serious death penalty game you are going to have to wait for a skill based game to be blessed upon us. But WAR is definately worth playing, this coming from someone who enjoyed hardcore MMORPG such as Ultima Online.
Hmm... disappointing really. I thought they would model the death penalty after the one in DAOC. Yes, it had some consequences. Your gear took damage and eventually had to be repaired. (it wore out too, and had to be replaced).
You also lost stats when you died, which had to be restored by a visit to a healer. It was possible to die so many times you could no longer fight effectively, and then you had to pay a bunch of gold to the healer to restore it.)
Finally, when you had to run back, you really had to run back. In fact, there used to be portal system and you could find yourself stuck for 10 minutes waiting to even port back to the fight...then have to run to the battle. (this was a bit over the top actually)
But despite all that, many players did what others have said here, they'd throw themselves into the fray with no regards for survival. In fact, my character, the MInstrel could frequently survive a fight and I'd get yelled at by my group for not fighting to the death in the battle, which I thought was stupid.
So while I thought DAOC's PVP death penalty was a bit weak, overall I thought it was a decent balance of risk without too severe in terms of penalties.
So now you guys are saying Mythic threw all of that out the window and there's really no more penalty than one gets in WOW. Sigh.
I agree with the OP, WAR is really starting to sound like a game I'm not going to enjoy playing.
And like someone suggested earlier, I'll probably play something else.
Thank you, at least you understand the logic. The ones who are arguing the most about why we should STFU about penalty is the ones who are carebear type players who want instant action and instant rewards. A breed we will never stop and it will get worse in future MMO's where they just hand you everything. I like yourself want some sort of penalty and DAOC was awesome with RVR PVP balance. If you died in DAOC you had enough of a penalty and time sink it made for strategy and coordination all more important and team work. Which when you won you had so much energy and excitement of a big accomplishment you slept like a baby that night. In WAR we won't have that, because there will be thousands of players using the ZERG tactic in waves just to get the job done quickly.
who gives a fuck if you're a carebear, come on man get a grip. Calling yourself a hardcore gamer is not cool. I would rather be a carebear. Why should mythic make a game with features that a minority would like to see, that would be bad business if you ask me.
Why do you want to label me because I disagree with you? I think that you have to have a good death penatly so that you can feel like you earned the rewards... Instead of them just handing you stuff without risk.
I never said I was better then anyone else but I am willing to bet that a game without a good death penatly will have a bigger group of bad players then a game with a good death penatly.
A Good death Penatly makes you learn your class, makes you learn what the other classes can do, makes you earn all the rewards you gain.
Again, why must you label me as an elitist or hardcore just because i disagree with WARs death penatly? Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on what I want in a game to have fun?
Seriously I am glad I am going to pass on this game if the response I recieved in this post are even close to the way the WAR community acts.
Sooner or Later
why do you want to worry in a game, you're supposed to be having fun not becoming paranoid around ever corner. You cant please everyone so just move on to some other game, its not worth crying about.
For a lot of us the fun is about having to be paranoid around every corner. Not to mention with less zergs you don't have to be paranoid around every corner because it happens less often.
And yeah, for a pvp game, zergs kind of ruin the point of any actual mindful pvp.
I don't know about fearing death in a game but what I want is to have fun. Oh there are risk alright... in the overall grand scheme of things. If your side keep on losing it will affect the overall standing of your realm which leads to your capital being open to invasion by the enemy. If you capital is invaded and the enemy succeed in killing your leaders your capital will be open to be sacked by the enemy and your capital city will lose ranks... losing ranks means many of the dungeons/facilities found inside altdorf or inevitable city will become inaccessible until your city grows again. Your city will only grow if your side is doing well in battle (both pve and pvp).
It's like in the army.. if your battalion is doing well everyone is rewarded.. if not..well everyone suffers.
I'm fairly new to EVE, but can I tell you when a PvP'er was gunning me in low security area (I was on a peaceful mission) it scared the pu pu platter right out of me. I learned my lesson. Never order Chinese food before playing around in EVE's danger zone. I've never died in the game, but am working my way up to gain confidence and sustainable PvP status there.
What the...? RUN!!!!
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
To say you will die more often then other MMOs is just stupid. WAR is not the first to PvP or RvR so dont talk out of your ass.
PvE and PvP should have the same penalty, if you die, you die period, it should hurt, it should make you fear dieing. You as a player should want to do everything in your power to advoid death... Ever Play EQ1, The good players were easy as hell to point out due to the Death penalty.
Before you all start going off the deep end on how EQ1's death penalty was nothing but a time sink remember the whole point of any MMO is a time sink, to get the player to pay to play longer is the goal after all.
No Death Penatly for PvP is crap, ruins any chance of WAR being fun for myself and gamers like me who want Risk back in our games.
No risk is worthless in MMOs. All you have to do with no death penalty is throw body after body at the enemy until you win or they leave. Pointless. Zerging will be the main tactic in any open World PvP/RvR fights.
EQ in the original game it was defined by risk vs reward, actions had consequences and those consequences made an impression if not encouraged you to do better. EQ required interpersonal skills, social interaction and cooperation. The game was group centric with interdependency making the players activities viable and meaningful. Now MMO's are all about the action and instant gratification. Basic psychology suggest that people feel more accomplished when they overcome adversity and garnish a greater appreciation for their efforts when it is earned.
People have become overtly time conscious to a fault. For some reason breaks in time are seen as miss opportunities than segmented space for personal reflection and contemplation. People wonder why kids have ADD, its not an pathology issue its a learned behavior. MMO's aren't creating generational technology they're manufacturing instant gratification.
This is well said and that is the reason I loved EQ1, yes I could still play but most of the people I enjoyed the game with have moved on and EQ1 will never be the same without them.
The first part of the above post is exactly why I loved EQ1.
Sooner or Later
Why do you want to label me because I disagree with you? I think that you have to have a good death penatly so that you can feel like you earned the rewards... Instead of them just handing you stuff without risk.
I never said I was better then anyone else but I am willing to bet that a game without a good death penatly will have a bigger group of bad players then a game with a good death penatly.
A Good death Penatly makes you learn your class, makes you learn what the other classes can do, makes you earn all the rewards you gain.
Again, why must you label me as an elitist or hardcore just because i disagree with WARs death penatly? Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on what I want in a game to have fun?
Seriously I am glad I am going to pass on this game if the response I recieved in this post are even close to the way the WAR community acts.
Because you label people who disagree with you as carebears...just because i like a different game mechanic doesn't make me any less a player. I hope you find the game you are looking, i'm going to play war because there is nothing else out that is worth playing.
Death penalty in EvE is not harsh, it's cruel, at least if you don't have the right connections/corp to back you up financially, because after all it's a stock-brokers dreamworld. Money runs the whole game, no morale, no ethics, no laws, no religion, nothing stupid that interferes with the pure laws of a free market
No seriously, EvE is fun, but it's EvE, it's not comparable. if there was EvEs death penalty in WAR, the game would suck ****** **** ^^
Meridion
it's funny when people point on everquest & perma death.. maby some people dont remember what some people did because there character permanently died, or what a person did to his friend because of a virtual sword in the past?
there is hopefully a reason why games that are suppost to be a hobby, don't have that stuff..
Want to play: Lego Universe
Everquest death penalty was very painful (before summoning in the guildhall) to the point of absolute frustration and not wanting to play. Often times I merely started over with back-up or newly purchased gear because my body was irrecoverable (even after paging an unhelpful GM when a game bug caused death). Now, it depends on whether you have a group/guild who is reliable. If you don't, that pick-up group left you behind to go into the heart of darkness to try to call your body back...which often led to dying again and again. Also, if there is one person in the group who is slightly off their mark, total wipe and you're penalized for their phone call or whatever it was that caused them to miss. Experience debt from a single death took weeks to recover. Personally, I would've preferred electrical shock. (Since then, Everquest has put in a lot of enhancements to ensure an easier recovery. Death has been nerfed to a World of Warcraft kind of level).
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
The terminology of death is a bit deceptive to be honest.
In WAR when you fall in battle you are taken back to the camp you were assigned and you get the chance to heal up. Think of warefare in general. When you got hurt you generally got taped back together and chucked back on the battlefield. Its much the same in WAR. You get hurt, heal up and back at it. Therefore death penalties so to speak are really nothing more then healing penalties.
Makes perfect sense to me. Personally I've had times in WAR where you were literally trying to just keep players on the field because one side was bashing there enemies so badly that they couldn't get healed and back in combat quick enough. Eventually one side lost. That constant rush of keeping the line is a BLAST! Reminds me alot of modern FPS games.
In EQ it felt like death had a impact but it was annoying because sometimes it meant you couldn't play. You literally were caught with your pants so far down you were disabled.
With the choice between frentic fun and pain. I pick fun
Why do you want to label me because I disagree with you? I think that you have to have a good death penatly so that you can feel like you earned the rewards... Instead of them just handing you stuff without risk.
I never said I was better then anyone else but I am willing to bet that a game without a good death penatly will have a bigger group of bad players then a game with a good death penatly.
A Good death Penatly makes you learn your class, makes you learn what the other classes can do, makes you earn all the rewards you gain.
Again, why must you label me as an elitist or hardcore just because i disagree with WARs death penatly? Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on what I want in a game to have fun?
Seriously I am glad I am going to pass on this game if the response I recieved in this post are even close to the way the WAR community acts.
Because you label people who disagree with you as carebears...just because i like a different game mechanic doesn't make me any less a player. I hope you find the game you are looking, i'm going to play war because there is nothing else out that is worth playing.
Show me were I labeled anyone in this thread?
All I did in this thread was ask what the Death Penatly was, someone came along and answered me and I stated that I would passing on this game as would gamers like myself... were did I call anyone that disagrees with me a carebare? Were did I say WAR was a shitty game? Show me cause I never typed it.
If you are at all any representation of the community that is going to play WAR I am GLAD i am passing on this game.
Sooner or Later
See I disagree with you.. The Death Penatly in EQ help make that game fun for me... I felt like I earned everything I gained, Levels, gear and everything in between. It felt like I worked for it and because of that I enjoyed my 5 years in EQ.
What you people need to understand is what is fun for me does not mean its fun for you... the whole point of this thread was to find out what the Death Penatly was... I found out and simply said, I was going to pass on this game and any gamer like myself was going to pass as well but then all you fanbois jump in and flame me for having my own opinion...
I never said WAR would not be fun or a good game... I simply said that I will not enjoy WAR because of the lack of Death Penatly and I was going to pass on the game... WTF is wrong with that?
Sooner or Later
Whats funny is people like you who never played EQ1... Everquest never had Perma death.
Just because a few nut jobs did some stupid things in know way reflexs upon the rest of the player base.
Sooner or Later
Yatzee!! That's exactly what I was thinking. They've combined a fantatsy MMO with a FPS game...sort of like Planetside.
Let's hope it fairs better and hold players interests, because you may think you want to RVR non-stop, but the reality of it over the long haul might be a bit different.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I wonder how hard it is to create a system where players can scale their own risk/reward setting. If you crank the setting on your character as Fanatic you are set back a great deal if you die ( longer respawn, item degradation, stat debuff and exp loss), If you tone yourself to Cautious, you have the current setting of WAR as a penalty.
Rewards for Fanatic would be an increased loot table roll and influence/ reknown bonuses for RvR kills, (to a lesser extent for healers).
Is that possible for todays games?
Would you play WAR if they had such a system?
Brilliant! Good out of the box thinking. The more risk you take, the more bonus you get.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
Can I get an "amen," Brothas and Sistas?
AAAA MEEENNNN!
Don't like it? Don't play. Problem solved. Plus....less whining juveniles for the adult population to have to deal with. I'm all good with that.
I have to laugh regarding all the "zomg noooes.....zerging will reign supreme" type comments. Uhm....it's a WAR. It's not lame instanced PvP battlegrounds. Zerging (what used to be called running in a huge group against the opposition in a massive swarm to seize their land, or w/e......"working with your team for one common objective") is what should be happening all the way around from both sides to push the battle forward on the lines of battle.
Unlike MOST MMOs where it's each man/woman for him/herself and "I don't give a shiiiite that that party member is dying" /runs on past without helping....."I just need to hurry to the end so I can get my new phat lewts epic welfare gearzzzz." Pfffft.
If any game APPEARS to have done PvP (RvR) right....it's WAR. Other games (with the exception of DAoC) have made it far too easy just to be a selfish pri** and not give a crap WHAT happens to your teammates. But then....that sort of selfish playstyle seems to be what the gradeschoolers and tweens LIKE. So....stay with whatever you're playing, and let the rest of us that want to work with each other.....play WAR.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
To say you will die more often then other MMOs is just stupid. WAR is not the first to PvP or RvR so dont talk out of your ass.
PvE and PvP should have the same penalty, if you die, you die period, it should hurt, it should make you fear dieing. You as a player should want to do everything in your power to advoid death... Ever Play EQ1, The good players were easy as hell to point out due to the Death penalty.
Before you all start going off the deep end on how EQ1's death penalty was nothing but a time sink remember the whole point of any MMO is a time sink, to get the player to pay to play longer is the goal after all.
No Death Penatly for PvP is crap, ruins any chance of WAR being fun for myself and gamers like me who want Risk back in our games.
No risk is worthless in MMOs. All you have to do with no death penalty is throw body after body at the enemy until you win or they leave. Pointless. Zerging will be the main tactic in any open World PvP/RvR fights.
First off want to point out you shouldnt be comparing games where PvP was not the main focus of the game to a game where RvR (PvP) is the main focus. You eliteists make me laugh. All a severe death penalty would do in a PvP focused game is destroy the game before it even got started. Running away like a pussy half way through the fight because you dont wanna die is a pathetic excuse for a player to call themself "good". You wanna prove your the best? There are ways to do it starting in tier4 I believe. Oh and no matter how elite you THINK you are you WILL die LOTS in WAR.
I also find it funny how people keep saying zerging is going to be the main tactic blah blah blah blah blah. How many times do the testers have to tell you zerging doesnt work for long. Maybe the first push but after that, game over for the zerg's vs. a tactical team of players. Hell the only "skill" a heavy death penalty causes is the skill to run like a little school girl. Yes I played harsh death penalty MMO's (Asherons Call-corpse looting and stat reduction that you had to do PvE to remove and it stacked). The best would fight it out regardless of the death penalty while the ones who only think they are good would run away crying if things didnt start well for them.
So talk all your eliteist BS you want. I will be killing and dieing in mass haveing a great time instead of crying that no game is comming out with hard DP (which if you havent figured out by now is a thing of the past and if thats all you judge a game on you may as well stop playing multi player games now).
Do you really need to name call? Does that help your point? Do you know me? Do you know I am an Eliteist? No you dont.
How can a game be fun with no risk? Without risk the reward is meanless. All I want is to fear death in the game enough to make me do everything in my power not to die...
This bullshit about not being in control is stupid, its a MMO dumb shit, its called an MMO because it has alot of other players.
Without a good death penatly the game is shallow, does not matter how much content it has, without a good death penatly their is not point in learning the in's and out's of your charater nor anyone elses..
If you die, respawn, run to fight, fight and repeat... no tactics at all, just keep throwing bodies at the enemy till you win or they leave.
Sorry I want to enjoy my game, I want to feel like I earned my reward and without a death penatly I cannot earn my reward.
WAR is on Easy mode and I dont want to play MMOs that are on easy mode, I tried a game like that once, I got bored quickly.
Last but not least, Dont worry, I will not be playing this game, I will be passing as I already posted. You all have fun enjoying your easy mode game with no risk.
Anyone else see the irony there lol?
Oh and saying a game is shallow without a stiff DP is about the most shallow line of thinking I have ever seen.
And lastly, I hope you find the kind of game your looking for. The MMO market has moved away from stiff DP's like it or not so I would reccomend you either go back to EQ1, maybe asherons call or get away from the MMO market and go play HC diablo.
There isn't much of a death penalty at all, but you have to look at the grander scheme of things. There is definitely risk vs reward in the game in terms of RvR. The other day on Tyrion server we had no T2 keeps under order control and we wanted to upgrade our equipment and have a keep of our own. In order to buy renown gear at higher tiers you need to control a keep and buy it from the keep merchants.
So we set out to form a warband and battled for a couple hours just to claim the keep, and we fought really hard because we really really wanted it that badly. Once the keep was claimed we also wanted to keep it under our command. So we defended it against several zergs and prevailed. If we had lost we would lose our footing in that area and possibly lose zone control which could potential lead to losing zone control in top tier. Plus we would of lost our only means for our realm to upgrade their rvr equipment.
Can I get an "amen," Brothas and Sistas?
AAAA MEEENNNN!
Don't like it? Don't play. Problem solved. Plus....less whining juveniles for the adult population to have to deal with. I'm all good with that.
I have to laugh regarding all the "zomg noooes.....zerging will reign supreme" type comments. Uhm....it's a WAR. It's not lame instanced PvP battlegrounds. Zerging (what used to be called running in a huge group against the opposition in a massive swarm to seize their land, or w/e......"working with your team for one common objective") is what should be happening all the way around from both sides to push the battle forward on the lines of battle.
Unlike MOST MMOs where it's each man/woman for him/herself and "I don't give a shiiiite that that party member is dying" /runs on past without helping....."I just need to hurry to the end so I can get my new phat lewts epic welfare gearzzzz." Pfffft.
If any game APPEARS to have done PvP (RvR) right....it's WAR. Other games (with the exception of DAoC) have made it far too easy just to be a selfish pri** and not give a crap WHAT happens to your teammates. But then....that sort of selfish playstyle seems to be what the gradeschoolers and tweens LIKE. So....stay with whatever you're playing, and let the rest of us that want to work with each other.....play WAR.
Yay, glad SOME people in mmorpg forums understand that we need less whining
But to add I wish there was just alittle more harsh of a penalty but I'm not willing to go and ocmplain about it. You guys may actually prefer it with all the sieges, you die and say you have like I dunno destroyed equip, then what? YOUR PISSED!
Asking a PvP community to not be selfish is akin to requesting the sun not to shine.
I seriously doubt the WAR community will get together, share a Coke, hold hands and sing about it.
A penalty will give incentive to stick together for survival. Zerging is the ultimate extreme and a redundant gridlock. There's got to be something in-between.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
Because you label people who disagree with you as carebears...just because i like a different game mechanic doesn't make me any less a player. I hope you find the game you are looking, i'm going to play war because there is nothing else out that is worth playing.
Show me were I labeled anyone in this thread?
All I did in this thread was ask what the Death Penatly was, someone came along and answered me and I stated that I would passing on this game as would gamers like myself... were did I call anyone that disagrees with me a carebare? Were did I say WAR was a shitty game? Show me cause I never typed it.
If you are at all any representation of the community that is going to play WAR I am GLAD i am passing on this game.
Lets see. You said any game with no stiff DP is shallow. You called me a dumbshit. You said games like this produce bad players (telling people they suck at MMORPG's because of what they prefer).
Nice try, but you are insulting everyone that disagrees with you.