Yes I see what most vets do make up numbers, I actually went in game on that galaxie and used the tool and counted. I do not lie, really. Only people who do not have hard facts need to make up stat's to "make" their point. And the tool only counts players who are not on /anon, some people (mainly PvP'ers) still use that thinking the new tool would give away there exact location (it does not). So every result will be low because of that.
Does the new grouping tool not allow screenshots to be taken?
If you can login, why not go do the same method Gutboy just described and look for yourself?
What's the point in posting screenshots when the next claim will likely be they were photoshopped
Gutboy is trying to convince us that the server populations are healthy and even flourishing. I know that if I log on to just about any server it will be a ghost town. I (and others) have posted plenty of screenshots and videos of the game showing no players but we are always told that the players are spread out or hidden in instances. If that's true then it should be easy with the new grouping tool to show hundreds of people on at any given time. Are you saying that's an unreasonable assumption to make?
I'm sorry...were you unable to read what Gutboy wrote? He told you how he came to the number he posted and posted directions on how you can do the same.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:
"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."
He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff."
So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.
I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable.
I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
1.) Obraik told us that the card game could be considered an "Expansion" on this very board. LMAO
2.) Gutboy has lied about server populations for years now. Nothing new there. He NEVER has a screenshot handy to prove his claims. He simply makes up numbers and runs with it.
It's a strange affliction they share, it really is. They both claim not to WORK for SOE but they do more work to justify this game than any employee of SOE or LA. LucasArts has all but written this game off as an embarrassment they just want to shy away from. SOE is still pretending to care by throwing together their cookie-cutter instances and keeping the fanbots happy for a few weeks at a time.
Neither Obraik nor Guyboy has an ounce of credibility with 99% of the people on these message boards because all reasonable members KNOW they make the information up. Honestly, SWG is so dead at this point that it really isn't worth the trouble.
With all the new games coming out, especially the sandboxes, SWG will never top 10,000 active players again.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
No surprise that Reklaw likes or liked the game, he was a cool guy and so was his guild WSQ, I used to BH him, Cipo and Trill Butta all the time in the old days and catching them off guard then chatting after. But Tarq's community died over a year ago, it's too small and it's shrinking with transfers.
Yes I see what most vets do make up numbers, I actually went in game on that galaxie and used the tool and counted. I do not lie, really. Only people who do not have hard facts need to make up stat's to "make" their point. And the tool only counts players who are not on /anon, some people (mainly PvP'ers) still use that thinking the new tool would give away there exact location (it does not). So every result will be low because of that.
Does the new grouping tool not allow screenshots to be taken?
If you can login, why not go do the same method Gutboy just described and look for yourself?
What's the point in posting screenshots when the next claim will likely be they were photoshopped
Gutboy is trying to convince us that the server populations are healthy and even flourishing. I know that if I log on to just about any server it will be a ghost town. I (and others) have posted plenty of screenshots and videos of the game showing no players but we are always told that the players are spread out or hidden in instances. If that's true then it should be easy with the new grouping tool to show hundreds of people on at any given time. Are you saying that's an unreasonable assumption to make?
I'm sorry...were you unable to read what Gutboy wrote? He told you how he came to the number he posted and posted directions on how you can do the same.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:
"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."
He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff."
So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.
I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable.
I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
The amount of hate from you so-called "vets" on those that choose to play a video game is astounding. Talk about projecting your anger. It's not enough for you to be mad at SOE, but you choose to hate on your fellow gamer. Sad, and utterly pathetic.
I can't speak for all the vets but I certainly don't hate anybody. I feel sorry for people that are being deceived by SOE but I don't hate them.
Well, you just basically referred to everyone who still plays as "stupid." So maybe not hate (in YOUR case), but you still feel somehow smarter than them because you choose not to play it. Please explain to me how people are being "deceived" by SOE, as it stands, right now.
<Mod edit> You are playing in a gaming environment where the staff set to maintain and improve the overall gaming experience don't respect your time and efforts. It is a poor choice to engage with that sort of history and behavior an unappologitic SOE. Add in the current dev team is second rate at best. It's russian roulette playing a SOE game. Eventually you will get hit.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game: "The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..." He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well. I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable. I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game: "The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..." He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well. I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable. I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game: "The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..." He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well. I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable. I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.
So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game: "The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..." He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well. I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable. I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.
So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?
Well, yeah, obviously they effect combat. However, with their being equivilent alternatives to them outside of the TCG, there is no combat advantage.
The precident is more important than the actual specifics even when those events suck as as is the case here. This is just more of Smedleys velvet rope approach being put into practice.
Each new release of the cards games push the envelope more and more. Tell me what you could purchase with real cash for in game items a month ago? Nothing? What do you think it will be like in a year or two?
The precident is more important than the actual specifics even when those events suck as as is the case here. This is just more of Smedleys velvet rope approach being put into practice.
Each new release of the cards games push the envelope more and more. Tell me what you could purchase with real cash for in game items a month ago? Nothing? What do you think it will be like in a year or two?
And this is exactly where I think things will go!
This is just the first step. I think they're easing people into RMT's slowly so everyone's comfot level increases over time. I have no doubt that this exact same conversation will take place over the next year but with the ingame items having more and more relevency - and therefore much more appeal.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game: "The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..." He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well. I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable. I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.
So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?
Well, yeah, obviously they effect combat. However, with their being equivilent alternatives to them outside of the TCG, there is no combat advantage.
Thanks for the honest response Obraik. It's one thing to say that similar buffs are available as ingame content (your message), and it's quite another to say that they are just fluff and do not affect gameplay (message from other poster).
The fact remains that people are spending real dollars for a chance to score themselves a buff card from the Sony Online store. Their choice, yes, but the way it is set up (like a lottery) encourages them to spend more money than they might otherwise in an attempt to get the desired item. I still don't believe that this method of implementation is user friendly. I think it's very SOE profit friendly, which I wouldn't mind IF it was also a benefit to players, which it isn't.
Also, since SOE can alter their game mechanics at anytime (and have done repeatedly), the items paid for with real money can lose their value at anytime. Furthermore, similar buffs or items that are currently available in game, can be disabled, removed, or rendered harder to obtain, at any time at SOE's sole discretion. Again, this is not set up in a consumer friendly way. Also, I'm wondering if the buffs stack? If so, then people will get the ingame buff AND still be tempted to add to their buff by playing the SOE card game lottery.
Another issue I see is the downplaying of the roles of professions that provide stat buffs and things like vehicles. Ingame options stimulate player interaction, making for a more immersive MMO experience. Loot cards take away from player interaction, and place the interaction between the customer, SOE, and their Visa card, seriously. It's less immersive, and it costs more money. Again, not very consumer friendly, at all.
I also have to wonder if this new component to the game had any current player collaboration go into its development. For example, players were asking for their crafting characters to have a more meaningful role. Not too long ago, you posted about crafters having greater usefulness due to some recent changes. This seems to be going in the opposite direction. Did players ask for this, or is this another bright idea from the executive wing of SOE? Specifically, did players want loot cards made availabe via a lottery system? Would they prefer to buy speeders from SOE instead of other players?
I suppose this broadens the topic to credibility in general. With the introduction of loot cards, Is SOE more or less credible as a provider of an entertainment service that I feel good about using? In my mind, less, and I didn't believe that was actually possible given their record.
I think you may also see an impact in subscriptions from moves like this, to the negative. It seems like SOE gets the cash, while players lose it, and the value of their roles in the MMO. Maybe this is what all the talk about moving away from a subscription model will look like. Instead of reading debates about sub numbers, we may find ourselves debating whether or not subscriptions are meaningful. I imagine the new spin might look something like: "well subs may be down, but with our new loot card system, revenue is actually up." Hopefully, SOE will not find enough people to hook with this new approach, but you never know.
There is no doubt that there are too many servers that are hurting. I won't defend that. But take a moment to log into Starsider or Bria.
So SOE should get a pass just because they tricked players into forking over $50 to transfer to Starsider or Bria?
I never said they should get a pass. I am saying that the game is going in a good direction. Devs have said they are working on a solution to the low-population servers.
The server pop has been low for ooh the better part of three years you mean in a ll that time they could come up with this awesome trading card game but couldn't figure out how to get rid of all the dead servers
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Not to mention, apparently SOE allows AFK farming now, they see nothing wrong with it at all. So some of the people who may see online, arent even really there, yippeeee! SWG should be put to rest. Just end it, what a pathetic ending to what was truly a great game.
Has there ever been a greater fail by a MMO than what SOE did to SWG? Honest question.
Off the top of my head, let's see:
Tabula Rasa
Roma Victor
Vanguard
Hellgate London
And that Car Racing MMO, I forget the name that shut down a year after it launched.
None of those games you mentioned had such a powerful IP behind them so I'd argue this is still worse if this game was called anything other than Star Wars it would be curtains already.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
Seriously...
The servers have been dead for quite some time. Everyone KNOWS the world is round. Everyone KNOWS that the SWG servers are dead -- but you. What is the saddest part of al lthis is that you don't get paid by SOE for your efforts.
To invest so much time spinning PR for someone I would have sent a bill a long time ago.
First off Bria is not that full these days. Bloodfin and Starsider have more activity by a long shot. SWG needs server merges. Facts are fact. Anyone who has played the game since day 1 knows the score. This game is in desperate need of a merger and a collision middleware solution. the game looked better when previewed in 2002.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
And there's such a simple tool now provided by SOE that would allow you to prove me wrong. You can use the new LFG tool to show that there are hundreds of people logged on but for some reason you won't. Hmmm...I wonder why... I mean you don't even have to go planet to planet and do a /who now...
The funniest thing about your post? The last time I logged on to Intrepid I would have been thrilled to see six other people.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
Seriously...
The servers have been dead for quite some time. Everyone KNOWS the world is flat. Everyone KNOWS that the SWG servers are dead -- but you. What is the saddest part of al lthis is that you don't get paid by SOE for your efforts.
To invest so much time spinning PR for someone I would have sent a bill a long time ago.
Played SWG for about 2 1/2 but finally left after the NGE wiped out my old guild. Just got the fre month email so decided to see what was going in the game. Logged in (Kettemoor server), went back to my old houses and bunkers looked around at my stuff, then set out find some people. Not 1 person from friends list online. Literally travelled to every planet, counted 6 people that i found. 6!!!!!
Talked to some guy in game, and asked if wanted all my stuff as I wasnt gonna actually pay SOE to hang out with 6 other people. have houses full of stuff, Jtpack deeds, resources, etc. He said "No Thanks" this was his last day as well.
honestly, how much longer can they keep this game going?
This pretty much echoes my experience when I logged in to hand over all my stuff to a buddy of mine.
I don't care if you are a fan of the NGE or not you have to admit that there are significantly less people playing this game now than there was before the NGE.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Thanks for the honest response Obraik. It's one thing to say that similar buffs are available as ingame content (your message), and it's quite another to say that they are just fluff and do not affect gameplay (message from other poster). The fact remains that people are spending real dollars for a chance to score themselves a buff card from the Sony Online store. Their choice, yes, but the way it is set up (like a lottery) encourages them to spend more money than they might otherwise in an attempt to get the desired item. I still don't believe that this method of implementation is user friendly. I think it's very SOE profit friendly, which I wouldn't mind IF it was also a benefit to players, which it isn't. Also, since SOE can alter their game mechanics at anytime (and have done repeatedly), the items paid for with real money can lose their value at anytime. Furthermore, similar buffs or items that are currently available in game, can be disabled, removed, or rendered harder to obtain, at any time at SOE's sole discretion. Again, this is not set up in a consumer friendly way. Also, I'm wondering if the buffs stack? If so, then people will get the ingame buff AND still be tempted to add to their buff by playing the SOE card game lottery. Another issue I see is the downplaying of the roles of professions that provide stat buffs and things like vehicles. Ingame options stimulate player interaction, making for a more immersive MMO experience. Loot cards take away from player interaction, and place the interaction between the customer, SOE, and their Visa card, seriously. It's less immersive, and it costs more money. Again, not very consumer friendly, at all. I also have to wonder if this new component to the game had any current player collaboration go into its development. For example, players were asking for their crafting characters to have a more meaningful role. Not too long ago, you posted about crafters having greater usefulness due to some recent changes. This seems to be going in the opposite direction. Did players ask for this, or is this another bright idea from the executive wing of SOE? Specifically, did players want loot cards made availabe via a lottery system? Would they prefer to buy speeders from SOE instead of other players? I suppose this broadens the topic to credibility in general. With the introduction of loot cards, Is SOE more or less credible as a provider of an entertainment service that I feel good about using? In my mind, less, and I didn't believe that was actually possible given their record. I think you may also see an impact in subscriptions from moves like this, to the negative. It seems like SOE gets the cash, while players lose it, and the value of their roles in the MMO. Maybe this is what all the talk about moving away from a subscription model will look like. Instead of reading debates about sub numbers, we may find ourselves debating whether or not subscriptions are meaningful. I imagine the new spin might look something like: "well subs may be down, but with our new loot card system, revenue is actually up." Hopefully, SOE will not find enough people to hook with this new approach, but you never know.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
lol what? Law of averages mate, you buy 50 cards a month you're 10 times more likely to get what you want than sticking with the 5 freebies, SOE knows that, the players know that... that's how and why it'll make SOE money.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
Since they were willing to put combat buffs in the card game what makes you think weapons and armor won't be added later? Now that the card game is up and running it's going to be extremely cheap for them to add stuff...
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Comments
Does the new grouping tool not allow screenshots to be taken?
If you can login, why not go do the same method Gutboy just described and look for yourself?
What's the point in posting screenshots when the next claim will likely be they were photoshopped
Gutboy is trying to convince us that the server populations are healthy and even flourishing. I know that if I log on to just about any server it will be a ghost town. I (and others) have posted plenty of screenshots and videos of the game showing no players but we are always told that the players are spread out or hidden in instances. If that's true then it should be easy with the new grouping tool to show hundreds of people on at any given time. Are you saying that's an unreasonable assumption to make?
I'm sorry...were you unable to read what Gutboy wrote? He told you how he came to the number he posted and posted directions on how you can do the same.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:
"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."
He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff."
So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.
I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable.
I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Well this about sums up Gutboy and Obraik...
1.) Obraik told us that the card game could be considered an "Expansion" on this very board. LMAO
2.) Gutboy has lied about server populations for years now. Nothing new there. He NEVER has a screenshot handy to prove his claims. He simply makes up numbers and runs with it.
It's a strange affliction they share, it really is. They both claim not to WORK for SOE but they do more work to justify this game than any employee of SOE or LA. LucasArts has all but written this game off as an embarrassment they just want to shy away from. SOE is still pretending to care by throwing together their cookie-cutter instances and keeping the fanbots happy for a few weeks at a time.
Neither Obraik nor Guyboy has an ounce of credibility with 99% of the people on these message boards because all reasonable members KNOW they make the information up. Honestly, SWG is so dead at this point that it really isn't worth the trouble.
With all the new games coming out, especially the sandboxes, SWG will never top 10,000 active players again.
Tecmo Bowl.
Does the new grouping tool not allow screenshots to be taken?
If you can login, why not go do the same method Gutboy just described and look for yourself?
What's the point in posting screenshots when the next claim will likely be they were photoshopped
Gutboy is trying to convince us that the server populations are healthy and even flourishing. I know that if I log on to just about any server it will be a ghost town. I (and others) have posted plenty of screenshots and videos of the game showing no players but we are always told that the players are spread out or hidden in instances. If that's true then it should be easy with the new grouping tool to show hundreds of people on at any given time. Are you saying that's an unreasonable assumption to make?
I'm sorry...were you unable to read what Gutboy wrote? He told you how he came to the number he posted and posted directions on how you can do the same.
Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.
Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:
"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."
He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes. Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff."
So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.
I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime." It really is unbelievable.
I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw. He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me. It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
<Mod edit>
You are playing in a gaming environment where the staff set to maintain and improve the overall gaming experience don't respect your time and efforts. It is a poor choice to engage with that sort of history and behavior an unappologitic SOE.
Add in the current dev team is second rate at best. It's russian roulette playing a SOE game. Eventually you will get hit.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.
So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.
So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?
Well, yeah, obviously they effect combat. However, with their being equivilent alternatives to them outside of the TCG, there is no combat advantage.
The precident is more important than the actual specifics even when those events suck as as is the case here. This is just more of Smedleys velvet rope approach being put into practice.
Each new release of the cards games push the envelope more and more. Tell me what you could purchase with real cash for in game items a month ago? Nothing? What do you think it will be like in a year or two?
And this is exactly where I think things will go!
This is just the first step. I think they're easing people into RMT's slowly so everyone's comfot level increases over time. I have no doubt that this exact same conversation will take place over the next year but with the ingame items having more and more relevency - and therefore much more appeal.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together). So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...
How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?
I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.
I said the buff cards aren't a big deal
Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't. This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...
I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.
So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?
Well, yeah, obviously they effect combat. However, with their being equivilent alternatives to them outside of the TCG, there is no combat advantage.
Thanks for the honest response Obraik. It's one thing to say that similar buffs are available as ingame content (your message), and it's quite another to say that they are just fluff and do not affect gameplay (message from other poster).
The fact remains that people are spending real dollars for a chance to score themselves a buff card from the Sony Online store. Their choice, yes, but the way it is set up (like a lottery) encourages them to spend more money than they might otherwise in an attempt to get the desired item. I still don't believe that this method of implementation is user friendly. I think it's very SOE profit friendly, which I wouldn't mind IF it was also a benefit to players, which it isn't.
Also, since SOE can alter their game mechanics at anytime (and have done repeatedly), the items paid for with real money can lose their value at anytime. Furthermore, similar buffs or items that are currently available in game, can be disabled, removed, or rendered harder to obtain, at any time at SOE's sole discretion. Again, this is not set up in a consumer friendly way. Also, I'm wondering if the buffs stack? If so, then people will get the ingame buff AND still be tempted to add to their buff by playing the SOE card game lottery.
Another issue I see is the downplaying of the roles of professions that provide stat buffs and things like vehicles. Ingame options stimulate player interaction, making for a more immersive MMO experience. Loot cards take away from player interaction, and place the interaction between the customer, SOE, and their Visa card, seriously. It's less immersive, and it costs more money. Again, not very consumer friendly, at all.
I also have to wonder if this new component to the game had any current player collaboration go into its development. For example, players were asking for their crafting characters to have a more meaningful role. Not too long ago, you posted about crafters having greater usefulness due to some recent changes. This seems to be going in the opposite direction. Did players ask for this, or is this another bright idea from the executive wing of SOE? Specifically, did players want loot cards made availabe via a lottery system? Would they prefer to buy speeders from SOE instead of other players?
I suppose this broadens the topic to credibility in general. With the introduction of loot cards, Is SOE more or less credible as a provider of an entertainment service that I feel good about using? In my mind, less, and I didn't believe that was actually possible given their record.
I think you may also see an impact in subscriptions from moves like this, to the negative. It seems like SOE gets the cash, while players lose it, and the value of their roles in the MMO. Maybe this is what all the talk about moving away from a subscription model will look like. Instead of reading debates about sub numbers, we may find ourselves debating whether or not subscriptions are meaningful. I imagine the new spin might look something like: "well subs may be down, but with our new loot card system, revenue is actually up." Hopefully, SOE will not find enough people to hook with this new approach, but you never know.
So SOE should get a pass just because they tricked players into forking over $50 to transfer to Starsider or Bria?
I never said they should get a pass. I am saying that the game is going in a good direction. Devs have said they are working on a solution to the low-population servers.
The server pop has been low for ooh the better part of three years you mean in a ll that time they could come up with this awesome trading card game but couldn't figure out how to get rid of all the dead servers
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Off the top of my head, let's see:
Tabula Rasa
Roma Victor
Vanguard
Hellgate London
And that Car Racing MMO, I forget the name that shut down a year after it launched.
None of those games you mentioned had such a powerful IP behind them so I'd argue this is still worse if this game was called anything other than Star Wars it would be curtains already.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
Seriously...
The servers have been dead for quite some time. Everyone KNOWS the world is round. Everyone KNOWS that the SWG servers are dead -- but you. What is the saddest part of al lthis is that you don't get paid by SOE for your efforts.
To invest so much time spinning PR for someone I would have sent a bill a long time ago.
Tecmo Bowl.
First off Bria is not that full these days. Bloodfin and Starsider have more activity by a long shot. SWG needs server merges. Facts are fact. Anyone who has played the game since day 1 knows the score. This game is in desperate need of a merger and a collision middleware solution. the game looked better when previewed in 2002.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
And there's such a simple tool now provided by SOE that would allow you to prove me wrong. You can use the new LFG tool to show that there are hundreds of people logged on but for some reason you won't. Hmmm...I wonder why... I mean you don't even have to go planet to planet and do a /who now...
The funniest thing about your post? The last time I logged on to Intrepid I would have been thrilled to see six other people.
Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy. You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong?
I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.
You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?
Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.
All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.
I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.
I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.
Seriously...
The servers have been dead for quite some time. Everyone KNOWS the world is flat. Everyone KNOWS that the SWG servers are dead -- but you. What is the saddest part of al lthis is that you don't get paid by SOE for your efforts.
To invest so much time spinning PR for someone I would have sent a bill a long time ago.
Heh, that says it all really
This pretty much echoes my experience when I logged in to hand over all my stuff to a buddy of mine.
I don't care if you are a fan of the NGE or not you have to admit that there are significantly less people playing this game now than there was before the NGE.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
lol what? Law of averages mate, you buy 50 cards a month you're 10 times more likely to get what you want than sticking with the 5 freebies, SOE knows that, the players know that... that's how and why it'll make SOE money.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
Since they were willing to put combat buffs in the card game what makes you think weapons and armor won't be added later? Now that the card game is up and running it's going to be extremely cheap for them to add stuff...
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.