You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month.
Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.
Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
I have to agree with this poster. These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade.
Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."
I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status. This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.
I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned?
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month.
Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.
Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.
I think another poster pretty much pointed out some of the important differences between playing the lottery and being patient.
It seems that you're right in saying the booster pack cards can be traded. This makes them more enticing. Also, just the possibility of getting them now will be enticing.
However, some people may choose to wait for a loot card that they would like. However, while they're patiently waiting for a certain card to maybe be handed to them someday, the meter is running...
The way the system is designed, it increases motivation to give SOE more cash either way, for things that could have been implemented into the game in ways that are more enjoyable for players, promote more player interaction, and are already covered by the cost of their subscription. This way, people will pay more, in some cases for nothing but frustration.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month.
Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.
Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.
The fact that certain silly people have spent US$100+ to get loot cards and end up with no loot cards at all, yet others got some of the more sought after loots (like the Podracer and Airspeeder) through their free packs.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
I have to agree with this poster. These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade.
Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."
I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status. This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.
I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned?
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
I have to agree with this poster. These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade.
Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."
I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status. This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.
I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned?
No, the buffs don't stack.
Buffs don't stack, +1 for SOE.
People enticed to pay real money for a chance to get desirable loot -1 (or more I suppose depending on how offensive you find it).
RMT loot that does affect gameplay -1.
SOE defenders (not you Obraik) posting that the RMT loot does not affect gameplay -1.
Crafters cut out of making new vehicles for fellow players, and player interaction replaced by interaction between a player and the Sony Online store -1.
I'm glad that the buffs don't stack, truly. I still think the new loot items could have been implemented in a much more consumer-friendly manner.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
There's only ever been two vehicles that've been available in schematic form from content within the game, which is the AV-21 and the Jetpack. The AV is still the fastest multipassenger vehicle in the game and the Jetpack is the fastest vehicle for getting around on Mustafar.
I don't remember Nightsisters dropping "highly valued clothing" outside of the stat loot clothing they drop now or the NS bicep (which was a bug...) - the clothing they drop now is used by crafters to make into Powerbits that are used by crafters to make into various attachments/powerups.
The loot cards can be obtained by paying nothing more then your usual monthly subscription.
I am not going to try and bash you on the head into my thinking (at least in this specific post I am writing now).
I only ask here that having read my resonse as to why it is not like "gum," would you at least concede one point. That it is not like gum. Forget the third point I made about gambling. Just concede it is not like "gum" based on my first two counter points.
You can like the game. Cool with me. I am here for dicussion on its merits. Not because it is associated with SWG. This could be "Hello Kitty Online" and its repective TCG here.
Whether you concede or not TIA.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
There's only ever been two vehicles that've been available in schematic form from content within the game, which is the AV-21 and the Jetpack. The AV is still the fastest multipassenger vehicle in the game and the Jetpack is the fastest vehicle for getting around on Mustafar.
I don't remember Nightsisters dropping "highly valued clothing" outside of the stat loot clothing they drop now or the NS bicep (which was a bug...) - the clothing they drop now is used by crafters to make into Powerbits that are used by crafters to make into various attachments/powerups.
The loot cards can be obtained by paying nothing more then your usual monthly subscription.
Yes, it was the AV-21 that I'm referring to. The content you needed to do to obtain this was some of the funnest ever designed in my view. People were very excited to get the schematic as loot, and it promoted crafting and player interaction. This was extremely player-friendly, and is my preferred method of implementing things like vehicles. The nightsister costume piece was a rare, decorative, bicep guard that preceded the NGE loot drops you're referring to. The NGE loot drops were another example of a shift away from crafting and player interaction. Combat players no longer interacted with traders for gear, and vendors and malls stood unused as armour pieces with combat mods began dropping out of many different NPCs. Many of these traders/crafters then left the game for good, since their role in the game was essentially nullified. Combat player that enjoyed the immersion of interacting with traders, like myself, went with them, if we hadn't already decided to leave for other reasons like our profession being deleted.
It seems that you can implement new features in ways that add to the game's content as part of the subscription fee, or you can charge people extra money for these features, or further down this road you can charge people for the chance of obtaining new features. I prefer the first model, and really dislike the last. Also, the first model promotes player interaction, whereas the second and final models move further from this.
The evolution of SWG seems to have people paying more for less, and has them interacting with each other less ingame. For an MMO, to me, this is movement in exactly the wrong direction.
P.S. Remember, I'm not out to discredit SWG as an MMO, and I have no agenda to see it shut down. My agenda, which I've always been open about, is to have SWG as a functional, consumer-friendly MMO for the online gaming community to enjoy. When camps were restored to the game, for example, I was very excited, and was glad to give some positive feedback. This promoted player interaction, role-play and immersion. I'm critical of the loot cards because as a particular feature they seem to be going in the opposite direction.
Obraik, I am not going to try and bash you on the head into my thinking (at least in this specific post I am writing now). I only ask here that having read my resonse as to why it is not like "gum," would you at least concede one point. That it is not like gum. Forget the third point I made about gambling. Just concede it is not like "gum" based on my first two counter points. You can like the game. Cool with me. I am here for dicussion on its merits. Not because it is associated with SWG. This could be "Hello Kitty Online" and its repective TCG here. Whether you concede or not TIA.
Gum probably wasn't the best example...the review posted in the other thread was a better example with describing them like vouchers slipped in random packs.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
There's only ever been two vehicles that've been available in schematic form from content within the game, which is the AV-21 and the Jetpack. The AV is still the fastest multipassenger vehicle in the game and the Jetpack is the fastest vehicle for getting around on Mustafar.
I don't remember Nightsisters dropping "highly valued clothing" outside of the stat loot clothing they drop now or the NS bicep (which was a bug...) - the clothing they drop now is used by crafters to make into Powerbits that are used by crafters to make into various attachments/powerups.
The loot cards can be obtained by paying nothing more then your usual monthly subscription.
Yes, it was the AV-21 that I'm referring to. The content you needed to do to obtain this was some of the funnest ever designed in my view. People were very excited to get the schematic as loot, and it promoted crafting and player interaction. This was extremely player-friendly, and is my preferred method of implementing things like vehicles. The nightsister costume piece was a rare, decorative, bicep guard that preceded the NGE loot drops you're referring to. The NGE loot drops were another example of a shift away from crafting and player interaction. Combat players no longer interacted with traders for gear, and vendors and malls stood unused as armour pieces with combat mods began dropping out of many different NPCs. Many of these traders/crafters then left the game for good, since their role in the game was essentially nullified. Combat player that enjoyed the immersion of interacting with traders, like myself, went with them, if we hadn't already decided to leave for other reasons like our profession being deleted.
It seems that you can implement new features in ways that add to the game's content as part of the subscription fee, or you can charge people extra money for these features, or further down this road you can charge people for the chance of obtaining new features. I prefer the first model, and really dislike the last. Also, the first model promotes player interaction, whereas the second and final models move further from this.
The evolution of SWG seems to have people paying more for less, and has them interacting with each other less ingame. For an MMO, to me, this is movement in exactly the wrong direction.
P.S. Remember, I'm not out to discredit SWG as an MMO, and I have no agenda to see it shut down. My agenda, which I've always been open about, is to have SWG as a functional, consumer-friendly MMO for the online gaming community to enjoy. When camps were restored to the game, for example, I was very excited, and was glad to give some positive feedback. This promoted player interaction, role-play and immersion. I'm critical of the loot cards because as a particular feature they seem to be going in the opposite direction.
The AV-21 and the content involved in getting it still exists today. They still sell for a healthy price too, Jetpacks even more.
You seem to be a little out of the loop on the current clothing drops. On their own, they're not much use to a combatant, however as I mentioned, they're a core requirement in the RE system used by crafters. There is quite a healthy combatant -> crafter interaction revolving around these items.
You also seem to keep ignoring that you don't have to pay any RL money to get these loot items.
You also seem to keep ignoring that you don't have to pay any RL money to get these loot items.
Um, that is precisely his point, Obraik. No RL money at all involved in obtaining them. Just luck on an in-game loot drop.
Unlike the obviously RMT inspired card game loot cards. Where you DO have to pay RL money to have any reasonable chance to beat the randominzed odds to get them.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
You also seem to keep ignoring that you don't have to pay any RL money to get these loot items.
Um, that is precisely his point, Obraik. No RL money at all involved in obtaining them. Just luck on an in-game loot drop.
Unlike the obviously RMT inspired card game loot cards. Where you DO have to pay RL money to have any reasonable chance to beat the randominzed odds to get them.
I would like to go even further (this is the post where I try to bash you on the head to get you to my way of thinking, although I don't expect it to work).
I will use an analogy.
1. One month of sub time in SWG = one night stay at hotel.
2. The TCG = blackjack (from now on BJ)
3. The podracer loot card reward = money won at BJ as a reward.
4. The nightly stay "free" $20 BJ play coupon = "free" TCG card pack given monthly for SWG sub.
OK so you decide you want to spend three days in Las Vegas. Not to gamble mind you. You have heard of all the shows, roller coasters, and dining they have from the Travel Channel. You heard the Luxor was nice so you go to their website and see in the reservation area a promo of free $20 BJ coupon for each night you stay. You think "wow, free BJ what a deal!" You book your room and head off to Vegas.
After arriving at the hotel you check in, receive your coupon, and dump your bags in your room. You rush down casino level for lunch to experience some of the dining Vegas has to offer. As you walk through the casino to get lunch you see BJ tables and everyone there is having a really good time. You only noticed them because you have that "free" BJ coupon in your pocket. You decide to use it because a "free" BJ never hurt anyone.
As you sit down you place the coupon on the table in the betting ring, as they aren't going to change it to chips you can just get up with and go cash out. No it almost seems as if they want you to play for some reason. You are dealt cards and you stand on 18 and the dealer busts with 24. YOU WON!!! How exciting. But you are not there to gamble so you take your now "free" $40 in chips and cash them out. Instead of a burger you get the surf and turf platter, ON THE HOUSE you think to yourself. You spend the day doing whatever other than gambling. You are a winner.
The next day you see another coupon slid under your door for another "free" $20 BJ. You say awsome because yesterday you were a winner. You hit the casino and spot a table with people with large stacks of chips.This is a hot table. You sit and do as before but this time the dealer has 20 to your 19. You lose. You see another player had made BJ and won. You pause and think well I'm up $40 from yesterday. I'll play that $40 and if I lose I haven't lost anything anyway. You lose it. Then it occurs to you that forty went to lunch the day before. I should win my money back. Besides others here are winning big. After rationalising it you pull a Cnote and get more chips. Not really gambling enough in you life to know a good bet or at least minimize loss you continue to play BJ incorrectly and swiftly lose your money. Frustrated you leave. But it nags at you all day.
Since the loss of money you didn't intend to lose or rather the not winning of money you intended to win, nothing else is giving you full enjoyment. You are distracted by not getting what you think you should. Later you try again with $200 to win back your losses but again the cards were not in your favor. You give up and write it off.
The next morning you see another coupon. You decide that since you wrote off the events of the day before, it no longer matters. So it couldn't hurt to play for free, win or lose I'll walk away you tell yourself. You play, this time you win a hand. Cool you are a winner again. My luck has changed. Maybe while I'm hot I can quickly win back my losses. $200 from your wallet lands next to your winnings. You win cool. I'm almost where I was at when I started. One more win and I will be way ahead. You let the bet ride and you lose. From here you may call it quits and move on or you may keep going to get the big win to find you can no longer afford six months of house payments.
The point is this. SOE is not giving you those free card packs monthly because they like or appreciate you as a customer. They give them for the same reasons casinos give BJ coupons. It is to keep you interested in getting the big win, the uber loot card for an uber in game item. The pod racer a person may desperately want is only available in game from these loot cards. Even if a small few wins them for "free," most will not. The most who won't see them, get jealous, and resolve the fact that the most likely way to get one is to buy more card packs for the added chance of winning one.
Just like the tourist that gets a "free" Bj roll sees the people around win, never sees the other people lose, gets jealous of their successes, is emotionally attached to the win i.e money i.e. podracer, and will start bleeding money to the table for it. There are people in this game that are going to pay to gamble for the loot card of their choice because every one they see in game their mind will say if they can win it so can I. But they are too impatient for the monthly packs to come out or lose faith because the last two months yielded nothing and feel they must take matters into their hands.
The moment anyone pays to receive a reward given randomly after they pay. THEY ARE GAMBLING. You may be satisfied waiting monthly for a card pack, others won't be. Just like you may be satified with the $20 BJ coupon win or lose and won't add more from your pocket. Others will. The casinos know it. SOE knows it.
As pointed out in another thread these card packs are all virtual and are intangible. You can't let them sit in a closet and play it again in ten years for nostalgia. This TCG is tied into SWG so tightly they act as coupons in game. If SWG ever shuts down for whatever reason, so will this game. Especially if all the TCG's revenue comes from SWG players willing to gamble on loot cards dropping. You won't even get to have the cards in your hands to feel in the real world and play again.
This is the worst kind of scam. RMT is bad enough becuase the virtual item can diappear if the game shuts down or if a new card is made making it obsulete. This is a RM(G) that can end in the same result. Except in RMT an item that costs $10 costs $10. Here you can spend and spend waitng for random chance to hit.
At least in Vegas there is a Gaming Commision to regulate the casinos. If the casino cheats or changes rules/odds without notifying the public they can have there license pulled. Here, SOE has no oversight. They can change the droprate anytime. They can make it near impossible to get and have people pay them for it.
Enough /rantOff
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
On a side note: I still find it shocking that people actually PAY to play SWG. It is amazing how low our standards have become as consumers when garbage like this still has more than 1 person willing to play it...
You also seem to keep ignoring that you don't have to pay any RL money to get these loot items.
Um, that is precisely his point, Obraik. No RL money at all involved in obtaining them. Just luck on an in-game loot drop.
Unlike the obviously RMT inspired card game loot cards. Where you DO have to pay RL money to have any reasonable chance to beat the randominzed odds to get them.
I would like to go even further (this is the post where I try to bash you on the head to get you to my way of thinking, although I don't expect it to work).
I will use an analogy.
1. One month of sub time in SWG = one night stay at hotel.
2. The TCG = blackjack (from now on BJ)
3. The podracer loot card reward = money won at BJ as a reward.
4. The nightly stay "free" $20 BJ play coupon = "free" TCG card pack given monthly for SWG sub.
OK so you decide you want to spend three days in Las Vegas. Not to gamble mind you. You have heard of all the shows, roller coasters, and dining they have from the Travel Channel. You heard the Luxor was nice so you go to their website and see in the reservation area a promo of free $20 BJ coupon for each night you stay. You think "wow, free BJ what a deal!" You book your room and head off to Vegas.
After arriving at the hotel you check in, receive your coupon, and dump your bags in your room. You rush down casino level for lunch to experience some of the dining Vegas has to offer. As you walk through the casino to get lunch you see BJ tables and everyone there is having a really good time. You only noticed them because you have that "free" BJ coupon in your pocket. You decide to use it because a "free" BJ never hurt anyone.
As you sit down you place the coupon on the table in the betting ring, as they aren't going to change it to chips you can just get up with and go cash out. No it almost seems as if they want you to play for some reason. You are dealt cards and you stand on 18 and the dealer busts with 24. YOU WON!!! How exciting. But you are not there to gamble so you take your now "free" $40 in chips and cash them out. Instead of a burger you get the surf and turf platter, ON THE HOUSE you think to yourself. You spend the day doing whatever other than gambling. You are a winner.
The next day you see another coupon slid under your door for another "free" $20 BJ. You say awsome because yesterday you were a winner. You hit the casino and spot a table with people with large stacks of chips.This is a hot table. You sit and do as before but this time the dealer has 20 to your 19. You lose. You see another player had made BJ and won. You pause and think well I'm up $40 from yesterday. I'll play that $40 and if I lose I haven't lost anything anyway. You lose it. Then it occurs to you that forty went to lunch the day before. I should win my money back. Besides others here are winning big. After rationalising it you pull a Cnote and get more chips. Not really gambling enough in you life to know a good bet or at least minimize loss you continue to play BJ incorrectly and swiftly lose your money. Frustrated you leave. But it nags at you all day.
Since the loss of money you didn't intend to lose or rather the not winning of money you intended to win, nothing else is giving you full enjoyment. You are distracted by not getting what you think you should. Later you try again with $200 to win back your losses but again the cards were not in your favor. You give up and write it off.
The next morning you see another coupon. You decide that since you wrote off the events of the day before, it no longer matters. So it couldn't hurt to play for free, win or lose I'll walk away you tell yourself. You play, this time you win a hand. Cool you are a winner again. My luck has changed. Maybe while I'm hot I can quickly win back my losses. $200 from your wallet lands next to your winnings. You win cool. I'm almost where I was at when I started. One more win and I will be way ahead. You let the bet ride and you lose. From here you may call it quits and move on or you may keep going to get the big win to find you can no longer afford six months of house payments.
The point is this. SOE is not giving you those free card packs monthly because they like or appreciate you as a customer. They give them for the same reasons casinos give BJ coupons. It is to keep you interested in getting the big win, the uber loot card for an uber in game item. The pod racer a person may desperately want is only available in game from these loot cards. Even if a small few wins them for "free," most will not. The most who won't see them, get jealous, and resolve the fact that the most likely way to get one is to buy more card packs for the added chance of winning one.
Just like the tourist that gets a "free" Bj roll sees the people around win, never sees the other people lose, gets jealous of their successes, is emotionally attached to the win i.e money i.e. podracer, and will start bleeding money to the table for it. There are people in this game that are going to pay to gamble for the loot card of their choice because every one they see in game their mind will say if they can win it so can I. But they are too impatient for the monthly packs to come out or lose faith because the last two months yielded nothing and feel they must take matters into their hands.
The moment anyone pays to receive a reward given randomly after they pay. THEY ARE GAMBLING. You may be satisfied waiting monthly for a card pack, others won't be. Just like you may be satified with the $20 BJ coupon win or lose and won't add more from your pocket. Others will. The casinos know it. SOE knows it.
As pointed out in another thread these card packs are all virtual and are intangible. You can't let them sit in a closet and play it again in ten years for nostalgia. This TCG is tied into SWG so tightly they act as coupons in game. If SWG ever shuts down for whatever reason, so will this game. Especially if all the TCG's revenue comes from SWG players willing to gamble on loot cards dropping. You won't even get to have the cards in your hands to feel in the real world and play again.
This is the worst kind of scam. RMT is bad enough becuase the virtual item can diappear if the game shuts down or if a new card is made making it obsulete. This is a RM(G) that can end in the same result. Except in RMT an item that costs $10 costs $10. Here you can spend and spend waitng for random chance to hit.
At least in Vegas there is a Gaming Commision to regulate the casinos. If the casino cheats or changes rules/odds without notifying the public they can have there license pulled. Here, SOE has no oversight. They can change the droprate anytime. They can make it near impossible to get and have people pay them for it.
Enough /rantOff
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is exactly what I've been trying to point out. I don't know if you just communicate it better, or if some people don't want to understand.
The "free" loot cards work in exactly the same way as the blackjack coupon. They serve to entice people to gamble for a chance to get the reward sooner or in tradeable form.
Also for those that would have called it quits because of bugs, low populations or what have you, some may be enticed to stay and pay subscription fees for the chance to get the "free" card they're hoping for.
Also, regarding Obraik's comments. I'm not ignoring that some monthly cards are free. I've described the loot cards as enticing people to pay more than they would otherwise, not forcing them to. If that doesn't make sense, please see the blackjack coupon example again; that is exactly what I'm talking about.
I've also never denied that there are still some opportunities for players to interact. I've just said, accurately, that these opportunities have been reduced by SOE's changes to core game systems.
Even with the RE system, the game used to have many more interdependent professions with a crafting based economy. New loot schematics now would have further increased interaction, and could have been included in the service provided for the subscription fee. SOE chose to implement a gambling system instead of this other method that was the norm in the early stages of the game.
I acknowledge that free "coupons" are provided as part of the gambling system, but this doesn't change the fact that a gambling system has been introduced, and that players are enticed to participate by its design. It also doesn't change the fact that the gambling system is, unlike other "official" gambling venues, completed unregulated.
P.S. Thanks again GrandAm. If anyone doesn't understand your very clear example, I'll conclude that it isn't because they can't, it's because they won't.
I understand that the people against the card game think that people can't think for themselfs and are compelled to purchase additional booster packs to get "an advantage" over other players.
Because I know that whenever I see a sith speeder or Podracer I feel some urge to spend hundreds of dollars to get a chance to be with the cool school crowd........................................
I understand that the people against the card game think that people can't think for themselfs and are compelled to purchase additional booster packs to get "an advantage" over other players. Because I know that whenever I see a sith speeder or Podracer I feel some urge to spend hundreds of dollars to get a chance to be with the cool school crowd........................................
Well that's the idea...now go out and give SOE more of your hard earned money!
I understand that the people against the card game think that people can't think for themselfs and are compelled to purchase additional booster packs to get "an advantage" over other players. Because I know that whenever I see a sith speeder or Podracer I feel some urge to spend hundreds of dollars to get a chance to be with the cool school crowd........................................
Well that's the idea...now go out and give SOE more of your hard earned money!
It does seem to be the design, I agree. However, most people in my experience won't fall for a scam like this, if they see it coming. I have to think that's why SOE marketters are trying so hard to hide the gambling element connected with the loot cards. I have great confidence that informed consumers will make wise decisions.
However, as with other gambling opportunities, there will be a few that have a weakness. We all have them in one way or another. For these few, the design of the loot card game will be especially enticing. Some have already reported losing hundreds.
These two paragraphs taken together are what I'm really saying. I have to say that the other poster's attempt to paraphrase my position just ended up twisting the meaning rather badly.
This is a critique of a new game system that seems much more $OE friendly than it is player friendly, not a criticism of players, at all.
I understand that the people against the card game think that people can't think for themselfs and are compelled to purchase additional booster packs to get "an advantage" over other players. Because I know that whenever I see a sith speeder or Podracer I feel some urge to spend hundreds of dollars to get a chance to be with the cool school crowd........................................
Well that's the idea...now go out and give SOE more of your hard earned money!
It does seem to be the design, I agree. However, most people in my experience won't fall for a scam like this, if they see it coming. I have to think that's why SOE marketters are trying so hard to hide the gambling element connected with the loot cards. I have great confidence that informed consumers will make wise decisions.
However, as with other gambling opportunities, there will be a few that have a weakness. We all have them in one way or another. For these few, the design of the loot card game will be especially enticing. Some have already reported losing hundreds.
These two paragraphs taken together are what I'm really saying. I have to say that the other poster's attempt to paraphrase my position just ended up twisting the meaning rather badly.
This is a critique of a new game system that seems much more $OE friendly than it is player friendly, not a criticism of players, at all.
First off ArcAngel in response to your response to the response of someone else's response to Oraik's response...yeeshh...where I used BJ as an analogy. You are welcome, welcome, welcome.
Gutboy, please don't misunderstand. I don't support the way this card game is implemented, true. But even in this form I don't want people to not enjoy it. Life is about finding joy. If you or anyone else enjoys this TCG and SWG please do so. If it's fun for you, I say keep doing it. I don't think it is a waste of your time or money to do so. And contrary to your statements about people involved with this game(s) can't think for themselves. You are wrong, I think most every person that plays or supports this game can and do think for themselves. The only thing here is you have a different opinion than mine. I respect that and your opinion. I am only here discuss share why my opinion differs or is the same as someone else's.
Just because there is a gambling element does't by default mean it is evil. Fact is almost everything we do is a gamble in some way shape or form. You gamble evey time you drive your car that a drunk driver doesn't hit you. Same with eating at the "Roach Coach" that you won't get food poisoning. Buying a "pets.com" stock share in 1999. The only real issue I have is with potential abuses. I see mainly two.
First abuse is a minor without clear understanding of the concepts of gambling uses their parents credit card information already logged into Station's database and burns up a crazy insano charge. This could result in many things as a negative. The least being the kid is punished by the parents not allowing the SWG sub any more. At worst the parent recognises the relationship this system has to gambling and brings this to what ever governing body is willing to listen.
Second and most disturbing for potential abuse is this turns out to be really successful and generates mass profits for SOE. This is bad because other game companies will follow it. Soon the only way to get the tools ncessary to be successful in any game will be to wait for "free" packs to give that tool or spend the money "optionaly" to buy extra packs to increase the RANDOM chance of receiving the item.
Recognizing this potentional is IMO something all MMORPG players should do as consumers. If these abuses happen it affects even supporters of SWG in a negative way. Which is...SWG is not going to be here forever. If this practice persists and gains popularity buy producers whatever game you may want to play may use it. Instead of paying a flat rate and every one is on equal footing. You will be competing with people that are willing to spend more on a gamble. They may win the first time. You may have to buy six card packs to win that tool to compete with. The same tool that you paid six times as much for in RL money than the other guy. Again this is on a future game, not the present SWG.
You don't have to agree with anything I wrote here or before. I respect your opinion and you. I hope you feel the same.
Also Gutboy I noticed in your response it seems that people criticizing the TCG meant I and others felt the current player base can't think for themselves. Again couldn't be further from the truth at least from me. I also noticed that my argument of it being a gambling system was not directly disagreed with. Could you please reread my posts and for the sake of good discussion state whether or not you feel there is a gambling system in this TCG in relation to its impact on SWG. If you feel there is none can you at least understand why I do based on what I have written?
Thanks.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
As I recall, in the beginning of SWG they told us that we could become Jedi, when actually we couldn't yet.
So what's to stop them from doing the same type of thing with the cards. Maybe they have a highly sought after loot card that they forget to make one month. What if SOE 'stacks the deck' against the players? And how would we ever even know, without spending tons of money.
I think they need to be regulated just like other gambling institutions.
Atleast if they had a SWG item shop, you could just spend a buck or two to get what you wanted.
Comments
Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.
Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
I have to agree with this poster. These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade.
Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."
I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status. This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.
I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned?
Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.
Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.
I think another poster pretty much pointed out some of the important differences between playing the lottery and being patient.
It seems that you're right in saying the booster pack cards can be traded. This makes them more enticing. Also, just the possibility of getting them now will be enticing.
However, some people may choose to wait for a loot card that they would like. However, while they're patiently waiting for a certain card to maybe be handed to them someday, the meter is running...
The way the system is designed, it increases motivation to give SOE more cash either way, for things that could have been implemented into the game in ways that are more enjoyable for players, promote more player interaction, and are already covered by the cost of their subscription. This way, people will pay more, in some cases for nothing but frustration.
Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.
Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.
The fact that certain silly people have spent US$100+ to get loot cards and end up with no loot cards at all, yet others got some of the more sought after loots (like the Podracer and Airspeeder) through their free packs.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
I have to agree with this poster. These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade.
Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."
I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status. This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.
I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned?
No, the buffs don't stack.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
I have to agree with this poster. These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade.
Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."
I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status. This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.
I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned?
No, the buffs don't stack.
Buffs don't stack, +1 for SOE.
People enticed to pay real money for a chance to get desirable loot -1 (or more I suppose depending on how offensive you find it).
RMT loot that does affect gameplay -1.
SOE defenders (not you Obraik) posting that the RMT loot does not affect gameplay -1.
Crafters cut out of making new vehicles for fellow players, and player interaction replaced by interaction between a player and the Sony Online store -1.
I'm glad that the buffs don't stack, truly. I still think the new loot items could have been implemented in a much more consumer-friendly manner.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
There's only ever been two vehicles that've been available in schematic form from content within the game, which is the AV-21 and the Jetpack. The AV is still the fastest multipassenger vehicle in the game and the Jetpack is the fastest vehicle for getting around on Mustafar.
I don't remember Nightsisters dropping "highly valued clothing" outside of the stat loot clothing they drop now or the NS bicep (which was a bug...) - the clothing they drop now is used by crafters to make into Powerbits that are used by crafters to make into various attachments/powerups.
The loot cards can be obtained by paying nothing more then your usual monthly subscription.
Obraik,
I am not going to try and bash you on the head into my thinking (at least in this specific post I am writing now).
I only ask here that having read my resonse as to why it is not like "gum," would you at least concede one point. That it is not like gum. Forget the third point I made about gambling. Just concede it is not like "gum" based on my first two counter points.
You can like the game. Cool with me. I am here for dicussion on its merits. Not because it is associated with SWG. This could be "Hello Kitty Online" and its repective TCG here.
Whether you concede or not TIA.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
There's only ever been two vehicles that've been available in schematic form from content within the game, which is the AV-21 and the Jetpack. The AV is still the fastest multipassenger vehicle in the game and the Jetpack is the fastest vehicle for getting around on Mustafar.
I don't remember Nightsisters dropping "highly valued clothing" outside of the stat loot clothing they drop now or the NS bicep (which was a bug...) - the clothing they drop now is used by crafters to make into Powerbits that are used by crafters to make into various attachments/powerups.
The loot cards can be obtained by paying nothing more then your usual monthly subscription.
Yes, it was the AV-21 that I'm referring to. The content you needed to do to obtain this was some of the funnest ever designed in my view. People were very excited to get the schematic as loot, and it promoted crafting and player interaction. This was extremely player-friendly, and is my preferred method of implementing things like vehicles. The nightsister costume piece was a rare, decorative, bicep guard that preceded the NGE loot drops you're referring to. The NGE loot drops were another example of a shift away from crafting and player interaction. Combat players no longer interacted with traders for gear, and vendors and malls stood unused as armour pieces with combat mods began dropping out of many different NPCs. Many of these traders/crafters then left the game for good, since their role in the game was essentially nullified. Combat player that enjoyed the immersion of interacting with traders, like myself, went with them, if we hadn't already decided to leave for other reasons like our profession being deleted.
It seems that you can implement new features in ways that add to the game's content as part of the subscription fee, or you can charge people extra money for these features, or further down this road you can charge people for the chance of obtaining new features. I prefer the first model, and really dislike the last. Also, the first model promotes player interaction, whereas the second and final models move further from this.
The evolution of SWG seems to have people paying more for less, and has them interacting with each other less ingame. For an MMO, to me, this is movement in exactly the wrong direction.
P.S. Remember, I'm not out to discredit SWG as an MMO, and I have no agenda to see it shut down. My agenda, which I've always been open about, is to have SWG as a functional, consumer-friendly MMO for the online gaming community to enjoy. When camps were restored to the game, for example, I was very excited, and was glad to give some positive feedback. This promoted player interaction, role-play and immersion. I'm critical of the loot cards because as a particular feature they seem to be going in the opposite direction.
Gum probably wasn't the best example...the review posted in the other thread was a better example with describing them like vouchers slipped in random packs.
You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot. If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra. The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks.
The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting. There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink. There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.
1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.
If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade. The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.
2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".
And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs. This is statistics.
3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks." Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.
It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck. Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.
4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.
Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about. Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.
I won't comment on the other points you made although I could, only on the one involving "gum."
1. The free gum comes in evey pack. They don't statisically space it out at on average say...1/1000 will receive gum. It is not a randomly given item.
2. If I open a Pokeman card game pack and start playing Pokeman on my N64 it is not going to give my charmander toon four fireballs launched instead of three at my opponent if I start chewing the gum. If I shove the stick of gum into the memory slot of my Wii it is not going to give me a previously unseen Pokeman toon called Poopflinger (guess what his powers are based on).
3. Since the card game I assume does not require a SWG sub to play the card game I can understand its purpose as a dynamic to and for the card game. But since it can redeem an item in SWG from a "third party card game" they are in there to sell items ingame to SWG players. As far as it being a random thing and therefore ok. All this means is you are playing a slot machine to get it. Some will sit at a slot machine the first time and win a small jackpot. Others can spend a lot of money and sit for hours and win nothing on the same machine. Sure one guy spent $1 and win $20 while another lost $200. There are going to be those that spend a lot of money on this and will not get the item. SOE not only has people paying for items their monthly subs should cover, they have them gambling for it. Only the house will win in the long run.
It is not the same as gum.
I searched for the gum reference for a couple minutes before I found it lol. I agree completely, this is not the same as gum, and SOE does indeed have people gambling for items that would previously have been included in their monthly subscription fee (e.g. combat buffs, clothing, and new vehicles). No matter how this gets spun, I don't see a way around this simple reality.
Actually, the new items given from the TCG are all items that have been items you can only get by paying extra (for expansions/new box sets). Vehicles, for example, are commonly given out as rewards for buying new packs and the more potent buffs usually come from expansion packs that you have to pay for. The last unique clothing peice to be added to the game came from Mustafar.
There have been times in the game's history when people would complete content to obtain schematics that they would then use to craft sought after vehicles. There have also been times when highly valued clothes items were obtained via completing ingame content. The Corvette and nightsisters used to offer these kinds of things. This was part of the subscription fee. It promoted use of ingame content and player interaction. I liked all of this. It was good for players and good for the game in my view.
Later in the game's history there was a shift away from this model. Vehicles became perks for buying or pre-ordering an expansion. This shift favoured less player/player interaction and getting less content for your subscription fee. I see the loot cards as an unfortunate evolution of this shift. It takes another, much larger step away from subscription-based content that would encourage player interaction.
You have to look pretty far back into the game's history to be aware of what I'm talking about, but this is the era of the game that people often hold up as the best of times, despite its faults.
There's only ever been two vehicles that've been available in schematic form from content within the game, which is the AV-21 and the Jetpack. The AV is still the fastest multipassenger vehicle in the game and the Jetpack is the fastest vehicle for getting around on Mustafar.
I don't remember Nightsisters dropping "highly valued clothing" outside of the stat loot clothing they drop now or the NS bicep (which was a bug...) - the clothing they drop now is used by crafters to make into Powerbits that are used by crafters to make into various attachments/powerups.
The loot cards can be obtained by paying nothing more then your usual monthly subscription.
Yes, it was the AV-21 that I'm referring to. The content you needed to do to obtain this was some of the funnest ever designed in my view. People were very excited to get the schematic as loot, and it promoted crafting and player interaction. This was extremely player-friendly, and is my preferred method of implementing things like vehicles. The nightsister costume piece was a rare, decorative, bicep guard that preceded the NGE loot drops you're referring to. The NGE loot drops were another example of a shift away from crafting and player interaction. Combat players no longer interacted with traders for gear, and vendors and malls stood unused as armour pieces with combat mods began dropping out of many different NPCs. Many of these traders/crafters then left the game for good, since their role in the game was essentially nullified. Combat player that enjoyed the immersion of interacting with traders, like myself, went with them, if we hadn't already decided to leave for other reasons like our profession being deleted.
It seems that you can implement new features in ways that add to the game's content as part of the subscription fee, or you can charge people extra money for these features, or further down this road you can charge people for the chance of obtaining new features. I prefer the first model, and really dislike the last. Also, the first model promotes player interaction, whereas the second and final models move further from this.
The evolution of SWG seems to have people paying more for less, and has them interacting with each other less ingame. For an MMO, to me, this is movement in exactly the wrong direction.
P.S. Remember, I'm not out to discredit SWG as an MMO, and I have no agenda to see it shut down. My agenda, which I've always been open about, is to have SWG as a functional, consumer-friendly MMO for the online gaming community to enjoy. When camps were restored to the game, for example, I was very excited, and was glad to give some positive feedback. This promoted player interaction, role-play and immersion. I'm critical of the loot cards because as a particular feature they seem to be going in the opposite direction.
The AV-21 and the content involved in getting it still exists today. They still sell for a healthy price too, Jetpacks even more.
You seem to be a little out of the loop on the current clothing drops. On their own, they're not much use to a combatant, however as I mentioned, they're a core requirement in the RE system used by crafters. There is quite a healthy combatant -> crafter interaction revolving around these items.
You also seem to keep ignoring that you don't have to pay any RL money to get these loot items.
Um, that is precisely his point, Obraik. No RL money at all involved in obtaining them. Just luck on an in-game loot drop.
Unlike the obviously RMT inspired card game loot cards. Where you DO have to pay RL money to have any reasonable chance to beat the randominzed odds to get them.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Um, that is precisely his point, Obraik. No RL money at all involved in obtaining them. Just luck on an in-game loot drop.
Unlike the obviously RMT inspired card game loot cards. Where you DO have to pay RL money to have any reasonable chance to beat the randominzed odds to get them.
I would like to go even further (this is the post where I try to bash you on the head to get you to my way of thinking, although I don't expect it to work).
I will use an analogy.
1. One month of sub time in SWG = one night stay at hotel.
2. The TCG = blackjack (from now on BJ)
3. The podracer loot card reward = money won at BJ as a reward.
4. The nightly stay "free" $20 BJ play coupon = "free" TCG card pack given monthly for SWG sub.
OK so you decide you want to spend three days in Las Vegas. Not to gamble mind you. You have heard of all the shows, roller coasters, and dining they have from the Travel Channel. You heard the Luxor was nice so you go to their website and see in the reservation area a promo of free $20 BJ coupon for each night you stay. You think "wow, free BJ what a deal!" You book your room and head off to Vegas.
After arriving at the hotel you check in, receive your coupon, and dump your bags in your room. You rush down casino level for lunch to experience some of the dining Vegas has to offer. As you walk through the casino to get lunch you see BJ tables and everyone there is having a really good time. You only noticed them because you have that "free" BJ coupon in your pocket. You decide to use it because a "free" BJ never hurt anyone.
As you sit down you place the coupon on the table in the betting ring, as they aren't going to change it to chips you can just get up with and go cash out. No it almost seems as if they want you to play for some reason. You are dealt cards and you stand on 18 and the dealer busts with 24. YOU WON!!! How exciting. But you are not there to gamble so you take your now "free" $40 in chips and cash them out. Instead of a burger you get the surf and turf platter, ON THE HOUSE you think to yourself. You spend the day doing whatever other than gambling. You are a winner.
The next day you see another coupon slid under your door for another "free" $20 BJ. You say awsome because yesterday you were a winner. You hit the casino and spot a table with people with large stacks of chips.This is a hot table. You sit and do as before but this time the dealer has 20 to your 19. You lose. You see another player had made BJ and won. You pause and think well I'm up $40 from yesterday. I'll play that $40 and if I lose I haven't lost anything anyway. You lose it. Then it occurs to you that forty went to lunch the day before. I should win my money back. Besides others here are winning big. After rationalising it you pull a Cnote and get more chips. Not really gambling enough in you life to know a good bet or at least minimize loss you continue to play BJ incorrectly and swiftly lose your money. Frustrated you leave. But it nags at you all day.
Since the loss of money you didn't intend to lose or rather the not winning of money you intended to win, nothing else is giving you full enjoyment. You are distracted by not getting what you think you should. Later you try again with $200 to win back your losses but again the cards were not in your favor. You give up and write it off.
The next morning you see another coupon. You decide that since you wrote off the events of the day before, it no longer matters. So it couldn't hurt to play for free, win or lose I'll walk away you tell yourself. You play, this time you win a hand. Cool you are a winner again. My luck has changed. Maybe while I'm hot I can quickly win back my losses. $200 from your wallet lands next to your winnings. You win cool. I'm almost where I was at when I started. One more win and I will be way ahead. You let the bet ride and you lose. From here you may call it quits and move on or you may keep going to get the big win to find you can no longer afford six months of house payments.
The point is this. SOE is not giving you those free card packs monthly because they like or appreciate you as a customer. They give them for the same reasons casinos give BJ coupons. It is to keep you interested in getting the big win, the uber loot card for an uber in game item. The pod racer a person may desperately want is only available in game from these loot cards. Even if a small few wins them for "free," most will not. The most who won't see them, get jealous, and resolve the fact that the most likely way to get one is to buy more card packs for the added chance of winning one.
Just like the tourist that gets a "free" Bj roll sees the people around win, never sees the other people lose, gets jealous of their successes, is emotionally attached to the win i.e money i.e. podracer, and will start bleeding money to the table for it. There are people in this game that are going to pay to gamble for the loot card of their choice because every one they see in game their mind will say if they can win it so can I. But they are too impatient for the monthly packs to come out or lose faith because the last two months yielded nothing and feel they must take matters into their hands.
The moment anyone pays to receive a reward given randomly after they pay. THEY ARE GAMBLING. You may be satisfied waiting monthly for a card pack, others won't be. Just like you may be satified with the $20 BJ coupon win or lose and won't add more from your pocket. Others will. The casinos know it. SOE knows it.
As pointed out in another thread these card packs are all virtual and are intangible. You can't let them sit in a closet and play it again in ten years for nostalgia. This TCG is tied into SWG so tightly they act as coupons in game. If SWG ever shuts down for whatever reason, so will this game. Especially if all the TCG's revenue comes from SWG players willing to gamble on loot cards dropping. You won't even get to have the cards in your hands to feel in the real world and play again.
This is the worst kind of scam. RMT is bad enough becuase the virtual item can diappear if the game shuts down or if a new card is made making it obsulete. This is a RM(G) that can end in the same result. Except in RMT an item that costs $10 costs $10. Here you can spend and spend waitng for random chance to hit.
At least in Vegas there is a Gaming Commision to regulate the casinos. If the casino cheats or changes rules/odds without notifying the public they can have there license pulled. Here, SOE has no oversight. They can change the droprate anytime. They can make it near impossible to get and have people pay them for it.
Enough /rantOff
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
On a side note: I still find it shocking that people actually PAY to play SWG. It is amazing how low our standards have become as consumers when garbage like this still has more than 1 person willing to play it...
Very depressing state of affairs.
Tecmo Bowl.
Um, that is precisely his point, Obraik. No RL money at all involved in obtaining them. Just luck on an in-game loot drop.
Unlike the obviously RMT inspired card game loot cards. Where you DO have to pay RL money to have any reasonable chance to beat the randominzed odds to get them.
I would like to go even further (this is the post where I try to bash you on the head to get you to my way of thinking, although I don't expect it to work).
I will use an analogy.
1. One month of sub time in SWG = one night stay at hotel.
2. The TCG = blackjack (from now on BJ)
3. The podracer loot card reward = money won at BJ as a reward.
4. The nightly stay "free" $20 BJ play coupon = "free" TCG card pack given monthly for SWG sub.
OK so you decide you want to spend three days in Las Vegas. Not to gamble mind you. You have heard of all the shows, roller coasters, and dining they have from the Travel Channel. You heard the Luxor was nice so you go to their website and see in the reservation area a promo of free $20 BJ coupon for each night you stay. You think "wow, free BJ what a deal!" You book your room and head off to Vegas.
After arriving at the hotel you check in, receive your coupon, and dump your bags in your room. You rush down casino level for lunch to experience some of the dining Vegas has to offer. As you walk through the casino to get lunch you see BJ tables and everyone there is having a really good time. You only noticed them because you have that "free" BJ coupon in your pocket. You decide to use it because a "free" BJ never hurt anyone.
As you sit down you place the coupon on the table in the betting ring, as they aren't going to change it to chips you can just get up with and go cash out. No it almost seems as if they want you to play for some reason. You are dealt cards and you stand on 18 and the dealer busts with 24. YOU WON!!! How exciting. But you are not there to gamble so you take your now "free" $40 in chips and cash them out. Instead of a burger you get the surf and turf platter, ON THE HOUSE you think to yourself. You spend the day doing whatever other than gambling. You are a winner.
The next day you see another coupon slid under your door for another "free" $20 BJ. You say awsome because yesterday you were a winner. You hit the casino and spot a table with people with large stacks of chips.This is a hot table. You sit and do as before but this time the dealer has 20 to your 19. You lose. You see another player had made BJ and won. You pause and think well I'm up $40 from yesterday. I'll play that $40 and if I lose I haven't lost anything anyway. You lose it. Then it occurs to you that forty went to lunch the day before. I should win my money back. Besides others here are winning big. After rationalising it you pull a Cnote and get more chips. Not really gambling enough in you life to know a good bet or at least minimize loss you continue to play BJ incorrectly and swiftly lose your money. Frustrated you leave. But it nags at you all day.
Since the loss of money you didn't intend to lose or rather the not winning of money you intended to win, nothing else is giving you full enjoyment. You are distracted by not getting what you think you should. Later you try again with $200 to win back your losses but again the cards were not in your favor. You give up and write it off.
The next morning you see another coupon. You decide that since you wrote off the events of the day before, it no longer matters. So it couldn't hurt to play for free, win or lose I'll walk away you tell yourself. You play, this time you win a hand. Cool you are a winner again. My luck has changed. Maybe while I'm hot I can quickly win back my losses. $200 from your wallet lands next to your winnings. You win cool. I'm almost where I was at when I started. One more win and I will be way ahead. You let the bet ride and you lose. From here you may call it quits and move on or you may keep going to get the big win to find you can no longer afford six months of house payments.
The point is this. SOE is not giving you those free card packs monthly because they like or appreciate you as a customer. They give them for the same reasons casinos give BJ coupons. It is to keep you interested in getting the big win, the uber loot card for an uber in game item. The pod racer a person may desperately want is only available in game from these loot cards. Even if a small few wins them for "free," most will not. The most who won't see them, get jealous, and resolve the fact that the most likely way to get one is to buy more card packs for the added chance of winning one.
Just like the tourist that gets a "free" Bj roll sees the people around win, never sees the other people lose, gets jealous of their successes, is emotionally attached to the win i.e money i.e. podracer, and will start bleeding money to the table for it. There are people in this game that are going to pay to gamble for the loot card of their choice because every one they see in game their mind will say if they can win it so can I. But they are too impatient for the monthly packs to come out or lose faith because the last two months yielded nothing and feel they must take matters into their hands.
The moment anyone pays to receive a reward given randomly after they pay. THEY ARE GAMBLING. You may be satisfied waiting monthly for a card pack, others won't be. Just like you may be satified with the $20 BJ coupon win or lose and won't add more from your pocket. Others will. The casinos know it. SOE knows it.
As pointed out in another thread these card packs are all virtual and are intangible. You can't let them sit in a closet and play it again in ten years for nostalgia. This TCG is tied into SWG so tightly they act as coupons in game. If SWG ever shuts down for whatever reason, so will this game. Especially if all the TCG's revenue comes from SWG players willing to gamble on loot cards dropping. You won't even get to have the cards in your hands to feel in the real world and play again.
This is the worst kind of scam. RMT is bad enough becuase the virtual item can diappear if the game shuts down or if a new card is made making it obsulete. This is a RM(G) that can end in the same result. Except in RMT an item that costs $10 costs $10. Here you can spend and spend waitng for random chance to hit.
At least in Vegas there is a Gaming Commision to regulate the casinos. If the casino cheats or changes rules/odds without notifying the public they can have there license pulled. Here, SOE has no oversight. They can change the droprate anytime. They can make it near impossible to get and have people pay them for it.
Enough /rantOff
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is exactly what I've been trying to point out. I don't know if you just communicate it better, or if some people don't want to understand.
The "free" loot cards work in exactly the same way as the blackjack coupon. They serve to entice people to gamble for a chance to get the reward sooner or in tradeable form.
Also for those that would have called it quits because of bugs, low populations or what have you, some may be enticed to stay and pay subscription fees for the chance to get the "free" card they're hoping for.
Also, regarding Obraik's comments. I'm not ignoring that some monthly cards are free. I've described the loot cards as enticing people to pay more than they would otherwise, not forcing them to. If that doesn't make sense, please see the blackjack coupon example again; that is exactly what I'm talking about.
I've also never denied that there are still some opportunities for players to interact. I've just said, accurately, that these opportunities have been reduced by SOE's changes to core game systems.
Even with the RE system, the game used to have many more interdependent professions with a crafting based economy. New loot schematics now would have further increased interaction, and could have been included in the service provided for the subscription fee. SOE chose to implement a gambling system instead of this other method that was the norm in the early stages of the game.
I acknowledge that free "coupons" are provided as part of the gambling system, but this doesn't change the fact that a gambling system has been introduced, and that players are enticed to participate by its design. It also doesn't change the fact that the gambling system is, unlike other "official" gambling venues, completed unregulated.
P.S. Thanks again GrandAm. If anyone doesn't understand your very clear example, I'll conclude that it isn't because they can't, it's because they won't.
I understand that the people against the card game think that people can't think for themselfs and are compelled to purchase additional booster packs to get "an advantage" over other players.
Because I know that whenever I see a sith speeder or Podracer I feel some urge to spend hundreds of dollars to get a chance to be with the cool school crowd........................................
Well that's the idea...now go out and give SOE more of your hard earned money!
Well that's the idea...now go out and give SOE more of your hard earned money!
It does seem to be the design, I agree. However, most people in my experience won't fall for a scam like this, if they see it coming. I have to think that's why SOE marketters are trying so hard to hide the gambling element connected with the loot cards. I have great confidence that informed consumers will make wise decisions.
However, as with other gambling opportunities, there will be a few that have a weakness. We all have them in one way or another. For these few, the design of the loot card game will be especially enticing. Some have already reported losing hundreds.
These two paragraphs taken together are what I'm really saying. I have to say that the other poster's attempt to paraphrase my position just ended up twisting the meaning rather badly.
This is a critique of a new game system that seems much more $OE friendly than it is player friendly, not a criticism of players, at all.
Well that's the idea...now go out and give SOE more of your hard earned money!
It does seem to be the design, I agree. However, most people in my experience won't fall for a scam like this, if they see it coming. I have to think that's why SOE marketters are trying so hard to hide the gambling element connected with the loot cards. I have great confidence that informed consumers will make wise decisions.
However, as with other gambling opportunities, there will be a few that have a weakness. We all have them in one way or another. For these few, the design of the loot card game will be especially enticing. Some have already reported losing hundreds.
These two paragraphs taken together are what I'm really saying. I have to say that the other poster's attempt to paraphrase my position just ended up twisting the meaning rather badly.
This is a critique of a new game system that seems much more $OE friendly than it is player friendly, not a criticism of players, at all.
First off ArcAngel in response to your response to the response of someone else's response to Oraik's response...yeeshh...where I used BJ as an analogy. You are welcome, welcome, welcome.
Gutboy, please don't misunderstand. I don't support the way this card game is implemented, true. But even in this form I don't want people to not enjoy it. Life is about finding joy. If you or anyone else enjoys this TCG and SWG please do so. If it's fun for you, I say keep doing it. I don't think it is a waste of your time or money to do so. And contrary to your statements about people involved with this game(s) can't think for themselves. You are wrong, I think most every person that plays or supports this game can and do think for themselves. The only thing here is you have a different opinion than mine. I respect that and your opinion. I am only here discuss share why my opinion differs or is the same as someone else's.
Just because there is a gambling element does't by default mean it is evil. Fact is almost everything we do is a gamble in some way shape or form. You gamble evey time you drive your car that a drunk driver doesn't hit you. Same with eating at the "Roach Coach" that you won't get food poisoning. Buying a "pets.com" stock share in 1999. The only real issue I have is with potential abuses. I see mainly two.
First abuse is a minor without clear understanding of the concepts of gambling uses their parents credit card information already logged into Station's database and burns up a crazy insano charge. This could result in many things as a negative. The least being the kid is punished by the parents not allowing the SWG sub any more. At worst the parent recognises the relationship this system has to gambling and brings this to what ever governing body is willing to listen.
Second and most disturbing for potential abuse is this turns out to be really successful and generates mass profits for SOE. This is bad because other game companies will follow it. Soon the only way to get the tools ncessary to be successful in any game will be to wait for "free" packs to give that tool or spend the money "optionaly" to buy extra packs to increase the RANDOM chance of receiving the item.
Recognizing this potentional is IMO something all MMORPG players should do as consumers. If these abuses happen it affects even supporters of SWG in a negative way. Which is...SWG is not going to be here forever. If this practice persists and gains popularity buy producers whatever game you may want to play may use it. Instead of paying a flat rate and every one is on equal footing. You will be competing with people that are willing to spend more on a gamble. They may win the first time. You may have to buy six card packs to win that tool to compete with. The same tool that you paid six times as much for in RL money than the other guy. Again this is on a future game, not the present SWG.
You don't have to agree with anything I wrote here or before. I respect your opinion and you. I hope you feel the same.
Also Gutboy I noticed in your response it seems that people criticizing the TCG meant I and others felt the current player base can't think for themselves. Again couldn't be further from the truth at least from me. I also noticed that my argument of it being a gambling system was not directly disagreed with. Could you please reread my posts and for the sake of good discussion state whether or not you feel there is a gambling system in this TCG in relation to its impact on SWG. If you feel there is none can you at least understand why I do based on what I have written?
Thanks.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
As I recall, in the beginning of SWG they told us that we could become Jedi, when actually we couldn't yet.
So what's to stop them from doing the same type of thing with the cards. Maybe they have a highly sought after loot card that they forget to make one month. What if SOE 'stacks the deck' against the players? And how would we ever even know, without spending tons of money.
I think they need to be regulated just like other gambling institutions.
Atleast if they had a SWG item shop, you could just spend a buck or two to get what you wanted.