Lets stick with WoW bing the Beatles, and then then maybe WAR is like mybe Pink Floyd. This demonstrates the similarities the best I fell. In the begining Pink Floyd started out sounding vary much like the Bealtes, partly because I think they were at the same recording studio. An early example of their music would be "See Emily Play." After their early work Pink Floyd evolved into something more and unique, which can be seen in any of their work such as "Dark Side of the Moon," or "The Wall."
Did this evolution make Pink Floyd more popular then the Beatles? I would have to say no, but they did manage to create the best selling album ever "Dark Side of the Moon." Both artists still have people that love their music, and each managed to do very well. This could show how WAR even though starting out compared to WoW will do very well, and evolve into something new and get a different kind of fan base.
1M boxes sold, 500k subscribers after 3 months. Will clearly be the number 2 game, but a long shot away from being a peer with WOW at 11M subscribers (probably 12M when wraith launches).
First of all, let's put the numbers straight:
WoW has 2.5 million in NA, 2 million in Europe and 5.5 million subscribers in Asia. For over 8 months the number of WoW subscribers are NOT increasing, which shows WoW has reached its peak some time ago. WotLK might boost these numbers slightly for about 3 months.
WAR is being released only in NA and Europe (+Oceania) at first. I am betting it will reach 1.6 million subscribers with 1 million plus in the end of 2008.
If you have a look at the music history, Beatles has sold much more than Led Zeppelin. However you can not compare Led Zeppelin vs. Beatles. Their target audience, their music is totally different.
About your accusations of 14 year olds playing WAR, I just laugh at that. I quit WoW because lots of premature kids were playing the game, what the hell are you talking about? Sure WAR will have it's fair share of those teens, mostly coming from WoW, but not much can be done about this unless you are playing EVE or something. It's a fantasy game after all.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Tell me, what is your great knowledge of the staying power of Warhammer? There isn't even an endgame yet. Beta testers are stuck in the first 15-30% of gameplay. If endgame is capturing the enemy's main capital..... what comes after that? You capture their city, and then 3 days later it resets? Games like WOW can add new areas, dungeons and zones that are more difficult to conquer than previous ones.. in Warhammer, the 'difficulty' will be just beating the same players over and over again. The fact that Warhammer hasn't lifted the NDA on it's endgame just shows how shallow it is.
As an elder beta tester, I am not stuck in the first 15-30% of gameplay. I AM currently testing the end game, which has much more to offer compared to WoW's mindless grinding.
War is coming. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. We will talk about the numbers in the end of this year.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
The Beatles were popular because they're good and WAR isn't led zeppelin because they were very different and playing WAR it's a very similar shitter version of WOW so they are infact The Monkees.
Sorry to say it but WoW even is not like a beetles but more like Michael Jackson.
WAR is really the very heavy metal!
That was a disgrace to Michael Jackson. WoW is more like Britney Spears or Hannah Montana trying to stay on the magazines, M.J at least knows how to stay away from the public hehe...
p.s: Britney Spears also produced quality pop one time.
You see theres the problem really. Paul called WoW the Beattles. Gave his competetion the respect it deserved and showed that his game would be no less ground breaking and awesome. But you have to come in and start saying hes wrong WoW = MJ or BS. Coz clearly you know the game more than he does.
Its trolls like you who need to shut up. Talking about WoW fanbois when you stoop to their level. Pot calling the kettle black much?
Nah, I know WoW is the Beatles. I have played WoW for about 1.5-2 years. Had good time with it till it became a mindless grind for gear patch after patch after patch. I don't want to bash WoW a lot, however people like Azrile come to the forums and pull numbers from their butts. Those people should be spanked to the point where they are reduced to the level of Britney Spears mentality.
Other than that, if you are playing WoW and having fun with it, so be it. No one is forcing you to depart from your gear, faction, whatever grinding. As an OP, I just wanted to state the fact that, Mythic is not comparing itself with WoW. And that's a fact.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
I thought the Beatles and Led Zeppelin analogy was funny........ It did make more sense than Funcoms McDonalds vs Steak. I like both bands, I say the beatles music got better once they started using LSD.lol
But yeah, I will be playing WoW and WAR for awhile, I hope I can get my cousins to play WAR as well as WoW and then get them to just play WAR. I played WoW a year longer than they have. WoW was their first MMO Its my umteenth MMO. While WoW is a good game, I think I will like WAR better.
Warhammer will have "endgame" from the beginning of the game with RvR, public quests, siegable keeps, etc. You can do this pretty much at level 1. You can get armor sets at level 3'ish. You' mostly fight other players.
WoW they keep moving the endgame further and further away, and its the same dungeon grinds or Arena grinds, you'll mostly fight NPCs.
You choose. If you like to fight NPCs or players it is a nice step forward in the MMO evolution with Warhammer, no longer having to grind to max level for endgame. No need to rush to max level anymore. Ok, I think you got it.
Cant wait for Warhammer 40k MMO, which Blizzard also copied with starcraft
This is from Dawn Of War II, but a War 40k MMO is in development.
Originally posted by Arcona Cant wait for Warhammer 40k MMO, which Blizzard also copied with starcraft This is from Dawn Of War II, but a War 40k MMO is in development.
I wonder if that's a good idea, the way I see it: Warhammer 40k MMO will be a direct a competitor to WAR.
What about you yourself, will you leave WAR for W40k MMO once it's released ?
Any evidence for that or is it blind fanatical support for WoW?
Tell me, what is your great knowledge of the staying power of Warhammer? There isn't even an endgame yet. Beta testers are stuck in the first 15-30% of gameplay. If endgame is capturing the enemy's main capital..... what comes after that? You capture their city, and then 3 days later it resets? Games like WOW can add new areas, dungeons and zones that are more difficult to conquer than previous ones.. in Warhammer, the 'difficulty' will be just beating the same players over and over again.
The fact that Warhammer hasn't lifted the NDA on it's endgame just shows how shallow it is.
Vicksburg(Memoir/Teamfortress and Azrile, you guys know that WoW didn't have a complete endgame at launch right?
And there was NO PVP objectives to WOW at all initially. You could never level using PvP with wow. And after closing on 4 years, they have 4 BGs and arenas as endgame PVP in WoW. And it was farm from balanced.
PvPwise
WoW:
4 BGs + arenas after years (at launch == nothing)
WAR:
>20 Scenarios (BGs) at launch which you can Q at without battlemasters anywhere (even at level 1)
City/Keep sieges + Guild keep claiming
Leveling through PvP.
Guild levels
Territorial conquest (flag caps/Keep caps).
Tier system resulting in RvR affected by all levels contributing to endgame.
What PvP system did WoW have at launch? What kind of endgame did it have? I remember hitting 60 and saying hmm I'm bored.
Seeing one side versus the other and not realising this is a newly lauched game does not bode well for other WoW fans. Please be objective.
Vicksburg/Memoir/Teamfortress, you state everyone talking to you is a personal attack, but I just have a polite question. If you didn't think WAR had any staying power, why did you claim order to preorder it a few months ago, and have you cancelled it yet?
Competition is good, I hope both games keep succeeding. Keep the anti-fanboism and anti-haters alive!
OMG they're already starting working on an expansion! The game is going to suck.
I bet you are a wow fanboy.. but in the end u cant help think of trying warhammer cous everyone around have so much fun.. and will try it.. and might stay there
I love the amount of FANBOIS from the WAR camp that have crept into these forums, but anyways i see a lot of people saying how pvp is going to be the new thing and it is going to wipe aside the stupidiness of fighting NPCs and getting loot. Well i got news for ya kiddos thats what a MMORPG is. I like collecting lootz i enjoy killing npcs with set attack patterns, (I wish they were more intelligent patterns like GOW or DMC, but not every player is an all star or even than good.) I have been playing games for close 20 years and i have enjoyed alot of genres, but the game you WAR boys seems to be descibing isn't a MMORPG at all, its more of a MMOTPAG (massively multiplayer online third person action game).
Now if thats what you want fine go play it and leave us loot wanting monster killers to our own designs
PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that, cause i have no problem 3 years from now being lv 90 and killing a 3 headed dragon with the same tail swipe move as onyxia from so long ago. I doubt you will enjoy raidng the same city everynight 3 months down the line because you will be bored already.
I enjoy that and if you don't go play war cause i would enjoy WOW alot more without all the whiners and complainers who really just want to play another game, but are stuck with wow because they have friends or whatever holding them back.
Anyways rant over, stay with WOW if you want to PVE or go join the revolution of PVP MMOs that to seem to want to take over. WAR is only the begininning.
Hype is my nemesis. i will fight it til the day i die whether i take it down or it takes me down. So depressing, Yes?
Well we finally have a video of Paul Barnett saying Warhammer isn't a WoW clone. That sure settles any argument against that. Thank you for clearing that up. /end sarcasm
Of course Paul Barnett also said Warhammer is 80% of what you have already seen in MMOs and 20% innovation. I wonder what 80% was the driving force behind their creative process and which model they decided to follow as the most likely path to success? It isn't rocket science folks.
Warhammer sounds like it might finally be the game that has a chance at being a WoW replacement for the many people that are completely burned out of playing WoW. Time can only tell and we shall see in the next several months if that is true and if people are big enough to put their money where their mouths are. Warhammer isn't the first game to launch with huge hype and grand promises.
I do hope Warhammer does well as it will broaden the market, but my instincts tell me the game only has about 6 months of true playable value before the boredom sets in. I fear that any expansion will cause major turmoil in the balance of the game considering how structured the original game is with tiers and such. I could be way off base, but everything is telling me not to count on this games longevity for many. It will do well and have a good population if it can avoid a Conanesque launch though.
I love the amount of FANBOIS from the WAR camp that have crept into these forums, but anyways i see a lot of people saying how pvp is going to be the new thing and it is going to wipe aside the stupidiness of fighting NPCs and getting loot. Well i got news for ya kiddos thats what a MMORPG is. I like collecting lootz i enjoy killing npcs with set attack patterns, (I wish they were more intelligent patterns like GOW or DMC, but not every player is an all star or even than good.) I have been playing games for close 20 years and i have enjoyed alot of genres, but the game you WAR boys seems to be descibing isn't a MMORPG at all, its more of a MMOTPAG (massively multiplayer online third person action game). Now if thats what you want fine go play it and leave us loot wanting monster killers to our own designs PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that, cause i have no problem 3 years from now being lv 90 and killing a 3 headed dragon with the same tail swipe move as onyxia from so long ago. I doubt you will enjoy raidng the same city everynight 3 months down the line because you will be bored already. I enjoy that and if you don't go play war cause i would enjoy WOW alot more without all the whiners and complainers who really just want to play another game, but are stuck with wow because they have friends or whatever holding them back. Anyways rant over, stay with WOW if you want to PVE or go join the revolution of PVP MMOs that to seem to want to take over. WAR is only the begininning.
"PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that."
LOL. You do know there is endgame PvP in WoW right? It's just extremely limited. You may want to kill 3 headed onyxia jr. 3 years from now, but many people don't. You may want to grind for loot on AI endlessly substituting items for more items and redoing it every expansion from scratch, but many people don't.
If you like fighting AI repeatedly, that's your call but alot of other people don't, they like to PvP. PvP can be a longterm endgame, as seen by pre-toa DAOC. I believe PvP progression can be substituted for PvE progression in an MMO simply because figthing players is way more dynamic than fighting the same AI that uses the same strategies over and over.
"PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that/" LOL. You do know there is endgame PvP in WoW right? It's just extremely limited. You may want to kill 3 headed onyxia jr. 3 years from now, but most people don't. If you like fighting AI repeatedly, that's your call but alot of other people don't, they like to PvP. PvP can be a longterm endgame, as seen by pre-toa daoc. I believe PvP progression can be substituted for PvE progression in an MMO simply because figthing players is way more dynamic than fighting the same AI that uses the same strategies over and over.
I guess 10-11 million people playing a PvE centric game with some good PvP alternative gameplay is the minority compared to the few hundred thousand people who play PvP centric endgame MMOs? Is that what you meant by "most people"?
Last time I looked PvE game were far and away the majority of players choice in MMOs. Also Mythic fucked up their PvP centric MMO with expansions, time will tell if they don't repeat.
"PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that/" LOL. You do know there is endgame PvP in WoW right? It's just extremely limited. You may want to kill 3 headed onyxia jr. 3 years from now, but most people don't. You may want to grind for loot on AI endlessly substituting items for more items and redoing it every expansion from scratch, but many people don't.
If you like fighting AI repeatedly, that's your call but alot of other people don't, they like to PvP. PvP can be a longterm endgame, as seen by pre-toa daoc. I believe PvP progression can be substituted for PvE progression in an MMO simply because figthing players is way more dynamic than fighting the same AI that uses the same strategies over and over.
I guess 10-11 million people playing a PvE centric game with some good PvP alternative gameplay is the minority compared to the few hundred thousand people who play PvP centric endgame MMOs? Is that what you meant by "most people"?
Last time I looked PvE game were far and away the majority of players choice in MMOs. Also Mythic f$%^ up their PvP centric MMO with expansions, time will tell if they don't repeat.
See then again reading comprehension has to come into play. WoW never made you kill a 3 headed onyxia jr. so that's a moot point.
When i talked about PvP endgame, I said many people would like it not most.
To rehash, I used "most people" in the context of killing 3 headed onyxia jr. not WoW.
I used "alot of other people" in the context of PvP which by no means indicates a majority.
Lastly, Mythic did badly by introducing grindy PvE in TOA, which is exactly why it failed.
Just because there is not a good PvP MMO out there, doesn't mean there is no market for it. DAOC competed with EQ as a sturdy PvP centric MMO for a very long time. There is just currently a lack of options in that respect.
Your post was edited as I was typing my reply and the changing of a few words makes all the difference. As I originally quoted you, you can see your intentions. I'll just leave it at that.
However I never said there wasn't a market for PvP [end] games. There is sure a lack of good examples and even some of those have gotten worse as they expanded. It is a much harder model to maintain and grow as an MMO, IMHO. DAOC was competition for EQ, because those 2 games were the only serious choice for a long time. Mythic has some first hand experience in what to do and not to do, so we shall see just how well this market is now and hope they don't pull another TOA.
The Beatles were popular because they're good and WAR isn't led zeppelin because they were very different and playing WAR it's a very similar shitter version of WOW so they are infact The Monkees.
Sorry to say it but WoW even is not like a beetles but more like Michael Jackson.
WAR is really the very heavy metal!
That was a disgrace to Michael Jackson. WoW is more like Britney Spears or Hannah Montana trying to stay on the magazines, M.J at least knows how to stay away from the public hehe...
p.s: Britney Spears also produced quality pop one time.
" trying to stay". you realize that WOW still has 3 boxes in the top ten in sales in NA, and Warhammer hasn't even launched yet? Not only does WOW continue to stay in the to 10 sales week after week, but their subscription numbers in NA( and overall) continue to climb, reaching 10.9M as of May.
WOW is more like Bruce Springsten.. continues to sell a ton of records whenever he wants. Warhammer is like like some garage band full of 14 year olds who haven't even been heard in public yet, let alone sold any albums.... but all their pimple-faced friends will tell you how great they are.
As time has been going on, the beta reviews from Warhammer are getting more and more pessimistic. The early reviews were from people that were in the game in closed beta and were very close to the devs.. they had their prewritten 'reviews' all ready to flood everyone as soon as the NDA was lifted. Now that the average beta testers are getting in, the feedback is very 'blah'. Combat is bland, pve is non-existent (do mobs even fight back yet), no crafting, non-strategic combat.. just mindless zerging and zerging.
1M boxes sold, 500k subscribers after 3 months. Will clearly be the number 2 game, but a long shot away from being a peer with WOW at 11M subscribers (probably 12M when wraith launches).
You seem to be blinded by wow fanboism. It's been out nearly 4 years. EBGAMES IS ALREADY AT SOFT CAP PRE SALES, WHICH MEANS 800,000 ALONE AT EBGAMES. Not counting amazon, etc. This is already better than sale wise than what wow did at launch. You seem to forget, it took wow a LONG TIME to get even the 2 million mark. Warhammer will reach that, easily, especially once everyone starts to understand that the game is meant for a more casual audience and doesnt have 10,000 pointless rep grinds designed by previously unemployed eq raiders.
It's true that the majority of the gamers prefer killing NPC compared to bashing some other player's toon in the head.
I know that there are people like me who loves PvP, and some people just can't stand the thrill.
If you prefer PvE, stick to WoW. If you enjoy PvP more, Warhammer is the game for you.
That's what Paul Barnett wanted to tell. Warhammer is the heavy metal of MMOs. It's different. You might like it or not like it, but that's how it is.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Useless like the rest of Paul's videos, only thing it brings to the table is shit for fanboys and haters to fling at each other. Bunch of useless generalizations and analogies that don't even work so that feeble minded can read into them what ever they wish and scream I TOLD YOU SO!!!
Comments
I'll be clicking like crazy on the first dog I see!
lol. That guy is hilarious. Good interview.
On a side note this thread really flushes out the haters/fanbois of either game :P
Lets stick with WoW bing the Beatles, and then then maybe WAR is like mybe Pink Floyd. This demonstrates the similarities the best I fell. In the begining Pink Floyd started out sounding vary much like the Bealtes, partly because I think they were at the same recording studio. An early example of their music would be "See Emily Play." After their early work Pink Floyd evolved into something more and unique, which can be seen in any of their work such as "Dark Side of the Moon," or "The Wall."
Did this evolution make Pink Floyd more popular then the Beatles? I would have to say no, but they did manage to create the best selling album ever "Dark Side of the Moon." Both artists still have people that love their music, and each managed to do very well. This could show how WAR even though starting out compared to WoW will do very well, and evolve into something new and get a different kind of fan base.
First of all, let's put the numbers straight:
WoW has 2.5 million in NA, 2 million in Europe and 5.5 million subscribers in Asia. For over 8 months the number of WoW subscribers are NOT increasing, which shows WoW has reached its peak some time ago. WotLK might boost these numbers slightly for about 3 months.
WAR is being released only in NA and Europe (+Oceania) at first. I am betting it will reach 1.6 million subscribers with 1 million plus in the end of 2008.
If you have a look at the music history, Beatles has sold much more than Led Zeppelin. However you can not compare Led Zeppelin vs. Beatles. Their target audience, their music is totally different.
About your accusations of 14 year olds playing WAR, I just laugh at that. I quit WoW because lots of premature kids were playing the game, what the hell are you talking about? Sure WAR will have it's fair share of those teens, mostly coming from WoW, but not much can be done about this unless you are playing EVE or something. It's a fantasy game after all.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
As an elder beta tester, I am not stuck in the first 15-30% of gameplay. I AM currently testing the end game, which has much more to offer compared to WoW's mindless grinding.
War is coming. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. We will talk about the numbers in the end of this year.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Sorry to say it but WoW even is not like a beetles but more like Michael Jackson.
WAR is really the very heavy metal!
That was a disgrace to Michael Jackson. WoW is more like Britney Spears or Hannah Montana trying to stay on the magazines, M.J at least knows how to stay away from the public hehe...
p.s: Britney Spears also produced quality pop one time.
You see theres the problem really. Paul called WoW the Beattles. Gave his competetion the respect it deserved and showed that his game would be no less ground breaking and awesome. But you have to come in and start saying hes wrong WoW = MJ or BS. Coz clearly you know the game more than he does.
Its trolls like you who need to shut up. Talking about WoW fanbois when you stoop to their level. Pot calling the kettle black much?
Nah, I know WoW is the Beatles. I have played WoW for about 1.5-2 years. Had good time with it till it became a mindless grind for gear patch after patch after patch. I don't want to bash WoW a lot, however people like Azrile come to the forums and pull numbers from their butts. Those people should be spanked to the point where they are reduced to the level of Britney Spears mentality.
Other than that, if you are playing WoW and having fun with it, so be it. No one is forcing you to depart from your gear, faction, whatever grinding. As an OP, I just wanted to state the fact that, Mythic is not comparing itself with WoW. And that's a fact.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
i'd listen to led zeppelin over the beatles any day.
WoW is getting old, WAR is taking up the reigns of succession.
I thought the Beatles and Led Zeppelin analogy was funny........ It did make more sense than Funcoms McDonalds vs Steak. I like both bands, I say the beatles music got better once they started using LSD.lol
But yeah, I will be playing WoW and WAR for awhile, I hope I can get my cousins to play WAR as well as WoW and then get them to just play WAR. I played WoW a year longer than they have. WoW was their first MMO Its my umteenth MMO. While WoW is a good game, I think I will like WAR better.
Warhammer will have "endgame" from the beginning of the game with RvR, public quests, siegable keeps, etc. You can do this pretty much at level 1. You can get armor sets at level 3'ish. You' mostly fight other players.
WoW they keep moving the endgame further and further away, and its the same dungeon grinds or Arena grinds, you'll mostly fight NPCs.
You choose. If you like to fight NPCs or players
it is a nice step forward in the MMO evolution with Warhammer, no longer having to grind to max level for endgame. No need to rush to max level anymore. Ok, I think you got it.
Cant wait for Warhammer 40k MMO, which Blizzard also copied with starcraft
This is from Dawn Of War II, but a War 40k MMO is in development.
I wonder if that's a good idea, the way I see it: Warhammer 40k MMO will be a direct a competitor to WAR.
What about you yourself, will you leave WAR for W40k MMO once it's released ?
I wonder if that's a good idea, the way I see it: Warhammer 40k MMO will be a direct a competitor to WAR.
What about you yourself, will you leave WAR for W40k MMO once it's released ?
Not too many sci-fi mmo's on the market. And maybe I would play both?
O RLY?
Any evidence for that or is it blind fanatical support for WoW?
Tell me, what is your great knowledge of the staying power of Warhammer? There isn't even an endgame yet. Beta testers are stuck in the first 15-30% of gameplay. If endgame is capturing the enemy's main capital..... what comes after that? You capture their city, and then 3 days later it resets? Games like WOW can add new areas, dungeons and zones that are more difficult to conquer than previous ones.. in Warhammer, the 'difficulty' will be just beating the same players over and over again.
The fact that Warhammer hasn't lifted the NDA on it's endgame just shows how shallow it is.
Vicksburg(Memoir/Teamfortress and Azrile, you guys know that WoW didn't have a complete endgame at launch right?
And there was NO PVP objectives to WOW at all initially. You could never level using PvP with wow. And after closing on 4 years, they have 4 BGs and arenas as endgame PVP in WoW. And it was farm from balanced.
PvPwise
WoW:
4 BGs + arenas after years (at launch == nothing)
WAR:
>20 Scenarios (BGs) at launch which you can Q at without battlemasters anywhere (even at level 1)
City/Keep sieges + Guild keep claiming
Leveling through PvP.
Guild levels
Territorial conquest (flag caps/Keep caps).
Tier system resulting in RvR affected by all levels contributing to endgame.
No ganking of lowbies because of chicken rule.
A renown system of 80 levels.
........................................................................................
What PvP system did WoW have at launch? What kind of endgame did it have? I remember hitting 60 and saying hmm I'm bored.
Seeing one side versus the other and not realising this is a newly lauched game does not bode well for other WoW fans. Please be objective.
Vicksburg/Memoir/Teamfortress, you state everyone talking to you is a personal attack, but I just have a polite question. If you didn't think WAR had any staying power, why did you claim order to preorder it a few months ago, and have you cancelled it yet?
Competition is good, I hope both games keep succeeding. Keep the anti-fanboism and anti-haters alive!
But maybe I'm wrong, if you're l33t enough to use one of these.
Either way, I wish I have a lot of time and money to spend as well as so little real life commitment like you
But maybe I'm wrong, if you're l33t enough to use one of these.
Either way, I wish I have a lot of time and money to spend as well as so little real life commitment like you
You call me a nerd and post a link to a nerdy gadget?
Neeeeeerd
Seriously though, cant tell if im going to play either yet, since they are not release yet
I used to sell that thing for a living, you know: making money off those nerds satisfying their nerdy needs
I bet you are a wow fanboy.. but in the end u cant help think of trying warhammer cous everyone around have so much fun.. and will try it.. and might stay there
I love the amount of FANBOIS from the WAR camp that have crept into these forums, but anyways i see a lot of people saying how pvp is going to be the new thing and it is going to wipe aside the stupidiness of fighting NPCs and getting loot. Well i got news for ya kiddos thats what a MMORPG is. I like collecting lootz i enjoy killing npcs with set attack patterns, (I wish they were more intelligent patterns like GOW or DMC, but not every player is an all star or even than good.) I have been playing games for close 20 years and i have enjoyed alot of genres, but the game you WAR boys seems to be descibing isn't a MMORPG at all, its more of a MMOTPAG (massively multiplayer online third person action game).
Now if thats what you want fine go play it and leave us loot wanting monster killers to our own designs
PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that, cause i have no problem 3 years from now being lv 90 and killing a 3 headed dragon with the same tail swipe move as onyxia from so long ago. I doubt you will enjoy raidng the same city everynight 3 months down the line because you will be bored already.
I enjoy that and if you don't go play war cause i would enjoy WOW alot more without all the whiners and complainers who really just want to play another game, but are stuck with wow because they have friends or whatever holding them back.
Anyways rant over, stay with WOW if you want to PVE or go join the revolution of PVP MMOs that to seem to want to take over. WAR is only the begininning.
Hype is my nemesis. i will fight it til the day i die whether i take it down or it takes me down. So depressing, Yes?
Well we finally have a video of Paul Barnett saying Warhammer isn't a WoW clone. That sure settles any argument against that. Thank you for clearing that up. /end sarcasm
Of course Paul Barnett also said Warhammer is 80% of what you have already seen in MMOs and 20% innovation. I wonder what 80% was the driving force behind their creative process and which model they decided to follow as the most likely path to success? It isn't rocket science folks.
Warhammer sounds like it might finally be the game that has a chance at being a WoW replacement for the many people that are completely burned out of playing WoW. Time can only tell and we shall see in the next several months if that is true and if people are big enough to put their money where their mouths are. Warhammer isn't the first game to launch with huge hype and grand promises.
I do hope Warhammer does well as it will broaden the market, but my instincts tell me the game only has about 6 months of true playable value before the boredom sets in. I fear that any expansion will cause major turmoil in the balance of the game considering how structured the original game is with tiers and such. I could be way off base, but everything is telling me not to count on this games longevity for many. It will do well and have a good population if it can avoid a Conanesque launch though.
"PVP is not endgame and someday you will truly come to understand that."
LOL. You do know there is endgame PvP in WoW right? It's just extremely limited. You may want to kill 3 headed onyxia jr. 3 years from now, but many people don't. You may want to grind for loot on AI endlessly substituting items for more items and redoing it every expansion from scratch, but many people don't.
If you like fighting AI repeatedly, that's your call but alot of other people don't, they like to PvP. PvP can be a longterm endgame, as seen by pre-toa DAOC. I believe PvP progression can be substituted for PvE progression in an MMO simply because figthing players is way more dynamic than fighting the same AI that uses the same strategies over and over.
I guess 10-11 million people playing a PvE centric game with some good PvP alternative gameplay is the minority compared to the few hundred thousand people who play PvP centric endgame MMOs? Is that what you meant by "most people"?
Last time I looked PvE game were far and away the majority of players choice in MMOs. Also Mythic fucked up their PvP centric MMO with expansions, time will tell if they don't repeat.
I guess 10-11 million people playing a PvE centric game with some good PvP alternative gameplay is the minority compared to the few hundred thousand people who play PvP centric endgame MMOs? Is that what you meant by "most people"?
Last time I looked PvE game were far and away the majority of players choice in MMOs. Also Mythic f$%^ up their PvP centric MMO with expansions, time will tell if they don't repeat.
See then again reading comprehension has to come into play. WoW never made you kill a 3 headed onyxia jr. so that's a moot point.
When i talked about PvP endgame, I said many people would like it not most.
To rehash, I used "most people" in the context of killing 3 headed onyxia jr. not WoW.
I used "alot of other people" in the context of PvP which by no means indicates a majority.
Lastly, Mythic did badly by introducing grindy PvE in TOA, which is exactly why it failed.
Just because there is not a good PvP MMO out there, doesn't mean there is no market for it. DAOC competed with EQ as a sturdy PvP centric MMO for a very long time. There is just currently a lack of options in that respect.
L2R pls.
Your post was edited as I was typing my reply and the changing of a few words makes all the difference. As I originally quoted you, you can see your intentions. I'll just leave it at that.
However I never said there wasn't a market for PvP [end] games. There is sure a lack of good examples and even some of those have gotten worse as they expanded. It is a much harder model to maintain and grow as an MMO, IMHO. DAOC was competition for EQ, because those 2 games were the only serious choice for a long time. Mythic has some first hand experience in what to do and not to do, so we shall see just how well this market is now and hope they don't pull another TOA.
Sorry to say it but WoW even is not like a beetles but more like Michael Jackson.
WAR is really the very heavy metal!
That was a disgrace to Michael Jackson. WoW is more like Britney Spears or Hannah Montana trying to stay on the magazines, M.J at least knows how to stay away from the public hehe...
p.s: Britney Spears also produced quality pop one time.
" trying to stay". you realize that WOW still has 3 boxes in the top ten in sales in NA, and Warhammer hasn't even launched yet? Not only does WOW continue to stay in the to 10 sales week after week, but their subscription numbers in NA( and overall) continue to climb, reaching 10.9M as of May.
WOW is more like Bruce Springsten.. continues to sell a ton of records whenever he wants. Warhammer is like like some garage band full of 14 year olds who haven't even been heard in public yet, let alone sold any albums.... but all their pimple-faced friends will tell you how great they are.
As time has been going on, the beta reviews from Warhammer are getting more and more pessimistic. The early reviews were from people that were in the game in closed beta and were very close to the devs.. they had their prewritten 'reviews' all ready to flood everyone as soon as the NDA was lifted. Now that the average beta testers are getting in, the feedback is very 'blah'. Combat is bland, pve is non-existent (do mobs even fight back yet), no crafting, non-strategic combat.. just mindless zerging and zerging.
1M boxes sold, 500k subscribers after 3 months. Will clearly be the number 2 game, but a long shot away from being a peer with WOW at 11M subscribers (probably 12M when wraith launches).
You seem to be blinded by wow fanboism. It's been out nearly 4 years. EBGAMES IS ALREADY AT SOFT CAP PRE SALES, WHICH MEANS 800,000 ALONE AT EBGAMES. Not counting amazon, etc. This is already better than sale wise than what wow did at launch. You seem to forget, it took wow a LONG TIME to get even the 2 million mark. Warhammer will reach that, easily, especially once everyone starts to understand that the game is meant for a more casual audience and doesnt have 10,000 pointless rep grinds designed by previously unemployed eq raiders.
It's true that the majority of the gamers prefer killing NPC compared to bashing some other player's toon in the head.
I know that there are people like me who loves PvP, and some people just can't stand the thrill.
If you prefer PvE, stick to WoW. If you enjoy PvP more, Warhammer is the game for you.
That's what Paul Barnett wanted to tell. Warhammer is the heavy metal of MMOs. It's different. You might like it or not like it, but that's how it is.
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Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Useless like the rest of Paul's videos, only thing it brings to the table is shit for fanboys and haters to fling at each other. Bunch of useless generalizations and analogies that don't even work so that feeble minded can read into them what ever they wish and scream I TOLD YOU SO!!!