Useless like the rest of Paul's videos, only thing it brings to the table is shit for fanboys and haters to fling at each other. Bunch of useless generalizations and analogies that don't even work so that feeble minded can read into them what ever they wish and scream I TOLD YOU SO!!!
Not even comparing what YOU (as a player and whiner) have contributed to the MMO world and Paul Bartnett has contributed. Stay in your corner, quietly please.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Topics seem to always become so serious any hate driven around here. Because of this and the references to the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, I give you Keepon dancing to a Zeppelin song. If this little guy does not make you smile a little bit then I suggest you looking hard under rocks to try to find it again. Also shows that even a little peep looking thing like to dance, and sadly may even dance better then me. Now on to smiles and less hate for everyone.
It's funny how many people get riled up and defensive about a post meant to respect and pay homage to WoW. I mean the beatles were a milestone in history. Lighten up. LMAO.
Useless like the rest of Paul's videos, only thing it brings to the table is shit for fanboys and haters to fling at each other. Bunch of useless generalizations and analogies that don't even work so that feeble minded can read into them what ever they wish and scream I TOLD YOU SO!!!
Not even comparing what YOU (as a player and whiner) have contributed to the MMO world and Paul Bartnett has contributed. Stay in your corner, quietly please.
What did he actually contribute, aside from shifting every interview away from things you would actualy like to learn about a GAME, like you know, gameplay stuff. Flailing his arms and screaming in the camera does not really tell me much, unless WAR gameplay is that shallow.
MUCH to much honor for a game which isn't even published yet and which doesn't have any staying power.
I have actually never seen you give credit to anything apart from WoW Vicksburg. That has never striked you as a reason why people feel you are very biased and uninformed?
600 K at hyped launch and dropping subs after 3 months... we've seen it all happen 10 times in these last 3 years.
Staying power isn't there and you know it. personal attacks on Wow forums won't help a bit.
It's the MMORPG that counts, not the personal attacks or insults.
Almost 900k now.
WAR has a lot more staying power than any MMORPG to date (apart from EVE). It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
It will no doubt be a success. The word is out, it's been tested for about a year and the NDA has been lifted. It's not even a matter of 'well, lets see how it does when it comes out'... we already know it's going to succeed and probably topple WoW once people wake up from their addiction to a tired and teetering game. We can say this, because we can simply compare WAR to WoW... and WAR is a lot more fun, has a LOT more depth and customization and doesn't wipe your character's gear every 2 years It'll be around in 30 years.. whereas i doubt WoW will be around in 2.
What did he actually contribute, aside from shifting every interview away from things you would actualy like to learn about a GAME, like you know, gameplay stuff. Flailing his arms and screaming in the camera does not really tell me much, unless WAR gameplay is that shallow.
He talked gave an overview about classes, parallels to modern day themes, and summarised endgame. I don't think the video was about going into the deep mechanics of the game and neither were the questions steered towards that.
It's an basically a rough overview for the people who don't know what's it's about. If you want give an interview about an upcoming game you give a rundown of the game and use themes and analogies that the general population can relate to (like pop culture references) and add humor into the mix to get people excited about it. He's doing his job at publicizing the game.
From the question the reporter asked he didn't look like he expected gameplay mechanics. It's important to answer the questions and not stray too far. If there was a specific question about gameplay that he skirted pls tell me which one it was, cos I probably missed it.
If you want to know about mechanics and gameplay you would look at the podcasts, the beta videos and the tons of info on the web where he and other staff talked about these. Don't expect all this in one interview which was meant to give the public a general picture of an upcoming game.
It gave me a good laugh. Gave WoW credit where credit was due and was duely respectful all around. What would you have answered differently Seth son? Which questions?
Originally posted by SonofSeth You know, the question about which this thread is about, how WAR differs from WoW.
Which would be equally hard as to answer the question how WoW differens from EQ2, how WoW differs from EQ or how EQ differs from UO. It is a myriad of details that create a different experience - evolution.
Whether it will be highly successful or not is a different question.
People are bleeping idiots. Anyone who says the game is going to be crap because it can't beat WoW's subscribers in a week, month, year, is just a tool. That's like saying the cars put out by Saturn are horrible, because look, it's been X years and there's still not more Saturns on the road then there are Ford Escorts. Oh yeah, they must really suck! Hell, there's even more Honda Accords on the road! Can you not see the fallacy of such a statement?
Anyone who thinks a game is only good if it's the best deserves a swift kick in the nuts. It's people like you that drag any kind of groundbreaking development and content to a crawl. Do me a favor, go waste another thousand hours on WoW, only to have the expansion come out and make the months of work you've done be pointless. No one's going to be saying how awesome Burning Crusade is when WotLK comes out, are they? I'm not wow hating, mind you, just pointing out that ALL games have merit, even F2P asian grindfests not only stimulate real life economy, but gives people a chance to get experience in the field.
People are bleeping idiots. Anyone who says the game is going to be crap because it can't beat WoW's subscribers in a week, month, year, is just a tool. That's like saying the cars put out by Saturn are horrible, because look, it's been X years and there's still not more Saturns on the road then there are Ford Escorts. Oh yeah, they must really suck! Hell, there's even more Honda Accords on the road! Can you not see the fallacy of such a statement? Anyone who thinks a game is only good if it's the best deserves a swift kick in the nuts. It's people like you that drag any kind of groundbreaking development and content to a crawl. Do me a favor, go waste another thousand hours on WoW, only to have the expansion come out and make the months of work you've done be pointless. No one's going to be saying how awesome Burning Crusade is when WotLK comes out, are they? I'm not wow hating, mind you, just pointing out that ALL games have merit, even F2P asian grindfests not only stimulate real life economy, but gives people a chance to get experience in the field.
I agree with the point your trying to make. Would just like to point out though, that LK wont be introducing a major gear change mechanic (stamina buff) like TBC did so "all your hard work going to waste" is kinda redundant. So people wont be replacing BT epics with 72-74 blues or epics. Yea their gear will kinda run out around 78-80 but isnt that waht you would want from an expansion; new stuff?
I agree with the point your trying to make. Would just like to point out though, that LK wont be introducing a major gear change mechanic (stamina buff) like TBC did so "all your hard work going to waste" is kinda redundant. So people wont be replacing BT epics with 72-74 blues or epics. Yea their gear will kinda run out around 78-80 but isnt that waht you would want from an expansion; new stuff?
Interesting. So you are saying if you earn an epic at lvl 70 before WotLK, it won't be inferior compared to the lvl 74 blue item (even if slightly)? Do you have an official response/link that supports this? Because during my time of 1.5 years in WoW (I quit right after the idiotness that is TBC), I had to renew my gear every ~2 months just to stay competitive, this includes the PvP gear as well. And to be honest, in my opinion, that is the reason how WoW kept those 2.5 million NA and 2 million European customers. Carrot on the stick feeling. They needed to grind for gear literally everytime, that's what kept them playing (imo). If they are stepping back from this idea, most people would not be happy about it I think (myself excluded).
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
ok, stop complaining about new expansions of WoW making ur previous epic gear worthless. COME ON! they raised the lvl cap to 80, do you expect them to keep the same armor sets so that all you basically get is talent points? Come on, your suppose to be able to get better gear, to make you BETTER at lvl 80, becuz lvl 80s are suppose to have better armor than lvl 70s.
Any MMO can be reduced down to the "carrot on a stick" arguement. They all use some sort of achievments as incentives and itemcentric games have been around a lot longer than WoW.
Also you do not have to upgrade your gear every 8 weeks to remain competitive. I did just fine playing casual and getting whatever gear happened to fall into my lap.
There is a dev post from a few months back on mmo-champion about the gear upgrades being less drastic this time around. I'll see if I can find it.
None the less, expansions are about new content and that includes new items. Which is worse? Buying an expansion and getting lots of new items soon after you start playing or buying an expansion and playing through all the non raid content and not finding anything useful for 10 levels and many dungeons, because your old epics are so awesome?
I just don't see the problem. Why not complain about replacing gear from blackfathom depths with gear from scarlet monestary? Same principle.
Whatever Blizzard do, people will always have something to complain about the gear outage.
Giving upgrades early in the expansion ? People will respond with:
All my hardwork, all my money and time invested in the gear: gone ! All gone !
No gear outage, and letting people with uber epics to fly through lvl 80 ? People will respond with:
WTF Blizz !? You're not giving me enough reason to do the early and mid level instances. Give me back my money !
Translation: waste of money on new content -- nothing to do, no gear to pursue.
People need to detach emotional ties they have towards the game and remind themselves that for any kinds of entertainment: time and money are meant to be spent on, not to invest or gamble.
In regards to TBC gear replacing old world gear, I do not believe it happened to me -- gear I got from AQ40 and Naxx last quite well: I still got some of them up to Leotheras a while ago, just before I quit. One BWL gear is even admittedly irreplacable.
Probably the not-hardcore guys or people with bad memory would not remember. In the very early months of WoW there was an honor system. The honor system had 14 ranks and it was DEAD hardcore. You needed to become number 1 or 2 every week for a consecutive of 12-15 weeks to reach rank 14. If you go to vacation for a couple of weeks, bye bye to 2-3 acquired ranks, that hardcore. [I am not discussing it was a good or bad system, but it was there, Blizz implemented it].
Anyway, I was the first high warlord in Europe. Playing a mage, I got a staff, cool, charismatic etc. Nice for me. Well as soon as I got it, they introduced BWL, and Nefarian's staff was much better compared to my staff. People in my server got it in a few weeks. Then came the AQ40, and if I remember correctly there was a dagger or some shit, which was better.
The point I am getting to is that, you work really really hard to get those items. It needs hundreds of wipes or competing (or was, not lately) with others to get those. Then some new shit comes out, and hoorah your gear is secondary. Another thing comes up and your gear becomes obselete. About every 2 months when a new arena season or a cool dungeon is introduced, new gear comes up. So we agree on the carrot on a stick perspective.
Fine, most MMOs (if not all) has this of some sort, but not to this extent probably. After playing WoW for about a year, if you are a normal guy, you ask yourself "Wtf am I doing?". You are killing another boss, with slightly different tactics, with the wipes and all, or tactics in the internet, getting gear, wait a few months and a new stuff comes up.
Where is the end to this? I can not be happy with the same crap every month or every release. I simply don't have fun.
In War it's kinda different, for me at least. Reaching RR80 takes about a year. You get new abilities and gear on the way. You start contributing to your realm's success from level 1. When you log in to the game you start enjoying the game, no need to worry about the end game because you are already in the end game.
These I find different. It's a matter of choice of course, but the concept of War appeals me much more. The game is fun the moment you log in, and the moment you reach level 40 because you can attack other realm's city. You would still have lots of months to reach RR80 even after level 40. Meanwhile Mythic can add the remaining cities (that were removed before release) and you can explore those. I dunno, I am optimistic about War, because it doesn't sound like a vicious cycle like WoW is.
I might be wrong, but I will try it out and see.
p.s: I have always been a PvPer. Killing an AI never gave me enough pleasure in any game.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
After spending a ton of time grinding rank 14 on my mage I had to join a PvE guild just to get dagger from chrommagus and my staff became a placeholder. It was pathetic that PvE gear was better for PvP than PvP gear then.
Then we got all decked out from Naxx and got all our crap replaced in 2 weeks in TBC. LMAO.
After your hard work gets wiped so many times, it becomes obvious that it's just there to keep people playing. Especially if you're not getting any new PvP content. Like the same arenas and BGs with just upgraded gear over and over.
Only reason I ever PvEd was to get PvP gear. Luckily, in WAR a you don't have to do that anymore. I find killing AI monotonous and boring as well. You can even PvP level in WAR I can PvP all day (did it with arenas) but PvE and repetitive PvE grinding is a snorefest to me.
Anyways, it will be fun to play a game with RvR in built and progression other than gear for endgame, without a "carrot on the stick" that you have to renew every patch. It's not for everyone but I like it.
Wow, I can totally relate to you Xtort. After spending a ton of time grinding rank 14 on my mage I had to join a PvE guild just to get dagger from chrommagus and my staff became a placeholder. It was pathetic that PvE gear was better for PvP than PvP gear then. Then we got all decked out from Naxx and got all our crap replaced in 2 weeks in TBC. LMAO. After your hard work gets wiped so many times, it becomes obvious that it's just there to keep people playing. Especially if you're not getting any new PvP content. Like the same arenas and BGs with just upgraded gear over and over. Only reason I ever PvEd was to get PvP gear. Luckily, in WAR a you don't have to do that anymore. I find killing AI monotonous and boring as well. You can even PvP level in WAR I can PvP all day (did it with arenas) but PvE and repetitive PvE grinding is a snorefest to me. Anyways, it will be fun to play a game with RvR in built and progression other than gear for endgame, without a "carrot on the stick" that you have to renew every patch. It's not for everyone but I like it.
Hi guys. Could you READ pls the following. Because the old players really don't have ANY clue how WOW works these days......
WOW changed since you played it. It is simple as that.
These days every 6 months a new and better gear is being patched through 4(!) systems.
1. New content hi raid dungeon every 6 months
2. New Arena gear (with required stats) every 6 months
3. New BG gear (reducing the grind in PVE to raid one up higher dungeons). Basic BG gear is about 3% less than highest Arena gear (so 2 lvls lower). Now 3 % isn't that much and certainly does NOT prime skill. So even a NEW level 70 is immeadiatly competitve, because the basic BG gear is high, very high.
4. New crafted gear by players. On par with the drops of the highest raids (1% less acutally).
This is a cycle that didn't exist pre TBC and not even 5 months post TBC. They started it with the arena cycles and ever since the game is a smashing success for the players that actually PLAY it these days.
Think about this system: conclusions:
1. WOW is no longer a pure raiding grinding game (see also the newer batch system and "general" class drops.
2. WOW can be played in a way the player wants it and STILL have access to very good epic gear. (Arena, BG, crafting, Raids, Heroic dungeons, you name it).
3. Your arguments of the "reset" gear thing in WotLK is of course ridiculous now with these post TBC techniques in place. Actually every time the cycle patch is launched every 6 months we see a HUGE playing curve in all these areas.
Add to this the daily quests in EVERY part of the 4 gaming elements (world PvP, BG, Heroics, even crafting).
..... And voila you have the success of WOW these days.
So the "resetting thing" of TBC is completely replaced by the natural cycle Blizz launched already 18 months ago.
Wow, I can totally relate to you Xtort. After spending a ton of time grinding rank 14 on my mage I had to join a PvE guild just to get dagger from chrommagus and my staff became a placeholder. It was pathetic that PvE gear was better for PvP than PvP gear then. Then we got all decked out from Naxx and got all our crap replaced in 2 weeks in TBC. LMAO. After your hard work gets wiped so many times, it becomes obvious that it's just there to keep people playing. Especially if you're not getting any new PvP content. Like the same arenas and BGs with just upgraded gear over and over. Only reason I ever PvEd was to get PvP gear. Luckily, in WAR a you don't have to do that anymore. I find killing AI monotonous and boring as well. You can even PvP level in WAR I can PvP all day (did it with arenas) but PvE and repetitive PvE grinding is a snorefest to me. Anyways, it will be fun to play a game with RvR in built and progression other than gear for endgame, without a "carrot on the stick" that you have to renew every patch. It's not for everyone but I like it.
Yeah. That was WoW before TBC. Everything you mentioned is now different, literally everything.
Btw there's a druid in our guild that still tanks with a staff from Molten core, because it's not been replaced in our current progression.
I don't buy the 'gear was replaced in 2 weeks' thing anyway, it takes much longer than that to upgrade the highest tier of gear from the previous expansion.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Wow, I can totally relate to you Xtort. After spending a ton of time grinding rank 14 on my mage I had to join a PvE guild just to get dagger from chrommagus and my staff became a placeholder. It was pathetic that PvE gear was better for PvP than PvP gear then. Then we got all decked out from Naxx and got all our crap replaced in 2 weeks in TBC. LMAO. After your hard work gets wiped so many times, it becomes obvious that it's just there to keep people playing. Especially if you're not getting any new PvP content. Like the same arenas and BGs with just upgraded gear over and over. Only reason I ever PvEd was to get PvP gear. Luckily, in WAR a you don't have to do that anymore. I find killing AI monotonous and boring as well. You can even PvP level in WAR I can PvP all day (did it with arenas) but PvE and repetitive PvE grinding is a snorefest to me. Anyways, it will be fun to play a game with RvR in built and progression other than gear for endgame, without a "carrot on the stick" that you have to renew every patch. It's not for everyone but I like it.
Hi guys. Could you READ pls the following. Because the old players really don't have ANY clue how WOW works these days......
WOW changed since you played it. It is simple as that.
These days every 6 months a new and better gear is being patched through 4(!) systems.
1. New content hi raid dungeon every 6 months
2. New Arena gear (with required stats) every 6 months
3. New BG gear (reducing the grind in PVE to raid one up higher dungeons). Basic BG gear is about 3% less than highest Arena gear (so 2 lvls lower). Now 3 % isn't that much and certainly does NOT prime skill. So even a NEW level 70 is immeadiatly competitve, because the basic BG gear is high, very high.
4. New crafted gear by players. On par with the drops of the highest raids (1% less acutally).
This is a cycle that didn't exist pre TBC and not even 5 months post TBC. They started it with the arena cycles and ever since the game is a smashing success for the players that actually PLAY it these days.
Think about this system: conclusions:
1. WOW is no longer a pure raiding grinding game (see also the newer batch system and "general" class drops.
2. WOW can be played in a way the player wants it and STILL have access to very good epic gear. (Arena, BG, crafting, Raids, Heroic dungeons, you name it).
3. Your arguments of the "reset" gear thing in WotLK is of course ridiculous now with these post TBC techniques in place. Actually every time the cycle patch is launched every 6 months we see a HUGE playing curve in all these areas.
Add to this the daily quests in EVERY part of the 4 gaming elements (world PvP, BG, Heroics, even crafting).
..... And voila you have the success of WOW these days.
So the "resetting thing" of TBC is completely replaced by the natural cycle Blizz launched already 18 months ago.
Capice???
Actually your argument only helps with theres. What they are saying, is they dont enjoy getting the same content over and over with just slightly better gear to replace it when they do get it. Now Blizzard is adding it every 6 months. And as far as crafting goes, dont give me that BS. Heroics, raids, and PvP gear is MUCH better than anything crafted.
WoW is not for everyone, much the same as WAR is not for everyone.
Actually your argument only helps with theres. What they are saying, is they dont enjoy getting the same content over and over with just slightly better gear to replace it when they do get it. Now Blizzard is adding it every 6 months. And as far as crafting goes, dont give me that BS. Heroics, raids, and PvP gear is MUCH better than anything crafted. WoW is not for everyone, much the same as WAR is not for everyone.
I am saying the same, but I am pointing out that it works, because people apparently like it that way. And having built it into a cycle, it's a natural good thing to avoid it being killed by old age too soon.
The game doesn't get old that way for players playing it... 2 or 3 years. Sounds logic to me. If you see all those other MMORPG's ....
As for crafting: that's your opinion of course, but the 6 months cycle IS also in crafting. The crafted gear is just under the highest raiding gear of the last 2,3 raids. But .... who gets there ? 5% of the players? The others are quite content to buy it.
The supporting professions are even more lucrative (jewellcrafting, alchemy etc...) on the AH. And since the intro of the daily quests, mats sell ... a lot.
But of course the crafting only gets interesting at the highest level of 375. That's correct, but so is the normal leveling.
Wow, I can totally relate to you Xtort. After spending a ton of time grinding rank 14 on my mage I had to join a PvE guild just to get dagger from chrommagus and my staff became a placeholder. It was pathetic that PvE gear was better for PvP than PvP gear then. Then we got all decked out from Naxx and got all our crap replaced in 2 weeks in TBC. LMAO. After your hard work gets wiped so many times, it becomes obvious that it's just there to keep people playing. Especially if you're not getting any new PvP content. Like the same arenas and BGs with just upgraded gear over and over. Only reason I ever PvEd was to get PvP gear. Luckily, in WAR a you don't have to do that anymore. I find killing AI monotonous and boring as well. You can even PvP level in WAR I can PvP all day (did it with arenas) but PvE and repetitive PvE grinding is a snorefest to me. Anyways, it will be fun to play a game with RvR in built and progression other than gear for endgame, without a "carrot on the stick" that you have to renew every patch. It's not for everyone but I like it.
Hi guys. Could you READ pls the following. Because the old players really don't have ANY clue how WOW works these days......
WOW changed since you played it. It is simple as that.
These days every 6 months a new and better gear is being patched through 4(!) systems.
1. New content hi raid dungeon every 6 months
2. New Arena gear (with required stats) every 6 months
3. New BG gear (reducing the grind in PVE to raid one up higher dungeons). Basic BG gear is about 3% less than highest Arena gear (so 2 lvls lower). Now 3 % isn't that much and certainly does NOT prime skill. So even a NEW level 70 is immeadiatly competitve, because the basic BG gear is high, very high.
4. New crafted gear by players. On par with the drops of the highest raids (1% less acutally).
This is a cycle that didn't exist pre TBC and not even 5 months post TBC. They started it with the arena cycles and ever since the game is a smashing success for the players that actually PLAY it these days.
Think about this system: conclusions:
1. WOW is no longer a pure raiding grinding game (see also the newer batch system and "general" class drops.
2. WOW can be played in a way the player wants it and STILL have access to very good epic gear. (Arena, BG, crafting, Raids, Heroic dungeons, you name it).
3. Your arguments of the "reset" gear thing in WotLK is of course ridiculous now with these post TBC techniques in place. Actually every time the cycle patch is launched every 6 months we see a HUGE playing curve in all these areas.
Add to this the daily quests in EVERY part of the 4 gaming elements (world PvP, BG, Heroics, even crafting).
..... And voila you have the success of WOW these days.
So the "resetting thing" of TBC is completely replaced by the natural cycle Blizz launched already 18 months ago.
Capice???
We were talking about old times. We know exactly how the system works now. It's good that they made PvP gear for PvPers and PvE gear for PvErs respectively.
You're missing the point once again. There is nothing to show for one's work if you totally reset a system with every xpac. Partial resets are fine but making gear totally obsolete and negate tons of hardwork which the game demanded if you wanted to see and completed the latest instances is just bad design.
It's a threadmill system where you are running on the spot all the time. If you run harder and faster, you still get to the same spot.
If they had a world economy like that where they said ok you ear all these assets from working but every few months it resets and you have to start from scratch people just won't bother to work for it.
Just beacause a plausible argument is differing from yours does not make it rediculous unless you counter it with sufficient balanced points, a cycle wiping all hard work does not do that.
Lastly, new content for PvP is not added just as much as PvE content. This is because WoW is a PvE centric game. They give you better loot but guess what, you have to grind it over the same content. The fact that they have the same PvP content over and over with just upgrading the gear is dumb. If you had the same Molten Core and BWL dungeons in TBC only grinding and they just upgraded the gear with the same dungeons for PvE you would be annoyed too.
Don't blindly defend the PvP aspects of a game because you're too jaded to realise it. Balance your opinions and accept the facts that:
PvP content is much slower than PvE content.
Answer me this Teamfortress/Vicksburge/Memoir, do you think that WoW churns as much PvP content as PvE content every patch? Answer it objectively.
Comments
Not even comparing what YOU (as a player and whiner) have contributed to the MMO world and Paul Bartnett has contributed. Stay in your corner, quietly please.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Topics seem to always become so serious any hate driven around here. Because of this and the references to the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, I give you Keepon dancing to a Zeppelin song. If this little guy does not make you smile a little bit then I suggest you looking hard under rocks to try to find it again. Also shows that even a little peep looking thing like to dance, and sadly may even dance better then me. Now on to smiles and less hate for everyone.
www.youtube.com/watch
Now i am hungry for a peep, and it no where near easter....
It's funny how many people get riled up and defensive about a post meant to respect and pay homage to WoW. I mean the beatles were a milestone in history. Lighten up. LMAO.
Not even comparing what YOU (as a player and whiner) have contributed to the MMO world and Paul Bartnett has contributed. Stay in your corner, quietly please.
What did he actually contribute, aside from shifting every interview away from things you would actualy like to learn about a GAME, like you know, gameplay stuff. Flailing his arms and screaming in the camera does not really tell me much, unless WAR gameplay is that shallow.
I have actually never seen you give credit to anything apart from WoW Vicksburg. That has never striked you as a reason why people feel you are very biased and uninformed?
600 K at hyped launch and dropping subs after 3 months... we've seen it all happen 10 times in these last 3 years.
Staying power isn't there and you know it. personal attacks on Wow forums won't help a bit.
It's the MMORPG that counts, not the personal attacks or insults.
Almost 900k now.
WAR has a lot more staying power than any MMORPG to date (apart from EVE). It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
It will no doubt be a success. The word is out, it's been tested for about a year and the NDA has been lifted. It's not even a matter of 'well, lets see how it does when it comes out'... we already know it's going to succeed and probably topple WoW once people wake up from their addiction to a tired and teetering game. We can say this, because we can simply compare WAR to WoW... and WAR is a lot more fun, has a LOT more depth and customization and doesn't wipe your character's gear every 2 years
It'll be around in 30 years.. whereas i doubt WoW will be around in 2.
He talked gave an overview about classes, parallels to modern day themes, and summarised endgame. I don't think the video was about going into the deep mechanics of the game and neither were the questions steered towards that.
It's an basically a rough overview for the people who don't know what's it's about. If you want give an interview about an upcoming game you give a rundown of the game and use themes and analogies that the general population can relate to (like pop culture references) and add humor into the mix to get people excited about it. He's doing his job at publicizing the game.
From the question the reporter asked he didn't look like he expected gameplay mechanics. It's important to answer the questions and not stray too far. If there was a specific question about gameplay that he skirted pls tell me which one it was, cos I probably missed it.
If you want to know about mechanics and gameplay you would look at the podcasts, the beta videos and the tons of info on the web where he and other staff talked about these. Don't expect all this in one interview which was meant to give the public a general picture of an upcoming game.
It gave me a good laugh. Gave WoW credit where credit was due and was duely respectful all around. What would you have answered differently Seth son? Which questions?
You know, the question about which this thread is about, how WAR differs from WoW.
Which would be equally hard as to answer the question how WoW differens from EQ2, how WoW differs from EQ or how EQ differs from UO. It is a myriad of details that create a different experience - evolution.
Whether it will be highly successful or not is a different question.
You know, the question about which this thread is about, how WAR differs from WoW.
Sounds like we have an argument. Excellent. Ok now show Paul up. Don't just say he did it wrong, don't say it was bad.
How exactly would you answer the question?
The exact question was:
"So will you beat the living snot out of world of Warcraft?" (this is from the reporter btw)
................................. show him up if you're up to it Seth son. Go Go!
You know, the question about which this thread is about, how WAR differs from WoW.
Sounds like we have an argument. Excellent. Ok now show Paul up. Don't just say he did it wrong, don't say it was bad.
How exactly would you answer the question?
The exact question was:
"So will you beat the living snot out of world of Warcraft?" (this is from the reporter btw)
................................. show him up if you're up to it Seth son. Go Go!
"No". How's that?
You know, the question about which this thread is about, how WAR differs from WoW.
Sounds like we have an argument. Excellent. Ok now show Paul up. Don't just say he did it wrong, don't say it was bad.
How exactly would you answer the question?
The exact question was:
"So will you beat the living snot out of world of Warcraft?" (this is from the reporter btw)
................................. show him up if you're up to it Seth son. Go Go!
"No". How's that?
So you're Seth now?
You know, the question about which this thread is about, how WAR differs from WoW.
Sounds like we have an argument. Excellent. Ok now show Paul up. Don't just say he did it wrong, don't say it was bad.
How exactly would you answer the question?
The exact question was:
"So will you beat the living snot out of world of Warcraft?" (this is from the reporter btw)
................................. show him up if you're up to it Seth son. Go Go!
"No". How's that?
So you're Seth now?
He asked me to take this one for him. He said he had to go kiss the dog and beat the wife......or maybe I have that backwards?
People are bleeping idiots. Anyone who says the game is going to be crap because it can't beat WoW's subscribers in a week, month, year, is just a tool. That's like saying the cars put out by Saturn are horrible, because look, it's been X years and there's still not more Saturns on the road then there are Ford Escorts. Oh yeah, they must really suck! Hell, there's even more Honda Accords on the road! Can you not see the fallacy of such a statement?
Anyone who thinks a game is only good if it's the best deserves a swift kick in the nuts. It's people like you that drag any kind of groundbreaking development and content to a crawl. Do me a favor, go waste another thousand hours on WoW, only to have the expansion come out and make the months of work you've done be pointless. No one's going to be saying how awesome Burning Crusade is when WotLK comes out, are they? I'm not wow hating, mind you, just pointing out that ALL games have merit, even F2P asian grindfests not only stimulate real life economy, but gives people a chance to get experience in the field.
I agree with the point your trying to make. Would just like to point out though, that LK wont be introducing a major gear change mechanic (stamina buff) like TBC did so "all your hard work going to waste" is kinda redundant. So people wont be replacing BT epics with 72-74 blues or epics. Yea their gear will kinda run out around 78-80 but isnt that waht you would want from an expansion; new stuff?
Interesting. So you are saying if you earn an epic at lvl 70 before WotLK, it won't be inferior compared to the lvl 74 blue item (even if slightly)? Do you have an official response/link that supports this? Because during my time of 1.5 years in WoW (I quit right after the idiotness that is TBC), I had to renew my gear every ~2 months just to stay competitive, this includes the PvP gear as well. And to be honest, in my opinion, that is the reason how WoW kept those 2.5 million NA and 2 million European customers. Carrot on the stick feeling. They needed to grind for gear literally everytime, that's what kept them playing (imo). If they are stepping back from this idea, most people would not be happy about it I think (myself excluded).
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
ok, stop complaining about new expansions of WoW making ur previous epic gear worthless. COME ON! they raised the lvl cap to 80, do you expect them to keep the same armor sets so that all you basically get is talent points? Come on, your suppose to be able to get better gear, to make you BETTER at lvl 80, becuz lvl 80s are suppose to have better armor than lvl 70s.
Any MMO can be reduced down to the "carrot on a stick" arguement. They all use some sort of achievments as incentives and itemcentric games have been around a lot longer than WoW.
Also you do not have to upgrade your gear every 8 weeks to remain competitive. I did just fine playing casual and getting whatever gear happened to fall into my lap.
There is a dev post from a few months back on mmo-champion about the gear upgrades being less drastic this time around. I'll see if I can find it.
None the less, expansions are about new content and that includes new items. Which is worse? Buying an expansion and getting lots of new items soon after you start playing or buying an expansion and playing through all the non raid content and not finding anything useful for 10 levels and many dungeons, because your old epics are so awesome?
I just don't see the problem. Why not complain about replacing gear from blackfathom depths with gear from scarlet monestary? Same principle.
Whatever Blizzard do, people will always have something to complain about the gear outage.
Giving upgrades early in the expansion ?
People will respond with:
No gear outage, and letting people with uber epics to fly through lvl 80 ?
Translation: waste of money on new content -- nothing to do, no gear to pursue.People will respond with:
People need to detach emotional ties they have towards the game and remind themselves that for any kinds of entertainment: time and money are meant to be spent on, not to invest or gamble.
In regards to TBC gear replacing old world gear, I do not believe it happened to me -- gear I got from AQ40 and Naxx last quite well: I still got some of them up to Leotheras a while ago, just before I quit. One BWL gear is even admittedly irreplacable.
Probably the not-hardcore guys or people with bad memory would not remember. In the very early months of WoW there was an honor system. The honor system had 14 ranks and it was DEAD hardcore. You needed to become number 1 or 2 every week for a consecutive of 12-15 weeks to reach rank 14. If you go to vacation for a couple of weeks, bye bye to 2-3 acquired ranks, that hardcore. [I am not discussing it was a good or bad system, but it was there, Blizz implemented it].
Anyway, I was the first high warlord in Europe. Playing a mage, I got a staff, cool, charismatic etc. Nice for me. Well as soon as I got it, they introduced BWL, and Nefarian's staff was much better compared to my staff. People in my server got it in a few weeks. Then came the AQ40, and if I remember correctly there was a dagger or some shit, which was better.
The point I am getting to is that, you work really really hard to get those items. It needs hundreds of wipes or competing (or was, not lately) with others to get those. Then some new shit comes out, and hoorah your gear is secondary. Another thing comes up and your gear becomes obselete. About every 2 months when a new arena season or a cool dungeon is introduced, new gear comes up. So we agree on the carrot on a stick perspective.
Fine, most MMOs (if not all) has this of some sort, but not to this extent probably. After playing WoW for about a year, if you are a normal guy, you ask yourself "Wtf am I doing?". You are killing another boss, with slightly different tactics, with the wipes and all, or tactics in the internet, getting gear, wait a few months and a new stuff comes up.
Where is the end to this? I can not be happy with the same crap every month or every release. I simply don't have fun.
In War it's kinda different, for me at least. Reaching RR80 takes about a year. You get new abilities and gear on the way. You start contributing to your realm's success from level 1. When you log in to the game you start enjoying the game, no need to worry about the end game because you are already in the end game.
These I find different. It's a matter of choice of course, but the concept of War appeals me much more. The game is fun the moment you log in, and the moment you reach level 40 because you can attack other realm's city. You would still have lots of months to reach RR80 even after level 40. Meanwhile Mythic can add the remaining cities (that were removed before release) and you can explore those. I dunno, I am optimistic about War, because it doesn't sound like a vicious cycle like WoW is.
I might be wrong, but I will try it out and see.
p.s: I have always been a PvPer. Killing an AI never gave me enough pleasure in any game.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Wow, I can totally relate to you Xtort.
After spending a ton of time grinding rank 14 on my mage I had to join a PvE guild just to get dagger from chrommagus and my staff became a placeholder. It was pathetic that PvE gear was better for PvP than PvP gear then.
Then we got all decked out from Naxx and got all our crap replaced in 2 weeks in TBC. LMAO.
After your hard work gets wiped so many times, it becomes obvious that it's just there to keep people playing. Especially if you're not getting any new PvP content. Like the same arenas and BGs with just upgraded gear over and over.
Only reason I ever PvEd was to get PvP gear. Luckily, in WAR a you don't have to do that anymore. I find killing AI monotonous and boring as well. You can even PvP level in WAR
I can PvP all day (did it with arenas) but PvE and repetitive PvE grinding is a snorefest to me.
Anyways, it will be fun to play a game with RvR in built and progression other than gear for endgame, without a "carrot on the stick" that you have to renew every patch. It's not for everyone but I like it.
Hi guys. Could you READ pls the following. Because the old players really don't have ANY clue how WOW works these days......
WOW changed since you played it. It is simple as that.
These days every 6 months a new and better gear is being patched through 4(!) systems.
1. New content hi raid dungeon every 6 months
2. New Arena gear (with required stats) every 6 months
3. New BG gear (reducing the grind in PVE to raid one up higher dungeons). Basic BG gear is about 3% less than highest Arena gear (so 2 lvls lower). Now 3 % isn't that much and certainly does NOT prime skill. So even a NEW level 70 is immeadiatly competitve, because the basic BG gear is high, very high.
4. New crafted gear by players. On par with the drops of the highest raids (1% less acutally).
This is a cycle that didn't exist pre TBC and not even 5 months post TBC. They started it with the arena cycles and ever since the game is a smashing success for the players that actually PLAY it these days.
Think about this system: conclusions:
1. WOW is no longer a pure raiding grinding game (see also the newer batch system and "general" class drops.
2. WOW can be played in a way the player wants it and STILL have access to very good epic gear. (Arena, BG, crafting, Raids, Heroic dungeons, you name it).
3. Your arguments of the "reset" gear thing in WotLK is of course ridiculous now with these post TBC techniques in place. Actually every time the cycle patch is launched every 6 months we see a HUGE playing curve in all these areas.
Add to this the daily quests in EVERY part of the 4 gaming elements (world PvP, BG, Heroics, even crafting).
..... And voila you have the success of WOW these days.
So the "resetting thing" of TBC is completely replaced by the natural cycle Blizz launched already 18 months ago.
Capice???
Yeah. That was WoW before TBC. Everything you mentioned is now different, literally everything.
Btw there's a druid in our guild that still tanks with a staff from Molten core, because it's not been replaced in our current progression.
I don't buy the 'gear was replaced in 2 weeks' thing anyway, it takes much longer than that to upgrade the highest tier of gear from the previous expansion.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Hi guys. Could you READ pls the following. Because the old players really don't have ANY clue how WOW works these days......
WOW changed since you played it. It is simple as that.
These days every 6 months a new and better gear is being patched through 4(!) systems.
1. New content hi raid dungeon every 6 months
2. New Arena gear (with required stats) every 6 months
3. New BG gear (reducing the grind in PVE to raid one up higher dungeons). Basic BG gear is about 3% less than highest Arena gear (so 2 lvls lower). Now 3 % isn't that much and certainly does NOT prime skill. So even a NEW level 70 is immeadiatly competitve, because the basic BG gear is high, very high.
4. New crafted gear by players. On par with the drops of the highest raids (1% less acutally).
This is a cycle that didn't exist pre TBC and not even 5 months post TBC. They started it with the arena cycles and ever since the game is a smashing success for the players that actually PLAY it these days.
Think about this system: conclusions:
1. WOW is no longer a pure raiding grinding game (see also the newer batch system and "general" class drops.
2. WOW can be played in a way the player wants it and STILL have access to very good epic gear. (Arena, BG, crafting, Raids, Heroic dungeons, you name it).
3. Your arguments of the "reset" gear thing in WotLK is of course ridiculous now with these post TBC techniques in place. Actually every time the cycle patch is launched every 6 months we see a HUGE playing curve in all these areas.
Add to this the daily quests in EVERY part of the 4 gaming elements (world PvP, BG, Heroics, even crafting).
..... And voila you have the success of WOW these days.
So the "resetting thing" of TBC is completely replaced by the natural cycle Blizz launched already 18 months ago.
Capice???
Actually your argument only helps with theres. What they are saying, is they dont enjoy getting the same content over and over with just slightly better gear to replace it when they do get it. Now Blizzard is adding it every 6 months. And as far as crafting goes, dont give me that BS. Heroics, raids, and PvP gear is MUCH better than anything crafted.
WoW is not for everyone, much the same as WAR is not for everyone.
I am saying the same, but I am pointing out that it works, because people apparently like it that way. And having built it into a cycle, it's a natural good thing to avoid it being killed by old age too soon.
The game doesn't get old that way for players playing it... 2 or 3 years. Sounds logic to me. If you see all those other MMORPG's ....
As for crafting: that's your opinion of course, but the 6 months cycle IS also in crafting. The crafted gear is just under the highest raiding gear of the last 2,3 raids. But .... who gets there ? 5% of the players? The others are quite content to buy it.
The supporting professions are even more lucrative (jewellcrafting, alchemy etc...) on the AH. And since the intro of the daily quests, mats sell ... a lot.
But of course the crafting only gets interesting at the highest level of 375. That's correct, but so is the normal leveling.
Hi guys. Could you READ pls the following. Because the old players really don't have ANY clue how WOW works these days......
WOW changed since you played it. It is simple as that.
These days every 6 months a new and better gear is being patched through 4(!) systems.
1. New content hi raid dungeon every 6 months
2. New Arena gear (with required stats) every 6 months
3. New BG gear (reducing the grind in PVE to raid one up higher dungeons). Basic BG gear is about 3% less than highest Arena gear (so 2 lvls lower). Now 3 % isn't that much and certainly does NOT prime skill. So even a NEW level 70 is immeadiatly competitve, because the basic BG gear is high, very high.
4. New crafted gear by players. On par with the drops of the highest raids (1% less acutally).
This is a cycle that didn't exist pre TBC and not even 5 months post TBC. They started it with the arena cycles and ever since the game is a smashing success for the players that actually PLAY it these days.
Think about this system: conclusions:
1. WOW is no longer a pure raiding grinding game (see also the newer batch system and "general" class drops.
2. WOW can be played in a way the player wants it and STILL have access to very good epic gear. (Arena, BG, crafting, Raids, Heroic dungeons, you name it).
3. Your arguments of the "reset" gear thing in WotLK is of course ridiculous now with these post TBC techniques in place. Actually every time the cycle patch is launched every 6 months we see a HUGE playing curve in all these areas.
Add to this the daily quests in EVERY part of the 4 gaming elements (world PvP, BG, Heroics, even crafting).
..... And voila you have the success of WOW these days.
So the "resetting thing" of TBC is completely replaced by the natural cycle Blizz launched already 18 months ago.
Capice???
We were talking about old times. We know exactly how the system works now. It's good that they made PvP gear for PvPers and PvE gear for PvErs respectively.
You're missing the point once again. There is nothing to show for one's work if you totally reset a system with every xpac. Partial resets are fine but making gear totally obsolete and negate tons of hardwork which the game demanded if you wanted to see and completed the latest instances is just bad design.
It's a threadmill system where you are running on the spot all the time. If you run harder and faster, you still get to the same spot.
If they had a world economy like that where they said ok you ear all these assets from working but every few months it resets and you have to start from scratch people just won't bother to work for it.
Just beacause a plausible argument is differing from yours does not make it rediculous unless you counter it with sufficient balanced points, a cycle wiping all hard work does not do that.
Lastly, new content for PvP is not added just as much as PvE content. This is because WoW is a PvE centric game. They give you better loot but guess what, you have to grind it over the same content. The fact that they have the same PvP content over and over with just upgrading the gear is dumb. If you had the same Molten Core and BWL dungeons in TBC only grinding and they just upgraded the gear with the same dungeons for PvE you would be annoyed too.
Don't blindly defend the PvP aspects of a game because you're too jaded to realise it. Balance your opinions and accept the facts that:
PvP content is much slower than PvE content.
Answer me this Teamfortress/Vicksburge/Memoir, do you think that WoW churns as much PvP content as PvE content every patch? Answer it objectively.