Whereas AOC had an absolutely awful combat system requiring ZERO skill or thought
Is this a joke?
Before posting such BS you should actually at least try the game out. The AoC combat is one of the systems that require the most skills in mmorpgs today. Just look at all of the posts of people all over these forums, 50% of the players posting don't even know how to execute a combo while moving (this means death in pvp).
The AoC combat system is very easy to get into, but it's also very difficult to master (this is what makes a powerful system). The better you get at pvp and the more you realize this. Thanks to this system it is possible for a skilled player to kill another one 10 levels higher. I have even seen a lvl 47 kill a lvl 62. Only skill can make such a difference. Show me how many other games are as skill based as this?
AoC still has some flaws, yes. But the combat system is certainly not one of them.
No game where half the classes can one-shot half of the other classes on release, and 2 months after release, is worth anything for pvp. It just shouldnt happen and makes a mockery of any claim that it involves 'skill'. PVP basically was a crowd of players running around in circles trying to land a massive combo on each other, and when they did it was instant death in many cases... or pretty close to it.
The other flaws included the totally borked stamina system where stamina usage and regeneration was totally screwed and inconsistent between some classes, specifically casters and melee classes, and the total lack of any sort of pvp 'system' in the game whatsoever. When half of the game mechanics dont actually work at all, or arent in the game at all, then you cannot talk of skillful or entertaining, balanced PVP.
No, sorry. Youre full of it. No game where half the classes can one-shot half of the other classes on release, and 2 months after release, is worth anything for pvp. It just shouldnt happen and makes a mockery of any claim that it involves 'skill'. PVP basically was a crowd of players running around in circles trying to land a massive combo on each other, and when they did it was instant death in many cases... or pretty close to it. The other flaws included the totally borked stamina system where stamina usage and regeneration was totally screwed and inconsistent between some classes, specifically casters and melee classes, and the total lack of any sort of pvp 'system' in the game whatsoever. When half of the game mechanics dont actually work at all, or arent in the game at all, then you cannot talk of skillful or entertaining, balanced PVP.
Reality check please.
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
I for one do not like the combat system at all in AoC. It's new alright, but that is not neccesary better. And I sure hope this is not the future.
to bad thise type of game was out many year before on console. This kind of system liek entering stuff before and that gonna gave you in futur ACTION mmorpg like god of war so this is one step on this direction and this is really brillant !
No, sorry. Youre full of it. No game where half the classes can one-shot half of the other classes on release, and 2 months after release, is worth anything for pvp. It just shouldnt happen and makes a mockery of any claim that it involves 'skill'. PVP basically was a crowd of players running around in circles trying to land a massive combo on each other, and when they did it was instant death in many cases... or pretty close to it. The other flaws included the totally borked stamina system where stamina usage and regeneration was totally screwed and inconsistent between some classes, specifically casters and melee classes, and the total lack of any sort of pvp 'system' in the game whatsoever. When half of the game mechanics dont actually work at all, or arent in the game at all, then you cannot talk of skillful or entertaining, balanced PVP.
Reality check please.
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
I approve the BigMango's message.
The game is more visceral and more fun than another game of choice recently.
I would rather spend my time in a game that is future proofed than one that is already past it's prime.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by openedge1
Originally posted by BigMango
Originally posted by Lelob
No, sorry. Youre full of it. No game where half the classes can one-shot half of the other classes on release, and 2 months after release, is worth anything for pvp. It just shouldnt happen and makes a mockery of any claim that it involves 'skill'. PVP basically was a crowd of players running around in circles trying to land a massive combo on each other, and when they did it was instant death in many cases... or pretty close to it. The other flaws included the totally borked stamina system where stamina usage and regeneration was totally screwed and inconsistent between some classes, specifically casters and melee classes, and the total lack of any sort of pvp 'system' in the game whatsoever. When half of the game mechanics dont actually work at all, or arent in the game at all, then you cannot talk of skillful or entertaining, balanced PVP.
Reality check please.
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
I approve the BigMango's message.
The game is more visceral and more fun than another game of choice recently.
I would rather spend my time in a game that is future proofed than one that is already past it's prime.
I think BM brings home some good points too.
In relation to the last paragraph he put, thats how I feel about WAR too. I'm not saying its bad, but I also have to agree it's essentially the same stuff. Including pet peeve of floating names above head - not good for PvP.
Why? Combat and graphics. As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm WAR is past and present, AoC is the future. When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR. Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.
grats to you... gbtc?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Whereas AOC had an absolutely awful combat system requiring ZERO skill or thought
Is this a joke?
Before posting such BS you should actually at least try the game out. The AoC combat is one of the systems that require the most skills in mmorpgs today. Just look at all of the posts of people all over these forums, 50% of the players posting don't even know how to execute a combo while moving (this means death in pvp).
The AoC combat system is very easy to get into, but it's also very difficult to master (this is what makes a powerful system). The better you get at pvp and the more you realize this. Thanks to this system it is possible for a skilled player to kill another one 10 levels higher. I have even seen a lvl 47 kill a lvl 62. Only skill can make such a difference. Show me how many other games are as skill based as this?
AoC still has some flaws, yes. But the combat system is certainly not one of them.
the combat system isn't one of them? just the pvp? in a pvp oriented conquering game?
um, ok.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by BigMango As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
I wonder where your revolutionary new PvP features were copied from - I have seen them somewhere before - I remember - in WAR.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
Theres an old saying - If its not broken - dont fix it.
Of course for AOC you would have to rephrase that to say - If its not working - patch it and break something else
No, sorry. Youre full of it. No game where half the classes can one-shot half of the other classes on release, and 2 months after release, is worth anything for pvp. It just shouldnt happen and makes a mockery of any claim that it involves 'skill'. PVP basically was a crowd of players running around in circles trying to land a massive combo on each other, and when they did it was instant death in many cases... or pretty close to it. The other flaws included the totally borked stamina system where stamina usage and regeneration was totally screwed and inconsistent between some classes, specifically casters and melee classes, and the total lack of any sort of pvp 'system' in the game whatsoever. When half of the game mechanics dont actually work at all, or arent in the game at all, then you cannot talk of skillful or entertaining, balanced PVP.
Reality check please.
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
Same old same old? Perhaps that is true but to try and paint AOC combat as something intrinsically different to standard-type MMO combat, except somewhat badly put together MMO combat, is innaccurate. The only main 'differences' to the standard MMO combat are the addition of a class-wide stamina bar, and the fact that melee classes have to use combo attacks.
Now, as Ive mentioned already the stamina system was appallingly implemented, and is (well was when I stopped playing) horribly skewed in how it works as it benefits casters far more than melees due to the ludicrous fact that, when sprinting, it gets used up as a percentage but regenerates as a fixed value. This means that casters all have a huge stamina advantage, especially when they chug stamina potions, which of course they all do. This issue was never addressed adequately and led to some perverse 'balancing' fixes which didnt actually address the problem but rather instead, sought to overpower melee class attacks to over-compensate. Ahhh, the memories of my Dark Templar chasing around casters like a headless chicken while they had never-ending stamina to sprint away whilst I could barely scrape enough together to actually use a combo. Those were the days.
The other 'difference' is that instead of whacking one button for an ability, one must whack 1 button, followed by a little pattern of buttons in a set order (at a set speed too, zzz). This didn't add anything at all in my opinion and I was well and truly bored of this 'whack-a-mole' type combat long before I reached the upper levels. Why is this 'better' or more 'skillful'? It simply clutters up the combat process with a tedious additional chore which feels unrealistic and, essentially, like playing a MMO 3d version of Streetfighter 2 (except a streefighter 2 where one cannot execute the key strokes at one's own pace, but at a predetermined fixed pace - which is so slow it sucks the life out of the combat).
The combination of these two flawed mechanics is that combat is all based around movement. And that's the PROBLEM! Movement is borked and unbalanced due to the stupid way that they made stamina function.
- The small new additions to the genre could have been interesting and fun. However, they were awfully poorly implemented and thus made the whole combat system buggered right from the outset. The differences between WAR at release and AOC on release are like comparing night and day. WAR has had a rigourous, extensive, honest, open and comprehensive BETA period, and the results are there for all to see: a polished game that is worth the money that the customer pays. AOC had a secretive, limited, dishonest BETA period and they ended up with a game that basically wasnt fit for release and still wasn't fit for release 2 months on (around the time I quit). In fact Ill go further and say that WAR in open beta was a million times more 'polished' than AOC was when I quit. In open beta, and to this day, I havent encountered a single bug in WAR, whereas AOC was literally riddled with them on top of all the stuff that just didnt work. How are you not embarassed to defend this game when it was such a mess compared to what went before and what has come after? Even the guy in charge has fallen on his own sword for crying out loud.... does THAT tiny little fact alone not tell you even a little about how this game is going and how it has been received?
I actually think that Godager probably played WAR beta and realised, at that point, just how much of a disaster his own game was and is compared with the competition.
Same old same old? Perhaps that is true but to try and paint AOC combat as something intrinsically different to standard-type MMO combat, except somewhat badly put together MMO combat, is innaccurate.
Yes, when you fail as a player it is the easy way out to say it has a "badly put together MMO combat".
I, as well as many others, like the dynamics of this combat system. But I can understand that you prefer to play with the same old static system.
Originally posted by Lelob
The only main 'differences' to the standard MMO combat are the addition of a class-wide stamina bar, and the fact that melee classes have to use combo attacks.
The only main difference? Again, play the game and then we can talk.
The AoC combat system is so much more than that. It has positional attacks and positional defense, resulting in positional damage, evasion and back flips, you chose where to hit, etc...
When I have several adversaries on me I will need to move and position myself so that my sword swings can damage them all (this makes a huge difference in the number of adversaries you can take on at once - this again requires skill, and not just some simple button mashing). And when I am dual wielding I can chose with which hand and where I want to hit.
Compared to this the same old system WAR uses is only a static button mashing system. You have 3 adversaries on you and you want to try to swing you sword to hit them.... oh sorry you can't swing your sword in WAR, you can only press on attack and you need to wait until you are finished with the first one, then you can go on to the next who didn't take any damage from your sword at all.
How it it possible that I'm in the middle of 5 mobs and 4 of them wont take any damage at all? It's just some factory chain killing... one after the other in a nice queue...
That's the difference between a static and a dynamic system.
I am not saying the WAR combat is bad. I am only saying it's the same old we have seen for 10 years and it is good enough for a cartoon mmo game like WAR. But understand that some of us are just tired of the same old and now want to enjoy a new dynamic combat system in an mmoRPG setting.
I won t even say what i would rather do then play AOC again, i m sure some imaginative minds could figure it out, but WAR is fun and thats all that matters to me. Is it graphically amazing, nope, is it bug free, nope, but in the end when i log on i find 2-3 hours have passed and it felt like1/2 hour. In AOC an hour felt like eternity, it was that bad to me.
I won t even say what i would rather do then play AOC again, i m sure some imaginative minds could figure it out, but WAR is fun and thats all that matters to me. Is it graphically amazing, nope, is it bug free, nope, but in the end when i log on i find 2-3 hours have passed and it felt like1/2 hour. In AOC an hour felt like eternity, it was that bad to me.
Sure, it's like my kids, they prefer to watch cartoons and get bored with the mature movies I enjoy. In the same way they'd rather prefer to play cartoon games like WoW and WAR than the more mature ones like AoC or EVE (and such games aren't for them anyway). To each his own. Glad you are enjoying your time in WAR, that's the only thing that counts
I won t even say what i would rather do then play AOC again, i m sure some imaginative minds could figure it out, but WAR is fun and thats all that matters to me. Is it graphically amazing, nope, is it bug free, nope, but in the end when i log on i find 2-3 hours have passed and it felt like1/2 hour. In AOC an hour felt like eternity, it was that bad to me.
Always awesome when a new game launches.
Of course with each fight against one mob taking anywhere between 1-3 minutes, no wonder you can soak up 2-3 hours.
No thanks, fast visceral, blood pumping combat is more like it.
I won t even say what i would rather do then play AOC again, i m sure some imaginative minds could figure it out, but WAR is fun and thats all that matters to me. Is it graphically amazing, nope, is it bug free, nope, but in the end when i log on i find 2-3 hours have passed and it felt like1/2 hour. In AOC an hour felt like eternity, it was that bad to me.
Always awesome when a new game launches.
Of course with each fight against one mob taking anywhere between 1-3 minutes, no wonder you can soak up 2-3 hours.
No thanks, fast visceral, blood pumping combat is more like it.
I ve been playing WAR alot longer then just a few days, i m sure you can figure oput how. If you like AOC great, i simply didn t, and never will. In all honesty outside graphics which were good, combat that really did drive me nuts, i hated the game simply because i felt so closed in. As i said if you like it great i didn t in the least.
I dont understand this WAR bashing, we all can only hope WAR will do great so players that does not like AoC combat and game mechanics have some other new alternatives.
I really think AoC is a step in right direction ( not the bugs/ unfinished content etc.. ) regarding combat system.
I prefered even more the original system they had (was there in beta) but unfortunately players liked "the old" classic combat whined so much that Funcom decided to dumb it down.
Same old same old? Perhaps that is true but to try and paint AOC combat as something intrinsically different to standard-type MMO combat, except somewhat badly put together MMO combat, is innaccurate.
Yes, when you fail as a player it is the easy way out to say it has a "badly put together MMO combat".
I, as well as may others, like the dynamics of this combat system. But I can understand that you prefer to play with the same old static system.
Originally posted by Lelob
The only main 'differences' to the standard MMO combat are the addition of a class-wide stamina bar, and the fact that melee classes have to use combo attacks.
The only main difference? Again, play the game and then we can talk.
The AoC combat system is so much more than that. It has positional attacks and positional defense, resulting in positional damage, evasion and back flips, you chose where to hit, etc...
When I have several adversaries on me I will need to move and position myself so that my sword swings can damage them all. And when I am dual wielding I can chose with which hand and where I want to hit.
Compared to this the same old system WAR uses is only a static button mashing system. You have 3 adversaries on you and you want to try to swing you sword to hit them.... oh sorry you can't swing your sword in WAR, you can only press on attack and you need to wait until you are finished with the first one, then you can go on to the next who didn't take any damage from your sword at all.
How it it possible that I'm in the middle of 5 mobs and 4 of them wont take any damage at all? It's just some factory chain killing... one after the other in a nice queue...
That's the difference between a static and a dynamic system.
I am not saying the WAR combat is bad. I am only saying it's the same old we have seen for 10 years and it is good enough for a cartoon mmo game like WAR. But understand that some of us are just tired of the same old and now want to enjoy a new dynamic combat system in an mmoRPG setting.
That's great. Your primary argument is, in your last two posts, that I fail as a player, and that only kids prefer games like AOC. Well done.
Well, as to the first comment, that is, well... bollocks, and its stupid of you to make a comment like that without knowing the slightest thing about me. For your information, I played World of Warcraft for a long time and on the last 2 arena seasons I achieved gladiator rank with my main character. Maybe you dont play Warcraft and dont know what that means. Well it means I know how to play. And just as a side note, WOW pvp is about 300 times more skillful and balanced than AOC's is aswell. WAR's may well be, but that remains to be seen. At the level Im at, it certainly is at the moment anyway.
As for kids preferring cartoons. That's again pretty lame to resort to ad hominem nonsense to try and make your points. Im 28. I still think im a kid, but in essence that's irrelevant, I prefer products that WORK! AOC doesnt work! I dislike products that, granted, have a few good ideas contained within them (stamina bar is a good idea, and so is the free swing you mentioned), but when it comes down to it are badly produced and so the good ideas are not thought through or implemented well at all. No one with a brain in their head can say AOC was released in an acceptable fashion. The game was coming down with bugs, half of the feats had shit descriptions and didnt work, the 'skills' also didnt work, stats didnt count for anything, gear was as if made by a random number generator, stamina wasnt balanced, defensive shielding is stupid as it is effectively a big sign saying - "hit me here", etc etc etc etc the list is endless. WAR is balanced at the minute, the PVP is fun, stats work, gear is good, there is a PVP 'system' in place for rewarding players who wish to enjoy that side of the game. Its the polar opposite of the shit-fest that was Funcom's release. Godager's resignation is not a surprise. He looked at his product, then looked at Mythic's product and realised his team had made an awful mess.
Im glad you enjoy the game, but its not skillful, its not working well, its not balanced, and, in my opinion, its not fun.
Why? Combat and graphics. As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm WAR is past and present, AoC is the future. When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR. Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.
Listen to this man he is correct... unless you are going anything but soloing or looking at neat looking abilities.
WAr actually has a balanced group+ based tactical rvr sytem in and it works wonderfully. I mean atm you can not even claim that AOC has pvp content in your still waiting on the patch that was delayed again. When it does go in it will have bugs etc because they have not been beta testing it for the last 8 months, where as war has been beta tested and it works and will continue to improve and work better.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Mattius
Why? Combat and graphics. As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm WAR is past and present, AoC is the future. When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR. Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.
Listen to this man he is correct... unless you are going anything but soloing or looking at neat looking abilities.
WAr actually has a balanced group+ based tactical rvr sytem in and it works wonderfully. I mean atm you can not even claim that AOC has pvp content in your still waiting on the patch that was delayed again. When it does go in it will have bugs etc because they have not been beta testing it for the last 8 months, where as war has been beta tested and it works and will continue to improve and work better.
Opps the PvP Patch went in yesterday Bug free pretty much in PvP too. WAR still has those spells that fly thru 50ft of solid wall though and other major issues but im sure they will get it fixed up quicker that AoC did.
Opps the PvP Patch went in yesterday Bug free pretty much in PvP too. WAR still has those spells that fly thru 50ft of solid wall though and other major issues but im sure they will get it fixed up quicker that AoC did.
PvP is bug-free (apparently, after 1 day), but reportedly the patch broke the t1 raiding part of the game? That does sound like AoC... although I suspect with the new boss that might be about to change .
Anyway, is AoC the 'future'? Not particularly.
- the instancing has turned out to be insanely unpopular, and is unlikely to be copied in future AAA MMOs.
- the graphics system caused too many complications, too many bugs and also relied on the instancing. It's more likely that MMOs will take a WoW/warhammer approach of a 'current generation' graphics engine than trying something cutting edge.
- tortage is a mixture of huge success (quests players give a damn about) combined with huge failure (do it again? aaarrrghhhh!!!!!!). I'd hope MMOs do pay attention to Tortage - some of the ideas are very good, whilst the pitfalls are quite obvious.
- the combat was a bit 'meh' and obviously leaving out magic was a bit odd. Thinking about new ways of doing combat is good, but I don't believe "just pressing more buttons" is enough... Ironically, the shield system was a brilliant idea, but kindof irrelevant due to the combos...
- the "adult" parts of the game - consisting of blood/boobs/some 'adult' storyline was interesting. Certainly the fact that an 15/18+ MMO sold well should allow developers a bit more freedom - which is a good thing.
But the game itself? In MMO-terms you normally get 1 chance to make a first impression, and AoC probably blew it.
Originally posted by Lelob That's great. Your primary argument is, in your last two posts, that I fail as a player, and that only kids prefer games like AOC. Well done. ...
Im glad you enjoy the game, but its not skillful, its not working well, its not balanced, and, in my opinion, its not fun.
Yes you fail as a player, because you are bashing the AoC combat system without knowing anything about it. You went into AoC looking for something that plays like WoW (as you say you played WoW for years) and didn't look past this. You totally missed the combat system features, you didn't even see they were there, but still when this is pointed out to you, you go on bashing it.
As I said, AoC is one of the mmos that requires the most skill. It is a player skill based game (and the fact that it is so easy to get into and understand for new players shows how powerful and thought out this system is), without skill you are nothing in pvp.
Show me another game where:
- where your skill makes a difference so that a player can take down another player 10 levels higher than him? Most other games are only pve gear grind based games, where the ones spending the most hours grinding gear win the fights, and forget about the 2-3 levels difference so let's not even talk about 10 levels.... AoC is about understanding where and how to hit, and about understanding how to fight while moving (you can't just simply press buttons while moving like in the other same old games). Just look at the posts on these forums, 50% of the players are frustrated because they don't even know how to do the basic thing of executing a combo while moving.
- where your skill makes a difference in the number of mobs you can take on? I mean using your skill buttons in the same way in each situation, but in the situation of the bad player he will only be able to fight i.ex 2 mobs at once while a skilled player will use positional attacks and defense, to inflict positional damage and so instead of taking on 2 mobs he will take on 5 at once.
Yes, AoC is not perfect, but it is improving nicely.
As I said, to each his own. You went into AoC looking for another WoW and you did not find it. I went into WAR looking for something different, and I did not find it. We are all looking for some different things in these games, and this is why there are fortunately so many different games. I am glad you are having fun in WAR
I have to agree with BigMango's basic premise, its something i have been saying for a while. Too many people have been brought up on MMO combat like that of WoW's, came to Conan, and found out it was not.
Meanwhile people looking for something more visceral, and player skill based, loved it.
Lots of people left becouse they could not get past "Standing in one spot and spamming skills" game play from other mmo's.
Those that go on saying "your pressing 5 buttons to do one skill" are completely wrong, and approaching the system wrong. You are timing 5 attacks that produce a fianl effect, but those 5 attacks are timed by you, not an arbitrary timer, you (only limited by the speed of your weapon). Much like a FPS game, infact nothing int he game is cued up, its all real time reactions.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Why? Combat and graphics. As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm WAR is past and present, AoC is the future. When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR. Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.
Listen to this man he is correct... unless you are going anything but soloing or looking at neat looking abilities.
WAr actually has a balanced group+ based tactical rvr sytem in and it works wonderfully. I mean atm you can not even claim that AOC has pvp content in your still waiting on the patch that was delayed again. When it does go in it will have bugs etc because they have not been beta testing it for the last 8 months, where as war has been beta tested and it works and will continue to improve and work better.
Uh...sorry.
Patch launched yesterday...you are behind on the news.
And it is working, and people are having a great time.
Go look at the AoC forums to corroborate this, as it is open for others to see.
WAR is still what we have already played with a difference in grouping mechanics.
Originally posted by Lelob That's great. Your primary argument is, in your last two posts, that I fail as a player, and that only kids prefer games like AOC. Well done. ...
Im glad you enjoy the game, but its not skillful, its not working well, its not balanced, and, in my opinion, its not fun.
Yes you fail as a player, because you are bashing the AoC combat system without knowing anything about it. You went into AoC looking for something that plays like WoW (as you say you played WoW for years) and didn't look past this. You totally missed the combat system features, you didn't even see they were there, but still when this is pointed out to you, you go on bashing it.
As I said, AoC is one of the mmos that requires the most skill. It is a player skill based game (and the fact that it is so easy to get into and understand for new players shows how powerful and thought out this system is), without skill you are nothing in pvp.
Show me another game where:
- where your skill makes a difference so that a player can take down another player 10 levels higher than him? Most other games are only pve gear grind based games, where the ones spending the most hours grinding gear win the fights, and forget about the 2-3 levels difference so let's not even talk about 10 levels.... AoC is about understanding where and how to hit, and about understanding how to fight while moving (you can't just simply press buttons while moving like in the other same old games). Just look at the posts on these forums, 50% of the players are frustrated because they don't even know how to do the basic thing of executing a combo while moving.
- where your skill makes a difference in the number of mobs you can take on? I mean using your skill buttons in the same way in each situation, but in the situation of the bad player he will only be able to fight i.ex 2 mobs at once while a skilled player will use positional attacks and defense, to inflict positional damage and so instead of taking on 2 mobs he will take on 5 at once.
Yes, AoC is not perfect, but it is improving nicely.
As I said, to each his own. You went into AoC looking for another WoW and you did not find it. I went into WAR looking for something different, and I did not find it. We are all looking for some different things in these games, and this is why there are fortunately so many different games. I am glad you are having fun in WAR
What an absolute load of baloney from start to finish. Again you say I 'fail as a player' because I dont know anything about it. What did I not know about it? What have I not mentioned in my posts? What amazing thing about AOC pvp have I missed?
Nothing. I have mentioned the parts of it that are worth mentioning, yet again you just babble on that I dont have a clue. Im afraid that it is you that doesn't have a clue. You can't see that this 'skillful' system you think is so revolutionary is mangled beyond belief and was failing to function a whole 2 months after it was released.
Please tell me why stamina is so skewed between classes. Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos? And, given this is the case, explain to me why stamina potions should massively favour caster classes? As you will know, being an expert on this wonderfully thought out system (funniest comment ive read in months by the way - you did know that the PVP patch only arrived today - 4 months after release, didnt you? Wonderfully thought out system I agree lol), when one sprints in AOC, your stamina is sapped as a percentage. However, when it regens, it regens as a set figure. So as casters have smaller stamina bars, they are able to sprint far more than melee classes, as their bar fills up again faster. This is compounded by the regular PVP situation where all pots are in use. As a result, good casters should always technically destroy melee classes as they should be able to maintain a distance. This issue was NEVER addressed during my AOC playtime and it was the primary reason for all misbalance between classes. With my necro I used to face roll my way to easy wins against any melee class within 10-15 levels above or below. I got the same treatment in return from Demos, Necros and TOS with my templar. Its not because the game is skillful that people are able to beat players of higher level. Its because the hole combat system is toss. See point about stamina above for the primary reason for this.
You havent even attempted to address this issue which makes me think you either dont understand it, or you cant see how it unbalances the entire game.
While you're at it, you can tell me why several of the skills did not work at any point during the 2 months that I played the game. I mainly refer to the 'improve run speed skill' but Im sure there were others that didnt work - I just cant remember now. You can also explain to me why, in this wonderfully thought out system, Funcom elected to make repeated and huge changes to the entire functionality of combos. Im sure, being the wonderful pvper that you are, you remember that originally, if you landed the last part of the combo you got full damage for it. They had to change that didnt they? Really well thought out. Its not like its a core game mechanic and combat feature is it!? They also had to, I hope, (as they were still going when I last paid) nerf those wonderful instagib attacks from Bear shamans (cant remember attack name now) and skewers from Guardians.
And saying this game isn't like WOW is almost laughable beyond belief. The game is almost a clone apart from these 'groundbreaking' features you talk about. Take away the combos (pointless and dull), stamina (doesnt work and isnt balanced), shielding (lol - waste of time) and free swings (nice idea I agree), dumb down the graphics a bit and hey presto - youve got a shit version of world of warcraft with about 1 percent of the content.
Aoc was and is a total disaster. One only needs to spend some time playing a brand new game like WAR to see what a laughable disaster it really was. I know youre going to just keep ignoring all the Funcom spin, resignations, falling stock, crashing subscription figures, empty guilds, and just keep telling yourself that we just all got it all wrong, all of us, and keep on putting your fingers in your ears saying 'LALALLALALALALAL' but eventually you will open your eyes and see that no one else plays the game anymore. I am genuinely glad you enjoy the game. We all have different tastes, but personally I value competence, stability, techical efficiency, communication and most importantly FUN, over some half baked, badly implemented, revolutionary 'ideas' that are probably the only thing keeping this dead duck afloat at the moment.
I know the response is likely to be along the lines of 'You fail as a player nOOb, you dont understand it, my level 45 necro owns level 60 dark templars with skillz so this game is about skillz' again, which about sums up what you said above, but Ill hold out some hope for some sense and see where that gets us.
Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos?
Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:
1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Comments
Is this a joke?
Before posting such BS you should actually at least try the game out. The AoC combat is one of the systems that require the most skills in mmorpgs today. Just look at all of the posts of people all over these forums, 50% of the players posting don't even know how to execute a combo while moving (this means death in pvp).
The AoC combat system is very easy to get into, but it's also very difficult to master (this is what makes a powerful system). The better you get at pvp and the more you realize this. Thanks to this system it is possible for a skilled player to kill another one 10 levels higher. I have even seen a lvl 47 kill a lvl 62. Only skill can make such a difference. Show me how many other games are as skill based as this?
AoC still has some flaws, yes. But the combat system is certainly not one of them.
No, sorry. Youre full of it.
No game where half the classes can one-shot half of the other classes on release, and 2 months after release, is worth anything for pvp. It just shouldnt happen and makes a mockery of any claim that it involves 'skill'. PVP basically was a crowd of players running around in circles trying to land a massive combo on each other, and when they did it was instant death in many cases... or pretty close to it.
The other flaws included the totally borked stamina system where stamina usage and regeneration was totally screwed and inconsistent between some classes, specifically casters and melee classes, and the total lack of any sort of pvp 'system' in the game whatsoever. When half of the game mechanics dont actually work at all, or arent in the game at all, then you cannot talk of skillful or entertaining, balanced PVP.
Reality check please.
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
to bad thise type of game was out many year before on console. This kind of system liek entering stuff before and that gonna gave you in futur ACTION mmorpg like god of war
so this is one step on this direction and this is really brillant !
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
I approve the BigMango's message.
The game is more visceral and more fun than another game of choice recently.
I would rather spend my time in a game that is future proofed than one that is already past it's prime.
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
I approve the BigMango's message.
The game is more visceral and more fun than another game of choice recently.
I would rather spend my time in a game that is future proofed than one that is already past it's prime.
I think BM brings home some good points too.
In relation to the last paragraph he put, thats how I feel about WAR too. I'm not saying its bad, but I also have to agree it's essentially the same stuff. Including pet peeve of floating names above head - not good for PvP.
grats to you... gbtc?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Is this a joke?
Before posting such BS you should actually at least try the game out. The AoC combat is one of the systems that require the most skills in mmorpgs today. Just look at all of the posts of people all over these forums, 50% of the players posting don't even know how to execute a combo while moving (this means death in pvp).
The AoC combat system is very easy to get into, but it's also very difficult to master (this is what makes a powerful system). The better you get at pvp and the more you realize this. Thanks to this system it is possible for a skilled player to kill another one 10 levels higher. I have even seen a lvl 47 kill a lvl 62. Only skill can make such a difference. Show me how many other games are as skill based as this?
AoC still has some flaws, yes. But the combat system is certainly not one of them.
the combat system isn't one of them? just the pvp? in a pvp oriented conquering game?
um, ok.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I wonder where your revolutionary new PvP features were copied from - I have seen them somewhere before - I remember - in WAR.
Theres an old saying - If its not broken - dont fix it.
Of course for AOC you would have to rephrase that to say - If its not working - patch it and break something else
Your post just shows you know nothing about what you are talking.
Yes, the "1 shotting" problem was there and it had nothing to do with what you were saying. This problem was introduced 1 month after launch with the gems system, making gemmed items much too strong. This has been fixed.
Then, there were, and probably still are, some class balancing issues that need to be improved. This is normal mmorpg business, what mmorpg didn't have them during the first months of launch? Even WoW is still balancing classes today, 4 years after release.
As for the pvp system, it has always been there and has now been improved with pvp xp, pvp levels and pvp gear.
But anyway, you are happy with the same old.... same old.... same old... same old... we have seen for the past 10 years and this is what WAR is giving you today in 2008-2009. So please go play your same old and leave us playing something new, different and refreshing. I welcome the change.
Same old same old? Perhaps that is true but to try and paint AOC combat as something intrinsically different to standard-type MMO combat, except somewhat badly put together MMO combat, is innaccurate. The only main 'differences' to the standard MMO combat are the addition of a class-wide stamina bar, and the fact that melee classes have to use combo attacks.
Now, as Ive mentioned already the stamina system was appallingly implemented, and is (well was when I stopped playing) horribly skewed in how it works as it benefits casters far more than melees due to the ludicrous fact that, when sprinting, it gets used up as a percentage but regenerates as a fixed value. This means that casters all have a huge stamina advantage, especially when they chug stamina potions, which of course they all do. This issue was never addressed adequately and led to some perverse 'balancing' fixes which didnt actually address the problem but rather instead, sought to overpower melee class attacks to over-compensate. Ahhh, the memories of my Dark Templar chasing around casters like a headless chicken while they had never-ending stamina to sprint away whilst I could barely scrape enough together to actually use a combo. Those were the days.
The other 'difference' is that instead of whacking one button for an ability, one must whack 1 button, followed by a little pattern of buttons in a set order (at a set speed too, zzz). This didn't add anything at all in my opinion and I was well and truly bored of this 'whack-a-mole' type combat long before I reached the upper levels. Why is this 'better' or more 'skillful'? It simply clutters up the combat process with a tedious additional chore which feels unrealistic and, essentially, like playing a MMO 3d version of Streetfighter 2 (except a streefighter 2 where one cannot execute the key strokes at one's own pace, but at a predetermined fixed pace - which is so slow it sucks the life out of the combat).
The combination of these two flawed mechanics is that combat is all based around movement. And that's the PROBLEM! Movement is borked and unbalanced due to the stupid way that they made stamina function.
- The small new additions to the genre could have been interesting and fun. However, they were awfully poorly implemented and thus made the whole combat system buggered right from the outset. The differences between WAR at release and AOC on release are like comparing night and day. WAR has had a rigourous, extensive, honest, open and comprehensive BETA period, and the results are there for all to see: a polished game that is worth the money that the customer pays. AOC had a secretive, limited, dishonest BETA period and they ended up with a game that basically wasnt fit for release and still wasn't fit for release 2 months on (around the time I quit). In fact Ill go further and say that WAR in open beta was a million times more 'polished' than AOC was when I quit. In open beta, and to this day, I havent encountered a single bug in WAR, whereas AOC was literally riddled with them on top of all the stuff that just didnt work. How are you not embarassed to defend this game when it was such a mess compared to what went before and what has come after? Even the guy in charge has fallen on his own sword for crying out loud.... does THAT tiny little fact alone not tell you even a little about how this game is going and how it has been received?
I actually think that Godager probably played WAR beta and realised, at that point, just how much of a disaster his own game was and is compared with the competition.
Yes, when you fail as a player it is the easy way out to say it has a "badly put together MMO combat".
I, as well as many others, like the dynamics of this combat system. But I can understand that you prefer to play with the same old static system.
The only main difference? Again, play the game and then we can talk.
The AoC combat system is so much more than that. It has positional attacks and positional defense, resulting in positional damage, evasion and back flips, you chose where to hit, etc...
When I have several adversaries on me I will need to move and position myself so that my sword swings can damage them all (this makes a huge difference in the number of adversaries you can take on at once - this again requires skill, and not just some simple button mashing). And when I am dual wielding I can chose with which hand and where I want to hit.
Compared to this the same old system WAR uses is only a static button mashing system. You have 3 adversaries on you and you want to try to swing you sword to hit them.... oh sorry you can't swing your sword in WAR, you can only press on attack and you need to wait until you are finished with the first one, then you can go on to the next who didn't take any damage from your sword at all.
How it it possible that I'm in the middle of 5 mobs and 4 of them wont take any damage at all? It's just some factory chain killing... one after the other in a nice queue...
That's the difference between a static and a dynamic system.
I am not saying the WAR combat is bad. I am only saying it's the same old we have seen for 10 years and it is good enough for a cartoon mmo game like WAR. But understand that some of us are just tired of the same old and now want to enjoy a new dynamic combat system in an mmoRPG setting.
I won t even say what i would rather do then play AOC again, i m sure some imaginative minds could figure it out, but WAR is fun and thats all that matters to me. Is it graphically amazing, nope, is it bug free, nope, but in the end when i log on i find 2-3 hours have passed and it felt like1/2 hour. In AOC an hour felt like eternity, it was that bad to me.
Sure, it's like my kids, they prefer to watch cartoons and get bored with the mature movies I enjoy. In the same way they'd rather prefer to play cartoon games like WoW and WAR than the more mature ones like AoC or EVE (and such games aren't for them anyway). To each his own. Glad you are enjoying your time in WAR, that's the only thing that counts
Always awesome when a new game launches.
Of course with each fight against one mob taking anywhere between 1-3 minutes, no wonder you can soak up 2-3 hours.
No thanks, fast visceral, blood pumping combat is more like it.
Always awesome when a new game launches.
Of course with each fight against one mob taking anywhere between 1-3 minutes, no wonder you can soak up 2-3 hours.
No thanks, fast visceral, blood pumping combat is more like it.
I ve been playing WAR alot longer then just a few days, i m sure you can figure oput how. If you like AOC great, i simply didn t, and never will. In all honesty outside graphics which were good, combat that really did drive me nuts, i hated the game simply because i felt so closed in. As i said if you like it great i didn t in the least.
I dont understand this WAR bashing, we all can only hope WAR will do great so players that does not like AoC combat and game mechanics have some other new alternatives.
I really think AoC is a step in right direction ( not the bugs/ unfinished content etc.. ) regarding combat system.
I prefered even more the original system they had (was there in beta) but unfortunately players liked "the old" classic combat whined so much that Funcom decided to dumb it down.
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
Yes, when you fail as a player it is the easy way out to say it has a "badly put together MMO combat".
I, as well as may others, like the dynamics of this combat system. But I can understand that you prefer to play with the same old static system.
The only main difference? Again, play the game and then we can talk.
The AoC combat system is so much more than that. It has positional attacks and positional defense, resulting in positional damage, evasion and back flips, you chose where to hit, etc...
When I have several adversaries on me I will need to move and position myself so that my sword swings can damage them all. And when I am dual wielding I can chose with which hand and where I want to hit.
Compared to this the same old system WAR uses is only a static button mashing system. You have 3 adversaries on you and you want to try to swing you sword to hit them.... oh sorry you can't swing your sword in WAR, you can only press on attack and you need to wait until you are finished with the first one, then you can go on to the next who didn't take any damage from your sword at all.
How it it possible that I'm in the middle of 5 mobs and 4 of them wont take any damage at all? It's just some factory chain killing... one after the other in a nice queue...
That's the difference between a static and a dynamic system.
I am not saying the WAR combat is bad. I am only saying it's the same old we have seen for 10 years and it is good enough for a cartoon mmo game like WAR. But understand that some of us are just tired of the same old and now want to enjoy a new dynamic combat system in an mmoRPG setting.
That's great. Your primary argument is, in your last two posts, that I fail as a player, and that only kids prefer games like AOC. Well done.
Well, as to the first comment, that is, well... bollocks, and its stupid of you to make a comment like that without knowing the slightest thing about me. For your information, I played World of Warcraft for a long time and on the last 2 arena seasons I achieved gladiator rank with my main character. Maybe you dont play Warcraft and dont know what that means. Well it means I know how to play. And just as a side note, WOW pvp is about 300 times more skillful and balanced than AOC's is aswell. WAR's may well be, but that remains to be seen. At the level Im at, it certainly is at the moment anyway.
As for kids preferring cartoons. That's again pretty lame to resort to ad hominem nonsense to try and make your points. Im 28. I still think im a kid, but in essence that's irrelevant, I prefer products that WORK! AOC doesnt work! I dislike products that, granted, have a few good ideas contained within them (stamina bar is a good idea, and so is the free swing you mentioned), but when it comes down to it are badly produced and so the good ideas are not thought through or implemented well at all. No one with a brain in their head can say AOC was released in an acceptable fashion. The game was coming down with bugs, half of the feats had shit descriptions and didnt work, the 'skills' also didnt work, stats didnt count for anything, gear was as if made by a random number generator, stamina wasnt balanced, defensive shielding is stupid as it is effectively a big sign saying - "hit me here", etc etc etc etc the list is endless. WAR is balanced at the minute, the PVP is fun, stats work, gear is good, there is a PVP 'system' in place for rewarding players who wish to enjoy that side of the game. Its the polar opposite of the shit-fest that was Funcom's release. Godager's resignation is not a surprise. He looked at his product, then looked at Mythic's product and realised his team had made an awful mess.
Im glad you enjoy the game, but its not skillful, its not working well, its not balanced, and, in my opinion, its not fun.
Listen to this man he is correct... unless you are going anything but soloing or looking at neat looking abilities.
WAr actually has a balanced group+ based tactical rvr sytem in and it works wonderfully. I mean atm you can not even claim that AOC has pvp content in your still waiting on the patch that was delayed again. When it does go in it will have bugs etc because they have not been beta testing it for the last 8 months, where as war has been beta tested and it works and will continue to improve and work better.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Listen to this man he is correct... unless you are going anything but soloing or looking at neat looking abilities.
WAr actually has a balanced group+ based tactical rvr sytem in and it works wonderfully. I mean atm you can not even claim that AOC has pvp content in your still waiting on the patch that was delayed again. When it does go in it will have bugs etc because they have not been beta testing it for the last 8 months, where as war has been beta tested and it works and will continue to improve and work better.
Opps the PvP Patch went in yesterday
Bug free pretty much in PvP too. WAR still has those spells that fly thru 50ft of solid wall though and other major issues but im sure they will get it fixed up quicker that AoC did.
PvP is bug-free (apparently, after 1 day), but reportedly the patch broke the t1 raiding part of the game? That does sound like AoC... although I suspect with the new boss that might be about to change
Anyway, is AoC the 'future'? Not particularly.
- the instancing has turned out to be insanely unpopular, and is unlikely to be copied in future AAA MMOs.
- the graphics system caused too many complications, too many bugs and also relied on the instancing. It's more likely that MMOs will take a WoW/warhammer approach of a 'current generation' graphics engine than trying something cutting edge.
- tortage is a mixture of huge success (quests players give a damn about) combined with huge failure (do it again? aaarrrghhhh!!!!!!). I'd hope MMOs do pay attention to Tortage - some of the ideas are very good, whilst the pitfalls are quite obvious.
- the combat was a bit 'meh' and obviously leaving out magic was a bit odd. Thinking about new ways of doing combat is good, but I don't believe "just pressing more buttons" is enough... Ironically, the shield system was a brilliant idea, but kindof irrelevant due to the combos...
- the "adult" parts of the game - consisting of blood/boobs/some 'adult' storyline was interesting. Certainly the fact that an 15/18+ MMO sold well should allow developers a bit more freedom - which is a good thing.
But the game itself? In MMO-terms you normally get 1 chance to make a first impression, and AoC probably blew it.
Yes you fail as a player, because you are bashing the AoC combat system without knowing anything about it. You went into AoC looking for something that plays like WoW (as you say you played WoW for years) and didn't look past this. You totally missed the combat system features, you didn't even see they were there, but still when this is pointed out to you, you go on bashing it.
As I said, AoC is one of the mmos that requires the most skill. It is a player skill based game (and the fact that it is so easy to get into and understand for new players shows how powerful and thought out this system is), without skill you are nothing in pvp.
Show me another game where:
- where your skill makes a difference so that a player can take down another player 10 levels higher than him? Most other games are only pve gear grind based games, where the ones spending the most hours grinding gear win the fights, and forget about the 2-3 levels difference so let's not even talk about 10 levels.... AoC is about understanding where and how to hit, and about understanding how to fight while moving (you can't just simply press buttons while moving like in the other same old games). Just look at the posts on these forums, 50% of the players are frustrated because they don't even know how to do the basic thing of executing a combo while moving.
- where your skill makes a difference in the number of mobs you can take on? I mean using your skill buttons in the same way in each situation, but in the situation of the bad player he will only be able to fight i.ex 2 mobs at once while a skilled player will use positional attacks and defense, to inflict positional damage and so instead of taking on 2 mobs he will take on 5 at once.
Yes, AoC is not perfect, but it is improving nicely.
As I said, to each his own. You went into AoC looking for another WoW and you did not find it. I went into WAR looking for something different, and I did not find it. We are all looking for some different things in these games, and this is why there are fortunately so many different games. I am glad you are having fun in WAR
I have to agree with BigMango's basic premise, its something i have been saying for a while. Too many people have been brought up on MMO combat like that of WoW's, came to Conan, and found out it was not.
Meanwhile people looking for something more visceral, and player skill based, loved it.
Lots of people left becouse they could not get past "Standing in one spot and spamming skills" game play from other mmo's.
Those that go on saying "your pressing 5 buttons to do one skill" are completely wrong, and approaching the system wrong. You are timing 5 attacks that produce a fianl effect, but those 5 attacks are timed by you, not an arbitrary timer, you (only limited by the speed of your weapon). Much like a FPS game, infact nothing int he game is cued up, its all real time reactions.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Listen to this man he is correct... unless you are going anything but soloing or looking at neat looking abilities.
WAr actually has a balanced group+ based tactical rvr sytem in and it works wonderfully. I mean atm you can not even claim that AOC has pvp content in your still waiting on the patch that was delayed again. When it does go in it will have bugs etc because they have not been beta testing it for the last 8 months, where as war has been beta tested and it works and will continue to improve and work better.
Uh...sorry.
Patch launched yesterday...you are behind on the news.
And it is working, and people are having a great time.
Go look at the AoC forums to corroborate this, as it is open for others to see.
WAR is still what we have already played with a difference in grouping mechanics.
Still old school
Yes you fail as a player, because you are bashing the AoC combat system without knowing anything about it. You went into AoC looking for something that plays like WoW (as you say you played WoW for years) and didn't look past this. You totally missed the combat system features, you didn't even see they were there, but still when this is pointed out to you, you go on bashing it.
As I said, AoC is one of the mmos that requires the most skill. It is a player skill based game (and the fact that it is so easy to get into and understand for new players shows how powerful and thought out this system is), without skill you are nothing in pvp.
Show me another game where:
- where your skill makes a difference so that a player can take down another player 10 levels higher than him? Most other games are only pve gear grind based games, where the ones spending the most hours grinding gear win the fights, and forget about the 2-3 levels difference so let's not even talk about 10 levels.... AoC is about understanding where and how to hit, and about understanding how to fight while moving (you can't just simply press buttons while moving like in the other same old games). Just look at the posts on these forums, 50% of the players are frustrated because they don't even know how to do the basic thing of executing a combo while moving.
- where your skill makes a difference in the number of mobs you can take on? I mean using your skill buttons in the same way in each situation, but in the situation of the bad player he will only be able to fight i.ex 2 mobs at once while a skilled player will use positional attacks and defense, to inflict positional damage and so instead of taking on 2 mobs he will take on 5 at once.
Yes, AoC is not perfect, but it is improving nicely.
As I said, to each his own. You went into AoC looking for another WoW and you did not find it. I went into WAR looking for something different, and I did not find it. We are all looking for some different things in these games, and this is why there are fortunately so many different games. I am glad you are having fun in WAR
What an absolute load of baloney from start to finish. Again you say I 'fail as a player' because I dont know anything about it. What did I not know about it? What have I not mentioned in my posts? What amazing thing about AOC pvp have I missed?
Nothing. I have mentioned the parts of it that are worth mentioning, yet again you just babble on that I dont have a clue. Im afraid that it is you that doesn't have a clue. You can't see that this 'skillful' system you think is so revolutionary is mangled beyond belief and was failing to function a whole 2 months after it was released.
Please tell me why stamina is so skewed between classes. Why is it that both casters and melee use stamina to sprint but only melee use stamina for combos? And, given this is the case, explain to me why stamina potions should massively favour caster classes? As you will know, being an expert on this wonderfully thought out system (funniest comment ive read in months by the way - you did know that the PVP patch only arrived today - 4 months after release, didnt you? Wonderfully thought out system I agree lol), when one sprints in AOC, your stamina is sapped as a percentage. However, when it regens, it regens as a set figure. So as casters have smaller stamina bars, they are able to sprint far more than melee classes, as their bar fills up again faster. This is compounded by the regular PVP situation where all pots are in use. As a result, good casters should always technically destroy melee classes as they should be able to maintain a distance. This issue was NEVER addressed during my AOC playtime and it was the primary reason for all misbalance between classes. With my necro I used to face roll my way to easy wins against any melee class within 10-15 levels above or below. I got the same treatment in return from Demos, Necros and TOS with my templar. Its not because the game is skillful that people are able to beat players of higher level. Its because the hole combat system is toss. See point about stamina above for the primary reason for this.
You havent even attempted to address this issue which makes me think you either dont understand it, or you cant see how it unbalances the entire game.
While you're at it, you can tell me why several of the skills did not work at any point during the 2 months that I played the game. I mainly refer to the 'improve run speed skill' but Im sure there were others that didnt work - I just cant remember now. You can also explain to me why, in this wonderfully thought out system, Funcom elected to make repeated and huge changes to the entire functionality of combos. Im sure, being the wonderful pvper that you are, you remember that originally, if you landed the last part of the combo you got full damage for it. They had to change that didnt they? Really well thought out. Its not like its a core game mechanic and combat feature is it!? They also had to, I hope, (as they were still going when I last paid) nerf those wonderful instagib attacks from Bear shamans (cant remember attack name now) and skewers from Guardians.
And saying this game isn't like WOW is almost laughable beyond belief. The game is almost a clone apart from these 'groundbreaking' features you talk about. Take away the combos (pointless and dull), stamina (doesnt work and isnt balanced), shielding (lol - waste of time) and free swings (nice idea I agree), dumb down the graphics a bit and hey presto - youve got a shit version of world of warcraft with about 1 percent of the content.
Aoc was and is a total disaster. One only needs to spend some time playing a brand new game like WAR to see what a laughable disaster it really was. I know youre going to just keep ignoring all the Funcom spin, resignations, falling stock, crashing subscription figures, empty guilds, and just keep telling yourself that we just all got it all wrong, all of us, and keep on putting your fingers in your ears saying 'LALALLALALALALAL' but eventually you will open your eyes and see that no one else plays the game anymore. I am genuinely glad you enjoy the game. We all have different tastes, but personally I value competence, stability, techical efficiency, communication and most importantly FUN, over some half baked, badly implemented, revolutionary 'ideas' that are probably the only thing keeping this dead duck afloat at the moment.
I know the response is likely to be along the lines of 'You fail as a player nOOb, you dont understand it, my level 45 necro owns level 60 dark templars with skillz so this game is about skillz' again, which about sums up what you said above, but Ill hold out some hope for some sense and see where that gets us.
Because your wrong, all casters use stamina for spells as well. You said you played a necromancer, you should know this.
The rest of your post, you are just really really bad at the combat in AOC.
Also, most of what you are talking about in your post is:
1: Old info
2: Incorrect
3: Exactly what we were taking about, you approached it as if its typical MMO combat, its not, you got pawned.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me