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I hope they make Black Guards this overpowered

2

Comments

  • rangharranghar Member UncommonPosts: 145

    That is pretty horrible damage since if I just dps as a warrior priest. img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ranghar/RangharM_031.jpg

    I can get 100k.

    Hell, I did that much damage at T2

    img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ranghar/omgdps.jpg

    Also, why does it say time elapsed: 0:00?

    Ranghar LoD
    Lords of Death

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by Endlos

    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    A) I'm a level 20 Warrior Priest and I have about 3000 health and about 50% damage reduction not to mention some Toughness on top of that. So because I get my arse stomped constantly by Witch Elves, that makes them OPed?
    B) Anyways, I'm sure this critical hit was pretty uncommon, so it's not like it happens all the time.
    C) Black Orcs get the same knock back ability as the Iron Breaker, so thats nothing to point out.



     

    A) A witch elf is a melee dps class with paper armor and low HP totals that gets ripped apart in mere moments, even by splash AOE, if they aren't backed by a healer.  An Ironbreaker is more or less tied with the other three tanks in terms of "virtually impossible to kill if they have healers unless 4 BWs (or Sorcs in the case of Destro) focus fire on them" and putting out that kind of damage.  See where your comaparison is flawed?

    B) Unless I am mistaken, I believe the basic math for a normal critical hit is 150% damage.  It's a lot, but not earth-shattering.  Pun intended.  This means the non-crit version of that attack from a tank would have been around 850 damage.  From a tank.  In a 30-foot AOE.  From a tank.  Saying "well it was a Crit so that makes it okay" really doesn't hold water when you are, in effect, defending the validity of a tank class dropping an 850 damage AOE (every 20 seconds, with no mechanic or morale cost I might add).

    C) No, they don't.

    As for why I didn't mitigate more than two damage from that grossly overpowered attack, I honestly don't know.  Maybe I was armor stripped beforehand, as armor strips and reductions are common for both sides.  That's the only thing I can figure offhand for why the full damage went through.

    I am a Witch Elf and the highest I have ever crit another player for was 900.  Just because we can shut down healers quickly does not make WEs OP.  The fact that a tank crit another tank for 1/4 of his health is OP.

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  • Wow those are some awful Bright Wizards.  I have gotten 20k damage on a WP in Tier 2.

     

    I love misleading Scenario screen shots  like this.  That IB is not overpowered, your team just sucked.

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by gestalt11


    Wow those are some awful Bright Wizards.  I have gotten 20k damage on a WP in Tier 2.
     
    I love misleading Scenario screen shots  like this.  That IB is not overpowered, your team just sucked.

    When no decent argument can be brought into play. . .toss out the "you suck" excuse.

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  • rangharranghar Member UncommonPosts: 145

    My arguement for why their damage sucks is a couple screenshots in my post above this one. Honestly though, there are some items that are flagged as 1h but are 2h stats. ironbreaker has some and black orc has some. I haven't looked at the guys items, he might be using a bugged weapon.

     

    Edit: Also you shouldn't be complaining about anything atm since destruction on the phoenix throne just farm us for 15 minutes in t4 every game.

    Ranghar LoD
    Lords of Death

  • Originally posted by Locklain

    Originally posted by gestalt11


    Wow those are some awful Bright Wizards.  I have gotten 20k damage on a WP in Tier 2.
     
    I love misleading Scenario screen shots  like this.  That IB is not overpowered, your team just sucked.

    When no decent argument can be brought into play. . .toss out the "you suck" excuse.

     

    No that is not an excuse.  Its a fact.  20k damage in for a brght wizard in T3 is awful. 

     

    Ok let me put this in perspective I got 16k damage in T1 on my IB in Nordenwatch a couple hours ago.  There was a BW in that scenario, who was level 10 who got 21k damage.

     

    So that guy who was 5th in damage did as much damage as a level 10 BW in Nordenwatch.

     

    This is not an excuse those BW sucked unless that scenario lasted 3 minutes.

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by ranghar


    My arguement for why their damage sucks is a couple screenshots in my post above this one. Honestly though, there are some items that are flagged as 1h but are 2h stats. ironbreaker has some and black orc has some. I haven't looked at the guys items, he might be using a bugged weapon.
     
    Edit: Also you shouldn't be complaining about anything atm since destruction on the phoenix throne just farm us for 15 minutes in t4 every game.

    Yep, and just the other day Order was in The Maw preparing for siege on IC.  Good thing we do nothing but "farm" you all day long. 

    Phoenix Throne is the closest balanced server I have seen between Order and Destruction.  The last time someone did a census on Phoenix Throne the balance was 1.2 : 1 thats pretty close.

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  • rangharranghar Member UncommonPosts: 145
    Originally posted by Locklain

    Originally posted by ranghar


    My arguement for why their damage sucks is a couple screenshots in my post above this one. Honestly though, there are some items that are flagged as 1h but are 2h stats. ironbreaker has some and black orc has some. I haven't looked at the guys items, he might be using a bugged weapon.
     
    Edit: Also you shouldn't be complaining about anything atm since destruction on the phoenix throne just farm us for 15 minutes in t4 every game.

    Yep, and just the other day Order was in The Maw preparing for siege on IC.  Good thing we do nothing but "farm" you all day long. 

    Phoenix Throne is the closest balanced server I have seen between Order and Destruction.  The last time someone did a census on Phoenix Throne the balance was 1.2 : 1 thats pretty close.

    Yeah the balance is fine, but we can't win T4 scenarios at the moment. Yeah we win maybe 1 outta 4 or 5, but at this moment in time destruction has a hell of a lot more 40's than we do. This will all be sorted out soon. Then we will start to roll you guys in t4 scenarios...until then, you should be farming us for renown and complaining about op'd classes once we start to do the same to you guys =p

     

    edit: as for the IC thing there arn't nearly enough lvl 40's to actually take IC. We may get in there, but it will be pointless because all the mobs we need to kill are over lvl 40 and hit harder than anything in the game. Just don't have the man power yet, but stay tuned...we will soon =)

    Ranghar LoD
    Lords of Death

  • LocklainLocklain Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by ranghar

    Originally posted by Locklain

    Originally posted by ranghar


    My arguement for why their damage sucks is a couple screenshots in my post above this one. Honestly though, there are some items that are flagged as 1h but are 2h stats. ironbreaker has some and black orc has some. I haven't looked at the guys items, he might be using a bugged weapon.
     
    Edit: Also you shouldn't be complaining about anything atm since destruction on the phoenix throne just farm us for 15 minutes in t4 every game.

    Yep, and just the other day Order was in The Maw preparing for siege on IC.  Good thing we do nothing but "farm" you all day long. 

    Phoenix Throne is the closest balanced server I have seen between Order and Destruction.  The last time someone did a census on Phoenix Throne the balance was 1.2 : 1 thats pretty close.

    Yeah the balance is fine, but we can't win T4 scenarios at the moment. Yeah we win maybe 1 outta 4 or 5, but at this moment in time destruction has a hell of a lot more 40's than we do. This will all be sorted out soon. Then we will start to roll you guys in t4 scenarios...until then, you should be farming us for renown and complaining about op'd classes once we start to do the same to you guys =p

     

    Haha, fair enough I will be there to slaughter your RPs and Archmages.

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    You wouldn't understand
  • RictisRictis Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.

  • PangaeaPangaea Member Posts: 434

    At that level they can either spec for AOE knock back or EarthShatter.

    they can't have both.. so you are complaing that they have AOE knock backs and AOE Earthshatter.. but not at the same time.

     

    image

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888

    36 kills in 15 minutes does seem like an aweful lot.  Same for the xp, 16k xp doing the scenario, all I can say is wow.  I don't think I ever get more then 20+ kills max and my xp is way lower like 4-5k and a bonus from a win that I don't believe shows on the list.  

    This whole thing looks odd maybe they have some sort of exploit or something??  Deducting the crit it does seem like a regular 800 pt AE is pretty large.

     

     

    ---
    Ethion

  • Random_mageRandom_mage Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by Wakygreek


    Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.



     

    Hold the phone..

    a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??

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  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Member UncommonPosts: 398

    This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.

    I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....

    Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.

    I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....

    THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!

    Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.

    Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.

    The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.

    Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...

    First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.

    Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.

    Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.

  • PangaeaPangaea Member Posts: 434
    Originally posted by teddyboy420


    This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.
    I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....
    Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.
    I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....
    THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!
    Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.
    Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.
    The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.
    Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...
    First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.
    Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.
    Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.



     

    That is wrong.

    Ironbreaker has no counter class on destro and we have no counter class for Chosen.. Those would be

    Black guard and Knight of the Blazing Sun

    WE counter class is WH but Witch hunters have to distribute balistic skill in the mix as WE get more Spike damage frmo just strength and weapon skill

     

    image

  • pixeldogmeatpixeldogmeat Member Posts: 441

     You serious? Even at level 8 my shadow warrior was getting about 30+ kills per round, no biggie.

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  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Member UncommonPosts: 398

    Sorry if this ends up as a double-post, but I just wanted to express how much I am looking forward to KotBS and Blackguards to be implemented.

    Both classes look really cool, and I may have to roll up a KotBS as my new main. It'll be tough leaving my beloved Witch Hunter behind, but I am a support-class player from waaaay back and was hugely disapointed when there were no "true" support classes in WAR. I am talking about EQ Bards, and Enchanter type classes, those are my favorite types of classes, and KotBS seems to be a close fit to EQ Bards.

    I'll have to wait and see how things turn out, but if it ends up like they are portraying the class, I'm down to play a Knight of the Blazing Sun.

  • RictisRictis Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Originally posted by Wakygreek


    Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.



     

    Hold the phone..

    a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??



     

    No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage . if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

    In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

    (*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)

  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,846

    Actually when I got sick of running into certain things I made an Iron Breaker.  Honestly I almost never play tanks.. just not even where I want to be in a game.

    I will say I almost never had a problem being the top or close to top dps.  While everyone was complaining about BW's...

    Then again I had hit cancel by day 3 and didn't even log in the last 5 days or so of my "free 30 days".  I really wish the game had made me feel more like DAoC did early on.  Mostly so I wouldn't feel like I wasted money.. and would have something to amuse myself with for a couple years.

  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by Pangaea

    Originally posted by teddyboy420


    This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.
    I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....
    Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.
    I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....
    THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!
    Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.
    Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.
    The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.
    Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...
    First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.
    Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.
    Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.



     

    That is wrong.

    Ironbreaker has no counter class on destro and we have no counter class for Chosen.. Those would be

    Black guard and Knight of the Blazing Sun

    WE counter class is WH but Witch hunters have to distribute balistic skill in the mix as WE get more Spike damage frmo just strength and weapon skill

     

      Yeah, the Ironbreakers and Chosen's mirrors aren't in yet, this is true, but each side has a tank the other doesn't so it evens out. And don't even try to tell me it doesn't, each side has 4 very capable tanks.

    As far as WH being weaker then WE's b/c of the Ballistic Skill being needed to be peppered in, it makes almost no difference b/c most WH gear worth it's salt has both Str and Bal-Skill. I have BOTH Str and Bal-skill close to 500, and while my weapon skill is a lilttle lower as a result, I have no problem chewing up and spitting out WE's, casters, and other melee-dps classes.

  • Random_mageRandom_mage Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Originally posted by Wakygreek


    Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.



     

    Hold the phone..

    a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??



     

    No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage then a 1 person nuke crit. if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

    In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

    (*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)



     

    Guess you didn't see the screen shot with the BW's..

    And at 21.. a sorcerer isn't consitently critting for 1k.  Oh.. and did you know they are wearing a wet napkin for armor?  Oh?? Right..

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  • Random_mageRandom_mage Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by teddyboy420


    This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.
    I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....
    Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.
    I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....
    THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!
    Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.
    Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.
    The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.
    Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...
    First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.
    Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.
    Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.



     

    No.

    this post.

    NO NO NO.

    KOTBS=Chosen

    BG=IB

    KOTBS and BG have not been implemnted yet.   So. NO.  Every class doe snot have a mirror. Oh.. and we don't need to bring up the Sorc = BW.. because they dont' equal out.    Until you've played both.. you don't know. 

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  • skydragonrenskydragonren Member Posts: 667

    This entire thread is ridiculous.

     

    I play the Ironbreaker.

    Ironbreakers have faults as well. It is true I always out dps the bright wizard and it is typically true I hold the highest kill rate in most scenarios I play.

    The dps is not the leading factor to my kills however. It is the fact that I wear 3 times the armor of a BW and are always in the front lines. I am always in the face of the enemy and I play smart switching targets on the fly to hit any wounded destruction player I see close to death with my 2 bleed axe attacks which ALWAYS finish the job. If I am not playing cleanup then I am running down Zealots or Shamans. 2 Shotting annoying Sorcs that get in the way.

    *Side note to sorcs and magus - NEVER try and freeze/snare an Ironbreaker your just gonna piss them off and they will break it with juggernaut anyway and come beat your face in. Better to just let them slip by on their way to the healer since you are only #2 on their kill list and live a little longer. That or you could just keep trying to freeze them and gain their attention and eat some dirt. Up to you.

    Ok back to the topic at hand. I play Vengence line which is more of a 2hander STR based dps line. Going this route really dampens my armor and block because of loss of shield. Which means I die faster than the Stone line counterparts.

     

    Ironbreakers go like this, you can toss your shield and do a shit ton of damage fast and die a lot.

    OR

    Keep your shield and do minimal damage and block for order holding the line and playing protector.

    Either of these come at a cost. You can't have it all and you have to give up 1 or the other. DPS or Supeior Armor.... you have to choose.

     

     

  • RictisRictis Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Originally posted by Wakygreek


    Is it possible for a level 29 dwarf tank to crit you for 1200? Sure it could be. and the reason I say this is because I have had a level 21 sorc crit me for 1000 damage. in fact my level 15 Shadow warrior as crit for 800-900 before. It was easy, just used Acid arrow then used eagle eye(also had rank 2 morale which increases damage by 100% for 10 seconds on), my white damage was doing 400-600.  So im really not surprised that a tank can eventually dish out that much.  In fact alot of chosen running around with 2 handers do rediculous amounts of damage.



     

    Hold the phone..

    a DPS class is hitting as hard as a tank?? .. Do you not see the problem here??



     

    No I dont. because a dps class at 30 which is around the same level that tank is, is going to do more damage then a 1 person nuke crit. if a Sorc can crit me for 1k at 21 at 29 almost 10 levels higher that damage is going to be much higher isnt it? if my lvl 15 SW can crit for 900, at 30 I can prob crit 1700 or more. Besides the OP more then likely had an armor debuff on...90% of the time when you want to kill a tank you always want some sort of armor debuff to get in the extra damage.  Lets not forget that the OP has not mentioned yet if he was wearing a shield or a 2 hander.  Because certain abilities are granted for those wearing shields which increase armor and defense.  There are many variables here to look at.  You cant just show a screen shot of a tank doing 1200 and automatically assume its broken. I mean it could be but given all the classes ive played (including chosen and BO) the damage seems correct. especially if they are using a 2 hander. 

    In the end a patch is comming out to address the issue if indeed it is one. But I have to call Shennanigans untill you guys can give me the debuffs/buffs of all the players involved.  Im not saying it to be a jerk, but in all honesty to be sure if this is a bug, or just some good pvping. 

    (*) I just want to note that in tier 2 my SW does 30-40k damage with lvl 15 skills. in Tier 2 i have seen a sorc/BW do over 66k damage. You cannot possibly tell me that 4 BW (unless they suck completely) couldnt break 45k in tier 3.  Even on a bad night I cant even see that happening (unless they joined late)



     

    Guess you didn't see the screen shot with the BW's..

    And at 21.. a sorcerer isn't consitently critting for 1k.  Oh.. and did you know they are wearing a wet napkin for armor?  Oh?? Right..

    I saw the screen shot of the BW's, and im telling you that BW's generally do way more then that in your average Scenario. and a 21 sorcerer can crit constantly for 1k..its very easy...im not going to discuss this with you random because you tend to be condensending which is very annoying (I will however explain this once). If I hop on my BW and i build up his combustion..lets say using is pbaoe to 100% combustion.  I am going to have a 100% damage increase with a 50% chance to crit and a 50% chance to backlash.  If I was 21 and built up my combustion i would have a 50% chance to crit you for 1K and thats not including if I had modifiers to my stats like a hell of alot of INT to do even more damage.  My point is..a well speced good player with good gear that knows how to play their class, will hand you yours in a battle. I dont expect you to understand everything I am saying because aparantly your more interested in screen shots and not how that 1200 landed.

     

    If I take a screen shot of a Healer criting for 900 off a spell at 30 would you find that odd? Would you imeediately say its broken?  What if there is a way that healer could pull it off, if the situation was right? Dont be so fast to discredit everything you dont know based on a few pictures.

  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Originally posted by teddyboy420


    This post just goes to show how much perspective plays a part in a persons ideas on game balance.
    I see people complaining about Order having too many knockbacks, and all order is knock people into the lava, that Ironbreakers are hard to kill and hit hard....
    Guess what people??? Every single class that Order has, Destruction has the same class, w/ the same abilities. People seem to think that this is like DAoC where there are like 36 unique classes. Well it's not, it's WAR and there are only TEN unique classes.
    I've said this sooo many times, and I'm gonna say it again, and again until people get it....
    THERE IS NO CLASS IMBALANCE BETWEEN ORDER AND DESTRUCTION!!!
    Seriously, go and look at the ability lists for the classes that are mirrors of each other, like the Swordmaster and Black Orc, or Witch Elves and Witch Hunters....yeah, there are a couple differences, but they are MINOR. For the most part, the mirrors of each class share almost ALL abilities w/ a few small variances here and there. For example (and I am making this up), one sides version will have ability that does 200 Corporeal dmg and has a silence effect, it's mirror on the other side will have the same ability, except it does 200 Spiritual dmg and has a disarm effect. See where this is going? The classes are really NOT imbalanced at all. What it all comes down to is the luck of the draw concerning what classes are in a given scenario, the skill of the people playing said classes, and the overall cooperation of each side. That's it.
    Order does NOT have more knockbacks then Destruction, or vice-versa. Everything that one side has, the other does too. Period.
    The percieved imbalance is different on each server. On my server, Phoenix Throne, the popular concensus is that Destruction is overpowered. On the server Dark Crag, people seem to think that Order is overpowered. It all varies from server to server.
    Now, as far as tanks being very hard to take down...yes, they are. They're freakin tanks, what do you expect? That being said, tanks do not do as much dmg as melee-dps, or ranged-dps for that matter. They can get close to the dmg output of a dps class, but they usually have to give up  much survivability for dmg output like that. As for the Ironbreaker leading the kill count on that scenarios scoreboard, I can believe it....but everyone must take something into account here...
    First, kills are shared between group members, even if a member of a group did ZERO dmg, or ZERO healing during the kill, the still get credit for a kill b/c someone in their group contributed to a kill.
    Second, you can't equate kill count w/ dmg output. That scoreboard didn't show the dmg done.
    Third, it is entirely plausible for a tank to have a higher total dmg tally then a dps class, but survivability MUST be taken into account, especially in a scenario like Tor Anoc b/c of the rediculous amount of time it takes to actually get into the battle after dying. If a tank has someone competant healing them, and only has one or two deaths, they will rack up WAAAAY more dmg then a squishy caster who dies much easier.



     

    No.

    this post.

    NO NO NO.

    KOTBS=Chosen

    BG=IB

    KOTBS and BG have not been implemnted yet.   So. NO.  Every class doe snot have a mirror. Oh.. and we don't need to bring up the Sorc = BW.. because they dont' equal out.    Until you've played both.. you don't know. 

    As I said in response to another post, yes, the Chosen and Ironbreakers mirrors aren't in yet. But it really does not matter as each side has 4 VERY capable tanks, and each side has a tank the other doesn't. So, YES, YES, YES, it DOES even out. Is the Chosen an awesome tank? Yes. Is the Ironbreaker an awesome tank? Yes. So, they balance each other other w/ the lack of thier mirrors being in-game.

    And I was an Elder Tester, and have played both Sorc's and Bright Wizards. It used to be that the BW had a lot over the Sorc, but in the last weeks of beta they really brought the Sorc up to snuff. Go and look at each ones abilities, mastery trees, etc, they are almost identical except for the types of dmg they each do. I haven't played either past t2 since release, but on my main, about to move into t4, I have seen BWs and Sorcs each top 100k dmg, and more then double (in some cases triple) the total dmg done by the next closest class in scenarios. So yes, I DO know.

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