Home › Game Forums › Darkfall
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Darkfall's Beta NDA
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. This thread has lowered my respect for MMORPG.com staff by about ten notches, it is mmorpg.com's credibility that is at stake, not Darkfall's. Darkfall already lost their credibility in the gaming world [years ago] and can only gain credibility again by producing their game in some publicly available form.
After reading this thread it is hard for me not to view MMORPG.com staff as clowns. Why is this thread stickied? There is nothing here other than uninformed hearsay. NDA applies to people who aren't even party to the NDA? Yeah, try running that one past a lawyer, and good luck. I thought the Darkfall devs were just smoking ganja, but maybe they are smoking something harder like crack....
..... Skimming is not always a good thing.
Pretty darn sure you misunderstood my posts and probably didn't even read the whole thread since some of the stuff was covered.
Its kinda hilarious that they did not make any of their " vistors " of their " offices " sign an NDA but here we are less than 3 weeks away from when the Open Beta is supposed to FINISH and they have an NDA for testers. Doesnt make sense to me. They have to act like there is an NDA because if there wasnt and there was still no information coming out then everyone would see whats going on.
Its pretty clear that if there is a beta going on its just the devs doing the testing which is why there are no leaks out there.
Have I ever seen an MMO company handle an NDA like Aventurine is? In the sense of the NDA being a coverall "do not talk about the beta" thing, then.. yeah, most companies do that.
As for asking them why they don't do much PR.. I'm just a moderator with a big mouth. I am no more special than any other moderator here, and I ain't a reporter. Every company has its quirks, I guess.
Good to see your on the ball VPellen.
Sigh, its late and I read through the entire thread only to find out....
Darkfall's NDA agreement is vaporware!
Until I see a link or some other tangible proof that such a document exists, there is no credibility saying that one does, regardless whatever the DF CM says. (heck, I'll put forth he's a vapor person)
How do you "know" he's the DF CM. Maybe I'm the DF CM? Please tell me how you verify the credentials of such a person, because truthfully, I don't recall seeing him/her post on these forums under that moniker.
Get them to post here in this thread if they really exist, and get Stradden to back it and I'll start to believe it.
edit: God, how I hate the BS that we have to put up with because of this game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No I AM, you liar!
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware
A hoax is a deliberate attempt to dupe, deceive or trick an audience into believing, or accepting, that something is real, when in fact it is not; or that something is true, when in fact it is false. In an instance of a hoax, an object, or event, is not what it appears to be, or what it is claimed to be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Kyleran: "Darkfall's NDA agreement is vaporware!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope.....
Darkfall = Vaporware
NDA = Hoax
Have I ever seen an MMO company handle an NDA like Aventurine is? In the sense of the NDA being a coverall "do not talk about the beta" thing, then.. yeah, most companies do that.
As for asking them why they don't do much PR.. I'm just a moderator with a big mouth. I am no more special than any other moderator here, and I ain't a reporter. Every company has its quirks, I guess.
Actually, you are. Next to JelloB2000, you're my favorite.
Whether you consider that a compliment, or a reason to tighten your home security and buy a gun, is entirely up to you.
So with that being said, can you delete the threads that are created to demand evidence and proof of beta testing and reprimand those trying to encourage to break that violation? I am not going to mention any names in particular, but I do see qutie a few in the Darkfall threads frequently always spamming about how "there is no beta at all", "it is all a fake", and "if there is give us evidence and proof" etc. Will the following posts be deleted as well?
Well either way, thank you for the information VPellen. I just hope what you said here will shut some people up and hopefully they will think twice before whining about proof or evidence of Darkfall's beta. It really gets annoying to hear them complain over and over again.
Official forum is even wurs with topic's spamming about beta
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. This thread has lowered my respect for MMORPG.com staff by about ten notches, it is mmorpg.com's credibility that is at stake, not Darkfall's. Darkfall already lost their credibility in the gaming world [years ago] and can only gain credibility again by producing their game in some publicly available form.
After reading this thread it is hard for me not to view MMORPG.com staff as clowns. Why is this thread stickied? There is nothing here other than uninformed hearsay. NDA applies to people who aren't even party to the NDA? Yeah, try running that one past a lawyer, and good luck. I thought the Darkfall devs were just smoking ganja, but maybe they are smoking something harder like crack....
..... Skimming is not always a good thing.
Pretty darn sure you misunderstood my posts and probably didn't even read the whole thread since some of the stuff was covered.
I find your posts a bit incoherent, so it's possible I misread what you wrote.
You seemed to imply that mmorpg.com need to worry about their credibility with the darkfall developers. What I said was that the credibility that really matters is the credibility mmorpg.com has with its USERS, i.e. its CUSTOMERS or AUDIENCE, i.e. GAMERS. Kow towing to the Darkfall developers does not raise mmorpg.com's credibility with gamers, it lowers it. It makes the people at mmorpg.com look like clowns. It makes their site seem totally amateur.
Personally, this thread is the final straw for me, this site has no credibility as a gaming information source as far as I am concerned. I would never reccomend one of my friends to go here to get info about games.
The one and only.
No they aren't, are you nuts? All an NDA is is a contract between the user and the game developer. The user agrees not to talk about the game and in return the game developer lets the user play the game. If the user breaches their NDA the worst thing that can happen is the game developer sues the user for money damages -- generally money damages would be the amount of money the game company has lost due to the information disclosed by the user [zero in most cases] and/or the value of playing the game which is what the game company gave to the user in exchange for them agreeing to the NDA. So in other words, the money damages are likely to be QUITE small.
I'm not a lawyer, but that's the basics of how contract law works in every developed nation in the world.
The one and only.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. This thread has lowered my respect for MMORPG.com staff by about ten notches, it is mmorpg.com's credibility that is at stake, not Darkfall's. Darkfall already lost their credibility in the gaming world [years ago] and can only gain credibility again by producing their game in some publicly available form.
After reading this thread it is hard for me not to view MMORPG.com staff as clowns. Why is this thread stickied? There is nothing here other than uninformed hearsay. NDA applies to people who aren't even party to the NDA? Yeah, try running that one past a lawyer, and good luck. I thought the Darkfall devs were just smoking ganja, but maybe they are smoking something harder like crack....
..... Skimming is not always a good thing.
Pretty darn sure you misunderstood my posts and probably didn't even read the whole thread since some of the stuff was covered.
I find your posts a bit incoherent, so it's possible I misread what you wrote.
You seemed to imply that mmorpg.com need to worry about their credibility with the darkfall developers. What I said was that the credibility that really matters is the credibility mmorpg.com has with its USERS, i.e. its CUSTOMERS or AUDIENCE, i.e. GAMERS. Kow towing to the Darkfall developers does not raise mmorpg.com's credibility with gamers, it lowers it. It makes the people at mmorpg.com look like clowns. It makes their site seem totally amateur.
Personally, this thread is the final straw for me, this site has no credibility as a gaming information source as far as I am concerned. I would never reccomend one of my friends to go here to get info about games.
At first I laughed that anyone would think that coverage of Darkfall could damage MMORPG.COMs reputation. But then I started thinking about it. While a news paper covers real news, tabloids type papers cover their own brand of "news", and arent generally respected for it.
So yeah maybe even bothering with Aventurine and Darkfall is pretty much the equivalent of a real newspaper taking time away from reporting real news to cover junk like celebrity gossip.
Food for thought?
Thanks i think this would be appreciated by most, especially the DF supporters. In either case I'll take your word.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. This thread has lowered my respect for MMORPG.com staff by about ten notches, it is mmorpg.com's credibility that is at stake, not Darkfall's. Darkfall already lost their credibility in the gaming world [years ago] and can only gain credibility again by producing their game in some publicly available form.
After reading this thread it is hard for me not to view MMORPG.com staff as clowns. Why is this thread stickied? There is nothing here other than uninformed hearsay. NDA applies to people who aren't even party to the NDA? Yeah, try running that one past a lawyer, and good luck. I thought the Darkfall devs were just smoking ganja, but maybe they are smoking something harder like crack....
..... Skimming is not always a good thing.
Pretty darn sure you misunderstood my posts and probably didn't even read the whole thread since some of the stuff was covered.
I find your posts a bit incoherent, so it's possible I misread what you wrote.
You seemed to imply that mmorpg.com need to worry about their credibility with the darkfall developers. What I said was that the credibility that really matters is the credibility mmorpg.com has with its USERS, i.e. its CUSTOMERS or AUDIENCE, i.e. GAMERS. Kow towing to the Darkfall developers does not raise mmorpg.com's credibility with gamers, it lowers it. It makes the people at mmorpg.com look like clowns. It makes their site seem totally amateur.
Personally, this thread is the final straw for me, this site has no credibility as a gaming information source as far as I am concerned. I would never reccomend one of my friends to go here to get info about games.
LoL.... That's awsome.
1. I did not mean they they are worried about their credibility with Darkfall Dev's specificly, But developers in general. I am not going to break it down any simplier as to why I say this. You are smart enough to turn your computer on, come to this site and post. Are you going to tell me that you really can't figure out why that might be?
2. You are not a customer. You have not payed this site a dime, Unless you are running an add on this site.
3. I am not a mod and I am not speaking for the site. However they have always tryed to respect the wishes of any game developer on matters of this sort. It's good business. Trust brings trust. Think about it if you can't figure out what I might mean. If they can't trust a CM then who can they trust. Assuming the person in question really is the CM.
4. Would you believe anyone if they told you that they were in beta? So why the big fuss, it is not like they would be able to do much more than that (from experiance).
i am sorry but reading your post made me laugh a bit. Hopefully you didn't write the game code, because i know there is going to be some problems
Damn I'm more dyslexic than I thought. Sorry was typing fast at work. FYI I just bug tested the code for the games I worked on. I didn't write it so your games are safe
Update: Still no word on the NDA yet. I'm wondering what I'm going to do if I don't get a response from the CM.
Let me word that in a different way then.
Please enquire about or attempt to arrange the possibility of any representative(s) from MMORPG having access to public beta for preview and promotional purposes.
Also if the NDA is not produced for your personal perusal after a reasonable amount of time I think you should edit your OP and the sticky title, but like I said don’t be surprised if you don’t get a prompt reply.
Give him a chance! It's not easy to cut'n'paste from other companys' legal documents when English isn't your first language.
Give him a chance! It's not easy to cut'n'paste from other companys' legal documents when English isn't your first language.
Huh? The game is in English is it not? So it shouldn't be a problem of getting a English NDA?
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. This thread has lowered my respect for MMORPG.com staff by about ten notches, it is mmorpg.com's credibility that is at stake, not Darkfall's. Darkfall already lost their credibility in the gaming world [years ago] and can only gain credibility again by producing their game in some publicly available form.
After reading this thread it is hard for me not to view MMORPG.com staff as clowns. Why is this thread stickied? There is nothing here other than uninformed hearsay. NDA applies to people who aren't even party to the NDA? Yeah, try running that one past a lawyer, and good luck. I thought the Darkfall devs were just smoking ganja, but maybe they are smoking something harder like crack....
..... Skimming is not always a good thing.
Pretty darn sure you misunderstood my posts and probably didn't even read the whole thread since some of the stuff was covered.
I find your posts a bit incoherent, so it's possible I misread what you wrote.
You seemed to imply that mmorpg.com need to worry about their credibility with the darkfall developers. What I said was that the credibility that really matters is the credibility mmorpg.com has with its USERS, i.e. its CUSTOMERS or AUDIENCE, i.e. GAMERS. Kow towing to the Darkfall developers does not raise mmorpg.com's credibility with gamers, it lowers it. It makes the people at mmorpg.com look like clowns. It makes their site seem totally amateur.
Personally, this thread is the final straw for me, this site has no credibility as a gaming information source as far as I am concerned. I would never reccomend one of my friends to go here to get info about games.
LoL.... That's awsome.
1. I did not mean they they are worried about their credibility with Darkfall Dev's specificly, But developers in general. I am not going to break it down any simplier as to why I say this. You are smart enough to turn your computer on, come to this site and post. Are you going to tell me that you really can't figure out why that might be?
2. You are not a customer. You have not payed this site a dime, Unless you are running an add on this site.
3. I am not a mod and I am not speaking for the site. However they have always tryed to respect the wishes of any game developer on matters of this sort. It's good business. Trust brings trust. Think about it if you can't figure out what I might mean. If they can't trust a CM then who can they trust. Assuming the person in question really is the CM.
4. Would you believe anyone if they told you that they were in beta? So why the big fuss, it is not like they would be able to do much more than that (from experiance).
I don't think it is possible for you to break it down "any simplier", because I don't think your ideas make any sense when broken down. You seem to think mmorpg.com and game developers are having some kind of circle jerk here and you have been lucky enough to stumble through the door and get a peep inside. That's not the way it is, mmorpg.com is a gaming community/journalism site whose business is dependent on keeping a steady user base happy and a steady flow of web traffic through their site. Being seen as shills who bend over backwards to please game developers does not help their image, it hurts it. It hurts their reputation, and their business depends entirely on their reputation among gamers.
As far as game developers are concerned, the only thing that really matters vis a vis mmorpg.com is how much web traffic they get and what their credibility is AMONG GAMERS, because game developers use sites like this to promote their products -- it's business, they want to sell games, this is not some high school clique sort of thing about who likes who and who's friends with you. Maybe you're still in school and don't know much about business or something, I dunno.
Peace.
The one and only.
Give him a chance! It's not easy to cut'n'paste from other companys' legal documents when English isn't your first language.
Huh? The game is in English is it not? So it shouldn't be a problem of getting a English NDA?
Sure the game is "in English", quite possibly some of their writers are even native speakers (not sure, though the devs are mostly Greeks and Norwegians as I understand it). But there's a pretty big difference between knowing enough English to write some second-rate MMO quest prose or mod forums, and being able to draft a proper legal document in a language that isn't necessarily your first.
I don't think it is possible for you to break it down "any simplier", because I don't think your ideas make any sense when broken down. You seem to think mmorpg.com and game developers are having some kind of circle jerk here and you have been lucky enough to stumble through the door and get a peep inside. That's not the way it is, mmorpg.com is a gaming community/journalism site whose business is dependent on keeping a steady user base happy and a steady flow of web traffic through their site. Being seen as shills who bend over backwards to please game developers does not help their image, it hurts it. It hurts their reputation, and their business depends entirely on their reputation among gamers.
Call it what you like, circle jerk or whatever. You see the cup half empty I see it half full. It was a different perspective. What pays the bills and draws traffic? There is alot of reasons for this from the interviews to contests to live dev chats and many more.
As I already said in matters like this they have always respected the wishes of the developer. Supposedly this came from a CM. (So there is some question as to whether this guyis the cm or isn't. Everyone was giving him a hard time for nothing tbh. As I asked, "Would you believe anyone who said they were in open beta?". Then why bring it up? They would not be allowed to prove it to you in a satisfactory manner on this site.
As far as game developers are concerned, the only thing that really matters vis a vis mmorpg.com is how much web traffic they get and what their credibility is AMONG GAMERS, because game developers use sites like this to promote their products -- it's business, they want to sell games, this is not some high school clique sort of thing about who likes who and who's friends with you. Maybe you're still in school and don't know much about business or something, I dunno.
What brings traffic? You see the cup half empty I see it half full. It is just a perspective. I wrote and I quote, "I think people are looking at this the wrong way."
Peace.
Banning People or even warning people for an violating an NDA that you have never read is asshattery at its finest in my opinion.
It is like a cop arresting someone for spitting on their lawn because he heard from some guy working as a secretary at the courthouse that that act is now illegal.
If they wont provide you with a copy of the NDA then you have no NDA to make sure is not being violated.
Next we might hear... "CM said negative comments are a breach of our USER POLICY. Anyone who has made a negative comment breaches said contract and is unable to join Darkfall".
Give him a chance! It's not easy to cut'n'paste from other companys' legal documents when English isn't your first language.
Huh? The game is in English is it not? So it shouldn't be a problem of getting a English NDA?
Sure the game is "in English", quite possibly some of their writers are even native speakers (not sure, though the devs are mostly Greeks and Norwegians as I understand it). But there's a pretty big difference between knowing enough English to write some second-rate MMO quest prose or mod forums, and being able to draft a proper legal document in a language that isn't necessarily your first.
I think the NDA must already be in english but it's just an assumption, of course. Unless they will only have greek beta testers, I would think they already translated it.
Darkfall does not have a paid CM. They have an unpaid volunteer running their website, and forums.
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda