To counter the threads of some that think Wow is too easy: Since WotLK PvP gear is now rated: did you know it is the most difficult MMORPG in this field? A PvP rating of 2200 means LESS than 1% of the players will ....ever see this gear on their avatars? These new ratings assure the "elite" players they will feel elite. Carebear? When only 1% or less of the players will ever get this epic gear?
And this gear will ensure that they stay on top. How exactly is that "hard"? Its not hard when your gear makes you overpowered.
Sounds like a game I want to play. 1% of the population gets to see the gear while the other guys get to get pwned by the gear. Awesome! Sign me up!
Read my posts.
The difference between the highest PvP gear set and the lowest - no rating - set is to be ... 4%.
So that answers your question isn't it.
Just enough to keep the motivation high but not nearly big enough to interfere with skill.
Not judging that its harder, because it could very well be. But you also forgot one thing. Some people will get that gear then stop playing to achieve it. Happened when they had rankings and it will happen with this rating system. Some of those people wont be able to hold onto the gear and others will bypass until eventually whoever wants the gear has gotten it. And some of those won't even care if they lose the gear. The accomplishment lies in just getting it. For some thats enough for them. So your 1% now could very well end up being 99% in a year. Then what? A new system? I'm not trying to badger you or anything, it just seems like all you play is WoW. Did you ever try playing DaoC and trying to get that crappy top end gear from ToA? Or how about the raid groups put together in EQ where only one person walked out with an item after 4+ hrs of raiding. Or how about the gear faction grind in Vangaurd which seemed impossible to even get without dedication when it first came about.
You definitely should choose your words more wisely. And better yet, you should quit making threads to counter other threads. You only make yourself look like a fool because you want to continue a grudge over the net. Its pretty plain to see WoW is an easy game. If it wasn't, you honestly think 11 million + people would play it? Go read the boards, all your proof is there. My step sister plays WoW and has plenty of high level characters. Shes 11 years old. And she hates playing challenging games. So what now? I seriously don't even know why I contributed to this post, because threads about gear are so kiddish. GL with whatever, and just enjoy the game. Quit worrying about what other threads say. If they or I think it's easy. It's ok. We are not the government, we cant punish you. It's an opinon, and its ours. Take it with a grain of salt and just move on.
Not judging that its harder, because it could very well be. But you also forgot one thing. Some people will get that gear then stop playing to achieve it. Happened when they had rankings and it will happen with this rating system. Some of those people wont be able to hold onto the gear and others will bypass until eventually whoever wants the gear has gotten it. And some of those won't even care if they lose the gear. The accomplishment lies in just getting it. For some thats enough for them. So your 1% now could very well end up being 99% in a year. Then what? A new system? I'm not trying to badger you or anything, it just seems like all you play is WoW. Did you ever try playing DaoC and trying to get that crappy top end gear from ToA? Or how about the raid groups put together in EQ where only one person walked out with an item after 4+ hrs of raiding. Or how about the gear faction grind in Vangaurd which seemed impossible to even get without dedication when it first came about. You definitely should choose your words more wisely. And better yet, you should quit making threads to counter other threads. You only make yourself look like a fool because you want to continue a grudge over the net. Its pretty plain to see WoW is an easy game. If it wasn't, you honestly think 11 million + people would play it? Go read the boards, all your proof is there. My step sister plays WoW and has plenty of high level characters. Shes 11 years old. And she hates playing challenging games. So what now? I seriously don't even know why I contributed to this post, because threads about gear are so kiddish. GL with whatever, and just enjoy the game. Quit worrying about what other threads say. If they or I think it's easy. It's ok. We are not the government, we cant punish you. It's an opinon, and its ours. Take it with a grain of salt and just move on.
Isn't it great that a company catering for the general public - read youngsters and grandmothers - also can include a very hardcore rating system to obtain very rare epic gear that only 1% of the players (or even less) can and will have?
It shows one thing to me: Blizzard has indeed balls if they think to get away with it.
So no carebear here. And that's all I wanted to show.
To counter the threads of some that think Wow is too easy: Since WotLK PvP gear is now rated: did you know it is the most difficult MMORPG in this field? A PvP rating of 2200 means LESS than 1% of the players will ....ever see this gear on their avatars? These new ratings assure the "elite" players they will feel elite. Carebear? When only 1% or less of the players will ever get this epic gear?
You're right - for arena, that is. And can we please ban the word "Carebear"?
Isn't it great that a company catering for the general public - read youngsters and grandmothers - also can include a very hardcore rating system to obtain very rare epic gear that only 1% of the players (or even less) can and will have?
It shows one thing to me: Blizzard has indeed balls if they think to get away with it. So no carebear here. And that's all I wanted to show.
Well actually the whole 1% thing isnt something to go by. This is only for arena's and not everyone likes or plays them. Many people prefer Bg's or open world pvp , and a huge number of wow players are mainly into pve so that cuts down the % a lot , if the game was centered around arena's and the "whole " population of players did arena's then im sure that % would change a lot, but with the population so spread out in many different play types its hard to get an acurate number, so only being available to 1% of the player base is a lot more about player preferance than anything and only deals with arena players.
Isn't it great that a company catering for the general public - read youngsters and grandmothers - also can include a very hardcore rating system to obtain very rare epic gear that only 1% of the players (or even less) can and will have?
It shows one thing to me: Blizzard has indeed balls if they think to get away with it. So no carebear here. And that's all I wanted to show.
Well actually the whole 1% thing isnt something to go by. This is only for arena's and not everyone likes or plays them. Many people prefer Bg's or open world pvp , and a huge number of wow players are mainly into pve so that cuts down the % a lot , if the game was centered around arena's and the "whole " population of players did arena's then im sure that % would change a lot, but with the population so spread out in many different play types its hard to get an acurate number, so only being available to 1% of the player base is a lot more about player preferance than anything and only deals with arena players.
Wrong again Boreil.
This is the fourth or fifth time I have to explain how Wow works for PvP. I reckon you don't even play the game. But apparently you try to jump in the discussions.
To get the gear you need to play BOTH in Arena AND in the BG's and the open world PvP. Otherwise you will not get "complete" sets. Get it.?
I am not going into detail but only some pieces come from Arena the rest comes from honor you get from open world PvP and BG's, but they STILL need ratings on the two highest PvP gear sets.
These total gear sets are obtained througout the COMPLETE PVP content. Understand it now ??? And YES !!!! ....Even in the Raids (PVE !!!!!) you can opt to get PVP gear with the badge systems.
So please stop posting before again using non arguments.
To counter the threads of some that think Wow is too easy: Since WotLK PvP gear is now rated: did you know it is the most difficult MMORPG in this field? A PvP rating of 2200 means LESS than 1% of the players will ....ever see this gear on their avatars? These new ratings assure the "elite" players they will feel elite. Carebear? When only 1% or less of the players will ever get this epic gear?
ok, original post read, check.
The percentage is backed by what fact(s?) and being pulled from where?
I know what a 2200 rating is, but people will play the system and get the items.
I disagree that it's the most difficult gear to get.
WAR's top tier gear is going to take much more effort and time to aquire.
Let me explain this system since I doubt you play many other games.
WAR's top tier gear is only available to people in the King fight. The group needed to go after him is 24 people.
To lock the city in order just to have the shot at him requires about 300 people working together (without opposition mind you, and before they made it much more difficult to do apparently) to lock the appropriate areas to make it even available.
Note there are 5 pieces per set. Odds are you won't get one in just one run. (might see one or two drop, but 24 people rolling...)
Then you have to wait for it to reset and start locking things again.
I bet you that people will have the full arena set in WOW long before anyone can boast having a full set of top tier gear in WAR. And mind you, WAR has almost 2 month's head start. (First lock started to happen about a month ago)
Have a good day. I can agree WOW has some of the hardest gear to get, but I do not think it's top dog.
I was commenting only on the 1% out of 12 mill people able to get these items as not all players do these things needed to get there, so its not an true description of the actual number of players it would be available to if everyone did . A closer to true number would be taking into account only the players who actually TRY and get all of these items and the % who do make it .
Yes your correct i quit wow back when they put in BG's , though my wife still plays it a bit.
Yawn. WoW is really two or three different games/communities, maybe more.
1. People who are obsessed with gear and "pwning" others in PvP, in my opinion the most boring and obnoxious part of the game. The whole idea that it's a grind, and that expansions make past efforts pointless (the whole THING is pointless, silly, that's why it's a GAME) derives from this focus.
2. People who basically solo PvE, and group/guild/duo/trio as the mood strikes, and as the difficulty or crowdedness of a quest/area demands it. The most relaxed and engaging part of the game in my experience.
3. People for whom it is an important part of their social life, whose participation is largely expressed through guilds. I see the appeal, but it can get really tiresome when the expectations begin to resemble a job.
Of course there are smaller niches, such as the heavy duty crafters/sellers; the few who genuinely and creatively roleplay; the solo griefers (bless their hearts).
I fall into the second category, with a certain degree of mental roleplay (I find that going back to Elwynn is oddly nostalgic...(awww, remember when that first cave was scary?)
My overall point is that Blizzard has been brilliant at offering an experience that can be grabbed onto from a wide variety of angles. The people who I hear ragging on it generally seem like they wouldn't be much fun to play with anyway, because it's all about them - being first/strongest/shiniest. The word carebear always carries with it a connotation of the schoolyard bully, it sounds like fa%^ot coming out of the mouth of the biggest kid in 3rd grade. I won't say that all who focus on PvP and gear and firsts are compensating for personal insecurities, but there's an aura/smell of that in so much of their commentary.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
Yeah but arena gear is just that now. Arena gear. I don't know the specifics, but now the stats don't nearly benefit you outside of arenas like they used to.
It depends which class you are. Dps is Dps.
To an extent... Back when I was playing my old account (about 10 months ago) I had a 70 rogue. I didn't have a lot of time to dedicate to raiding and PvP, the most I could spare was a few hours a week for Kara and the occasional Gruul's if I had a free Saturday. I was however quite serious about DPS: I was optimally specced to do raid DPS (went from halfway down damagemeters to first or second every time), had read up all the roguecraft theory, and was into the spreadsheets to compare gear. I found that Kara drops were better for straight-up DPS then most BG pieces and a good number of arena pieces as well, as the raid drops tended to have more attack power and PvP pieces leaned toward stam and agi (stam is basically useless for raid DPS if you control your aggro, and the AP gains outweighed the increased AP from the agility) With that said, I didn't run Kara enough to get all the pieces (or badge pieces to fill the gaps) and was in mix n match Kara drops, badge gear, battleground epics, and a Blinkstrike I bought at the AH (couldn't afford weapon enchants either) and still managed to out-DPS another full-T4 rogue in Gruul's.
My point is, there are differences but they are small enough that you will notice a much bigger gain in simply playing your class optimally.
To counter the threads of some that think Wow is too easy: Since WotLK PvP gear is now rated: did you know it is the most difficult MMORPG in this field? A PvP rating of 2200 means LESS than 1% of the players will ....ever see this gear on their avatars? These new ratings assure the "elite" players they will feel elite. Carebear? When only 1% or less of the players will ever get this epic gear?
EverQuest, Old school.... you obviously never played it.
Lol i remember me and my friend would take turns camping Jboots back in 99. I think it took us about 18 hours of non-stop campping to get 6 pairs for the group. I know of other ppl who campped for days and never got them.
To counter the threads of some that think Wow is too easy: Since WotLK PvP gear is now rated: did you know it is the most difficult MMORPG in this field? A PvP rating of 2200 means LESS than 1% of the players will ....ever see this gear on their avatars? These new ratings assure the "elite" players they will feel elite. Carebear? When only 1% or less of the players will ever get this epic gear?
You seem to not have any semblance of a clue what carebear means.
Also, nothing in WoW can be considered difficult, just time consuming. And hey, that was the one thing WoW had going for it, it was casual friendly, thats how it got its subs, but FU to them, just like they did a big FU who joined for the Warcraft lore.
And lastly, my god no, EQ was 100X harder gear wise than this will ever be, as was the DAoC ToA expansion.
To counter the threads of some that think Wow is too easy: Since WotLK PvP gear is now rated: did you know it is the most difficult MMORPG in this field? A PvP rating of 2200 means LESS than 1% of the players will ....ever see this gear on their avatars? These new ratings assure the "elite" players they will feel elite. Carebear? When only 1% or less of the players will ever get this epic gear?
You seem to not have any semblance of a clue what carebear means.
Also, nothing in WoW can be considered difficult, just time consuming. And hey, that was the one thing WoW had going for it, it was casual friendly, thats how it got its subs, but FU to them, just like they did a big FU who joined for the Warcraft lore.
And lastly, my god no, EQ was 100X harder gear wise than this will ever be, as was the DAoC ToA expansion.
LOL
Now I have proof all those Wow haters ARE blind? They can't even READ.
PVP Gear has a personal RATING system based on a ladder.
Get it? Less than 1% of the people or far less will have access to the HIGHEST PvP gear sets. You may play TEN THOUSAND YEARS and CAMP for a million others, you won't have the present HIGHEST gear sets in the game ever if you are NOT good enough.
That means you will need to do a combined effort in the worldPvP/Bg's/Arena's and ONLY the best of the best will ever get the present highest gear in the game for that moment.
In this respect the game is indeed BY FAR the most difficult MMORPG ever - gear wise to assemble. No use of playing it for 24/24 hours. Not good enough is simply NOT good enough.
Some servers will not even see the highest gear, because the calculations and personal rating systems ......are made per server cluster BATTLEGROUPS of 18 or more realms (servers).
So it beats the hell out of the botters and no lifers on EQ1 and everything beyon in MMORPG land
Hate makes you blind apparently
But indeed Wow (by its sheer system) can calculate just how good you are in PvP and distribute gear accordingly.
Everquest was only "harder" to get gear in, because of the artificial bottlenecks and time sinks put into the game. There was nothing skill based that prevented most people from getting most items.
Just because Nagafen only spawned every several days didn't mean it was skill based challenge to kill him. There was just a limited resource that people could get. Once the artificial time barriers (spawn timers) were removed everyone and their grandmother had epic quest weapons.
People need to stop confusing time sinks as difficulty. What the original poster is saying about how arena pvp weapons is true. It will be earned through player skill compared against other players skill as far as I can tell. I don't agree with all of his points and I'm sure Blizzard will find a way to tone it down in some fashion so it doesn't turn into yet another high warlord grind. Still it is more challenging than most things in MMOs.
Everquest was only "harder" to get gear in, because of the artificial bottlenecks and time sinks put into the game. There was nothing skill based that prevented most people from getting most items.
Just because Nagafen only spawned every several days didn't mean it was skill based challenge to kill him. There was just a limited resource that people could get. Once the artificial time barriers (spawn timers) were removed everyone and their grandmother had epic quest weapons.
People need to stop confusing time sinks as difficulty. What the original poster is saying about how arena pvp weapons is true. It will be earned through player skill compared against other players skill as far as I can tell. I don't agree with all of his points and I'm sure Blizzard will find a way to tone it down in some fashion so it doesn't turn into yet another high warlord grind. Still it is more challenging than most things in MMOs.
Nothing skill based? are you serious?. Complete heal cycling, with no pansy localized mods? Placement AOEs and an insane team effort, with most people on dial up, no voice either. You are going to say it took no skill? Craziest thing I ever heard.
EQ did have sinks, it also took a lot of skill and determination when it came to raiding. BOTH of these combined, made it difficult, but very damn rewarding.
Everquest was only "harder" to get gear in, because of the artificial bottlenecks and time sinks put into the game. There was nothing skill based that prevented most people from getting most items.
Just because Nagafen only spawned every several days didn't mean it was skill based challenge to kill him. There was just a limited resource that people could get. Once the artificial time barriers (spawn timers) were removed everyone and their grandmother had epic quest weapons.
People need to stop confusing time sinks as difficulty. What the original poster is saying about how arena pvp weapons is true. It will be earned through player skill compared against other players skill as far as I can tell. I don't agree with all of his points and I'm sure Blizzard will find a way to tone it down in some fashion so it doesn't turn into yet another high warlord grind. Still it is more challenging than most things in MMOs.
I would say that bottlenecking was more so in PoP, that expansion really weeded out the high end guilds from every other guild. Getting 72 ppl to act as one was not a easy task. TRC was not easy and did take skill from the whole raid with all that tank mezing going on with the mobs that could not be mezed by a chanter. All it took was one person messin up that could start a chain reaction of one mob getting free... and once that happens its pertty much over with. Nor was Xeg..even Ralloz could one shot your tank.
Originally posted by Chiram Nothing skill based? are you serious?. Complete heal cycling, with no pansy localized mods? Placement AOEs and an insane team effort, with most people on dial up, no voice either. You are going to say it took no skill? Craziest thing I ever heard.
EQ did have sinks, it also took a lot of skill and determination when it came to raiding. BOTH of these combined, made it difficult, but very damn rewarding.
Complete heal was one of the most over powered skills ever in a MMO. Clerics casting complete heal in a timed rotation took almost any challenge out of an encounter.
Almost every single encounter in the first few expansions consisted of the following strategy.
Tank: position mob so it faces away from the raid. Preferably blair witch style in a corner. Clerics 1-4 each take turns casting complete heal evey 3-5 seconds [depending on the fight]. Shaman/Enchanter magic debuff and slow [prefer shaman slow]. Maybe a defensive warrior rotation if needed. Everyone else pile on damage and heal raid as best possible.
Sure plenty of aspects about EQ were hard and required skill, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it wasn't some skill based game where people were denied content and only the top people COULD complete the content. EQ was more restrictive due to very limited number of boss spawns, high gear requirements to advance and amount of time investment needed to do high end content. Having 30-70 warm bodies online [the could mobilize fast] was more important to advancing in the games content than have 50 skillful people online at 7pm every night.
While I am not in agreement with everything the original poster is claiming, he is right that the arena rating system is based on a players skill [cheating aside]. Simply pouring time into arenas won't win the best gear. There is no boss encounter strategy to read that will result in winning. I am far from a fan of WoWs arena system, but I'm sure for people who are into that kind of thing they enjoy it very much and this is something people will compete over.
I do agree that arena gear is difficult to get assuming you dont cheat or buy your way there which is possible.
Blizzard did kind of a switch and now PVE is the welfare epics and I admit I did not see that coming at all. I know I could not pull a 2250 rating regardless of how much I practiced. Yes I know certain classes are easier than others from month to month but to get that rating does take skill.
To me its not fun even though I am not the best but because there are teams that you just cant beat because of the system. I know some great players and they agree that yes you do need a certain spec and certain class to rise to the top which takes some of the skill out but for those that have that they still have to push the buttons and work together.
Hats off to those upper arena guys.
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lol..WoW hard? What are you smoking? WoW is easymode deluxe. Obviously you never played some of the classic mmo's out there. Granted arena is quite competitive it's not hard. Get the right class and spec and 75% of the work is done, rest is down to patience, knowledge of your class and a little luck now and then. It's the same with PvP all over the place really. On the other hand, WoW's PvE is laughable easy and when you learn the scripted encounters its easymode to raid epics.
Anyway, this thread is a flamebait and should be reported and closed. The OP should be tempbanned aswell.
lol..WoW hard? What are you smoking? WoW is easymode deluxe. Obviously you never played some of the classic mmo's out there. Granted arena is quite competitive it's not hard. Get the right class and spec and 75% of the work is done, rest is down to patience, knowledge of your class and a little luck now and then. It's the same with PvP all over the place really. On the other hand, WoW's PvE is laughable easy and when you learn the scripted encounters its easymode to raid epics. Anyway, this thread is a flamebait and should be reported and closed. The OP should be tempbanned aswell. ...and done.
Although I appreciate your very veg and empty reply ,as I am at work and will read it anyway due to boredom but could you please suggest a game that requires more? I have played some of them and I cant think of any.
EVE- best ship/ most isk wins the fight no real incentive other than to pod kill someone for fun and take what loot they had but no real way to advance since there is no rank system other than bountys if ya count that. If you killed 100 players in a row with out losing would ya get anything for it?
WAR- hang out around people that give renoun when you kill em then eventually you will max out with renoun.
AOC- sweet PVP XP only took 6 months to match the box and you still cant level but refer to WAR on how to increase it.
LOTRO- I will say this probably takes the longest I have ever seen to max out but its just a grind when you break it down.
Any other games I missed and no full loot free for all pvp is really not that hard as you can farm noobs but no real reason or proof that you are consistantly good.
Please dont talk about Darkfall as it is not released yet.
WOW- take your best players against other of the best players and win. If you lose you lose rating if you win you gain a rating. Win enough times without losing and you max out.
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Yes, I got one, Anarchy Online Classic. Granted they didn't have this epeen title alot of the idiots I see who play WoW stroke with a passion, the grind and difficulty to get to endgame, gear up and find the proper implantset(spec builds really) was insane and changed quite often. The top build/class combination one day could be bottom the next day.
They lessened it quite a bit with Shadowlands (which took away from the cyberpunk atmosphere to create some shitty high-fantasy setting and made everyone ridicously rich due to ingots, which Funcom, in their infinte stupidity removed from the game a few years later, screwing the already screwed up economy even more), even more with Alien Invasion and Lost Eden is just a copycat from WoW's arenas and battlegrounds so lets just skip that one.
I laugh at what people call twinks in WoW too. BG twinks just require gold, nothing else. So you can run around one-shot people and you're impossible to kill for the regular player. Call that skill? I sure don't.
I don't hate WoW like alot of people around here do for some reason, but to read the fanboys spewing nonsense is downright ridiculous, allthough a little entertaining if only to laugh a little at their idiocity.
Also note that I said classis mmo's. Since when did Lotro/AoC and War become classic mmo's?
Edit:People also say that the grind in WoW is shit, calling a 6 month grind insane. I spent bloody years getting my shitty engineer in AO to endgame and that was just the leveling. I never got to the top in the towerbattles that used to rage on in AO as they had some real cuttroath players at the top. The forumdrama and hate that sometimes spawned in the forums where quite the sight at the time. Todays mmoplayer is, to be blunt, a spoiled brat expecting to be handheld and guided towards whatever shiny carrot the devs dangle at the end but that's what you get when you open up the genre to the mainstream.
Originally posted by jblah Although I appreciate your very veg and empty reply ,as I am at work and will read it anyway due to boredom but could you please suggest a game that requires more? I have played some of them and I cant think of any. EVE- best ship/ most isk wins the fight no real incentive other than to pod kill someone for fun and take what loot they had but no real way to advance since there is no rank system other than bountys if ya count that. If you killed 100 players in a row with out losing would ya get anything for it? WAR- hang out around people that give renoun when you kill em then eventually you will max out with renoun. AOC- sweet PVP XP only took 6 months to match the box and you still cant level but refer to WAR on how to increase it. LOTRO- I will say this probably takes the longest I have ever seen to max out but its just a grind when you break it down. Any other games I missed and no full loot free for all pvp is really not that hard as you can farm noobs but no real reason or proof that you are consistantly good. Please dont talk about Darkfall as it is not released yet. WOW- take your best players against other of the best players and win. If you lose you lose rating if you win you gain a rating. Win enough times without losing and you max out.
Guildwars is far better than Wow when it comes to skill. In GW you only win a PvP battle if you are best, not because you have better gear. And the PvE is a lot harder, particulary in hard mode. GW have other issues but it is far more difficult than Wow.
That only 1% will have the best gear isnt really proven yet either.
Yes, I got one, Anarchy Online Classic. Granted they didn't have this epeen title alot of the idiots I see who play WoW stroke with a passion, the grind and difficulty to get to endgame, gear up and find the proper implantset(spec builds really) was insane and changed quite often. The top build/class combination one day could be bottom the next day. They lessened it quite a bit with Shadowlands (which took away from the cyberpunk atmosphere to create some shitty high-fantasy setting), even more with Alien Invasion and Lost Eden is just a copycat from WoW's arenas and battlegrounds so lets just skip that one. I laugh at what people call twinks in WoW too. BG twinks just require gold, nothing else. So you can run around one-shot people and is impossible to kill for the regular player. Call that skill? I sure don't. I don't hate WoW like alot of people around here do for some reason, but to read the fanboys spewing nonsense is downright ridiculous, allthough a little entertaining if only to laugh a little at their idiocity. Also note that I said classis mmo's. Since when did Lotro/AoC and War become classic mmo's? Edit:People also say they have to grind in WoW is shit, calling a 6 month grind insane. I spent bloody years getting my shitty engineer in AO to endgame. Todays mmoplayer is, to be blunt, a spoiled brat expecting to be handheld and guided towards whatever shiny carrot the devs dangle at the end.
Anarchy online was difficult to properly make a character [translation: easy to screw a character up], but that doesn't mean the game was hard to actually play. It was they typical tank, dps and healer model. Sure it was hard to find specific equipment, but that is the same for most games and what keeps people pursuing goals. That doesn't make the gameplay harder does it?
Requiring lengthy leveling times is not a difficult task either, it is just cumbersome.
AO was hard on number crunching min/max, but the gameplay was about standard imho. Lengthy leveling, but I don't think that requiring tons of experience makes up for actual challenging gameplay.
Comments
And this gear will ensure that they stay on top. How exactly is that "hard"? Its not hard when your gear makes you overpowered.
Sounds like a game I want to play. 1% of the population gets to see the gear while the other guys get to get pwned by the gear. Awesome! Sign me up!
Read my posts.
The difference between the highest PvP gear set and the lowest - no rating - set is to be ... 4%.
So that answers your question isn't it.
Just enough to keep the motivation high but not nearly big enough to interfere with skill.
What do you think Blizzard is? FunCom?
Not judging that its harder, because it could very well be. But you also forgot one thing. Some people will get that gear then stop playing to achieve it. Happened when they had rankings and it will happen with this rating system. Some of those people wont be able to hold onto the gear and others will bypass until eventually whoever wants the gear has gotten it. And some of those won't even care if they lose the gear. The accomplishment lies in just getting it. For some thats enough for them. So your 1% now could very well end up being 99% in a year. Then what? A new system? I'm not trying to badger you or anything, it just seems like all you play is WoW. Did you ever try playing DaoC and trying to get that crappy top end gear from ToA? Or how about the raid groups put together in EQ where only one person walked out with an item after 4+ hrs of raiding. Or how about the gear faction grind in Vangaurd which seemed impossible to even get without dedication when it first came about.
You definitely should choose your words more wisely. And better yet, you should quit making threads to counter other threads. You only make yourself look like a fool because you want to continue a grudge over the net. Its pretty plain to see WoW is an easy game. If it wasn't, you honestly think 11 million + people would play it? Go read the boards, all your proof is there. My step sister plays WoW and has plenty of high level characters. Shes 11 years old. And she hates playing challenging games. So what now? I seriously don't even know why I contributed to this post, because threads about gear are so kiddish. GL with whatever, and just enjoy the game. Quit worrying about what other threads say. If they or I think it's easy. It's ok. We are not the government, we cant punish you. It's an opinon, and its ours. Take it with a grain of salt and just move on.
Isn't it great that a company catering for the general public - read youngsters and grandmothers - also can include a very hardcore rating system to obtain very rare epic gear that only 1% of the players (or even less) can and will have?
It shows one thing to me: Blizzard has indeed balls if they think to get away with it.
So no carebear here. And that's all I wanted to show.
You're right - for arena, that is. And can we please ban the word "Carebear"?
Well actually the whole 1% thing isnt something to go by. This is only for arena's and not everyone likes or plays them. Many people prefer Bg's or open world pvp , and a huge number of wow players are mainly into pve so that cuts down the % a lot , if the game was centered around arena's and the "whole " population of players did arena's then im sure that % would change a lot, but with the population so spread out in many different play types its hard to get an acurate number, so only being available to 1% of the player base is a lot more about player preferance than anything and only deals with arena players.
Well actually the whole 1% thing isnt something to go by. This is only for arena's and not everyone likes or plays them. Many people prefer Bg's or open world pvp , and a huge number of wow players are mainly into pve so that cuts down the % a lot , if the game was centered around arena's and the "whole " population of players did arena's then im sure that % would change a lot, but with the population so spread out in many different play types its hard to get an acurate number, so only being available to 1% of the player base is a lot more about player preferance than anything and only deals with arena players.
Wrong again Boreil.
This is the fourth or fifth time I have to explain how Wow works for PvP. I reckon you don't even play the game. But apparently you try to jump in the discussions.
To get the gear you need to play BOTH in Arena AND in the BG's and the open world PvP. Otherwise you will not get "complete" sets. Get it.?
I am not going into detail but only some pieces come from Arena the rest comes from honor you get from open world PvP and BG's, but they STILL need ratings on the two highest PvP gear sets.
These total gear sets are obtained througout the COMPLETE PVP content. Understand it now ??? And YES !!!! ....Even in the Raids (PVE !!!!!) you can opt to get PVP gear with the badge systems.
So please stop posting before again using non arguments.
Just read the OP.
ok, original post read, check.
The percentage is backed by what fact(s?) and being pulled from where?
I know what a 2200 rating is, but people will play the system and get the items.
I disagree that it's the most difficult gear to get.
WAR's top tier gear is going to take much more effort and time to aquire.
Let me explain this system since I doubt you play many other games.
WAR's top tier gear is only available to people in the King fight. The group needed to go after him is 24 people.
To lock the city in order just to have the shot at him requires about 300 people working together (without opposition mind you, and before they made it much more difficult to do apparently) to lock the appropriate areas to make it even available.
Note there are 5 pieces per set. Odds are you won't get one in just one run. (might see one or two drop, but 24 people rolling...)
Then you have to wait for it to reset and start locking things again.
I bet you that people will have the full arena set in WOW long before anyone can boast having a full set of top tier gear in WAR. And mind you, WAR has almost 2 month's head start. (First lock started to happen about a month ago)
Have a good day. I can agree WOW has some of the hardest gear to get, but I do not think it's top dog.
I was commenting only on the 1% out of 12 mill people able to get these items as not all players do these things needed to get there, so its not an true description of the actual number of players it would be available to if everyone did . A closer to true number would be taking into account only the players who actually TRY and get all of these items and the % who do make it .
Yes your correct i quit wow back when they put in BG's , though my wife still plays it a bit.
Yawn. WoW is really two or three different games/communities, maybe more.
1. People who are obsessed with gear and "pwning" others in PvP, in my opinion the most boring and obnoxious part of the game. The whole idea that it's a grind, and that expansions make past efforts pointless (the whole THING is pointless, silly, that's why it's a GAME) derives from this focus.
2. People who basically solo PvE, and group/guild/duo/trio as the mood strikes, and as the difficulty or crowdedness of a quest/area demands it. The most relaxed and engaging part of the game in my experience.
3. People for whom it is an important part of their social life, whose participation is largely expressed through guilds. I see the appeal, but it can get really tiresome when the expectations begin to resemble a job.
Of course there are smaller niches, such as the heavy duty crafters/sellers; the few who genuinely and creatively roleplay; the solo griefers (bless their hearts).
I fall into the second category, with a certain degree of mental roleplay (I find that going back to Elwynn is oddly nostalgic...(awww, remember when that first cave was scary?)
My overall point is that Blizzard has been brilliant at offering an experience that can be grabbed onto from a wide variety of angles. The people who I hear ragging on it generally seem like they wouldn't be much fun to play with anyway, because it's all about them - being first/strongest/shiniest. The word carebear always carries with it a connotation of the schoolyard bully, it sounds like fa%^ot coming out of the mouth of the biggest kid in 3rd grade. I won't say that all who focus on PvP and gear and firsts are compensating for personal insecurities, but there's an aura/smell of that in so much of their commentary.
happy hunting... it's a game
@OP:
No, just no.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
It depends which class you are. Dps is Dps.
To an extent... Back when I was playing my old account (about 10 months ago) I had a 70 rogue. I didn't have a lot of time to dedicate to raiding and PvP, the most I could spare was a few hours a week for Kara and the occasional Gruul's if I had a free Saturday. I was however quite serious about DPS: I was optimally specced to do raid DPS (went from halfway down damagemeters to first or second every time), had read up all the roguecraft theory, and was into the spreadsheets to compare gear. I found that Kara drops were better for straight-up DPS then most BG pieces and a good number of arena pieces as well, as the raid drops tended to have more attack power and PvP pieces leaned toward stam and agi (stam is basically useless for raid DPS if you control your aggro, and the AP gains outweighed the increased AP from the agility) With that said, I didn't run Kara enough to get all the pieces (or badge pieces to fill the gaps) and was in mix n match Kara drops, badge gear, battleground epics, and a Blinkstrike I bought at the AH (couldn't afford weapon enchants either) and still managed to out-DPS another full-T4 rogue in Gruul's.
My point is, there are differences but they are small enough that you will notice a much bigger gain in simply playing your class optimally.
EverQuest, Old school.... you obviously never played it.
Lol i remember me and my friend would take turns camping Jboots back in 99. I think it took us about 18 hours of non-stop campping to get 6 pairs for the group. I know of other ppl who campped for days and never got them.
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You seem to not have any semblance of a clue what carebear means.
Also, nothing in WoW can be considered difficult, just time consuming. And hey, that was the one thing WoW had going for it, it was casual friendly, thats how it got its subs, but FU to them, just like they did a big FU who joined for the Warcraft lore.
And lastly, my god no, EQ was 100X harder gear wise than this will ever be, as was the DAoC ToA expansion.
Darkfall Travelogues!
You seem to not have any semblance of a clue what carebear means.
Also, nothing in WoW can be considered difficult, just time consuming. And hey, that was the one thing WoW had going for it, it was casual friendly, thats how it got its subs, but FU to them, just like they did a big FU who joined for the Warcraft lore.
And lastly, my god no, EQ was 100X harder gear wise than this will ever be, as was the DAoC ToA expansion.
LOL
Now I have proof all those Wow haters ARE blind? They can't even READ.
PVP Gear has a personal RATING system based on a ladder.
Get it? Less than 1% of the people or far less will have access to the HIGHEST PvP gear sets. You may play TEN THOUSAND YEARS and CAMP for a million others, you won't have the present HIGHEST gear sets in the game ever if you are NOT good enough.
That means you will need to do a combined effort in the worldPvP/Bg's/Arena's and ONLY the best of the best will ever get the present highest gear in the game for that moment.
In this respect the game is indeed BY FAR the most difficult MMORPG ever - gear wise to assemble. No use of playing it for 24/24 hours. Not good enough is simply NOT good enough.
Some servers will not even see the highest gear, because the calculations and personal rating systems ......are made per server cluster BATTLEGROUPS of 18 or more realms (servers).
So it beats the hell out of the botters and no lifers on EQ1 and everything beyon in MMORPG land
Hate makes you blind apparently
But indeed Wow (by its sheer system) can calculate just how good you are in PvP and distribute gear accordingly.
Everquest was only "harder" to get gear in, because of the artificial bottlenecks and time sinks put into the game. There was nothing skill based that prevented most people from getting most items.
Just because Nagafen only spawned every several days didn't mean it was skill based challenge to kill him. There was just a limited resource that people could get. Once the artificial time barriers (spawn timers) were removed everyone and their grandmother had epic quest weapons.
People need to stop confusing time sinks as difficulty. What the original poster is saying about how arena pvp weapons is true. It will be earned through player skill compared against other players skill as far as I can tell. I don't agree with all of his points and I'm sure Blizzard will find a way to tone it down in some fashion so it doesn't turn into yet another high warlord grind. Still it is more challenging than most things in MMOs.
Nothing skill based? are you serious?. Complete heal cycling, with no pansy localized mods? Placement AOEs and an insane team effort, with most people on dial up, no voice either. You are going to say it took no skill? Craziest thing I ever heard.
EQ did have sinks, it also took a lot of skill and determination when it came to raiding. BOTH of these combined, made it difficult, but very damn rewarding.
I would say that bottlenecking was more so in PoP, that expansion really weeded out the high end guilds from every other guild. Getting 72 ppl to act as one was not a easy task. TRC was not easy and did take skill from the whole raid with all that tank mezing going on with the mobs that could not be mezed by a chanter. All it took was one person messin up that could start a chain reaction of one mob getting free... and once that happens its pertty much over with. Nor was Xeg..even Ralloz could one shot your tank.
** Misses the healing chain**
"set heals at half a second intervals"
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Complete heal was one of the most over powered skills ever in a MMO. Clerics casting complete heal in a timed rotation took almost any challenge out of an encounter.
Almost every single encounter in the first few expansions consisted of the following strategy.
Tank: position mob so it faces away from the raid. Preferably blair witch style in a corner. Clerics 1-4 each take turns casting complete heal evey 3-5 seconds [depending on the fight]. Shaman/Enchanter magic debuff and slow [prefer shaman slow]. Maybe a defensive warrior rotation if needed. Everyone else pile on damage and heal raid as best possible.
Sure plenty of aspects about EQ were hard and required skill, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it wasn't some skill based game where people were denied content and only the top people COULD complete the content. EQ was more restrictive due to very limited number of boss spawns, high gear requirements to advance and amount of time investment needed to do high end content. Having 30-70 warm bodies online [the could mobilize fast] was more important to advancing in the games content than have 50 skillful people online at 7pm every night.
While I am not in agreement with everything the original poster is claiming, he is right that the arena rating system is based on a players skill [cheating aside]. Simply pouring time into arenas won't win the best gear. There is no boss encounter strategy to read that will result in winning. I am far from a fan of WoWs arena system, but I'm sure for people who are into that kind of thing they enjoy it very much and this is something people will compete over.
I do agree that arena gear is difficult to get assuming you dont cheat or buy your way there which is possible.
Blizzard did kind of a switch and now PVE is the welfare epics and I admit I did not see that coming at all. I know I could not pull a 2250 rating regardless of how much I practiced. Yes I know certain classes are easier than others from month to month but to get that rating does take skill.
To me its not fun even though I am not the best but because there are teams that you just cant beat because of the system. I know some great players and they agree that yes you do need a certain spec and certain class to rise to the top which takes some of the skill out but for those that have that they still have to push the buttons and work together.
Hats off to those upper arena guys.
Playing- Guild Wars 2, SWTOR
SWTOR Referral Link Get a free Server Transfer and lots of other free stuff for your SWTOR account! Works for both new and previous players.
lol..WoW hard? What are you smoking? WoW is easymode deluxe. Obviously you never played some of the classic mmo's out there. Granted arena is quite competitive it's not hard. Get the right class and spec and 75% of the work is done, rest is down to patience, knowledge of your class and a little luck now and then. It's the same with PvP all over the place really. On the other hand, WoW's PvE is laughable easy and when you learn the scripted encounters its easymode to raid epics.
Anyway, this thread is a flamebait and should be reported and closed. The OP should be tempbanned aswell.
...and done.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Although I appreciate your very veg and empty reply ,as I am at work and will read it anyway due to boredom but could you please suggest a game that requires more? I have played some of them and I cant think of any.
EVE- best ship/ most isk wins the fight no real incentive other than to pod kill someone for fun and take what loot they had but no real way to advance since there is no rank system other than bountys if ya count that. If you killed 100 players in a row with out losing would ya get anything for it?
WAR- hang out around people that give renoun when you kill em then eventually you will max out with renoun.
AOC- sweet PVP XP only took 6 months to match the box and you still cant level but refer to WAR on how to increase it.
LOTRO- I will say this probably takes the longest I have ever seen to max out but its just a grind when you break it down.
Any other games I missed and no full loot free for all pvp is really not that hard as you can farm noobs but no real reason or proof that you are consistantly good.
Please dont talk about Darkfall as it is not released yet.
WOW- take your best players against other of the best players and win. If you lose you lose rating if you win you gain a rating. Win enough times without losing and you max out.
Playing- Guild Wars 2, SWTOR
SWTOR Referral Link Get a free Server Transfer and lots of other free stuff for your SWTOR account! Works for both new and previous players.
Yes, I got one, Anarchy Online Classic. Granted they didn't have this epeen title alot of the idiots I see who play WoW stroke with a passion, the grind and difficulty to get to endgame, gear up and find the proper implantset(spec builds really) was insane and changed quite often. The top build/class combination one day could be bottom the next day.
They lessened it quite a bit with Shadowlands (which took away from the cyberpunk atmosphere to create some shitty high-fantasy setting and made everyone ridicously rich due to ingots, which Funcom, in their infinte stupidity removed from the game a few years later, screwing the already screwed up economy even more), even more with Alien Invasion and Lost Eden is just a copycat from WoW's arenas and battlegrounds so lets just skip that one.
I laugh at what people call twinks in WoW too. BG twinks just require gold, nothing else. So you can run around one-shot people and you're impossible to kill for the regular player. Call that skill? I sure don't.
I don't hate WoW like alot of people around here do for some reason, but to read the fanboys spewing nonsense is downright ridiculous, allthough a little entertaining if only to laugh a little at their idiocity.
Also note that I said classis mmo's. Since when did Lotro/AoC and War become classic mmo's?
Edit:People also say that the grind in WoW is shit, calling a 6 month grind insane. I spent bloody years getting my shitty engineer in AO to endgame and that was just the leveling. I never got to the top in the towerbattles that used to rage on in AO as they had some real cuttroath players at the top. The forumdrama and hate that sometimes spawned in the forums where quite the sight at the time. Todays mmoplayer is, to be blunt, a spoiled brat expecting to be handheld and guided towards whatever shiny carrot the devs dangle at the end but that's what you get when you open up the genre to the mainstream.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Guildwars is far better than Wow when it comes to skill. In GW you only win a PvP battle if you are best, not because you have better gear. And the PvE is a lot harder, particulary in hard mode. GW have other issues but it is far more difficult than Wow.
That only 1% will have the best gear isnt really proven yet either.
Anarchy online was difficult to properly make a character [translation: easy to screw a character up], but that doesn't mean the game was hard to actually play. It was they typical tank, dps and healer model. Sure it was hard to find specific equipment, but that is the same for most games and what keeps people pursuing goals. That doesn't make the gameplay harder does it?
Requiring lengthy leveling times is not a difficult task either, it is just cumbersome.
AO was hard on number crunching min/max, but the gameplay was about standard imho. Lengthy leveling, but I don't think that requiring tons of experience makes up for actual challenging gameplay.