Yes, I got one, Anarchy Online Classic. Granted they didn't have this epeen title alot of the idiots I see who play WoW stroke with a passion, the grind and difficulty to get to endgame, gear up and find the proper implantset(spec builds really) was insane and changed quite often. The top build/class combination one day could be bottom the next day. They lessened it quite a bit with Shadowlands (which took away from the cyberpunk atmosphere to create some shitty high-fantasy setting), even more with Alien Invasion and Lost Eden is just a copycat from WoW's arenas and battlegrounds so lets just skip that one. I laugh at what people call twinks in WoW too. BG twinks just require gold, nothing else. So you can run around one-shot people and is impossible to kill for the regular player. Call that skill? I sure don't. I don't hate WoW like alot of people around here do for some reason, but to read the fanboys spewing nonsense is downright ridiculous, allthough a little entertaining if only to laugh a little at their idiocity. Also note that I said classis mmo's. Since when did Lotro/AoC and War become classic mmo's? Edit:People also say they have to grind in WoW is shit, calling a 6 month grind insane. I spent bloody years getting my shitty engineer in AO to endgame. Todays mmoplayer is, to be blunt, a spoiled brat expecting to be handheld and guided towards whatever shiny carrot the devs dangle at the end.
Anarchy online was difficult to properly make a character [translation: easy to screw a character up], but that doesn't mean the game was hard to actually play. It was they typical tank, dps and healer model. Sure it was hard to find specific equipment, but that is the same for most games and what keeps people pursuing goals. That doesn't make the gameplay harder does it?
Requiring lengthy leveling times is not a difficult task either, it is just cumbersome.
AO was hard on number crunching min/max, but the gameplay was about standard imho. Lengthy leveling, but I don't think that requiring tons of experience makes up for actual challenging gameplay.
Well, did you compete in Notum Wars aka Tower Battles? That was the hardest pvp I've ever done in any game. Granted lenghty leveling times doesn't equal hard game, it sure was a test on your patience. The other point with the proper build is what made AO so challening aswell. It was so damn easy to screw your character up, forcing you to reroll and do some research before you spent those ip-points. I liked that with the game. It weeded out the stupid. AO was a min/max'ers wet dream too, but sadly, the game is a complete joke today compared to what it used to be.
Just to give you a heads up... I've been playing MMOs since they came out and I've played more than I can remember. WoW is not the hardest game to get gear in. You should try playing Everquest, Anarchy Online, or Dark Age of Camelot. When you have to wait for 72 hours for a mob to spawn and you have to have your character sitting there in order to prevent someone else from claiming the camp, just to get an item you need for one part of the chain of quests for the gear you want, then you can complain.
Facts about WoW- In my experience WoW seems to be geared towards 12 year olds. It has all the things Tweeners love... collecting, repetition, violence, and cartoons. It's extremely simple to play... any wizard in a raid will tell you that. It's not overly hard to complete a chain of quests nor is it hard to get the items or faction needed... it just requires grinding.
If you want to see hard go play EQ2 or Vanguard... those games make WoW look like a walk in the park. The reason they're called Mature MMOs isn't because they have nudity, it's because they take patience and dedication. Quit complaining about WoW being so dificult and either move on to Hello Kitty Online, or buck up little bronco, because you're seriously deluded.
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
Sure plenty of aspects about EQ were hard and required skill, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it wasn't some skill based game where people were denied content and only the top people COULD complete the content. EQ was more restrictive due to very limited number of boss spawns, high gear requirements to advance and amount of time investment needed to do high end content. Having 30-70 warm bodies online [the could mobilize fast] was more important to advancing in the games content than have 50 skillful people online at 7pm every night.
While I am not in agreement with everything the original poster is claiming, he is right that the arena rating system is based on a players skill [cheating aside]. Simply pouring time into arenas won't win the best gear. There is no boss encounter strategy to read that will result in winning. I am far from a fan of WoWs arena system, but I'm sure for people who are into that kind of thing they enjoy it very much and this is something people will compete over.
I am glad at least SOME people read the posts of why I consider the PvP epic gear in Wow by FAR the best gear to get in ANY MMORPG these days. Tx for the readers....
Because it is rated and has a ladder system, only the very few of the very few will get to the best gear at present day Wow. Take the best 100 players in the world and let them have a competition: 50% of them will be UNDER 1500 ))
Because the ladder system is based on server clusters of about 18 servers, these gear sets will only be available to a few dozen out of .... 180.000 subscribed players.
I think it is fair to say that each server has about 10.000 subscribed players (not concurrent players), so being the top out of 180.000players or more is something awesome (at a 2200 rating).
I am VERY proud of my 4x Brutal gladiotor gear sets and rival/duelist status on my characters and yes I am NOT a top gladiator, but I think this system is awesome and awards basically the best PvP people.
For those intrested the new Wow PvP sets and season will be out on Dec 14th. See you all there. And Lake wintergrasp gives even 1000 honor as a loser alone ).
I am glad at least SOME people read the posts of why I consider the PvP epic gear in Wow by FAR the best gear to get in ANY MMORPG these days. Tx for the readers....
Because it is rated and has a ladder system, only the very few of the very few will get to the best gear at present day Wow. Take the best 100 players in the world and let them have a competition: 50% of them will be UNDER 1500 )) Because the ladder system is based on server clusters of about 18 servers, these gear sets will only be available to a few dozen out of .... 180.000 subscribed players. I think it is fair to say that each server has about 10.000 subscribed players (not concurrent players), so being the top out of 180.000players or more is something awesome (at a 2200 rating). I am VERY proud of my 4x Brutal gladiotor gear sets and rival/duelist status on my characters and yes I am NOT a top gladiator, but I think this system is awesome and awards basically the best PvP people. For those intrested the new Wow PvP sets and season will be out on Dec 14th. See you all there. And Lake wintergrasp gives even 1000 honor as a loser alone ).
Well, you do start with 1500 points in the arena. You do know what yes? Plus the arena system WoW got is shiteasy to exploit. These are the true welfare epics raiders complain about. You need absolutely no skill at all to go away with some free epics. You don't even need to fight. Also to be successful in the arena you need the right class combination. Why do you think so many play rogue/warrior in the arena? The balance is horrible. As with all the pvp in WoW, the arena is an afterthought aswell. Hastilly slapped together just to please the pvp fans.
OH god, you've really done i now. The amount of hatred there is towards wow on this forums, will lead to total anarchy in this thread. For the record i agree.
I think getting EQ 2.0 epic was far harder than anything in WoW, ya ever have to get an entire raid force together for 1 quest piece of many to drop?
Back then you only got people to do it on your merit, because generally, no one got anything out of the raid but the person needing the epic part.
So I disagree that WoW is the most difficult mmorpg ever when it comes to gear.
I agree, its been farking months and im still working on getting my epic weapon, and the uberr class armor that drops can drop but also has the chance to drop any of the 24 some classes and nothing at all.
OH god, you've really done i now. The amount of hatred there is towards wow on this forums, will lead to total anarchy in this thread. For the record i agree.
I think getting EQ 2.0 epic was far harder than anything in WoW, ya ever have to get an entire raid force together for 1 quest piece of many to drop?
Back then you only got people to do it on your merit, because generally, no one got anything out of the raid but the person needing the epic part.
So I disagree that WoW is the most difficult mmorpg ever when it comes to gear.
I agree, its been farking months and im still working on getting my epic weapon, and the uberr class armor that drops can drop but also has the chance to drop any of the 24 some classes and nothing at all.
So has this EQ gear a personal needed rating based on a competitive ladder with 180.000 other players (18 realms coupled through one Battlegroup and individual rated ?)
No. this EQ gear is purely based on time consuming efforts, not on the quality of the play in PvP.
So Wow has the most difficult to obtain gear - ever - of any game. It's highest rated PvP gear is at 2200+ unreachable for 99.5% for its players and there is only ONE title for the best of those 180.000 playing.
So EQ2 fails. Even big. This gear in WotLK just doens't drop - ever - you have to EARN it. And only a handfull of a possible 180.000 players do get "it". Combined with the efforts they do in the other parts of world PvP,BG's and Arena.
Isn't that clear ??? NO drop; Not in a million years. Forget EQ, EQ2, that's noob gear compared to the highest PvP gear in Wow.
A LOT of WotLK players will be surprised that the non rated PvP gear will NO longer be epic )
Every purple will be rated in WotLK as of Dec 15 th. ). Expect a LOT of complaining.
Read my posts. The difference between the highest PvP gear set and the lowest - no rating - set is to be ... 4%. So that answers your question isn't it. Just enough to keep the motivation high but not nearly big enough to interfere with skill. What do you think Blizzard is? FunCom?
Keep living in a 4% dreamworld. Luckily, a simple look at the base stats of any class and the available gear on an item database site will prove this is wrong.
Comparing savage and deadly glads for any set, it's not even close to 4% in terms of important stats.
Resilience: Typically 30% more on deadly than savage.
Weapon damage: Typically 30% higher on deadly than savage. And yeah, weapon damage before AP adjustment is hugely important for some classes. PvE weapons are not an option, either. PvE weapons are tuned for a faster speed, so the weapon damage is still lower even though the DPS is comparable. Plus you lose even more resi.
So yeah. There will be a huge resi gap between high-rated players and those without a high rating. There will also be a huge damage gap. Attack power bonuses are anywhere from 30% to 50% higher on most pieces.
Did I mention HP? Yeah, 10% more HP too. Yes, that's after base HP and enchants are counted. If you're looking purely at stamina, deadly glad's has about ~27% more stamina than savage glad's.
Sorry, it's not even close to a cosmetic difference. If you're only slightly better than somebody in full deadly, and you're in savage, you will get destroyed. Any remotely close match-up between somebody in deadly's and somebody in unrated gear will be decided by gear. You would have to be massively better than somebody who outgears you like that to have any chance.
Take the best 100 players in the world and let them have a competition: 50% of them will be UNDER 1500 ))
Wow. You have 4/5 S4, and you don't even realize how the rating system works. This is just completely false.
Hint: Arena is not a true ladder. Your rating does not correspond to your percentile standing. Titles do. Ratings do not.
Just ignore this guy from now on, whenever he talks about arena. Probably carried.
And yeah, it's amazingly easy to exploit the rating system. My friend spent the last few months carrying people to ridiculously high ratings. Guess what rating he carried these scrubs to? That's right. The same rating you need to get the gear you have. Yeah, 5/5 S4 would definitely say something about your quality as an arena player. 4/5, not so much.
It's fine to be excited. Just don't post bullshit. You've posted almost entirely bullshit here.
Oh wait, win trading, too. Yeah, Blizzard has a NPC in Dalaran talking about how win trading is now a thing of the past. LOL.
Take the best 100 players in the world and let them have a competition: 50% of them will be UNDER 1500 ))
Wow. You have 4/5 S4, and you don't even realize how the rating system works. This is just completely false.
Hint: Arena is not a true ladder. Your rating does not correspond to your percentile standing. Titles do. Ratings do not.
Just ignore this guy from now on, whenever he talks about arena. Probably carried.
And yeah, it's amazingly easy to exploit the rating system. My friend spent the last few months carrying people to ridiculously high ratings. Guess what rating he carried these scrubs to? That's right. The same rating you need to get the gear you have. Yeah, 5/5 S4 would definitely say something about your quality as an arena player. 4/5, not so much.
It's fine to be excited. Just don't post bullshit. You've posted almost entirely bullshit here.
Oh wait, win trading, too. Yeah, Blizzard has a NPC in Dalaran talking about how win trading is now a thing of the past. LOL.
What a laugh this guy.
---->So you couldn't counter the fact that Wow has the most difficult highest PvP gear to obtain and so you come insulting me here.
If you can NOT understand a ladder based rating system, well that sucks isn't it?
For each battle you win, you gain points, for each battle you just lost, you're down on the list.
Win trading is already long banned by Blizzard beause you only gain points if other party members are in the same point bracket.
And as WotLK is a first to have ALL high PvP gear at a certain point to have a personal AND team rating: tough luck.
Of course by insulting me, you couldn't counter the first thing I mentioned in my OP could you:
---------------------
NO other MMORPG comes even close to the difficulty factor in obtaining the highest PvP gear because the ladder system assures it and of course titles are rewarded on the highest rankings.
No insults or accusations against Blizzard can counter this very simple fact.
Hold on this always confuses me. In the context of MMO what does "hard" mean?
Is it based on competition? Is it based on time/dedication? Is it based on organizing as many people as possible?
Or is it just a bunch hot air spouted out by people who have no idea what they are talking about as some excuse to feel special?
I don't know. Maybe "hard" means the guy you are fighting has more resilience than you?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
C'mon people, why are you even discussing it? You all should know by now how it works. It's been done so many times before, you should know by now.
First, the gear is extremely hard to get and requires hours, days, weeks and maybe even months to get it. 3-6 months after, new gear gets into game that is better and you get a shortcut to the gear that was formerly only available to you if you grinded for ages. And with the next patch, you practically get that originally oh-so-hard to get gear for (almost) free, or there's some new instance where equally useful gear drops as trashloot.
Remember when you had to get the Masters Key for Karaz? Then suddenly that requirement was lifted. And, surprise, surprise, with the same patch two new top level instances were opened.
See a pattern?
This will continue. Ad infinitum. It has to, for a very simple reason: If they didn't do it, people would stop starting to play. No, seriously, why bother play a game when I have at least 3 years ahead of me to be even close to par with the latest content or be able to participate meaningful in top level PvP? So what used to be hard to get and needed hours and days of tedious battle is streamlined and gets shortcuts. What needs a billion pre-quests today will be stripped of this requirement soon. And that oh-so-hard to get gear of today will be in everyone's hand in no longer than half a year from now for something quite farmable when the next big thing hits the game.
There is nothing that only hardcore gamers will ever get. Everything you have anyone will have. The only difference is that you will have it earlier than others. But nothing will ever be exclusive for your hardcore hands.
Comments
Anarchy online was difficult to properly make a character [translation: easy to screw a character up], but that doesn't mean the game was hard to actually play. It was they typical tank, dps and healer model. Sure it was hard to find specific equipment, but that is the same for most games and what keeps people pursuing goals. That doesn't make the gameplay harder does it?
Requiring lengthy leveling times is not a difficult task either, it is just cumbersome.
AO was hard on number crunching min/max, but the gameplay was about standard imho. Lengthy leveling, but I don't think that requiring tons of experience makes up for actual challenging gameplay.
Well, did you compete in Notum Wars aka Tower Battles? That was the hardest pvp I've ever done in any game. Granted lenghty leveling times doesn't equal hard game, it sure was a test on your patience. The other point with the proper build is what made AO so challening aswell. It was so damn easy to screw your character up, forcing you to reroll and do some research before you spent those ip-points. I liked that with the game. It weeded out the stupid. AO was a min/max'ers wet dream too, but sadly, the game is a complete joke today compared to what it used to be.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Just to give you a heads up... I've been playing MMOs since they came out and I've played more than I can remember. WoW is not the hardest game to get gear in. You should try playing Everquest, Anarchy Online, or Dark Age of Camelot. When you have to wait for 72 hours for a mob to spawn and you have to have your character sitting there in order to prevent someone else from claiming the camp, just to get an item you need for one part of the chain of quests for the gear you want, then you can complain.
Facts about WoW- In my experience WoW seems to be geared towards 12 year olds. It has all the things Tweeners love... collecting, repetition, violence, and cartoons. It's extremely simple to play... any wizard in a raid will tell you that. It's not overly hard to complete a chain of quests nor is it hard to get the items or faction needed... it just requires grinding.
If you want to see hard go play EQ2 or Vanguard... those games make WoW look like a walk in the park. The reason they're called Mature MMOs isn't because they have nudity, it's because they take patience and dedication. Quit complaining about WoW being so dificult and either move on to Hello Kitty Online, or buck up little bronco, because you're seriously deluded.
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
I am glad at least SOME people read the posts of why I consider the PvP epic gear in Wow by FAR the best gear to get in ANY MMORPG these days. Tx for the readers....
Because it is rated and has a ladder system, only the very few of the very few will get to the best gear at present day Wow. Take the best 100 players in the world and let them have a competition: 50% of them will be UNDER 1500
))
Because the ladder system is based on server clusters of about 18 servers, these gear sets will only be available to a few dozen out of .... 180.000 subscribed players.
I think it is fair to say that each server has about 10.000 subscribed players (not concurrent players), so being the top out of 180.000players or more is something awesome (at a 2200 rating).
I am VERY proud of my 4x Brutal gladiotor gear sets and rival/duelist status on my characters and yes I am NOT a top gladiator, but I think this system is awesome and awards basically the best PvP people.
For those intrested the new Wow PvP sets and season will be out on Dec 14th. See you all there. And Lake wintergrasp gives even 1000 honor as a loser alone
).
Well, you do start with 1500 points in the arena. You do know what yes? Plus the arena system WoW got is shiteasy to exploit. These are the true welfare epics raiders complain about. You need absolutely no skill at all to go away with some free epics. You don't even need to fight. Also to be successful in the arena you need the right class combination. Why do you think so many play rogue/warrior in the arena? The balance is horrible. As with all the pvp in WoW, the arena is an afterthought aswell. Hastilly slapped together just to please the pvp fans.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
I think getting EQ 2.0 epic was far harder than anything in WoW, ya ever have to get an entire raid force together for 1 quest piece of many to drop?
Back then you only got people to do it on your merit, because generally, no one got anything out of the raid but the person needing the epic part.
So I disagree that WoW is the most difficult mmorpg ever when it comes to gear.
I agree, its been farking months and im still working on getting my epic weapon, and the uberr class armor that drops can drop but also has the chance to drop any of the 24 some classes and nothing at all.
playing eq2 and two worlds
I think getting EQ 2.0 epic was far harder than anything in WoW, ya ever have to get an entire raid force together for 1 quest piece of many to drop?
Back then you only got people to do it on your merit, because generally, no one got anything out of the raid but the person needing the epic part.
So I disagree that WoW is the most difficult mmorpg ever when it comes to gear.
I agree, its been farking months and im still working on getting my epic weapon, and the uberr class armor that drops can drop but also has the chance to drop any of the 24 some classes and nothing at all.
So has this EQ gear a personal needed rating based on a competitive ladder with 180.000 other players (18 realms coupled through one Battlegroup and individual rated ?)
No. this EQ gear is purely based on time consuming efforts, not on the quality of the play in PvP.
So Wow has the most difficult to obtain gear - ever - of any game. It's highest rated PvP gear is at 2200+ unreachable for 99.5% for its players and there is only ONE title for the best of those 180.000 playing.
So EQ2 fails. Even big. This gear in WotLK just doens't drop - ever - you have to EARN it. And only a handfull of a possible 180.000 players do get "it". Combined with the efforts they do in the other parts of world PvP,BG's and Arena.
Isn't that clear ??? NO drop; Not in a million years. Forget EQ, EQ2, that's noob gear compared to the highest PvP gear in Wow.
A LOT of WotLK players will be surprised that the non rated PvP gear will NO longer be epic
)
Every purple will be rated in WotLK as of Dec 15 th.
). Expect a LOT of complaining.
Keep living in a 4% dreamworld. Luckily, a simple look at the base stats of any class and the available gear on an item database site will prove this is wrong.
Comparing savage and deadly glads for any set, it's not even close to 4% in terms of important stats.
Resilience: Typically 30% more on deadly than savage.
Weapon damage: Typically 30% higher on deadly than savage. And yeah, weapon damage before AP adjustment is hugely important for some classes. PvE weapons are not an option, either. PvE weapons are tuned for a faster speed, so the weapon damage is still lower even though the DPS is comparable. Plus you lose even more resi.
So yeah. There will be a huge resi gap between high-rated players and those without a high rating. There will also be a huge damage gap. Attack power bonuses are anywhere from 30% to 50% higher on most pieces.
Did I mention HP? Yeah, 10% more HP too. Yes, that's after base HP and enchants are counted. If you're looking purely at stamina, deadly glad's has about ~27% more stamina than savage glad's.
Sorry, it's not even close to a cosmetic difference. If you're only slightly better than somebody in full deadly, and you're in savage, you will get destroyed. Any remotely close match-up between somebody in deadly's and somebody in unrated gear will be decided by gear. You would have to be massively better than somebody who outgears you like that to have any chance.
Wow. You have 4/5 S4, and you don't even realize how the rating system works. This is just completely false.
Hint: Arena is not a true ladder. Your rating does not correspond to your percentile standing. Titles do. Ratings do not.
Just ignore this guy from now on, whenever he talks about arena. Probably carried.
And yeah, it's amazingly easy to exploit the rating system. My friend spent the last few months carrying people to ridiculously high ratings. Guess what rating he carried these scrubs to? That's right. The same rating you need to get the gear you have. Yeah, 5/5 S4 would definitely say something about your quality as an arena player. 4/5, not so much.
It's fine to be excited. Just don't post bullshit. You've posted almost entirely bullshit here.
Oh wait, win trading, too. Yeah, Blizzard has a NPC in Dalaran talking about how win trading is now a thing of the past. LOL.
WoW requires time and a little effort. It also requires a little love from the Blizzard 'flavor of the month' God's.
Arena doesn't require time, sorry. Ten matches per week and get your points.
Wow. You have 4/5 S4, and you don't even realize how the rating system works. This is just completely false.
Hint: Arena is not a true ladder. Your rating does not correspond to your percentile standing. Titles do. Ratings do not.
Just ignore this guy from now on, whenever he talks about arena. Probably carried.
And yeah, it's amazingly easy to exploit the rating system. My friend spent the last few months carrying people to ridiculously high ratings. Guess what rating he carried these scrubs to? That's right. The same rating you need to get the gear you have. Yeah, 5/5 S4 would definitely say something about your quality as an arena player. 4/5, not so much.
It's fine to be excited. Just don't post bullshit. You've posted almost entirely bullshit here.
Oh wait, win trading, too. Yeah, Blizzard has a NPC in Dalaran talking about how win trading is now a thing of the past. LOL.
What a laugh this guy.
---->So you couldn't counter the fact that Wow has the most difficult highest PvP gear to obtain and so you come insulting me here.
If you can NOT understand a ladder based rating system, well that sucks isn't it?
For each battle you win, you gain points, for each battle you just lost, you're down on the list.
Win trading is already long banned by Blizzard beause you only gain points if other party members are in the same point bracket.
And as WotLK is a first to have ALL high PvP gear at a certain point to have a personal AND team rating: tough luck.
Of course by insulting me, you couldn't counter the first thing I mentioned in my OP could you:
---------------------
NO other MMORPG comes even close to the difficulty factor in obtaining the highest PvP gear because the ladder system assures it and of course titles are rewarded on the highest rankings.
No insults or accusations against Blizzard can counter this very simple fact.
Tough luck. Go somewhere else.
there is no really hard thing i wow. it all just takes time. u can get anything u want, it just take some time
Hold on this always confuses me. In the context of MMO what does "hard" mean?
Is it based on competition?
Is it based on time/dedication?
Is it based on organizing as many people as possible?
Or is it just a bunch hot air spouted out by people who have no idea what they are talking about as some excuse to feel special?
I don't know. Maybe "hard" means the guy you are fighting has more resilience than you?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
C'mon people, why are you even discussing it? You all should know by now how it works. It's been done so many times before, you should know by now.
First, the gear is extremely hard to get and requires hours, days, weeks and maybe even months to get it. 3-6 months after, new gear gets into game that is better and you get a shortcut to the gear that was formerly only available to you if you grinded for ages. And with the next patch, you practically get that originally oh-so-hard to get gear for (almost) free, or there's some new instance where equally useful gear drops as trashloot.
Remember when you had to get the Masters Key for Karaz? Then suddenly that requirement was lifted. And, surprise, surprise, with the same patch two new top level instances were opened.
See a pattern?
This will continue. Ad infinitum. It has to, for a very simple reason: If they didn't do it, people would stop starting to play. No, seriously, why bother play a game when I have at least 3 years ahead of me to be even close to par with the latest content or be able to participate meaningful in top level PvP? So what used to be hard to get and needed hours and days of tedious battle is streamlined and gets shortcuts. What needs a billion pre-quests today will be stripped of this requirement soon. And that oh-so-hard to get gear of today will be in everyone's hand in no longer than half a year from now for something quite farmable when the next big thing hits the game.
There is nothing that only hardcore gamers will ever get. Everything you have anyone will have. The only difference is that you will have it earlier than others. But nothing will ever be exclusive for your hardcore hands.