If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
Buying TCG cards isn't gambling for the same reason buying a large fry with a Monopoly game piece from McDonald's isn't gambling. You pay for a product and you get said product. The product simply has a chance to be worth more than you paid via an in-game item or an HDTV or what-have-you.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
Sharkypal m8, i think this is a lost argument, people are just too ignorant to the fact that it's quite literally gambling, even after i posted the definition of the word as it is in dictionaries earlier.
Why would anyone not want players to know these things?
You have to wonder why Obraik et al seem so vehemently opposed to this. It defies the logic that any consumer would apply to this type of situation. He'd rather the government regulated people's right to have a credit card (based on their various predispositions) according to his previous comments
S
I've told you the reason for my stance on this. I suggest you take your own advice and read through the thread. If all you got out of it is "credit card regulation" then it shows just how much reading you've actually done in this thread.
Lol, no I also got that you are incapable of objective commentary when it comes to SWG. I came to this conclusion because that IS what you said concerning credit cards and it is an irrational statement. As I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The issues have been clearly presented to you and you continue to sail down denial (it's not just a river in Egypt).
S
Yes, because your opinion is the only valid one and anyone else is denial...
No, once again, my opinion is based on my experiences with every other promotion that I've been part of day to day, not on some "blind worship of SWG"
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
Sharkypal m8, i think this is a lost argument, people are just too ignorant to the fact that it's quite literally gambling, even after i posted the definition of the word as it is in dictionaries earlier.
Yeah Im going to leave this thread be. Im in communication with several agencies who are taking a very real interest in this. When I have some news, I'll be sure to share it.
Why would anyone not want players to know these things?
You have to wonder why Obraik et al seem so vehemently opposed to this. It defies the logic that any consumer would apply to this type of situation. He'd rather the government regulated people's right to have a credit card (based on their various predispositions) according to his previous comments
S
I've told you the reason for my stance on this. I suggest you take your own advice and read through the thread. If all you got out of it is "credit card regulation" then it shows just how much reading you've actually done in this thread.
Lol, no I also got that you are incapable of objective commentary when it comes to SWG. I came to this conclusion because that IS what you said concerning credit cards and it is an irrational statement. As I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The issues have been clearly presented to you and you continue to sail down denial (it's not just a river in Egypt).
S
Yes, because your opinion is the only valid one and anyone else is denial...
No, once again, my opinion is based on my experiences with every other promotion that I've been part of day to day, not on some "blind worship of SWG"
This has nothing to do with your one sided, incontravertibly biased "experiences". This has to do with facts and definitions that are not open to your interpretations.
It fits the definition of gambling and lottery (although these are apparently different in NZ)
Your opinons are based on the "blind worship of SWG" son, you are the essence of unobjective commentary.
There is nothing left to say, except that based on all the available facts, you are wrong.
The same thing happened in SL and it’s actually illegal to gamble, run casinos ect, they were shut down by the FBI. SOE is making the money and since you pay money for these cards there can actually be a real world value attributed to these virtual items. This could be considered a form of internet gambling, whether it’s illegal is a different story, and I’m sure smed+SOE knows this. It is unethical, I will say that.
Why would anyone not want players to know these things?
You have to wonder why Obraik et al seem so vehemently opposed to this. It defies the logic that any consumer would apply to this type of situation. He'd rather the government regulated people's right to have a credit card (based on their various predispositions) according to his previous comments
S
I've told you the reason for my stance on this. I suggest you take your own advice and read through the thread. If all you got out of it is "credit card regulation" then it shows just how much reading you've actually done in this thread.
Lol, no I also got that you are incapable of objective commentary when it comes to SWG. I came to this conclusion because that IS what you said concerning credit cards and it is an irrational statement. As I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The issues have been clearly presented to you and you continue to sail down denial (it's not just a river in Egypt).
S
Yes, because your opinion is the only valid one and anyone else is denial...
No, once again, my opinion is based on my experiences with every other promotion that I've been part of day to day, not on some "blind worship of SWG"
This has nothing to do with your one sided, incontravertibly biased "experiences". This has to do with facts and definitions that are not open to your interpretations.
It fits the definition of gambling and lottery (although these are apparently different in NZ)
Your opinons are based on the "blind worship of SWG" son, you are the essence of unobjective commentary.
There is nothing left to say, except that based on all the available facts, you are wrong.
Regards,
S
It's not fact, it's your perception of the TCG.
I can assure you that no, my argument has little do with any SWG influence Once again, since you've failed to read it countless times now, my opinion is based on how I see every other promotion done by every other company.
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
Frankly, I see setting people up to gamble real cash for virtual items as more problematic, not less. Even after people spend say $100 and maybe even win; in the end, what they have can still be deleted or modified by SOE at any time. This really just adds another layer to the scam for me.
By the way, people gamble for services all the time, not just goods. You can buy tickets to win a vacation for example. The vacation isn't a "thing" (or a product), it's an experience (or a service). The vacation of course has a monetary value, and so do these virtual cards.
In the case of SOE's loot card deal, people are gambling for the chance to enhance their SWG experience with buffs or superior vehicles. They're gambling for the experience, which is made available to them in the form of a virtual card that they may or may not win.
SOE seems to have a habit of pushing the ethical envelope. They don't have to function this way. They could easily have implemented a TCG without the gamble for loot cards component. Maybe people would have liked it. From what I've seen, apart from breaking immersion, there's not much to dislike--except the loot card gamble.
They could also have easily introduced new content, like quest rewards or loot schematics offering in-game buffs and/or new vehicles. I'm quite sure people would have liked that. What's not to like about new schematics that are introduced as part of your subscription fee?
No, there were ways SOE could have done this that would have raised no legal/ethical questions, and that would have benefitted the game and its players. For some strange reason, SOE doesn't seem willing or able to deal with people this way. It's bizarre.
P.S. Good idea to get some people in the business of regulating games of chance to look into this. Nothing to lose there at all. Whatever you find out, I'm sure we'll all find it enlightening.
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
i think the difference is that you arent getting anything tangible or of value. I can go to a hotel in SWG and play lugjack and win credits - is that gambling? I pay a monthly subscription fee and have a chance to win virtual credits that cannot be redeemed for RL money or RL items
I think the obvious difference (if you're willing to see it) is that in lugjack, you're not paying real dollars to the Sony Online Store hoping to win something that adds to your real gameplay experience.
Surely you can see the difference made by gambling with real money?
I've noticed that despite all the debate, no one has answered some simple questions posed earlier. If this is risking real money on a chance outcome, why not just call it what it is? Why not let people know about the actual odds of winning? Why not inform them of the risks of playing? Why not ensure that the odds of winning are in fact verifiable? What harm would any of these steps do? It seems to me that they could only benefit all players, why the resistance?
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play ,yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
i think the difference is that you arent getting anything tangible or of value. I can go to a hotel in SWG and play lugjack and win credits - is that gambling? I pay a monthly subscription fee and have a chance to win virtual credits that cannot be redeemed for RL money or RL items
I think the obvious difference (if you're willing to see it) is that in lugjack, you're not paying real dollars to the Sony Online Store hoping to win something that adds to your real gameplay experience.
Surely you can see the difference made by gambling with real money?
I've noticed that despite all the debate, no one has answered some simple questions posed earlier. If this is risking real money on a chance outcome, why not just call it what it is? Why not let people know about the actual odds of winning? Why not inform them of the risks of playing? Why not ensure that the odds of winning are in fact verifiable? What harm would any of these steps do? It seems to me that they could only benefit all players, why the resistance? because gambling also comes with an age limit
i guess from what i've seen here some ppl don't have any problem with drug dealers or traffickers either as they don't force ppl to buy from them and it's up to the addicts if they want to spend their money
If I were SOE and SWG was the failure it is and I have the bad reputation from this game that SOE does, I would want to milk as much money from SWG as possible as well. I don't blame SOE one bit for the TCG, it's a great idea and it's probably making them quite a bit more money than just the SWG subs were. I don't see how they are accountable for the actions of those who play the game... It's a weak attempt to blame SOE for the actions of the players. SOE has done a hell of a lot of things wrong but the TCG isn't one of them. Players are accountable to themselves. SOE isn't forcing them to play the TCG.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play ,yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
i think the difference is that you arent getting anything tangible or of value. I can go to a hotel in SWG and play lugjack and win credits - is that gambling? I pay a monthly subscription fee and have a chance to win virtual credits that cannot be redeemed for RL money or RL items
I think the obvious difference (if you're willing to see it) is that in lugjack, you're not paying real dollars to the Sony Online Store hoping to win something that adds to your real gameplay experience.
Surely you can see the difference made by gambling with real money?
I've noticed that despite all the debate, no one has answered some simple questions posed earlier. If this is risking real money on a chance outcome, why not just call it what it is? Why not let people know about the actual odds of winning? Why not inform them of the risks of playing? Why not ensure that the odds of winning are in fact verifiable? What harm would any of these steps do? It seems to me that they could only benefit all players, why the resistance? because gambling also comes with an age limit
i guess from what i've seen here some ppl don't have any problem with drug dealers or traffickers either as they don't force ppl to buy from them and it's up to the addicts if they want to spend their money
Good point.
There is also a very clear danger that minors will be exploited by this unregulated nonsense.
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign.
In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience.
In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional:
The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided.
The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever.
This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run.
Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality.
For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
I posted this on the vet forum, but also wanted to post it here, since the forums are sometimes read by different groups of people. I've read some posts about people losing a lot of money trying to get a specific loot card in the StarWars TCG. Has that happened to anyone on this board? I'd be curious to know what you were after, how much it cost you, and whether or not you ever actually got what you were looking for.
Those got to be the biggest suckers ever to grace the earth to throw money away at a chance to get a loot card that you dont really own.....
I dont get point of this discussion. Some think it is gamibling and other dont. Does it matter what you think? No. If goverment( or whatever it is responsible for gambling) cannot shut them down so there is no point in this discussion because it wont change anything.
I never played this game. I see what they do simply as lottery. If you wanna spend money you can do so. It is your problem. I think everyone understand that they spent money for chance to get certain item (if they need certain of course).
Some say they want to raise awareness about this. But what can be raised when it is so obvious. You spent money (sort of gambling) and get random item.
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
well i'm sure you described it as gambling to them but when they look into it its just buying cards and getting some rare items from it, just like pokemon, magich the gathering etc etc. don't be to sad when they say your wrong. but we will see, they may just agree with you and shutdown all tcgs ruining fun games for everyone out there.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
well i'm sure you described it as gambling to them but when they look into it its just buying cards and getting some rare items from it, just like pokemon, magich the gathering etc etc. don't be to sad when they say your wrong. but we will see, they may just agree with you and shutdown all tcgs ruining fun games for everyone out there.
Another person who doesnt understand the difference between the VAST majority of card games out there and the TCG. These differences have been heavily documented in this thread. I think you'll find that if they werent interested, I wouldn't have had the replies I've had. They would have told me to sod off in the 1st place, which they most certainly have not.
well i'm sure you described it as gambling to them but when they look into it its just buying cards and getting some rare items from it, just like pokemon, magich the gathering etc etc. don't be to sad when they say your wrong. but we will see, they may just agree with you and shutdown all tcgs ruining fun games for everyone out there.
Another person who doesnt understand the difference between the VAST majority of card games out there and the TCG. These differences have been heavily documented in this thread. I think you'll find that if they werent interested, I wouldn't have had the replies I've had. They would have told me to sod off in the 1st place, which they most certainly have not.
S
actually i have played all of them i know the difference, you just want to make it something it isn't. they all promote the same habits period, and people buy them like mad.
even if it is gambling the most they would do is put an age limit on who can buy the cards just like being able to go into a casino. it would ask for an age check at the registers when they are too be sold so no they won't ever go away and will still sell tons of cards since parents at that point will be responsible for buying them for their kids if they decide to do so.
They probably havn't told you to sod off because they have to look into it first, like i said we will see.
Edit: the same behaviors happen with minatures games, they make a rare model and people spend all their money trying to get them, its the same thing just like wow's tcg and its rare ingame cards, its all the same but its funny reading peoples posts trying to seperate them all.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign. In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience. In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional: http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided. The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever. This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run. Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality. For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread.
Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native Americanreservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water.
One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so.
When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Comments
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
no because im not a idiot
Buying TCG cards isn't gambling for the same reason buying a large fry with a Monopoly game piece from McDonald's isn't gambling. You pay for a product and you get said product. The product simply has a chance to be worth more than you paid via an in-game item or an HDTV or what-have-you.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
Sharkypal m8, i think this is a lost argument, people are just too ignorant to the fact that it's quite literally gambling, even after i posted the definition of the word as it is in dictionaries earlier.
You have to wonder why Obraik et al seem so vehemently opposed to this. It defies the logic that any consumer would apply to this type of situation. He'd rather the government regulated people's right to have a credit card (based on their various predispositions) according to his previous comments
S
I've told you the reason for my stance on this. I suggest you take your own advice and read through the thread. If all you got out of it is "credit card regulation" then it shows just how much reading you've actually done in this thread.
Lol, no I also got that you are incapable of objective commentary when it comes to SWG. I came to this conclusion because that IS what you said concerning credit cards and it is an irrational statement. As I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The issues have been clearly presented to you and you continue to sail down denial (it's not just a river in Egypt).
S
Yes, because your opinion is the only valid one and anyone else is denial...
No, once again, my opinion is based on my experiences with every other promotion that I've been part of day to day, not on some "blind worship of SWG"
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
Sharkypal m8, i think this is a lost argument, people are just too ignorant to the fact that it's quite literally gambling, even after i posted the definition of the word as it is in dictionaries earlier.
Yeah Im going to leave this thread be. Im in communication with several agencies who are taking a very real interest in this. When I have some news, I'll be sure to share it.
S
You have to wonder why Obraik et al seem so vehemently opposed to this. It defies the logic that any consumer would apply to this type of situation. He'd rather the government regulated people's right to have a credit card (based on their various predispositions) according to his previous comments
S
I've told you the reason for my stance on this. I suggest you take your own advice and read through the thread. If all you got out of it is "credit card regulation" then it shows just how much reading you've actually done in this thread.
Lol, no I also got that you are incapable of objective commentary when it comes to SWG. I came to this conclusion because that IS what you said concerning credit cards and it is an irrational statement. As I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The issues have been clearly presented to you and you continue to sail down denial (it's not just a river in Egypt).
S
Yes, because your opinion is the only valid one and anyone else is denial...
No, once again, my opinion is based on my experiences with every other promotion that I've been part of day to day, not on some "blind worship of SWG"
This has nothing to do with your one sided, incontravertibly biased "experiences". This has to do with facts and definitions that are not open to your interpretations.
It fits the definition of gambling and lottery (although these are apparently different in NZ)
Your opinons are based on the "blind worship of SWG" son, you are the essence of unobjective commentary.
There is nothing left to say, except that based on all the available facts, you are wrong.
Regards,
S
The same thing happened in SL and it’s actually illegal to gamble, run casinos ect, they were shut down by the FBI. SOE is making the money and since you pay money for these cards there can actually be a real world value attributed to these virtual items. This could be considered a form of internet gambling, whether it’s illegal is a different story, and I’m sure smed+SOE knows this. It is unethical, I will say that.
You have to wonder why Obraik et al seem so vehemently opposed to this. It defies the logic that any consumer would apply to this type of situation. He'd rather the government regulated people's right to have a credit card (based on their various predispositions) according to his previous comments
S
I've told you the reason for my stance on this. I suggest you take your own advice and read through the thread. If all you got out of it is "credit card regulation" then it shows just how much reading you've actually done in this thread.
Lol, no I also got that you are incapable of objective commentary when it comes to SWG. I came to this conclusion because that IS what you said concerning credit cards and it is an irrational statement. As I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The issues have been clearly presented to you and you continue to sail down denial (it's not just a river in Egypt).
S
Yes, because your opinion is the only valid one and anyone else is denial...
No, once again, my opinion is based on my experiences with every other promotion that I've been part of day to day, not on some "blind worship of SWG"
This has nothing to do with your one sided, incontravertibly biased "experiences". This has to do with facts and definitions that are not open to your interpretations.
It fits the definition of gambling and lottery (although these are apparently different in NZ)
Your opinons are based on the "blind worship of SWG" son, you are the essence of unobjective commentary.
There is nothing left to say, except that based on all the available facts, you are wrong.
Regards,
S
It's not fact, it's your perception of the TCG.
I can assure you that no, my argument has little do with any SWG influence
Once again, since you've failed to read it countless times now, my opinion is based on how I see every other promotion done by every other company.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
Obviously, no one forces you to buy the cards. Im not really that interested in that aspect of it. There IS an element of self control involved, but the real issue here is that SOE is involved in an illegal lottery that needs to be regulated and made to comply with state, provinvial and international law.
S
you gotta win something of value for it to be a lottery that needs regulation. . .
Yah, and as you have been told already, because these cards sell for real money and the items sell for real money, they have monetary value. SOE have made it difficult to pin this down, but its an illegal gambling operation, pure and simple.
S
but you're not paying for the "cards" (which dont exist); you're paying for the entertainment. The same thing we all pay for in our monthly subscription.
Frankly, I see setting people up to gamble real cash for virtual items as more problematic, not less. Even after people spend say $100 and maybe even win; in the end, what they have can still be deleted or modified by SOE at any time. This really just adds another layer to the scam for me.
By the way, people gamble for services all the time, not just goods. You can buy tickets to win a vacation for example. The vacation isn't a "thing" (or a product), it's an experience (or a service). The vacation of course has a monetary value, and so do these virtual cards.
In the case of SOE's loot card deal, people are gambling for the chance to enhance their SWG experience with buffs or superior vehicles. They're gambling for the experience, which is made available to them in the form of a virtual card that they may or may not win.
SOE seems to have a habit of pushing the ethical envelope. They don't have to function this way. They could easily have implemented a TCG without the gamble for loot cards component. Maybe people would have liked it. From what I've seen, apart from breaking immersion, there's not much to dislike--except the loot card gamble.
They could also have easily introduced new content, like quest rewards or loot schematics offering in-game buffs and/or new vehicles. I'm quite sure people would have liked that. What's not to like about new schematics that are introduced as part of your subscription fee?
No, there were ways SOE could have done this that would have raised no legal/ethical questions, and that would have benefitted the game and its players. For some strange reason, SOE doesn't seem willing or able to deal with people this way. It's bizarre.
P.S. Good idea to get some people in the business of regulating games of chance to look into this. Nothing to lose there at all. Whatever you find out, I'm sure we'll all find it enlightening.
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play, yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
i think the difference is that you arent getting anything tangible or of value. I can go to a hotel in SWG and play lugjack and win credits - is that gambling? I pay a monthly subscription fee and have a chance to win virtual credits that cannot be redeemed for RL money or RL items
I think the obvious difference (if you're willing to see it) is that in lugjack, you're not paying real dollars to the Sony Online Store hoping to win something that adds to your real gameplay experience.
Surely you can see the difference made by gambling with real money?
I've noticed that despite all the debate, no one has answered some simple questions posed earlier. If this is risking real money on a chance outcome, why not just call it what it is? Why not let people know about the actual odds of winning? Why not inform them of the risks of playing? Why not ensure that the odds of winning are in fact verifiable? What harm would any of these steps do? It seems to me that they could only benefit all players, why the resistance?
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play ,yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
i think the difference is that you arent getting anything tangible or of value. I can go to a hotel in SWG and play lugjack and win credits - is that gambling? I pay a monthly subscription fee and have a chance to win virtual credits that cannot be redeemed for RL money or RL items
I think the obvious difference (if you're willing to see it) is that in lugjack, you're not paying real dollars to the Sony Online Store hoping to win something that adds to your real gameplay experience.
Surely you can see the difference made by gambling with real money?
I've noticed that despite all the debate, no one has answered some simple questions posed earlier. If this is risking real money on a chance outcome, why not just call it what it is? Why not let people know about the actual odds of winning? Why not inform them of the risks of playing? Why not ensure that the odds of winning are in fact verifiable? What harm would any of these steps do? It seems to me that they could only benefit all players, why the resistance? because gambling also comes with an age limit
i guess from what i've seen here some ppl don't have any problem with drug dealers or traffickers either as they don't force ppl to buy from them and it's up to the addicts if they want to spend their money
You do make a good point, like many others here, about SOE not forcing people to take part, but your all missing the point, what your all saying is like saying that the national lottery doesn't force people to play, casinos don't force people to play ,yet they're regulated because they're recognised as gambling, so why shouldn't this be regulated and actually advertised as gambling also? It requires real currency from the player in order to "BET" on a CHANCE of recieving something, this is what defines gambling no matter where or how it's employed.
i think the difference is that you arent getting anything tangible or of value. I can go to a hotel in SWG and play lugjack and win credits - is that gambling? I pay a monthly subscription fee and have a chance to win virtual credits that cannot be redeemed for RL money or RL items
I think the obvious difference (if you're willing to see it) is that in lugjack, you're not paying real dollars to the Sony Online Store hoping to win something that adds to your real gameplay experience.
Surely you can see the difference made by gambling with real money?
I've noticed that despite all the debate, no one has answered some simple questions posed earlier. If this is risking real money on a chance outcome, why not just call it what it is? Why not let people know about the actual odds of winning? Why not inform them of the risks of playing? Why not ensure that the odds of winning are in fact verifiable? What harm would any of these steps do? It seems to me that they could only benefit all players, why the resistance? because gambling also comes with an age limit
i guess from what i've seen here some ppl don't have any problem with drug dealers or traffickers either as they don't force ppl to buy from them and it's up to the addicts if they want to spend their money
Good point.
There is also a very clear danger that minors will be exploited by this unregulated nonsense.
S
For those that have tried to compare SOE's loot card lottery system to product promotionals, I've copied the link to Tim Horton's well-known "roll up the rim to win" campaign.
In SOE's game, you pay money for a chance to win loot cards that will enhance your SWG gameplay experience.
In contrast to this, please note the conditions of an actual product promotional:
http://www.rolluptherimtowin.com/en/prizes.php
The first thing you'll notice is that the exact odds of winning each prize are provided.
The second thing you'll notice if you click on the rules and redemption tab is that there is no purchase necessary to participate in the promotional. You can participate without giving Tim Horton's any money whatsoever.
This is a product promotional. SOE's game of giving money to them online for the chance of winning a loot card that will enhance your gameplay is not at all similar in the way it is run.
Failure to acknowledge this is very simply ignorance or a refusal to acknowledge reality.
For those that claim product promotionals have different regulations in their country, it would be to your credit to acknowledge that in many North American jurisdictions, what SOE is doing is not a product promotional; it is quite simply an unregulated game of chance.
Those got to be the biggest suckers ever to grace the earth to throw money away at a chance to get a loot card that you dont really own.....
I dont get point of this discussion. Some think it is gamibling and other dont. Does it matter what you think? No. If goverment( or whatever it is responsible for gambling) cannot shut them down so there is no point in this discussion because it wont change anything.
I never played this game. I see what they do simply as lottery. If you wanna spend money you can do so. It is your problem. I think everyone understand that they spent money for chance to get certain item (if they need certain of course).
Some say they want to raise awareness about this. But what can be raised when it is so obvious. You spent money (sort of gambling) and get random item.
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
well i'm sure you described it as gambling to them but when they look into it its just buying cards and getting some rare items from it, just like pokemon, magich the gathering etc etc. don't be to sad when they say your wrong. but we will see, they may just agree with you and shutdown all tcgs ruining fun games for everyone out there.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Another person who doesnt understand the difference between the VAST majority of card games out there and the TCG. These differences have been heavily documented in this thread. I think you'll find that if they werent interested, I wouldn't have had the replies I've had. They would have told me to sod off in the 1st place, which they most certainly have not.
S
Another person who doesnt understand the difference between the VAST majority of card games out there and the TCG. These differences have been heavily documented in this thread. I think you'll find that if they werent interested, I wouldn't have had the replies I've had. They would have told me to sod off in the 1st place, which they most certainly have not.
S
actually i have played all of them i know the difference, you just want to make it something it isn't. they all promote the same habits period, and people buy them like mad.
even if it is gambling the most they would do is put an age limit on who can buy the cards just like being able to go into a casino. it would ask for an age check at the registers when they are too be sold so no they won't ever go away and will still sell tons of cards since parents at that point will be responsible for buying them for their kids if they decide to do so.
They probably havn't told you to sod off because they have to look into it first, like i said we will see.
Edit: the same behaviors happen with minatures games, they make a rare model and people spend all their money trying to get them, its the same thing just like wow's tcg and its rare ingame cards, its all the same but its funny reading peoples posts trying to seperate them all.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
And here's a promotion for a recent Weet-Bix promotion here in NZ, http://www.weetbix.co.nz/Terms.aspx
Note that a) There are no odds of winning each prize and b) you get a free card set to start with (just like the SWG TCG) but if you want more you must get new cards from other Weet-Bix packs, "6.Entry to this Promotion is via the website www.weet-bix.co.nz. Enter your unique codes from Stat Attack II collectable cards. Collectable cards can be found in specially marked Weet-Bix 1kg and 750g packs, and specially marked Weet-Bix Fruity and Weet-Bix Crunch packs, at participating stores. Follow the website prompts to play Stat Attack II."
All you've really proved is that NZ needs a major overhaul when it comes to gambling laws. Further, you are buying Cereal (an actual physical product and you are getting actual physical cards).
There is no point in any debate with you. You are the definition of the word "Fanboi" when it comes to SWG and despite the fact that every aspect of your defense has been completely eviscerated, you continue to try and advocate the illegal activities of SOE. The fact that this could potentially exploit children should be enough for you to see sense, but not at the expense of your mindless SOE fanboism apparently.
The good news is that I have received replies from two seperate lottery commissions who are not happy about this and and are investigating further. I dont want to give out specific details at this point but I will as I receive the results of their investigations.
Apparently enabling illegal, underage gambling doesnt sit well with the powers that be in the US and Canada.
S
Why does NZ need a major overhaul of our gambling laws? There is no public outcry over competitions such as the Weet-Bix example I provided and they're not seen as gambling. As for getting physical cards, those cards are simply vouchers you use to redeem your card on the website which you can use to play against others within the online card game.
It amuses me that you keep reverting to your "you're a fanboi" defense. Mostly because you were calling such arguments as weak a few days ago when you were being called that by others here and yet here you are, doing the exact same thing you were critiscing them for.
You're right in a way though, this is a pointless argument. It seems unlikely you're going to understand that these kind of promotions are quite normal, quite legal and quite accepted in other countries around the world. Don't bother trying to convince me that my country and others like it are "worse off" for it because it's just as unlikely that I'll take any notice of that too
"Gambling is legal under US federal law, but the states are free to regulate or prohibit it. If state-run lotteries are included, almost every state can be said to allow some form of gambling. However, casino-style gambling is much less widespread.
Nevada is the only state where casino-style gambling is legal statewide, although the state and local governments both impose licensing and zoning restrictions. All other states that allow casino-style gambling restrict it to small geographic areas (e.g., Atlantic City, New Jersey or Tunica, Mississippi) or to Native American reservations (some of which are conveniently located in or near large cities). As sovereign nations, Native American tribes have used legal protection to open casinos, which has been a contentious political issue in California and other states. In some states, casinos are restricted to "riverboats", large multistory barges that more often than not are permanently moored in a body of water.
One notable exception to US policy is in the area of online gambling. The Federal Wire Act of 1961 outlawed interstate wagering on sports but did not address other forms of gambling and has been the subject of court challenges. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (part of the SAFE Port Act) did not specifically prohibit online gambling; instead, it outlawed financial transactions involving online gambling service providers. Offshore gambling providers reacted by shutting down their services for US customers."
good luck on your crusade, you will have to prove kids are buying these cards (didn't know small children had jobs) and if its parents buying them the cards then its the parents responsibility and if adults are blowing their cash on this then its their own dumbass fault. Should the government protect allt he stupid people from themselves nah i don't think so.
When these agencies talk to these companies high priced lawyers then they will pretty much just sweep it up under the rug and forget about it.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas