I should be able to choose what features I want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Originally posted by declaredemer
We, as the MMORPG consumer, have a choice: * Accept these payment schemes; or * Demand creativity in the areas of content, gameplay, and immersion.
This two things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, if you were an experienced gamer at all, you would know that a majority of this genres "innovation" comes from micro transaction enabled games, due to the fact that less risk is involved in initial development for the investors/publishers. Subscription based games have been stagnating for years because no one will invest in anything that requires the initial investment that subscription model MMO's require, and risk doing so on any features that are not part of the proven models. You make a vanilla DIKU or you do not, to much money is required for you to even risk any innovation and loose on returns (AKA: Subscriptions). Your entire, fake, motivation for being adverse to this is broken.
Originally posted by LondonMagus
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Stuff
How can spending $10 every two hours to get a 50% (not 5%) XP bonus possibly be considered a way of saving me money? Using that logic why don't people just pay for level up potions or even better just buy high level characters off the peg?
You guys need to either reorient this thread to be talking about a specific implementation, or not. I was not talking about a specific implementation. This is the problem here.
Free games with item shops are potential cheaper to play to play. Depending on your persional level of self restraint. As for the rest, see my other responces.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I should be able to choose what featuresI want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I should be able to choose what featuresI want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I should be able to choose what featuresI want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
In any case, the problem is that I don't want to buy my fluff from item stores. I want to make fluff items, sell fluff items for gold, and buy fluff items with gold.
In a game with microtransactions, players are no longer in complete control of bringing things into the game world. Rather, the item store starts to play a bigger role, and I would argue that it will play a bigger role than mere fluff, to the point that crafting and world-building is pointless.
I like "baking bread" in MMOs. I like buying baked bread from a player-baker. Item malls take my bread-making (or fluff making, or customizing ability) away so they can sell the bread I used to make from the item store so they can earn mo' money to hire more developers to make more radical changes I don't want.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I should be able to choose what featuresI want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
In any case, the problem is that I don't want to buy my fluff from item stores. I want to make fluff items, sell fluff items for gold, and buy fluff items with gold.
In a game with microtransactions, players are no longer in complete control of bringing things into the game world. Rather, the item store starts to play a bigger role, and I would argue that it will play a bigger role than mere fluff, to the point that crafting and world-building is pointless.
I like "baking bread" in MMOs. I like buying baked bread from a player-baker. Item malls take my bread-making (or fluff making, or customizing ability) away so they can sell the bread I used to make from the item store so they can earn mo' money to hire more developers to make more radical changes I don't want.
Again, depending on the game design, most are "on top of" not "in replacement of" (your fluff items).
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I should be able to choose what featuresI want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
In any case, the problem is that I don't want to buy my fluff from item stores. I want to make fluff items, sell fluff items for gold, and buy fluff items with gold.
In a game with microtransactions, players are no longer in complete control of bringing things into the game world. Rather, the item store starts to play a bigger role, and I would argue that it will play a bigger role than mere fluff, to the point that crafting and world-building is pointless.
I like "baking bread" in MMOs. I like buying baked bread from a player-baker. Item malls take my bread-making (or fluff making, or customizing ability) away so they can sell the bread I used to make from the item store so they can earn mo' money to hire more developers to make more radical changes I don't want.
Again, depending on the game design, most are "on top of" not "in replacement of" (your fluff items).
But who will want my same old white bread when they can buy the cake I can't bake from the item store?
Or, who is going to want the same rags I've been tailoring since launch, when they can get fancy and excusive unique duds from the publisher using RL cash?
See, when a publisher has an item mall, the impetus is to sell the products of the art and coding teams in the item store, rather than give it to players to craft.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What needs to happen is some sort of neo-MUD open source graphical coding type program that college kids and hobbyists can take advantage of and have it take off like Diku/Circle and all the tons of other code bases that there are.
That would definitely take the money grubbers down a hefty notch, as there is still things, actually quite a lot, in various MUDs that still is not done in any MMO to date. Some of the things possible in MUDs makes most MMOs look downright stupid.
Granted the problem is that the general text MUD era is slowing dying in terms of playerbases. Sure, there still are a few that have nice numbers, but it's nowhere near the glory days before UO and such when most MUDs, even the lesser known ones, could get 100 people on average days.
Whatever this program is, I'd definitely like to be totally free, just like most of the code bases are for text MUDs. Then new programs and code bases would be developed to suit each individual archetypal group of people's needs.
Until that happens, you're either at the mercy of money grubbing mega corps, or you don't play them, or perhaps go back to text MUDs.
---------------------------- "Hero of Time! Face me!"
Comments
[quote]
Originally posted by Beatnik59
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Originally posted by declaredemer
This two things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, if you were an experienced gamer at all, you would know that a majority of this genres "innovation" comes from micro transaction enabled games, due to the fact that less risk is involved in initial development for the investors/publishers.
Subscription based games have been stagnating for years because no one will invest in anything that requires the initial investment that subscription model MMO's require, and risk doing so on any features that are not part of the proven models. You make a vanilla DIKU or you do not, to much money is required for you to even risk any innovation and loose on returns (AKA: Subscriptions).
Your entire, fake, motivation for being adverse to this is broken.
Originally posted by LondonMagus
You guys need to either reorient this thread to be talking about a specific implementation, or not. I was not talking about a specific implementation.
This is the problem here.
Free games with item shops are potential cheaper to play to play. Depending on your persional level of self restraint.
As for the rest, see my other responces.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I should be able to choose what features I want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I should be able to choose what features I want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
Play some, and then come back.
Here is a good one that is 100% what i am talking about. And it has innovation, imagine that.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I should be able to choose what features I want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
Play some, and then come back.
Here is a good one that is 100% what i am talking about. And it has innovation, imagine that.
It looks neat. I may just try that one...
In any case, the problem is that I don't want to buy my fluff from item stores. I want to make fluff items, sell fluff items for gold, and buy fluff items with gold.
In a game with microtransactions, players are no longer in complete control of bringing things into the game world. Rather, the item store starts to play a bigger role, and I would argue that it will play a bigger role than mere fluff, to the point that crafting and world-building is pointless.
I like "baking bread" in MMOs. I like buying baked bread from a player-baker. Item malls take my bread-making (or fluff making, or customizing ability) away so they can sell the bread I used to make from the item store so they can earn mo' money to hire more developers to make more radical changes I don't want.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I should be able to choose what features I want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
Play some, and then come back.
Here is a good one that is 100% what i am talking about. And it has innovation, imagine that.
It looks neat. I may just try that one...
In any case, the problem is that I don't want to buy my fluff from item stores. I want to make fluff items, sell fluff items for gold, and buy fluff items with gold.
In a game with microtransactions, players are no longer in complete control of bringing things into the game world. Rather, the item store starts to play a bigger role, and I would argue that it will play a bigger role than mere fluff, to the point that crafting and world-building is pointless.
I like "baking bread" in MMOs. I like buying baked bread from a player-baker. Item malls take my bread-making (or fluff making, or customizing ability) away so they can sell the bread I used to make from the item store so they can earn mo' money to hire more developers to make more radical changes I don't want.
Again, depending on the game design, most are "on top of" not "in replacement of" (your fluff items).
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I should be able to choose what features I want, and not the features they force me to accept.
You just described the basis for all micro transaction models.
Items aren't features. They are simply things that work into the features already present. Besides, where's the choice for someone who doesn't want microtransactions in the non-microtransaction game they bought last year? "Take it or leave it?" Why can't we take what we like (the game), but leave what we don't like (the game operating with an item mall)? The answer is just as I said in my post above; the developers are going to force the item mall whether or not players wants the item mall in the game.
But the funny thing about microtransactions is that they might force the developers to use their prerogative to change the game more sparingly. That's because if you nerf or modify the context in which a bought item operates within, you are now modifying something that is "owned" in a more concrete sense than merely the software.
None of this applys, we are not talking about items with stats, only fluff cosmetic items, if you are referring to the SOE article.
Other than that, it is 100% correct what i said, because those games are designed that way, FEATURES and all. Typically, entire features are disabled to you on the free level, you pay to open them up, such things as items, zones, even whole features like housing or the like.
Play some, and then come back.
Here is a good one that is 100% what i am talking about. And it has innovation, imagine that.
It looks neat. I may just try that one...
In any case, the problem is that I don't want to buy my fluff from item stores. I want to make fluff items, sell fluff items for gold, and buy fluff items with gold.
In a game with microtransactions, players are no longer in complete control of bringing things into the game world. Rather, the item store starts to play a bigger role, and I would argue that it will play a bigger role than mere fluff, to the point that crafting and world-building is pointless.
I like "baking bread" in MMOs. I like buying baked bread from a player-baker. Item malls take my bread-making (or fluff making, or customizing ability) away so they can sell the bread I used to make from the item store so they can earn mo' money to hire more developers to make more radical changes I don't want.
Again, depending on the game design, most are "on top of" not "in replacement of" (your fluff items).
But who will want my same old white bread when they can buy the cake I can't bake from the item store?
Or, who is going to want the same rags I've been tailoring since launch, when they can get fancy and excusive unique duds from the publisher using RL cash?
See, when a publisher has an item mall, the impetus is to sell the products of the art and coding teams in the item store, rather than give it to players to craft.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What needs to happen is some sort of neo-MUD open source graphical coding type program that college kids and hobbyists can take advantage of and have it take off like Diku/Circle and all the tons of other code bases that there are.
That would definitely take the money grubbers down a hefty notch, as there is still things, actually quite a lot, in various MUDs that still is not done in any MMO to date. Some of the things possible in MUDs makes most MMOs look downright stupid.
Granted the problem is that the general text MUD era is slowing dying in terms of playerbases. Sure, there still are a few that have nice numbers, but it's nowhere near the glory days before UO and such when most MUDs, even the lesser known ones, could get 100 people on average days.
Whatever this program is, I'd definitely like to be totally free, just like most of the code bases are for text MUDs. Then new programs and code bases would be developed to suit each individual archetypal group of people's needs.
Until that happens, you're either at the mercy of money grubbing mega corps, or you don't play them, or perhaps go back to text MUDs.
----------------------------
"Hero of Time! Face me!"