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The Future of this Industry is Creatively Ugly: Innovation in Payment Systems and Not Content/Gamep
declaredemer
Member Posts: 2,698
In my gaming infancy, I traversed dangerous swamplands with no compass, no map, and only the clothes on my back with a latern that barely worked. Dangers lurked in the shadows, and you had to watch where you ran for fear you would be slain by some creature.
Today, SOE announced a method whereby players can purchase items, and EA's future Star Wars title will have some microtransactional payment scheme.
It is no longer about art. It is about money.
Comments
I completely agree with the title of your thread!!!!
We are probably on the cusp of entering a new era in this industry. It is not very pro-gamer. It is not very pro creative-developer. Its character, and orientation, is based on one, but only one, question: how do we get more money out of these consumers(we know these "MMORPG consumers" as "MMORPG gamers")? Pay-as-you-play scheme. Microtransactional. In-game items from out-of-game money.
The "creative energies" have been moving, but now sharply turning a corner, away from content, gameplay, and world immersion and toward a dollar here, a dollar there, and a dollar everywhere.
It is responsible for content that is addicting but creatively shallow, gameplay that is linear, and worlds that are boring/uninspiring.
Oh, what I would do to talk to the scumbag whores that develop the games today and the assholes who come up with these money schemes face to face.
Big companies suck? OMG no wai! Stop the press!1
Seriously, there's always alternatives, it's not like they're twisting your arm, is it?.
Me, I'll be more than amazed if one these big developers manages one day to make a game that's actually worth a shit.
The energy that makes the sun shine, or the energy that influences the development of MMORPGs, is the excitement of creation. The fuel in the fire is the real pleasure of creation. The making of art. Creating a world or parts of a world, themes, challenges that thousands if not millions will enjoy.
We as the gaming community have a choice:
Some of us know where we stand on this issue.
While your title point is incorrect, your assertion that it's all about money isn't. It is all about the money, everything is all about the money. Games are a business, hell, life is a business! The success of any financial model in whatever industry is dependent on the success of the product. We don't know the future, we can only predict, and while the direction of the industry appears to be going in a particular direction, it may not be all bad. Microtransaction aren't an innovation they have been around for ages, and are very effective in certain games.
The bottom line is that people won't pay for a crap game, be it subscription or transaction. With the events of these last years with the failure of Tabula, PotBS, Conan, and others, developers and publishers out there are under no illusions that half finished games won't last long. They must know that gamers won't pay for a poor quality game. Nobody wants to throw millions of pounds/dollars down the drain on a game that won't sell. The main issue surrounding gaming, and game quality for the future is ensuring that game developers and their publishers understand OUR standards are higher than their own. That their idea of a polished and finished game isn't necessarily ours. Consult us instead of insult us and the game has a much higher chance of success. Look at Eve for example and their council of players. Representatives of the gamers get to talk to the developers and (maybe) influence, at least discuss the way the game evolves.
Games are getting easier there is no doubt, but I think it more to do with market spread and accessibility than laziness. The more people that can play, the more people that can pay.
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The energy that makes the sun shine, or the energy that influences the development of MMORPGs, is the excitement of creation. The fuel in the fire is the real pleasure of creation. The making of art. Creating a world or parts of a world, themes, challenges that thousands if not millions will enjoy.
We as the gaming community have a choice:
Some of us know where we stand on this issue.
As much as I agree that's how things SHOULD be, I know that in this world they are not.
The larger the company, the less they are concerned about its playerbase and more concerned about their quarterly reports, and shareholders. Can we blame them? Yes, but then we'd be hypocrites as we would probably do the same in their shoes. Those who want a business and not a dream.
The real problem is us, the players. Maybe not ALL of us, but if there weren't ppl willing to pay real money for stuff then the RMT's and micro-transactions would probably not be here. They are.
It's a simple "Supply and Demand" schematic that has supported the economy since it began. Look at sports, what used to be a passion driven endeavor is now a powerhouse of income. Yes, some still play for the fun, but the money behind it isn't from the players, and those with the money control the sport.
It's sad, yes, but just because it is there, does mean you have to succumb to using them. If the introduction of these new pay-for-stuff really change the game experience, then maybe it is time to leave the genre.
I believe however, they will not, and it is just some who feel that it is unfair to give advantage to those who do not work for it. Such is life. The debate cannot be won here, it will be decided online, and the future will be what it'll be. Quit the game, don't quit...we'll see if who wins out in the end. Companies will always do what they think will bring them more money, if enough gamers buy and increase their profit, more often than not it'll be done.
(1) "Consult us" gamers.
Many of us have the heart and stomach of "immersion" gamers but keep getting a parade of titles with content, gameplay, and worlds that are intellectually, and creatively, the opposite of what we want, expect, desire, and sometimes demand.
Casual players are "immersion" gamers. Immersion gamers are casual players.
It is appreciating an MMORPG as a work of art, not merely a game. Game? I got plenty of them.
(2) Games are Getting Easier.
I always feel compelled to distinguish between accessibility and easibility.
Who is responsible? As more people enter the MMORPG market, will there be no market, then, for a more sophisticated and discerning gamer? It is a neglected group of the gaming market.
The problem is really that the RMT model itself makes production of games that are symmetric by design next to impossible. People with the fatter wallets will win, much like they win even in non-RMT games with having crafting, grinding, and muling alt accounts. The only real solution is to make a framework for which there can be more developers with different goals in mind. A sorta "Diku 2.0" sans non-profit only clause to the license (probably a variation of MIT or BSD licenses) that people can actually code and people can actually play too. Not a Secondlife with an aborted asset system (Which they are abandoning as we speak for http instead) and equally unwieldy in-game object creator (and crappy VM for their scripting language). But something that can compete, that's open, but not RMS "Gimme teh codez!" hogging/whining, and something that can be used by anyone with no arbitrary license fees.
I'm not sure if it would eliminate the problem of RMT, but it would sure stop MMO developers in their tracks of claiming innovation when others were either doing the same or even more for free (as a hobby or whatever).
Probably what will have to happen is another round of mmo failures to prove that gamers will not tolerate the new microtransaction model. It's one thing in a free to play game. It's justifiable even. But when you are paying a monthly fee...it is just wrong.
I already stoped buying games just based soley on hype and i never buy a game on future potential. I dont mind hte subscription fee, though i will not play any mmo that wants to dabble with 2 or 3 payment systems.
Like reqieum that has a sub, and a item mall, i wouldnt play a game that has a sub and microtransactions. Also if the game has no cantent or gameplay features at launch that are worth playing i wont buy it. Far too many of these games come out with a demand and like relgion offer nothing tangeble but a distant promise of a great game, and people just keep paying.
IF MMO gamers werent such pathetic morons who where availible in droves the genre wouldnt have come down to this. Look at dreamcast and sega saturn, those console came out making promises it couldnt deliver and it died out because of it, but unlike consoles were people just wouldnt buy shitty hardware, just like drivers wouldnt buy unfinished cars, but when it comes to MMOs there are WAY TO MANY people willing to buy unfinished games on the premise that it will be fixed later.
List all the games that have come out this year, and then name the game that is still on top, and name the ones that are failing or have just completely shut down. MMOs are being made with quantity in mind and not quality, i remember the original idea for an MMO was to get a player to take part in a world and play the game for years, now it seems, they are just meant to be played for 2 or 3 months while the devolopers pump out another failed project.
I already moved back to single player RPGs, i have no faith in future MMOs, even great companies like Bioware have me doubting they can do it on a world scale, despite mass effect and KOTOR.
We arent going to see any change in this industry unless people stop buying unfinished games, and we all know which games were/are unfinished and which arent, if any game has promised several features for 3 or 4 years when they announced their title, and then a month before launch they announce they are cutting a number of them, dont come back with a defensive, ridiculous repsonse like "Well, they are showing great inititive releasing the game on time, they can always add in what they removed later." Because it basically translates into, you are going to have to buy an unfinished product, and then pay to beta test the rest of the content as it comes.
It is only a matter of time before companiesstart charging a premium for the closed beta, file planet is already pushing that along.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I guess it's a good thing there's no real shame in playing an 'old' MMO so long as it's still actively supported by its developers.
As long as new MMOs continue to suck balls I'll keep playing Eve.
Before: creators loved games and made money.
Now: creators love money and make games.
"The Future of this Industry is Creatively Ugly: Innovation in Payment Systems and Not Content/Gameplay "
You are compleatly wrong, there is tons of invoation out there, and more comming all the time. However, most players do not pay atention unless ts one of the big 5 devlopment houses. You also seem to be a victom of this trend.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
(1) "Consult us" gamers.
Many of us have the heart and stomach of "immersion" gamers but keep getting a parade of titles with content, gameplay, and worlds that are intellectually, and creatively, the opposite of what we want, expect, desire, and sometimes demand.
Casual players are "immersion" gamers. Immersion gamers are casual players.
It is appreciating an MMORPG as a work of art, not merely a game. Game? I got plenty of them.
Not wanting to pick holes here but how does this relate to being consulted about game development/evolution?
(2) Games are Getting Easier.
I always feel compelled to distinguish between accessibility and easibility.
Although there is no such word as easibility I get what you're saying. Both are elements of accessibilty that mean different things to different people. I meant it in the context that if a game is designed to be accessible by most players, it is inevitably 'dumbed down' to accommodate the masses. I too preferred the times when you had to find your own way in the world, and actually had to work at something to achieve a goal. The joy is short lived indeed when things are handed to me on a plate. But we seem to live in an instant gratification society that needs quick fixes to survive. As good as WoW is I'm not sure how successful it would be if it was harder...
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This pretty much sums it all up! Totally agree with ya!
MMOs have become an easy money making way for devs. Toss something out, hype it up, n avid players will give up their cash for it. But no longer are games made like the old UO, EQ, n AC models. Those games were made that you could play for years n still enjoy them. Todays games are made like the single player games, buy em get a few months out of em then move onto the next game. Only difference single player they only get one payment...with a MMO, they get a single payment, then from many ,an extra month or two of subscription.
If EQ and EQ2 players really had an issue with the RMT model, they wouldn't be spending money hand over fist in TCG transactions.
This wasn't something that SOE just pulled out of a hat. Once they introduced their trading card games, complete with in-game loot cards, and both EQ and EQ2 players started buying and downloading decks and booster packs, SOE saw dollar signs. They've simply expanded the model.
If you want to know who to blame for this happening to EQ and EQ2, look no further than the dedicated LoN players, and the people who were desperate to try and get whatever bit of uber loot was being promoted that month in booster cards. They not only showed Sony that players paying a monthly fee would tolerate and approve of paying additional real money for items, but the money they were bringing in to Sony via their purchases was clearly enough that an expanded RMT model made business sense.
I'm going to have to correct you here. I've been an EQ player since years and witnessed LoN and now Station Cash.
Many players did have an issue with LoN. I can link you thousands of posts where players objected LoN. Not once did I think LoN was a good idea and many players alike felt exactly like I did.
Station Cash is just too much for most players. Somehow LoN being RMT disguised as a card game could be ignored.
Now straight out selling XP % and items for cash is the reason to end the EQ subscription for many players, including myself. My account has been cancelled since yesterday and many guildies and in-game friends did the same thing.
We were never in favor of LoN and we definately have an issue with RMT. The forum outcry on both the EQ and EQ2 boards alone is evidence of that.
Yeah have to admit that was pretty brilliant on SOE's part. A lot of those SWG players are probably spending 2x-3x more per month on the game now due to those loot cards. Doesn't WoW have those loot cards in their trading card game too?
You're only partially correct. While I have no bone to pick with pay for items that don't affect gameplay (I don't care if you have a little non-combat bunny following you, for example), I refuse to play something where people can crack open their wallet for win buttons. That doesn't mean that you're good, just that you spent more to win.
However, on the other side of the coin, I submit The Chronicles of Spellborn for gameplay innovation. The targeting system is a first for MMOs, to my knowledge, and the spellbar is very different from anything else out there I've seen. The traditional MMO Holy Trinity (tank, healer, dps) is on mighty wobbly legs as well, due to the way they classes work out and the lack of a pure healer class (everybody heals/buffs/debuffs to some degree, and agro/mob ai is more advanced than a traditional tank/spank). Lack of stats on ANY of the gear is significantly different (ok ok, the sigil system, but the gear itself has no stats, slot your sigils into any gear pieces you like the look of).
The industry isn't dead, it's just that people keep forking over the cash for yet another clone of a previous game.
I'm going to have to correct you here. I've been an EQ player since years and witnessed LoN and now Station Cash.
Many players did have an issue with LoN. I can link you thousands of posts where players objected LoN. Not once did I think LoN was a good idea and many players alike felt exactly like I did.
Station Cash is just too much for most players. Somehow LoN being RMT disguised as a card game could be ignored.
Now straight out selling XP % and items for cash is the reason to end the EQ subscription for many players, including myself. My account has been cancelled since yesterday and many guildies and in-game friends did the same thing.
We were never in favor of LoN and we definately have an issue with RMT. The forum outcry on both the EQ and EQ2 boards alone is evidence of that.
Oh, I'm sure that some players who are now having issues with StationCash had issues with LoN. However, they were clearly in the minority if SOE has expanded their RMT model to include StationCash.
There is fundamentally no difference between covering up RMT with a card game and the StationCash program. In both cases you're spending real money for in-game items. They just made it more obvious, and it wouldn't have happened if the money wasn't there.
I'm pretty sure they were and are the majority. There was a poll a while back, which isn't allowed on the official EQ forums fyi, and over 90% was against LoN.
If you were a current EQ player or had been for the last couple of years you would know this.
LoN is succesfull because some people did spend an awfull lot of money on it and it was making a profit. But understand that you don't need to even play EQ to play LoN. I can assure you that if you did get a poll through again you would see the exact same result, which is the majority of EQplayers being completely opposed to RMT.
A relative small amount of the player base with a lot of cash does not equal the majority being in favor of this.
If you believe otherwise, I invite you to come look on the EQ forums and look at the top most thread with over 200 responses which are undeniably overly against Station Cash and RMT.
Agreed with pretty much every single word. o7
I'm pretty sure they were and are the majority. There was a poll a while back, which isn't allowed on the official EQ forums fyi, and over 90% was against LoN.
If you were a current EQ player or had been for the last couple of years you would know this.
LoN is succesfull because some people did spend an awfull lot of money on it and it was making a profit. But understand that you don't need to even play EQ to play LoN. I can assure you that if you did get a poll through again you would see the exact same result, which is the majority of EQplayers being completely opposed to RMT.
If you believe otherwise, I invite you to come look on the EQ forums and look at the top most thread with over 200 responces which are undeniably overly against Station Cash and RMT.
I played EQ from launch to Ykesha and check in on the forums from time to time.
I've no doubt that things like LoN, RMT, and StationCash are controversial over there. I've seen the most recent threads, and know that things are pretty heated. Still, the complaints being raised on the boards will fall on deaf ears when compared to the money being made.
SOE is making money from active EQ and EQ2 subscribers via Legends of Norrath, and it was clearly enough money to expand the RMT model. That's all that really matters in the end. If the money wasn't there before, StationCash wouldn't exist now. Period.
Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg
Hey everyone, sorry for not chiming in right with this but I wanted to confirm the accuracy of what I was going to say before posting it.
This unfortunately was a big misunderstanding and I want to be clear: we have made no official statements about the business model for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.
When we do have information as to business model for The Old Republic, we will definitely share it with all of you and you’ll find that information here on the official website.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=9509
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.