LOL. SOE screwing their customers? Id say their customers are screwing themselves. You people still giving them your money even though you are "unhappy" about it are the biggest bunch of morons. YOU are the ones allowing this to continue. You think they could do this without actually making anything? Its YOU PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM WHO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. You are fueled by your own sad addiction that you can't even do whats right for yourselvs and stop giving them money. Good luck!
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
sometimes it's not about 'addiction' 90% of the game is something my wife and i can agree on. we play together. she heals my sorry butt when she thinks i deserve it, and it's a good way for us to spend time together. even if we only play 2 hrs a month it's cheaper than us going to a movie night for that month.....
and i'm also on the list of ... played EQ, EQII, WOW, LOTRO, Vanguard, CoH, dot dot dot, etc etc etc. EQII is (except for this one point that i have a problem with (at the moment)) the best game for what i'm looking for...... when the 'next generation comes out' with all their Microtransactions in place i'll be ready for it and accepting it going in. not 'blindsided by it right after an expansion...... but again, that's just my perspective.....
Some are duoers, but if like most you're a guildie, you're going to stay regardless. EQ2 is hard to leave because of that social pull. When I said I was leaving, guildies were coming out of the woodwork saying, "I can help you level". I didn't need help leveling, I needed RMT out of the game.
Most will find it hard to leave. Knew a guy who kept deleting his level 70 characters, and screamed he'll delete the one folks were helping him level up if someone pushed him to level faster. But despite the frustrations he had (and the 101 reasons to delete those high level characters), he'll stay even though unemployed. It becomes a life of it's own.
Either way, it's an addiction. One that is very hard to break if folks aren't extremely independent types (I haven't found a game I played longer than 90 days -- after 90 days it's time to leave, as the content becomes so boring I could sleep at the keyboard).
Again like some others, you speak as if you know me. You do not know me in the slightest. Addicted? Right. Mmos are my hobby not my life.
Online folks don't need to know if you wipe your butt with your right or left hand to know your thoughts -- your posting history tells enough. That's the face folks see, Eccoton. That's the face folks will judge you on. Not your RL; nor what you're done in EQ2; nor what you've done at 1001 other places online and off.
As much as you see those who quit EQ2 as haters, I see you as someone who rather stay in a game and make others who disagree with EQ2's direction or have left the game miserable. You like to paint EQ2 so rosey, and pooh-pooh or ignore it's flaws, even.
Do you know about the Fighter 2.0 changes coming up? Something so important that is in the works that will turn classes upside down, and not a peep to a new inquiring player? It's that type of blinders that can make yet another "hater" out of EQ2 when they took the copy and paste salesman advice at stock value, only to find in 2 months or so their uber decked out fighter/healer/wizzy is end-game trash.
If you truly love the game, you must acknowledge the good and the bad, and tell folks the truth -- not just what you want them to read.
You obviuosly do not know my post history at all. Never once have I called or suggested that someone who leaves a SOE game is a hater. Find the post where I have said that, find one. I have used the word "Hater" to describe a type of individual that hates SOE so much that they seem to hate anything that they do. I have never used it to put anyone down. I believe even those that have wrestled with me on these forums and disagree with me would say that is untrue statement about my posts. Again you do not know my post history at all. I have never painted EQ2 all rosey or over looked it's flaws. Are these the only posts you have read of mine? This thread was about SOE scaming its players with the item mall in eq/eq2. I presented my argument for item malls never insulting or making assumptions about any. However look at how much I have had to defend myself. Seems to me you are the one that can not accept someone who likes eq2 and they have some sort of flaw if they do, like an "addiction".
Some are duoers, but if like most you're a guildie, you're going to stay regardless. EQ2 is hard to leave because of that social pull. When I said I was leaving, guildies were coming out of the woodwork saying, "I can help you level". I didn't need help leveling, I needed RMT out of the game. Most will find it hard to leave. Knew a guy who kept deleting his level 70 characters, and screamed he'll delete the one folks were helping him level up if someone pushed him to level faster. But despite the frustrations he had (and the 101 reasons to delete those high level characters), he'll stay even though unemployed. It becomes a life of it's own. Either way, it's an addiction. One that is very hard to break if folks aren't extremely independent types (I haven't found a game I played longer than 90 days -- after 90 days it's time to leave, as the content becomes so boring I could sleep at the keyboard).
my guild is 27 members in 5 accounts, me, my wife, two room-mates and a friend from out of town.
where-ever my wife and i go, our guild will follow......
so guild isn't keeping us here... although the social aspect cannot be disputed hehe
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
some of us aren't upset about it being RMT. I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately. i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME..... what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....
but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.
*sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.
The big mistake that Smedtard makes is he looks at the RMT shops for the asian grinders and gets dollar signs on the brain.
In many parts of Asia, people have hot rice porriage and steamed buns for breakfast.
In the US/Europe, people have eggs/toast and pancakes with coffee/tea.
In Asia, the gamers like F2P with item shops.
In NA/Europe, the gamers like flat monthly subs.
It is a question of taste.
And there is no way you could push sales rice gruel for breakfast and expect people in the US/Europe to like it. No matter the claims that "the majority of breakfast eaters world wide like rice gruel, and, the largest segment of growth in the breakfast market is in rice gruel, and we see the future of breakfast in rice gruel." None of that matters a damn if the paying customer hates rice gruel.
And to stick with the food metaphor a bit longer, SOE is charging for both entrance to the breakfast buffet and charging for items that should be included as part of it. And the rice gruel.
And telling people that they should shut up and like rice gruel ain't gonna make your customers happy, they will simply go someplace else for pancakes.
I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.
I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.
It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.
It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.
So you are REQUIRED to use their Stationcash option? Word to the wise, they are not making you do anything and if you don't like it quit being a little nancy and cancel your sub leave the rest of the world to their own. Not to mention this has been talked to death for the last few days use the search function and vent in on of the already exhisting threads.
I would have canceled my subs last month BEFORE I would have paid for the expansion! 80 euros total!!
That's what is the issue here!
I dont give a crap about this system. They said it would NEVER come into EverQuest 2.
More even so, that they DELIBERATELY waited till couple weeks after the TSO expansion and kept it all secret to MAXIMISE expansion sales! As they knew lot of people would have canceled and NOT buy the expansion if they announced this lets say end of october / early november.
I don't know what SCAM means in your dictionary. But in mine this is a SCAM. Pure and simple!
And when you look into their feedback thread on the official forums, then you will see that a lot of people feel the exact same about this.
Cheers
dude, you got too much time in your hands to be angry at something like this...
Originally posted by Moirae *sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.
I guess since corporate presidents in the hotel industry lie all the time to their customers it is just fine and dandy that it happens in MMOs.
This is a perfect example of why SOE can get away with what they do for so long.
some of us aren't upset about it being RMT. I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately. i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME..... what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....
but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.
*sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.
so far you've said i'm wrong a number of ways, my questions still stand....
how is SOE saying they will not launch RMT on non-Station Exchange servers, and then doing just that, not wrong?
how is it not out and out misrepresentation of their intentions?
how is implementing it days after a new expansion not inappropriate?
I've worked as a wedding dj for going on 20 years, and if i treated people like that i'd be out of business, but that's just because i'm a little guy i guess....
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
I think what it really boils down too is the simple fact that people don't like being lied too, and this is exactly what John Smedley has done...and frankly has been doing for quite some time.
I think that quite a few people here either don't recall or was not involved in SWG pre-NGE, i don't think they can really understand that when NGE was released entire guilds left, thousands upon thousands of players quit...or the amount of players who bought Trials of Obi-Wan only to send it back to SoE demanding a refund on a obviously incomplete expansion....due to Mr. Smedley's and staffs ineptitude and disconnection with the gaming public,
Is RMT a big thing? well to be honest i can see how it can give a pssible advantage on PvP servers, yes...an advantage given to a player simply because he/she is willing to shell out more money for a 'x' weapon or 'y' armor is a way to make others shell out the same amount not just to gain a similar advantage but just to be on-par.....why bother killing that NM for that unique drop when you can give SoE an extra 10 bucks?
However, the real point is Mr. Smedley flat-out said that RMT wouldn't be on non player-exchange servers...once again and very true to form he lied and did whatever he wanted, player-base be damned.
When this doesn't work either and EQ2 players start leaving.....hopefully SoE will get the message and fire Mr. Smedley.
Edit: here is a very old (and very long) article from a former EQ/SWG gamer talking about SoE tactics and Mr. Smedley.
If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.
In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style.
I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game.
The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument. EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills.
Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it. The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers).
So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.
I think that perhaps, if both sides would stop sniping at one another and simply admit that because the way that they approach the game is fundamentally different much of the animosity and name-calling would cease.
I am one of the biggest EQ2 boosters around. I love the game. I have also been strident in my criticism over the years when they do bone-headed things. No one here has accused me of being in Sony's pocket, and aside from the noise generated by one poster in particular, no one has accused me of being a "hater".
Why? Because I attempt to address my comments from the notion that both sides are correct in this. They are. As I stated in past posts, people will draw their own "line in the sand" over this issue, and belittling someone who has reached and refuses to follow across that line, or the one who happily steps over it, is futile and does nothing but generate hard feelings. The end result is that some people reading here will certainly be turned away from the game due to the rancor exhibited.
Name calling and personal attacks help no one, and simply serve to make the poster look foolish.
I hope that some of you will try to see the other side and stop poking one another over an issue that, in the end, is simply a personal choice.
So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.
I think that perhaps, if both sides would stop sniping at one another and simply admit that because the way that they approach the game is fundamentally different much of the animosity and name-calling would cease.
I am one of the biggest EQ2 boosters around. I love the game. I have also been strident in my criticism over the years when they do bone-headed things. No one here has accused me of being in Sony's pocket, and aside from the noise generated by one poster in particular, no one has accused me of being a "hater".
Why? Because I attempt to address my comments from the notion that both sides are correct in this. They are. As I stated in past posts, people will draw their own "line in the sand" over this issue, and belittling someone who has reached and refuses to follow across that line, or the one who happily steps over it, is futile and does nothing but generate hard feelings. The end result is that some people reading here will certainly be turned away from the game due to the rancor exhibited.
Name calling and personal attacks help no one, and simply serve to make the poster look foolish.
I hope that some of you will try to see the other side and stop poking one another over an issue that, in the end, is simply a personal choice.
Good luck with that.
That was the point of the post you got this quote from. The whole post was to point out we approach the game from different points of view. Neither one better then the other, just different. I was not sniping at anyone. If you were using that paragraph to suggest I was sniping you are using it totally out of context of the entire post. I have a bigger problem with that then being called addicted or complacent. Do not take a part of a long post out of context to say I am sniping. Nothing in my post is doing that. It is supporting your idea totally.
We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it.
If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me. In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style. I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game. The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument. EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills. Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it. The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers).
Hear Ye Hear Ye consumers of EQ2 a new and wonderous cap can be purchased at the magic Item Mall ... Be the very 1st to own your very own Smed Da Liar Cap this beatifully tailored Jughead Cap will be the envy of all your friends.. So hurry errrrr, i mean reallyy hurry ,ohh dam nevermind everyone has 1 now...
If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me. In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style. I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game. The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument. EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills. Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it. The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers).
Hear Ye Hear Ye consumers of EQ2 a new and wonderous cap can be purchased at the magic Item Mall ... Be the very 1st to own your very own Smed Da Liar Cap this beatifully tailored Jughead Cap will be the envy of all your friends.. So hurry errrrr, i mean reallyy hurry ,ohh dam nevermind everyone has 1 now...
I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:
The items are not powerful
microtransactions are not RMT
Closed systems are not RMT
There are so many items it doesn't affect the game
It is no big deal
SOE needs the money to survive
Games are going to be doing it in the future anyhow
Every game is doing it already
Some have even suggested it is the players fault
Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game. You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free. Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it. That is fact.
No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money. We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store. This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items.
The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players. They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen. This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen. So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this. Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.
When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line? I am very curious what your answer might be to that.
On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all. I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous. IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general. Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened. Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear.
While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor.
I dont think you have taken things into consideration...
1. If Sony can sell more goods, they will make more goods (They will ramp up production to meet the demand).
2. SOE is now part of the gaming division (think PS3). This means that despite the fact that they have always been turning a profit, when the gamig division has been losing money left and right.... thier jobs are now on the line. So, if they can make thier games into cash cows, the PS3 can continue to lose money, and no one will get fired.
3. Business' go where the money is. So, if they can make more money, other companies will follow suite. You will see more competition, and then you will have alternatives.
I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.
It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.
It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.
Not again. What are you people broken records that you just repeat the same thing over and over and over? Stop whining until it actually happens instead of constantly freaking out. If you don't like it, then leave the goddamned game instead of annoying the crap out of the rest of us for no goddamned reason. Its called "maturity". We may have cared originally, we may have even sympathized, but the whining has gotten unreasonable and just plain annoying.
I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.
It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.
It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.
Not again. What are you people broken records that you just repeat the same thing over and over and over? Stop whining until it actually happens instead of constantly freaking out. If you don't like it, then leave the goddamned game instead of annoying the crap out of the rest of us for no goddamned reason. Its called "maturity". We may have cared originally, we may have even sympathized, but the whining has gotten unreasonable and just plain annoying.
So ecco, where is the line drawn for you then? I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:
The items are not powerful microtransactions are not RMT Closed systems are not RMT There are so many items it doesn't affect the game It is no big deal SOE needs the money to survive Games are going to be doing it in the future anyhow Every game is doing it already Some have even suggested it is the players fault
Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game. You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free. Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it. That is fact. No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money. We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store. This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items.
The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players. They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen. This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen. So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this. Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.
When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line? I am very curious what your answer might be to that.
On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all. I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous. IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general. Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened. Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear. While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor.
No excuses here. I don't care about it. Armor and weapons? Are you sure they won't be something similar to the faction armor and weapons we already have, just cooler looking? If you draw the line here, then quit and get on with your life.
So Smedley "lied?" To lie implies that he knew all along that they were going to implement a cash shop, but for all we know circumstances within the company may have made his past statement irrelevant. It isn't personal, folks, happens all the time (intended lies or not) in business. Doesn't make it ok, but don't act so surprised given that the government (of any country) sets the trend.
I hear a lot of "the sky is falling" posts about this that it is quite honestly pathetic. Quit already, and by this I mean really quit, not threaten to do so and be back in a week to complain about something else. Not saying anyone here does that, they are abundant on the official forums. Until game breaking items are added to the cash shop, its nothing to waste time griping over for me, personally.
So ecco, where is the line drawn for you then? I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:
The items are not powerful microtransactions are not RMT Closed systems are not RMT There are so many items it doesn't affect the game It is no big deal SOE needs the money to survive Games are going to be doing it in the future anyhow Every game is doing it already Some have even suggested it is the players fault
Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game. You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free. Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it. That is fact. No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money. We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store. This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items.
The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players. They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen. This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen. So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this. Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.
When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line? I am very curious what your answer might be to that.
On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all. I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous. IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general. Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened. Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear. While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor.
Now that is a good question and a hard one to answer for others to understand but easy for me to understand. Like I said I view mmos as entertainement and for me it is also about the persistent world experience I am having. That not only includes gameplay but graphics, art direction, sound design, game performance, reliability, unique story, and more. That is what I come for and pay for. I also do not play pvp. Those to things are important in how I judge things. So even if SOE put in items that had stats you could buy I probably would not leave. If they fundamentally change the experience I was paying for, the only real example I have would be the NGE thing, I would leave.
To understand this you have to accept I am genuine in saying that SOE except with NGE has given me my moneys worth. With NGE I simply left. That is why I give no excuses. Some of those things you mention I said and I view them as (arguably perhaps) facts about the direction of mmos. They were not excuses because I do not find this a problem. I simply do not feel SOE has scammed me. Others can give me their resasons for leaving or the line they would not cross but those are not mine. They can post quotes Smed or SOE has said, I have read them all. I am as informed and maybe more so then some who post here I simply do not see red horns on Smed's head.
Make EQ2 a first person shooter or a strategy game I would leave. Raise the manditory monthly fee to 25 buck I would leave. Put in a helmet that some one could buy with a str buff I would not leave. I hope that answers your question. You and I will never agree on this since you view it as hurting the game and I do not.
Yet another post I agree with ecco on because I feel the exact same way. Though I have to be honest and say that if Knights of the Republic or Star Trek Online are good games, I MAY go play them for a while (Knights of the Old Republic is my favorite game). I likely will come back to EQ2 though. I usually do.
Ecco, thanks for answering. It was a great read and you hit most of the points we both made and agree to disagree on some things. Others we are closer to agreement than it appears due to the different sides of the fence we sit on.
That being said, your reply the one above it and the one directly below it still do something I've seen often in SOE forums. That is ignoring what is happening to your fellow players by turning blind eyes and in some cases telling people to STFU and leave. There is something so disfunctional in a community when the knee jerk reaction is telling people to leave.
SOE has been doing this for years to the community. They are chasing your fellow players away one segment at a time with this type of behavior. That is why the forums are littered with people who get so upset at this company. Why the games do so poorly in the market. Why things are so rushed out or unfinished. These are all the results of those decisions that the faithful fans have little issue with and it just empowers the cycle to continue. Regardless of if people accept the changes or ignore them it is pretty hard to deny that there are plenty of reasons for people to be upset by this. Very valid reasons.
It is times like this when I really have to scratch my head as people start topics in this forum like "why doesn't EQ2 attract more people".
Comments
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
sometimes it's not about 'addiction' 90% of the game is something my wife and i can agree on. we play together. she heals my sorry butt when she thinks i deserve it, and it's a good way for us to spend time together. even if we only play 2 hrs a month it's cheaper than us going to a movie night for that month.....
and i'm also on the list of ... played EQ, EQII, WOW, LOTRO, Vanguard, CoH, dot dot dot, etc etc etc. EQII is (except for this one point that i have a problem with (at the moment)) the best game for what i'm looking for...... when the 'next generation comes out' with all their Microtransactions in place i'll be ready for it and accepting it going in. not 'blindsided by it right after an expansion...... but again, that's just my perspective.....
Some are duoers, but if like most you're a guildie, you're going to stay regardless. EQ2 is hard to leave because of that social pull. When I said I was leaving, guildies were coming out of the woodwork saying, "I can help you level". I didn't need help leveling, I needed RMT out of the game.
Most will find it hard to leave. Knew a guy who kept deleting his level 70 characters, and screamed he'll delete the one folks were helping him level up if someone pushed him to level faster. But despite the frustrations he had (and the 101 reasons to delete those high level characters), he'll stay even though unemployed. It becomes a life of it's own.
Either way, it's an addiction. One that is very hard to break if folks aren't extremely independent types (I haven't found a game I played longer than 90 days -- after 90 days it's time to leave, as the content becomes so boring I could sleep at the keyboard).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Online folks don't need to know if you wipe your butt with your right or left hand to know your thoughts -- your posting history tells enough. That's the face folks see, Eccoton. That's the face folks will judge you on. Not your RL; nor what you're done in EQ2; nor what you've done at 1001 other places online and off.
As much as you see those who quit EQ2 as haters, I see you as someone who rather stay in a game and make others who disagree with EQ2's direction or have left the game miserable. You like to paint EQ2 so rosey, and pooh-pooh or ignore it's flaws, even.
Do you know about the Fighter 2.0 changes coming up? Something so important that is in the works that will turn classes upside down, and not a peep to a new inquiring player? It's that type of blinders that can make yet another "hater" out of EQ2 when they took the copy and paste salesman advice at stock value, only to find in 2 months or so their uber decked out fighter/healer/wizzy is end-game trash.
If you truly love the game, you must acknowledge the good and the bad, and tell folks the truth -- not just what you want them to read.
You obviuosly do not know my post history at all. Never once have I called or suggested that someone who leaves a SOE game is a hater. Find the post where I have said that, find one. I have used the word "Hater" to describe a type of individual that hates SOE so much that they seem to hate anything that they do. I have never used it to put anyone down. I believe even those that have wrestled with me on these forums and disagree with me would say that is untrue statement about my posts. Again you do not know my post history at all. I have never painted EQ2 all rosey or over looked it's flaws. Are these the only posts you have read of mine? This thread was about SOE scaming its players with the item mall in eq/eq2. I presented my argument for item malls never insulting or making assumptions about any. However look at how much I have had to defend myself. Seems to me you are the one that can not accept someone who likes eq2 and they have some sort of flaw if they do, like an "addiction".
my guild is 27 members in 5 accounts, me, my wife, two room-mates and a friend from out of town.
where-ever my wife and i go, our guild will follow......
so guild isn't keeping us here... although the social aspect cannot be disputed hehe
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....
but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.
*sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.
The big mistake that Smedtard makes is he looks at the RMT shops for the asian grinders and gets dollar signs on the brain.
In many parts of Asia, people have hot rice porriage and steamed buns for breakfast.
In the US/Europe, people have eggs/toast and pancakes with coffee/tea.
In Asia, the gamers like F2P with item shops.
In NA/Europe, the gamers like flat monthly subs.
It is a question of taste.
And there is no way you could push sales rice gruel for breakfast and expect people in the US/Europe to like it. No matter the claims that "the majority of breakfast eaters world wide like rice gruel, and, the largest segment of growth in the breakfast market is in rice gruel, and we see the future of breakfast in rice gruel." None of that matters a damn if the paying customer hates rice gruel.
And to stick with the food metaphor a bit longer, SOE is charging for both entrance to the breakfast buffet and charging for items that should be included as part of it. And the rice gruel.
And telling people that they should shut up and like rice gruel ain't gonna make your customers happy, they will simply go someplace else for pancakes.
I honestly don't see what people are whining about...you aren't required to use the marketplace. All it has it silly things like pots/casual clothes/house pets so on. Nothing that really impacts the game in any way. I got 5 years worth of vet pots that I rarely if ever touch.
It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.
It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
I would have canceled my subs last month BEFORE I would have paid for the expansion! 80 euros total!!
That's what is the issue here!
I dont give a crap about this system. They said it would NEVER come into EverQuest 2.
More even so, that they DELIBERATELY waited till couple weeks after the TSO expansion and kept it all secret to MAXIMISE expansion sales! As they knew lot of people would have canceled and NOT buy the expansion if they announced this lets say end of october / early november.
I don't know what SCAM means in your dictionary. But in mine this is a SCAM. Pure and simple!
And when you look into their feedback thread on the official forums, then you will see that a lot of people feel the exact same about this.
Cheers
dude, you got too much time in your hands to be angry at something like this...
No worries then if you just pay him 80 euros for the trouble this matter has caused him?
BTW, I'd like $49 ($10 extra for shipping) for buying that TOS expansion, too.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I guess since corporate presidents in the hotel industry lie all the time to their customers it is just fine and dandy that it happens in MMOs.
This is a perfect example of why SOE can get away with what they do for so long.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....
but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.
*sighs* honey, I work in a service driven industry. The product is a hotel room, and the service is what we give the customer. You are wrong and you are taking this to a place it doesn't need to go. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that many people here are being very childish about this. I could even cite many instances in hotels that compare to this but you wouldn't care anyway because you're hell bent on thinking you're being screwed when you aren't.
so far you've said i'm wrong a number of ways, my questions still stand....
how is SOE saying they will not launch RMT on non-Station Exchange servers, and then doing just that, not wrong?
how is it not out and out misrepresentation of their intentions?
how is implementing it days after a new expansion not inappropriate?
I've worked as a wedding dj for going on 20 years, and if i treated people like that i'd be out of business, but that's just because i'm a little guy i guess....
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
I think what it really boils down too is the simple fact that people don't like being lied too, and this is exactly what John Smedley has done...and frankly has been doing for quite some time.
I think that quite a few people here either don't recall or was not involved in SWG pre-NGE, i don't think they can really understand that when NGE was released entire guilds left, thousands upon thousands of players quit...or the amount of players who bought Trials of Obi-Wan only to send it back to SoE demanding a refund on a obviously incomplete expansion....due to Mr. Smedley's and staffs ineptitude and disconnection with the gaming public,
Is RMT a big thing? well to be honest i can see how it can give a pssible advantage on PvP servers, yes...an advantage given to a player simply because he/she is willing to shell out more money for a 'x' weapon or 'y' armor is a way to make others shell out the same amount not just to gain a similar advantage but just to be on-par.....why bother killing that NM for that unique drop when you can give SoE an extra 10 bucks?
However, the real point is Mr. Smedley flat-out said that RMT wouldn't be on non player-exchange servers...once again and very true to form he lied and did whatever he wanted, player-base be damned.
When this doesn't work either and EQ2 players start leaving.....hopefully SoE will get the message and fire Mr. Smedley.
Edit: here is a very old (and very long) article from a former EQ/SWG gamer talking about SoE tactics and Mr. Smedley.
http://plaguelands.com/2006/02/23/smedley%E2%80%99s-skill-in-the-art-of-bs-has-increased-to-epic-proportions-300/
If you think of mmos as a game like a console game these changes will piss you off. Most of the people so angry about this probably view the eq2 experience in this way. So many mention "earning" some thing. It is all about stats and showing off that you are a better player then someone else by your hard earned gear or rare items. Some may just rush to the level cap as if that is what the game is about much like a console platformer to show off their skill. Look at me I am first to the cap with this epic mount, woot I win. I see this in every mmo especialy WOW. The show-off factor some like in mmos this does not matter to me in the slightest. So you see buying a fluff item like a pet does not bother me at all I do not care if another player "earned" it or bought it. The fact it is, in game items add to the diversity of the living world feel not represent some sort of trophy to me.
In this thread alone I have been called a lot of things by those that do not like the idea. They can not understand that I can stay with a game that changes or has things I disagree with. Calling me complacent or addicted shows they are on a different wave length when it come s mmorpgs. You see it is simple I could careless what others have in the game I do not view mmos as a competition like a strategy or shooter game. I do not play the game for the rewards simply because I do not view items in mmos as rewards. Items are tools for me to enjoy the diversity of the persisten world. I avoid PvP type mmos because that is how the players interact in the world as if they are winning. This is fine and fun for many just not my play style.
I play these games for the experience of being in what I see as a living changing persisten world. That is the experience I expect to get for my money. EQ2 has offered this since release. Even with all the changes that core element has not changed. When the changes come I adapted my play style accordingly. If I can not do this I leave. What would make me leave is what SOE did to SWG. They change the core experience into one more like a console type game. It went from a living breathing world to a game. That is why I left, it had nothing to do with "lies" or changes I did not agree with. Mmos always change. WoTLK has tons of players saying they had enough and are leaving WOW. It does not matter how the developer presents the change, truthfully or "lies" some will leave if anything changes and spend time vilifying the developers, a lot of people simply hate change. I embrace change because that is life nothing stays the same. These games are meant to change and should change. Most who post here do not seem so angry about the changes but how the changes were announced or implemented into the game.
The changes SOE has made to EQ2 have actually help me enjoy the persistent world even more. This includes using a modest item mall. EQ2 offers a lot of choice in play style. Those that say these items in the mall are an excuse not to add content items you can get in game are simply making a weak argument. EQ2 has more items to aquire then any mmo I have played (except pre-nge SWG). It would take you years if ever to get everything. There are 1000's of item. Now if EQ2 had about 100 items I could see this arguement a bit clearer. Has SOE lied well yes, it seem to suggest that, with the many post showing statement made by them. However I look at it less as some kind of lie or scam to trick their player base and more as a business changing its mind. SOE is really guilty of poor communication skills.
Now you can totally disagree with my above reasons but maybe if you change your thinking a bit you can see how this is not such a deal breaker for me. You may still not want to play EQ2 but you might not feel the need to label me as someone who does not get it or addicted. We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it. The numerous changes in EQ2 some I agree with some I don't have not changed what EQ2 offers me. It offers a chance to explore and interact with a living breathing world. I been playing WOW since release it is a great game I love it. However it is more of a game to me. My avatar is just a vehicle to move around the game world. EQ2 seems alive to me. My avatars are like little people that have lives and personalities hence the rpg part of mmorpg. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 has changed that, in fact over the years it has become more of a living world. So the changes are not that big of a deal to me. We simply play the same game but get different expereinces from it. From your point of view this stuff is game breaking from mine they aren't. EQ2 is a masterpeice work of art for me even with a few cracks in the paint (cut me a bit of slack with that analogy after all I do teach art history. My students actually think it is pretty fun I wear my WOW cap on campus. I really want an EQ2 cap that might confuse them since I am know as that WOW professor. They do not know I am more into EQ2. To those that say I am addicted to EQ2 wrong in my real life people would more likely say I am addicted to WOW. I am not a EQ2 fanboi I play a lot of mmos by a lot of different developers).
I think that perhaps, if both sides would stop sniping at one another and simply admit that because the way that they approach the game is fundamentally different much of the animosity and name-calling would cease.
I am one of the biggest EQ2 boosters around. I love the game. I have also been strident in my criticism over the years when they do bone-headed things. No one here has accused me of being in Sony's pocket, and aside from the noise generated by one poster in particular, no one has accused me of being a "hater".
Why? Because I attempt to address my comments from the notion that both sides are correct in this. They are. As I stated in past posts, people will draw their own "line in the sand" over this issue, and belittling someone who has reached and refuses to follow across that line, or the one who happily steps over it, is futile and does nothing but generate hard feelings. The end result is that some people reading here will certainly be turned away from the game due to the rancor exhibited.
Name calling and personal attacks help no one, and simply serve to make the poster look foolish.
I hope that some of you will try to see the other side and stop poking one another over an issue that, in the end, is simply a personal choice.
Good luck with that.
I think that perhaps, if both sides would stop sniping at one another and simply admit that because the way that they approach the game is fundamentally different much of the animosity and name-calling would cease.
I am one of the biggest EQ2 boosters around. I love the game. I have also been strident in my criticism over the years when they do bone-headed things. No one here has accused me of being in Sony's pocket, and aside from the noise generated by one poster in particular, no one has accused me of being a "hater".
Why? Because I attempt to address my comments from the notion that both sides are correct in this. They are. As I stated in past posts, people will draw their own "line in the sand" over this issue, and belittling someone who has reached and refuses to follow across that line, or the one who happily steps over it, is futile and does nothing but generate hard feelings. The end result is that some people reading here will certainly be turned away from the game due to the rancor exhibited.
Name calling and personal attacks help no one, and simply serve to make the poster look foolish.
I hope that some of you will try to see the other side and stop poking one another over an issue that, in the end, is simply a personal choice.
Good luck with that.
That was the point of the post you got this quote from. The whole post was to point out we approach the game from different points of view. Neither one better then the other, just different. I was not sniping at anyone. If you were using that paragraph to suggest I was sniping you are using it totally out of context of the entire post. I have a bigger problem with that then being called addicted or complacent. Do not take a part of a long post out of context to say I am sniping. Nothing in my post is doing that. It is supporting your idea totally.
We simply play the game for different reasons and get different experiences from it.
You left this part out didn't you?
Hear Ye Hear Ye consumers of EQ2 a new and wonderous cap can be purchased at the magic Item Mall ... Be the very 1st to own your very own Smed Da Liar Cap this beatifully tailored Jughead Cap will be the envy of all your friends.. So hurry errrrr, i mean reallyy hurry ,ohh dam nevermind everyone has 1 now...
Hear Ye Hear Ye consumers of EQ2 a new and wonderous cap can be purchased at the magic Item Mall ... Be the very 1st to own your very own Smed Da Liar Cap this beatifully tailored Jughead Cap will be the envy of all your friends.. So hurry errrrr, i mean reallyy hurry ,ohh dam nevermind everyone has 1 now...
Good shot at me funny.
So ecco, where is the line drawn for you then?
I've heard just about every excuse, apology and rationale from multiple people around here including:
Not one single excuse justifies how this is a positive change for the game. You have developers creating content, the same developers that have been creating content all this time and adding it to the game for free. Now they are doing the same exact job, but each of their creations now has a price tag on it. That is fact.
No matter how anyone tries to rationalize it, SOE now is withholding content from the players unless they cough up some more money. We also know that SOE is debating what degree of items that are going to introduce from the Bruce Ferguson interview talking about armor and weapons coming to the store. This proves they are willing to add more that just fluff items.
The people who keep trying to downplay this seem to be unable to see that this change will come at the expense of some of their fellow players. They were told in no uncertain terms that this type of thing would not happen. This is a giant breach of trust and ethics, yet again, for people and they have effectively had their game altered by something they were told would never happen. So far I have not seen one supporter of this idea acknowledge that this new feature they enjoy comes at the expense of other peoples gameplay experience and they will leave over this. Time and time again I have heard their concerns downplayed, ridiculed and sometimes given an all to familiar "don't let the door hit you in the ass" comments from their fellow players.
When is it to much for you and do you think SOE could possibly cross that line? I am very curious what your answer might be to that.
On a side note you have taken a bit of a personal beating here and shown very good character through it all. I will admit that I keep addressing your personally when I really intended to be speaking about the general populous. IE my claiming you should stand up once in a while should/was meant to be aimed at the EQ2 populous in general. Likewise you have taken a few things to personally or a bit out of context, but not so much that it changes what has happened. Again my apologies for treading the line and not paying attention in other cases where I should have been far more clear.
While I disagree with most of what you have written, you have shown better manners than I am accustomed to finding in these forums and I hope to return the favor.
I dont think you have taken things into consideration...
1. If Sony can sell more goods, they will make more goods (They will ramp up production to meet the demand).
2. SOE is now part of the gaming division (think PS3). This means that despite the fact that they have always been turning a profit, when the gamig division has been losing money left and right.... thier jobs are now on the line. So, if they can make thier games into cash cows, the PS3 can continue to lose money, and no one will get fired.
3. Business' go where the money is. So, if they can make more money, other companies will follow suite. You will see more competition, and then you will have alternatives.
It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.
It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.
Not again. What are you people broken records that you just repeat the same thing over and over and over? Stop whining until it actually happens instead of constantly freaking out. If you don't like it, then leave the goddamned game instead of annoying the crap out of the rest of us for no goddamned reason. Its called "maturity". We may have cared originally, we may have even sympathized, but the whining has gotten unreasonable and just plain annoying.
It's pretty easy to see what people are "whining" about. If you really believe that this is where it ends, a few trinkets and what-not, then a very sheltered life have you led.
It is almost as if SOE WANTS to close it's MMO's down. Or at the least the P2P aspect of it.
Not again. What are you people broken records that you just repeat the same thing over and over and over? Stop whining until it actually happens instead of constantly freaking out. If you don't like it, then leave the goddamned game instead of annoying the crap out of the rest of us for no goddamned reason. Its called "maturity". We may have cared originally, we may have even sympathized, but the whining has gotten unreasonable and just plain annoying.
Sweet sweet irony.
No excuses here. I don't care about it. Armor and weapons? Are you sure they won't be something similar to the faction armor and weapons we already have, just cooler looking? If you draw the line here, then quit and get on with your life.
So Smedley "lied?" To lie implies that he knew all along that they were going to implement a cash shop, but for all we know circumstances within the company may have made his past statement irrelevant. It isn't personal, folks, happens all the time (intended lies or not) in business. Doesn't make it ok, but don't act so surprised given that the government (of any country) sets the trend.
I hear a lot of "the sky is falling" posts about this that it is quite honestly pathetic. Quit already, and by this I mean really quit, not threaten to do so and be back in a week to complain about something else. Not saying anyone here does that, they are abundant on the official forums. Until game breaking items are added to the cash shop, its nothing to waste time griping over for me, personally.
Now that is a good question and a hard one to answer for others to understand but easy for me to understand. Like I said I view mmos as entertainement and for me it is also about the persistent world experience I am having. That not only includes gameplay but graphics, art direction, sound design, game performance, reliability, unique story, and more. That is what I come for and pay for. I also do not play pvp. Those to things are important in how I judge things. So even if SOE put in items that had stats you could buy I probably would not leave. If they fundamentally change the experience I was paying for, the only real example I have would be the NGE thing, I would leave.
To understand this you have to accept I am genuine in saying that SOE except with NGE has given me my moneys worth. With NGE I simply left. That is why I give no excuses. Some of those things you mention I said and I view them as (arguably perhaps) facts about the direction of mmos. They were not excuses because I do not find this a problem. I simply do not feel SOE has scammed me. Others can give me their resasons for leaving or the line they would not cross but those are not mine. They can post quotes Smed or SOE has said, I have read them all. I am as informed and maybe more so then some who post here I simply do not see red horns on Smed's head.
Make EQ2 a first person shooter or a strategy game I would leave. Raise the manditory monthly fee to 25 buck I would leave. Put in a helmet that some one could buy with a str buff I would not leave. I hope that answers your question. You and I will never agree on this since you view it as hurting the game and I do not.
Yet another post I agree with ecco on because I feel the exact same way. Though I have to be honest and say that if Knights of the Republic or Star Trek Online are good games, I MAY go play them for a while (Knights of the Old Republic is my favorite game). I likely will come back to EQ2 though. I usually do.
Ecco, thanks for answering. It was a great read and you hit most of the points we both made and agree to disagree on some things. Others we are closer to agreement than it appears due to the different sides of the fence we sit on.
That being said, your reply the one above it and the one directly below it still do something I've seen often in SOE forums. That is ignoring what is happening to your fellow players by turning blind eyes and in some cases telling people to STFU and leave. There is something so disfunctional in a community when the knee jerk reaction is telling people to leave.
SOE has been doing this for years to the community. They are chasing your fellow players away one segment at a time with this type of behavior. That is why the forums are littered with people who get so upset at this company. Why the games do so poorly in the market. Why things are so rushed out or unfinished. These are all the results of those decisions that the faithful fans have little issue with and it just empowers the cycle to continue. Regardless of if people accept the changes or ignore them it is pretty hard to deny that there are plenty of reasons for people to be upset by this. Very valid reasons.
It is times like this when I really have to scratch my head as people start topics in this forum like "why doesn't EQ2 attract more people".