It has been mentioned this is wrong since SOE did not even ask it's customers what they thought. I am not aware of how SOE test markets an idea so I will not make assumptions about this. However, why do you feel SOE needed to discuss with you this change? This question is actually the core of this agrument not the item mall itself. Despite the time and emotion invested, uniquely to mmorpgs, they are owned by their developers not the player base. SOE's use of item mall may indeed backfire on them with EQ2 but EQ2 is not their future, especailly on PC. As a huge fan of EQ2 and PC mmos, I am disapointed by this reality but it is fact. However I am also a user of the PS3 and Xbox 360. I also use Home and have used the item mall there, so I am also interested to see how mmos develope on consoles. SOE is making risky decisions and their results are far from certain. A few that have expressed their dislike about this talk about it as if is actually a moral issue. There are emotions arisen on this issue that seem unwarranted. Both side of the argument do this. So in regards to this being a "scam" people will never agree on this, since for one side it seems to be a moral issue and the other a business issue. That divide will eventually determine whether SOE's unexpected and questionable business decisions will be successful.
Why do I feel they needed to discuss this with the players?
How many times has soe promised to communicate better with their customers? How many times has smed promised not to do these types of things without listening to you and everyone else who pays them money for their service. I am talking about direct to community pleas by smed and their leadership promising to do this. How many times does he have to talk about past failures and directly state that they didn't listen to the customers.
You are right in a technical sense that soe owns the game and is free to do whatever they want with it, but as history proves that is not only a losing formula for them it also drives away their playerbase. Which is usually followed by smed and company grovelling for forgivness with promises in hand about how it will not happen again and they are sorry.
What you so easily dismiss as business is textbook case of bad customer service. It is disrespecting your customers. Why do you think this 'awesome' game can't muster more people in a market saturated with people desperate for a new game?
The fact is soe lied, again, about not putting real money transaction into the game.
They lied, again, about listening to their customer base.
They dismissed their entire playerbase as unimportant by doing this and are in fact using them as test subjects. These changes are not done to better serve you or anyone else. It is to use a dying mmo in the hopes it betters their future games which many of the people here may never even play. Is that how you think a service based company should view their customers... as test subjects?
Where you see me as being emotional I see you as being indifferent and filled with apathy. There is no plausible way to say this is not bad customer service and terrible business practice. Yet you keep dancing very eloquently around those as if they are minor issues and there is something more important to discuss like consoles and future mmos. For soe this may be true, but that does not change how this affect thier current customers. Something they have a long track record of ignoring in favor of the potential customer.
For the record, I really don't expect soe to discuss anything like this with the playerbase, because I don't expect them to have ethics of any measurable degree. I fully expect them to take actions exactly how they did this. Nothing has changed and nothing would indicate that they plan to change. Why should they when they have a small group of people who empower them to do these things while turning a blind eye to those it forces out.
Edit: it is a scam. This content was already payed for by subscription fees and is only being removed with the express intention to make more money for the same amount of effort. That is pretty much the definition of a scam. It just isn't the largest scam in the world, but the size doesn't change the very nature of what it is. It is more akin to a tax on ignorance.
Ok, gotta make a short post because I am sitting in class right now..
But as for lying, again, I recall this...and NGE in SWG... I really don't recall them consistantly making changes like this and screwing people over and over again. I see this as their second slip up.
I hardly view their customer service as being particularly bad. When I have had to deal with them when I had issues in the past, I got into contact with someone almost immedietly. They worked with me for as long as it took to completely solve the problem.
And, again I will point this out, the items on the marketplace are not old stuff that SOE pulled from the realm of free and threw into their station cash system. It is all new things that they made specifically for the marketplace.
EDIT: One more thing to add...: EQ2 is hardly a dying game, not sure what makes you think it is.
Ok, gotta make a short post because I am sitting in class right now.. But as for lying, again, I recall this...and NGE in SWG... I really don't recall them consistantly making changes like this and screwing people over and over again. I see this as their second slip up. I hardly view their customer service as being particularly bad. When I have had to deal with them when I had issues in the past, I got into contact with someone almost immedietly. They worked with me for as long as it took to completely solve the problem. And, again I will point this out, the items on the marketplace are not old stuff that SOE pulled from the realm of free and threw into their station cash system. It is all new things that they made specifically for the marketplace.
EDIT: One more thing to add...: EQ2 is hardly a dying game, not sure what makes you think it is.
Oh for gods sakes... its just a cashshop, they haven't completely changed everything about the game like what happened to SWG. Get over it already.
Daff has asked what is the line SOE would cross that would get me to leave. Really as long as I am enjoying EQ2 there is no line. However this might cause me to leave. I am very hopeful and excited about this. As much as I love EQ2 and WoW Iam looking for new experiences.
Yep its a shame alright. It made my decision not to ever go back to EQ2, just like how I will never go back to WoW after they added in game items that are bought with real world money through their card game. It really surprised me how few people pitched a fit about that. To me that is the sign that Blizzard is following the same path to RMT.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Ok, gotta make a short post because I am sitting in class right now.. But as for lying, again, I recall this...and NGE in SWG... I really don't recall them consistantly making changes like this and screwing people over and over again. I see this as their second slip up. I hardly view their customer service as being particularly bad. When I have had to deal with them when I had issues in the past, I got into contact with someone almost immedietly. They worked with me for as long as it took to completely solve the problem. And, again I will point this out, the items on the marketplace are not old stuff that SOE pulled from the realm of free and threw into their station cash system. It is all new things that they made specifically for the marketplace.
EDIT: One more thing to add...: EQ2 is hardly a dying game, not sure what makes you think it is.
EQ2 as a game has passed its peak some time ago and is on a downward trend. I'm not saying the game is dead now or closing down soon, but it is not growing anymore and hasn't for some time. Soe realizes that, which is why they didn't bother asking for player input on cash shops, because frankly you don't matter enough compared to the potential customer of the future.
As for items not being new. Think about this. The same programmers are making the cash shop items that are making the normal in game items. Everything those developers made prior to the cash shop went into the game as part of the subscription fee. 100% of their subscription funded development time went right back into the game. Now unless there is some sort of new math for keeping track of time, those devs are spending time making items as strickly cash shop only. That time used to be spent 100% for subscription/expansion updates, but now it isn't. Everything that goes into the cash shop would normally be free with an active account. The only reason it is for sale is because soe wants more money.
See it now? Same people, same effort, less content unless you pay more on a per item basis.
As for lying. These are just off the top of my head.
They promised to work on the combat rebalance based on player feedback instead of expansions. All the while talking about progress they pulled almost the entire live team to make the expansion.
Combat upgrade is here to stay, while they are working on the nge.
The complete package of the nge to so many degrees
No RMT in everquest games, hello station cash
Surprising EQ2 with station exchange(which was originally going into all/most servers, but people actually stood up to soe *GASP*). To bad you can't read about that, because they deleted the whole forum where they corraled all the discussion. Any bets the same happens here in a few months.
Several instance of GMs breaking rules to help their ingame friends. Instead of fixing player submitted bug reports, gms used those exploits to get their ingame guild/friend legendary items. Things of that nature.
The infamous 'guild summit' where soe had to fly out actual players in a public relations stunt to avoid the player boycott of their next expansion, because the last one was so bug ridden it made playing the game terrible.
Fiery avenger is in the game, jedi are in the game, froglocs are in the game and countless other promises of things that are in the game or working that haven't even been finished yet. How many zones in planes of power were intentionally broken, because they just were not finished yet.
The list is actually pretty long if you know the history.
Why do I feel they needed to discuss this with the players?
How many times has soe promised to communicate better with their customers? How many times has smed promised not to do these types of things without listening to you and everyone else who pays them money for their service. I am talking about direct to community pleas by smed and their leadership promising to do this. How many times does he have to talk about past failures and directly state that they didn't listen to the customers.
You are right in a technical sense that soe owns the game and is free to do whatever they want with it, but as history proves that is not only a losing formula for them it also drives away their playerbase. Which is usually followed by smed and company grovelling for forgivness with promises in hand about how it will not happen again and they are sorry.
What you so easily dismiss as business is textbook case of bad customer service. It is disrespecting your customers. Why do you think this 'awesome' game can't muster more people in a market saturated with people desperate for a new game?
The fact is soe lied, again, about not putting real money transaction into the game.
They lied, again, about listening to their customer base.
They dismissed their entire playerbase as unimportant by doing this and are in fact using them as test subjects. These changes are not done to better serve you or anyone else. It is to use a dying mmo in the hopes it betters their future games which many of the people here may never even play. Is that how you think a service based company should view their customers... as test subjects?
Where you see me as being emotional I see you as being indifferent and filled with apathy. There is no plausible way to say this is not bad customer service and terrible business practice. Yet you keep dancing very eloquently around those as if they are minor issues and there is something more important to discuss like consoles and future mmos. For soe this may be true, but that does not change how this affect thier current customers. Something they have a long track record of ignoring in favor of the potential customer.
For the record, I really don't expect soe to discuss anything like this with the playerbase, because I don't expect them to have ethics of any measurable degree. I fully expect them to take actions exactly how they did this. Nothing has changed and nothing would indicate that they plan to change. Why should they when they have a small group of people who empower them to do these things while turning a blind eye to those it forces out.
Edit: it is a scam. This content was already payed for by subscription fees and is only being removed with the express intention to make more money for the same amount of effort. That is pretty much the definition of a scam. It just isn't the largest scam in the world, but the size doesn't change the very nature of what it is. It is more akin to a tax on ignorance.
Exactly,
People have forgotten the definition of scam and what it encompasses. Scam comes in various ways and the Cash shop is one of them. Just like the NGE was.
The only people that don't care about the Cash Shop and wave us off as <fill in yourself> are the ones that never cared about Fluff items in the first place.
Me, but especially my girlfriend cared a lot about fluff items in EverQuest2.
And so a lot of friends of ours. All who have quit since the Cash Shop.
People who loved housing, decorating, all cosmetic armor to change looks regularly, aquiring fluff pets and other fluff stuff through event quests, etc.
And you would be suprised about how many people care for all this so called fluff.
All who played EverQuest 2 since release. Never cared about RAID'ing, but more about the questing, exploring, crafting and housing, decorating, cosmetics, etc.
Because what is fluff to you is not fluff to us!
What is the definition of fluff? Just because it has no stats on it?
For all those people like us, loyal EQ2 customers for years, this Cash Shop was a BIG slap in our face!
For US this was a Radical change in our Game Experience!! Not for you maybe, but for US!!
To continue enjoying the game like we have done for years and paid our share of monthly fees and expansion fees for, we now are also forced to pay REAL money on the Cash Shop!
Because from now on, this will be the only way for US to gain new so called Fluff items. Items that are NOT Fluff to us, but were always a BIG part of our Game Experience.
So yes.... after all these years... we feel SCAMMED!
Especially because the CEO himself promissed us not so long ago that this kind of crap would never be done to their existing games!
Exactly, People have forgotten the definition of scam and what it encompasses. Scam comes in various ways and the Cash shop is one of them. Just like the NGE was. The only people that don't care about the Cash Shop and wave us off as <fill in yourself> are the ones that never cared about Fluff items in the first place. Me, but especially my girlfriend cared a lot about fluff items in EverQuest2. And so a lot of friends of ours. All who have quit since the Cash Shop. People who loved housing, decorating, all cosmetic armor to change looks regularly, aquiring fluff pets and other fluff stuff through event quests, etc. And you would be suprised about how many people care for all this so called fluff. All who played EverQuest 2 since release. Never cared about RAID'ing, but more about the questing, exploring, crafting and housing, decorating, cosmetics, etc. Because what is fluff to you is not fluff to us! What is the definition of fluff? Just because it has no stats on it? For all those people like us, loyal EQ2 customers for years, this Cash Shop was a BIG slap in our face! For US this was a Radical change in our Game Experience!! Not for you maybe, but for US!! To continue enjoying the game like we have done for years and paid our share of monthly fees and expansion fees for, we now are also forced to pay REAL money on the Cash Shop! Because from now on, this will be the only way for US to gain new so called Fluff items. Items that are NOT Fluff to us, but were always a BIG part of our Game Experience.
So yes.... after all these years... we feel SCAMMED! Especially because the CEO himself promissed us not so long ago that this kind of crap would never be done to their existing games!
My feelings are well know on this issue. I am assuming this poster has read them because I know everyone reads all the post in a thread to full understand what they are posting on. Right? eccoton is meant to be the type that fills in the <blank>. After reading this post I am glad to be in that group. I have made it clear I like the item mall. So indeed this post is direct at "my type" you know the not truely loyal EQ2 player.
I have been posting here for 4 years often with a lot of passion for my opinion. Not once has any post actually made me mad even the ones that attack me by name. Well there is a first for everything. Thank god you made it clear what people like you are. I am so glad I am a <fill in the blank>! I find this response the most insulting post here. The elitest, I am better then you, attitude speaks volume the the "Us" players it refers to. I support the item mall so I am not one of the "Us" neither am I loyal or as good of a player then this poster and his friends who care. You see I do not "care" about fluff items. It is impossible since I bought a house pet from the item mall.
Poster, How old is your account? Mine is 1912 days old. I was also in the beta test. In over 4 years of subscribing to EQ2 I have played every single day but missed less then a dozen. I missed a few days when I moved and had surgery. After surgey (life threatening) all I wanted to do was play EQ2 as sson as I could. Now somedays may have only been an hour but many were 4+ hours. Basically I have played EQ2 everyday for over 4 years. And you? I have maxed my factions with almost every faction group in the game except those that go negative when you advance in an opposing one. The poster knows how hard that is and the dedication that takes. I wonder if he has that amount of disloyalty in him. I have completed all the L&L quests in the game on 4 different characters. All heroic quest on one character. I support 7, 5 room houses all decorated with fluff I have spent years working to get. And you? Hmmm I have paid for all my expansions too. Wow all these years, man that must be tough sounds like you have really suffered all these years to prove you are a "loyal" player. I am a raider so I must not be loyal like those that don't raid and only collect "fluff". This poster is really "loyal", someday maybe I might be just as loyal. I have spent endless hours posting about EQ2 and helping players to understand and enjoy it more. And You? Not bad for the disloyal EQ2 player.
I am adding a few house shots I just took for this post, you may recognize some of the items. Being such a loyal player you will note how hard some of that fluff was to get.
My aquarium. There are no aquariums in the game so I made it out of other items like paintings, toys, plants, and pools.
My garden I am very proud of, many of the items here took me years to get. I spend hours decorating in fact my guild jokes about it. They made me chief decorated of our massive guildhall and for me that is endgame joy. I am all about the "fluff" item the poster claim I do not repsect. After all I bought a house pet.
I wanted to add a close-up of one of my table to show my love for the tiny items that many over look. Again the poster will note some of these items are very rare. Being so loyal he must appreciate the effort but I doubt it. Remember I like the marketplace as just another way to enjoy the game I am totally disloyal.
More then item malls it is players like the "Us" that ruin mmos. Every game has them. You no the type, they hang around populated areas like the broker in South Qeynos showing off their elite gear and mounts like they are some sort of gaming god. You know the types that do not group with you for fun because your sword is 2 dps less then their sword. You know the "loyal" type that turn down their nose on other players because they my not have worked hard enough in the game to be worthy of standing next to. The type of play intolerant to new players or less skilled player who kick someone out of a group for making a mistake and getting the group killed. You know the type that do not remember this is a game and for everyone regardless of their play style. You know the type that will not invited a well meaning but weak player into their guild because that player is not good enough. These type of players hurt EQ2 way more then any item mall regardless of the type of items being sold. That is not "loyal" that is elitism. That is what hurts an mmo not a couple bucks for a "Fluff" item. Where I come from the "quitters" are the disloyal. The ones who stay even in tough time and soldier on are how we view loyalty. It is funny that so many "quitters" claim to have the best interest of EQ2 in mind. They do this by quitting? That I do not understand.
Edit: Yes I do realize the poster was not talking about me personally but as a loyal EQ2 fan I am insulted for all of "us" who truely love and support this game.
To the OP: Personally I'm glad you're making a fuss about this. I think it's a terrible idea for P2P games. The argument that peeps buy things anyway on ebay and such is not convincing for me. When that behavior is against the official TOS far less peeps actually do it, and the majority of the player community will be disdainful of such behavior. After all a common insult on P2P games is some comment like "How much did you pay for your character"? Not to mention as others have said previously free content will no longer be free. I read awhile back that Blizzard was gonna go this route too. If there's enough negative attention and cancellations at SOE maybe they'll reconsider. If not I"ll most likely quit unless they make it F2P or provide seperate servers as SOE was supposed to do. What 's the point in having a game built on leveling and effort to aquire items if you can just buy all those things and have them instantly? It essentially makes the game world meaningless.
This is nothing new they have been doing it a long time. They had the exchange servers in eq2 and also the legends server in eq1 where it costed 45 dollars a month but there were live events every day and you could get unique gear and bring it to your regular server.
Originally posted by eccoton Edit: Yes I do realize the poster was not talking about me personally but as a loyal EQ2 fan I am insulted for all of "us" who truely love and support this game.
There is a lot I could comment on in your post, but this will sum it up just fine.
Yes you are loyal and a true fan of the game. I think it is that exact reason you work so hard to justify the fact the you not only support, but defend this companies bad business practices. You illustrate rather clearly that some people are personally invested in the game and it is my opinion that this clouds objectivity. For example, if soe didn't continually act in this fashion you wouldn't have to classify people are true loyal fans and make unspoken comments about those not in your camp of thought being somehow untrue or unloyal.
Don't you find it strange that you choose to use words like true and loyal in a topic about a company that is being questioned about their truth and loyalty to their playerbase.
Can you at least admit soe has once again acted unethical? Maybe that they lied and also broke promises again? How about that station cash offers items that would normally be added for free to the game, but now cost money? or that soe did not talk to their playerbase when designing this like they have promised so many times in the past? how about that station cash is not a benefit to players.
Like I said above, you do a fine job of dancing around the heart of the issue here. I have heard some fine discussion about how you like the station cash, how soe needs money, how this will eventually make a fine business model for the play station and other mmos that are not released yet. None of which addresses what is happening and seems more like rationalization created to overlook the obvious.
Daff why do you need to repsond to my long rant at Guillight it was directed at him and not you. I used the word 'Loyal" in response to Guillight's holding it up as some type of trophy that he has earned by not supporting an item mall and how his loyal friends all quit over it. Then you take an edit out of context to make your point not the point it was intended for. Why is it important to you that I admit something that you believe and I do not? I am not overlooking anything we simply see with different eyes. My response had nothing to do with you.
Comments
Why do I feel they needed to discuss this with the players?
How many times has soe promised to communicate better with their customers? How many times has smed promised not to do these types of things without listening to you and everyone else who pays them money for their service. I am talking about direct to community pleas by smed and their leadership promising to do this. How many times does he have to talk about past failures and directly state that they didn't listen to the customers.
You are right in a technical sense that soe owns the game and is free to do whatever they want with it, but as history proves that is not only a losing formula for them it also drives away their playerbase. Which is usually followed by smed and company grovelling for forgivness with promises in hand about how it will not happen again and they are sorry.
What you so easily dismiss as business is textbook case of bad customer service. It is disrespecting your customers. Why do you think this 'awesome' game can't muster more people in a market saturated with people desperate for a new game?
The fact is soe lied, again, about not putting real money transaction into the game.
They lied, again, about listening to their customer base.
They dismissed their entire playerbase as unimportant by doing this and are in fact using them as test subjects. These changes are not done to better serve you or anyone else. It is to use a dying mmo in the hopes it betters their future games which many of the people here may never even play. Is that how you think a service based company should view their customers... as test subjects?
Where you see me as being emotional I see you as being indifferent and filled with apathy. There is no plausible way to say this is not bad customer service and terrible business practice. Yet you keep dancing very eloquently around those as if they are minor issues and there is something more important to discuss like consoles and future mmos. For soe this may be true, but that does not change how this affect thier current customers. Something they have a long track record of ignoring in favor of the potential customer.
For the record, I really don't expect soe to discuss anything like this with the playerbase, because I don't expect them to have ethics of any measurable degree. I fully expect them to take actions exactly how they did this. Nothing has changed and nothing would indicate that they plan to change. Why should they when they have a small group of people who empower them to do these things while turning a blind eye to those it forces out.
Edit: it is a scam. This content was already payed for by subscription fees and is only being removed with the express intention to make more money for the same amount of effort. That is pretty much the definition of a scam. It just isn't the largest scam in the world, but the size doesn't change the very nature of what it is. It is more akin to a tax on ignorance.
Ok, gotta make a short post because I am sitting in class right now..
But as for lying, again, I recall this...and NGE in SWG... I really don't recall them consistantly making changes like this and screwing people over and over again. I see this as their second slip up.
I hardly view their customer service as being particularly bad. When I have had to deal with them when I had issues in the past, I got into contact with someone almost immedietly. They worked with me for as long as it took to completely solve the problem.
And, again I will point this out, the items on the marketplace are not old stuff that SOE pulled from the realm of free and threw into their station cash system. It is all new things that they made specifically for the marketplace.
EDIT: One more thing to add...: EQ2 is hardly a dying game, not sure what makes you think it is.
Oh for gods sakes... its just a cashshop, they haven't completely changed everything about the game like what happened to SWG. Get over it already.
I agree with that... it was just being use before as a complete change of the game, I don't find it to be anything that major.
Daff has asked what is the line SOE would cross that would get me to leave. Really as long as I am enjoying EQ2 there is no line. However this might cause me to leave. I am very hopeful and excited about this. As much as I love EQ2 and WoW Iam looking for new experiences.
www.swtor.com/media/vidcasts/devdispatch001
Yep its a shame alright. It made my decision not to ever go back to EQ2, just like how I will never go back to WoW after they added in game items that are bought with real world money through their card game. It really surprised me how few people pitched a fit about that. To me that is the sign that Blizzard is following the same path to RMT.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
EQ2 as a game has passed its peak some time ago and is on a downward trend. I'm not saying the game is dead now or closing down soon, but it is not growing anymore and hasn't for some time. Soe realizes that, which is why they didn't bother asking for player input on cash shops, because frankly you don't matter enough compared to the potential customer of the future.
As for items not being new. Think about this. The same programmers are making the cash shop items that are making the normal in game items. Everything those developers made prior to the cash shop went into the game as part of the subscription fee. 100% of their subscription funded development time went right back into the game. Now unless there is some sort of new math for keeping track of time, those devs are spending time making items as strickly cash shop only. That time used to be spent 100% for subscription/expansion updates, but now it isn't. Everything that goes into the cash shop would normally be free with an active account. The only reason it is for sale is because soe wants more money.
See it now? Same people, same effort, less content unless you pay more on a per item basis.
As for lying. These are just off the top of my head.
They promised to work on the combat rebalance based on player feedback instead of expansions. All the while talking about progress they pulled almost the entire live team to make the expansion.
Combat upgrade is here to stay, while they are working on the nge.
The complete package of the nge to so many degrees
No RMT in everquest games, hello station cash
Surprising EQ2 with station exchange(which was originally going into all/most servers, but people actually stood up to soe *GASP*). To bad you can't read about that, because they deleted the whole forum where they corraled all the discussion. Any bets the same happens here in a few months.
Several instance of GMs breaking rules to help their ingame friends. Instead of fixing player submitted bug reports, gms used those exploits to get their ingame guild/friend legendary items. Things of that nature.
The infamous 'guild summit' where soe had to fly out actual players in a public relations stunt to avoid the player boycott of their next expansion, because the last one was so bug ridden it made playing the game terrible.
Fiery avenger is in the game, jedi are in the game, froglocs are in the game and countless other promises of things that are in the game or working that haven't even been finished yet. How many zones in planes of power were intentionally broken, because they just were not finished yet.
The list is actually pretty long if you know the history.
Why do I feel they needed to discuss this with the players?
How many times has soe promised to communicate better with their customers? How many times has smed promised not to do these types of things without listening to you and everyone else who pays them money for their service. I am talking about direct to community pleas by smed and their leadership promising to do this. How many times does he have to talk about past failures and directly state that they didn't listen to the customers.
You are right in a technical sense that soe owns the game and is free to do whatever they want with it, but as history proves that is not only a losing formula for them it also drives away their playerbase. Which is usually followed by smed and company grovelling for forgivness with promises in hand about how it will not happen again and they are sorry.
What you so easily dismiss as business is textbook case of bad customer service. It is disrespecting your customers. Why do you think this 'awesome' game can't muster more people in a market saturated with people desperate for a new game?
The fact is soe lied, again, about not putting real money transaction into the game.
They lied, again, about listening to their customer base.
They dismissed their entire playerbase as unimportant by doing this and are in fact using them as test subjects. These changes are not done to better serve you or anyone else. It is to use a dying mmo in the hopes it betters their future games which many of the people here may never even play. Is that how you think a service based company should view their customers... as test subjects?
Where you see me as being emotional I see you as being indifferent and filled with apathy. There is no plausible way to say this is not bad customer service and terrible business practice. Yet you keep dancing very eloquently around those as if they are minor issues and there is something more important to discuss like consoles and future mmos. For soe this may be true, but that does not change how this affect thier current customers. Something they have a long track record of ignoring in favor of the potential customer.
For the record, I really don't expect soe to discuss anything like this with the playerbase, because I don't expect them to have ethics of any measurable degree. I fully expect them to take actions exactly how they did this. Nothing has changed and nothing would indicate that they plan to change. Why should they when they have a small group of people who empower them to do these things while turning a blind eye to those it forces out.
Edit: it is a scam. This content was already payed for by subscription fees and is only being removed with the express intention to make more money for the same amount of effort. That is pretty much the definition of a scam. It just isn't the largest scam in the world, but the size doesn't change the very nature of what it is. It is more akin to a tax on ignorance.
Exactly,
People have forgotten the definition of scam and what it encompasses. Scam comes in various ways and the Cash shop is one of them. Just like the NGE was.
The only people that don't care about the Cash Shop and wave us off as <fill in yourself> are the ones that never cared about Fluff items in the first place.
Me, but especially my girlfriend cared a lot about fluff items in EverQuest2.
And so a lot of friends of ours. All who have quit since the Cash Shop.
People who loved housing, decorating, all cosmetic armor to change looks regularly, aquiring fluff pets and other fluff stuff through event quests, etc.
And you would be suprised about how many people care for all this so called fluff.
All who played EverQuest 2 since release. Never cared about RAID'ing, but more about the questing, exploring, crafting and housing, decorating, cosmetics, etc.
Because what is fluff to you is not fluff to us!
What is the definition of fluff? Just because it has no stats on it?
For all those people like us, loyal EQ2 customers for years, this Cash Shop was a BIG slap in our face!
For US this was a Radical change in our Game Experience!! Not for you maybe, but for US!!
To continue enjoying the game like we have done for years and paid our share of monthly fees and expansion fees for, we now are also forced to pay REAL money on the Cash Shop!
Because from now on, this will be the only way for US to gain new so called Fluff items. Items that are NOT Fluff to us, but were always a BIG part of our Game Experience.
So yes.... after all these years... we feel SCAMMED!
Especially because the CEO himself promissed us not so long ago that this kind of crap would never be done to their existing games!
My feelings are well know on this issue. I am assuming this poster has read them because I know everyone reads all the post in a thread to full understand what they are posting on. Right? eccoton is meant to be the type that fills in the <blank>. After reading this post I am glad to be in that group. I have made it clear I like the item mall. So indeed this post is direct at "my type" you know the not truely loyal EQ2 player.
I have been posting here for 4 years often with a lot of passion for my opinion. Not once has any post actually made me mad even the ones that attack me by name. Well there is a first for everything. Thank god you made it clear what people like you are. I am so glad I am a <fill in the blank>! I find this response the most insulting post here. The elitest, I am better then you, attitude speaks volume the the "Us" players it refers to. I support the item mall so I am not one of the "Us" neither am I loyal or as good of a player then this poster and his friends who care. You see I do not "care" about fluff items. It is impossible since I bought a house pet from the item mall.
Poster, How old is your account? Mine is 1912 days old. I was also in the beta test. In over 4 years of subscribing to EQ2 I have played every single day but missed less then a dozen. I missed a few days when I moved and had surgery. After surgey (life threatening) all I wanted to do was play EQ2 as sson as I could. Now somedays may have only been an hour but many were 4+ hours. Basically I have played EQ2 everyday for over 4 years. And you? I have maxed my factions with almost every faction group in the game except those that go negative when you advance in an opposing one. The poster knows how hard that is and the dedication that takes. I wonder if he has that amount of disloyalty in him. I have completed all the L&L quests in the game on 4 different characters. All heroic quest on one character. I support 7, 5 room houses all decorated with fluff I have spent years working to get. And you? Hmmm I have paid for all my expansions too. Wow all these years, man that must be tough sounds like you have really suffered all these years to prove you are a "loyal" player. I am a raider so I must not be loyal like those that don't raid and only collect "fluff". This poster is really "loyal", someday maybe I might be just as loyal. I have spent endless hours posting about EQ2 and helping players to understand and enjoy it more. And You? Not bad for the disloyal EQ2 player.
I am adding a few house shots I just took for this post, you may recognize some of the items. Being such a loyal player you will note how hard some of that fluff was to get.
My aquarium. There are no aquariums in the game so I made it out of other items like paintings, toys, plants, and pools.
My garden I am very proud of, many of the items here took me years to get. I spend hours decorating in fact my guild jokes about it. They made me chief decorated of our massive guildhall and for me that is endgame joy. I am all about the "fluff" item the poster claim I do not repsect. After all I bought a house pet.
I wanted to add a close-up of one of my table to show my love for the tiny items that many over look. Again the poster will note some of these items are very rare. Being so loyal he must appreciate the effort but I doubt it. Remember I like the marketplace as just another way to enjoy the game I am totally disloyal.
More then item malls it is players like the "Us" that ruin mmos. Every game has them. You no the type, they hang around populated areas like the broker in South Qeynos showing off their elite gear and mounts like they are some sort of gaming god. You know the types that do not group with you for fun because your sword is 2 dps less then their sword. You know the "loyal" type that turn down their nose on other players because they my not have worked hard enough in the game to be worthy of standing next to. The type of play intolerant to new players or less skilled player who kick someone out of a group for making a mistake and getting the group killed. You know the type that do not remember this is a game and for everyone regardless of their play style. You know the type that will not invited a well meaning but weak player into their guild because that player is not good enough. These type of players hurt EQ2 way more then any item mall regardless of the type of items being sold. That is not "loyal" that is elitism. That is what hurts an mmo not a couple bucks for a "Fluff" item. Where I come from the "quitters" are the disloyal. The ones who stay even in tough time and soldier on are how we view loyalty. It is funny that so many "quitters" claim to have the best interest of EQ2 in mind. They do this by quitting? That I do not understand.
Edit: Yes I do realize the poster was not talking about me personally but as a loyal EQ2 fan I am insulted for all of "us" who truely love and support this game.
Once again, I'm with Eccoton.
To the OP: Personally I'm glad you're making a fuss about this. I think it's a terrible idea for P2P games. The argument that peeps buy things anyway on ebay and such is not convincing for me. When that behavior is against the official TOS far less peeps actually do it, and the majority of the player community will be disdainful of such behavior. After all a common insult on P2P games is some comment like "How much did you pay for your character"? Not to mention as others have said previously free content will no longer be free. I read awhile back that Blizzard was gonna go this route too. If there's enough negative attention and cancellations at SOE maybe they'll reconsider. If not I"ll most likely quit unless they make it F2P or provide seperate servers as SOE was supposed to do. What 's the point in having a game built on leveling and effort to aquire items if you can just buy all those things and have them instantly? It essentially makes the game world meaningless.
This is nothing new they have been doing it a long time. They had the exchange servers in eq2 and also the legends server in eq1 where it costed 45 dollars a month but there were live events every day and you could get unique gear and bring it to your regular server.
There is a lot I could comment on in your post, but this will sum it up just fine.
Yes you are loyal and a true fan of the game. I think it is that exact reason you work so hard to justify the fact the you not only support, but defend this companies bad business practices. You illustrate rather clearly that some people are personally invested in the game and it is my opinion that this clouds objectivity. For example, if soe didn't continually act in this fashion you wouldn't have to classify people are true loyal fans and make unspoken comments about those not in your camp of thought being somehow untrue or unloyal.
Don't you find it strange that you choose to use words like true and loyal in a topic about a company that is being questioned about their truth and loyalty to their playerbase.
Can you at least admit soe has once again acted unethical? Maybe that they lied and also broke promises again? How about that station cash offers items that would normally be added for free to the game, but now cost money? or that soe did not talk to their playerbase when designing this like they have promised so many times in the past? how about that station cash is not a benefit to players.
Like I said above, you do a fine job of dancing around the heart of the issue here. I have heard some fine discussion about how you like the station cash, how soe needs money, how this will eventually make a fine business model for the play station and other mmos that are not released yet. None of which addresses what is happening and seems more like rationalization created to overlook the obvious.
Daff why do you need to repsond to my long rant at Guillight it was directed at him and not you. I used the word 'Loyal" in response to Guillight's holding it up as some type of trophy that he has earned by not supporting an item mall and how his loyal friends all quit over it. Then you take an edit out of context to make your point not the point it was intended for. Why is it important to you that I admit something that you believe and I do not? I am not overlooking anything we simply see with different eyes. My response had nothing to do with you.