His comment would have had some clout, is MMO's were some sort of sport, they are not, they are entertainment and for fun. Not a test of skill, sportsmanship, and fame.
Comparing them to spots if laughable, and per of the root of the issue.
Not at all. Recreational fishing is a hobby, not a sport. The same holds true for pick-up basketball. These are recreational activities. Some people play them competitively, but some people play games competitively as well, of course -- but my words about hobby fishing and recreational basketball are directly applicable to the gaming hobby.
His comment would have had some clout, is MMO's were some sort of sport, they are not, they are entertainment and for fun. Not a test of skill, sportsmanship, and fame.
Comparing them to spots if laughable, and per of the root of the issue.
Not at all. Recreational fishing is a hobby, not a sport. The same holds true for pick-up basketball. These are recreational activities. Some people play them competitively, but some people play games competitively as well, of course -- but my words about hobby fishing and recreational basketball are directly applicable to the gaming hobby.
Sure, how many lures are for sale in that hobby? How many levels of professional gear are there? How many training DvD's? How much of those hobbies are Ala-cart pricing? Do you go out and dig up the worms, or pay someone else to do it, and buy the box?
That’s right.
However, in competitive levels, there are sanctioned equipment and rules, the same goes for games with micro transactions. Consider an XP potion a handicapping. And in a PvE game, who gives a shitt? jealousy.
And again people, to many of you are confusing micro transactions with RMT items.
micro transactions are 100% about playing your way, and maximizing your fun.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
All of the responses so far are just reinforcing my point. Its jealousy, and a sever case of "keeping up with the joneses". "Oh noz, Microtransactions!!" "Oh noz, leveling is quick and fun!!" "Oh noz, death dosn't delete your player and shock your chair!!!" "Oh noz, player X has somthing i dont, and i was here from beta!!" "Oh noz, this dosnt feel enough like work!"
Also, RMT is not the same as Microtransaction,come on people.
All the pro-RMT repsonses are just reinforcing my point.
"Oh noz, he has more time to play then me! not fairz!!"
"Oh noz, his character is better than mine because he earned his gear!!!"
"Oh noz, I have to actually put effort in to be good!!"
"Oh noz, I don't get stuff handed to me on a platter!!"
See, I can simplify your sides arguments into ridiculous sentences a pre-schooler could write too.
What the hell. I would agree if the items we were talking about were nothing more than fluff.
xp potions are not fluff.
Ahh, I don't know why I am even bothering to talk to you Bloodworth, you havent the ability to absorb and comprehend the points other are making anyhow.
Sorry unlike you I play the Game for Fun. I get no "Achievement" out of it I get no feeling of worth from a video game. I play to have fun and enjoy my time in the game.
Sorry that players like me bother your sense of self worth. Luckily I get my achievement in real life and my feeling of self worth in real life as well.
What you want is basically, "The Sims" online. Fluff for clothing; housing; 1001 pets; glowing hands. Not game play, pure bargin basement stuff from the dev's incomplete projects libary.
Go get The Sims, and enjoy yourself. Let gamers play games that require something more than decorating themselves and their homes!
Yeah, I have to also comment on your quote:
MMO doesn''t mean only Groups/Guilds/PvP gaming.
It’s many people playing *different* game styles.
Do you really believe this or does it just sound good? There are people who would like nothing better than to go out in the wilderness in a game world, set a campfire and start roleplaying or telling stories. There are people who don't really care about the quests or combat but prefer crafting and selling.
And, there are people who enjoy being able to customize their avatars to create the hero/character they want. I"m actually one of those people but of course their are more. Heck, look at City of Heroes/Villains and you will get an idea as to how much people enjoy the customization.
As many games just do not offer great customization because devs are working on other things it could be a nice incentive to offer cosemtic or housing and pet options at a small cost which could make it worthwhile to the devs and give the players somethng that they want.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All of the responses so far are just reinforcing my point. Its jealousy, and a sever case of "keeping up with the joneses". "Oh noz, Microtransactions!!" "Oh noz, leveling is quick and fun!!" "Oh noz, death dosn't delete your player and shock your chair!!!" "Oh noz, player X has somthing i dont, and i was here from beta!!" "Oh noz, this dosnt feel enough like work!"
Also, RMT is not the same as Microtransaction,come on people.
All the pro-RMT repsonses are just reinforcing my point.
"Oh noz, he has more time to play then me! not fairz!!"
"Oh noz, his character is better than mine because he earned his gear!!!"
"Oh noz, I have to actually put effort in to be good!!"
"Oh noz, I don't get stuff handed to me on a platter!!"
See, I can simplify your sides arguments into ridiculous sentences a pre-schooler could write too.
What the hell. I would agree if the items we were talking about were nothing more than fluff.
xp potions are not fluff.
Ahh, I don't know why I am even bothering to talk to you Bloodworth, you havent the ability to absorb and comprehend the points other are making anyhow.
I don’t know either. Try making a point, instead of a personal attack. Everyone else in the thread seems to be doing just fine, and we are having a heated, yet civil discussion of differing views.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by vesavius xp potions are not fluff. Ahh, I don't know why I am even bothering to talk to you Bloodworth, you havent the ability to absorb and comprehend the points other are making anyhow.
Understand that those who defend RMT are often those who engage in it, and/or buy/sell gold (or for Cabe, accounts for RL money). It's a business for them, so anything about ethics and gamemanship makes zero sense for them. They're only in it to make a profit, and will be thanking companies like SOE for lining their pockets even more.
Sure, how many lures are for sale in that hobby? How many levels of professional gear are there? How many training DvD's? How much of those hobbies are Ala-cart pricing? Do you go out and dig up the worms, or pay someone else to do it, and buy the box?
That’s right.
However, in competitive levels, there are sanctioned equipment and rules, the same goes for games with micro transactions. Consider an XP potion a handicapping. And in a PvE game, who gives a shitt? jealousy. And again people, to many of you are confusing micro transactions with RMT items. micro transactions are 100% about playing your way, and maximizing your fun.
But my point about fishing is you can go and buy your lures and your poles and your training DvDs and what have you -- but you still need to make the effort to fish. No DVD will make you a good fisherman, nor will any lure. You can't use those things to shortcut your way past other people in terms of your experience at the activity, whereas with microtransactions you do precisely that.
Microtransactions are about establishing a separate ruleset for people who want to spend money to buy their way into that separate ruleset. It isn't about jealousy (I certainly am among those who have more money than time) -- it's about the equity of having two different experience curves in one game. I don't find that fun or entertaining -- I find it inequitable.
Ahh, I don't know why I am even bothering to talk to you Bloodworth, you havent the ability to absorb and comprehend the points other are making anyhow.
Understand that those who defend RMT are often those who engage in it, and/or buy/sell gold (or for Cabe, accounts for RL money). It's a business for them, so anything about ethics and gamemanship makes zero sense for them. They're only in it to make a profit, and will be thanking companies like SOE for lining their pockets even more.
MICROTRANSACTIONS ARE NOT RMT!
Microtransactions are small transactions, perhaps of the order of a cent. They are being considered for digital content on the web (a magazine selling an article (unbundled) rather than an entire issue (bundled with additional information that may not be of interest to the consumer). This may then open up additional revenue streams for the content providers.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
With the latest development with SOE's SC and then Blizzard's $15 appearance change, one thing is for certain, MMOs are changing. I have seen a lot of outrage (at least on this site) and I ask what is the issue? I am not saying haters are right or wrong, but at the same time why is this such an issue among so many people? I understand that there may be a monthly fee already, but what is such a hassle that having people be able to buy things in game they otherwise wouldn't be able to obtain without sometimes godly time invested or otherwise. There are some pretty good pros to being able to RMT in games, such as the "normal" Joe who works a full week with a family and so forth can't afford the time to invest to get that oh so rare item. He spends more time working in real life life to earn that little extra cash and can afford to buy what others can spend in personal time to achieve. I see it actually somewhat balanced. I, like probably many people who have (and still do) play WoW have bought gold at least once. The way I saw it was I worked a few extra hours in a week of RL to buy something others will spend time in game to work for. Now it seems as if right now all these RMTs are novelty and I don't think anyone should be upset about an appearance change, or a different looking item. Givin time, I am sure these companies are going to get much deeper into the game like really usefull items and such, but I ask, if someone can invest in a game as much as someone can invest in thier job or otherwise be able to obtain the same status, why does it warrent such an outrage?
This is an issue to me because the RMT necessitates certain design choices that compromise the integrity of the game. You say that the RMT is good for the normal Joe who can't get that rare item any other way. But to me, the question we should be asking is why are game items so rare and unavailable in the first place? They don't have to be. A robust crafting and manufacturing system and in-game economy could provide everything the servers need, without having to run epic instances for hours with a raiding guild on TS.
Such a system adds to the game, and is actually the system most MMO players prefer. The problem is that a full virtual world MMO doesn't work with RMT. In order to make money off of RMT, you need to have a game that emphasizes near-unobtainable looted gear that is only accessable to a precious few; a game built on envy instead of equity.
So the question we should be asking isn't "why can't we have average Joes purchasing the things they can't obtain through paying for items with a credit card?" The question we should be asking is, "why can't we design a game where average Joes don't have to go to the item shop to enjoy themselves?"
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
With the latest development with SOE's SC and then Blizzard's $15 appearance change, one thing is for certain, MMOs are changing. I have seen a lot of outrage (at least on this site) and I ask what is the issue? I am not saying haters are right or wrong, but at the same time why is this such an issue among so many people? I understand that there may be a monthly fee already, but what is such a hassle that having people be able to buy things in game they otherwise wouldn't be able to obtain without sometimes godly time invested or otherwise. There are some pretty good pros to being able to RMT in games, such as the "normal" Joe who works a full week with a family and so forth can't afford the time to invest to get that oh so rare item. He spends more time working in real life life to earn that little extra cash and can afford to buy what others can spend in personal time to achieve. I see it actually somewhat balanced. I, like probably many people who have (and still do) play WoW have bought gold at least once. The way I saw it was I worked a few extra hours in a week of RL to buy something others will spend time in game to work for. Now it seems as if right now all these RMTs are novelty and I don't think anyone should be upset about an appearance change, or a different looking item. Givin time, I am sure these companies are going to get much deeper into the game like really usefull items and such, but I ask, if someone can invest in a game as much as someone can invest in thier job or otherwise be able to obtain the same status, why does it warrent such an outrage?
This is an issue to me because the RMT necessitates certain design choices that compromise the integrity of the game. You say that the RMT is good for the normal Joe who can't get that rare item any other way. But to me, the question we should be asking is why are game items so rare and unavailable in the first place? They don't have to be. A robust crafting and manufacturing system and in-game economy could provide everything the servers need, without having to run epic instances for hours with a raiding guild on TS.
Such a system adds to the game, and is actually the system most MMO players prefer. The problem is that a full virtual world MMO doesn't work with RMT. In order to make money off of RMT, you need to have a game that emphasizes near-unobtainable looted gear that is only accessable to a precious few; a game built on envy instead of equity.
So the question we should be asking isn't "why can't we have average Joes purchasing the things they can't obtain through paying for items with a credit card?" The question we should be asking is, "why can't we design a game where average Joes don't have to go to the item shop to enjoy themselves?"
This is exactly right. But anything that takes the advantage away from the current crop of "Power Players" is considered a bad thing or dumbing down the genre.
You get responses like " the me generation" or "everything on a silver platter".
Well guess what if my options are not to get it at all or to have it on a silver platter then please pass the platter my way.
Why do only one playstyle (massive game time investment) get to experience the full content of the game?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
Depends on the game, but no SOE is not doing this, and people are forgetting this. (most of the threads started because of SOE)
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
I'll turn around your question: Why should someone have a different XP curve because they spend money to buy that XP curve?
Originally posted by Cabe2323 This is exactly right. But anything that takes the advantage away from the current crop of "Power Players" is considered a bad thing or dumbing down the genre. You get responses like " the me generation" or "everything on a silver platter".
Well guess what if my options are not to get it at all or to have it on a silver platter then please pass the platter my way. Why do only one playstyle (massive game time investment) get to experience the full content of the game?
You sell game accounts, so yeah, you will agree on anything to line your own wallet.
Hells bells on game ethics and gamemanship. It's just money to you, not gaming itself.
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
If it would be so simple as you claim not many people would be offended by this.
First, the way SoE just sprung this on anyone, in a game which was up till LoN completely RMT free, is pretty disgracefull. Not in the least because they have promised on many occasions they would never do this.
It's a matter of principle and how you treat players.
Second, XP potions in itself make it so guilds will unwillingly force players to buy these because in EQ1 it is quite common to give DKP bonuses to players who lvl up the fastest or who make AA.
For casuals it's not as easy as in WoW to get to a point where you are capable of raiding or to be at a point where you are capable to progress to grouping with others at the high-end where most players are.
On top of XP potions, there are also a mana regen clicky which instantly refills your mana and HP clickies available in EQ which completely change how powerfull you are in-game.
This directly influences design decisions and content design because a lot of beta testers happen to have these clickies and RMT items.
It also influences your recruiting chances in a guild. Sometimes unspoken. It will also influence your opportunity to group when the playing field amongs players of the same level is not equal anymore.
Third, to some players graphics is important. When you are only restricted to old mounts from years back and the only cool weapon graphics and mounts are coming from RMT and there is no way to get them without paying for them, it influences how you enjoy the game when you care about in-game graphics.
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
I'll turn around your question: Why should someone have a different XP curve because they spend money to buy that XP curve?
Because that is the way they want to play the game. It's not like it actually affects me in a serious, negative way.
What most people are forgetting is that mmorpg's are a timesink, nothing more. The whole sense of "achievement" is just a mindset in your head. No, it did not take skill to get your uber sword of awesomeness +8 and No, it did not take skill to get to the max level. It took time, nothing more.
There is an addictive thing about improving a character and MMO companies have been exploiting this for years. By making long leveling curves they keep people playing for months to come. If you increase the leveling speed, the players will level up faster but they will also hit the endgame faster and thus quit sooner. Having a MT remedies this. The fact you now attract people who are normally opposed to long leveling combined with charging for XP boosts, you'll make up for the lesser profits of some players who quit early.
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
PvE games have always been competitive for achievers. Item centric games are designed to be competitive. Where the hell have you been?
This is exactly right. But anything that takes the advantage away from the current crop of "Power Players" is considered a bad thing or dumbing down the genre.
You get responses like " the me generation" or "everything on a silver platter".
Well guess what if my options are not to get it at all or to have it on a silver platter then please pass the platter my way.
Why do only one playstyle (massive game time investment) get to experience the full content of the game?
You sell game accounts, so yeah, you will agree on anything to line your own wallet.
Hells bells on game ethics and gamemanship. It's just money to you, not gaming itself.
Gamemanship? Is that why you guys are so bent up? Are videogames your sport or something?
I am sorry if people who were unable to participate in RL competitions (due to always losing) feel the need to turn video games into some type of competition where they can finally feel some self worth.
It isn't a matter of gamemanship to me or anything else and I haven't personally made money off of MMOs since Asheron's Call 1 which was almost 10 years ago. So lining my pockets somehow isn't the motivitation either.
It is just a difference in how we see the game. I see it as a game meant to be fun and when it stops being fun then thats that.
You see it as some proof that you have self worth in the world and you look upon your character with some type of pride in what you have created.
If everyone played games like they were games then it wouldn't be an issue what anyone else was doing. It doesn't affect you at all.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I can agree that retro fitting a subscription based game to add on top a cash item shop is a little inappropriate.
However in the case of eq2, they already had it in the forum of the ADVENTURE PACKS.
Micro transactions for the most part have about as much impact as an in game-item in a collectors edition box set.
There isn’t one that hasn’t launched recently that included a cloak of +5% XP or some such ebullient.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Gamemanship? Is that why you guys are so bent up? Are videogames your sport or something?
Speechless. Totally speechless.
To think there's a reason why there's at least 2 gaming leagues out there for about every competitive game, and the dude asks "gamemanship"?
Nevermind, why there's leaderboards in even MMOs?
Let alone why there's even things like "top raiding guilds", or even the PvP player with the best kill streak?
...
For Catassing. Somthing that is not why the majority of players play.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
PvE games have always been competitive for achievers. Item centric games are designed to be competitive. Where the hell have you been?
No reasonable game company is going to reject a MT system just because a bunch of nerds want to have a PVE achievement which most likely has very little to do with the item shop anyway as PVE achievements are often related at endgame and i'm pretty sure a magical XP potion isn't going to do a whole lot for your character when you're max level.
The thing with PVE achievements is that people care exactly once. the first time. Whenever someone or a group of people achieve something once, people take notice. Whenever it happens the 2nd time, nobody cares. It's completely illogical to remove a system that could benefit thousands of players in favor for a very small group of people of 5 ~ 60 man or whatever the size of modern EQ raids are.
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
I'll turn around your question: Why should someone have a different XP curve because they spend money to buy that XP curve?
Because that is the way they want to play the game. It's not like it actually affects me in a serious, negative way.
What most people are forgetting is that mmorpg's are a timesink, nothing more. The whole sense of "achievement" is just a mindset in your head. No, it did not take skill to get your uber sword of awesomeness +8 and No, it did not take skill to get to the max level. It took time, nothing more.
There is an addictive thing about improving a character and MMO companies have been exploiting this for years. By making long leveling curves they keep people playing for months to come. If you increase the leveling speed, the players will level up faster but they will also hit the endgame faster and thus quit sooner. Having a MT remedies this. The fact you now attract people who are normally opposed to long leveling combined with charging for XP boosts, you'll make up for the lesser profits of some players who quit early.
At the price of people playing two different games, when it comes to the XP curve.
As I said above, I'm a 20-hour a week gamer, so I should love this. But I don't. Instead I'll be avoiding the MT-based games if they do arrive in a big way, simple as that.
What most people are forgetting is that mmorpg's are a timesink, nothing more. The whole sense of "achievement" is just a mindset in your head. No, it did not take skill to get your uber sword of awesomeness +8 and No, it did not take skill to get to the max level. It took time, nothing more.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Whenever it happens the 2nd time, nobody cares. It's completely illogical to remove a system that could benefit thousands of players in favor for a very small group of people of 5 ~ 60 man or whatever the size of modern EQ raids are.
Just for reference. They are 54 man in EQ1 since a good amount of years, it used to be 72.
Comments
Not at all. Recreational fishing is a hobby, not a sport. The same holds true for pick-up basketball. These are recreational activities. Some people play them competitively, but some people play games competitively as well, of course -- but my words about hobby fishing and recreational basketball are directly applicable to the gaming hobby.
Not at all. Recreational fishing is a hobby, not a sport. The same holds true for pick-up basketball. These are recreational activities. Some people play them competitively, but some people play games competitively as well, of course -- but my words about hobby fishing and recreational basketball are directly applicable to the gaming hobby.
Sure, how many lures are for sale in that hobby? How many levels of professional gear are there? How many training DvD's? How much of those hobbies are Ala-cart pricing? Do you go out and dig up the worms, or pay someone else to do it, and buy the box?
That’s right.
However, in competitive levels, there are sanctioned equipment and rules, the same goes for games with micro transactions. Consider an XP potion a handicapping. And in a PvE game, who gives a shitt? jealousy.
And again people, to many of you are confusing micro transactions with RMT items.
micro transactions are 100% about playing your way, and maximizing your fun.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
All the pro-RMT repsonses are just reinforcing my point.
"Oh noz, he has more time to play then me! not fairz!!"
"Oh noz, his character is better than mine because he earned his gear!!!"
"Oh noz, I have to actually put effort in to be good!!"
"Oh noz, I don't get stuff handed to me on a platter!!"
See, I can simplify your sides arguments into ridiculous sentences a pre-schooler could write too.
What the hell. I would agree if the items we were talking about were nothing more than fluff.
xp potions are not fluff.
Ahh, I don't know why I am even bothering to talk to you Bloodworth, you havent the ability to absorb and comprehend the points other are making anyhow.
What you want is basically, "The Sims" online. Fluff for clothing; housing; 1001 pets; glowing hands. Not game play, pure bargin basement stuff from the dev's incomplete projects libary.
Go get The Sims, and enjoy yourself. Let gamers play games that require something more than decorating themselves and their homes!
Yeah, I have to also comment on your quote:
MMO doesn''t mean only Groups/Guilds/PvP gaming.
It’s many people playing *different* game styles.
Do you really believe this or does it just sound good? There are people who would like nothing better than to go out in the wilderness in a game world, set a campfire and start roleplaying or telling stories. There are people who don't really care about the quests or combat but prefer crafting and selling.
And, there are people who enjoy being able to customize their avatars to create the hero/character they want. I"m actually one of those people but of course their are more. Heck, look at City of Heroes/Villains and you will get an idea as to how much people enjoy the customization.
As many games just do not offer great customization because devs are working on other things it could be a nice incentive to offer cosemtic or housing and pet options at a small cost which could make it worthwhile to the devs and give the players somethng that they want.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All the pro-RMT repsonses are just reinforcing my point.
"Oh noz, he has more time to play then me! not fairz!!"
"Oh noz, his character is better than mine because he earned his gear!!!"
"Oh noz, I have to actually put effort in to be good!!"
"Oh noz, I don't get stuff handed to me on a platter!!"
See, I can simplify your sides arguments into ridiculous sentences a pre-schooler could write too.
What the hell. I would agree if the items we were talking about were nothing more than fluff.
xp potions are not fluff.
Ahh, I don't know why I am even bothering to talk to you Bloodworth, you havent the ability to absorb and comprehend the points other are making anyhow.
I don’t know either. Try making a point, instead of a personal attack. Everyone else in the thread seems to be doing just fine, and we are having a heated, yet civil discussion of differing views.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Understand that those who defend RMT are often those who engage in it, and/or buy/sell gold (or for Cabe, accounts for RL money). It's a business for them, so anything about ethics and gamemanship makes zero sense for them. They're only in it to make a profit, and will be thanking companies like SOE for lining their pockets even more.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
But my point about fishing is you can go and buy your lures and your poles and your training DvDs and what have you -- but you still need to make the effort to fish. No DVD will make you a good fisherman, nor will any lure. You can't use those things to shortcut your way past other people in terms of your experience at the activity, whereas with microtransactions you do precisely that.
Microtransactions are about establishing a separate ruleset for people who want to spend money to buy their way into that separate ruleset. It isn't about jealousy (I certainly am among those who have more money than time) -- it's about the equity of having two different experience curves in one game. I don't find that fun or entertaining -- I find it inequitable.
Understand that those who defend RMT are often those who engage in it, and/or buy/sell gold (or for Cabe, accounts for RL money). It's a business for them, so anything about ethics and gamemanship makes zero sense for them. They're only in it to make a profit, and will be thanking companies like SOE for lining their pockets even more.
MICROTRANSACTIONS ARE NOT RMT!
Microtransactions are small transactions, perhaps of the order of a cent. They are being considered for digital content on the web (a magazine selling an article (unbundled) rather than an entire issue (bundled with additional information that may not be of interest to the consumer). This may then open up additional revenue streams for the content providers.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
This is an issue to me because the RMT necessitates certain design choices that compromise the integrity of the game. You say that the RMT is good for the normal Joe who can't get that rare item any other way. But to me, the question we should be asking is why are game items so rare and unavailable in the first place? They don't have to be. A robust crafting and manufacturing system and in-game economy could provide everything the servers need, without having to run epic instances for hours with a raiding guild on TS.
Such a system adds to the game, and is actually the system most MMO players prefer. The problem is that a full virtual world MMO doesn't work with RMT. In order to make money off of RMT, you need to have a game that emphasizes near-unobtainable looted gear that is only accessable to a precious few; a game built on envy instead of equity.
So the question we should be asking isn't "why can't we have average Joes purchasing the things they can't obtain through paying for items with a credit card?" The question we should be asking is, "why can't we design a game where average Joes don't have to go to the item shop to enjoy themselves?"
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
So is this system actually selling weapons and armor, in other words, equipment?
I skimmed over it real quick and mostly things I see are things like Experience potions. Why would you complain about that? Everquest isn't a competetive PVP game in the first place, are you seriously that obsessed with the pace someone else is leveling at?
This is an issue to me because the RMT necessitates certain design choices that compromise the integrity of the game. You say that the RMT is good for the normal Joe who can't get that rare item any other way. But to me, the question we should be asking is why are game items so rare and unavailable in the first place? They don't have to be. A robust crafting and manufacturing system and in-game economy could provide everything the servers need, without having to run epic instances for hours with a raiding guild on TS.
Such a system adds to the game, and is actually the system most MMO players prefer. The problem is that a full virtual world MMO doesn't work with RMT. In order to make money off of RMT, you need to have a game that emphasizes near-unobtainable looted gear that is only accessable to a precious few; a game built on envy instead of equity.
So the question we should be asking isn't "why can't we have average Joes purchasing the things they can't obtain through paying for items with a credit card?" The question we should be asking is, "why can't we design a game where average Joes don't have to go to the item shop to enjoy themselves?"
This is exactly right. But anything that takes the advantage away from the current crop of "Power Players" is considered a bad thing or dumbing down the genre.
You get responses like " the me generation" or "everything on a silver platter".
Well guess what if my options are not to get it at all or to have it on a silver platter then please pass the platter my way.
Why do only one playstyle (massive game time investment) get to experience the full content of the game?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Depends on the game, but no SOE is not doing this, and people are forgetting this. (most of the threads started because of SOE)
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I'll turn around your question: Why should someone have a different XP curve because they spend money to buy that XP curve?
You sell game accounts, so yeah, you will agree on anything to line your own wallet.
Hells bells on game ethics and gamemanship. It's just money to you, not gaming itself.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
If it would be so simple as you claim not many people would be offended by this.
First, the way SoE just sprung this on anyone, in a game which was up till LoN completely RMT free, is pretty disgracefull. Not in the least because they have promised on many occasions they would never do this.
It's a matter of principle and how you treat players.
Second, XP potions in itself make it so guilds will unwillingly force players to buy these because in EQ1 it is quite common to give DKP bonuses to players who lvl up the fastest or who make AA.
For casuals it's not as easy as in WoW to get to a point where you are capable of raiding or to be at a point where you are capable to progress to grouping with others at the high-end where most players are.
On top of XP potions, there are also a mana regen clicky which instantly refills your mana and HP clickies available in EQ which completely change how powerfull you are in-game.
This directly influences design decisions and content design because a lot of beta testers happen to have these clickies and RMT items.
It also influences your recruiting chances in a guild. Sometimes unspoken. It will also influence your opportunity to group when the playing field amongs players of the same level is not equal anymore.
Third, to some players graphics is important. When you are only restricted to old mounts from years back and the only cool weapon graphics and mounts are coming from RMT and there is no way to get them without paying for them, it influences how you enjoy the game when you care about in-game graphics.
I'll turn around your question: Why should someone have a different XP curve because they spend money to buy that XP curve?
Because that is the way they want to play the game. It's not like it actually affects me in a serious, negative way.
What most people are forgetting is that mmorpg's are a timesink, nothing more. The whole sense of "achievement" is just a mindset in your head. No, it did not take skill to get your uber sword of awesomeness +8 and No, it did not take skill to get to the max level. It took time, nothing more.
There is an addictive thing about improving a character and MMO companies have been exploiting this for years. By making long leveling curves they keep people playing for months to come. If you increase the leveling speed, the players will level up faster but they will also hit the endgame faster and thus quit sooner. Having a MT remedies this. The fact you now attract people who are normally opposed to long leveling combined with charging for XP boosts, you'll make up for the lesser profits of some players who quit early.
PvE games have always been competitive for achievers. Item centric games are designed to be competitive. Where the hell have you been?
You sell game accounts, so yeah, you will agree on anything to line your own wallet.
Hells bells on game ethics and gamemanship. It's just money to you, not gaming itself.
Gamemanship? Is that why you guys are so bent up? Are videogames your sport or something?
I am sorry if people who were unable to participate in RL competitions (due to always losing) feel the need to turn video games into some type of competition where they can finally feel some self worth.
It isn't a matter of gamemanship to me or anything else and I haven't personally made money off of MMOs since Asheron's Call 1 which was almost 10 years ago. So lining my pockets somehow isn't the motivitation either.
It is just a difference in how we see the game. I see it as a game meant to be fun and when it stops being fun then thats that.
You see it as some proof that you have self worth in the world and you look upon your character with some type of pride in what you have created.
If everyone played games like they were games then it wouldn't be an issue what anyone else was doing. It doesn't affect you at all.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I can agree that retro fitting a subscription based game to add on top a cash item shop is a little inappropriate.
However in the case of eq2, they already had it in the forum of the ADVENTURE PACKS.
Micro transactions for the most part have about as much impact as an in game-item in a collectors edition box set.
There isn’t one that hasn’t launched recently that included a cloak of +5% XP or some such ebullient.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Speechless. Totally speechless.
To think there's a reason why there's at least 2 gaming leagues out there for about every competitive game, and the dude asks "gamemanship"?
Nevermind, why there's leaderboards in even MMOs?
Let alone why there's even things like "top raiding guilds", or even the PvP player with the best kill streak?
...
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Speechless. Totally speechless.
To think there's a reason why there's at least 2 gaming leagues out there for about every competitive game, and the dude asks "gamemanship"?
Nevermind, why there's leaderboards in even MMOs?
Let alone why there's even things like "top raiding guilds", or even the PvP player with the best kill streak?
...
For Catassing. Somthing that is not why the majority of players play.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
PvE games have always been competitive for achievers. Item centric games are designed to be competitive. Where the hell have you been?
No reasonable game company is going to reject a MT system just because a bunch of nerds want to have a PVE achievement which most likely has very little to do with the item shop anyway as PVE achievements are often related at endgame and i'm pretty sure a magical XP potion isn't going to do a whole lot for your character when you're max level.
The thing with PVE achievements is that people care exactly once. the first time. Whenever someone or a group of people achieve something once, people take notice. Whenever it happens the 2nd time, nobody cares. It's completely illogical to remove a system that could benefit thousands of players in favor for a very small group of people of 5 ~ 60 man or whatever the size of modern EQ raids are.
I'll turn around your question: Why should someone have a different XP curve because they spend money to buy that XP curve?
Because that is the way they want to play the game. It's not like it actually affects me in a serious, negative way.
What most people are forgetting is that mmorpg's are a timesink, nothing more. The whole sense of "achievement" is just a mindset in your head. No, it did not take skill to get your uber sword of awesomeness +8 and No, it did not take skill to get to the max level. It took time, nothing more.
There is an addictive thing about improving a character and MMO companies have been exploiting this for years. By making long leveling curves they keep people playing for months to come. If you increase the leveling speed, the players will level up faster but they will also hit the endgame faster and thus quit sooner. Having a MT remedies this. The fact you now attract people who are normally opposed to long leveling combined with charging for XP boosts, you'll make up for the lesser profits of some players who quit early.
At the price of people playing two different games, when it comes to the XP curve.
As I said above, I'm a 20-hour a week gamer, so I should love this. But I don't. Instead I'll be avoiding the MT-based games if they do arrive in a big way, simple as that.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Just for reference. They are 54 man in EQ1 since a good amount of years, it used to be 72.