Update from December 2 2008. It was changed for their Cash Shop. But someone noticed they changed paragraph 12 too.
12: "We cannot ensure that your private communications and other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. Translation: The Russian mafia has broken into our computerized billing system and stolen your credit card information. You cannot hold us responsible. Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities. Translation: All your internet shopping history is being downloaded to our computers even as you read this. We will be selling it to marketing companies. Expect more spam e-mail. You expressly permit SOE to upload CPU, operating system, video card, sound card and memory information from your computer to analyze and optimize your Game experience, improve and maintain the Game and/or provide you with customer service. Furthermore, if you request any technical support, you consent to our remote accessing and review of the computer you load the Software onto for purposes of support and debugging." Translation: When you contact support you are consenting to our browsing of your operating system for unauthorized 3rd party provided software for which you can be banned. Also, if your CPU, operating system, sound card, video card, or any other aspect of your computer sucks, we will be sending that information to a 3rd party hardware provider. See above, expect more spam e-mail.
Thx for the heads up op, i just deleted VG from my pc... thought i'll go back someday.... but meh
Between this "EULA" and the lies SOE told the EQ2 playerbase and then without warnint went back on those words and installed microtransactiosn I will never again play an SOE game, never. I don't care if they somehow finally make a good game, I will NEVER play it on their servers.
SOE is the absolute armpit of this industry. Their lack of ethics will someday hopefully be considered illegal once law catches up the internet gaming and virtual trade.
If the Smed left SOE, there is a chance that some other company might hire him. That just spreads the problems around. With him at SOE, it makes it easier to avoid the products that he is involved with.
How big of a fool do the folks from FLS have to feel like after this past week? When they announced that SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea, they kept claiming that SOE had learned the right lessons from their past mistakes and that folks should buy PotBS to reward SOE's good behavior (which somehow solely seemed to consist of agreeing to publish PotBS). I guess not enough people bought PotBS, so the folks at SOE have decided to go back to being douche bags. I mean, it can't be that they were douche bags all along...
I just read it. You should have quoted the whole thing and not just parts. It's basically been altered so that if a legal authority (police, governmental agency etc) wants to get your info, they can without having to go through a judge. I don't see the harm in this.
Doesn't that assume that the legal authorities are doing things all well and proper? I don't trust them.
I can't think of a single thing on my pc that would intrest SoE, I guess I have a boring life
Your hardware interests them. They can sell the information they gather about their customers' hardware to third parties for some extra cash. They can sell it to other software companies or hardware manufacturers directly, or to companies that sell that information to software companies and hardware manufacturers.
Privacy isn't about having something to hide, it is about your right to limit others' access to your personal property. It is the reason the government is supposed to have probable cause and a warrant to search through your stuff, instead of just randomly searching through your stuff. Unfortunately, enough people take the 'I have nothing to hide so let them look' veiw that privacy is slowly disappearing.
Blizzard changes their EULA's but none of you people bitch about that.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I just read it. You should have quoted the whole thing and not just parts. It's basically been altered so that if a legal authority (police, governmental agency etc) wants to get your info, they can without having to go through a judge. I don't see the harm in this.
You don't see harm in this?!?
So some "legal authority" wants access to your information and you are perfectly happy to give them complete access to you and your information WITHOUT A JUDGE FIRST APPROVING? No warrant, no probable cause? Have you ever heard of due process? Or the constitution? Your rights??
This is pretty bad. I've always been hoping that perhaps one day SOE could put the NGE and all their other mistakes behind them and eventually become a respected MMO developer. But with this new rule, it looks like that day is far off. Maybe it's just me, but I can't say it's anymore pathetic than Blizzard's rules limiting one account per person. Think of it like this, if a parent wanted to purchase WoW for his/her three children, he/she would would need to buy the game three times and then proceede to pay the subscription fee x3. That right there is what I consider a flawed EULA. Now I know of course only a fool wouldn't be able to get away with sharing an account with somebody who lives with you. But it still doesn't change that this a rule established by a sleazy company who will never get my money again.
It's one person per account, otherwise you got it right.
Edit: Actually the rules state that a paying adult can give one minor consent to play, and i can't say it's pathetic, what companies do you know off that encourages people to play together on one account?
If only you've read of the people that have had a friend delete their characters just for giggles, or what about the scornful girlfriend selling her boyfriends account?
The rule is there for a reason y'know.
That's not at all a good reason. If people are willing to risk the security of their account by sharing it with a friend/famiy member, then they should have that right.
I understand they want to avoid account sales and whatnot, but I still believe that there's no harm in allowing someone to share their account with somebody who lives with them.
Blizzard changes their EULA's but none of you people bitch about that.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
It's just to point out that the EULA gets updated and change for all mmorpgs out there and they casually make you constantly agree to it and blame you for not reading it each time they update it. SOE's asks you to agree to it each time you play and Blizzard's asks you to agree to it each time they update it.
You people just want to blame SOE for everything and thats not saying SOE are not blameless but all companies should make this more aware.
Blizzard changes their EULA's but none of you people bitch about that.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
It's just to point out that the EULA gets updated and change for all mmorpgs out there and they casually make you constantly agree to it and blame you for not reading it each time they update it. SOE's asks you to agree to it each time you play and Blizzard's asks you to agree to it each time they update it.
You people just want to blame SOE for everything and thats not saying SOE are not blameless but all companies should make this more aware.
John there is a difference in updating an EULA to protect the game or reflect new features/rules that are added and trying to "disclose" your personal information to whomever SOE wants to. Lets not pretend that this is a similar situation.
SOE does not need to disclose personal information to private parties to help run this game. SOE is trying to change a one sided contract so that they can sell your personal information to whomever wants to buy it from them.
Trying to deflect this issue onto another company is just deceitful.
Now that is one Eula that is flat out Illegal. Are their lawyers that braindead too that they don't know about unenforcable contracts? Good grief, they can't give away private information, without you actively authorizing it, that does not include agreeing to a Eula. Any court in the land will toss that phrase out so fast....lots of case law to back that up! If they give away personal information without proof you authorized it and that does not include accepting the Eula button, they are breaking lots of laws. Maybe some agencies in Calif. should be looking at this company
I don't have any legal expertise, so I won't comment on the actual EULA changes, but I'd be very interested in seeing documentation for these claims here. I'd be very surprised if any major company doesn't run their EULA text by some pretty good lawyers first. ;-)
Originally posted by Dreamagram I don't have any legal expertise, so I won't comment on the actual EULA changes, but I'd be very interested in seeing documentation for these claims here. I'd be very surprised if any major company doesn't run their EULA text by some pretty good lawyers first. ;-)
Just like Microsoft has done.
Doesn't help them, as whatever "good" legal department, there's another good legal department that can counter them -- or even the State suing the company.
Which is what I hope will happen with SoE, especially considering how it has treated it's customers over the years.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't say it's anymore pathetic than Blizzard's rules limiting one account per person. Think of it like this, if a parent wanted to purchase WoW for his/her three children, he/she would would need to buy the game three times and then proceede to pay the subscription fee x3. That right there is what I consider a flawed EULA. Now I know of course only a fool wouldn't be able to get away with sharing an account with somebody who lives with you. But it still doesn't change that this a rule established by a sleazy company who will never get my money again.
Ever thought about the fact that almost all hacked accounts cases are related to shared accounts?
They added that paragraph to their EULA for a good reason.
In fact every MMO company who run P2P MMO's have that rule. I never seen an P2P MMO where you were allowed to share accounts with others.
I know I'm going to be set on fire for this however, Link or it never happened? Perhaps a screenshot of said revisions?
I ask, because I just checked all 4 of my station pass games (I only keep it active because the little ones love playing POTBS/SWG/Vanguard/PlanetSide still), and in none of these game's EULA did I find were changed. Perhaps in EQ or EQ2's eula, since that's where the cashshops exist for. I can only ask.....screenshots please?
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I just read it. You should have quoted the whole thing and not just parts. It's basically been altered so that if a legal authority (police, governmental agency etc) wants to get your info, they can without having to go through a judge. I don't see the harm in this.
You don't see harm in this?!?
So some "legal authority" wants access to your information and you are perfectly happy to give them complete access to you and your information WITHOUT A JUDGE FIRST APPROVING? No warrant, no probable cause? Have you ever heard of due process? Or the constitution? Your rights??
Holy smokes man!
NO!
pardon me while I have an aneurysm
I am not actually currently playing but NO what Darva says is not what it was changed to.
""Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government officials as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible problems or inquiries."
Which is pretty much what the OP was referring to...
Law Enforcement and any other government bodies are NOT nor were they ever "private entities".
And this would allow them to hand over information for some random reason without a court order...
Well beyond the Patriot Act I can't really think of any "legal" way to obtain that type of information without a court order/warrant... those are kinda required for a reason...
You also don't have to agree to allow SOE to hand over information requested by law enforcement .. Why? Because that is what a warrant or court order is for...
And in fact.. this has nothing to do with SOE's sole discretion either.. because if a court says to do it.. they will either comply or be on the wrong end of the ban stick for once (yes humor).
So the only reason for a clause like that is to hand over information to people.. that have no legal right to it without you having to give consent...
Whether that information is something you wish to have handed over or not.. I can't say.. and really don't care.
I'm just pointing out that this isn't so they can hand over info because that girl you cybered with was 12 years old... that's what the courts are for.. and yes due process outside of the patriot act requires certain things..
*edited to add*
"We cannot ensure that your private communications and other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. For example, we may be forced to disclose information to the government or third parties under certain circumstances, or third parties may unlawfully intercept or access transmissions or private communications. Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government officials as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible problems or inquiries."
(since someone mentioned the entire text).
You can't be "forced" to turn over anything information about an individual to a third party. You can be ordered by a court to turn information over to "the court" or "law enforcement". aka you commit a crime .. hack an account whatever.. you don't answer to a third party.
That's the only issue with this from my perspective... giving information to the government because you are ordered to by a court is one thing. The third party thing... wtf is that.
Then again its rather odd at least imho that there would be a need to have this clause regardless. You don't have the right to deny them the ability to respond to a court order/warrant... and they have a legal obligation to respond if served with one. (just odd /shrug).
I know I'm going to be set on fire for this however, Link or it never happened? Perhaps a screenshot of said revisions?
I ask, because I just checked all 4 of my station pass games (I only keep it active because the little ones love playing POTBS/SWG/Vanguard/PlanetSide still), and in none of these game's EULA did I find were changed. Perhaps in EQ or EQ2's eula, since that's where the cashshops exist for. I can only ask.....screenshots please?
I know I'm going to be set on fire for this however, Link or it never happened? Perhaps a screenshot of said revisions?
I ask, because I just checked all 4 of my station pass games (I only keep it active because the little ones love playing POTBS/SWG/Vanguard/PlanetSide still), and in none of these game's EULA did I find were changed. Perhaps in EQ or EQ2's eula, since that's where the cashshops exist for. I can only ask.....screenshots please?
A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 9. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR THE EULA, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.
B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER AND ITS OPERATING SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND THE EULA.
C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, Chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others.
D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor Chat, and you engage in Chat at your own risk.
E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers.
A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 9. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR THE EULA, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER. B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER AND ITS OPERATING SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND THE EULA. C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, Chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others. D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor Chat, and you engage in Chat at your own risk. E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers.
Yes, Blizz will take your cpu data etc also, but the difference is they dont give it to 3rd party like SOE said in their EULA, but only to law enforcement...
A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 9. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR THE EULA, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER. B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER AND ITS OPERATING SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND THE EULA. C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, Chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others. D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor Chat, and you engage in Chat at your own risk. E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers.
Yes, Blizz will take your cpu data etc also, but the difference is they dont give it to 3rd party like SOE said in their EULA, but only to law enforcement...
yeah was just posting it if someone was curious...i went and read the EULA for SOE...it sounds crappy and all but i would like an explanation from them as to what third parties they would be talking about, i usually don't panic over stuff like this and find it curious...as for them saying what third party means to them i won't hold my breath for an answer.
Just because they say third party doesn't mean it could be bad, but everyone here will make their own conclusions.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Comments
uh not it isn't.
Thx for the heads up op, i just deleted VG from my pc... thought i'll go back someday.... but meh
RIP Orc Choppa
Between this "EULA" and the lies SOE told the EQ2 playerbase and then without warnint went back on those words and installed microtransactiosn I will never again play an SOE game, never. I don't care if they somehow finally make a good game, I will NEVER play it on their servers.
SOE is the absolute armpit of this industry. Their lack of ethics will someday hopefully be considered illegal once law catches up the internet gaming and virtual trade.
Tecmo Bowl.
i see soe is trying to put them selfs out of biz
I can't think of a single thing on my pc that would intrest SoE, I guess I have a boring life
If the Smed left SOE, there is a chance that some other company might hire him. That just spreads the problems around. With him at SOE, it makes it easier to avoid the products that he is involved with.
How big of a fool do the folks from FLS have to feel like after this past week? When they announced that SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea, they kept claiming that SOE had learned the right lessons from their past mistakes and that folks should buy PotBS to reward SOE's good behavior (which somehow solely seemed to consist of agreeing to publish PotBS). I guess not enough people bought PotBS, so the folks at SOE have decided to go back to being douche bags. I mean, it can't be that they were douche bags all along...
Doesn't that assume that the legal authorities are doing things all well and proper? I don't trust them.
Blizzard changes their EULA's but none of you people bitch about that.
Your hardware interests them. They can sell the information they gather about their customers' hardware to third parties for some extra cash. They can sell it to other software companies or hardware manufacturers directly, or to companies that sell that information to software companies and hardware manufacturers.
Privacy isn't about having something to hide, it is about your right to limit others' access to your personal property. It is the reason the government is supposed to have probable cause and a warrant to search through your stuff, instead of just randomly searching through your stuff. Unfortunately, enough people take the 'I have nothing to hide so let them look' veiw that privacy is slowly disappearing.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
You don't see harm in this?!?
So some "legal authority" wants access to your information and you are perfectly happy to give them complete access to you and your information WITHOUT A JUDGE FIRST APPROVING? No warrant, no probable cause? Have you ever heard of due process? Or the constitution? Your rights??
Holy smokes man!
NO!
pardon me while I have an aneurysm
It's one person per account, otherwise you got it right.
Edit: Actually the rules state that a paying adult can give one minor consent to play, and i can't say it's pathetic, what companies do you know off that encourages people to play together on one account?
If only you've read of the people that have had a friend delete their characters just for giggles, or what about the scornful girlfriend selling her boyfriends account?
The rule is there for a reason y'know.
That's not at all a good reason. If people are willing to risk the security of their account by sharing it with a friend/famiy member, then they should have that right.
I understand they want to avoid account sales and whatnot, but I still believe that there's no harm in allowing someone to share their account with somebody who lives with them.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
It's just to point out that the EULA gets updated and change for all mmorpgs out there and they casually make you constantly agree to it and blame you for not reading it each time they update it. SOE's asks you to agree to it each time you play and Blizzard's asks you to agree to it each time they update it.
You people just want to blame SOE for everything and thats not saying SOE are not blameless but all companies should make this more aware.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
It's just to point out that the EULA gets updated and change for all mmorpgs out there and they casually make you constantly agree to it and blame you for not reading it each time they update it. SOE's asks you to agree to it each time you play and Blizzard's asks you to agree to it each time they update it.
You people just want to blame SOE for everything and thats not saying SOE are not blameless but all companies should make this more aware.
John there is a difference in updating an EULA to protect the game or reflect new features/rules that are added and trying to "disclose" your personal information to whomever SOE wants to. Lets not pretend that this is a similar situation.
SOE does not need to disclose personal information to private parties to help run this game. SOE is trying to change a one sided contract so that they can sell your personal information to whomever wants to buy it from them.
Trying to deflect this issue onto another company is just deceitful.
I don't have any legal expertise, so I won't comment on the actual EULA changes, but I'd be very interested in seeing documentation for these claims here. I'd be very surprised if any major company doesn't run their EULA text by some pretty good lawyers first. ;-)
Just like Microsoft has done.
Doesn't help them, as whatever "good" legal department, there's another good legal department that can counter them -- or even the State suing the company.
Which is what I hope will happen with SoE, especially considering how it has treated it's customers over the years.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Ever thought about the fact that almost all hacked accounts cases are related to shared accounts?
They added that paragraph to their EULA for a good reason.
In fact every MMO company who run P2P MMO's have that rule. I never seen an P2P MMO where you were allowed to share accounts with others.
Cheers
I know I'm going to be set on fire for this however, Link or it never happened? Perhaps a screenshot of said revisions?
I ask, because I just checked all 4 of my station pass games (I only keep it active because the little ones love playing POTBS/SWG/Vanguard/PlanetSide still), and in none of these game's EULA did I find were changed. Perhaps in EQ or EQ2's eula, since that's where the cashshops exist for. I can only ask.....screenshots please?
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
You don't see harm in this?!?
So some "legal authority" wants access to your information and you are perfectly happy to give them complete access to you and your information WITHOUT A JUDGE FIRST APPROVING? No warrant, no probable cause? Have you ever heard of due process? Or the constitution? Your rights??
Holy smokes man!
NO!
pardon me while I have an aneurysm
I am not actually currently playing but NO what Darva says is not what it was changed to.
""Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government officials as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible problems or inquiries."
Which is pretty much what the OP was referring to...
Law Enforcement and any other government bodies are NOT nor were they ever "private entities".
And this would allow them to hand over information for some random reason without a court order...
Well beyond the Patriot Act I can't really think of any "legal" way to obtain that type of information without a court order/warrant... those are kinda required for a reason...
You also don't have to agree to allow SOE to hand over information requested by law enforcement .. Why? Because that is what a warrant or court order is for...
And in fact.. this has nothing to do with SOE's sole discretion either.. because if a court says to do it.. they will either comply or be on the wrong end of the ban stick for once (yes humor).
So the only reason for a clause like that is to hand over information to people.. that have no legal right to it without you having to give consent...
Whether that information is something you wish to have handed over or not.. I can't say.. and really don't care.
I'm just pointing out that this isn't so they can hand over info because that girl you cybered with was 12 years old... that's what the courts are for.. and yes due process outside of the patriot act requires certain things..
*edited to add*
"We cannot ensure that your private communications and other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. For example, we may be forced to disclose information to the government or third parties under certain circumstances, or third parties may unlawfully intercept or access transmissions or private communications. Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government officials as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible problems or inquiries."
(since someone mentioned the entire text).
You can't be "forced" to turn over anything information about an individual to a third party. You can be ordered by a court to turn information over to "the court" or "law enforcement". aka you commit a crime .. hack an account whatever.. you don't answer to a third party.
That's the only issue with this from my perspective... giving information to the government because you are ordered to by a court is one thing. The third party thing... wtf is that.
Then again its rather odd at least imho that there would be a need to have this clause regardless. You don't have the right to deny them the ability to respond to a court order/warrant... and they have a legal obligation to respond if served with one. (just odd /shrug).
You already answered your question yourself.
Cheers
help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php
Check this link, its at number 13, not 12.
RIP Orc Choppa
blizzzards if anyone was wondering what it says:
Acknowledgments.
You hereby acknowledge and agree that:
A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 9. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR THE EULA, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.
B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER AND ITS OPERATING SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND THE EULA.
C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, Chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others.
D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor Chat, and you engage in Chat at your own risk.
E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers.
www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Yes, Blizz will take your cpu data etc also, but the difference is they dont give it to 3rd party like SOE said in their EULA, but only to law enforcement...
RIP Orc Choppa
Yes, Blizz will take your cpu data etc also, but the difference is they dont give it to 3rd party like SOE said in their EULA, but only to law enforcement...
yeah was just posting it if someone was curious...i went and read the EULA for SOE...it sounds crappy and all but i would like an explanation from them as to what third parties they would be talking about, i usually don't panic over stuff like this and find it curious...as for them saying what third party means to them i won't hold my breath for an answer.
Just because they say third party doesn't mean it could be bad, but everyone here will make their own conclusions.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas