Ok thats it, i will bring the pitchforks who can bring the torches? People really need to get a grip, is anyone still able to believe that their information is safe? For the naive, this has been going on for years, yes young puppies even before the internet. Get a grip for gods sake. Sounds like sony has a real stealthy operation going here, gee just because they disclosed it doenst mean its not stealthy....wait!! i see a black helicopter with sony on the side of it outside my window. Oh no biggie, they just wanted to get my payment for all the uber gear i bought from the station store, which i bought so i can be better than all the poor folks without a few bucks left over after their expenditures for high speed internet and their gaming rigs not to mention the evil monthy fee they have to pay. Some people need something to be pissed off about or scared of to be able to function in their daily lives. Cant wait to read about the next horrible thing sony is going to do us.
Now here we finally have some good advice. Things like this are already happening so we should just ignore it when we encounter is somewhere else. Never should anyone raise concern about shady business practices and anyone who does is some conspiracy theorist who deserves public shaming.
Please know that you are exactly the type of person that empowers companies to do these sorts of things. Not only do you roll over to whatever they decide to thrust on you, but you actively go to their defense with some limp opinion that just because bad things are happening in other parts of the world it somehow condones this company from doing the same thing.
There is no good reason for SOE to do this. It will not benefit you, me or anyone else in the slightest and SOE did NOT disclose this. They tucked it into the middle of some longwinder legal document and tried to camoflage it by placing it next to law enforcement cooperation.
If people had a backbone once in a while, maybe SOE wouldn't do these types of things anymore.
so wheres the hate for CCP eula? they blatantly say the information gathered will and can be given to a 3rd party? or what about blizzard? who have said they will be monitoring your ram (aka hardware)?
Blizzard changes their EULA's but none of you people bitch about that.
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
It's just to point out that the EULA gets updated and change for all mmorpgs out there and they casually make you constantly agree to it and blame you for not reading it each time they update it. SOE's asks you to agree to it each time you play and Blizzard's asks you to agree to it each time they update it.
You people just want to blame SOE for everything and thats not saying SOE are not blameless but all companies should make this more aware.
John there is a difference in updating an EULA to protect the game or reflect new features/rules that are added and trying to "disclose" your personal information to whomever SOE wants to. Lets not pretend that this is a similar situation.
SOE does not need to disclose personal information to private parties to help run this game. SOE is trying to change a one sided contract so that they can sell your personal information to whomever wants to buy it from them.
Trying to deflect this issue onto another company is just deceitful.
If you don't agree with the EULA then don't play the game because that's what it is there for but if you click agree and carry on playing then really it's your own fault if anything is to happen.
There are certain things that can be added to a EULA and certain things that cannot. It is a one way contract and in order for it to be enforcable both parties need to have bargaining power beyond normal expectations of what a EULA protects the companys property from. SOE can't for example put into the EULA that they can use your credit card to buy whatever they want with it and have any chance of standing up in court when they are charged with fraud.
Discussion of the points is important. SOE can't just slip in permission to sell your information in an cleverly disguised manner and the end user either has to like it or leave it and blaming the player for being at fault is lame. Beyond that is just shows how unethical this company is and their desperation to squeeze every last nickle out of their dwindling subscriber base at any cost.
I can not play the game and still have an opinion.
They have alot of Lawyers who look into stuff like this to make sure they can't be sued or anything so they obviously can.
What an ignorant statement. You think because some corporate lawyer might havebsigned off on this that everything is fine and dandy?
Sorry to break it to you, but there are lots of lawyers out there, including the ones in corporations that will attempt to bend every law out there. This is clearly such an attempt and it directly violates consumer protection laws. You can definitely expect a class action suit out of this.
Take them to court then and see who wins and then come back and tell me they're breaking the law.
so wheres the hate for CCP eula? they blatantly say the information gathered will and can be given to a 3rd party? or what about blizzard? who have said they will be monitoring your ram (aka hardware)?
The sheer hypocrisy is astounding.........
QFT, its like the op and others finialy got around to reading a EULA.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I think the people who don't find this objectionable simply lack imagination. There are many instances where one does not want some anonymous person they do not know going through their computer files. For example, some people have sensitive financial information on their computer, or priveleged information bound by privacy laws, company memo's, reports, etc, copyrighted material, and other things.
In America we have a certain expectation of privacy. When you make a real world analogy you begin to understand how crazy this is. For instance, imagine your son joins Boy Scouts. How crazy would it be then if Boy Scouts of America required that they be able to come in your house at any time, look through your mail, check your closets, drawers, etc, and sell any information they found. That's basically what SOE is doing, and frankly it's appalling.
But some people, having never fought for their rights, have taken them for granted and are willing to give them away out of some misguided trust for a corporation that is not bound by a creed of ethics, but rather greed.
i can understand why people would object, but my qquestion is: where are the raging posts against almost all the other mmorpgs? why single out just soe....when every other mmorpg (almost all of them) monitor your hardware and collect information about your computer?
i can understand why people would object, but my qquestion is: where are the raging posts against almost all the other mmorpgs? why single out just soe....when every other mmorpg (almost all of them) monitor your hardware and collect information about your computer?
Read the EULA. Other MMOs do those things to protect the integrity of their gameplay. To catch cheaters, hackers, botters and things of that nature. SOE is doing this so that they can "share" whatever information they have about you with anyone they deem suitable. There is no reason for them to do this to maintain the game. It isn't something they are doing that will somehow benefit you. It is simply SOE wanting to sell your information to people you most likely do now want to have it.
Also this is more than SOE scanning your computer. They also have every bit of information you entered in the billing details and anything else you might have filled out. There is a mile of difference between this and what other companies are doing. This is personally identifiable information, not some demographic
That is why people are not upset with other companies EULA, but so many of the SOE fans just can't seperate the differences. Most just huddle up into the typical defensive stance of ignoring the problem or deflecting the topic onto another company as if that somehow makes what SOE is doing justifiable.
SOE has no ethical right to do this and perhaps no legal right either. It just is not right for them to do it at all.
Hmm, yeah can't really see what the fuss is all about.
I mean, none of us use pirated software or have anything illegal on our computers, do we?
I don't care too much about spam mail, I've a filter that just dumps every mail from people who aren't in my addressbook into a separate folder that is autodeleted once a week; I just poke through it now and again to see if there's anything in there from people who I want to add to my addressbook.
If the Smed's so desperate for entertainment that he wants to read my saucy email to the missus then meh, I couldn't really give much of a monkeys (providing he doesn't critique my spelling).
Update from December 2 2008. It was changed for their Cash Shop. But someone noticed they changed paragraph 12 too.
12: "We cannot ensure that your private communications and other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities. You expressly permit SOE to upload CPU, operating system, video card, sound card and memory information from your computer to analyze and optimize your Game experience, improve and maintain the Game and/or provide you with customer service. Furthermore, if you request any technical support, you consent to our remote accessing and review of the computer you load the Software onto for purposes of support and debugging."
isnt that against the law, lol, just so you guys know if you live in Vermont then you dont have to follow the EULA theres a law thing there.
Update from December 2 2008. It was changed for their Cash Shop. But someone noticed they changed paragraph 12 too.
12: "We cannot ensure that your private communications and other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. Additionally, we can (and you authorize us to) disclose any information about you to private entities. You expressly permit SOE to upload CPU, operating system, video card, sound card and memory information from your computer to analyze and optimize your Game experience, improve and maintain the Game and/or provide you with customer service. Furthermore, if you request any technical support, you consent to our remote accessing and review of the computer you load the Software onto for purposes of support and debugging."
Kudos to OP for bringing this forward.
Thank god i didn't reactivated my EQ2 accounts for the recent expension.
Now that is one Eula that is flat out Illegal. Are their lawyers that braindead too that they don't know about unenforcable contracts? Good grief, they can't give away private information, without you actively authorizing it, that does not include agreeing to a Eula. Any court in the land will toss that phrase out so fast....lots of case law to back that up! If they give away personal information without proof you authorized it and that does not include accepting the Eula button, they are breaking lots of laws. Maybe some agencies in Calif. should be looking at this company
Haven't read the entire thread (it's huge) but the above is not true. SOE Cannot garauntee your privacy because of the Patriot Act. The US government has made it very clear they can demand to see all logs and private information from games WITHOUT A WARRANT. SOE is jsut doing what every MMO developer has to do... letting you know that the have to keep logs and that those logs may have to be given to people for a number of reasons beyond their control. Therefor they cannot garauntee your privacy (mainly because the logs can be viewed without warrants).
SoE are morons for this and other consumer abusive aspects of their company.Anyone playing a SoE game is feeding this and are as moronic for doing so imho....way to enable junk.
Vestas, your wrong...SoE is not obligated to make such a general and over-arching statement. Their not specific to government intervention language, meaning, they are using it to sell user data now.
Vestas, your wrong...SoE is not obligated to make such a general and over-arching statement. Their not specific to government intervention language, meaning, they are using it to sell user data now.
Precisely, as the EULA was changed right when the RMT was released. If it was a Homeland security issue, it would've been in the EULA since 2001.
What SoE was saying is, if they send XYZ third party user data, ABC (a third party to XYZ) may be able to see it and use it, too.
The object is SoE wants to sell user data to other companies for cash, and careless about customers privacy, as they want money from the initial sell.
User data is a major money maker for companies (much like mailing lists for spammers). Manufacturers (like Microsoft; Intel; Nvidia/ATI, Creative, etc..) can use the data to boost their sale figures by knowing how much of the market is and isn't using their product(s) and for what reason. It's not given for free, and a company selling it can get a tidy monthly or quartely sum by "sharing" it.
It's wrong without consent, much like it's wrong for police to search your house without a warrant. SoE can protect that data simply by not trading it outside the company (and making sure their databases are secure).
Ok, so what do these guys got? SWG, Matrix, EQ, Vanguard, PotBS and Planetside. Rest of their games are singleplayer crapfests so uninteresting. Not a big loss if you ask me. None of the above mmo's interest me in the slightest. Some of them used to be good, but SoE destroyed them with a vengeance, latest being RMT in EQ...wtf??? Let them milk the mindless masses that give away their rights and privacy without a second thought. If they can't think for themselfes, they deserve their rights abused. If you don't read the EULA, you deserve whatever coming your way. Allthough the EULA is hardly a legal binding contract but that is another discussion.
Now that is one Eula that is flat out Illegal. Are their lawyers that braindead too that they don't know about unenforcable contracts? Good grief, they can't give away private information, without you actively authorizing it, that does not include agreeing to a Eula. Any court in the land will toss that phrase out so fast....lots of case law to back that up! If they give away personal information without proof you authorized it and that does not include accepting the Eula button, they are breaking lots of laws. Maybe some agencies in Calif. should be looking at this company
Haven't read the entire thread (it's huge) but the above is not true. SOE Cannot garauntee your privacy because of the Patriot Act. The US government has made it very clear they can demand to see all logs and private information from games WITHOUT A WARRANT. SOE is jsut doing what every MMO developer has to do... letting you know that the have to keep logs and that those logs may have to be given to people for a number of reasons beyond their control. Therefor they cannot garauntee your privacy (mainly because the logs can be viewed without warrants).
Sorry, but you are wrong. They still need a warrant. Even the Patriot Act does not allow them to get it without one. Next time know your subject.
Now that is one Eula that is flat out Illegal. Are their lawyers that braindead too that they don't know about unenforcable contracts? Good grief, they can't give away private information, without you actively authorizing it, that does not include agreeing to a Eula. Any court in the land will toss that phrase out so fast....lots of case law to back that up! If they give away personal information without proof you authorized it and that does not include accepting the Eula button, they are breaking lots of laws. Maybe some agencies in Calif. should be looking at this company
Haven't read the entire thread (it's huge) but the above is not true. SOE Cannot garauntee your privacy because of the Patriot Act. The US government has made it very clear they can demand to see all logs and private information from games WITHOUT A WARRANT. SOE is jsut doing what every MMO developer has to do... letting you know that the have to keep logs and that those logs may have to be given to people for a number of reasons beyond their control. Therefor they cannot garauntee your privacy (mainly because the logs can be viewed without warrants).
US Government =/= Private Groups
So who are these private groups? They can be anyone from mail Spammers to statistic gathering companies. Worst case senario, anyone that pays for that information.
Does this break the law? Not at all, otherwise they wouldn't even release this. EULA's are strictly controlled by lawyers, if the lawyer army of a worldwide multi-billion worth company doesn't find anything against the law, then there isn't one. Even if it is, I'm sure any lawsuit will favor SOE with a legal loophole.
So it is pointless to discuss if this is against the law or not. It's unethical and thats it. Best thing you can do is to spread the word and stop playing SOE games. End of story.
Originally posted by Nickless_man EULA's are strictly controlled by lawyers, if the lawyer army of a worldwide multi-billion worth company doesn't find anything against the law, then there isn't one.
Try telling Microsoft, let alone an even more hated entity - RIAA - about that, Nick.
EULAs can be challenged by any lawyer or firm, as their fine print is designed to be duked out in court.
I just read it. You should have quoted the whole thing and not just parts. It's basically been altered so that if a legal authority (police, governmental agency etc) wants to get your info, they can without having to go through a judge. I don't see the harm in this.
The harm is in the "third party" or "private entity". The government is not a private entity.
True, it isn't. However, the people that gather their information are.
Sorry, but I won't be joining in burning SOE at the stake today
yeah, it COULD mean the government. it could also mean the people that send 10,000 different spam messages a day. it could also mean someone posing as a spammer, but who is actually a rapist and duped soe into giving him/her personal account information and since you consented to giving you and your children's information to said rapist, you are now responsible for what that child molesting scum does.
but, that's just me, since third party can be anything at all.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
---By the my authority as King of the World, King of Kings and a god, I sentence you to be destroy from the earth, all your witchery will be vanish and all your deeds are going to get erased from history.. FOREVER---
---By the my authority as King of the World, King of Kings and a god, I sentence you to be destroy from the earth, all your witchery will be vanish and all your deeds are going to get erased from history.. FOREVER---
No no, you have to pay 10,000SC in order to do that first.
It's a sad day for gamers. Just logged into my steam account and found they permanently changed usd to euro for me, but didn't calculate new prices. My last game bought there was Aquaria at 15.99 usd. Now it's up at 15.99 euro with is a huge increase in the price, some 30% or something. It's cheaper for me to buy it directly from the developer or even in my local computer store now and that go for all the rest of the games on steam. GG Valve, you just lost yet another customer. Go play with SoE, you obviously think the same way, ripping the customer off for his/hers last penny while you wipe you disease-ridden ass with thousand dollar bills. Bleeehhh...If I wasn't so hooked on computergames I quit this hobby for good.
Comments
Now here we finally have some good advice. Things like this are already happening so we should just ignore it when we encounter is somewhere else. Never should anyone raise concern about shady business practices and anyone who does is some conspiracy theorist who deserves public shaming.
Please know that you are exactly the type of person that empowers companies to do these sorts of things. Not only do you roll over to whatever they decide to thrust on you, but you actively go to their defense with some limp opinion that just because bad things are happening in other parts of the world it somehow condones this company from doing the same thing.
There is no good reason for SOE to do this. It will not benefit you, me or anyone else in the slightest and SOE did NOT disclose this. They tucked it into the middle of some longwinder legal document and tried to camoflage it by placing it next to law enforcement cooperation.
If people had a backbone once in a while, maybe SOE wouldn't do these types of things anymore.
you are still under the assumption that sony is the only one doing this, how sad.
so wheres the hate for CCP eula? they blatantly say the information gathered will and can be given to a 3rd party? or what about blizzard? who have said they will be monitoring your ram (aka hardware)?
The sheer hypocrisy is astounding.........
i would believe you if you quoted the eula part they changed, but atm all this is, is just random blizzard hate.
It's just to point out that the EULA gets updated and change for all mmorpgs out there and they casually make you constantly agree to it and blame you for not reading it each time they update it. SOE's asks you to agree to it each time you play and Blizzard's asks you to agree to it each time they update it.
You people just want to blame SOE for everything and thats not saying SOE are not blameless but all companies should make this more aware.
John there is a difference in updating an EULA to protect the game or reflect new features/rules that are added and trying to "disclose" your personal information to whomever SOE wants to. Lets not pretend that this is a similar situation.
SOE does not need to disclose personal information to private parties to help run this game. SOE is trying to change a one sided contract so that they can sell your personal information to whomever wants to buy it from them.
Trying to deflect this issue onto another company is just deceitful.
If you don't agree with the EULA then don't play the game because that's what it is there for but if you click agree and carry on playing then really it's your own fault if anything is to happen.
There are certain things that can be added to a EULA and certain things that cannot. It is a one way contract and in order for it to be enforcable both parties need to have bargaining power beyond normal expectations of what a EULA protects the companys property from. SOE can't for example put into the EULA that they can use your credit card to buy whatever they want with it and have any chance of standing up in court when they are charged with fraud.
Discussion of the points is important. SOE can't just slip in permission to sell your information in an cleverly disguised manner and the end user either has to like it or leave it and blaming the player for being at fault is lame. Beyond that is just shows how unethical this company is and their desperation to squeeze every last nickle out of their dwindling subscriber base at any cost.
I can not play the game and still have an opinion.
They have alot of Lawyers who look into stuff like this to make sure they can't be sued or anything so they obviously can.
What an ignorant statement. You think because some corporate lawyer might havebsigned off on this that everything is fine and dandy?
Sorry to break it to you, but there are lots of lawyers out there, including the ones in corporations that will attempt to bend every law out there. This is clearly such an attempt and it directly violates consumer protection laws. You can definitely expect a class action suit out of this.
Take them to court then and see who wins and then come back and tell me they're breaking the law.
QFT, its like the op and others finialy got around to reading a EULA.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I think the people who don't find this objectionable simply lack imagination. There are many instances where one does not want some anonymous person they do not know going through their computer files. For example, some people have sensitive financial information on their computer, or priveleged information bound by privacy laws, company memo's, reports, etc, copyrighted material, and other things.
In America we have a certain expectation of privacy. When you make a real world analogy you begin to understand how crazy this is. For instance, imagine your son joins Boy Scouts. How crazy would it be then if Boy Scouts of America required that they be able to come in your house at any time, look through your mail, check your closets, drawers, etc, and sell any information they found. That's basically what SOE is doing, and frankly it's appalling.
But some people, having never fought for their rights, have taken them for granted and are willing to give them away out of some misguided trust for a corporation that is not bound by a creed of ethics, but rather greed.
i can understand why people would object, but my qquestion is: where are the raging posts against almost all the other mmorpgs? why single out just soe....when every other mmorpg (almost all of them) monitor your hardware and collect information about your computer?
Read the EULA. Other MMOs do those things to protect the integrity of their gameplay. To catch cheaters, hackers, botters and things of that nature. SOE is doing this so that they can "share" whatever information they have about you with anyone they deem suitable. There is no reason for them to do this to maintain the game. It isn't something they are doing that will somehow benefit you. It is simply SOE wanting to sell your information to people you most likely do now want to have it.
Also this is more than SOE scanning your computer. They also have every bit of information you entered in the billing details and anything else you might have filled out. There is a mile of difference between this and what other companies are doing. This is personally identifiable information, not some demographic
That is why people are not upset with other companies EULA, but so many of the SOE fans just can't seperate the differences. Most just huddle up into the typical defensive stance of ignoring the problem or deflecting the topic onto another company as if that somehow makes what SOE is doing justifiable.
SOE has no ethical right to do this and perhaps no legal right either. It just is not right for them to do it at all.
For me, this is not a problem at all, but if I where to follow your idea, I would have to stop playing..
I enjoy EQ2, and its the only game I do play, and no matter how hard I seek, I simply can't find a replacement for it..
So for you to be completly paranoid, does not mean that everyone else have to also..
Hmm, yeah can't really see what the fuss is all about.
I mean, none of us use pirated software or have anything illegal on our computers, do we?
I don't care too much about spam mail, I've a filter that just dumps every mail from people who aren't in my addressbook into a separate folder that is autodeleted once a week; I just poke through it now and again to see if there's anything in there from people who I want to add to my addressbook.
If the Smed's so desperate for entertainment that he wants to read my saucy email to the missus then meh, I couldn't really give much of a monkeys (providing he doesn't critique my spelling).
Wow, this thread is still going on?
ALL companies that deal with an online experience, however you want to call it, change the EULA...
It is the nature of the beast....
Then again what can we expect from you all...oops....I don't want to get %#**#$....
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
isnt that against the law, lol, just so you guys know if you live in Vermont then you dont have to follow the EULA theres a law thing there.
Kudos to OP for bringing this forward.
Thank god i didn't reactivated my EQ2 accounts for the recent expension.
Haven't read the entire thread (it's huge) but the above is not true. SOE Cannot garauntee your privacy because of the Patriot Act. The US government has made it very clear they can demand to see all logs and private information from games WITHOUT A WARRANT. SOE is jsut doing what every MMO developer has to do... letting you know that the have to keep logs and that those logs may have to be given to people for a number of reasons beyond their control. Therefor they cannot garauntee your privacy (mainly because the logs can be viewed without warrants).
SoE are morons for this and other consumer abusive aspects of their company.Anyone playing a SoE game is feeding this and are as moronic for doing so imho....way to enable junk.
Vestas, your wrong...SoE is not obligated to make such a general and over-arching statement. Their not specific to government intervention language, meaning, they are using it to sell user data now.
Precisely, as the EULA was changed right when the RMT was released. If it was a Homeland security issue, it would've been in the EULA since 2001.
What SoE was saying is, if they send XYZ third party user data, ABC (a third party to XYZ) may be able to see it and use it, too.
The object is SoE wants to sell user data to other companies for cash, and careless about customers privacy, as they want money from the initial sell.
User data is a major money maker for companies (much like mailing lists for spammers). Manufacturers (like Microsoft; Intel; Nvidia/ATI, Creative, etc..) can use the data to boost their sale figures by knowing how much of the market is and isn't using their product(s) and for what reason. It's not given for free, and a company selling it can get a tidy monthly or quartely sum by "sharing" it.
It's wrong without consent, much like it's wrong for police to search your house without a warrant. SoE can protect that data simply by not trading it outside the company (and making sure their databases are secure).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Ok, so what do these guys got? SWG, Matrix, EQ, Vanguard, PotBS and Planetside. Rest of their games are singleplayer crapfests so uninteresting. Not a big loss if you ask me. None of the above mmo's interest me in the slightest. Some of them used to be good, but SoE destroyed them with a vengeance, latest being RMT in EQ...wtf??? Let them milk the mindless masses that give away their rights and privacy without a second thought. If they can't think for themselfes, they deserve their rights abused. If you don't read the EULA, you deserve whatever coming your way. Allthough the EULA is hardly a legal binding contract but that is another discussion.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Haven't read the entire thread (it's huge) but the above is not true. SOE Cannot garauntee your privacy because of the Patriot Act. The US government has made it very clear they can demand to see all logs and private information from games WITHOUT A WARRANT. SOE is jsut doing what every MMO developer has to do... letting you know that the have to keep logs and that those logs may have to be given to people for a number of reasons beyond their control. Therefor they cannot garauntee your privacy (mainly because the logs can be viewed without warrants).
Sorry, but you are wrong. They still need a warrant. Even the Patriot Act does not allow them to get it without one. Next time know your subject.
Haven't read the entire thread (it's huge) but the above is not true. SOE Cannot garauntee your privacy because of the Patriot Act. The US government has made it very clear they can demand to see all logs and private information from games WITHOUT A WARRANT. SOE is jsut doing what every MMO developer has to do... letting you know that the have to keep logs and that those logs may have to be given to people for a number of reasons beyond their control. Therefor they cannot garauntee your privacy (mainly because the logs can be viewed without warrants).
US Government =/= Private Groups
So who are these private groups? They can be anyone from mail Spammers to statistic gathering companies. Worst case senario, anyone that pays for that information.
Does this break the law? Not at all, otherwise they wouldn't even release this. EULA's are strictly controlled by lawyers, if the lawyer army of a worldwide multi-billion worth company doesn't find anything against the law, then there isn't one. Even if it is, I'm sure any lawsuit will favor SOE with a legal loophole.
So it is pointless to discuss if this is against the law or not. It's unethical and thats it. Best thing you can do is to spread the word and stop playing SOE games. End of story.
Thanks Firefly for posting that animation!
Try telling Microsoft, let alone an even more hated entity - RIAA - about that, Nick.
EULAs can be challenged by any lawyer or firm, as their fine print is designed to be duked out in court.
SoE's EULA just hasn't been challenged, yet.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
The harm is in the "third party" or "private entity". The government is not a private entity.
True, it isn't. However, the people that gather their information are.
Sorry, but I won't be joining in burning SOE at the stake today
yeah, it COULD mean the government. it could also mean the people that send 10,000 different spam messages a day. it could also mean someone posing as a spammer, but who is actually a rapist and duped soe into giving him/her personal account information and since you consented to giving you and your children's information to said rapist, you are now responsible for what that child molesting scum does.
but, that's just me, since third party can be anything at all.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
---By the my authority as King of the World, King of Kings and a god, I sentence you to be destroy from the earth, all your witchery will be vanish and all your deeds are going to get erased from history.. FOREVER---
No no, you have to pay 10,000SC in order to do that first.
It's a sad day for gamers. Just logged into my steam account and found they permanently changed usd to euro for me, but didn't calculate new prices. My last game bought there was Aquaria at 15.99 usd. Now it's up at 15.99 euro with is a huge increase in the price, some 30% or something. It's cheaper for me to buy it directly from the developer or even in my local computer store now and that go for all the rest of the games on steam. GG Valve, you just lost yet another customer. Go play with SoE, you obviously think the same way, ripping the customer off for his/hers last penny while you wipe you disease-ridden ass with thousand dollar bills. Bleeehhh...If I wasn't so hooked on computergames I quit this hobby for good.
Offtopic, yeah I know, but blow me...
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.