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Will Funcom breaking the Norwegian Law (If found to be) have an effect on AoC?
GrayGhost79
Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=58267
http://www.dagbladet.no/2008/12/11/kultur/funcom/spill/conan/arbeidsmiljo/4003653/
So whats everyones opinion on the matter? Seems many Ex-employee's are upset.
First link is an english translation.
article in norwegian:
http://www.dagbladet.no/2008/12/11/k...miljo/4003653/
the company is breaking norwegian law like nothing else.
the LO-concern EL and IT slaughters the work condition of the game company funcom.
people who quit the company claims to have had very long workdays, work during weekends and "red" days, harsh treatment, unpaid overtime, and illegal hiring conditions. the EL and IT concern has got a lot to do.
when i came in here, i saw it was about bad exploitation of young boys and girls. many has gotten sick, and i doubt if we'll ever be able to get them back on their legs again, to say it a little harshly.
they've worked so much, their health has pretty much been destroyed.
and they're only around 30 years old, says Erik Bråten in EL & IT to Dagbladet.
contacted by fiancee:
he was first contacted by a desperate fiancee of a funcom-employed about 2 years ago,
he wondered if everything was as it should be in the company. now Bråten is representing 4 funcom employees, and they have in the course of two years met around 30 members of over 250 funcom-employees to the concern.
in a post to Dagbladet funcom's HR-director Kjetil Vaarlund writes that the company is taking the
reaction from El&IT seriously, and that they are working continously to improve the work conditions.
Dagbladet has talked with several ex-employees in funcom. they tell about work conditions that
ultimately drove them out of the company.
"when i started working for funcom three years ago, it seemed like a very good place to work.
i worked a lot, and had maybe around 1200 overtime hours in 3 years.
inbetween i asked what we got back from all this overtime work, but they weren't certain"
directly from the school bench:
he worked with age of conan in his time at funcom, but wishes to be anonymous for the possibility of a further career in the game business "theodor" came straight from the school bench, and had no previous experience in the game business.
slowly i started to understand that it wasn't entirely right what was happending, they weren't following the norwegian laws of work environment.
when i asked the management about this, they said i had to be happy to work on games,
so i adjusted to it. but i got depressive in the long run.
according to "theodor" funcom didn't push him directly to work overtime-- but the upfordrings were very clear. those who worked the least overtime, was turned into sinners if results
were not met. himself he worked nights and weekends, and before major releases, the work pressure got so large that he collapsed in front of his computer.
then i was sick for a week, after having worked so intensely. i've never been that sick before, says "theodor".
after having researched if the workers rights are after the work environment laws, and talked to his colleagues about this, he was asked in by the management. there he got a lucrative quitter-package if he stopped working the same day, which he agreed to.
harsh treatment:
Osman Keskin is also a previous employee of funcom. he worked on both anarchy online and age of conan.
to begin with i did my job, and got compliments from the management. i was happy with my work. but one day it took a turn for the worse: i asked a few questions, and thats probably the reason for what happened, he says.
Keskin tells that he chose to leave Funcom because he was treated very badly by person in management. as he was being laid off, he claims that lies were spread about him from the management to his earlier co-workers.
i worked on anarchy online, and played that game for several years. it was a joy to work on the game, but if you ask questions, either about what they say to the public, or about something ethical-- there's a lot of strange things going on there-- they turn around very quickly.
even if the whole thing is about if you want to do improve projects you're working on, keskin says.
straight out
if someone shows initiative to get fair treatment, you're kicked out.
thats how its been, thats how its now, Bråten says about why there's so few organized Funcom employees.
every time a new member comes in, we have to go in and stamp out fires. the company is breaking norwegian law like a seasoned criminal. its very difficult to start working when you're standing knee deep in shit, Bråten says.
if you ask questions about management, you've gotten a big problem.
i'm also angry about what they've said to the public about age of conan.
they said that we were going to have things in the game that weren't in the game on launch, but was even written on the back of the casing in the stores, "theodore" says.
Everyone wants to succeed:
Funcom is pretty much alone about being a game developer in norway of international calibre.
both the previous employees and Bråten thinks that this isolated situation could have added to that things got so bad.
"i feel they've gotten away with a lot because of that. they become very protected from many angles, everyone wants them to succeed. thats what i want too, but when they treat people in the way they do, they don't deserve any employees. then its better that someone else takes over, and does it properly instead, says "theodor"
this is a large previous garage-company thats long ago outgrown itself. they simply haven't taught themselves how to operate as managers. funcom isn't small fish anymore, with its hundreds of employees Bråten says.
internationally the game business is known to have tough work conditions, especially when a game closes to release, so-called crunch time. then people work extra hard and late, to get the game ready for the set release date.
the problem with Age of conan is that the game was in "crunch" for almost 3 years.
"they always said there was a milestone on the way, and then the day came when they just
delayed the release date, so we had to continue working.
there is a couple of conditions i really would like to discuss with them. to get an up and running work environment theres two things that needs to be put on the day order. first its work time,
that needs to be cleared up, in addition to work agreements. only on work agreements
we're 100 years behind our time, i get nervous just by looking at what is said by the workers, and what they sign on.
Things have changed
the 2 ex-employees says that its possible to see some changes with Funcom.
i think more people know their rights now, and joins workers unions. its a good thing, i think something has changed within funcom. i've also heard that the employees are not pushed as hard anymore says Keskin.
that changes has happened is clear, and we can thank these guys for that. now we've come inbetween the walls there, and i think it helps. but there's still things that needs to be adjusted,
especially work hours and work agreements. respect and common decency also needs to take a foothold. that others have different meanings than yourself is fundamental-- but it shouldn't lead to unfair treatment. if you show your employees that you take them seriously, you get trust and respect for good leadership. then productivity increases, and people starts to enjoy work, Bråten says.
he thinks that Funcom employees must organize themselves to clean up the conditions
in Funcom, so that the conern doesn't have to micromanage every case.
i don't think anything good comes out of people being pressured to do things, threathened.
things become uncomfortable. if you want your company to succeed, you need happy employees.
they're not slaves or robots. they have lives, families, feelings, and are all human beings.
thats a basis-rule for leadership. if you make them happy, they will work more efficiently.
you should also not lie to them, or your customers, Keskin says.
Funcom has destroyed many both psychically and socially.
it lead to a breakup for me, and there's far worse examples than us. but they don't want to talk about it. they just want to forget it and have no more problems, "theodor" says.
Comments
Hmm, no overtime pay, lots of holiday work and there mentioned some "other stuff" in the norweigan newspaper.
This sounds like all software/gaming companys, only thing is that Norweigan law is tougher than elsewhere. Here in Sweden does the companys do the same thing.
No, I don't think it will affect the game so much. Maybe patches won't happen so soon after holidays.
Chinese Norwegian Sweat Shop. Its like they have cut off their(FUNCOM) nose to spite their face, quite sad
Personally I dont want to see funcom go down in a firey blaze, however I would like to see them get thier shit together if not for the simple fact of the employees.
Well after the Judgement against EA, this kind of thing can't really be looked at as an acceptable thing in the industry. Not only that, over time wasn't the only problem. So was harassment and poor overall working conditions and so on.
Haven't we been through this already?
No where does it say in that article that has tie in or timeline with Age of Conan.
The last post on the linked forum reads:
" Today, 07:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha we were kinda laughing about that article here at funcom, though i'm new here i can't seem to see anything like it, and no one here seems to think likewise the guy in the article.
heard there was some crunching in the end of conan, but what company doesn't, well we had a laugh atleast.
if people were treated badly before, then I'm really surprised of the changes they have made.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd year student at PSQ sweden.
intern at FunCom "
A lot of the quotes are like over 5 yrs old - no bearance on this game sorry.
This is completely normal within a video game company, especially an MMO company. Nothing that I read about in the artile is out of the ordinary.
That being said: It's not right and is an industry wide practice that needs to change.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
As to the age of the quotes or article, no idea you may be right I don't read the language the article is written in. All I know is I recently came apon the topic.
As for it's bearing on AoC, if it impacts FC, it impacts FC products indirectly. So as having no bearence on the game, it does unless the game is being ran by another company. The patching, continued development and opperating are all done by FC at this time. So yes if something negatively impacts FC, then it indirectly has some effect on the game.
Edited to add: One thing I would like to point out you stated quoted someone at FC laughing at others misfortune?
As to the age of the quotes or article, no idea you may be right I don't read the language the article is written in. All I know is I recently came apon the topic.
As for it's bearing on AoC, if it impacts FC, it impacts FC products indirectly. So as having no bearence on the game, it does unless the game is being ran by another company. The patching, continued development and opperating are all done by FC at this time. So yes if something negatively impacts FC, then it indirectly has some effect on the game.
Everything I read in that article pertains back to AO development some years ago. If the were issues before doesn't seem to be now - at least lets hope not. I've never stood for poor work place conditions, everyone I met there seems to be happy a year ago (official and unofficial capacity) If I am working a late shift I wouldn't mind working for a company that picks up the dinner bill like FC.
As to the age of the quotes or article, no idea you may be right I don't read the language the article is written in. All I know is I recently came apon the topic.
As for it's bearing on AoC, if it impacts FC, it impacts FC products indirectly. So as having no bearence on the game, it does unless the game is being ran by another company. The patching, continued development and opperating are all done by FC at this time. So yes if something negatively impacts FC, then it indirectly has some effect on the game.
Everything I read in that article pertains back to AO development some years ago. If the were issues before doesn't seem to be now - at least lets hope not. I've never stood for poor work place conditions, everyone I met there seems to be happy a year ago (official and unofficial capacity) If I am working a late shift I wouldn't mind working for a company that picks up the dinner bill like FC.
So this was simply concerning AO development some years ago?
"if someone shows initiative to get fair treatment, you're kicked out.
thats how its been, thats how its now, Bråten says about why there's so few organized Funcom employees.
every time a new member comes in, we have to go in and stamp out fires. the company is breaking norwegian law like a seasoned criminal. its very difficult to start working when you're standing knee deep in shit, Bråten says.
if you ask questions about management, you've gotten a big problem.
i'm also angry about what they've said to the public about age of conan.
they said that we were going to have things in the game that weren't in the game on launch, but was even written on the back of the casing in the stores, "theodore" says."
Yes, because a post from a supposed intern is a true contradiction of what's really going on at Funcom, innit.
Interns are desperate for a game job and will do most anything for approval to get a full time stint. What's alledgedly happening at Funcom is not uncommon with a lot of game studios, even post-EA Spouse adventures and lawsuit settlements, especially during these economic times where studios are laying off people left and right. "Hey, you wanna work here, you gotta put in the time and effort." This industry is not recession proof, especially since there are far more out-of-work devs than there are jobs available, just like many other industries nowadays. It's an ugly reality. Not all companies are taking advantage of their employees like this, but you'd be surprised of how many are taking advantage and getting away with it (or maybe you wouldn't be surprised...)
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
No idea on the question the OP asked.
EA which I thinked someone mentioned has been sued numerous times by employees or former employees. They were probably in better financial shape.
However, read that made me think of something...
Not that long after AoC launched there was a thread here that was found somewhere else. Anyway it claimed to be from a former employee and claimed the game would have been ready to launch much earlier.
But that Gaute (the guy that left and was a co-founder of funcom) wanted things changed..
Anyway it also went on to talk about horrible working conditions etc
/shrug
I don't remember the details very well as it was a while ago.
As to the age of the quotes or article, no idea you may be right I don't read the language the article is written in. All I know is I recently came apon the topic.
As for it's bearing on AoC, if it impacts FC, it impacts FC products indirectly. So as having no bearence on the game, it does unless the game is being ran by another company. The patching, continued development and opperating are all done by FC at this time. So yes if something negatively impacts FC, then it indirectly has some effect on the game.
Everything I read in that article pertains back to AO development some years ago. If the were issues before doesn't seem to be now - at least lets hope not. I've never stood for poor work place conditions, everyone I met there seems to be happy a year ago (official and unofficial capacity) If I am working a late shift I wouldn't mind working for a company that picks up the dinner bill like FC.
So this was simply concerning AO development some years ago?
"if someone shows initiative to get fair treatment, you're kicked out.
thats how its been, thats how its now, Bråten says about why there's so few organized Funcom employees.
every time a new member comes in, we have to go in and stamp out fires. the company is breaking norwegian law like a seasoned criminal. its very difficult to start working when you're standing knee deep in shit, Bråten says.
if you ask questions about management, you've gotten a big problem.
i'm also angry about what they've said to the public about age of conan.
they said that we were going to have things in the game that weren't in the game on launch, but was even written on the back of the casing in the stores, "theodore" says."
No time line specified, that part in red is obviously about post launch a sentiment a lot of people share but doesn't pertain to the apparent assumed neglect does it - it's just a bitching statement.
The yellow is just from a representative, representing 4 former employees (Bråten)
"Labor" a official body is looking into 2 cases next year
After a close look Keskin worked on AoC at the start (not in the past few years apparently) - he also said this (google translated)
Undergone change :
The two employee's believe it now that it is possible to track a change at Funcom.
- I think that more people know their rights now, and join the union. It is a good thing, I think something has changed at Funcom. I have also heard that the employees are not pressed as hard anymore, "said Keskin
I think you will find that pretty much the majority of complainers worked some years ago at the company, such as Keskin whom worked on AoC as a programmer at the start. (So I should of read into it a bit more that my previous statement)
Lets no forget either that Funcom was recently voted the 8th most attractive workplace in Norway for IT people.
So HR dude also said " - The statements of the former employees do not reflect opinions of the majority of current employees, on the contrary we are experiencing that several employees with long experience in the industry consider Funcom as the company with the game industry's best working environment, says our countries to Dagbladet.
He points out that Funcom is a unique company with a work environment that many will perceive as unusual in American standards. Moreover, he believes that it is natural that all employees are satisfied with the management and the working conditions in a company of their size.
The international gaming industry is known for harsh working conditions. This is probably the fact that developers in the games industry are passionate about the own occupation. Those who do not love to produce games not long. The phenomenon is so far not unknown among developers in general in our industry."
So it does look like conditions in the workplace and complaints there of are based on many from years ago and is not current - even the only guy who worked on AoC "Bekir Osman Keskin" did so only at the very start of development (how long ago who knows) and lets not forget the same guy said "I think something has changed at Funcom. I have also heard that the employees are not pressed as hard anymore"
So lets see both sides of the story (I dunno if your story is just out of compassion for employees or if there is a negative motive behind it)
Here is an article from a recent Funcom employer who worked on AoC as a designer:
Gamer.no contacted another former employee Funcom, Mats Remman. We asked if he has understanding for the former employees who have experienced the problem to work for Funcom, and wishing that it comes out in the media. (Remman worked on AoC)
Even Remman was reasonably happy with working conditions in Funcom: - "If you think about the relationship between employee and company it was much back and forth. They would like to add things the way for the employees, but there was not any real structure on it. It was tried out a couple of schemes but no one was adequately planned and fell into the fish because the results were so warped. "
Mats Remman stressed however that he could well imagine working on at Funcom, had it not been for that he was offered another job. It was particularly good environment he liked.
- Men like that against the other employees, so it could hardly be better. It is a great good environment with knowledgeable and friendly people, and always someone to turn talked to. Therefore took really to thank you some "bad" conditions one way because colleagues and Monday ran an offset to a large extent.
Strong fellowship
The close link between the employees may also be one of the reasons why there was so much overtime in the company, said Remman:
– I developed a strong fellowship with the others I worked with. You get an urge to add everything to the right so that others are not sitting and waiting for your work, before they can proceed with his. It is like to be put in more hours than what is good, but you get a kind of belonging to the project, and such a personal connection and own feeling that it is difficult to let be.
– Following is easy to think that we worked lots of overtime, but exactly where and when, when you sit in it, so it feels natural, and even well to add that little extra.
Funcom is headed in the right direction, according to Mats Remman. He is also convinced that even if it is unacceptable aspects of Funcom, the situation is on track to be better:
- After the Age of Conan-launch Funcom has done a lot of good for the structure of the company. They manage technology, developers and personnel in a more efficient way, as I see it, and make the whole platform more stable. I also think the players have seen, especially after Craig Morrison came to the helm and has been open to the environment.
One thing is for sure - Funcom credits people that worked on the game at any stage and also looks like recent employees say things are better and not so bad
Also any media attention will make sure or shold make sure their HR area is in check and up to snuff.
~just bringing a bit of balance and addition recent news to the article.
In UK overtime is expected and often not paid, and that's for every kind of business not just gaming.
Is it fair? No
Is it legal? Probably not.
In fact companies do not tell you to work extra hours, but employees choose to work extra time either to impress the Boss or to avoid being singled out as the laziest one. It is in the system, and unfortunately companies take advantage of it.
But that's how it works, and complaining is not going to change anything, since it is the standard.
Guys,
Find something else to be upset about... seriously.
We also got 4 weeks paid vacation per year whether your full time or part time. A higher on average across Europe national minimal wage. Even though Norway is not EU, I am sure FC pay well. Average hours worked in a week is highest in the UK too and generally higher across Europe than NA. As someone said in the article it might be a bit hard for Americans for Foreigner's to understand the set up. Now as a Foreigner in NA things are very different.
(Anyone remember the guy who was so angry that Funcom were having a 2 week xmas break instead of working on the development of AoC last year?)
As to the age of the quotes or article, no idea you may be right I don't read the language the article is written in. All I know is I recently came apon the topic.
As for it's bearing on AoC, if it impacts FC, it impacts FC products indirectly. So as having no bearence on the game, it does unless the game is being ran by another company. The patching, continued development and opperating are all done by FC at this time. So yes if something negatively impacts FC, then it indirectly has some effect on the game.
Everything I read in that article pertains back to AO development some years ago. If the were issues before doesn't seem to be now - at least lets hope not. I've never stood for poor work place conditions, everyone I met there seems to be happy a year ago (official and unofficial capacity) If I am working a late shift I wouldn't mind working for a company that picks up the dinner bill like FC.
So this was simply concerning AO development some years ago?
"if someone shows initiative to get fair treatment, you're kicked out.
thats how its been, thats how its now, Bråten says about why there's so few organized Funcom employees.
every time a new member comes in, we have to go in and stamp out fires. the company is breaking norwegian law like a seasoned criminal. its very difficult to start working when you're standing knee deep in shit, Bråten says.
if you ask questions about management, you've gotten a big problem.
i'm also angry about what they've said to the public about age of conan.
they said that we were going to have things in the game that weren't in the game on launch, but was even written on the back of the casing in the stores, "theodore" says."
No time line specified, that part in red is obviously about post launch a sentiment a lot of people share but doesn't pertain to the apparent assumed neglect does it - it's just a bitching statement.
The yellow is just from a representative, representing 4 former employees (Bråten)
"Labor" a official body is looking into 2 cases next year
After a close look Keskin worked on AoC at the start (not in the past few years apparently) - he also said this (google translated)
Undergone change :
The two employee's believe it now that it is possible to track a change at Funcom.
- I think that more people know their rights now, and join the union. It is a good thing, I think something has changed at Funcom. I have also heard that the employees are not pressed as hard anymore, "said Keskin
I think you will find that pretty much the majority of complainers worked some years ago at the company, such as Keskin whom worked on AoC as a programmer at the start. (So I should of read into it a bit more that my previous statement)
Lets no forget either that Funcom was recently voted the 8th most attractive workplace in Norway for IT people.
So HR dude also said " - The statements of the former employees do not reflect opinions of the majority of current employees, on the contrary we are experiencing that several employees with long experience in the industry consider Funcom as the company with the game industry's best working environment, says our countries to Dagbladet.
He points out that Funcom is a unique company with a work environment that many will perceive as unusual in American standards. Moreover, he believes that it is natural that all employees are satisfied with the management and the working conditions in a company of their size.
The international gaming industry is known for harsh working conditions. This is probably the fact that developers in the games industry are passionate about the own occupation. Those who do not love to produce games not long. The phenomenon is so far not unknown among developers in general in our industry."
So it does look like conditions in the workplace and complaints there of are based on many from years ago and is not current - even the only guy who worked on AoC "Bekir Osman Keskin" did so only at the very start of development (how long ago who knows) and lets not forget the same guy said "I think something has changed at Funcom. I have also heard that the employees are not pressed as hard anymore"
So lets see both sides of the story (I dunno if your story is just out of compassion for employees or if there is a negative motive behind it)
Here is an article from a recent Funcom employer who worked on AoC as a designer:
Gamer.no contacted another former employee Funcom, Mats Remman. We asked if he has understanding for the former employees who have experienced the problem to work for Funcom, and wishing that it comes out in the media. (Remman worked on AoC)
Even Remman was reasonably happy with working conditions in Funcom: - "If you think about the relationship between employee and company it was much back and forth. They would like to add things the way for the employees, but there was not any real structure on it. It was tried out a couple of schemes but no one was adequately planned and fell into the fish because the results were so warped. "
Mats Remman stressed however that he could well imagine working on at Funcom, had it not been for that he was offered another job. It was particularly good environment he liked.
- Men like that against the other employees, so it could hardly be better. It is a great good environment with knowledgeable and friendly people, and always someone to turn talked to. Therefore took really to thank you some "bad" conditions one way because colleagues and Monday ran an offset to a large extent.
Strong fellowship
The close link between the employees may also be one of the reasons why there was so much overtime in the company, said Remman:
– I developed a strong fellowship with the others I worked with. You get an urge to add everything to the right so that others are not sitting and waiting for your work, before they can proceed with his. It is like to be put in more hours than what is good, but you get a kind of belonging to the project, and such a personal connection and own feeling that it is difficult to let be.
– Following is easy to think that we worked lots of overtime, but exactly where and when, when you sit in it, so it feels natural, and even well to add that little extra.
Funcom is headed in the right direction, according to Mats Remman. He is also convinced that even if it is unacceptable aspects of Funcom, the situation is on track to be better:
- After the Age of Conan-launch Funcom has done a lot of good for the structure of the company. They manage technology, developers and personnel in a more efficient way, as I see it, and make the whole platform more stable. I also think the players have seen, especially after Craig Morrison came to the helm and has been open to the environment.
One thing is for sure - Funcom credits people that worked on the game at any stage and also looks like recent employees say things are better and not so bad
Also any media attention will make sure or shold make sure their HR area is in check and up to snuff.
~just bringing a bit of balance and addition recent news to the article.
As long as you changed your tune and can accept that yes it does concern AoC as well and not just AO.
I understand you read that FC is laughing at these individuals for there misfortune due to what the intern said and all that just didn't understand how exactly you were trying to distance the above, FC and AoC lol.
Glad you took back the comment.
This company is full of failure. They should get a huge fine.
No need to defend it fanboys...
I'm a former Funcom employee as well, and I can say that it all looks very recognizable.
Of course we had to work a lot of overtime, which I personally didn't mind that much (although some appreciation for it would have been nice), but I can understand that it kills other people. But the truth is that there are indeed some *very* poisonous people in management. If you don't have to deal with them, I can understand that Funcom seems like a fine place (which is probably the case with that intern), but once you get into their target, and become the target of their frustrations, they can get really nasty.
I'm in the process of writing down my own story, which l'm gonna send to Erik Bråten. I'll probably post it here as well.
This is the thread here I was talking about...
http://www.3drpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/195345/page/1
The part of this thread that I kinda remembered from that was:
"I left Funcom last Fall...I couldn't take it anymore. The work environment was very bad, everyone complained and felt trampled on by managment, at the same time as everyone had to work overtime without compensation other than a bad meal of pizza or spice (assume spiced take-away food).
I now work in another design company with proper work conditions and I'm enjoying it."
That was from the "why aoc failed according to an ex-funcom employee" thread.
So the overtime without compensation part was what caught my eye I guess.
This is completely normal within a video game company, especially an MMO company. Nothing that I read about in the artile is out of the ordinary.
That being said: It's not right and is an industry wide practice that needs to change.
yeah it isnt right, in fact its illegal, violates numerous labor laws. I am a fan of games, and I hoped (emphasis on hoped) to get into game development. but id be damned if a company harrass, badger, or threaten me, not to mention not pay me for Overtime? thats constitutes a lawsuit. this is in fact typical of game development companies. which is down right sad and pathetic, they are 50-60 years behind current labor practices violating untold number of laws that end up making employees, sick, depressed, angered, unloyal, break up relationships, marriages, for what? make a profit?? bullshit!,
when will these companies e.g. EA, FUNCOM, everyone included, realize that by threatening, harrassing, pressuring, overworking your company will end up shooting off your foot in the end.
Personally I wouldnt mind working a few hours overtime for a company if they respected me, treated me good, appreciated my work, a happy employee is a efficient employee. and I must state I love AmazingAvery's downplaying of this article**insert sarcasm**. AA, please dude, I wouldnt be surprised if Funcom was doing this during AOC, in fact id bet $1,000 that they were overworking, pressuring, and threatening workers. working for a game company although fun, also has a dark side, abhorrent, abysmal working conditions.
I see through your BS AA. I respect you but your response in this post is typical rheortic downplaying the authencity of the accusations that FUNCOM has done in the past. several employees have come to testify that these accusations are in fact true, just like EA, FUncom will in fact suffer from a major lawsuit if they dont change their ways.
I wonder if its healthy for me to ever get a job in game development, id be damned if im forced working 90 hours a week continously and on top of that not pay me for my oVertime? Id sued their ass into bankruptcy. Im very vocal, I can imagine if i said soemthing knowing funcoms typical response would turn into a lawsuit against them. If there is one thing I make sure to know,is my employment/labor rights.sad pathetic state of events.
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^^
EA isn't bad anymore at all. And if I compare the situation at Funcom to what I hear from other collegues in the industry, the situation at Funcom is really extreme (maybe not even the amount of overtime, but the way management deals with it).
I don't think you will find a lot of game development companies that has so many disgruntled former employees as Funcom has.
This is completely normal within a video game company, especially an MMO company. Nothing that I read about in the artile is out of the ordinary.
That being said: It's not right and is an industry wide practice that needs to change.
yeah it isnt right, in fact its illegal, violates numerous labor laws. I am a fan of games, and I hoped (emphasis on hoped) to get into game development. but id be damned if a company harrass, badger, or threaten me, not to mention not pay me for Overtime? thats constitutes a lawsuit. this is in fact typical of game development companies. which is down right sad and pathetic, they are 50-60 years behind current labor practices violating untold number of laws that end up making employees, sick, depressed, angered, unloyal, break up relationships, marriages, for what? make a profit?? bullshit!,
when will these companies e.g. EA, FUNCOM, everyone included, realize that by threatening, harrassing, pressuring, overworking your company will end up shooting off your foot in the end.
Personally I wouldnt mind working a few hours overtime for a company if they respected me, treated me good, appreciated my work, a happy employee is a efficient employee. and I must state I love AmazingAvery's downplaying of this article**insert sarcasm**. AA, please dude, I wouldnt be surprised if Funcom was doing this during AOC, in fact id bet $1,000 that they were overworking, pressuring, and threatening workers. working for a game company although fun, also has a dark side, abhorrent, abysmal working conditions.
I see through your BS AA. I respect you but your response in this post is typical rheortic downplaying the authencity of the accusations that FUNCOM has done in the past. several employees have come to testify that these accusations are in fact true, just like EA, FUncom will in fact suffer from a major lawsuit if they dont change their ways.
I wonder if its healthy for me to ever get a job in game development, id be damned if im forced working 90 hours a week continously and on top of that not pay me for my oVertime? Id sued their ass into bankruptcy. Im very vocal, I can imagine if i said soemthing knowing funcoms typical response would turn into a lawsuit against them. If there is one thing I make sure to know,is my employment/labor rights.sad pathetic state of events.
There is no BS there mate, I linked further info, up to you if you only want to see what you want to. It is an important and serious matter, please do not think that I think otherwise. I am sure there was pressure during AoC development, infact I would expect it. I can label most jobs I have been in as abysmal working conditions from the simple fact that mgmt were tough and put the pressure on, I am also sure this happens outside of the industry too.
Simple fact is they have no been proven to be in the wrong yet, so stop with the assumptions and wait till the new year when 2 cases are heard in an official capacity from the governing body responsible in that area in Norway.
Like I said if you read what I wrote most of it came from elsewhere recent news to get the bigger picture.
On one hand you have some employee's saying that things were bad, on the other you have another saying things were alright except some management attitudes (during AoC development I might add) and if you have a third hand the companies repsonse is that they are working with the right people and recently got voted a decent place to work in Norway (company spin) - still all facts though.
Try going to med school. 24hr shifts and you are dealing with people's lives
That said. A lot of industries have situations where you 'have' to work overtime just to keep up with your peers. Mgmt loves it if they can get employees competing against each other.
My guess is the lazy welfare mentality people got left behind by the dedicated workers and now are throwing a hissy. I know Bioware used to laugh about spending 10 days straight in the office so they can get a game out on time.
why do people who voice concerns on being overworked got to be lazy and welfare recipents?? nice ignorant response buddy. my grief isnt so much the overtime as it is the fear of not getting paid for my work. if i work 20 hours OT,i expect to be paid, no excuses, no negoiations, if it runs on, and i keep tabs where i tally 1,000 hours of OT, be rest assureed id sue for it.. if you dont, then your idiot and glutton for punishment encouraging management to mistreat their employees further.
there is dedication and then there is stupidity.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
It's quite outstanding that most of the time people speak about the "company" as an intelligent almost-human being, which is "lying", "doing", "pressuring", "threatening" etc.
And it's not only in this paticular case. Be it EA or Funcom, Flagship or Sigil - this kind of atomic treatment is very common.
And it's quite convenient (and for the speculations in particular). You can not blame 1/3rd of the person, for example. When you build your judgment - it's either bad, good or inbetween. But it always relates to this abstract alive being as a whole.
Real life is much more complex, however.
A company, and especially a big one, which produces goods with an extremely high creative and intellectual involvement, is a very complex system.
It is not a person, not a human being, it is a system. Which, ironically enough, genuinely depends on the concrete human beings, this time real ones, alive.
If you read all these articles carefully again, there is a common pattern: all of the correponding ex-employees seem to have had a bad experience with the certain elements of the forementioned system (that is, certain management people), but not with the company itself.
Also they say, that "things have certainly changed" since then.
And it's also not surprising, because it happens quite often that in some ill-formed complex system it's just enough to gently pull and break several bad dependencies, remove some poisoned elements, and then eventually observe that system shapes itself into something new and healthy.
We'll see.
There are 3-4 former FunCom employees that worked on AO and AoC who are MMORPG.com members.
While they didn't go into specifics, they had all quit because of management and ethics issues.
You could try and chalk it up to sour grapes if they had been fired, but they all chose to leave and FunCom wasn't the first dev house they had worked for, and not their last.
Sounds to me like these allegations probably hold water.
I don't even want to think about what it must be like to work at their programming house in China. (I have done work in China's special economic zones, the way a lot of workers are treated would blow your mind)