no surprise here. Check how they treat ppl in their offitial forums .. If a company does that to their costumers, imagine what will do to their employees.
My simpathy to the fellow programmers, game designers and workers affected at FailCom.
no surprise here. Check how they treat ppl in their offitial forums .. If a company does that to their costumers, imagine what will do to their employees. My simpathy to the fellow programmers, game designers and workers affected at FailCom.
And exactly how do they treat their customers on the forums then?
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC) On my radar: TSW, MO MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Your right I know nothing of the game development or making it, but I have worked with million pound budgets and deadlines before right from the floor up into management. I do not profess to understand the working conditions at Funcom, I can only comment on what I saw. I did also take that Sunday as an unscheduled trip up there, I did sit with a few people who all told me they could order food from where they wanted and after a certain time by law (or company policy) FC would pick up the bill for it. Whilst there on that day there were several employees from different area's all coming to collect food that was delivered (few more than 5 different places) - Anyway, I don't work there I can't profess for the in's and out's and workings. It does seem that things were bad a while back and have improved or focused in the right direction. I do not blame dev's either and I didn't think my posts read like that. My background has similarities that can mirror what sounds like the working conditions there and thats what I am relating off, experience. I used to be in HR in the past dealing with a couple of hundred employees too. I understand UK working of employement law and legislation in and out. Lets hope FC pull their finger out and make right any wrongs. I can appreciate some employee's issues, and I think we hope they get resolved properly and those that work there feel as comfortable as possible.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
I appreciate you and Lieven for posting in this thread and lending both personal experience and perspective to this topic. It was an honest and worthwhile read on several counts; and I think it speaks volumes of you both that you're not on here daily espousing negative views as people with your knowledge and insight certainly could.
Again, thanks for your posts and I'm sure many who are not on either extreme appreciate your honesty.
I am glad how this thread turned out, there were a few comments not needed but I am glad how it has gone overall. Avery thanks for posting in the original thread informing them of this thread. As for those of you posting that are Ex FC staff thank you for giving us a bit of insight and I truely hope things work out for everyone in the end.
This is just more proof of what Funcom is. They treat their customers like crap, they treat their employees like crap, they lie, cheat and yes...steal to make a buck.
When is the rest of the mmo community gonna wake up and see this company for what it is? As I said in another thread, the guy running this dog and pony show called Funcom should be in jail for fraud.
Its gonna be a great day when this so called legitamate business goes under and they lock the doors for good.
This is just more proof of what Funcom is. They treat their customers like crap, they treat their employees like crap, they lie, cheat and yes...steal to make a buck. When is the rest of the mmo community gonna wake up and see this company for what it is? As I said in another thread, the guy running this dog and pony show called Funcom should be in jail for fraud. Its gonna be a great day when this so called legitamate business goes under and they lock the doors for good.
This is just more proof that the truth is in the eyes of the beholder.
And that would be fine, if people were beholding whatever distorted truth they wish without spewing too much of the the crap (or, ponies and butterflies, for that matter) back . But Internet makes this kind of spewing much easier, and one usually doesn't trouble himself enough to reflect on his own judgement before starting to shout aloud in extremely assertive way.
You say that "they lie, cheat, steal, treat people like crap and deserve to die"?..
You know what? I say that it's very far from being that. And believe it or not, I have more objective knowledge about the matters at hand than you.
Go figure the truth... oh wait, you say it so many times, and I don't, so the truth must be yours... right? right?
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
LOL. He is not only using this story as reference for his arguments, he is mainly using his own experience in the company.
However, I happen to know a couple of Funcom guys that know the "Tomahawk guy" aswell as "Theodor" and from what I hear they are both talented people that give everything they've got to their workplace. Osman revamped the AO engine, made it look a lot more up to date, added some really nice features on his own initiative in his spare time and after that his bosses took the credit for all of it. Useless?
I've been following Funcom for a while now and I've counted 20 or so different devs and ex-devs that says mainly the same stuff. Coinsidense? How many more must there be that has experienced the same stuff, but just don't talk about it in public?
My god this made me laugh. Such sentimental nonsense.
1. For starters. Who tha hell use all his sparetime to work (revamp AO). Nobody asked this guy to do it, he just went ahead and did it with the hope that, yupp they sure gona give me a tremendous bonus now. That's completely idiotic. You can't go ahead and do that. No wonder he is disappointed. If he tought he would get promoted to GD by acting crazy, it's no wonder he is disappointed now. The workers reality just caught up with him. FC has no obligation to pay, bow, suck up, pay lots of lots of money to people fcking around in their offices at evening time. lol, this is just too much.
2. 20 unhappy workers. Oh, I guess I just should belive you... NOT. Ref please.
3. I like that FC fire inefficient developers. Thats how we get the highest efficiency in the workplace. It's not good to have a bunch of nerds sosializing with eachother in the office every night. Fire them, get a professional and efficient workforce in place. Thats what I feel FC have going now, hence all the new content and the game shaping very nicely up.
4. So The Mohawk Man, was disappointed over how little his boss appreciated his work. De Ja Vu... Let us all call Opera or nearest tabloid paper right away to get some crytime in public. My god how pathetic. Get over it.
I also need to point out that Osman did not get fired, he willingly left himself.
LOL. Well if you call it left willingly, that FC offered him a "package to leave"... My god, when someone pay to get ridd of you, thats when you should take the hint and realize that you are kind of dead weight.
What I also want to note though, that nobody really seem to be a problem, Mr. Mohawk first says yes to the "leavebonus", to walk out of that door and let bygons be bygons. ANd then he starts to mess around with LO, ET,UFO, MICKEYMOUSE, MARS and all other funnines in the universe to get his job back...LOL, sounds more like he took the red pill, but then he came out of the building and also wanted the blue pill (which would be to continue, his very very bad job at FCs). This in my opinion very pathetic.
Your right I know nothing of the game development or making it, but I have worked with million pound budgets and deadlines before right from the floor up into management. I do not profess to understand the working conditions at Funcom, I can only comment on what I saw. I did also take that Sunday as an unscheduled trip up there, I did sit with a few people who all told me they could order food from where they wanted and after a certain time by law (or company policy) FC would pick up the bill for it. Whilst there on that day there were several employees from different area's all coming to collect food that was delivered (few more than 5 different places) - Anyway, I don't work there I can't profess for the in's and out's and workings. It does seem that things were bad a while back and have improved or focused in the right direction. I do not blame dev's either and I didn't think my posts read like that. My background has similarities that can mirror what sounds like the working conditions there and thats what I am relating off, experience. I used to be in HR in the past dealing with a couple of hundred employees too. I understand UK working of employement law and legislation in and out. Lets hope FC pull their finger out and make right any wrongs. I can appreciate some employee's issues, and I think we hope they get resolved properly and those that work there feel as comfortable as possible.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Your right I know nothing of the game development or making it, but I have worked with million pound budgets and deadlines before right from the floor up into management. I do not profess to understand the working conditions at Funcom, I can only comment on what I saw. I did also take that Sunday as an unscheduled trip up there, I did sit with a few people who all told me they could order food from where they wanted and after a certain time by law (or company policy) FC would pick up the bill for it. Whilst there on that day there were several employees from different area's all coming to collect food that was delivered (few more than 5 different places) - Anyway, I don't work there I can't profess for the in's and out's and workings. It does seem that things were bad a while back and have improved or focused in the right direction. I do not blame dev's either and I didn't think my posts read like that. My background has similarities that can mirror what sounds like the working conditions there and thats what I am relating off, experience. I used to be in HR in the past dealing with a couple of hundred employees too. I understand UK working of employement law and legislation in and out. Lets hope FC pull their finger out and make right any wrongs. I can appreciate some employee's issues, and I think we hope they get resolved properly and those that work there feel as comfortable as possible.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
Nope, I have worked with inefficient workers before, that think "yes we are good workers because we blast the full evening at work". I have worked with people that don't mind in fact because they have little else going on in their life. It's sad, but at the same time it is also very bad for the working environment. I am a guy working with something I like and with something that I have talent for. I do however still make sure I get out of the door latest by 5 PM. Yupp, had many promotions too, what do you think the sleep-at-work-crowd think about that? Well they hate it, they hate me, hate my boss and what not. We are cleaning out now in fact. We need people that actually are able to produce something in those 8 hours they are at work. It BS to stick to people that work on the basis of the Mohawk guy in FC with others.
Your right I know nothing of the game development or making it, but I have worked with million pound budgets and deadlines before right from the floor up into management. I do not profess to understand the working conditions at Funcom, I can only comment on what I saw. I did also take that Sunday as an unscheduled trip up there, I did sit with a few people who all told me they could order food from where they wanted and after a certain time by law (or company policy) FC would pick up the bill for it. Whilst there on that day there were several employees from different area's all coming to collect food that was delivered (few more than 5 different places) - Anyway, I don't work there I can't profess for the in's and out's and workings. It does seem that things were bad a while back and have improved or focused in the right direction. I do not blame dev's either and I didn't think my posts read like that. My background has similarities that can mirror what sounds like the working conditions there and thats what I am relating off, experience. I used to be in HR in the past dealing with a couple of hundred employees too. I understand UK working of employement law and legislation in and out. Lets hope FC pull their finger out and make right any wrongs. I can appreciate some employee's issues, and I think we hope they get resolved properly and those that work there feel as comfortable as possible.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
Nope, I have worked with the inefficient kind that think, yes we are good workers because we blast the full evening at work. I have worked with people that don't mind in fact because they have little else going on in their life. It's sad, but at the same time it is also very bad for the working environment. I am a guy working with something I like and are talented for. I do however still make sure I get out of the door latest by 5 PM. Yupp, had many promotions too, what do you think the sleep at work crowd think about that. Well they hate it, they hate me, hate my boss and what not. We are cleaning out now in fact. We need people that actually fcking are able to produce something in those 8 hours they are at work. It BS to stick to people that work on the basis of the Mohawk guy with others.
I love how you assume the so called mohawk guy to be useless. But Ignorance of facts is popualr amongst both the fanbois and the trolls I guess.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC) On my radar: TSW, MO MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Your right I know nothing of the game development or making it, but I have worked with million pound budgets and deadlines before right from the floor up into management. I do not profess to understand the working conditions at Funcom, I can only comment on what I saw. I did also take that Sunday as an unscheduled trip up there, I did sit with a few people who all told me they could order food from where they wanted and after a certain time by law (or company policy) FC would pick up the bill for it. Whilst there on that day there were several employees from different area's all coming to collect food that was delivered (few more than 5 different places) - Anyway, I don't work there I can't profess for the in's and out's and workings. It does seem that things were bad a while back and have improved or focused in the right direction. I do not blame dev's either and I didn't think my posts read like that. My background has similarities that can mirror what sounds like the working conditions there and thats what I am relating off, experience. I used to be in HR in the past dealing with a couple of hundred employees too. I understand UK working of employement law and legislation in and out. Lets hope FC pull their finger out and make right any wrongs. I can appreciate some employee's issues, and I think we hope they get resolved properly and those that work there feel as comfortable as possible.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
Nope, I have worked with the inefficient kind that think, yes we are good workers because we blast the full evening at work. I have worked with people that don't mind in fact because they have little else going on in their life. It's sad, but at the same time it is also very bad for the working environment. I am a guy working with something I like and are talented for. I do however still make sure I get out of the door latest by 5 PM. Yupp, had many promotions too, what do you think the sleep at work crowd think about that. Well they hate it, they hate me, hate my boss and what not. We are cleaning out now in fact. We need people that actually fcking are able to produce something in those 8 hours they are at work. It BS to stick to people that work on the basis of the Mohawk guy with others.
I love how you assume the so called mohawk guy to be useless. But Ignorance of facts is popualr amongst both the fanbois and the trolls I guess.
I am not assuming anything. But you are setting yourself up for a major meltdown if you start to work 12 hours or more a day and take it for granted that you will be promoted to superstar for it. It's the ultimate way to get demotivated, eventually useless and finally fired. Don't do it, this is reality, this is professional work, not university or basement time.
I really like your theory, and generally completely agree with you, only thing is that the situation with Funcom and Osman is completely different from this, so please stup making assumptions about things you have no clue about.
^^ I really like your theory, and generally completely agree with you, only thing is that the situation with Funcom and Osman is completely different from this, so please stup making assumptions about things you have no clue about.
Ok ,good we agree on something. But you have to realize, I was not the one taking this discussion out in public in the first place. Given the available information, I see what I pretty much stated as clearly as possible above. I am very much against the kind of immaturity this guy with the Mohawk seem to have demonstrated in this particular case. I think it would be good for him to lett this FC thing go now, and start to work somewhere else. If he truly has what it takes it should not be difficut for him.
As Arnold himself said, "Stop Whining!" (I'm sure there was a ridiculous Austrian-accented "AARGHH" in there too) -(Kindergarten Cop).
Sounds to me like a lot of these people may have chosen the wrong industry to work in. If you can't handle the way they do business, get the f*** out. Or, become the boss and change the way things are done. Then again, maybe you just go to work for someone else. It's only that simple.
It's hard to have sympathy for someone who allows someone else to treat them like shit with no recourse. Yeah, I know some of those have families to think about and they're just stuck, but maybe they should have done more research on the company they were going to work for. Interviews are meant to go two ways - the applicant needs to interview the company as well. Way too many people are ignorant of, or forget that.
It might be very easy if you are willing to move to another country to develop games, but for those who have family that have job here and maybe kids too, just mooving to another country isn't something you do over night. Funcom is breaking the laws when people work overtime without getting paid, it's easy to say that is how the businiess is, but still they have to follow the laws.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC) On my radar: TSW, MO MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Overtime and stress for deadlines is one thing, but I don't think that was really the biggest problem with Funcom. Thing is that there was a lot of frustration inside the company, on all levels. Of course you had lots of employees that where frustrated by certain things, or the way they were threated by management. But also management was clearly very frustrated, as they must have felt really powerless to see things slip away and break apart all the time. And it happened a lot that they just needed to release their frustration on employees. And with that I don't mean just criticizing someone, but really nasty below the belt remarks, or just random comments like "yea, this or that guy is just fucking everything up" in front of other employees. And no matter how much deadlines or pressure there would be, I think that is just completely unacceptable.
Because just getting a new job is so easy It might be very easy if you are willing to move to another country to develop games, but for those who have family that have job here and maybe kids too, just mooving to another country isn't something you do over night. Funcom is breaking the laws when people work overtime without getting paid, it's easy to say that is how the businiess is, but still they have to follow the laws.
You see what you say there is the crux of the whole situation. FC never asked anybody to go nutto and work all the time. If a worker love his work so much that he rather stay and do his work all the time, does not mean he should and even less can he expect FC to start paying overtime. Anyone noodling around in the office at evening time unless asked to are there purely on their own initiative. NO PAY !
Sounds to me like a lot of these people may have chosen the wrong industry to work in. If you can't handle the way they do business, get the f*** out. Or, become the boss and change the way things are done. Then again, maybe you just go to work for someone else. It's only that simple. It's hard to have sympathy for someone who allows someone else to treat them like shit with no recourse. Yeah, I know some of those have families to think about and they're just stuck, but maybe they should have done more research on the company they were going to work for. Interviews are meant to go two ways - the applicant needs to interview the company as well. Way too many people are ignorant of, or forget that.
That is actually quite harsh and only looks at a situation from one side. I personally have not time for whiners. I have no time for people who constantly wave the book of work employment law in the face of an employer at the first sign of overtime.
As i have said, i have no problem with overtime, if it is required, if it is productive and if it is sensible. I don't even expect to be compensated for every little bit of overtime i put in.
But working extra becomes an issue when an employee no longer has any control over it. By that i don't mean he can't get up and walk out, but i mean when overtime becomes necessary due to bad management.
If you go back and read my second post on this thread, you will see one example of why overtime was necessary. Changing features, making months of work wasted, shortly before major milestones. I could give you quite a few examples where random game direction decissions have lead to literally hundreds of manhours being cut and wasted. Why do you think Conan had so many cut features? Why do you think Sieging and PvP was in a half finished state when it launched? Ymir's pass? That zone was worked on in early 2007 (in fact the basic world layout has not changed a lot since then) - it was cut in March 2007. The game is now in a state it should have been in at launch - and if it had been, it would have been a lot more fun and successfull.
To all of you who say "why did people not simply leave"? Well some did. Others had invested a lot of time and effort into the project and wanted to stay until it was done. The gamesindustry does not look kindly on people who jump ship before a project launches either, so from a CV point of view a lot decided to stay until launch or shortly after. Quite a few people did leave around launch time though - so they did leave when they had enough, and some of them moved quite far to find a new job.
As for Funcom firing people, i only know of 3 people who were fired - 2 during development, and 1 (Gaute) after launch. Everyone else left on their own accord. And there were some very very talented people on board and if you read the manual/credits of a few up coming games next year and compare it to the Age of Conan credits you will see that.
Now there is no need to be nasty here, and honestly i would hope that you guys don't need to talk badly about any developers at Funcom. You don't know them personally, you don't know really anything about the working conditions at Funcom, you do not know WHY people left and When. So read the posts, think what you will, but don't insult people.
You see what you say there is the crux of the whole situation. FC never asked anybody to go nutto and work all the time. If a worker love his work so much that he rather stay and do his work all the time, does not mean he should and even less can he expect FC to start paying overtime. Anyone noodling around in the office at evening time unless asked to are there purely on their own initiative. NO PAY !
Sorry but did you work at FC?
Because Funcom DID ask people to work longer. In fact during crunch, which we were reminded of several times a week in the morning, EVERYONE was asked to work longer, even if people had no tasks to support this. People were asked to stay in longer to display solidarity to those who had to work hard (particularly the rendering team in the end trying to get DX10 to work). If a team did not put enough overtime hours in (i.e. one of the level strike teams), the team lead would be pulled in by Gaute and given a hard time, and then the level team lead would filter that down to the team members.
There never was an email or anything WRITTEN saying "You need to work x hours of overtime" but we were told verbally more than once.
I don't think there were many people who stayed up to 20 hours a day because they loved their work so much...
I guess I started as a promising employee, of which they had really high expectations. I myself was a bit over courageous as well, and I ended up with a task that was a bit too big for someone who didn't know their code yet, so I grosly underestimated the amount of time it was going to cost. After some time, they took me off the task, and my reputation got a big blow. Then for the rest of the time, the things I got to do weren't really that important, but I did them fine. The feedback I got from my direct lead was fine, but mr Pål the technical director felt like it was still needed to keep destroying my reputation even further. Of course I got worried about this, so talked with my direct lead about it, and she said that I shouldn't worry, as the rest of management know what that guy was like, and they didn't really take him serious anyway. Then there was this meeting, where I got offered 3 months of pay if I would resign. Which of couse sucked. Then I started looking for a new job, and after some interviews with a certain company, they offered me a position as lead. I didn't take it though, for obvious reasons, but I figured that it was kinda important to understand where it went wrong at funcom, as the dots didn't really seem to connect any more. So I first contacted my previous lead, and later kjetil the hr dude, but they were just acting like they were dealing with an annoying customer, which finally turned me into the disgruntled little ex employee I am now.
The long version, which I'm currently writing is much more saucy, but I probably won't post it here anyway, as it may be a bit too personal on some stuff:).
Because just getting a new job is so easy It might be very easy if you are willing to move to another country to develop games, but for those who have family that have job here and maybe kids too, just mooving to another country isn't something you do over night. Funcom is breaking the laws when people work overtime without getting paid, it's easy to say that is how the businiess is, but still they have to follow the laws.
You see what you say there is the crux of the whole situation. FC never asked anybody to go nutto and work all the time. If a worker love his work so much that he rather stay and do his work all the time, does not mean he should and even less can he expect FC to start paying overtime. Anyone noodling around in the office at evening time unless asked to are there purely on their own initiative. NO PAY !
Ow, believe me, they don't even ask you to work overtime, they politely force you to do it. And not just a bit, but a lot.
As for Funcom firing people, i only know of 3 people who were fired - 2 during development, and 1 (Gaute) after launch. Everyone else left on their own accord. And there were some very very talented people on board and if you read the manual/credits of a few up coming games next year and compare it to the Age of Conan credits you will see that.
He, I guess nobody knows the exact number, but I think the famous 3 months pay for resign deal has been made far more often than you think.
Thing is that in my meeting, they actually tried to bring up "we need to think of a good way to tell the rest of the team". My immediate reaction was just "ow, they can just know the truth", so I guess they didn't bother to try to convince me further, but for most people I know that got "fired", they actually put up this whole show that it was so great working together, but that the employee decided to move on.
Comments
I also need to point out that Osman did not get fired, he willingly left himself.
no surprise here. Check how they treat ppl in their offitial forums .. If a company does that to their costumers, imagine what will do to their employees.
My simpathy to the fellow programmers, game designers and workers affected at FailCom.
And exactly how do they treat their customers on the forums then?
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Glad to see former employees come out of the wood work to post on this subject.
Maybe the Ostrichs will start to pull their heads out of the sand now. I know, I know wishful thinking.
" I know everything their is to know about FunCom I visited their Once "
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
I appreciate you and Lieven for posting in this thread and lending both personal experience and perspective to this topic. It was an honest and worthwhile read on several counts; and I think it speaks volumes of you both that you're not on here daily espousing negative views as people with your knowledge and insight certainly could.
Again, thanks for your posts and I'm sure many who are not on either extreme appreciate your honesty.
I am glad how this thread turned out, there were a few comments not needed but I am glad how it has gone overall. Avery thanks for posting in the original thread informing them of this thread. As for those of you posting that are Ex FC staff thank you for giving us a bit of insight and I truely hope things work out for everyone in the end.
This is just more proof of what Funcom is. They treat their customers like crap, they treat their employees like crap, they lie, cheat and yes...steal to make a buck.
When is the rest of the mmo community gonna wake up and see this company for what it is? As I said in another thread, the guy running this dog and pony show called Funcom should be in jail for fraud.
Its gonna be a great day when this so called legitamate business goes under and they lock the doors for good.
This is just more proof that the truth is in the eyes of the beholder.
And that would be fine, if people were beholding whatever distorted truth they wish without spewing too much of the the crap (or, ponies and butterflies, for that matter) back . But Internet makes this kind of spewing much easier, and one usually doesn't trouble himself enough to reflect on his own judgement before starting to shout aloud in extremely assertive way.
You say that "they lie, cheat, steal, treat people like crap and deserve to die"?..
You know what? I say that it's very far from being that. And believe it or not, I have more objective knowledge about the matters at hand than you.
Go figure the truth... oh wait, you say it so many times, and I don't, so the truth must be yours... right? right?
Today's world seriously lacks positive people.
LOL. He is not only using this story as reference for his arguments, he is mainly using his own experience in the company.
However, I happen to know a couple of Funcom guys that know the "Tomahawk guy" aswell as "Theodor" and from what I hear they are both talented people that give everything they've got to their workplace. Osman revamped the AO engine, made it look a lot more up to date, added some really nice features on his own initiative in his spare time and after that his bosses took the credit for all of it. Useless?
I've been following Funcom for a while now and I've counted 20 or so different devs and ex-devs that says mainly the same stuff. Coinsidense? How many more must there be that has experienced the same stuff, but just don't talk about it in public?
My god this made me laugh. Such sentimental nonsense.
1. For starters. Who tha hell use all his sparetime to work (revamp AO). Nobody asked this guy to do it, he just went ahead and did it with the hope that, yupp they sure gona give me a tremendous bonus now. That's completely idiotic. You can't go ahead and do that. No wonder he is disappointed. If he tought he would get promoted to GD by acting crazy, it's no wonder he is disappointed now. The workers reality just caught up with him. FC has no obligation to pay, bow, suck up, pay lots of lots of money to people fcking around in their offices at evening time. lol, this is just too much.
2. 20 unhappy workers. Oh, I guess I just should belive you... NOT. Ref please.
3. I like that FC fire inefficient developers. Thats how we get the highest efficiency in the workplace. It's not good to have a bunch of nerds sosializing with eachother in the office every night. Fire them, get a professional and efficient workforce in place. Thats what I feel FC have going now, hence all the new content and the game shaping very nicely up.
4. So The Mohawk Man, was disappointed over how little his boss appreciated his work. De Ja Vu... Let us all call Opera or nearest tabloid paper right away to get some crytime in public. My god how pathetic. Get over it.
LOL. Well if you call it left willingly, that FC offered him a "package to leave"... My god, when someone pay to get ridd of you, thats when you should take the hint and realize that you are kind of dead weight.
What I also want to note though, that nobody really seem to be a problem, Mr. Mohawk first says yes to the "leavebonus", to walk out of that door and let bygons be bygons. ANd then he starts to mess around with LO, ET,UFO, MICKEYMOUSE, MARS and all other funnines in the universe to get his job back...LOL, sounds more like he took the red pill, but then he came out of the building and also wanted the blue pill (which would be to continue, his very very bad job at FCs). This in my opinion very pathetic.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
Nope, I have worked with inefficient workers before, that think "yes we are good workers because we blast the full evening at work". I have worked with people that don't mind in fact because they have little else going on in their life. It's sad, but at the same time it is also very bad for the working environment. I am a guy working with something I like and with something that I have talent for. I do however still make sure I get out of the door latest by 5 PM. Yupp, had many promotions too, what do you think the sleep-at-work-crowd think about that? Well they hate it, they hate me, hate my boss and what not. We are cleaning out now in fact. We need people that actually are able to produce something in those 8 hours they are at work. It BS to stick to people that work on the basis of the Mohawk guy in FC with others.
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
Nope, I have worked with the inefficient kind that think, yes we are good workers because we blast the full evening at work. I have worked with people that don't mind in fact because they have little else going on in their life. It's sad, but at the same time it is also very bad for the working environment. I am a guy working with something I like and are talented for. I do however still make sure I get out of the door latest by 5 PM. Yupp, had many promotions too, what do you think the sleep at work crowd think about that. Well they hate it, they hate me, hate my boss and what not. We are cleaning out now in fact. We need people that actually fcking are able to produce something in those 8 hours they are at work. It BS to stick to people that work on the basis of the Mohawk guy with others.
I love how you assume the so called mohawk guy to be useless. But Ignorance of facts is popualr amongst both the fanbois and the trolls I guess.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
You working and managing million pound budgets has nothing to do with game development at all. And you can not compare that kind of project and budget mangement at all - i wish you could (because that would mean games would be run better), but you can't.
What do you think Funcom employees will say when you sit next to them at work? I wish i could dig out the emails from marketing that were sent out prior to ever visit we had. "Please tidy your desk, please have stuff on screen that works, please answer questions this way or that" - come on, you did not honestly think you'd get the full picture on a visit?
The places we got food from: Dolly's Pizza, Spice, Ring 222222, Room Service and one other (which i forgot). Sometimes one would be dropped for another. Unless you spent some time in Norway and at Funcom, i doubt you managed to tell apart the different food containers.
I kind of expect you to come back and trying to spin/defend what you said, but honestly mate the answer is: when it comes to this you have no clue. When it comes to Age of Conan, you probably know more about the game how it is now than myself or many others (even though you might look at it through rose tinted glasses).
I love the fact how people compare working at Funcom or game development with any other job. Sure there are always similarities, but please (and that's not just for Avery), unless you worked in the industry or at Funcom, don't pretend you know anything.
I know f*** all about investment banking, insurance, running a 5 star hotel or how people work at EA - so you won't see me talking about it.
But you sure as hell take a great confidence in the Mohawk guy that got fired from FunCom. You know, people can even get fired in Norway for incompetancy. Of course he's disapointed because they just fired his useless ass. End of story. I would not use a disgrunteled ex-worker's story as referance for your arguments.
Wow... So AmazingAvery actually has a rival in the "most blindly faithful to FC" department?
Amazing.
The guy is speaking from his *own* experiences working at FC, and from his *own* *first-hand* knowledge of what actually went on there.
What you posted in rebuttal is quite probably the most definitive example of intellectual dishonesty and/or willful ignorance I have ever seen displayed in these forums.
So... congrats for that... I guess.
Nope, I have worked with the inefficient kind that think, yes we are good workers because we blast the full evening at work. I have worked with people that don't mind in fact because they have little else going on in their life. It's sad, but at the same time it is also very bad for the working environment. I am a guy working with something I like and are talented for. I do however still make sure I get out of the door latest by 5 PM. Yupp, had many promotions too, what do you think the sleep at work crowd think about that. Well they hate it, they hate me, hate my boss and what not. We are cleaning out now in fact. We need people that actually fcking are able to produce something in those 8 hours they are at work. It BS to stick to people that work on the basis of the Mohawk guy with others.
I love how you assume the so called mohawk guy to be useless. But Ignorance of facts is popualr amongst both the fanbois and the trolls I guess.
I am not assuming anything. But you are setting yourself up for a major meltdown if you start to work 12 hours or more a day and take it for granted that you will be promoted to superstar for it. It's the ultimate way to get demotivated, eventually useless and finally fired. Don't do it, this is reality, this is professional work, not university or basement time.
^^
I really like your theory, and generally completely agree with you, only thing is that the situation with Funcom and Osman is completely different from this, so please stup making assumptions about things you have no clue about.
Ok ,good we agree on something.
But you have to realize, I was not the one taking this discussion out in public in the first place. Given the available information, I see what I pretty much stated as clearly as possible above. I am very much against the kind of immaturity this guy with the Mohawk seem to have demonstrated in this particular case. I think it would be good for him to lett this FC thing go now, and start to work somewhere else. If he truly has what it takes it should not be difficut for him.
As Arnold himself said, "Stop Whining!" (I'm sure there was a ridiculous Austrian-accented "AARGHH" in there too) -(Kindergarten Cop).
Sounds to me like a lot of these people may have chosen the wrong industry to work in. If you can't handle the way they do business, get the f*** out. Or, become the boss and change the way things are done. Then again, maybe you just go to work for someone else. It's only that simple.
It's hard to have sympathy for someone who allows someone else to treat them like shit with no recourse. Yeah, I know some of those have families to think about and they're just stuck, but maybe they should have done more research on the company they were going to work for. Interviews are meant to go two ways - the applicant needs to interview the company as well. Way too many people are ignorant of, or forget that.
Because just getting a new job is so easy
It might be very easy if you are willing to move to another country to develop games, but for those who have family that have job here and maybe kids too, just mooving to another country isn't something you do over night. Funcom is breaking the laws when people work overtime without getting paid, it's easy to say that is how the businiess is, but still they have to follow the laws.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Overtime and stress for deadlines is one thing, but I don't think that was really the biggest problem with Funcom. Thing is that there was a lot of frustration inside the company, on all levels. Of course you had lots of employees that where frustrated by certain things, or the way they were threated by management. But also management was clearly very frustrated, as they must have felt really powerless to see things slip away and break apart all the time. And it happened a lot that they just needed to release their frustration on employees. And with that I don't mean just criticizing someone, but really nasty below the belt remarks, or just random comments like "yea, this or that guy is just fucking everything up" in front of other employees. And no matter how much deadlines or pressure there would be, I think that is just completely unacceptable.
You see what you say there is the crux of the whole situation. FC never asked anybody to go nutto and work all the time. If a worker love his work so much that he rather stay and do his work all the time, does not mean he should and even less can he expect FC to start paying overtime. Anyone noodling around in the office at evening time unless asked to are there purely on their own initiative. NO PAY !
That is actually quite harsh and only looks at a situation from one side. I personally have not time for whiners. I have no time for people who constantly wave the book of work employment law in the face of an employer at the first sign of overtime.
As i have said, i have no problem with overtime, if it is required, if it is productive and if it is sensible. I don't even expect to be compensated for every little bit of overtime i put in.
But working extra becomes an issue when an employee no longer has any control over it. By that i don't mean he can't get up and walk out, but i mean when overtime becomes necessary due to bad management.
If you go back and read my second post on this thread, you will see one example of why overtime was necessary. Changing features, making months of work wasted, shortly before major milestones. I could give you quite a few examples where random game direction decissions have lead to literally hundreds of manhours being cut and wasted. Why do you think Conan had so many cut features? Why do you think Sieging and PvP was in a half finished state when it launched? Ymir's pass? That zone was worked on in early 2007 (in fact the basic world layout has not changed a lot since then) - it was cut in March 2007. The game is now in a state it should have been in at launch - and if it had been, it would have been a lot more fun and successfull.
To all of you who say "why did people not simply leave"? Well some did. Others had invested a lot of time and effort into the project and wanted to stay until it was done. The gamesindustry does not look kindly on people who jump ship before a project launches either, so from a CV point of view a lot decided to stay until launch or shortly after. Quite a few people did leave around launch time though - so they did leave when they had enough, and some of them moved quite far to find a new job.
As for Funcom firing people, i only know of 3 people who were fired - 2 during development, and 1 (Gaute) after launch. Everyone else left on their own accord. And there were some very very talented people on board and if you read the manual/credits of a few up coming games next year and compare it to the Age of Conan credits you will see that.
Now there is no need to be nasty here, and honestly i would hope that you guys don't need to talk badly about any developers at Funcom. You don't know them personally, you don't know really anything about the working conditions at Funcom, you do not know WHY people left and When. So read the posts, think what you will, but don't insult people.
Sorry but did you work at FC?
Because Funcom DID ask people to work longer. In fact during crunch, which we were reminded of several times a week in the morning, EVERYONE was asked to work longer, even if people had no tasks to support this. People were asked to stay in longer to display solidarity to those who had to work hard (particularly the rendering team in the end trying to get DX10 to work). If a team did not put enough overtime hours in (i.e. one of the level strike teams), the team lead would be pulled in by Gaute and given a hard time, and then the level team lead would filter that down to the team members.
There never was an email or anything WRITTEN saying "You need to work x hours of overtime" but we were told verbally more than once.
I don't think there were many people who stayed up to 20 hours a day because they loved their work so much...
And to give a short version of my story:
I guess I started as a promising employee, of which they had really high expectations. I myself was a bit over courageous as well, and I ended up with a task that was a bit too big for someone who didn't know their code yet, so I grosly underestimated the amount of time it was going to cost. After some time, they took me off the task, and my reputation got a big blow. Then for the rest of the time, the things I got to do weren't really that important, but I did them fine. The feedback I got from my direct lead was fine, but mr Pål the technical director felt like it was still needed to keep destroying my reputation even further. Of course I got worried about this, so talked with my direct lead about it, and she said that I shouldn't worry, as the rest of management know what that guy was like, and they didn't really take him serious anyway. Then there was this meeting, where I got offered 3 months of pay if I would resign. Which of couse sucked. Then I started looking for a new job, and after some interviews with a certain company, they offered me a position as lead. I didn't take it though, for obvious reasons, but I figured that it was kinda important to understand where it went wrong at funcom, as the dots didn't really seem to connect any more. So I first contacted my previous lead, and later kjetil the hr dude, but they were just acting like they were dealing with an annoying customer, which finally turned me into the disgruntled little ex employee I am now.
The long version, which I'm currently writing is much more saucy, but I probably won't post it here anyway, as it may be a bit too personal on some stuff:).
You see what you say there is the crux of the whole situation. FC never asked anybody to go nutto and work all the time. If a worker love his work so much that he rather stay and do his work all the time, does not mean he should and even less can he expect FC to start paying overtime. Anyone noodling around in the office at evening time unless asked to are there purely on their own initiative. NO PAY !
Ow, believe me, they don't even ask you to work overtime, they politely force you to do it. And not just a bit, but a lot.
As for Funcom firing people, i only know of 3 people who were fired - 2 during development, and 1 (Gaute) after launch. Everyone else left on their own accord. And there were some very very talented people on board and if you read the manual/credits of a few up coming games next year and compare it to the Age of Conan credits you will see that.
He, I guess nobody knows the exact number, but I think the famous 3 months pay for resign deal has been made far more often than you think.
Thing is that in my meeting, they actually tried to bring up "we need to think of a good way to tell the rest of the team". My immediate reaction was just "ow, they can just know the truth", so I guess they didn't bother to try to convince me further, but for most people I know that got "fired", they actually put up this whole show that it was so great working together, but that the employee decided to move on.