The way you described the game, you made it sound like the SIMs. And that is what made people love the game, it was a sandbox, not a linear driven grinder. Even to this day I can't find a game that even comes close to what the original SWG had going for it. The community on the server I was on was just awesome, never seen anything like it in a MMORPG. Now all that is just dead and buried. People forget that in a roleplaying game you are suppose to be playing a role. I do not consider running in circles, grinding xp and gold role playing.
So my answer is yes, SWG in the beginning was a great game. It had what people wanted in a RPG environment; but, that's all been stripped away and coated with alternative sweetners to make you assume you are enjoying it; but it's all a lie. lol
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change.
Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs.
It was mostly the same with PvP.
I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
I disagree with your final assesment of the pre-CU SWG game, since I think what was there was better than any of the sandbox style game before or since, but I fully agree with your reasoning behind it. The buffing system was completely broken, due to the fact that the resource spawns had much higher stats than what the developers intended. To display the competence of the developement team, by which i mean the original dev team, they decided to ignore the resource stats, the source of the problem, and focus on nerfing the rest of the game to address the problem. Not only did they not address the resource stats, but the acknowledged the fact that the resource stats were the problem, and then set about not fixing them, instead nerfing everything around it.
SWG could have been a great game, but it has had nothing but ncompetent developers from launch through today. The original developers were able to accidently produce a game with potential, but they lacked the abulity to realize that potential. The proceeding dev teams have inherited a game with a progressivley reduced potential, and succeeded in not achieving the diminished potnetial. Most of the time they have succeeded in reducing the game's potential further, until the current state, which lacks any potential to be a worthwhile game.
this is the only game where all these years later people still want it back. i can go into any mmo game forum and find people talking about the good old days....and the bad company that ruined it. it had imbalace issues,bugs,lack of content, etc.
the fact that so many look back on a incomplete game and pine for it is very telling on the market today.
I took SWG for granted. I didn't like the slow-paced combat but I loved the freedom.
Looking back now, I never could have predicted that we would go as long as we have without a sandbox worth playing. EVE is a good game butt it is limited to ship avatars only...
When the NGE hit most of who enjoy freedom had NO alternative. It has been pretty lame. Hopefully soon that will change.
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling. Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
Nonesense. There were constant hunting groups forming at the MO, Eisley or Lok to level up.
this is the only game where all these years later people still want it back. i can go into any mmo game forum and find people talking about the good old days....and the bad company that ruined it. it had imbalace issues,bugs,lack of content, etc. the fact that so many look back on a incomplete game and pine for it is very telling on the market today.
Imo, the reason's for such are: 1. Community (best in any mmo I've been in), 2. Star Wars, and 3. Potential. Add in that many feel SOE/LA 'took' the game and I think you have why so many feel so strongly about SWG still.
Personally, after JTL reasons 1 and 2 were the only things keeping me in the game. I lost any confidence in SOE/LA's ability and willingness to address core issues with the game; later the CU confirmed my thoughts (at least in the ability department).
On the bright side, at least we all learned not to give into 'Potential' any longer. I'd be willing to wager, Brad McQuaid wakes in cold sweats utter that word.
Hozloff, the only time I saw people 'grouped' at the Dantooine Mining (Grinding) Outpost was waiting in the buff lines.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
SWG was the greatest chat room created to-date. As a game, it was one of the more horribly implemented piles of garbiage I've had the pleasure of uninstalling. Had the game not been 'taken' I doubt few would bother discussing it today.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
Your experience regarding grouping greatly differed from mine.
I played on Ahazi, which in Pre-NGE times was one of the top 3 populated servers for SWG.
Grouping was quite frequent for numerous reasons, and the ones that come to mind readily:
Hunting Groups on Lok (uncommon), Dathomir (very common), Dantooine (very common), Yavin IV (uncommon). Even the "starter" worlds had good potential for grouping. Case in point was Tatooine, especially when Mos Eisley was mandated as the starting town for every new character. Small groups were regularly seen. It could be either new players (or new toons) grouping together for mutual assistance or a newbie being shown the ropes by a veteran. This happened on a far more regular basis than what I have seen on subsequent MMOs I have played.
Then there were planned groups, whether it was just with buddies or with a guild, to go into harder sections like the 'Vette, DWB, etc.
I also need to count the examples you gave for the Buff Line temp groups
And lastly the PvPers would frequently group in verious sizes. Yeah, there were alot of Lone Wolf PvPers, but they usually get chewed up by any group (unless the group were a bunch of noobs).
Krayt Hunting was a group affair in the earlier days of SWG, though I still remember when it came to a point people were soloing those. I want to say in the months past Publish 9 (y'know, make getting those Krayt Pearls easier for Jedi since that's what SOE was wanting to cater to). It was definitely in full swing by the time Jedi took over the game and when the CU finally hit.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Hi folks , been visiting this site for a while but after seeing this thread i felt the need to register and make a post .
Many posters have already given detailed replies on what made pre CU SWG a truly amazing and groundbreaking game . I thought i would share a story which highlights the uniqueness of the community , the likes of which no other mmo i have played since can even compare .
I played on a relatively smaller server and most of the people knew each other . One of the more well known armour crafters who also happened to be the funniest and wittiest person i have ever spoken too suddenly stopped playing and posting in the forums .
A few days later one of her closest ingame friends informed the server via the forums that the person in question had been suffering from terminal cancer for a while and had passed away . As per her request he also posted a letter addressed to the server she had written right before the end was inevitable . As per her usual style the letter was funny and full of wit . She basically thanked everyone for the joy the game had given her during such a difficult time and recalled her best memories off swg .
For the next few days the entire server was in a state of extreme mourning , it actually felt the same way it does at a RL funeral . We all felt we should do something to honour her memory . We set up a online charity account in her name for which all proceeds would go to a well known cancer related charity . For every dollar you donated you would get a point , and the points could be spent to bid on items ingame in a auction that was going to be held .
All items in the auction were donated by people in the game . All the best weapons , armor , resources , schematics , rare items were donated and the auction was a roaring success . This happened a long time ago so i cant remember the exact amount but i believe we raised close to 7000 dollars for the charity .
To be honest I would have to say no. The game had the potential to be great. SOE's incompetence, lack of vision and horrible customer relations destroyed what could have been.
The game was flawed from the very begining. The huge amount of bugs, the lack of content at launch, and the fact that it had no noob zone really hurt this game from the get go. I ran in to a lot of people that just had no clue wtf was going on or what they were supposed to be doing. They got stuck on some planet with a horrible weapon and a melon and told to go make their way in the galaxy. Hard to do when you dont even have enough creds to get off of the planet. I am not saying the game should have held your hand like WoW but having no real noob zone was brutal and it drove people away.
SWG was one of the most unbalanced games I have ever played. Not the kind of unbalance that people whine about in WoW this was far worse. Combat Medic / Rifles with a little TK thrown in there was just about unstoppable. Hitting a pool that could not be healed with a crazy dot and then head shot with the rifles (i think it was called head shot) doesnt seem all that fair.
Dont get me wrong the game had some really different and cool things to offer to the player that could over look its many flaws. However with an IP like Star Wars I really expected more. I wont even get in to the Jedi thing.
Was SWG really that great of a game? Ever? To be honest I would have to say no. The game had the potential to be great. SOE's incompetence, lack of vision and horrible customer relations destroyed what could have been. The game was flawed from the very begining. The huge amount of bugs, the lack of content at launch, and the fact that it had no noob zone really hurt this game from the get go. I ran in to a lot of people that just had no clue wtf was going on or what they were supposed to be doing. They got stuck on some planet with a horrible weapon and a melon and told to go make their way in the galaxy. Hard to do when you dont even have enough creds to get off of the planet. I am not saying the game should have held your hand like WoW but having no real noob zone was brutal and it drove people away. SWG was one of the most unbalanced games I have ever played. Not the kind of unbalance that people whine about in WoW this was far worse. Combat Medic / Rifles with a little TK thrown in there was just about unstoppable. Hitting a pool that could not be healed with a crazy dot and then head shot with the rifles (i think it was called head shot) doesnt seem all that fair. Dont get me wrong the game had some really different and cool things to offer to the player that could over look its many flaws. However with an IP like Star Wars I really expected more. I wont even get in to the Jedi thing.
I agree starting out was pretty brutal. At one time you could pick your starting location, then SOE made it Mos Eisley only so new players wouldn't end up stuck in empty cities with no way out. I spent my first 3 days in game clone zerging all over Tat myself and got stuck for a day in a city up by the Krayt graveyard. I tried to make enough credits to shuttle out, but each mission paid like 50 credits and took 15 min to finish when all you had was a CDEF rifle, and the shuttle cost 900 credits. Surprisingly enough I never ran into a Krayt because I guess the spawn was broken then. I finally made it out of there by figuring out how to clone zerg my way back to where I wanted to be. I came across a load of empty player cities, and captital cites in the process that’s for sure. I had fun as a noob, I even had fun being lost, but some didn't. I'm not sure I would put up with it all again though. If it wasn't for the friends I made I wouldn't have lasted long in SWG before getting bored.
Looking back I can see why the game got such piss poor reviews. It’s like they got the IP, built the worlds, added some avatars, then tried to give it meaning by adding some lame content. Pre-cu was like Second Life with a Star Wars skin. NGE tried to fix it, but just made things worse.
I know I had fun when it was all new to me, but it was also my first real MMO so there was a lot to explore. I was a fan of pre-cu and I hate the NGE, but really, think hard. Was SWG really that deep? Go try "the project that shall not be named here" for a week or so and see what I mean. It was kinda boring when you think back and the people who played are what made it fun. After you had explored everywhere, done everything, was there really much keeping you around other than the people you knew?
What did we really do in SWG? You had jobs…. You would hunt critters, kill players, make stuff for people to do their jobs, go on pointless journeys to places that didn't really fit into the timeline (themeparks) and had awful stories, chat, or emote over and over repetitious dances or songs that got on everyone’s nerves. To be honest is any MMO really fun for any length of time? What’s missing from current MMOs that make then not fun? A bit of SWG, and an actual storyline that matters?
I think SWG was really just slapped together. There were things to do, but really you just played "a guy" living in the Star Wars world. It was pretty much a theme park that you lived in with little real content or point behind it. There were aspects that were and still may be fun, but it gets old, and with no one around to enjoy it with you, you might as well play a single player game.
Currently SWG is a load of bull. They have literally thrown everything including the kitchen sink into it. To be honest from a canon standpoint it’s just a mess. You got everything from the clone wars, to Old Republic era stuff in it, and they do a poor job explaining its existence in the game, other than “some guy found it”.
Looking back, the previous game wasn’t necessarily more complex; it just had more steps to take to get to the end result (timesinks). Many people had something to complain about when it came to SWG, be it the buggyness of it, or the time it took to do anything, the lack of new things to do, the imbalance or just the fact that it was stupid.
When you bought SWG was it everything they said it was gonna be, was it everything you expected it to be? If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now, would you even buy the game? Seriously. I might, but then again I might not.
Looking back, like you it was my first MMO and the exploration seemed vast and exciting. As the years went by and things started to become stale I began to realise that I wasn't really enjoying the game but felt an obligation to keep the community that I'd built using a guild and cities alive.
Played the game for 5 years and didn't always agree with the changes that were implemented but I stuck with it because I was addicted to an online world but essentially I ended up paying $15 a month for an interactive chat room.
My personal belief is that like all Star Wars games that are signed off by LA, SWG falls into the category of "it has a Star Wars license, that'll keep the fans happy - screw everything else" mentality that Lucas Arts seems to adopt. Very few Star Wars games live up to the name and certainly SWG didn't meet my expectations.
In a nutshell it was a wasted opportunity, focusing on bizarre areas of Star Wars whilst at the same time ignoring key and fundamental Star Wars canon from the time period in which it was set.
SWG was ambitious, but the constant change in dev leadership accompanied with a whole host of really bad decisions ruined its chances of ever being successful. Had it been in the right hands, WoW wouldn't have stood a chance - but I guess they have the dummies over at SOE to thank for their 10 million players.
I know I had fun when it was all new to me, but it was also my first real MMO so there was a lot to explore. I was a fan of pre-cu and I hate the NGE, but really, think hard. Was SWG really that deep? Go try "the project that shall not be named here" for a week or so and see what I mean. It was kinda boring when you think back and the people who played are what made it fun. After you had explored everywhere, done everything, was there really much keeping you around other than the people you knew?
What did we really do in SWG? You had jobs…. You would hunt critters, kill players, make stuff for people to do their jobs, go on pointless journeys to places that didn't really fit into the timeline (themeparks) and had awful stories, chat, or emote over and over repetitious dances or songs that got on everyone’s nerves. To be honest is any MMO really fun for any length of time? What’s missing from current MMOs that make then not fun? A bit of SWG, and an actual storyline that matters?
I think SWG was really just slapped together. There were things to do, but really you just played "a guy" living in the Star Wars world. It was pretty much a theme park that you lived in with little real content or point behind it. There were aspects that were and still may be fun, but it gets old, and with no one around to enjoy it with you, you might as well play a single player game.
Currently SWG is a load of bull. They have literally thrown everything including the kitchen sink into it. To be honest from a canon standpoint it’s just a mess. You got everything from the clone wars, to Old Republic era stuff in it, and they do a poor job explaining its existence in the game, other than “some guy found it”.
Looking back, the previous game wasn’t necessarily more complex; it just had more steps to take to get to the end result (timesinks). Many people had something to complain about when it came to SWG, be it the buggyness of it, or the time it took to do anything, the lack of new things to do, the imbalance or just the fact that it was stupid.
When you bought SWG was it everything they said it was gonna be, was it everything you expected it to be? If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now, would you even buy the game? Seriously. I might, but then again I might not.
Looking back, like you it was my first MMO and the exploration seemed vast and exciting. As the years went by and things started to become stale I began to realise that I wasn't really enjoying the game but felt an obligation to keep the community that I'd built using a guild and cities alive.
Played the game for 5 years and didn't always agree with the changes that were implemented but I stuck with it because I was addicted to an online world but essentially I ended up paying $15 a month for an interactive chat room.
My personal belief is that like all Star Wars games that are signed off by LA, SWG falls into the category of "it has a Star Wars license, that'll keep the fans happy - screw everything else" mentality that Lucas Arts seems to adopt. Very few Star Wars games live up to the name and certainly SWG didn't meet my expectations.
In a nutshell it was a wasted opportunity, focusing on bizarre areas of Star Wars whilst at the same time ignoring key and fundamental Star Wars canon from the time period in which it was set.
SWG was ambitious, but the constant change in dev leadership accompanied with a whole host of really bad decisions ruined its chances of ever being successful. Had it been in the right hands, WoW wouldn't have stood a chance - but I guess they have the dummies over at SOE to thank for their 10 million players.
I agree, it could have been a great game. I also have this theory that it was the time setting they chose. While popular with the 30-45year old age group of males, it fell short with the mass appeal to female and younger males who view the Star Wars sequels (ep 3-6 era) as old school and uncool. I guess we could argue the fact that it's nice not havimg to dealt with as much of that demographic, it also kept away that potential player base which is actually huge judging by the amount of WoW players. This is why I think TOR is more on the generational mark; it spans all age and gender demographics better than SWG ever did or ever will.
I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change. Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs. It was mostly the same with PvP. I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
You're right of course in that SoE sould have made changes to ensure that when you were buffed you couldn't be a one-man wrecking crew in PvE. However you did have the option of not buffing up and experiencing combat how it was actually meant to be. That option was up to you, nobody forced you to buff. And BTW you couldn't use "overpowered" weapons and high resist armor when un-buffed due to encumbrance, therefore combat was that much more difficult and exciting.
Purchasing from others is a form of interdependency - even if it was cosmetic (i.e. image designer).
*upon further reflection I'd have to say that with your pre-occupation with self-sufficiency implies to me that it's more likely that you did rely on inter-dependency. How efficient would you have been without doc/entertainer buffs? Master Artisan crafted weapon power-ups? Chef supplied foods? Architectual houses and harvestors? Doctor crafted stim-paks?
If you didn't rely on many of these things to be more "efficient" then it's likely that you were content to kill durnis for 2 years - which of course is ok if that's all you wanted from this Star Wars society.
Heh ... I think we just agreed.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Comments
The way you described the game, you made it sound like the SIMs. And that is what made people love the game, it was a sandbox, not a linear driven grinder. Even to this day I can't find a game that even comes close to what the original SWG had going for it. The community on the server I was on was just awesome, never seen anything like it in a MMORPG. Now all that is just dead and buried. People forget that in a roleplaying game you are suppose to be playing a role. I do not consider running in circles, grinding xp and gold role playing.
So my answer is yes, SWG in the beginning was a great game. It had what people wanted in a RPG environment; but, that's all been stripped away and coated with alternative sweetners to make you assume you are enjoying it; but it's all a lie. lol
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
But you did have a choice to do those things without buffs which would have made it a much tougher game. You're blaming the mechanics of the game when in fact it was the buffs you used that made combat boring for you.
Why wouldn't I blame the mechanics of the game? That's what SOE offered and refused to change.
Sure I could've chosen to fight Krayts as a pistoleer in bone armor, but why? Combat wasn't challenging, it was either a matter of time (ie. template build) or over powered gear/buffs.
It was mostly the same with PvP.
I'm sorry, but the onus is on the designer to create a challenging game, not the player.
I disagree with your final assesment of the pre-CU SWG game, since I think what was there was better than any of the sandbox style game before or since, but I fully agree with your reasoning behind it. The buffing system was completely broken, due to the fact that the resource spawns had much higher stats than what the developers intended. To display the competence of the developement team, by which i mean the original dev team, they decided to ignore the resource stats, the source of the problem, and focus on nerfing the rest of the game to address the problem. Not only did they not address the resource stats, but the acknowledged the fact that the resource stats were the problem, and then set about not fixing them, instead nerfing everything around it.
SWG could have been a great game, but it has had nothing but ncompetent developers from launch through today. The original developers were able to accidently produce a game with potential, but they lacked the abulity to realize that potential. The proceeding dev teams have inherited a game with a progressivley reduced potential, and succeeded in not achieving the diminished potnetial. Most of the time they have succeeded in reducing the game's potential further, until the current state, which lacks any potential to be a worthwhile game.
this is the only game where all these years later people still want it back. i can go into any mmo game forum and find people talking about the good old days....and the bad company that ruined it. it had imbalace issues,bugs,lack of content, etc.
the fact that so many look back on a incomplete game and pine for it is very telling on the market today.
I took SWG for granted. I didn't like the slow-paced combat but I loved the freedom.
Looking back now, I never could have predicted that we would go as long as we have without a sandbox worth playing. EVE is a good game butt it is limited to ship avatars only...
When the NGE hit most of who enjoy freedom had NO alternative. It has been pretty lame. Hopefully soon that will change.
Tecmo Bowl.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
Nonesense. There were constant hunting groups forming at the MO, Eisley or Lok to level up.
Imo, the reason's for such are: 1. Community (best in any mmo I've been in), 2. Star Wars, and 3. Potential. Add in that many feel SOE/LA 'took' the game and I think you have why so many feel so strongly about SWG still.
Personally, after JTL reasons 1 and 2 were the only things keeping me in the game. I lost any confidence in SOE/LA's ability and willingness to address core issues with the game; later the CU confirmed my thoughts (at least in the ability department).
On the bright side, at least we all learned not to give into 'Potential' any longer. I'd be willing to wager, Brad McQuaid wakes in cold sweats utter that word.
Hozloff, the only time I saw people 'grouped' at the Dantooine Mining (Grinding) Outpost was waiting in the buff lines.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
What? You had problems with players talking and interacting with each other in the old SWG more than almost all current MMOs today? In a day and age of MMOs where people barely form up for groups? And if they do, greetings are the extent of communication. When the short-term task is done, the group disintegrates with barely even a goodbye from any members? MMOs where players don't really need each other for anything? Might as well be single-player console RPGs.
The game had massive problems in the Pre-CU/NGE days. Not even the most hardcore fan of that era cannot deny that. But the game gave far more possiblities and avenues of gameplay to go down than most MMOs these days.
I think you misunderstood my post. SWG was great for interacting with players, but most of it was done in chat. Cantinas, for example, were a great place to simply hang-out.
As for grouping though ... hardly. Other than the occasional guild hunt or event, most of the players were doing things solo. Between armor, templates, and generally borked mechanics I had no reason to group with anyone to do most anything. For example, I had no issue solo'ing Krayts and I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Sure SWG had lots to do, but either those things were broken or too simple to bother with on a recurring basis.
Your experience regarding grouping greatly differed from mine.
I played on Ahazi, which in Pre-NGE times was one of the top 3 populated servers for SWG.
Grouping was quite frequent for numerous reasons, and the ones that come to mind readily:
Hunting Groups on Lok (uncommon), Dathomir (very common), Dantooine (very common), Yavin IV (uncommon). Even the "starter" worlds had good potential for grouping. Case in point was Tatooine, especially when Mos Eisley was mandated as the starting town for every new character. Small groups were regularly seen. It could be either new players (or new toons) grouping together for mutual assistance or a newbie being shown the ropes by a veteran. This happened on a far more regular basis than what I have seen on subsequent MMOs I have played.
Then there were planned groups, whether it was just with buddies or with a guild, to go into harder sections like the 'Vette, DWB, etc.
I also need to count the examples you gave for the Buff Line temp groups
And lastly the PvPers would frequently group in verious sizes. Yeah, there were alot of Lone Wolf PvPers, but they usually get chewed up by any group (unless the group were a bunch of noobs).
Krayt Hunting was a group affair in the earlier days of SWG, though I still remember when it came to a point people were soloing those. I want to say in the months past Publish 9 (y'know, make getting those Krayt Pearls easier for Jedi since that's what SOE was wanting to cater to). It was definitely in full swing by the time Jedi took over the game and when the CU finally hit.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Hi folks , been visiting this site for a while but after seeing this thread i felt the need to register and make a post .
Many posters have already given detailed replies on what made pre CU SWG a truly amazing and groundbreaking game . I thought i would share a story which highlights the uniqueness of the community , the likes of which no other mmo i have played since can even compare .
I played on a relatively smaller server and most of the people knew each other . One of the more well known armour crafters who also happened to be the funniest and wittiest person i have ever spoken too suddenly stopped playing and posting in the forums .
A few days later one of her closest ingame friends informed the server via the forums that the person in question had been suffering from terminal cancer for a while and had passed away . As per her request he also posted a letter addressed to the server she had written right before the end was inevitable . As per her usual style the letter was funny and full of wit . She basically thanked everyone for the joy the game had given her during such a difficult time and recalled her best memories off swg .
For the next few days the entire server was in a state of extreme mourning , it actually felt the same way it does at a RL funeral . We all felt we should do something to honour her memory . We set up a online charity account in her name for which all proceeds would go to a well known cancer related charity . For every dollar you donated you would get a point , and the points could be spent to bid on items ingame in a auction that was going to be held .
All items in the auction were donated by people in the game . All the best weapons , armor , resources , schematics , rare items were donated and the auction was a roaring success . This happened a long time ago so i cant remember the exact amount but i believe we raised close to 7000 dollars for the charity .
Was SWG really that great of a game? Ever?
To be honest I would have to say no. The game had the potential to be great. SOE's incompetence, lack of vision and horrible customer relations destroyed what could have been.
The game was flawed from the very begining. The huge amount of bugs, the lack of content at launch, and the fact that it had no noob zone really hurt this game from the get go. I ran in to a lot of people that just had no clue wtf was going on or what they were supposed to be doing. They got stuck on some planet with a horrible weapon and a melon and told to go make their way in the galaxy. Hard to do when you dont even have enough creds to get off of the planet. I am not saying the game should have held your hand like WoW but having no real noob zone was brutal and it drove people away.
SWG was one of the most unbalanced games I have ever played. Not the kind of unbalance that people whine about in WoW this was far worse. Combat Medic / Rifles with a little TK thrown in there was just about unstoppable. Hitting a pool that could not be healed with a crazy dot and then head shot with the rifles (i think it was called head shot) doesnt seem all that fair.
Dont get me wrong the game had some really different and cool things to offer to the player that could over look its many flaws. However with an IP like Star Wars I really expected more. I wont even get in to the Jedi thing.
I agree starting out was pretty brutal. At one time you could pick your starting location, then SOE made it Mos Eisley only so new players wouldn't end up stuck in empty cities with no way out. I spent my first 3 days in game clone zerging all over Tat myself and got stuck for a day in a city up by the Krayt graveyard. I tried to make enough credits to shuttle out, but each mission paid like 50 credits and took 15 min to finish when all you had was a CDEF rifle, and the shuttle cost 900 credits. Surprisingly enough I never ran into a Krayt because I guess the spawn was broken then. I finally made it out of there by figuring out how to clone zerg my way back to where I wanted to be. I came across a load of empty player cities, and captital cites in the process that’s for sure. I had fun as a noob, I even had fun being lost, but some didn't. I'm not sure I would put up with it all again though. If it wasn't for the friends I made I wouldn't have lasted long in SWG before getting bored.
Looking back I can see why the game got such piss poor reviews. It’s like they got the IP, built the worlds, added some avatars, then tried to give it meaning by adding some lame content. Pre-cu was like Second Life with a Star Wars skin. NGE tried to fix it, but just made things worse.
Looking back, like you it was my first MMO and the exploration seemed vast and exciting. As the years went by and things started to become stale I began to realise that I wasn't really enjoying the game but felt an obligation to keep the community that I'd built using a guild and cities alive.
Played the game for 5 years and didn't always agree with the changes that were implemented but I stuck with it because I was addicted to an online world but essentially I ended up paying $15 a month for an interactive chat room.
My personal belief is that like all Star Wars games that are signed off by LA, SWG falls into the category of "it has a Star Wars license, that'll keep the fans happy - screw everything else" mentality that Lucas Arts seems to adopt. Very few Star Wars games live up to the name and certainly SWG didn't meet my expectations.
In a nutshell it was a wasted opportunity, focusing on bizarre areas of Star Wars whilst at the same time ignoring key and fundamental Star Wars canon from the time period in which it was set.
SWG was ambitious, but the constant change in dev leadership accompanied with a whole host of really bad decisions ruined its chances of ever being successful. Had it been in the right hands, WoW wouldn't have stood a chance - but I guess they have the dummies over at SOE to thank for their 10 million players.
Looking back, like you it was my first MMO and the exploration seemed vast and exciting. As the years went by and things started to become stale I began to realise that I wasn't really enjoying the game but felt an obligation to keep the community that I'd built using a guild and cities alive.
Played the game for 5 years and didn't always agree with the changes that were implemented but I stuck with it because I was addicted to an online world but essentially I ended up paying $15 a month for an interactive chat room.
My personal belief is that like all Star Wars games that are signed off by LA, SWG falls into the category of "it has a Star Wars license, that'll keep the fans happy - screw everything else" mentality that Lucas Arts seems to adopt. Very few Star Wars games live up to the name and certainly SWG didn't meet my expectations.
In a nutshell it was a wasted opportunity, focusing on bizarre areas of Star Wars whilst at the same time ignoring key and fundamental Star Wars canon from the time period in which it was set.
SWG was ambitious, but the constant change in dev leadership accompanied with a whole host of really bad decisions ruined its chances of ever being successful. Had it been in the right hands, WoW wouldn't have stood a chance - but I guess they have the dummies over at SOE to thank for their 10 million players.
I agree, it could have been a great game. I also have this theory that it was the time setting they chose. While popular with the 30-45year old age group of males, it fell short with the mass appeal to female and younger males who view the Star Wars sequels (ep 3-6 era) as old school and uncool. I guess we could argue the fact that it's nice not havimg to dealt with as much of that demographic, it also kept away that potential player base which is actually huge judging by the amount of WoW players. This is why I think TOR is more on the generational mark; it spans all age and gender demographics better than SWG ever did or ever will.
Heh ... I think we just agreed.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Yes.
If SWG was launched today, it would be utter crap.
When it was launched all those years ago, it was ahead of its time in graphics, concepts and gameplay.
It's all relative...