Gianna's part 7 preview up

Aragon100

http://beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/part7.html

Some interesting "facts" on alignment system -

 

"If you hit someone of your faction you go grey for a few minutes, and people can kill you without getting an alignment hit. You have to be careful where you’re aiming with your arrows and spells when you're fighting near strangers of your faction, since people can jump in front to make you go grey and kill you with impunity.

As for murder status, currently reputation with your own race can go from -100 to +100 and you start with +10. If you go under 0 you become red, i.e. you’re flagged as murderer and cannot go to formerly friendly guarded NPC cities without being attacked. If you kill someone of your own race, or of a friendly race, you lose 8 points. If you kill someone of an enemy race, you gain 2 points. The exception is someone of a clan that your clan is at war with – you can attack and kill each other anywhere, including in any guarded town, without reputation consequences regardless of faction .

I’m not going to write down my deductions of what thousands of people will do given this ruleset because I don’t have a crystal ball and I think that anyone can draw their own conclusions, but I find that it’s a reasonable system that gives a good incentive on not going red right from the start, since you can still kill your enemy neighbours and clans at war with yours, while at the same time it doesn’t make going red some sort of permanent exile sentence (unless you just don’t care and drop to -100 rep without ever trying to raise it), since you just need to kill enough faction enemies to go back to blue."

 

Nice to see there will be a  town for outlaws just like Buccaners Den in UO -

 

"Finally, there are hundreds of small islands as well as four smaller continents – which I haven’t explored. Reading general chat, though, I had the impression that the type of structures found in these areas consists mostly of claimable clanstones and chaos bindstones, but no vendor/bank camps – with one exception: Silvertown, which is a potential candidate to become the DF’s version of Bucaneer’s Den: a fully serviced neutral city on an island, complete with a bindstone. There may be more, but this one was the only one that I’ve heard mentioned again and again (I haven’t yet visited it). "

 

Aganazer

Bank Vendor Buy Guards! Oh my!

Thanks for posting this.

Kyleran

Another interesting read, thank's for posting this here.

I'm concerned about the griefing potential of players jumping in front of you to get a free chance to kill/loot you while you are gray.... seems a bit cheesy to me and is still the one mechanic in the game I don't care for.

Azrile

Originally posted by Kyleran


Another interesting read, thank's for posting this here.
I'm concerned about the griefing potential of players jumping in front of you to get a free chance to kill/loot you while you are gray.... seems a bit cheesy to me and is still the one mechanic in the game I don't care for.

 

Every game it was ever implemented in, it was exploited to no end.   The best player killers in the game will never get a murder count let alone go red.  There will be players who do nothing but follow other players around and just wait for the chance to jump in front of an arrow or step into an AOE spell.

The worst part of the system is, if you kill them, then YOU will get a murder count ( ie -8).

fagercraft

Seems there is infact a global chat or general chat within the game.

If Gianna is reading this, could you clarify more on the chat options in your next sneakpeak?

Where having a big discussion on it in another thread, input on that would be very hot .

 

Also it seems that ppl can infact jump into your shots to make you grey, i think its a bad thing but it seems pretty unavoidable to me. Guess il have to really be careful when out hunting solo to make sure no random lowlevel alts is trying to make me grey for a gank squad...

 

Thanks for the update as usual, and thenoobcomic rules! (followed it since start)!

Briansho

Sounds like they better implement item insurance before the   starts.

daarco

Good read.

But i dont understand how people can miss read everything she writes. I feel bad for her.

Azrile

Originally posted by daarco


Good read.
But i dont understand how people can miss read everything she writes. I feel bad for her.

 

yeah, I dont' know how anyone can not understand the whole reputation thing, since it is exactly what UO had.   Even the colors   Blue = good guy,  Grey = temp criminal,  Red = murderer

In UO, you had to kill 5 players before you went Red, it seems in DF, you will go red on your 2nd kill.

daarco

Originally posted by Briansho


Sounds like they better implement item insurance before the   starts.

 

 

he he, would be a really fun if people begun to whine about that now......after many years of knowing it already!

Roosevelt

This whole article screams one thing to me. "Stay In packs!"

SupderD

Originally posted by Aragon100


http://beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/part7.html
Some interesting "facts" on alignment system -
 
"If you hit someone of your faction you go grey for a few minutes, and people can kill you without getting an alignment hit. You have to be careful where you’re aiming with your arrows and spells when you're fighting near strangers of your faction, since people can jump in front to make you go grey and kill you with impunity.
As for murder status, currently reputation with your own race can go from -100 to +100 and you start with +10. If you go under 0 you become red, i.e. you’re flagged as murderer and cannot go to formerly friendly guarded NPC cities without being attacked. If you kill someone of your own race, or of a friendly race, you lose 8 points. If you kill someone of an enemy race, you gain 2 points. The exception is someone of a clan that your clan is at war with – you can attack and kill each other anywhere, including in any guarded town, without reputation consequences regardless of faction .
I’m not going to write down my deductions of what thousands of people will do given this ruleset because I don’t have a crystal ball and I think that anyone can draw their own conclusions, but I find that it’s a reasonable system that gives a good incentive on not going red right from the start, since you can still kill your enemy neighbours and clans at war with yours, while at the same time it doesn’t make going red some sort of permanent exile sentence (unless you just don’t care and drop to -100 rep without ever trying to raise it), since you just need to kill enough faction enemies to go back to blue."
 
Nice to see there will be a  town for outlaws just like Buccaners Den in UO -
 
"Finally, there are hundreds of small islands as well as four smaller continents – which I haven’t explored. Reading general chat, though, I had the impression that the type of structures found in these areas consists mostly of claimable clanstones and chaos bindstones, but no vendor/bank camps – with one exception: Silvertown, which is a potential candidate to become the DF’s version of Bucaneer’s Den: a fully serviced neutral city on an island, complete with a bindstone. There may be more, but this one was the only one that I’ve heard mentioned again and again (I haven’t yet visited it). "
 

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/216782

Same thing I predicted would happen..

Wizardry

Correct me if i am wrong,but have i understood this properly?

Tons of islands of 99/100 are uselss pieces of land?

The PVP part where you grey out after you hit one of your own,only psecified,that your own could hit you back with no aligment hit?why on earth would they want to hit there own alignment?out of revenge anger? lmao..defeats the purpose of have alignments.

How ill PVP work ,if say i make two accounts and i use one to just hit my own player,so i can keep killing my other account?after a but ,delete that player make a new one for my main to beat up on again,while all the time killing my own alignment?

 I hope i made it clear,that there is a deffinite flaw here bigtime.We all know how many times The american troops have accidentally killed their own allies,this means open season on those guys?again you can see the easy comparison and how dumb it is.

It sounds to me liek ther eis too many ideas to allow killing your alignment lmao,with nothing gerared towards the actual purpose of the game?to kil lthe opposite alignment,maybe just a thought?lol

LMAO ..who is designing this game? the FETA cheese emporium?

DrWiggly

One more clarification on the Rep system.

I accidentally hit someone or they jump in front of my weapon. I go gray, then they attack me, do they go gray to everyone else but me? Probably not, but in lineage 2 they did.

Also from reading other sources, it is a deliberate act to kill someone. It seemed to be that you could beat them into submission and then "choose" to deliver the killing blow. So if its just one guy trying to grief you, you can deal with them and not have to take the negative rep hit if you don't want it. Granted in the case of a planned gank you're screwed.

Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by daarco


Good read.
But i dont understand how people can miss read everything she writes. I feel bad for her.

 

yeah, I dont' know how anyone can not understand the whole reputation thing, since it is exactly what UO had.   Even the colors   Blue = good guy,  Grey = temp criminal,  Red = murderer

In UO, you had to kill 5 players before you went Red, it seems in DF, you will go red on your 2nd kill.

UO, AOC (modified), L1-2.

 

Azrile

Originally posted by DrWiggly


One more clarification on the Rep system.
I accidentally hit someone or they jump in front of my weapon. I go gray, then they attack me, do they go gray to everyone else but me? Probably not, but in lineage 2 they did.
Also from reading other sources, it is a deliberate act to kill someone. It seemed to be that you could beat them into submission and then "choose" to deliver the killing blow. So if its just one guy trying to grief you, you can deal with them and not have to take the negative rep hit if you don't want it. Granted in the case of a planned gank you're screwed.

 

No, they will not go grey to you or anyone else.  If you attack first (even if you did'nt mean to) you will go grey and they will stay blue.  It makes no sense to have any type of system if you go grey for defending yourself. PK's will just exploit that and get their friends to attack you as soon as you go grey.

Your second part is not true.  How are you 'not' going to deliver the killing blow.  Someone jumps in your AOE, you go grey and they attack you.  You actually are better than they are and get them down to 1% health.... then what?  That player is just going to keep attacking you until you kill them, at which point you will get a murder count ( -8).  I have heard nothing about a 'submission' system where you can disable a character without killing them.  Probably the best thing that you could do is stun them and run away fast.. and hope you don't bump into another player while you are grey.

The problem with the very simplistic system they are implementing is that the game code does not know if you purposefully are trying to kill a player, or if they stepped into your aoe by accident.  It treats both situations exactly the same.  If the devs put in a lot of ways to keep you from accidently going grey, then it's just going to give PKs more of a headstart when attacking players.    ie... how about if you don't go grey until you deal 10% damage? (this would prevent players from stepping in your aoe's).

The system is flawed because it is so simplisitic and tries to use computer code to figure out 'motive'.

7evenSteps

This game is guranteed failure

Aragon100

Originally posted by 7evenSteps


This game is guranteed failure

 

Care to elaborate abit?

Is it the possible griefing parts you dont like or what is it?

Alignment system?

7evenSteps

There's no point in elaborating.

The entire project is an overhyped failure. From it's graphics, to its animations , to its generic shitty looking gameplay,  to it's 150 beta testers testing it out 22 days before launch, to them having 80% of the games core features locked / blocked from said testers 22 days before launch.

Everything about this screams failure waiting to happen.

DarthRaiden

Originally posted by 7evenSteps


There's no point in elaborating.
The entire project is an overhyped failure. From it's graphics, to its animations , to its generic shitty looking gameplay,  to it's 150 beta testers testing it out 22 days before launch, to them having 80% of the games core features locked / blocked from said testers 22 days before launch.
Everything about this screams failure waiting to happen.

So you say it exists and is in beta tested by outside people..thats a progress 

All other characterizations about the game you given are entirely subjective..gameplay looks fantastic for example it gaves me goosebumps to watch the fighting scenes in the videos.

The tester say the game is stable and they have experienced the fewest crashes/bugs of many betas experienced before ..that leads to the "game is tested" statements from official company ..

Azrile

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by 7evenSteps


This game is guranteed failure

 

Care to elaborate abit?

Is it the possible griefing parts you dont like or what is it?

Alignment system?

 

The alignment system will fail.  My proof is every game that had the same feature.  The games themselves didn't fail, but the reputation aspect did.

The reason is this.  The reputation system is in place to keep PKing from being rampent.  You kill players, you get banished to the 'wilderness'.  Sounds good in theory... but the problem is the system is so easy to manipulate that the most hardcore PKers will never go red.  Most of the people who end up red will be tricked into it.  For instance....I make myself 'naked' so I don't lose anything when I die..  I step in your AOE and you go gray..  I let you kill me... congrats.. you are well on your way to being 'thrown into the wilderness'.. and if I do happen to kill you.. i don't get a murder count.  It's a no win situation for you.    The game has now become 'how do I manipulate the reputation system, or how do I avoid being tricked by the reputation system".

One of the most annoying things in UO was theives.  Don't get me wrong, I liked stealing or chasing down a theif... the problem was they were always naked.   If they got away,.. good for htem, they got my stuff... if I won and killed them... i got nothing.

xzyax

"At the moment, and possibly also in release, banks and vendors built by clans can be used by anyone (consider though that nobody’s built guard towers in player towns yet). Some testers shed tears of joy when they raided a player town, killed the people that they found there, then used their enemies’ bank and vendor to dispose of the loot. As they say in the Mastercard ads, priceless."

 

So, does that mean only Guard Towers and no NPC Guards? 

I find it very curious that she specifically mentions Guard Towers... yet nothing of NPC Guards.  The same thing was said in the Beta Qutoes that Tasos posted awhile back.  Guard Towers were mentioned... not anything about NPC Guards.

 

It doesn't look like people better count on the "Guards" saving you... thats for sure.  

The Guard Towers might chase of your killers from fully-looting your body... but that's about it.  

DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by 7evenSteps


This game is guranteed failure

 

Care to elaborate abit?

Is it the possible griefing parts you dont like or what is it?

Alignment system?

 

The alignment system will fail.  My proof is every game that had the same feature.  The games themselves didn't fail, but the reputation aspect did.

The reason is this.  The reputation system is in place to keep PKing from being rampent.  You kill players, you get banished to the 'wilderness'.  Sounds good in theory... but the problem is the system is so easy to manipulate that the most hardcore PKers will never go red.  Most of the people who end up red will be tricked into it.  For instance....I make myself 'naked' so I don't lose anything when I die..  I step in your AOE and you go gray..  I let you kill me... congrats.. you are well on your way to being 'thrown into the wilderness'.. and if I do happen to kill you.. i don't get a murder count.  It's a no win situation for you.    The game has now become 'how do I manipulate the reputation system, or how do I avoid being tricked by the reputation system".

One of the most annoying things in UO was theives.  Don't get me wrong, I liked stealing or chasing down a theif... the problem was they were always naked.   If they got away,.. good for htem, they got my stuff... if I won and killed them... i got nothing.

 

You jump in a  a mass battle  into my AoE and what ?  Its not a 1vs 1  ..if our team is organized a "sorry" will do it..if there is no room for sorry then you probably has to face my team ? clan ? alliance ? whole race ? if i deny to kill you  and  you try to kill me ...

you may find out that if you trick people you will grow a reputation that will hinder you progress within you choosen clan/alliance/race..

Hazmal

Originally posted by Azrile


The alignment system will fail.  My proof is every game that had the same feature.  The games themselves didn't fail, but the reputation aspect did.
The reason is this.  The reputation system is in place to keep PKing from being rampent.  You kill players, you get banished to the 'wilderness'.  Sounds good in theory... but the problem is the system is so easy to manipulate that the most hardcore PKers will never go red.  Most of the people who end up red will be tricked into it.  For instance....I make myself 'naked' so I don't lose anything when I die..  I step in your AOE and you go gray..  I let you kill me... congrats.. you are well on your way to being 'thrown into the wilderness'.. and if I do happen to kill you.. i don't get a murder count.  It's a no win situation for you.    The game has now become 'how do I manipulate the reputation system, or how do I avoid being tricked by the reputation system".
One of the most annoying things in UO was theives.  Don't get me wrong, I liked stealing or chasing down a theif... the problem was they were always naked.   If they got away,.. good for htem, they got my stuff... if I won and killed them... i got nothing.

 

Seems like a pretty good argument.  Wonder how the advocators will counter it...if an attempt is made.

The grey system does indeed scream to be exploited.  It will be interesting.

*Edit* - The above was a pretty weak attempt.  Of course 1 person won't try it against a group, use some common sense.  That one person could easily bait a whole team while a PK team is waiting, if sneaking is as important as it is made out to be.

Ohaan

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by DrWiggly


One more clarification on the Rep system.
I accidentally hit someone or they jump in front of my weapon. I go gray, then they attack me, do they go gray to everyone else but me? Probably not, but in lineage 2 they did.
Also from reading other sources, it is a deliberate act to kill someone. It seemed to be that you could beat them into submission and then "choose" to deliver the killing blow. So if its just one guy trying to grief you, you can deal with them and not have to take the negative rep hit if you don't want it. Granted in the case of a planned gank you're screwed.

No, they will not go grey to you or anyone else.  If you attack first (even if you did'nt mean to) you will go grey and they will stay blue.  It makes no sense to have any type of system if you go grey for defending yourself. PK's will just exploit that and get their friends to attack you as soon as you go grey.

Your second part is not true.  How are you 'not' going to deliver the killing blow.  Someone jumps in your AOE, you go grey and they attack you.  You actually are better than they are and get them down to 1% health.... then what?  That player is just going to keep attacking you until you kill them, at which point you will get a murder count ( -8).  I have heard nothing about a 'submission' system where you can disable a character without killing them.  Probably the best thing that you could do is stun them and run away fast.. and hope you don't bump into another player while you are grey.

The problem with the very simplistic system they are implementing is that the game code does not know if you purposefully are trying to kill a player, or if they stepped into your aoe by accident.  It treats both situations exactly the same.  If the devs put in a lot of ways to keep you from accidently going grey, then it's just going to give PKs more of a headstart when attacking players.    ie... how about if you don't go grey until you deal 10% damage? (this would prevent players from stepping in your aoe's).

The system is flawed because it is so simplisitic and tries to use computer code to figure out 'motive'.

You can choose not to deliver the killing blow by not 'finishing off' the other player. When you get your opponent to zero health they become incapacitated.  I don't know for how long but it may be that it will be sufficiently long for you to walk away and the criminal flag to expire.

 

I have no problem with the way AoE damage is flagged. It places the onus on the user to ensure that it is correctly applied.

From my perspective, the system is anything but simplistic. Imperfect yes. A simplistic system to me would be those that are used by most other PvE oriented MMOs: put up a bunch of freedom impairing barriers.

There is a lot heated debate about this aspect of the game and the vast majority of it focusses on the potential negative aspects of it. What about the positives and how do they balance with the negatives? This type of system makes the players manage their surroundings and holds them accountable for their actions.

People need to get their heads around the fact that they will not be able to safely solo DF while simultaneously watching Seinfeld re-runs...

Xxeon

Originally posted by xzyax


"At the moment, and possibly also in release, banks and vendors built by clans can be used by anyone (consider though that nobody’s built guard towers in player towns yet). Some testers shed tears of joy when they raided a player town, killed the people that they found there, then used their enemies’ bank and vendor to dispose of the loot. As they say in the Mastercard ads, priceless."
 
So, does that mean only Guard Towers and no NPC Guards? 
I find it very curious that she specifically mentions Guard Towers... yet nothing of NPC Guards.  The same thing was said in the Beta Qutoes that Tasos posted awhile back.  Guard Towers were mentioned... not anything about NPC Guards.
 
It doesn't look like people better count on the "Guards" saving you... thats for sure.  
The Guard Towers might chase of your killers from fully-looting your body... but that's about it.  

 

seems like they took npcs out of town ans just using guard towers which work better to be honest but i guess we will see

Hazmal

Originally posted by Ohaan


You can choose not to deliver the killing blow by not 'finishing off' the other player. When you get your opponent to zero health they become incapacitated.  I don't know for how long but it may be that it will be sufficiently long for you to walk away and the criminal flag to expire.

 
I have no problem with the way AoE damage is flagged. It places the onus on the user to ensure that it is correctly applied.
From my perspective, the system is anything but simplistic. Imperfect yes. A simplistic system to me would be those that are used by most other PvE oriented MMOs: put up a bunch of freedom impairing barriers.
There is a lot heated debate about this aspect of the game and the vast majority of it focusses on the potential negative aspects of it. What about the positives and how do they balance with the negatives? This type of system makes the players manage their surroundings and holds them accountable for their actions.
People need to get their heads around the fact that they will not be able to safely solo DF while simultaneously watching Seinfeld re-runs...

 

I might have to go with Seinfeld and just play Hungry Hungry Hippo.