My senses are detecting a carebear invasion due the inminent darkfall launch day ...
What i dont understand is that people complains about jumping to line of sight to convert people on grey but... who is shooting arrows on a crowded city? and if it is outside ...is that hard to check where you shoot before ?
There will be always tricks to do grief kills but these people will be just one more role between the ammount of types of players that it will be. Its a big sandbox.
About wow-df trading comparision.... i dont catch the idea. It's easy to implement a neutral place to trade. In UO worked.
Something jsut doesnt add up here....Why would I work hard to get great gear if 4 noobs can killme and take it?? WOuldnt everyone pretty much jsut want mediocre gear that is easily replaced instead of uber gear that is hard to get?.....I jsut keep remembering my UO days wehre I got killed every 2 minutes and there was no way I'd ever wear great gear because you got killed too often......Why do you think they came up with things like insuring items and Trammel and other safety valves? Why would anyone wear an epic item in Darkfall only to lose it to gank squads (and you know there will be plenty)?
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
I think this mentality/system can work, if items are essentially only for their look. I.e., a super-unique item would not be "epic" for the stats it provides, but for the amazing artistry, special effects granted (aura/fire/lightning etc) around a character, or something comparably cosmetic that demonstrated this was not a run-of-the-mill item. I would absolutely love that, yet I still find it hard to believe.
Where do the "numbers" come from? Only from skill progression/"spec"? That would be nice, if it were true, and would create a plateau of numerical contribution when people are at the same level and their skills maxed. THEN it would be a combination of spec/skill determining success/failure in PvP, as opposed to the person who spent more time grinding/raiding.
I want to make this clear, I want DF to succeed. I really do. No game has softly promised so much that is different from the mainstream MMO game in years. However, as close to launch as we are, the drips of information being released make me worry that DF has not made some final decisions, and has absolutely not tested their features against any true representative audience.
Of course, while I love to PvP, I don't play enough to get very involved in a game. So if the rules as implemented leave things wide open for other players to ruin my experience, I'll thank them for the first month and be on my merry way.
Azrile, what is with your hate-on? It seems like you are froathing at the mouth, stoking up every thread possible on this issue. Yes this feature brings potential consequences as well as benefits: glass half full/half empty, it is up to each player to determine which works for them. Do you want to play WoW for the rest of your life? The picture that you are painting is the worst case scenario and this is without any direct experience with the game itself. For this to happen the griefed players would have make zero effort to manage their surroundings: careless use of AoE, finishing off blue players, failing to leave hot spots, failing to have recon, etc. IMO Aventuring should be commended for risking making a social MMO instead you seem to be demanding a perfect social system. Do you think that is reasonable? How many governments have been able to create a perfect social system? Do you expect that an entertainment software company should deliver one?
I'm not really hating or frothing.. I'm enjoying this conversation. Game system, and especially pking 'rulesets' are fascinating to me... from UO to Ashen Empires etc. So people commenting on 'player justice' and stuff are fascinating to me. they are doing something that has already been done before but they think it will be different.
The entire Red-Gray-Blue system does not work. The majority of players will just circumvent it.. so why even bother with it. The people who do the most killing won't go red, the people who go gray will have done nothing wrong etc etc. Why not try something new? You said Aventure should be commended for taking a risk? they aren't really doing that, they are just putting in a system that has already been proven to be majorly flawed. If they actually did something new, then I'd love to talk about that. But if they are only going to do the UO thing, then why not talk about how it failed in UO.
Partly agree with you. A good and working alignment system is very important. Consequences and risk vs rewards is my moto. If you choose to play red then you have to realize you choosen a template thats not for everyone. In UO the best red players had reputations, they were respected by other players. If it's a walk in the park to play a murderer then the charm is lost.
How this alignment system will work out is to be seen ingame though but i fear it will not be enough to get a balanced ingame enviroment as it is now.
Statloss for murderers is a word many old UO-players hate and i can understand it.
This thread on Darkfall main website was made by my GM and he is a 10 year old UO-veteran that tried out all aspect of UO. Darkfall and UO have alot of similarities when you look at alignment.
Theres been a lot of doubt regarding the alignment system, a lot of people think it will be too easy to bypass. Some think the game will be total chaos because they believe it won't work as a deterent from killing your own race. I myself have had 8-9 years of experience in an MMORPG balanced by an alignment system, an alignment system that did change throughout the years but which core remained the same. The game I speak of is Ultima Online and I feel that my experience gives me a good overview of what is needed in order to properly balance a game with such a system.
First of all no system is ever perfect, there will be flaws, there will always be ways to manipulate certain aspects of a system for your own winning. All you can do when creating a system, whatever system it may be, is to strive for perfection. The core of an alignment system such as Darkfalls has to be the concept of risk vs reward, it has to be beneficial enough for a person to want to become a murderer while it also has to be punishing enough to deter others. If either one outweighs the other the system will fail, if it is too punishing then no one will want to kill their own race and if it isn't punishing enough things will become chaotic. The best way to balance this is to restrict certain features of the game from people choosing to kill their own kind. Such as making a murderer permanently criminal, restricting their access to most NPC towns, limiting the amount of ressurection points.
However I do not feel that this will be enough in the long run for big time killers, as I mentioned before no system is perfect and this one is no exception. There will be ways to bypass and/or easen some of the penelties I did and didn't mention above. The penelties shouldn't take effect before you've killed a certain amount of people of your own race, and while it might be enough for smalltime killers I feel like a more severe penelty should be applied for mass murderers. Someone who has killed 10-20 of his own race within a short period should also be subject to a percentage loss in his skills when he or she dies. The percentage should increase as the killcount rises.
You might ask why I think it's neccesary with a skill loss system for big time murderers? You might call me a carebear and say I'm trying to limit player freedom. I can assure you though that that is not the case. All I'm seeking to do is bring balance to a system that can easily become chaotic if made the wrong way. Now a skill loss sytem can be made in a few different ways and should only effect big time murderers. The skill loss can be nullified when you die and only come back when you've killed enough people again, it could stay until you've lowered your killcount or it could be permanent to mention a few examples. I feel like it is the best way to limit same race killing while still not making the penalties too harsh to remove murderers altogether.
Naturally the game has to be tested to determine how harsh a skill loss system should be, it could be just a few percentages up to 10-20% depending on the game and amount of kills you have. Bottomline is that an alignment system won't work if the risk isn't in balance with the reward."
The only "really" working alignment system in UO were when reds had to face statloss on their characters. It made people cautios going red and it balanced out the ingame in a good way as i see it.
Edit: Having a good and working alignment system isnt carebearish. Having a flawed one is though.
One more clarification on the Rep system. I accidentally hit someone or they jump in front of my weapon. I go gray, then they attack me, do they go gray to everyone else but me? Probably not, but in lineage 2 they did. Also from reading other sources, it is a deliberate act to kill someone. It seemed to be that you could beat them into submission and then "choose" to deliver the killing blow. So if its just one guy trying to grief you, you can deal with them and not have to take the negative rep hit if you don't want it. Granted in the case of a planned gank you're screwed.
No, they will not go grey to you or anyone else. If you attack first (even if you did'nt mean to) you will go grey and they will stay blue. It makes no sense to have any type of system if you go grey for defending yourself. PK's will just exploit that and get their friends to attack you as soon as you go grey.
Your second part is not true. How are you 'not' going to deliver the killing blow. Someone jumps in your AOE, you go grey and they attack you. You actually are better than they are and get them down to 1% health.... then what? That player is just going to keep attacking you until you kill them, at which point you will get a murder count ( -8). I have heard nothing about a 'submission' system where you can disable a character without killing them. Probably the best thing that you could do is stun them and run away fast.. and hope you don't bump into another player while you are grey.
The problem with the very simplistic system they are implementing is that the game code does not know if you purposefully are trying to kill a player, or if they stepped into your aoe by accident. It treats both situations exactly the same. If the devs put in a lot of ways to keep you from accidently going grey, then it's just going to give PKs more of a headstart when attacking players. ie... how about if you don't go grey until you deal 10% damage? (this would prevent players from stepping in your aoe's).
The system is flawed because it is so simplisitic and tries to use computer code to figure out 'motive'.
How to solve this situation
1) Train a CC skill
2) Beat a person down until they are 1% hp and kite to mobs
3) Use CC spell
4) Watch mob kill the player
5) ROFLMAO
If the concqence system is similar to AoC (which isn't bad just missing full loot option) then the system will do whats its intended to do.
Something jsut doesnt add up here....Why would I work hard to get great gear if 4 noobs can killme and take it?? WOuldnt everyone pretty much jsut want mediocre gear that is easily replaced instead of uber gear that is hard to get?.....I jsut keep remembering my UO days wehre I got killed every 2 minutes and there was no way I'd ever wear great gear because you got killed too often......Why do you think they came up with things like insuring items and Trammel and other safety valves? Why would anyone wear an epic item in Darkfall only to lose it to gank squads (and you know there will be plenty)?
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
Heh... apparently you missed the recent article from Tasos and Claus as well.
I think you need to re-read the recent interview here:
1. Comparing Darkfall's alignment system to any other MMO game is completely pointless because no other game has a combat system that allows any attack to hit anyone you point at. Being a melee-centric character will not help because someone can just run in front of you while you are swinging your sword and it will have the same effect as them stepping in front of your arrow.
2. As long as your attack that takes someone down to 0 HP isn't super powerful they will not die they will just be incapacitated. While they are on the ground you have the option to leave them alone which will not effect your reputation; or you can kill them.
So if someone forces you to go grey you can still give them a beat down, just make sure you don't destroy them when they are low on health.
3. There WILL be rare/epic items in Darkfall. I don't know why people keep saying there won't be. There were in UO, why would it be any different for the game's spiritual successor? The thing you should say is even though there will be rare items, most people won't use them for fear of loss and they will just sit in the bank for months/years collecting dust. It was a flaw in the system in UO and it will be a flaw in Darkfall.
4. Racial factions in a FFA PvP skill based game has not been done before so no one really knows how it's going to play out in the game. My belief is that there were so many PKs in UO because they didn't have anyone else to kill. But in Darkfall there will be many other races that everyone can kill. I truly believe this will cut down on PKing a lot, simply because there will be no need to do it. I think that there will still be PKing, but not to the extent of UO.
It's kind of like if you want pepperoni pizza, but all you have is cheese. You will eat the cheese pizza simply because it's there, but if someone brings in a pepperoni pizza, you will eat that instead. Some people will pick off the pepperoni and continue to eat cheese pizza, but most people would probably just eat the pepperoni.
I hope that makes sense.
5. Happy New Year!
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Just a few things. 1. Comparing Darkfall's alignment system to any other MMO game is completely pointless because no other game has a combat system that allows any attack to hit anyone you point at. Being a melee-centric character will not help because someone can just run in front of you while you are swinging your sword and it will have the same effect as them stepping in front of your arrow. 2. As long as your attack that takes someone down to 0 HP isn't super powerful they will not die they will just be incapacitated. While they are on the ground you have the option to leave them alone which will not effect your reputation; or you can kill them. So if someone forces you to go grey you can still give them a beat down, just make sure you don't destroy them when they are low on health. 3. There WILL be rare/epic items in Darkfall. I don't know why people keep saying there won't be. There were in UO, why would it be any different for the game's spiritual successor? The thing you should say is even though there will be rare items, most people won't use them for fear of loss and they will just sit in the bank for months/years collecting dust. It was a flaw in the system in UO and it will be a flaw in Darkfall. 4. I had something else .. but I don't remember what it was now. (Will update if I remember) 5. Happy New Year!
Ahh well
1) AoC's combat is active and "AoE" based meaning all attacks have a cone range like they would in RL. You don't even have to target players to hit them, and in fact targeting can be a hinderence. AoC has a murder system in place to help prevent grifing lowbies which works on the respect but fails in others, just like this game will. Difference is that AoC doesn't have a way to incompaciate someone besides CC.
3) I think they said something about a weapon rotting, but I don't know could of been a play talking about epic gear being useless. I do know tho that I'll be using the rare weapons when not murdering people and sieging a guild because during a siege people wont be looting bodies unless they really want to die.
There's no point in elaborating. The entire project is an overhyped failure. From it's graphics, to its animations , to its generic shitty looking gameplay, to it's 150 beta testers testing it out 22 days before launch, to them having 80% of the games core features locked / blocked from said testers 22 days before launch. Everything about this screams failure waiting to happen.
So you say it exists and is in beta tested by outside people..thats a progress
All other characterizations about the game you given are entirely subjective..gameplay looks fantastic for example it gaves me goosebumps to watch the fighting scenes in the videos.
The tester say the game is stable and they have experienced the fewest crashes/bugs of many betas experienced before ..that leads to the "game is tested" statements from official company ..
The testers also say its a barren waste land with shitty graphics and shitty sound and "meh" combat system which consists of spamming your mouse button..
This is not "subjective". The only people to who this would be subjective are the last fanboys who are still clinging on to hope that this played out joke of a project will actually deliver everything its been talking about for the last 7 years.
BUT IT WON'T.
That's beyond obvious at this pont.
Gameplay looks fantastic to you?
What part of running around in a mindless grab ass fest with terrible animations and circa 2002 graphics , is "fantastic" to you??
You can go play Savage 2 right now and get awesome graphics , great sound, great animations, and all the mindless grab ass PvP you want.. FOR FREE.
This game is a miserable failure in every way possible. From it's horrid non existent PR, to it's joke of a producer Tasos and all his bullshitting, to it's non existent public Beta 21 days before launch, to it's only EURO launch because no real publisher in the states will touch it with a ten foot pole.
Welcome to reality. Pull up a seat and stay a while.
Originally posted by xpiher Ahh well 1) AoC's combat is active and "AoE" based meaning all attacks have a cone range like they would in RL. You don't even have to target players to hit them, and in fact targeting can be a hinderence. AoC has a murder system in place to help prevent grifing lowbies which works on the respect but fails in others, just like this game will. Difference is that AoC doesn't have a way to incompaciate someone besides CC. I haven't played AoC since beta so I was unaware they added an alignment system like Darkfall to the game. A note about AoC's combat though, yes it's not specifically target based but it IS a lot slower paced then Darkfall is supposed to be. Also the mob you are fighting in AoC just stands there so if someone tried to get you to attack them by getting in your cone range it would be easy enough to avoid them. Plus the camera angle is a lot more adjustable in AoC than Darkfall. Supposedly Darkfall's mob AI is so advanced that they will strafe and run around while you are fighting so it would be a lot easier for an accidental attack. 3) I think they said something about a weapon rotting, but I don't know could of been a play talking about epic gear being useless. I do know tho that I'll be using the rare weapons when not murdering people and sieging a guild because during a siege people wont be looting bodies unless they really want to die. I know weapons decay when they are used until they are destroyed. I haven't heard anything about them rotting inside of your bank. You're right about people not looting bodies during a siege, but one of my favorite things to do in UO was go behind a battle taking place and clear the bodies. Battlefields were great places to find vanquishing weapons, hehe.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
If a white player attacks a grey player, will he go grey to? No way or else you end up with this scenario I get naked. I walk into town and attack you and go gray. You defend yourself and go gray. Everyone in town ganks both of us.. but since i'm naked, I lose nothing and you lose everything. It's even more convenient if it happens to be my friends standing around when I do this.
OR you attack and go grey, then he stands there while you get ganked. Could happen.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
If you're grouped or in a raidparty you wont take a alignment penalty for hitting eachothers.
So if you want to jump in to a AoE spell during a fight you have to concider that you have a group/raid party backing this guy up. So good luck.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
"At the moment, and possibly also in release, banks and vendors built by clans can be used by anyone (consider though that nobody’s built guard towers in player towns yet). Some testers shed tears of joy when they raided a player town, killed the people that they found there, then used their enemies’ bank and vendor to dispose of the loot. As they say in the Mastercard ads, priceless."
So, does that mean only Guard Towers and no NPC Guards? I find it very curious that she specifically mentions Guard Towers... yet nothing of NPC Guards. The same thing was said in the Beta Qutoes that Tasos posted awhile back. Guard Towers were mentioned... not anything about NPC Guards.
It doesn't look like people better count on the "Guards" saving you... thats for sure. The Guard Towers might chase of your killers from fully-looting your body... but that's about it.
NPC guards is out, we have known this since Yellowbeards visit. Guard Towers is what guards a clan-city
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
You do know that there are no epic swords in Darkfall right? Darkfall is not gear based, and because of its Full loot PVP Aventuirne has supposibly taken steps so losing ones gear won't mean much. Supposibly players skills (twitch based) will make the biggest difference, not their gear or thier in game skills.
That's pretty funny. If that were true, why bother allowing people to loot players, if it had no true gain to them? Embarassment? Inconvenience?
Has ANY MMORPG come out that WASN'T gear-based? Some are to a lesser extent than others, but I can't think of a single one in which the gear being used had NO impact on effectiveness.
You seriously need to think about reading up on the games you descuss, since you have obviously missed some extremely basic info about DFO gameplay.
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
You do know that there are no epic swords in Darkfall right? Darkfall is not gear based, and because of its Full loot PVP Aventuirne has supposibly taken steps so losing ones gear won't mean much. Supposibly players skills (twitch based) will make the biggest difference, not their gear or thier in game skills.
That's pretty funny. If that were true, why bother allowing people to loot players, if it had no true gain to them? Embarassment? Inconvenience?
Has ANY MMORPG come out that WASN'T gear-based? Some are to a lesser extent than others, but I can't think of a single one in which the gear being used had NO impact on effectiveness.
You seriously need to think about reading up on the games you descuss, since you have obviously missed some extremely basic info about DFO gameplay.
If it isnt gear based then why have rare items? Read xyax's post above nileq, even if it pains you to be wrong yet again.
Something jsut doesnt add up here....Why would I work hard to get great gear if 4 noobs can killme and take it?? WOuldnt everyone pretty much jsut want mediocre gear that is easily replaced instead of uber gear that is hard to get?.....I jsut keep remembering my UO days wehre I got killed every 2 minutes and there was no way I'd ever wear great gear because you got killed too often......Why do you think they came up with things like insuring items and Trammel and other safety valves? Why would anyone wear an epic item in Darkfall only to lose it to gank squads (and you know there will be plenty)?
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
Heh... apparently you missed the recent article from Tasos and Claus as well.
I think you need to re-read the recent interview here:
Some quotes from Tasos and Claus from that link above:
You can also find rare treasure chests in some of Darkfall's dungeons
There are several powerful and rare items
the Sithras which are a cross between a whip and a light saber
There are also the racial special weapons which are powerful and unique to each race
So, according to Tasos and Claus there are very powerful and rare items. And yes, they can be looted just like everything else.
I did read that, it was really good.
But you can in no way say DF is itembased because there will be some items many will have. And as you say, its still a full loot FFAPvP game. Either those items will be lock in some bank or they will be owned by players that have earned the right to wear them.
Seriously This game is going to be so unfriendly to players, filled with so many Exploits Either it will have to go threw a trammel rework or it will fail with less then 10k subs.
You can't have a Blue/Grey/red system like that in a FPS combat game its way too easy to hit members of your own team.
I don't care how skilled you think you are, I promise you during the first 30 minutes of your DF gaming life you will toss a Fireball at a friendly or shoot a arrow into thier neck by mistake.
This game will only be fun to griefers with this system in place.
Alot of you guys that are praising DF, Calling it the Savior of MMO and "the game thats finally catered to you" Dont realize what your asking for.
All of you seem to think your going to be wolves, You are all getting excited over this alignment system figuring out ways you will be able to get players killed. You guys are so wrong I wonder if even 5% of you actually played UO.
I promise you almost none of you will be wolves, almost none of you will last in DF more then a month.
What will you do when your the sheep? team up? yeah cause wolves have problems hunting herds, right?
after the 22nd 95% of you guys will be crying that DF has Game balance issues and exploits and will say DF is a failer and your waiting for the next big thing (insert random FFApvp that sounds good in your head).
I'm going to laugh My ass off when all you guys come QQ on the boards after release.
There's no point in elaborating. The entire project is an overhyped failure. From it's graphics, to its animations , to its generic shitty looking gameplay, to it's 150 beta testers testing it out 22 days before launch, to them having 80% of the games core features locked / blocked from said testers 22 days before launch. Everything about this screams failure waiting to happen.
So you say it exists and is in beta tested by outside people..thats a progress
All other characterizations about the game you given are entirely subjective..gameplay looks fantastic for example it gaves me goosebumps to watch the fighting scenes in the videos.
The tester say the game is stable and they have experienced the fewest crashes/bugs of many betas experienced before ..that leads to the "game is tested" statements from official company ..
The testers also say its a barren waste land with shitty graphics and shitty sound and "meh" combat system which consists of spamming your mouse button..
This is not "subjective". The only people to who this would be subjective are the last fanboys who are still clinging on to hope that this played out joke of a project will actually deliver everything its been talking about for the last 7 years.
BUT IT WON'T.
That's beyond obvious at this pont.
Gameplay looks fantastic to you?
What part of running around in a mindless grab ass fest with terrible animations and circa 2002 graphics , is "fantastic" to you??
You can go play Savage 2 right now and get awesome graphics , great sound, great animations, and all the mindless grab ass PvP you want.. FOR FREE.
This game is a miserable failure in every way possible. From it's horrid non existent PR, to it's joke of a producer Tasos and all his bullshitting, to it's non existent public Beta 21 days before launch, to it's only EURO launch because no real publisher in the states will touch it with a ten foot pole.
Welcome to reality. Pull up a seat and stay a while.
People that only likes to see the bad points, and paint em all over the game are people generally being called haters in here.
Does gameplay look fantastic to me? How the fuck should i know - from the long vid released by the official copany it looks... well it has potential to work. But i dont really trust a vid from the producers that much couse they will only show the good parts naturally. And thats all i have to go on. And so do you - but you seem to see the bad things and scream Doomsday...
Well its up to you, but dont be surprised when scepticts and fanbois alike will flame you for your hater attitude
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
"At the moment, and possibly also in release, banks and vendors built by clans can be used by anyone (consider though that nobody’s built guard towers in player towns yet). Some testers shed tears of joy when they raided a player town, killed the people that they found there, then used their enemies’ bank and vendor to dispose of the loot. As they say in the Mastercard ads, priceless."
So, does that mean only Guard Towers and no NPC Guards? I find it very curious that she specifically mentions Guard Towers... yet nothing of NPC Guards. The same thing was said in the Beta Qutoes that Tasos posted awhile back. Guard Towers were mentioned... not anything about NPC Guards.
It doesn't look like people better count on the "Guards" saving you... thats for sure. The Guard Towers might chase of your killers from fully-looting your body... but that's about it.
NPC guards is out, we have known this since Yellowbeards visit. Guard Towers is what guards a clan-city
Well apparently the "we" that have known it is a fairly small group. Perhaps you should let a few long-time posters on the official boards know as well.
The thread above from about a month ago (Quite a bit AFTER Yellowbeard's visit) didn't sound like very many people were sure whether they were out or not.
The same goes for quite a few posters on the official boards. I've also never seen an official quote from a Dev. emphatically stating one way or the other, perhaps you could point me to the link where this was said?
Glad to hear that you've now cleared it up with 100% accurracy now though.
The difference between UO and DF will be that there are 3 factions and not just 1. "Hardcore PKs" are NOT going to be PK ing their own faction. It's highly ineffecient. Why go around tricking people into going grey and getting one kill without penalty when you could go find some race enemies and kill 4 of them in probably the same time that it took to follow that one race ally around and eventually get him to go grey. Non RPKs will also generally have a high alignment and will not go red in 2 kills. Maybe at the start, but we all know the game's going to be chaotic as hell at the start.
As for "exploiting the alignment mechanic" i think this post pretty much owned the thread ..
About the WoW vs DF item controversy i know the difference but can't see the problem ...
WoW Item counts because they "epic" , in DF item counts because of the effort put into to craft / obtain them ..
In WoW there is no item based motivation to enter a fight .in DF there is.
In WoW there is no item based motivation to avoid a fight , in DF there is.
Absolutely clear for me DF gives PvP fighting more sense then WoW ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Something jsut doesnt add up here....Why would I work hard to get great gear if 4 noobs can killme and take it?? WOuldnt everyone pretty much jsut want mediocre gear that is easily replaced instead of uber gear that is hard to get?.....I jsut keep remembering my UO days wehre I got killed every 2 minutes and there was no way I'd ever wear great gear because you got killed too often......Why do you think they came up with things like insuring items and Trammel and other safety valves? Why would anyone wear an epic item in Darkfall only to lose it to gank squads (and you know there will be plenty)?
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
Heh... apparently you missed the recent article from Tasos and Claus as well.
I think you need to re-read the recent interview here:
Some quotes from Tasos and Claus from that link above:
You can also find rare treasure chests in some of Darkfall's dungeons
There are several powerful and rare items
the Sithras which are a cross between a whip and a light saber
There are also the racial special weapons which are powerful and unique to each race
So, according to Tasos and Claus there are very powerful and rare items. And yes, they can be looted just like everything else.
I did read that, it was really good.
But you can in no way say DF is itembased because there will be some items many will have. And as you say, its still a full loot FFAPvP game. Either those items will be lock in some bank or they will be owned by players that have earned the right to wear them.
I don't disagree with that.
I was merely pointing out that your statement of :
"there is no epic items in DF!"
seems to be at odds with what the Devs themselves have told us about the game.
Unless... Rare, Unique, Powerful.. Items does not = Epic.
I think for the majority of players though... that description does in fact = Epic.
Or... perhaps you were implying that you don't believe what the Devs are telling us. That is an entirely valid opinion, so I guess that is possible. We will just have to play it ourselves in order to verify the veracity of their statements.
"If you hit someone of your faction you go grey for a few minutes, and people can kill you without getting an alignment hit. You have to be careful where you’re aiming with your arrows and spells when you're fighting near strangers of your faction, since people can jump in front to make you go grey and kill you with impunity."
Absolutely no surprise whatsoever we find out Darkfall has an extremely simplistic, arbitrary and easily exploited alignment systems.
The more we find out the worse it gets.
I wonder how many other features are also just as rudimentary and easily exploited.
Anyone with any experience of similar systems in many other MMO games from the past will understand this will be manipulated to its full advantage to the detriment of the game.
Crappy system, needs a lot more work, does not bode well that such a fundamental aspect governing the game is so poorly executed, if they can't even get the basic foundations of the game right imagine how awful the rest will be.
"If you hit someone of your faction you go grey for a few minutes, and people can kill you without getting an alignment hit. You have to be careful where you’re aiming with your arrows and spells when you're fighting near strangers of your faction, since people can jump in front to make you go grey and kill you with impunity." Absolutely no surprise whatsoever we find out Darkfall has an extremely simplistic, arbitrary and easily exploited alignment systems. The more we find out the worse it gets. I wonder how many other features are also just as rudimentary and easily exploited. Anyone with any experience of similar systems in many other MMO games from the past will understand this will be manipulated to its full advantage to the detriment of the game. Crappy system, needs a lot more work, does not bode well that such a fundamental aspect governing the game is so poorly executed, if they can't even get the basic foundations of the game right imagine how awful the rest will be.
The system is well designed , every system has its flaws and player will try to find the ropes around, this one here DF designed make things simple to follow and offers most fun out of it ..
Its the best you can get between the extremes kill without fear penalties and having fun while enjoy the freedom the game offers you..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Seriously This game is going to be so unfriendly to players, filled with so many Exploits Either it will have to go threw a trammel rework or it will fail with less then 10k subs. You can't have a Blue/Grey/red system like that in a FPS combat game its way too easy to hit members of your own team. I don't care how skilled you think you are, I promise you during the first 30 minutes of your DF gaming life you will toss a Fireball at a friendly or shoot a arrow into thier neck by mistake. This game will only be fun to griefers with this system in place. Alot of you guys that are praising DF, Calling it the Savior of MMO and "the game thats finally catered to you" Dont realize what your asking for. All of you seem to think your going to be wolves, You are all getting excited over this alignment system figuring out ways you will be able to get players killed. You guys are so wrong I wonder if even 5% of you actually played UO. I promise you almost none of you will be wolves, almost none of you will last in DF more then a month. What will you do when your the sheep? team up? yeah cause wolves have problems hunting herds, right? after the 22nd 95% of you guys will be crying that DF has Game balance issues and exploits and will say DF is a failer and your waiting for the next big thing (insert random FFApvp that sounds good in your head). I'm going to laugh My ass off when all you guys come QQ on the boards after release.
Seriously This game is going to be so unfriendly to players, filled with so many Exploits Either it will have to go threw a trammel rework or it will fail with less then 10k subs. You can't have a Blue/Grey/red system like that in a FPS combat game its way too easy to hit members of your own team. I don't care how skilled you think you are, I promise you during the first 30 minutes of your DF gaming life you will toss a Fireball at a friendly or shoot a arrow into thier neck by mistake. This game will only be fun to griefers with this system in place. Alot of you guys that are praising DF, Calling it the Savior of MMO and "the game thats finally catered to you" Dont realize what your asking for. All of you seem to think your going to be wolves, You are all getting excited over this alignment system figuring out ways you will be able to get players killed. You guys are so wrong I wonder if even 5% of you actually played UO. I promise you almost none of you will be wolves, almost none of you will last in DF more then a month. What will you do when your the sheep? team up? yeah cause wolves have problems hunting herds, right? after the 22nd 95% of you guys will be crying that DF has Game balance issues and exploits and will say DF is a failer and your waiting for the next big thing (insert random FFApvp that sounds good in your head). I'm going to laugh My ass off when all you guys come QQ on the boards after release.
I think Zero1 is failing to see that people will team-up to be a pack of wolves... to hunt a pack of sheeps... my only thing is if it plays fast and arcade like hellgate... or slow and boring like Warhammer... if it's slow I prolly won't play it
Seriously This game is going to be so unfriendly to players, filled with so many Exploits Either it will have to go threw a trammel rework or it will fail with less then 10k subs. You can't have a Blue/Grey/red system like that in a FPS combat game its way too easy to hit members of your own team. I don't care how skilled you think you are, I promise you during the first 30 minutes of your DF gaming life you will toss a Fireball at a friendly or shoot a arrow into thier neck by mistake. This game will only be fun to griefers with this system in place. Alot of you guys that are praising DF, Calling it the Savior of MMO and "the game thats finally catered to you" Dont realize what your asking for. All of you seem to think your going to be wolves, You are all getting excited over this alignment system figuring out ways you will be able to get players killed. You guys are so wrong I wonder if even 5% of you actually played UO. I promise you almost none of you will be wolves, almost none of you will last in DF more then a month. What will you do when your the sheep? team up? yeah cause wolves have problems hunting herds, right? after the 22nd 95% of you guys will be crying that DF has Game balance issues and exploits and will say DF is a failer and your waiting for the next big thing (insert random FFApvp that sounds good in your head). I'm going to laugh My ass off when all you guys come QQ on the boards after release.
I think Zero1 is failing to see that people will team-up to be a pack of wolves... to hunt a pack of sheeps... my only thing is if it plays fast and arcade like hellgate... or slow and boring like Warhammer... if it's slow I prolly won't play it
There is this quote from the "beta tester" that most people think is legit..
"Melee combat feels like you are just trading blows. Back and forth. What can you say? They need to work on it and tweak it some."
Not sure if that answers if it is fast or slow though.
Comments
My senses are detecting a carebear invasion due the inminent darkfall launch day ...
What i dont understand is that people complains about jumping to line of sight to convert people on grey but... who is shooting arrows on a crowded city? and if it is outside ...is that hard to check where you shoot before ?
There will be always tricks to do grief kills but these people will be just one more role between the ammount of types of players that it will be. Its a big sandbox.
About wow-df trading comparision.... i dont catch the idea. It's easy to implement a neutral place to trade. In UO worked.
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
I think this mentality/system can work, if items are essentially only for their look. I.e., a super-unique item would not be "epic" for the stats it provides, but for the amazing artistry, special effects granted (aura/fire/lightning etc) around a character, or something comparably cosmetic that demonstrated this was not a run-of-the-mill item. I would absolutely love that, yet I still find it hard to believe.
Where do the "numbers" come from? Only from skill progression/"spec"? That would be nice, if it were true, and would create a plateau of numerical contribution when people are at the same level and their skills maxed. THEN it would be a combination of spec/skill determining success/failure in PvP, as opposed to the person who spent more time grinding/raiding.
I want to make this clear, I want DF to succeed. I really do. No game has softly promised so much that is different from the mainstream MMO game in years. However, as close to launch as we are, the drips of information being released make me worry that DF has not made some final decisions, and has absolutely not tested their features against any true representative audience.
Of course, while I love to PvP, I don't play enough to get very involved in a game. So if the rules as implemented leave things wide open for other players to ruin my experience, I'll thank them for the first month and be on my merry way.
I'm not really hating or frothing.. I'm enjoying this conversation. Game system, and especially pking 'rulesets' are fascinating to me... from UO to Ashen Empires etc. So people commenting on 'player justice' and stuff are fascinating to me. they are doing something that has already been done before but they think it will be different.
The entire Red-Gray-Blue system does not work. The majority of players will just circumvent it.. so why even bother with it. The people who do the most killing won't go red, the people who go gray will have done nothing wrong etc etc. Why not try something new? You said Aventure should be commended for taking a risk? they aren't really doing that, they are just putting in a system that has already been proven to be majorly flawed. If they actually did something new, then I'd love to talk about that. But if they are only going to do the UO thing, then why not talk about how it failed in UO.
Partly agree with you. A good and working alignment system is very important. Consequences and risk vs rewards is my moto. If you choose to play red then you have to realize you choosen a template thats not for everyone. In UO the best red players had reputations, they were respected by other players. If it's a walk in the park to play a murderer then the charm is lost.
How this alignment system will work out is to be seen ingame though but i fear it will not be enough to get a balanced ingame enviroment as it is now.
Statloss for murderers is a word many old UO-players hate and i can understand it.
This thread on Darkfall main website was made by my GM and he is a 10 year old UO-veteran that tried out all aspect of UO. Darkfall and UO have alot of similarities when you look at alignment.
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=90716
Here is his thoughts on how a "good" alignment system should work and i agree with him -
" Alignment system, how it needs to be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theres been a lot of doubt regarding the alignment system, a lot of people think it will be too easy to bypass. Some think the game will be total chaos because they believe it won't work as a deterent from killing your own race. I myself have had 8-9 years of experience in an MMORPG balanced by an alignment system, an alignment system that did change throughout the years but which core remained the same. The game I speak of is Ultima Online and I feel that my experience gives me a good overview of what is needed in order to properly balance a game with such a system.
First of all no system is ever perfect, there will be flaws, there will always be ways to manipulate certain aspects of a system for your own winning. All you can do when creating a system, whatever system it may be, is to strive for perfection. The core of an alignment system such as Darkfalls has to be the concept of risk vs reward, it has to be beneficial enough for a person to want to become a murderer while it also has to be punishing enough to deter others. If either one outweighs the other the system will fail, if it is too punishing then no one will want to kill their own race and if it isn't punishing enough things will become chaotic. The best way to balance this is to restrict certain features of the game from people choosing to kill their own kind. Such as making a murderer permanently criminal, restricting their access to most NPC towns, limiting the amount of ressurection points.
However I do not feel that this will be enough in the long run for big time killers, as I mentioned before no system is perfect and this one is no exception. There will be ways to bypass and/or easen some of the penelties I did and didn't mention above. The penelties shouldn't take effect before you've killed a certain amount of people of your own race, and while it might be enough for smalltime killers I feel like a more severe penelty should be applied for mass murderers. Someone who has killed 10-20 of his own race within a short period should also be subject to a percentage loss in his skills when he or she dies. The percentage should increase as the killcount rises.
You might ask why I think it's neccesary with a skill loss system for big time murderers? You might call me a carebear and say I'm trying to limit player freedom. I can assure you though that that is not the case. All I'm seeking to do is bring balance to a system that can easily become chaotic if made the wrong way. Now a skill loss sytem can be made in a few different ways and should only effect big time murderers. The skill loss can be nullified when you die and only come back when you've killed enough people again, it could stay until you've lowered your killcount or it could be permanent to mention a few examples. I feel like it is the best way to limit same race killing while still not making the penalties too harsh to remove murderers altogether.
Naturally the game has to be tested to determine how harsh a skill loss system should be, it could be just a few percentages up to 10-20% depending on the game and amount of kills you have. Bottomline is that an alignment system won't work if the risk isn't in balance with the reward."
The only "really" working alignment system in UO were when reds had to face statloss on their characters. It made people cautios going red and it balanced out the ingame in a good way as i see it.
Edit: Having a good and working alignment system isnt carebearish. Having a flawed one is though.
No, they will not go grey to you or anyone else. If you attack first (even if you did'nt mean to) you will go grey and they will stay blue. It makes no sense to have any type of system if you go grey for defending yourself. PK's will just exploit that and get their friends to attack you as soon as you go grey.
Your second part is not true. How are you 'not' going to deliver the killing blow. Someone jumps in your AOE, you go grey and they attack you. You actually are better than they are and get them down to 1% health.... then what? That player is just going to keep attacking you until you kill them, at which point you will get a murder count ( -8). I have heard nothing about a 'submission' system where you can disable a character without killing them. Probably the best thing that you could do is stun them and run away fast.. and hope you don't bump into another player while you are grey.
The problem with the very simplistic system they are implementing is that the game code does not know if you purposefully are trying to kill a player, or if they stepped into your aoe by accident. It treats both situations exactly the same. If the devs put in a lot of ways to keep you from accidently going grey, then it's just going to give PKs more of a headstart when attacking players. ie... how about if you don't go grey until you deal 10% damage? (this would prevent players from stepping in your aoe's).
The system is flawed because it is so simplisitic and tries to use computer code to figure out 'motive'.
How to solve this situation
1) Train a CC skill
2) Beat a person down until they are 1% hp and kite to mobs
3) Use CC spell
4) Watch mob kill the player
5) ROFLMAO
If the concqence system is similar to AoC (which isn't bad just missing full loot option) then the system will do whats its intended to do.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
Heh... apparently you missed the recent article from Tasos and Claus as well.
I think you need to re-read the recent interview here:
www.curse.com/articles/darkfall-en-news/372269.aspx
Some quotes from Tasos and Claus from that link above:
So, according to Tasos and Claus there are very powerful and rare items. And yes, they can be looted just like everything else.
Just a few things.
1. Comparing Darkfall's alignment system to any other MMO game is completely pointless because no other game has a combat system that allows any attack to hit anyone you point at. Being a melee-centric character will not help because someone can just run in front of you while you are swinging your sword and it will have the same effect as them stepping in front of your arrow.
2. As long as your attack that takes someone down to 0 HP isn't super powerful they will not die they will just be incapacitated. While they are on the ground you have the option to leave them alone which will not effect your reputation; or you can kill them.
So if someone forces you to go grey you can still give them a beat down, just make sure you don't destroy them when they are low on health.
3. There WILL be rare/epic items in Darkfall. I don't know why people keep saying there won't be. There were in UO, why would it be any different for the game's spiritual successor? The thing you should say is even though there will be rare items, most people won't use them for fear of loss and they will just sit in the bank for months/years collecting dust. It was a flaw in the system in UO and it will be a flaw in Darkfall.
4. Racial factions in a FFA PvP skill based game has not been done before so no one really knows how it's going to play out in the game. My belief is that there were so many PKs in UO because they didn't have anyone else to kill. But in Darkfall there will be many other races that everyone can kill. I truly believe this will cut down on PKing a lot, simply because there will be no need to do it. I think that there will still be PKing, but not to the extent of UO.
It's kind of like if you want pepperoni pizza, but all you have is cheese. You will eat the cheese pizza simply because it's there, but if someone brings in a pepperoni pizza, you will eat that instead. Some people will pick off the pepperoni and continue to eat cheese pizza, but most people would probably just eat the pepperoni.
I hope that makes sense.
5. Happy New Year!
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Ahh well
1) AoC's combat is active and "AoE" based meaning all attacks have a cone range like they would in RL. You don't even have to target players to hit them, and in fact targeting can be a hinderence. AoC has a murder system in place to help prevent grifing lowbies which works on the respect but fails in others, just like this game will. Difference is that AoC doesn't have a way to incompaciate someone besides CC.
3) I think they said something about a weapon rotting, but I don't know could of been a play talking about epic gear being useless. I do know tho that I'll be using the rare weapons when not murdering people and sieging a guild because during a siege people wont be looting bodies unless they really want to die.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
So you say it exists and is in beta tested by outside people..thats a progress
All other characterizations about the game you given are entirely subjective..gameplay looks fantastic for example it gaves me goosebumps to watch the fighting scenes in the videos.
The tester say the game is stable and they have experienced the fewest crashes/bugs of many betas experienced before ..that leads to the "game is tested" statements from official company ..
The testers also say its a barren waste land with shitty graphics and shitty sound and "meh" combat system which consists of spamming your mouse button..
This is not "subjective". The only people to who this would be subjective are the last fanboys who are still clinging on to hope that this played out joke of a project will actually deliver everything its been talking about for the last 7 years.
BUT IT WON'T.
That's beyond obvious at this pont.
Gameplay looks fantastic to you?
What part of running around in a mindless grab ass fest with terrible animations and circa 2002 graphics , is "fantastic" to you??
You can go play Savage 2 right now and get awesome graphics , great sound, great animations, and all the mindless grab ass PvP you want.. FOR FREE.
This game is a miserable failure in every way possible. From it's horrid non existent PR, to it's joke of a producer Tasos and all his bullshitting, to it's non existent public Beta 21 days before launch, to it's only EURO launch because no real publisher in the states will touch it with a ten foot pole.
Welcome to reality. Pull up a seat and stay a while.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
OR you attack and go grey, then he stands there while you get ganked. Could happen.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
If you're grouped or in a raidparty you wont take a alignment penalty for hitting eachothers.
So if you want to jump in to a AoE spell during a fight you have to concider that you have a group/raid party backing this guy up. So good luck.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
NPC guards is out, we have known this since Yellowbeards visit. Guard Towers is what guards a clan-city
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
That's pretty funny. If that were true, why bother allowing people to loot players, if it had no true gain to them? Embarassment? Inconvenience?
Has ANY MMORPG come out that WASN'T gear-based? Some are to a lesser extent than others, but I can't think of a single one in which the gear being used had NO impact on effectiveness.
You seriously need to think about reading up on the games you descuss, since you have obviously missed some extremely basic info about DFO gameplay.
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
That's pretty funny. If that were true, why bother allowing people to loot players, if it had no true gain to them? Embarassment? Inconvenience?
Has ANY MMORPG come out that WASN'T gear-based? Some are to a lesser extent than others, but I can't think of a single one in which the gear being used had NO impact on effectiveness.
You seriously need to think about reading up on the games you descuss, since you have obviously missed some extremely basic info about DFO gameplay.
If it isnt gear based then why have rare items? Read xyax's post above nileq, even if it pains you to be wrong yet again.
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
Heh... apparently you missed the recent article from Tasos and Claus as well.
I think you need to re-read the recent interview here:
www.curse.com/articles/darkfall-en-news/372269.aspx
Some quotes from Tasos and Claus from that link above:
So, according to Tasos and Claus there are very powerful and rare items. And yes, they can be looted just like everything else.
I did read that, it was really good.
But you can in no way say DF is itembased because there will be some items many will have. And as you say, its still a full loot FFAPvP game. Either those items will be lock in some bank or they will be owned by players that have earned the right to wear them.
Seriously This game is going to be so unfriendly to players, filled with so many Exploits Either it will have to go threw a trammel rework or it will fail with less then 10k subs.
You can't have a Blue/Grey/red system like that in a FPS combat game its way too easy to hit members of your own team.
I don't care how skilled you think you are, I promise you during the first 30 minutes of your DF gaming life you will toss a Fireball at a friendly or shoot a arrow into thier neck by mistake.
This game will only be fun to griefers with this system in place.
Alot of you guys that are praising DF, Calling it the Savior of MMO and "the game thats finally catered to you" Dont realize what your asking for.
All of you seem to think your going to be wolves, You are all getting excited over this alignment system figuring out ways you will be able to get players killed. You guys are so wrong I wonder if even 5% of you actually played UO.
I promise you almost none of you will be wolves, almost none of you will last in DF more then a month.
What will you do when your the sheep? team up? yeah cause wolves have problems hunting herds, right?
after the 22nd 95% of you guys will be crying that DF has Game balance issues and exploits and will say DF is a failer and your waiting for the next big thing (insert random FFApvp that sounds good in your head).
I'm going to laugh My ass off when all you guys come QQ on the boards after release.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
So you say it exists and is in beta tested by outside people..thats a progress
All other characterizations about the game you given are entirely subjective..gameplay looks fantastic for example it gaves me goosebumps to watch the fighting scenes in the videos.
The tester say the game is stable and they have experienced the fewest crashes/bugs of many betas experienced before ..that leads to the "game is tested" statements from official company ..
The testers also say its a barren waste land with shitty graphics and shitty sound and "meh" combat system which consists of spamming your mouse button..
This is not "subjective". The only people to who this would be subjective are the last fanboys who are still clinging on to hope that this played out joke of a project will actually deliver everything its been talking about for the last 7 years.
BUT IT WON'T.
That's beyond obvious at this pont.
Gameplay looks fantastic to you?
What part of running around in a mindless grab ass fest with terrible animations and circa 2002 graphics , is "fantastic" to you??
You can go play Savage 2 right now and get awesome graphics , great sound, great animations, and all the mindless grab ass PvP you want.. FOR FREE.
This game is a miserable failure in every way possible. From it's horrid non existent PR, to it's joke of a producer Tasos and all his bullshitting, to it's non existent public Beta 21 days before launch, to it's only EURO launch because no real publisher in the states will touch it with a ten foot pole.
Welcome to reality. Pull up a seat and stay a while.
People that only likes to see the bad points, and paint em all over the game are people generally being called haters in here.
Does gameplay look fantastic to me? How the fuck should i know - from the long vid released by the official copany it looks... well it has potential to work. But i dont really trust a vid from the producers that much couse they will only show the good parts naturally. And thats all i have to go on. And so do you - but you seem to see the bad things and scream Doomsday...
Well its up to you, but dont be surprised when scepticts and fanbois alike will flame you for your hater attitude
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
NPC guards is out, we have known this since Yellowbeards visit. Guard Towers is what guards a clan-city
Well apparently the "we" that have known it is a fairly small group. Perhaps you should let a few long-time posters on the official boards know as well.
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2497545#2497545
The thread above from about a month ago (Quite a bit AFTER Yellowbeard's visit) didn't sound like very many people were sure whether they were out or not.
The same goes for quite a few posters on the official boards. I've also never seen an official quote from a Dev. emphatically stating one way or the other, perhaps you could point me to the link where this was said?
Glad to hear that you've now cleared it up with 100% accurracy now though.
As for "exploiting the alignment mechanic" i think this post pretty much owned the thread ..
About the WoW vs DF item controversy i know the difference but can't see the problem ...
WoW Item counts because they "epic" , in DF item counts because of the effort put into to craft / obtain them ..
In WoW there is no item based motivation to enter a fight .in DF there is.
In WoW there is no item based motivation to avoid a fight , in DF there is.
Absolutely clear for me DF gives PvP fighting more sense then WoW ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Cos there is no epic items in DF!
Its not a item based MMO. A item is just a item, as in the real world.
Heh... apparently you missed the recent article from Tasos and Claus as well.
I think you need to re-read the recent interview here:
www.curse.com/articles/darkfall-en-news/372269.aspx
Some quotes from Tasos and Claus from that link above:
So, according to Tasos and Claus there are very powerful and rare items. And yes, they can be looted just like everything else.
I did read that, it was really good.
But you can in no way say DF is itembased because there will be some items many will have. And as you say, its still a full loot FFAPvP game. Either those items will be lock in some bank or they will be owned by players that have earned the right to wear them.
I don't disagree with that.
I was merely pointing out that your statement of :
"there is no epic items in DF!"
seems to be at odds with what the Devs themselves have told us about the game.
Unless... Rare, Unique, Powerful.. Items does not = Epic.
I think for the majority of players though... that description does in fact = Epic.
Or... perhaps you were implying that you don't believe what the Devs are telling us. That is an entirely valid opinion, so I guess that is possible. We will just have to play it ourselves in order to verify the veracity of their statements.
"If you hit someone of your faction you go grey for a few minutes, and people can kill you without getting an alignment hit. You have to be careful where you’re aiming with your arrows and spells when you're fighting near strangers of your faction, since people can jump in front to make you go grey and kill you with impunity."
Absolutely no surprise whatsoever we find out Darkfall has an extremely simplistic, arbitrary and easily exploited alignment systems.
The more we find out the worse it gets.
I wonder how many other features are also just as rudimentary and easily exploited.
Anyone with any experience of similar systems in many other MMO games from the past will understand this will be manipulated to its full advantage to the detriment of the game.
Crappy system, needs a lot more work, does not bode well that such a fundamental aspect governing the game is so poorly executed, if they can't even get the basic foundations of the game right imagine how awful the rest will be.
The system is well designed , every system has its flaws and player will try to find the ropes around, this one here DF designed make things simple to follow and offers most fun out of it ..
Its the best you can get between the extremes kill without fear penalties and having fun while enjoy the freedom the game offers you..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
blah blah... rant...rant...
Methinks you are in need of a plexiotomy: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php
blah blah... rant...rant...
Methinks you are in need of a plexiotomy: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php
I think Zero1 is failing to see that people will team-up to be a pack of wolves... to hunt a pack of sheeps... my only thing is if it plays fast and arcade like hellgate... or slow and boring like Warhammer... if it's slow I prolly won't play it
blah blah... rant...rant...
Methinks you are in need of a plexiotomy: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php
I think Zero1 is failing to see that people will team-up to be a pack of wolves... to hunt a pack of sheeps... my only thing is if it plays fast and arcade like hellgate... or slow and boring like Warhammer... if it's slow I prolly won't play it
There is this quote from the "beta tester" that most people think is legit..
"Melee combat feels like you are just trading blows. Back and forth. What can you say? They need to work on it and tweak it some."
Not sure if that answers if it is fast or slow though.