Originally posted by Tyvolus1 Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Cryptor Finally someone not afraid to post a positive WAR comment. I have been playing since day 1 and tons of us are having the best time ever. I played every single pay-to-play mmorpg out there available in North America and even after playing WAR since beta I stil think that it's the best one out of them all by far. It's nice to see all the new people trying it out now that people who really like the game are actually starting to be heard on the forums.
No offense but, how is this surprising?
He's the OP who started this thread called "WAR is amazing...."
mindless, boring, rehtoric. Nothing new to bring to the table, except for some rhetorical nonsense. Talk about surprising.
Youre right. Let me put something on the table worth a Tyvolous posting.
WAR is POS that brings nothing new to the table, just more handholding. It does exactly the same things that other games out there do better, that's why people are leaving.
great post -- Just curious if this is your "opinion?"
No actually many of the people on this site think WAR is fundamentally flawed.
I would fall into this category. While other posters have decried the poor implementation of the features, I didn't like WAR because of its similarity to WOW, and the fact it is more of a game, and not a world like DAOC was.
I think they would have done better trying to improve on the RVR formula set in their flagship game, however they decided to try and market to the WOW crowd, and it backfired on them.
Developers need to realize, you can't make a better WOW type game than WOW, as people have no reason to leave.
This guy now and then says a thing in one word what I can't do in a dozen.
Backfire is what you get if you market an MMORPG right in front of the gorilla. Some guys indeed hate my slogan of 10 weeks ago (every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK).
The problem is that even now this technique of "luring in bored Wow players" can be found now and then on our doorstep. Having played War between Sep 11 and Oct 1 (for free - tx Goa !), I got this sentence out of my pocket immediatly.
When I saw later posts on various forums doing exactly this technique of "luring in bored Wow gamers" I knew my first feeling was right. In the War game and out the game you could always find these same elements.
I never had that feeling with AoC or TR, perhaps because they had their own forums, but it always struck me when I heard MJ speak about things "gloves are off" and "adding" new servers every 6 weeks etc ... and do the Wow comparing ("we had to up our quality when TBC came out").
MJ was and is obsessed with Wow, just like the Disney woman in these forums.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
No actually many of the people on this site think WAR is fundamentally flawed.
I would fall into this category. While other posters have decried the poor implementation of the features, I didn't like WAR because of its similarity to WOW, and the fact it is more of a game, and not a world like DAOC was.
I think they would have done better trying to improve on the RVR formula set in their flagship game, however they decided to try and market to the WOW crowd, and it backfired on them.
Developers need to realize, you can't make a better WOW type game than WOW, as people have no reason to leave.
This guy now and then says a thing in one word what I can't do in a dozen.
Backfire is what you get if you market an MMORPG right in front of the gorilla. Some guys indeed hate my slogan of 10 weeks ago (every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK).
The problem is that even now this technique of "luring in bored Wow players" can be found now and then on our doorstep. Having played War between Sep 11 and Oct 1 (for free - tx Goa !), I got this sentence out of my pocket immediatly.
When I saw later posts on various forums doing exactly this technique of "luring in bored Wow gamers" I knew my first feeling was right. In the War game and out the game you could always find these same elements.
I never had that feeling with AoC or TR, perhaps because they had their own forums, but it always struck me when I heard MJ speak about things "gloves are off" and "adding" new servers every 6 weeks etc ... and do the Wow comparing ("we had to up our quality when TBC came out").
MJ was and is obsessed with Wow, just like the Disney woman in these forums.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
That's what happened.
Backfire.
All the publicity in the world wont get me to buy WOTLK. I am however, playing and enjoying WAR.
No actually many of the people on this site think WAR is fundamentally flawed.
I would fall into this category. While other posters have decried the poor implementation of the features, I didn't like WAR because of its similarity to WOW, and the fact it is more of a game, and not a world like DAOC was.
I think they would have done better trying to improve on the RVR formula set in their flagship game, however they decided to try and market to the WOW crowd, and it backfired on them.
Developers need to realize, you can't make a better WOW type game than WOW, as people have no reason to leave.
This guy now and then says a thing in one word what I can't do in a dozen.
Backfire is what you get if you market an MMORPG right in front of the gorilla. Some guys indeed hate my slogan of 10 weeks ago (every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK).
The problem is that even now this technique of "luring in bored Wow players" can be found now and then on our doorstep. Having played War between Sep 11 and Oct 1 (for free - tx Goa !), I got this sentence out of my pocket immediatly.
When I saw later posts on various forums doing exactly this technique of "luring in bored Wow gamers" I knew my first feeling was right. In the War game and out the game you could always find these same elements.
I never had that feeling with AoC or TR, perhaps because they had their own forums, but it always struck me when I heard MJ speak about things "gloves are off" and "adding" new servers every 6 weeks etc ... and do the Wow comparing ("we had to up our quality when TBC came out").
MJ was and is obsessed with Wow, just like the Disney woman in these forums.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
That's what happened.
Backfire.
All the publicity in the world wont get me to buy WOTLK. I am however, playing and enjoying WAR.
Publicity hardly sells things, mouth to mouth in RL does. That's what I mean in the sentence above: mouth to mouth publicity.
actually we don't need 1 or 2 people comparing WAR to WOW, truth of the matter is WOW has 11 million subs plus and WAR has well....they have ALOT of witch elves lol, but not even close to a million probably more like 300k right now and declining
Once again, here is a Warhammer player (I assume if you think "WAR is amazing", you are playing it now) that has a whole, empty page to talk about any Warhammer issue he'd like.
He could talk about the crashes and how to fix them, whether he thinks the possible instancing being introduced to Warhammer is a good idea/not. He could talk about his character and how cool it is or what needs to tweak on it. He could talk about the awesome 500 v 500 battle he had last night on Dark Crag. The Warhammer world is his oyster and that empty black page was his canvas. Or his latest cool Tome unlock. So..... what would he like to talk about in his two very first sentences?
I dont post this to bash WoW players. I played WoW for 4 yrs, so i know what the game has to offer.
Ok, explain to me again how War players aren't the ones constantly bringing up the WAR/WoW discussion and they hate when people compare the two because its unfair to Warhammer. Explain to me again how Wow fans invade the Warhammer boards to keep the focus away from a great game.
People are compairing WAR to WoW.
Could you please not talk about yourself in the third person anymore? Just say "I am comparing WAR to Wow." It's much easier to follow.
Ugg.. and the title had sooooooooo much promise too. *SIGH*
Now...this is a DIE HARD WoW player and one that only responded to this to Rant and Flame.
Anything said GOOD against another MMO that isn't WoW and he goes on the attack. Well...I play WoW and I play WAR...and both games have flaws, and if you can't see them...then your blind. WAR has some very good areas to it and so does WoW...But to bash a game that he proberbly hasn't even played is just really sad. It's a shame that theres people like that. Everyone has the right to there opinion and i agree with the poster on this one. If you only like WoW...then stick to the WoW forums.
Originally posted by angeles2o1o Originally posted by popinjay Once again, here is a Warhammer player (I assume if you think "WAR is amazing", you are playing it now) that has a whole, empty page to talk about any Warhammer issue he'd like.He could talk about the crashes and how to fix them, whether he thinks the possible instancing being introduced to Warhammer is a good idea/not. He could talk about his character and how cool it is or what needs to tweak on it. He could talk about the awesome 500 v 500 battle he had last night on Dark Crag. The Warhammer world is his oyster and that empty black page was his canvas. Or his latest cool Tome unlock. So..... what would he like to talk about in his two very first sentences?
I dont post this to bash WoW players. I played WoW for 4 yrs, so i know what the game has to offer.
Ok, explain to me again how War players aren't the ones constantly bringing up the WAR/WoW discussion and they hate when people compare the two because its unfair to Warhammer. Explain to me again how Wow fans invade the Warhammer boards to keep the focus away from a great game.
People are compairing WAR to WoW.
Could you please not talk about yourself in the third person anymore? Just say "I am comparing WAR to Wow." It's much easier to follow.
Ugg.. and the title had sooooooooo much promise too. *SIGH*
Now...this is a DIE HARD WoW player and one that only responded to this to Rant and Flame. Anything said GOOD against another MMO that isn't WoW and he goes on the attack. Well...I play WoW and I play WAR...and both games have flaws, and if you can't see them...then your blind. WAR has some very good areas to it and so does WoW...But to bash a game that he proberbly hasn't even played is just really sad. It's a shame that theres people like that. Everyone has the right to there opinion and i agree with the poster on this one. If you only like WoW...then stick to the WoW forums.
Sorry, LOTRO player. Don't play Wow. Not buying WoTL.. never mind. You wouldn't understand.
Imo: For everyone that says no one wants to leave whats comfy (WoW) because the other new games released are exactly like WoW thats because WoW is standard, easy and has copied from older generations of fantasy, e.g Tolkien and games workshop. I don't know about you guys but when I discuss mmo stuff with mates I compare everything to the original, standard and plain style of WoW. Games have to base there stuff on WoW. Basically I'm saying WoW is very easy to learn. It's like the base color of paint That is all.
Wow is a good game. War is a good game. People are addicted to Wow. So addicted that they don't see faults. Similar to when your in love with someone. You think they are perfect even though it might not be the case.
Wow is a good game. War is a good game. People are addicted to Wow. So addicted that they don't see faults. Similar to when your in love with someone. You think they are perfect even though it might not be the case.
One of the differences ... is you play Wow much longer than War. Ask yourself why.
I always see these posts of "I played Wow for 2 years and now I hate it". No problems 99% of the people will not play a game for such a long period.
The above sentence is also the reason why "bored" Wow players is a very bad ground to recruit War players, because you give them new ground to become even more quickly bored.
What Mythic also underestimated...: after a break most come back to the original they grew into, not the copy with less choices of play.
Watch the western based sample of Xfire. At the end of September the ratio between Wow and War players was 6/1. In October it was about 12/1, In november and december it grew to 22/1. Now - January (yesterday) the ratio was for the first time ABOVE 25/1. OK these are only Xfire players, but with these players you see a trend clearly.
I HOPE for Warhammer fans, Wow got to 5 million western subs, because if not, they only have about 200K active players left. Add the sleeping accounts and some newcomers and ... the upcoming spring lul with disastrous effects on the server pops...
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Oh wow where did you get this amazing analogy from? The most original one the haters like to use. keep up the good work. Not!.
Players aren't leaving War because it isn't like WOW.. they are leaving War because it is too much like WOW and doesn't excel at the things it was supposed to ( RvR and epic battles).
The big thing that was supposed to make Warhammer different than WOW as seiges.
1. Zone locking is borked - It's hard to lock a zone if the other side stops queueing for scenarios.. the actual VP system isn't understood and seems to be random and makes no logical sense. The best way to keep your zone from being locked is to go play in a different zone.
2. Fort raids - For the first 4 months, they are borked beyond belief. Any type of mass battle results in a server crash and reset. The only way to take a Fort is a stealth run in the middle of the night when nobody is defending... again, players wanted epic battles, not alarm-clock sniping.
3. City Seiges - So after jumping through two terrible hoops ( locking a zone, and surviving a Fort server crash), you now get to City seiges, only to find out that they are instanced, and 95% pve. ORvR in Tier 1 has better 'battles' than City Seiges?
Now let's look at where the majority of players spend the majority of their time
A. Scenarios - Exactly like WOW battlegrounds, only smaller and less complicated
B PQs - Exactly like a PvE rep grind
The only two things that really 'work' ingame are things that WOW does better. All the stuff that was supposed to seperate Warhammer from WOW is stuff that is borked or just plain designed badly. People aren't disappointed that Warhammer isn't more like WOW, players are disappointed that Warhammer has nothing different than WOW that actually works. If Mythic had made zone-locking, fort raids, and city seiges actually work, this game would be completely different than WOW.
This is an excellent post. If it got stickied it would save a lot of pointless threads. Number 3 is the real killer for this game.
I agree with the op in general. My WAR guild just lost one player who came back to WoW. He was really into the game and was quite sick of WoW for a long time(/1) but he came from an estabilished WoW guild and after a few months waiting he gave up trying to get his guildies to even try the game. He was really bitter about it and I think he'll leave MMOs altogether - that or manage to fight off the peer pressure he is under... The gravity WoW has is frightening - players staying there will try to suck back in everybody who tries to leave. Old leet timers will not allow their "accomplishments" to dwindle away - they have too much ego invested in it. New games present a new playing field. For some people leaving WoW would mean the confirmation of a feeling they tried to suppress all along - that they did waste 4 years of their life on collecting pixels. They will never admit it - for them WoW (and some other MMOs tbf) is much much more than just a game and they will go to any lengths in order to protect their "investment". MMOs as a game genre are quite special in this regard. In most other genres when a new game comes out you'll play it, especially if its better than old one... MMOs have this staying power (which they need to have due to their revenue model) which is really destructive to the advancement of the genre - new games have to contend with much much more than mere competition on the level of quality. /1 Not bashing WoW here - it is quite normal you get a bit jaded with a game, any game, after playing it for 4 years... In fact I'd argue that it is not normal to be content with the same old product for 4 years and to the level that you reject any other experience out of hand. That's quite specific to MMO genre - and I'm really getting worried that this fanaticism-breeding quality that they have is quite unhealthy.
Both the above post and the OP bring up excellent points I had not considered before. Very insightful and helps explain to me why some wow players act the way they do. +1
Also I think it's pretty funny reading some of the other posts here. A lot of them seem to go off on tangents that have nothing to do with the op's original statement. I think some people see WAR is amazing and copy and paste their kneejerk negativity without even reading the OP post all the way through.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Oh wow where did you get this amazing analogy from? The most original one the haters like to use. keep up the good work. Not!.
Not the first time i use it. And have gotten comments that its a decent analogy. Cant help it if ya dont get it.
Btw: I dont like Mc Donalds alot even tho i go there sometimes. I prefer the local snack bar.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Oh wow where did you get this amazing analogy from? The most original one the haters like to use. keep up the good work. Not!.
Not the first time i use it. And have gotten comments that its a decent analogy. Cant help it if ya dont get it.
Btw: I dont like Mc Donalds alot even tho i go there sometimes. I prefer the local snack bar.
But you aren't bringing in any arguments. I spoke of the BMW because the OP used it in his post. And I spoke of an excellent "model" you can buy. If you want to have your own model, better have a good alternative (like another standing German car but with a later date).
You guys make one mistake: Wow is not the fast food. It is the best selling MMORPG (or model) ... and it has the most western subscriptions by far (more important than selling the model).
So I made analogy between the existing succesful model and what a new model has to have to beat it.
--
Suddenly coming up with food chains restos is way off, because food chains are not "models" you buy and rent (subscribe to).
You all underestimate the Wow model anno 2009, like I said the player number ratio between Wow and War is now 25/1 on Xfire, coming from 6 to 1 a mere ... 3 months ago.
Even the "non PvP" LOTRO game is only 25% behind War players on Xfire now. So the figures show more than ever before... what's going on...
I agree with the op in general. My WAR guild just lost one player who came back to WoW. He was really into the game and was quite sick of WoW for a long time(/1) but he came from an estabilished WoW guild and after a few months waiting he gave up trying to get his guildies to even try the game. He was really bitter about it and I think he'll leave MMOs altogether - that or manage to fight off the peer pressure he is under... The gravity WoW has is frightening - players staying there will try to suck back in everybody who tries to leave. Old leet timers will not allow their "accomplishments" to dwindle away - they have too much ego invested in it. New games present a new playing field. For some people leaving WoW would mean the confirmation of a feeling they tried to suppress all along - that they did waste 4 years of their life on collecting pixels. They will never admit it - for them WoW (and some other MMOs tbf) is much much more than just a game and they will go to any lengths in order to protect their "investment". MMOs as a game genre are quite special in this regard. In most other genres when a new game comes out you'll play it, especially if its better than old one... MMOs have this staying power (which they need to have due to their revenue model) which is really destructive to the advancement of the genre - new games have to contend with much much more than mere competition on the level of quality. /1 Not bashing WoW here - it is quite normal you get a bit jaded with a game, any game, after playing it for 4 years... In fact I'd argue that it is not normal to be content with the same old product for 4 years and to the level that you reject any other experience out of hand. That's quite specific to MMO genre - and I'm really getting worried that this fanaticism-breeding quality that they have is quite unhealthy.
Both the above post and the OP bring up excellent points I had not considered before. Very insightful and helps explain to me why some wow players act the way they do. +1
Also I think it's pretty funny reading some of the other posts here. A lot of them seem to go off on tangents that have nothing to do with the op's original statement. I think some people see WAR is amazing and copy and paste their kneejerk negativity without even reading the OP post all the way through.
Markaros is the Disney woman I spoke about earlier.
She thought luring in the "bored" Wow player could be a real succes. That's why they always talk about Wow. Problem is that it backfires... always.
If you talk into game experiences of War and tell tales like "I flew to X on my heli" to help my guildie, you don't expect to imagine this. it has to happen - like in Wow.
If you DO attack a fortress, it has to have broken walls, collapsable buildings, mobile siege engines, manned combat tanks, WoW has them ... in War you knock on a door...
Now of course its the players fault. they are too conservative. Just like it was the players fault when War wasn't "played correctly".
If War was WAY better than Wow, it would have gained a good portion of its player base (perhaps even 1 million). They DID have 750/800 K "users" to try it in Sep 2008, hence the full servers. But ...
It didn't happen, not because it is the fault of the players, but because you can't beat the orginal succeful MMORPG with its own elements (BG's, PVE, Raids, Crafting, ...).
The OP forgot to mention Wow was already a BMW and its latest model reads - copyright Nov 2008 -.
But you aren't bringing in any arguments. I spoke of the BMW because the OP used it in his post. And I spoke of an excellent "model" you can buy. If you want to have your own model, better have a good alternative (like another standing German car but with a later date). You guys make one mistake: Wow is not the fast food. It is the best selling MMORPG (or model) ... and it has the most western subscriptions by far (more important than selling the model). So I made analogy between the existing succesful model and what a new model has to have to beat it. -- Suddenly coming up with food chains restos is way off, because food chains are not "models" you buy and rent (subscribe to). You all underestimate the Wow model anno 2009, like I said the player number ratio between Wow and War is now 25/1 on Xfire, coming from 6 to 1 a mere ... 3 months ago. Even the "non PvP" LOTRO game is only 25% behind War players on Xfire now. So the figures show more than ever before... what's going on...
My argument is this:
WoW has grown at a certain moment so big that when ppl who are not used to mmo's speak of them, they speak of WoW. People start to generalise it as its the only things in the MMO business.
This is a big draw point for new players to the genre and the game.
Wich is where the base is for my analogy.
No, I am not claiming this is the only point why they have that much success.
Not even gonna start about xfire. Its as those analytics sites. Its an indication but way to inaccurate.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Unfortunately,the meat is undercooked and is 2 years out of date. Theyve named their top burger 'Large Mick' to try and copy the big mac as closely as possible,except that the bun is soggy and half the ingredients are missing (though the vendor promises theyll be in soon.)
Some burgers are ok,though theyre pretty bland and you can see how the guy has tried to copy other burgers from burger king,mcdonalds and more,but they just dont have the same flavour and the pictures and description on the box are nothing like what you actually get. One burger is supposed to have 100 pieces of onion in it,but only 45 would fit so the rest had to be kicked out.
The worst part is that when you go to pay for your meal,the till gets stuck and the guy has to hit it with his shoe to get the drawer to open. Often this doesnt work so he switches it off at the mains socket and reboots it,but then hes lost all the information about your order. Then for all this he tries to charge you as much money for the large Mick as the Big Mac,which leaves a sour taste in your mouth-and im not talking about the same taste from all those other brand preheated mass produced burgers.
Wow is a good game. War is a good game. People are addicted to Wow. So addicted that they don't see faults. Similar to when your in love with someone. You think they are perfect even though it might not be the case.
Actually this may be true for some but not all. At least 8 of my guild (about half) have resubbed to WoW, me and a friend have moved on to EvE.
Now for the guildies playing WoW, they have spoken to me numerous times about the faults of WoW and their distate for certain areas of the games. They don't like the arena system because they feel it's a toxic system with the quest for the leet gear, but they've found more world pvp just running quests to level up to 80 than they ever found in WAR. Now keep in mind my guildies are all about pvp. They either hate pve or don't mind it too much depending on the situation, but they certainly don't love it.
What they have told me is, WoW has way less bugs, the crafting system is better, the unexpected small battle world pvp is more frequent, and the battlegrounds are similar to the scenarios, overall the game is just better designed.
We are almost all old daoc players and WAR advertised the daoc RvR feeling even if the mechanics, classes, and story were different. We didn't get it. We got a game that had multiple parts thrown together which aren't fluid and many are just flat out broken. People aren't going back to WoW because they're addicted, but because WAR failed in its core design and to deliver on its promises.
Wow is a good game. War is a good game. People are addicted to Wow. So addicted that they don't see faults. Similar to when your in love with someone. You think they are perfect even though it might not be the case.
Actually this may be true for some but not all. At least 8 of my guild (about half) have resubbed to WoW, me and a friend have moved on to EvE.
Now for the guildies playing WoW, they have spoken to me numerous times about the faults of WoW and their distate for certain areas of the games. They don't like the arena system because they feel it's a toxic system with the quest for the leet gear, but they've found more world pvp just running quests to level up to 80 than they ever found in WAR. Now keep in mind my guildies are all about pvp. They either hate pve or don't mind it too much depending on the situation, but they certainly don't love it.
What they have told me is, WoW has way less bugs, the crafting system is better, the unexpected small battle world pvp is more frequent, and the battlegrounds are similar to the scenarios, overall the game is just better designed.
We are almost all old daoc players and WAR advertised the daoc RvR feeling even if the mechanics, classes, and story were different. We didn't get it. We got a game that had multiple parts thrown together which aren't fluid and many are just flat out broken. People aren't going back to WoW because they're addicted, but because WAR failed in its core design and to deliver on its promises.
I wont play any MMO without PVP and I have no desire to return to wow -- EVER. Paladins to the horde was the end for me. And to be quite honest I never played wow exclusively, I was usually running 2 MMOs and wow was the one I played less. EQ 2 and Lineage 2 are far better games. Anyways I am glad your friends can stomach the pvp and the limited, cookie-cutter classes. But, I need a mix of classes for pvp to be exciting and fun. If I am a shaman for alliance I should not be fighting the cookie-cutter opposite shaman for horde.
WAR wins for me for many reasons, but the class selection is a BIG one. 22 classes to now, wow just hit 9. And the 2 factions can play them all.
No, thanks. Lineage 2, EQ2, and WAR all blow wow away -- and they all have ALOT of classes to choose from. Blizz destryoyed world pvp a long time ago -- I know, I was playing at the time. YOur friends can harp on random encounters all they want in wow -- they exist in WAR too. Go to the other factions realm, in their quest areas, near their warcamps etc and tell me open world random pvp doesnt exist in WAR. Your friends are all about pvp yet prefer wows limited classes for pvp and the fact you can run through enemy players -- ummm, ok.
Comments
and Lord forbid WAR is too much like WoW and the same level based clone fest most MMO's are.....
10 print "go home"
20 goto 10
No offense but, how is this surprising?
He's the OP who started this thread called "WAR is amazing...."
mindless, boring, rehtoric. Nothing new to bring to the table, except for some rhetorical nonsense. Talk about surprising.
Youre right. Let me put something on the table worth a Tyvolous posting.
Here goes:
"TO MICHAEL!"
great post -- Just curious if this is your "opinion?"
I would fall into this category. While other posters have decried the poor implementation of the features, I didn't like WAR because of its similarity to WOW, and the fact it is more of a game, and not a world like DAOC was.
I think they would have done better trying to improve on the RVR formula set in their flagship game, however they decided to try and market to the WOW crowd, and it backfired on them.
Developers need to realize, you can't make a better WOW type game than WOW, as people have no reason to leave.
This guy now and then says a thing in one word what I can't do in a dozen.
Backfire is what you get if you market an MMORPG right in front of the gorilla. Some guys indeed hate my slogan of 10 weeks ago (every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK).
The problem is that even now this technique of "luring in bored Wow players" can be found now and then on our doorstep. Having played War between Sep 11 and Oct 1 (for free - tx Goa !), I got this sentence out of my pocket immediatly.
When I saw later posts on various forums doing exactly this technique of "luring in bored Wow gamers" I knew my first feeling was right. In the War game and out the game you could always find these same elements.
I never had that feeling with AoC or TR, perhaps because they had their own forums, but it always struck me when I heard MJ speak about things "gloves are off" and "adding" new servers every 6 weeks etc ... and do the Wow comparing ("we had to up our quality when TBC came out").
MJ was and is obsessed with Wow, just like the Disney woman in these forums.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
That's what happened.
Backfire.
I would fall into this category. While other posters have decried the poor implementation of the features, I didn't like WAR because of its similarity to WOW, and the fact it is more of a game, and not a world like DAOC was.
I think they would have done better trying to improve on the RVR formula set in their flagship game, however they decided to try and market to the WOW crowd, and it backfired on them.
Developers need to realize, you can't make a better WOW type game than WOW, as people have no reason to leave.
This guy now and then says a thing in one word what I can't do in a dozen.
Backfire is what you get if you market an MMORPG right in front of the gorilla. Some guys indeed hate my slogan of 10 weeks ago (every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK).
The problem is that even now this technique of "luring in bored Wow players" can be found now and then on our doorstep. Having played War between Sep 11 and Oct 1 (for free - tx Goa !), I got this sentence out of my pocket immediatly.
When I saw later posts on various forums doing exactly this technique of "luring in bored Wow gamers" I knew my first feeling was right. In the War game and out the game you could always find these same elements.
I never had that feeling with AoC or TR, perhaps because they had their own forums, but it always struck me when I heard MJ speak about things "gloves are off" and "adding" new servers every 6 weeks etc ... and do the Wow comparing ("we had to up our quality when TBC came out").
MJ was and is obsessed with Wow, just like the Disney woman in these forums.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
That's what happened.
Backfire.
All the publicity in the world wont get me to buy WOTLK. I am however, playing and enjoying WAR.
I would fall into this category. While other posters have decried the poor implementation of the features, I didn't like WAR because of its similarity to WOW, and the fact it is more of a game, and not a world like DAOC was.
I think they would have done better trying to improve on the RVR formula set in their flagship game, however they decided to try and market to the WOW crowd, and it backfired on them.
Developers need to realize, you can't make a better WOW type game than WOW, as people have no reason to leave.
This guy now and then says a thing in one word what I can't do in a dozen.
Backfire is what you get if you market an MMORPG right in front of the gorilla. Some guys indeed hate my slogan of 10 weeks ago (every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK).
The problem is that even now this technique of "luring in bored Wow players" can be found now and then on our doorstep. Having played War between Sep 11 and Oct 1 (for free - tx Goa !), I got this sentence out of my pocket immediatly.
When I saw later posts on various forums doing exactly this technique of "luring in bored Wow gamers" I knew my first feeling was right. In the War game and out the game you could always find these same elements.
I never had that feeling with AoC or TR, perhaps because they had their own forums, but it always struck me when I heard MJ speak about things "gloves are off" and "adding" new servers every 6 weeks etc ... and do the Wow comparing ("we had to up our quality when TBC came out").
MJ was and is obsessed with Wow, just like the Disney woman in these forums.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
That's what happened.
Backfire.
All the publicity in the world wont get me to buy WOTLK. I am however, playing and enjoying WAR.
Publicity hardly sells things, mouth to mouth in RL does. That's what I mean in the sentence above: mouth to mouth publicity.
Have fun !
actually we don't need 1 or 2 people comparing WAR to WOW, truth of the matter is WOW has 11 million subs plus and WAR has well....they have ALOT of witch elves lol, but not even close to a million probably more like 300k right now and declining
Once again, here is a Warhammer player (I assume if you think "WAR is amazing", you are playing it now) that has a whole, empty page to talk about any Warhammer issue he'd like.
He could talk about the crashes and how to fix them, whether he thinks the possible instancing being introduced to Warhammer is a good idea/not. He could talk about his character and how cool it is or what needs to tweak on it. He could talk about the awesome 500 v 500 battle he had last night on Dark Crag. The Warhammer world is his oyster and that empty black page was his canvas. Or his latest cool Tome unlock. So..... what would he like to talk about in his two very first sentences?
Ok, explain to me again how War players aren't the ones constantly bringing up the WAR/WoW discussion and they hate when people compare the two because its unfair to Warhammer. Explain to me again how Wow fans invade the Warhammer boards to keep the focus away from a great game.
Ugg.. and the title had sooooooooo much promise too. *SIGH*
Now...this is a DIE HARD WoW player and one that only responded to this to Rant and Flame.
Anything said GOOD against another MMO that isn't WoW and he goes on the attack. Well...I play WoW and I play WAR...and both games have flaws, and if you can't see them...then your blind. WAR has some very good areas to it and so does WoW...But to bash a game that he proberbly hasn't even played is just really sad. It's a shame that theres people like that. Everyone has the right to there opinion and i agree with the poster on this one. If you only like WoW...then stick to the WoW forums.
Ok, explain to me again how War players aren't the ones constantly bringing up the WAR/WoW discussion and they hate when people compare the two because its unfair to Warhammer. Explain to me again how Wow fans invade the Warhammer boards to keep the focus away from a great game.
People are compairing WAR to WoW.
Could you please not talk about yourself in the third person anymore? Just say "I am comparing WAR to Wow." It's much easier to follow.
Ugg.. and the title had sooooooooo much promise too. *SIGH*
Now...this is a DIE HARD WoW player and one that only responded to this to Rant and Flame.
Anything said GOOD against another MMO that isn't WoW and he goes on the attack. Well...I play WoW and I play WAR...and both games have flaws, and if you can't see them...then your blind. WAR has some very good areas to it and so does WoW...But to bash a game that he proberbly hasn't even played is just really sad. It's a shame that theres people like that. Everyone has the right to there opinion and i agree with the poster on this one. If you only like WoW...then stick to the WoW forums.
Sorry, LOTRO player. Don't play Wow. Not buying WoTL.. never mind. You wouldn't understand.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Imo: For everyone that says no one wants to leave whats comfy (WoW) because the other new games released are exactly like WoW thats because WoW is standard, easy and has copied from older generations of fantasy, e.g Tolkien and games workshop. I don't know about you guys but when I discuss mmo stuff with mates I compare everything to the original, standard and plain style of WoW. Games have to base there stuff on WoW. Basically I'm saying WoW is very easy to learn. It's like the base color of paint That is all.
Wow is a good game. War is a good game. People are addicted to Wow. So addicted that they don't see faults. Similar to when your in love with someone. You think they are perfect even though it might not be the case.
One of the differences ... is you play Wow much longer than War. Ask yourself why.
I always see these posts of "I played Wow for 2 years and now I hate it". No problems 99% of the people will not play a game for such a long period.
The above sentence is also the reason why "bored" Wow players is a very bad ground to recruit War players, because you give them new ground to become even more quickly bored.
What Mythic also underestimated...: after a break most come back to the original they grew into, not the copy with less choices of play.
Watch the western based sample of Xfire. At the end of September the ratio between Wow and War players was 6/1. In October it was about 12/1, In november and december it grew to 22/1. Now - January (yesterday) the ratio was for the first time ABOVE 25/1. OK these are only Xfire players, but with these players you see a trend clearly.
I HOPE for Warhammer fans, Wow got to 5 million western subs, because if not, they only have about 200K active players left. Add the sleeping accounts and some newcomers and ... the upcoming spring lul with disastrous effects on the server pops...
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Oh wow where did you get this amazing analogy from? The most original one the haters like to use. keep up the good work. Not!.
This is completely wrong.
Players aren't leaving War because it isn't like WOW.. they are leaving War because it is too much like WOW and doesn't excel at the things it was supposed to ( RvR and epic battles).
The big thing that was supposed to make Warhammer different than WOW as seiges.
1. Zone locking is borked - It's hard to lock a zone if the other side stops queueing for scenarios.. the actual VP system isn't understood and seems to be random and makes no logical sense. The best way to keep your zone from being locked is to go play in a different zone.
2. Fort raids - For the first 4 months, they are borked beyond belief. Any type of mass battle results in a server crash and reset. The only way to take a Fort is a stealth run in the middle of the night when nobody is defending... again, players wanted epic battles, not alarm-clock sniping.
3. City Seiges - So after jumping through two terrible hoops ( locking a zone, and surviving a Fort server crash), you now get to City seiges, only to find out that they are instanced, and 95% pve. ORvR in Tier 1 has better 'battles' than City Seiges?
Now let's look at where the majority of players spend the majority of their time
A. Scenarios - Exactly like WOW battlegrounds, only smaller and less complicated
B PQs - Exactly like a PvE rep grind
The only two things that really 'work' ingame are things that WOW does better. All the stuff that was supposed to seperate Warhammer from WOW is stuff that is borked or just plain designed badly. People aren't disappointed that Warhammer isn't more like WOW, players are disappointed that Warhammer has nothing different than WOW that actually works. If Mythic had made zone-locking, fort raids, and city seiges actually work, this game would be completely different than WOW.
This is an excellent post. If it got stickied it would save a lot of pointless threads. Number 3 is the real killer for this game.
Both the above post and the OP bring up excellent points I had not considered before. Very insightful and helps explain to me why some wow players act the way they do. +1
Also I think it's pretty funny reading some of the other posts here. A lot of them seem to go off on tangents that have nothing to do with the op's original statement. I think some people see WAR is amazing and copy and paste their kneejerk negativity without even reading the OP post all the way through.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Oh wow where did you get this amazing analogy from? The most original one the haters like to use. keep up the good work. Not!.
Not the first time i use it. And have gotten comments that its a decent analogy. Cant help it if ya dont get it.
Btw: I dont like Mc Donalds alot even tho i go there sometimes. I prefer the local snack bar.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Oh wow where did you get this amazing analogy from? The most original one the haters like to use. keep up the good work. Not!.
Not the first time i use it. And have gotten comments that its a decent analogy. Cant help it if ya dont get it.
Btw: I dont like Mc Donalds alot even tho i go there sometimes. I prefer the local snack bar.
But you aren't bringing in any arguments. I spoke of the BMW because the OP used it in his post. And I spoke of an excellent "model" you can buy. If you want to have your own model, better have a good alternative (like another standing German car but with a later date).
You guys make one mistake: Wow is not the fast food. It is the best selling MMORPG (or model) ... and it has the most western subscriptions by far (more important than selling the model).
So I made analogy between the existing succesful model and what a new model has to have to beat it.
--
Suddenly coming up with food chains restos is way off, because food chains are not "models" you buy and rent (subscribe to).
You all underestimate the Wow model anno 2009, like I said the player number ratio between Wow and War is now 25/1 on Xfire, coming from 6 to 1 a mere ... 3 months ago.
Even the "non PvP" LOTRO game is only 25% behind War players on Xfire now. So the figures show more than ever before... what's going on...
Both the above post and the OP bring up excellent points I had not considered before. Very insightful and helps explain to me why some wow players act the way they do. +1
Also I think it's pretty funny reading some of the other posts here. A lot of them seem to go off on tangents that have nothing to do with the op's original statement. I think some people see WAR is amazing and copy and paste their kneejerk negativity without even reading the OP post all the way through.
Markaros is the Disney woman I spoke about earlier.
She thought luring in the "bored" Wow player could be a real succes. That's why they always talk about Wow. Problem is that it backfires... always.
If you talk into game experiences of War and tell tales like "I flew to X on my heli" to help my guildie, you don't expect to imagine this. it has to happen - like in Wow.
If you DO attack a fortress, it has to have broken walls, collapsable buildings, mobile siege engines, manned combat tanks, WoW has them ... in War you knock on a door...
Now of course its the players fault. they are too conservative. Just like it was the players fault when War wasn't "played correctly".
If War was WAY better than Wow, it would have gained a good portion of its player base (perhaps even 1 million). They DID have 750/800 K "users" to try it in Sep 2008, hence the full servers. But ...
It didn't happen, not because it is the fault of the players, but because you can't beat the orginal succeful MMORPG with its own elements (BG's, PVE, Raids, Crafting, ...).
The OP forgot to mention Wow was already a BMW and its latest model reads - copyright Nov 2008 -.
I didn't read any of your post except the OP's because i hate you guys a lot.
I played war. I played wow. War is a crappy game. WoW is not a crappy game (but it gets boring).
WOW isn't crappy at all it's just getting to the point where it's becomeing stale to people that have played it along time.
My argument is this:
WoW has grown at a certain moment so big that when ppl who are not used to mmo's speak of them, they speak of WoW. People start to generalise it as its the only things in the MMO business.
This is a big draw point for new players to the genre and the game.
Wich is where the base is for my analogy.
No, I am not claiming this is the only point why they have that much success.
Not even gonna start about xfire. Its as those analytics sites. Its an indication but way to inaccurate.
OP: the problem is ... Wow is already a BMW, so you must produce a full option Mercedes - and at least a model 2009 - to even think of competing, or else you are making publicity for the current BMW model.
I make a different comparison.
WoW = Mc Donalds. Its everywhere, huge amount of people go there. Its fast bite but it leaves you with a empty feeling.
WaR = Local snack bar. Only locals know it but keep going because ya get a decent meal.
Unfortunately,the meat is undercooked and is 2 years out of date. Theyve named their top burger 'Large Mick' to try and copy the big mac as closely as possible,except that the bun is soggy and half the ingredients are missing (though the vendor promises theyll be in soon.)
Some burgers are ok,though theyre pretty bland and you can see how the guy has tried to copy other burgers from burger king,mcdonalds and more,but they just dont have the same flavour and the pictures and description on the box are nothing like what you actually get. One burger is supposed to have 100 pieces of onion in it,but only 45 would fit so the rest had to be kicked out.
The worst part is that when you go to pay for your meal,the till gets stuck and the guy has to hit it with his shoe to get the drawer to open. Often this doesnt work so he switches it off at the mains socket and reboots it,but then hes lost all the information about your order. Then for all this he tries to charge you as much money for the large Mick as the Big Mac,which leaves a sour taste in your mouth-and im not talking about the same taste from all those other brand preheated mass produced burgers.
Actually this may be true for some but not all. At least 8 of my guild (about half) have resubbed to WoW, me and a friend have moved on to EvE.
Now for the guildies playing WoW, they have spoken to me numerous times about the faults of WoW and their distate for certain areas of the games. They don't like the arena system because they feel it's a toxic system with the quest for the leet gear, but they've found more world pvp just running quests to level up to 80 than they ever found in WAR. Now keep in mind my guildies are all about pvp. They either hate pve or don't mind it too much depending on the situation, but they certainly don't love it.
What they have told me is, WoW has way less bugs, the crafting system is better, the unexpected small battle world pvp is more frequent, and the battlegrounds are similar to the scenarios, overall the game is just better designed.
We are almost all old daoc players and WAR advertised the daoc RvR feeling even if the mechanics, classes, and story were different. We didn't get it. We got a game that had multiple parts thrown together which aren't fluid and many are just flat out broken. People aren't going back to WoW because they're addicted, but because WAR failed in its core design and to deliver on its promises.
Actually this may be true for some but not all. At least 8 of my guild (about half) have resubbed to WoW, me and a friend have moved on to EvE.
Now for the guildies playing WoW, they have spoken to me numerous times about the faults of WoW and their distate for certain areas of the games. They don't like the arena system because they feel it's a toxic system with the quest for the leet gear, but they've found more world pvp just running quests to level up to 80 than they ever found in WAR. Now keep in mind my guildies are all about pvp. They either hate pve or don't mind it too much depending on the situation, but they certainly don't love it.
What they have told me is, WoW has way less bugs, the crafting system is better, the unexpected small battle world pvp is more frequent, and the battlegrounds are similar to the scenarios, overall the game is just better designed.
We are almost all old daoc players and WAR advertised the daoc RvR feeling even if the mechanics, classes, and story were different. We didn't get it. We got a game that had multiple parts thrown together which aren't fluid and many are just flat out broken. People aren't going back to WoW because they're addicted, but because WAR failed in its core design and to deliver on its promises.
I wont play any MMO without PVP and I have no desire to return to wow -- EVER. Paladins to the horde was the end for me. And to be quite honest I never played wow exclusively, I was usually running 2 MMOs and wow was the one I played less. EQ 2 and Lineage 2 are far better games. Anyways I am glad your friends can stomach the pvp and the limited, cookie-cutter classes. But, I need a mix of classes for pvp to be exciting and fun. If I am a shaman for alliance I should not be fighting the cookie-cutter opposite shaman for horde.
WAR wins for me for many reasons, but the class selection is a BIG one. 22 classes to now, wow just hit 9. And the 2 factions can play them all.
No, thanks. Lineage 2, EQ2, and WAR all blow wow away -- and they all have ALOT of classes to choose from. Blizz destryoyed world pvp a long time ago -- I know, I was playing at the time. YOur friends can harp on random encounters all they want in wow -- they exist in WAR too. Go to the other factions realm, in their quest areas, near their warcamps etc and tell me open world random pvp doesnt exist in WAR. Your friends are all about pvp yet prefer wows limited classes for pvp and the fact you can run through enemy players -- ummm, ok.