I do not care if its because they are new, they are bucking the trend, they think they are doing a good enough job, they think they got message out already, they do not want WOW"s players....there is a fine line between good and bad business sense. If they expect to have the players they need to pay the bills, they need to do some sort of marketing and provide the information NEEDED by gamers to make an informed decision.
What exactly is the info that is NEEDED before release and can you explain your reasons for needing it? I can't really see any info that I need personally that can't wait until the game is available for purchase.
I do not care if its because they are new, they are bucking the trend, they think they are doing a good enough job, they think they got message out already, they do not want WOW"s players....there is a fine line between good and bad business sense. If they expect to have the players they need to pay the bills, they need to do some sort of marketing and provide the information NEEDED by gamers to make an informed decision.
What exactly is the info that is NEEDED before release and can you explain your reasons for needing it? I can't really see any info that I need personally that can't wait until the game is available for purchase.
Players need that information like he said, to make an informed decision, would you buy a car from a company that barely tells you anything about it? I wouldnt, especially not from a company who is still trying to produce their first one and expects you to buy it on blind faith alone.
Originally posted by Arcken Players need that information like he said, to make an informed decision, would you buy a car from a company that barely tells you anything about it? I wouldnt, especially not from a company who is still trying to produce their first one and expects you to buy it on blind faith alone.
That was too vague, I want specifics as I have yet to see any arguement for releasing this info until the game becomes available.
Example: "I need to know ...... before release because ....... and I would not be able to do this after the game has released because ........."
Originally posted by Arcken Players need that information like he said, to make an informed decision, would you buy a car from a company that barely tells you anything about it? I wouldnt, especially not from a company who is still trying to produce their first one and expects you to buy it on blind faith alone.
That was too vague, I want specifics as I have yet to see any arguement for releasing this info until the game becomes available.
Its not vague at all, you want as many customers as you can get. How do you do that? You give them what they want. And what do they want? Information. Its as simple as that.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
The only "good" reason for the lack of reviews and publicity is the developers fear lacking the infrastructure to cope with a massive demand when the game starts. I put good in quotes because if the game was really that good and groundbreaking with it marvellous technological innovations then I think some company would spot the obvious potential. Sometinhg smells funny.
So I am guessing the game is fairly medicore at best. Could be wrong but the transcript from coffee morning suggests the developers need more investors. Which means either the 22nd is a fat lie and development is continuing or money is needed for infastructure.
It has brought a much needed level of common sense that I haven't seen here in a long time. People who don't normally visit here are coming in with reasonable expectations and logical views that promptly rip apart all the arguments that the Darkfall followers have been using for months and months.
Even if some of those views are shrouded in entertaining sarcasm. For a while it seemed like the whole MMORPG community was like Darkfall followers (esp after that 'most Anticipated Poll), It is so good to see that it's NOT.
So I am guessing the game is fairly medicore at best. Could be wrong but the transcript from coffee morning suggests the developers need more investors. Which means either the 22nd is a fat lie and development is continuing or money is needed for infastructure.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
I'm guessing that it's the latter and that they are keeping it quiet so that the, "Most Anticipated Game" hype, draws sufficient numbers to pad their pockets to pay for the lack of investments.
What i have been able to absorb from this thread is, there is a faction that believes Darkfall isnt ready to launch and a faction that believes it is ready to launch but doesnt care if it has subscribers or not (because its not about being mainstream) so therefore is keeping the launch as quiet as possible?
yeah apparently Tasos is so anti-establishment and anti-wow that he'd rather Darkfall do poorly. Better to have 10k subscribers and not be sellouts.
pfftttt
Tasos has bills to pay like everyone else does. They'd gladly accept the money if 1 million wow players signed up for Darkfall on launch day.
This anti-mainstream stance the fans and Tasos has taken is bogus. Its nothing more than excuse for a low budget game that lacks professionalism and any semblance of marketing strategy.
It costs very little money to mail some demo discs to some game magazines and gaming sites. It costs nothing to release videos on ytube and to game sites showing more than just a grainy edited raid. It costs nothing to sit down for an interview or let a reporter on-site to get a peek at the game.
course the darkfall fans say its a conspiracy by the gaming media. That Darkfall is being ignored because their too small to be noticed.
Darkfall isnt being ignored. Its just refusing to show anything
Because when half the games on this website were released they had a box you could buy in the store. Please gtfo guys. This isn't a game that needs advertising or a fancy box in Wal-Mart. There are several better arguments on why this game is a Dark and Light repeat, but "There's no box I can buy in the store" is the most retarded thing I've seen from the "MMOPROs" on this website.
a box in a store tells me the game isnt vaporware.
Yes even now I still think vaporware is a possibility. All we have seen to date is a grainy edited video to prove the game exists. Rumors of 200 of Tasos' relatives playing beta. And some screenshots. Not that screenies mean anything, we had screenshots of Star Trek Online by Perpetual Entertainment and they admitedly didnt do anything beyond conceptual artwork before crashing and burning.
9 days from launch and nothing yet on how much the game will cost, where to download it, no info on the promised open beta, monthly fee prices, early access, etc.
I smell either major trouble like Dark and Light had or potential FRAUD. mmorpg.com owes it to us to demand Tasos come clean. Either give a mmorpg.com staffer access to beta to prove the game exists and will be playbable or pull the game off mmorpg.com's list of games.
I'm not a follower of darkfall, i am not a fanboi, or a hater. I'm more of a spectator.
From what i have seen, heard and followed. It seems darkfall is not a well placed game. There is not enough information too simply tell if it's not real or not. Some people claim it's real, some people don't. I know there is a release date for the EU version, that is Jan. 22. Correct me if i am wrong please. They haven't be reviewed by anyone, which makes me think. Usually developers, want a interview too show off what their game has too offer, compared too current mmorpgs on the market, and what they will bring after release. Wouldn't anyone want that, small or big, if a website/magazine requested a interview, i would surely take it, it would least get some word out.
A lot of people want too believe that this game is real, but for me, i could not care less really. I don't plan on playing it, but it's fun watching people argue over something. (That's not a flame, personal opinion). There are countless threads, from fanbois, and a lot from haters. I would say about 50/50. If they game does not come out, okay, a lot of people will be very disappointed, and lied too. If it does, yipee! There will be a bigger, better game coming out in the near future. If it comes out, it may have a huge playerbase, but in my opinion, the future will hold great things for the MMO market, but i don't believe DarkFall will be one of them.
There are a few reasons out there for gamesites and magazines holding off on the reviews. They're called Hellgate:London, Tabula Rasa, and Age of Conan. They based their reviews on what they thought was a portion of the game, then, when the whole game came out, and content, especially in AoC, was lacking, they got egg on their face. In AoC, these hyped reviews gave Funcom millions to stuff in their pockets in the first few months.
Maybe they are going to wait until the game actually comes out, before hopping on the hype machine and pushing another dog.
It's in Darkfall's interests, as well, as they have no major pressure to push out an unfinished product if they don't have reviewer hype causing fanbois to climb the walls demanding the game's release ASAP. There is enough footage out there. Be satisfied, read a book, hike, whatever. Take some Ritalin for your ADHD and relax. They've shown so far that it will be out when it's DONE.
There are a few reasons out there for gamesites and magazines holding off on the reviews. They're called Hellgate:London, Tabula Rasa, and Age of Conan. They based their reviews on what they thought was a portion of the game, then, when the whole game came out, and content, especially in AoC, was lacking, they got egg on their face. In AoC, these hyped reviews gave Funcom millions to stuff in their pockets in the first few months. [...]
Maybe I am just more cynical than you but I think many reviewing sites / magazines are nowadays simply in the pockets of developers and whim. I think they know when a game they get is incomplete or far from the version which will be released. I think many just choose to turn a bind eye in order to get a first review at a time when the word preview is more applicable.
I remember the good old PC format magazine in the UK which was a good source of information for games (were talking before 200 here !) but as the Internet became prevailant even it too turned into a lads mag with little to no criticism or intelligence in there reviews. They exist to sell "product" and are so far from enthusiast / hobbiest material I refuse to buy any computer magazine. In some ways these forums are a better indicator and thats pretty crazy give the whole fanboi / troll polarisation on here.
EDIT: I'll add the good reviews of GTA3 on the PC which is a very badly done "port" of the game form the xbox 360 version and even many high end PC stuggle to cope with the game.
I'd like to see a review just to prove this game actually exists and isnt just a scam. Its not like this hasnt happened before with other MMO's that launched with horribly incomplete games missing 75% of the features they promised.
mmorpg.com should demand a beta key so they can give us a fair evaluation before people spend good money on it
Aventurine have always believed Darkfall will speak for itself and be the only marketing they will ever need. That's why they have consistently demonstrated the game comprehensively on many occasions during its development, even more so over previous months leading up to release. I defy anyone to name a single MMO that had more information, screen shots, videos and developer updates released then Darkfall has this close to launch. You have to appreciate that Aventurine also have to protect their revolutionary next generation secrets from competitors, and they are also respecting the expressed wishes from the majority of their players base to not reveal everything about the game pre release and spoil the excitement of discovering things. Tasos has constantly reminded us that the game is feature complete, fully tested and ready for release, and confirmed the game would be released on the 22nd, so there is absolutely nothing to be worried about as far as I'm concerned. Aventurine still have ample time left to start and finish open beta and announce all the launch details the troll haters are whining about.
links to darkfall's...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
You had to visit Aventurine studios to review the game prior to press beta ..no one was willing to seems except MMORPGItalia
what press beta?
i still haven't seen anyone say "hey we have someone in the beta and they'll be doing a review".
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Granted reviews arent always honest or detailed. Age of Conan had several 9 / 10 scores from early reviews. Still its cause for concern when PC Gamer, mmorpg.com and others have had no opportunity to give the MMO community a sneak peek at the game. Darkfall hasnt been very forthcoming with information from the very beginning. And if you ask Tasos he's very deceptive. He was recently asked why it took so long for Darkfall to get to this point. His reponse was the game was just like every other MMO in that it took 5 years to develop. This is a lie as Darkfall has been in the works for over 7.5 years now. The game's first official announcement came on August 29, 2001. Yet somehow Tasos can state 5 years during an interview ? When I see dishonesty and a lack of information for 7+ years, I smell serious trouble. If a indie developer lacks the funds to properly market the game you'd think they'd want all the reviews they could get for some free marketing. Ive seen Tasos very defensive of this game. Ive seen the fans also defend this game as if it was the Holy Grail. What I havent seen is a sneak peek by anyone outside of leaked reports. What I havent seen is a box in a store with a prerelease date. Its not even posted on amazon or any other online store. There really is only one reason why they wouldnt want a prelaunch review... crossing my fingers but all signs point to someting just not right here
There's no point in having a pre-launch review, and most of them are AFTER open beta begins, and very close to release.
Also, when the project was announced, that was the first build. They scrapped it later entirely and started over in 2003. So it's about 5 years. But people count the first build (which is fine) in that development.
What dishonesty are you talking about?
And there aren't pre-orders, so there won't be any info on various e-retailer sites. It's feasible they are going to make it much like Eve Online, where at first they sell the game themselves.
except.. when eve first came out, it was in boxes, i know, i bought one.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you? your ignorant assumptions aside, try reading early DF developer quotes. it's obvious this is what they've been trying to do all along.
lol phD in SCIENCE?
So, you're like, an expert in ALL THE SCIENCES?
Are you sure you know what a phD is? Let me give you a clue - it's not just something you throw out on internet forums to make yourself seem more credible.
I think I have around 3067K worth of email offering to allow me to purchase a Master's or Ph.D. in any field. Perhaps he bought one? As for his statement that razor/avent intended to make a non-mainstream game, that is fine, but at no point did they ever state that they didn't even want subscribers. EvE is a non-mainstream game, they tout over 250K subscriptions.
Someone should also let him know he mis-read the comment he quoted from Darkfall's devs.
Boy I can't wait to get my PhD in Science. I am almost done with my current PhD in Reading.
Dr. Tran has a PhD in kicking your ass.
"He's a real doctor...
From America..."
lol classic.
Two thumbs way up for that reference :-p
As for the topic...
I was honestly coming here expecting to see *something* new by way of news. Unless it's in a thread I haven't read yet, looks like nothing's changed...
Yeesh.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
What exactly is the info that is NEEDED before release and can you explain your reasons for needing it? I can't really see any info that I need personally that can't wait until the game is available for purchase.
What exactly is the info that is NEEDED before release and can you explain your reasons for needing it? I can't really see any info that I need personally that can't wait until the game is available for purchase.
Players need that information like he said, to make an informed decision, would you buy a car from a company that barely tells you anything about it? I wouldnt, especially not from a company who is still trying to produce their first one and expects you to buy it on blind faith alone.
That was too vague, I want specifics as I have yet to see any arguement for releasing this info until the game becomes available.
Example: "I need to know ...... before release because ....... and I would not be able to do this after the game has released because ........."
That was too vague, I want specifics as I have yet to see any arguement for releasing this info until the game becomes available.
Its not vague at all, you want as many customers as you can get. How do you do that? You give them what they want. And what do they want? Information. Its as simple as that.
:palm to face:
You have got to be kidding me.
hardcore lifer to the bitter end ic.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
The only "good" reason for the lack of reviews and publicity is the developers fear lacking the infrastructure to cope with a massive demand when the game starts. I put good in quotes because if the game was really that good and groundbreaking with it marvellous technological innovations then I think some company would spot the obvious potential. Sometinhg smells funny.
So I am guessing the game is fairly medicore at best. Could be wrong but the transcript from coffee morning suggests the developers need more investors. Which means either the 22nd is a fat lie and development is continuing or money is needed for infastructure.
I'm really glad this game won "Most Anticipated'
It has brought a much needed level of common sense that I haven't seen here in a long time. People who don't normally visit here are coming in with reasonable expectations and logical views that promptly rip apart all the arguments that the Darkfall followers have been using for months and months.
Even if some of those views are shrouded in entertaining sarcasm. For a while it seemed like the whole MMORPG community was like Darkfall followers (esp after that 'most Anticipated Poll), It is so good to see that it's NOT.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
I'm guessing that it's the latter and that they are keeping it quiet so that the, "Most Anticipated Game" hype, draws sufficient numbers to pad their pockets to pay for the lack of investments.
Didn't TTH request an interview, but never got a response?
Yep.
Yep.
I love mmorpg.com...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
yeah apparently Tasos is so anti-establishment and anti-wow that he'd rather Darkfall do poorly. Better to have 10k subscribers and not be sellouts.
pfftttt
Tasos has bills to pay like everyone else does. They'd gladly accept the money if 1 million wow players signed up for Darkfall on launch day.
This anti-mainstream stance the fans and Tasos has taken is bogus. Its nothing more than excuse for a low budget game that lacks professionalism and any semblance of marketing strategy.
It costs very little money to mail some demo discs to some game magazines and gaming sites. It costs nothing to release videos on ytube and to game sites showing more than just a grainy edited raid. It costs nothing to sit down for an interview or let a reporter on-site to get a peek at the game.
course the darkfall fans say its a conspiracy by the gaming media. That Darkfall is being ignored because their too small to be noticed.
Darkfall isnt being ignored. Its just refusing to show anything
a box in a store tells me the game isnt vaporware.
Yes even now I still think vaporware is a possibility. All we have seen to date is a grainy edited video to prove the game exists. Rumors of 200 of Tasos' relatives playing beta. And some screenshots. Not that screenies mean anything, we had screenshots of Star Trek Online by Perpetual Entertainment and they admitedly didnt do anything beyond conceptual artwork before crashing and burning.
9 days from launch and nothing yet on how much the game will cost, where to download it, no info on the promised open beta, monthly fee prices, early access, etc.
I smell either major trouble like Dark and Light had or potential FRAUD. mmorpg.com owes it to us to demand Tasos come clean. Either give a mmorpg.com staffer access to beta to prove the game exists and will be playbable or pull the game off mmorpg.com's list of games.
I'm not a follower of darkfall, i am not a fanboi, or a hater. I'm more of a spectator.
From what i have seen, heard and followed. It seems darkfall is not a well placed game. There is not enough information too simply tell if it's not real or not. Some people claim it's real, some people don't. I know there is a release date for the EU version, that is Jan. 22. Correct me if i am wrong please. They haven't be reviewed by anyone, which makes me think. Usually developers, want a interview too show off what their game has too offer, compared too current mmorpgs on the market, and what they will bring after release. Wouldn't anyone want that, small or big, if a website/magazine requested a interview, i would surely take it, it would least get some word out.
A lot of people want too believe that this game is real, but for me, i could not care less really. I don't plan on playing it, but it's fun watching people argue over something. (That's not a flame, personal opinion). There are countless threads, from fanbois, and a lot from haters. I would say about 50/50. If they game does not come out, okay, a lot of people will be very disappointed, and lied too. If it does, yipee! There will be a bigger, better game coming out in the near future. If it comes out, it may have a huge playerbase, but in my opinion, the future will hold great things for the MMO market, but i don't believe DarkFall will be one of them.
-3Tears A.k.a ThriceShy
Tempus Vincit Omnia
There are a few reasons out there for gamesites and magazines holding off on the reviews. They're called Hellgate:London, Tabula Rasa, and Age of Conan. They based their reviews on what they thought was a portion of the game, then, when the whole game came out, and content, especially in AoC, was lacking, they got egg on their face. In AoC, these hyped reviews gave Funcom millions to stuff in their pockets in the first few months.
Maybe they are going to wait until the game actually comes out, before hopping on the hype machine and pushing another dog.
It's in Darkfall's interests, as well, as they have no major pressure to push out an unfinished product if they don't have reviewer hype causing fanbois to climb the walls demanding the game's release ASAP. There is enough footage out there. Be satisfied, read a book, hike, whatever. Take some Ritalin for your ADHD and relax. They've shown so far that it will be out when it's DONE.
Maybe I am just more cynical than you but I think many reviewing sites / magazines are nowadays simply in the pockets of developers and whim. I think they know when a game they get is incomplete or far from the version which will be released. I think many just choose to turn a bind eye in order to get a first review at a time when the word preview is more applicable.
I remember the good old PC format magazine in the UK which was a good source of information for games (were talking before 200 here !) but as the Internet became prevailant even it too turned into a lads mag with little to no criticism or intelligence in there reviews. They exist to sell "product" and are so far from enthusiast / hobbiest material I refuse to buy any computer magazine. In some ways these forums are a better indicator and thats pretty crazy give the whole fanboi / troll polarisation on here.
EDIT: I'll add the good reviews of GTA3 on the PC which is a very badly done "port" of the game form the xbox 360 version and even many high end PC stuggle to cope with the game.
I'd like to see a review just to prove this game actually exists and isnt just a scam. Its not like this hasnt happened before with other MMO's that launched with horribly incomplete games missing 75% of the features they promised.
mmorpg.com should demand a beta key so they can give us a fair evaluation before people spend good money on it
Just checking in on my favorite thread! Any updates on the border dispute?
_____________________________
At the turn of the century...
In 2008...
Cracked.com voted Roosevelt as the most badass President of all time.
This is his story....
links to darkfall's...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
what press beta?
i still haven't seen anyone say "hey we have someone in the beta and they'll be doing a review".
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
There's no point in having a pre-launch review, and most of them are AFTER open beta begins, and very close to release.
Also, when the project was announced, that was the first build. They scrapped it later entirely and started over in 2003. So it's about 5 years. But people count the first build (which is fine) in that development.
What dishonesty are you talking about?
And there aren't pre-orders, so there won't be any info on various e-retailer sites. It's feasible they are going to make it much like Eve Online, where at first they sell the game themselves.
except.. when eve first came out, it was in boxes, i know, i bought one.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
lol phD in SCIENCE?
So, you're like, an expert in ALL THE SCIENCES?
Are you sure you know what a phD is? Let me give you a clue - it's not just something you throw out on internet forums to make yourself seem more credible.
I think I have around 3067K worth of email offering to allow me to purchase a Master's or Ph.D. in any field. Perhaps he bought one? As for his statement that razor/avent intended to make a non-mainstream game, that is fine, but at no point did they ever state that they didn't even want subscribers. EvE is a non-mainstream game, they tout over 250K subscriptions.
Someone should also let him know he mis-read the comment he quoted from Darkfall's devs.
Boy I can't wait to get my PhD in Science. I am almost done with my current PhD in Reading.
Dr. Tran has a PhD in kicking your ass.
"He's a real doctor...
From America..."
lol classic.
Two thumbs way up for that reference :-p
As for the topic...
I was honestly coming here expecting to see *something* new by way of news. Unless it's in a thread I haven't read yet, looks like nothing's changed...
Yeesh.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
yep