Do you really think there even is a beta test? NDAs get broken.. fast. And no company has the time, resources or motivation to hunt down whats most likely a 16 year old. If a company like Microsoft dosen't pursue the people who leak out their software (Windows 7 before it went public) what makes you think Aventurine is somehow keeping the "testers" quiet. The chances are that theres about five testers and/or disgruntled employees who have leaked the few amounts of information available.
Their are tons of leaks already. Go google Darkfall leaks, and go to the leak blog.
NDA 1 month before release = garbage. For those of you who's identities and self-esteem are so wrapped up in a product you've never player and will undoubtedly call me a "troll", "hater" or "paid poster from a competing company", name one decent game that's had a NDA 1 month prior to release. Just do that. No personal attacks, no stupid ad-hominem attacks. Just name 1 good game that's had a NDA still in effect 1 month prior to release. I would love for Darkfall to be the greatest thing ever. I really would, but I'm able to seperate my personal desires from my objectivity and can clearly see what history has shown us.
Regarding the NDA thing, I think a lot more companies are shoving silly or otherwise unenforceable clauses into them, in hopes of scaring people into compliance. See also: The ToS and EULA of games out now and games to be released soon.
They've been bolstered by certain victories in court such as Blizzard versus BNETD and whatever Mythic did v some gold sellers. Some things work, others simply wouldn't hold up. But I suppose the fact that we're even talking about it, and the low number of leaks, does mean that it is working.
But I suppose the fact that we're even talking about it, and the low number of leaks, does mean that it is working.
I have an alternate theory. The low number of leaks could be attributed to there being a low number of testers, mostly close friends and family that have been permitted entry.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by MortisRex Just name 1 good game that's had a NDA still in effect 1 month prior to release.
I can't name one good game period at the moment.
Some that used to be good. PotBS didn't lift its NDA until about a week, maybe a week and a half before "pre-launch". Wasn't Galaxies in NDA up until practically the last day?
Originally posted by MortisRex Just name 1 good game that's had a NDA still in effect 1 month prior to release.
I can't name one good game period at the moment.
Some that used to be good. PotBS didn't lift its NDA until about a week, maybe a week and a half before "pre-launch". Wasn't Galaxies in NDA up until practically the last day?
SWG's NDA was lifted on June 20th, 2003
SWG Release was June 26th, 2003
I played and enjoyed SWG... but I would say the NDA was used to cover up the obvious need for it to be in Beta another 6 months.
There were many bugs and balance issues that had they stayed in development and Beta tested another 6 months... the CU and ultimately the NGE... MIGHT have been avoided.
I wouldn't wish an NGE type of experience on any other MMO fan.
SWG from release up until the CU was the best MMO I've played, so we can talk about "need" to be in beta all we want, all games release with major bugs and balance issues.
SWG from release up until the CU was the best MMO I've played, so we can talk about "need" to be in beta all we want, all games release with major bugs and balance issues.
Well... not ALL games release with MAJOR bugs...
I agree with having quite a bit of fun in SWG up to the CU. The problem is that the short-term fun was sacrificed for the long-term health of game. I'd have gladly given up that time I enjoyed it to stave off the CU and NGE... that was the point.
EVERY game that has kept the NDA up close to Release is hiding problems in the game. Some games never recover from it. Some games never reach their true potential. Some games die way too young.
The point is that when the NDA is kept up for this long... it's ALWAYS bad.
They have investors in order to make the game and get it out the door. There's a whole legal load of stuff that comes with that, including the controlling of information. When you're invested in something you don't want bad press leaking and doing the word of mouth rounds because it will cost you money. Just as the worlds markets can instantly be affected by what airs on the news in the world.
So you say they don't want bad press because that will kill the game ??? WTF. Are you telling me they have no faith in the game ??? They must believe it sucks if they think it can't stand up to the press or critics.
CB with NDA, Controlled OB with NDA.
So tell me this after 2 weeks of OB stress testing will they kick these people out, do a wipe then allow the pre-order peeps in to get there so called head start How stupid does that sound
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
you should know that not all are under NDA, like the author of the noob comic. Have a look at the preview of Dark Fall there:beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/intro.html I come to think that most of you are just work up steam on what others write here, and in the end noody really knows anything... Have fun reading it...
Jeeeeez , what a great idea "let's ask a person that makes money of them ,she will have an objective view of things and no reason to lie", her site is only co-hosted with Aventurine's and as far i can tell is on the same server. Maybe she wasn't under NDA but i bet she went through the "Tasos filter" which makes it pretty much the same......
So what's next? Ask the families of the devs whether or not Aventurine is good company and their sons and daughters good at their jobs???Use your head man ,don't take anything they throw you for granted......
you should know that not all are under NDA, like the author of the noob comic. Have a look at the preview of Dark Fall there:beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/intro.html I come to think that most of you are just work up steam on what others write here, and in the end noody really knows anything... Have fun reading it...
Dude, that girl from Noobcomic is practically family to Tasos.
Hence, that website is hosted on the exact same server as their website/forums. The reason it was down together with their offcial website / forums yesterday.
The same can be said about that Betaleaks blog site. It's all orchestrated restricted information. I wouldn't be even suprised if that blogsite is in hands of a close relative to them as well.
Hence, almost all the stuff that is posted on that betaleaks blogsite are official screens released by Tasos himself over the past years (you can even see the official Darkfall / company logo in most of the so called leaked screens LMAO).
This NDA is a farce. And every sane person knows it.
I have played and beta tested games for more then 12 years and MMO's for almost 8 years.
I have seen so many Beta tests and participated in so many myself.
All of them had plenty of leaks, regardless of NDA's or not!
This whole situation around Aventurine, Darkfall and their NDA smells big time.
But it doesn't matter anyway. The truth will come out sooner then later. Then we will see.
This is a so called beta leak. notice the watermark on the bottom left. Its not a leak, it was put out by them.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I thought the NDA existed so that people don't steal the core ideas implemented into the game, IE the combat system or housing system involved. But having an NDA when the game is supposedly being released in a month seems to me like they are more or less hiding problems with the game. Dealing with Aventurine is like dealing with the government, they choose there words so carefully with ever update they have. Lift the NDA and let us know if we are wasting our time waiting for this game, or if it will actually be ready. I would be upset to hear this game needs another 6 months or so to be completed, but don't keep people in anticipation, because that is the root for most of the anger that you see on the forums.
LIFT THE NDA and give the people the air Tsaos.
No one would buy the game at all if they were allowed free riegn to say how bad it was and give examples.
cmon guys.. nda till the release = more hype = more pre orders = more cash, so why lift the nda if you can make more money with it up? aventurine is not the first comapny doing it and wont be the last.
You people are crazy. Evidence isn't evidence because the person doing the writing "might" be associated with the developer, or is a company with a business agreement with the developer. Sure, the video is faked, sure, the leaks are faked, sure, the download screenshots are faked, sure, the press releases from the other companies involved are all fake (despite them being companies that sell products that aren't Darkfall). You, of course, have no real reason to believe any of this is fake, other than the fact that they said something about Darkfall. Basically, as far as you guys are concerned, nothing can be trusted unless it trashes the game, because that's the only way you can be reasonably sure it didn't come from a friend of a dev?
Do you really go through life this paranoid? Do you really think people set up an 8 year scam to get 50 bucks out of you? Even if they scammed 5,000 people for 50 dollars and produced absolutely nothing at all - that's only $250k - about $32,000/year. I don't know what the median income is in Greece, but in the US, that's well below it. People who have the necessary skills to produce such a deception can pretty easily make 4 or 5 times that working in sales or marketing and not have to worry about any legal issues.
You people are crazy. Evidence isn't evidence because the person doing the writing "might" be associated with the developer, or is a company with a business agreement with the developer. Sure, the video is faked, sure, the leaks are faked, sure, the download screenshots are faked, sure, the press releases from the other companies involved are all fake (despite them being companies that sell products that aren't Darkfall). You, of course, have no real reason to believe any of this is fake, other than the fact that they said something about Darkfall. Basically, as far as you guys are concerned, nothing can be trusted unless it trashes the game, because that's the only way you can be reasonably sure it didn't come from a friend of a dev?
Do you really go through life this paranoid? Do you really think people set up an 8 year scam to get 50 bucks out of you? Even if they scammed 5,000 people for 50 dollars and produced absolutely nothing at all - that's only $250k - about $32,000/year. I don't know what the median income is in Greece, but in the US, that's well below it. People who have the necessary skills to produce such a deception can pretty easily make 4 or 5 times that working in sales or marketing and not have to worry about any legal issues.
One thing you are forgetting is that many people are not merely pointing out the possibility of being scammed fifty dollars. At this point most people would never pre order IN FULL.
Having said that, it's possible the company is going for investors in the millions of dollars over the years, which in that case, yes a few years time would pay off nicely -- well ABOVE the median income for most countries.
Comments
Their are tons of leaks already. Go google Darkfall leaks, and go to the leak blog.
NDA 1 month before release = garbage. For those of you who's identities and self-esteem are so wrapped up in a product you've never player and will undoubtedly call me a "troll", "hater" or "paid poster from a competing company", name one decent game that's had a NDA 1 month prior to release. Just do that. No personal attacks, no stupid ad-hominem attacks. Just name 1 good game that's had a NDA still in effect 1 month prior to release. I would love for Darkfall to be the greatest thing ever. I really would, but I'm able to seperate my personal desires from my objectivity and can clearly see what history has shown us.
They are hiding the state of the game. It is that simple.
Regarding the NDA thing, I think a lot more companies are shoving silly or otherwise unenforceable clauses into them, in hopes of scaring people into compliance. See also: The ToS and EULA of games out now and games to be released soon.
They've been bolstered by certain victories in court such as Blizzard versus BNETD and whatever Mythic did v some gold sellers. Some things work, others simply wouldn't hold up. But I suppose the fact that we're even talking about it, and the low number of leaks, does mean that it is working.
I have an alternate theory. The low number of leaks could be attributed to there being a low number of testers, mostly close friends and family that have been permitted entry.
People willing to "toe the line" so to speak.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can't name one good game period at the moment.
Some that used to be good. PotBS didn't lift its NDA until about a week, maybe a week and a half before "pre-launch". Wasn't Galaxies in NDA up until practically the last day?
I can't name one good game period at the moment.
Some that used to be good. PotBS didn't lift its NDA until about a week, maybe a week and a half before "pre-launch". Wasn't Galaxies in NDA up until practically the last day?
SWG's NDA was lifted on June 20th, 2003
SWG Release was June 26th, 2003
I played and enjoyed SWG... but I would say the NDA was used to cover up the obvious need for it to be in Beta another 6 months.
There were many bugs and balance issues that had they stayed in development and Beta tested another 6 months... the CU and ultimately the NGE... MIGHT have been avoided.
I wouldn't wish an NGE type of experience on any other MMO fan.
SWG from release up until the CU was the best MMO I've played, so we can talk about "need" to be in beta all we want, all games release with major bugs and balance issues.
Just makes me wait 6 months until it opens to want to get a copy, assuming there is a game.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Well... not ALL games release with MAJOR bugs...
I agree with having quite a bit of fun in SWG up to the CU. The problem is that the short-term fun was sacrificed for the long-term health of game. I'd have gladly given up that time I enjoyed it to stave off the CU and NGE... that was the point.
EVERY game that has kept the NDA up close to Release is hiding problems in the game. Some games never recover from it. Some games never reach their true potential. Some games die way too young.
The point is that when the NDA is kept up for this long... it's ALWAYS bad.
The ONLY reason to maintain the NDA is to hide the conidtion of the game. That's it and that's all. WTF is an open beta with an NDA? What a joke.
They have investors in order to make the game and get it out the door. There's a whole legal load of stuff that comes with that, including the controlling of information. When you're invested in something you don't want bad press leaking and doing the word of mouth rounds because it will cost you money. Just as the worlds markets can instantly be affected by what airs on the news in the world.
you should know that not all are under NDA, like the author of the noob comic. Have a look at the preview of Dark Fall there:beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/intro.html
I come to think that most of you are just work up steam on what others write here, and in the end noody really knows anything...
Have fun reading it...
Silly toolbags.
So you say they don't want bad press because that will kill the game ??? WTF. Are you telling me they have no faith in the game ??? They must believe it sucks if they think it can't stand up to the press or critics.
CB with NDA, Controlled OB with NDA.
So tell me this after 2 weeks of OB stress testing will they kick these people out, do a wipe then allow the pre-order peeps in to get there so called head start
How stupid does that sound 
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
They are giving themselves bad press by keeping the NDA.
Jeeeeez , what a great idea "let's ask a person that makes money of them ,she will have an objective view of things and no reason to lie"
, her site is only co-hosted with Aventurine's and as far i can tell is on the same server. Maybe she wasn't under NDA but i bet she went through the "Tasos filter" which makes it pretty much the same......
So what's next? Ask the families of the devs whether or not Aventurine is good company and their sons and daughters good at their jobs???Use your head man ,don't take anything they throw you for granted......
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Dude, that girl from Noobcomic is practically family to Tasos.
Hence, that website is hosted on the exact same server as their website/forums. The reason it was down together with their offcial website / forums yesterday.
The same can be said about that Betaleaks blog site. It's all orchestrated restricted information. I wouldn't be even suprised if that blogsite is in hands of a close relative to them as well.
Hence, almost all the stuff that is posted on that betaleaks blogsite are official screens released by Tasos himself over the past years (you can even see the official Darkfall / company logo in most of the so called leaked screens LMAO).
This NDA is a farce. And every sane person knows it.
I have played and beta tested games for more then 12 years and MMO's for almost 8 years.
I have seen so many Beta tests and participated in so many myself.
All of them had plenty of leaks, regardless of NDA's or not!
This whole situation around Aventurine, Darkfall and their NDA smells big time.
But it doesn't matter anyway. The truth will come out sooner then later. Then we will see.
Cheers
This is a so called beta leak. notice the watermark on the bottom left. Its not a leak, it was put out by them.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
No one would buy the game at all if they were allowed free riegn to say how bad it was and give examples.
cmon guys.. nda till the release = more hype = more pre orders = more cash, so why lift the nda if you can make more money with it up? aventurine is not the first comapny doing it and wont be the last.
We can make sure they are the last
by not placing Pre-Orders indeed!
You people are crazy. Evidence isn't evidence because the person doing the writing "might" be associated with the developer, or is a company with a business agreement with the developer. Sure, the video is faked, sure, the leaks are faked, sure, the download screenshots are faked, sure, the press releases from the other companies involved are all fake (despite them being companies that sell products that aren't Darkfall). You, of course, have no real reason to believe any of this is fake, other than the fact that they said something about Darkfall. Basically, as far as you guys are concerned, nothing can be trusted unless it trashes the game, because that's the only way you can be reasonably sure it didn't come from a friend of a dev?
Do you really go through life this paranoid? Do you really think people set up an 8 year scam to get 50 bucks out of you? Even if they scammed 5,000 people for 50 dollars and produced absolutely nothing at all - that's only $250k - about $32,000/year. I don't know what the median income is in Greece, but in the US, that's well below it. People who have the necessary skills to produce such a deception can pretty easily make 4 or 5 times that working in sales or marketing and not have to worry about any legal issues.
One thing you are forgetting is that many people are not merely pointing out the possibility of being scammed fifty dollars. At this point most people would never pre order IN FULL.
Having said that, it's possible the company is going for investors in the millions of dollars over the years, which in that case, yes a few years time would pay off nicely -- well ABOVE the median income for most countries.