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Fan vs. Hater
Fan, "I like the idea of open-pvp. Sounds like alot of fun!"
Hater, "No, open-pvp sucks because of ganks. You're wrong in liking that and shame on you!" 
Fan, "It's cool to see that the game can handle around 35 people in battle and also that zerg doesn'tnecessarily mean win!"
Hater, "I'm not impressed. And zerg should always win because I think real skill shouldn't be ingame!"
Fan, "Nice. People seem to like Darkfall, even in beta, and a poll shows that 90% of those who voted want to pre-order the game!"
Hater, "That poll is illegitmate because it's done on the official 'beta' forums and the NDA is obviously being used to hide some nefarious conspiracy plot to MAKE ME pre-order!"
Hater, "Even though I've never played the game I know that Tasos is lying and that the game is garbage because other games in the past have failed!"
Hater, "I know everything there is to know about the entire financial history of Darkfall! Their delay proves they are broke and their game is crap!"
Fan, "Well AoC, Warhammer and Lord of the Rings all had their delay too."
Hater, "Yes, but since I know everything there is to know, I know that Darkfall is different."
Fan, "I hear people talking about delaying, instead of releasing something that has some major bugs that might cause the game to fail, because it'd be better overall."
Hater, "That only applies to companies like Turbine, SOE, Mythic and so forth. We have to hold smaller developers to higher standards!"
Fan, "Well, you are entitled to your opinions and I'll continue to hope for a game that sounds fun to me. Besides, it's something different on the market from the same casual, hand me everything games out there."
Hater, "But you are wrong in liking this game. Why would you want something dynamic, that requires real skills, thinking and use of environment when you have Lord of the Rings and World of Warcraft! Plus, AoC and WAR bring more of the same as well! You're delusional in thinking that a open-pvp game, that doesn't have levels, would be fun!"
Do you people see where this is going? How ridiculously stupid some of the things you haters say towards fans? Sure, the fans have some blind faith and make some ignorant claims but jesus this is a game they like, are following, and want to play.
How many of these fans do you go around beating to death who began beating you to death in your own game? Seriously, think about it. What wrong did they do to you by liking the idea behind this game, having faith in this game, and following this game defending it from some of the truly stupid and disrespectful words and blown out of proportion comments towards Darkfall?
I'm serious, and this is coming from someone who is skeptical, that 90% of the crap I see haters post about Darkfall is blown out of proportion, misleading, or flat out wrong. They claim they are trying to warn people so another Dark and Light doesn't happen and yet they haven't even played the game.
They dismiss all good beta reviews/leaks with fanboism and cling faithfully, and just as blindly as a fanboi, to beta leaks that are negative about the game.
You know, I've seen this mentality develop over the years. It's the mentality of creating drama around a release to entertain themselves. They enjoy, moreso than actual playing, to come into game forums to create drama by taking dev words out of context, blowing things out of proportion, simply misleading or flat out lying.
Even now, as I watch the haters bash Darkfall, Aventurine and Tasos, I see huge amounts of worthless crap being spewed as if it's empirical facts.
To end this I want to say there is nothing wrong with constructive criticsm. Saying something like, "I don't think open-pvp will work. I don't see how they can implement it without a gankfest" is far more constructive and lends to a good debate moreso than "open-pvp sucks, gankfests suck and you suck for wanting that."
splat
Comments
Stopped reading at the fifth sentence. Show me a link that say 90% of the players want to pre-order.
I am sorry but just show a link here, all the poll say almost no one will preorder...
Check out The Noob's Darkfall review Part 8.
splat
So you call THIS "constructive criticism"? You make up all sorts of ridiculous, imaginary statements and say that is exactly what people having a problem with how Darkfall is handled act and think? You know.... the "hater" part. That is you. Pure troll, and nothing else. At LEAST try to have ONE fact in your imaginary spin.... Darkfall fans really need to be squished as soon as they show their ugly head, because they are now so full of imaginary tales and imaginary marketing pitches, they have lost all contact with the real world. You are a troll pure and simple. I am neutral to Darkfall.
{ Mod Edit }
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Oh, you mean Tasos review as dictated to Gianna?
he he, i really liked that OP.
The haters wont use reason or fact here. and they know it.
You are welcome to determine where in my response I did not use reason... however, I do not hate the game so you have an out even thougyh I completely disagree with the OP.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
You want reason and fact, but you consider TheBoob as a reputable source of 'reviews"?
Contradict much?
It would have been less "sensationalistic" to call it Pro vs. Con instead of "Fan vs. Hater" as in the latter both labels tend to have negative conotations associated with them.
so you basically just stupified things to fit your own views.
me "I like the idea of how darkfall is intended to work and so on, but I'm not going to preorder or worship the game before I've had atleast some decent amount of time to play and try it for myself"
fan "yeah whatever conspiracy theorist, go back to wow since you apparently arent meant to play anything revolutionary, awesome looking and something that actually requires skill ! what? no I havent played it but geez cant you read? If its written then it must be true. oh and dont call me a fanboi because I'm not, I just know when I see pure quality being made and willing to pay for it"
I havent bothered to reply to many darkfall threads because I find it a waste of time to reply to most of them, the game will probably be liked by some and by some it wont. Though first is to see if it can even live up to its overhype, wich I truly truly doubt. Though atleast I hope it can to alot of it and be a fun different kind of mmo.
I dont get whats up with all the agression around this game, but I have no doubt its both partys fault as some just talk krap about the game for different reasons that arent so valid, mainly just to annoy the ones who actually are hopefull about it. Though they can be as bad as I see alot of times that alot of them dont seem to be able and handle criticism or a point of view that doesnt concur with theirs.
All in all... your post fails op. Way to be biased one way and make one side sound like a retard, when there is alot of people on both sides making valid intelligent posts and simply most of the time simply expressing their personal point of view on the game.
atziluth,
The problem with your response to my original post is it's riddled with "They owe us" comments and suggestions. Handling of community was wrong? Their game is under NDA, they release the information THEY want about THEIR game THEY are developing.
Now, if you don't have any money investments into this game they owe you nothing, nill, nadda just like they owe everyone else who has no money invested into this game nothing, nill, nadda. That is your problem and the problem of all other haters you think they owe you something.
Furthermore, you guys think Tasos should jump when you say jump, speak when you say speak, and give out information you want, when you want it and how you want. I've seen him do this in the past several times only to see people spin the crap out of proportion, out of context, or flat out lie about what he really said.
It's ridiculous the tactics I've been seeing haters pull. I mean they go even as far as calling someone they perceive as 'trolling' wrong because in their mind that person 'supposedly' trolling is trolling 'trolls'! Let's say for a moment I was trolling the trolls why is it that that is so horrendous when the trolls themselves are trolls?
The truth is. Right or wrong about the actual 'game', what is wrong is haters who like to bash DF fans who post something positive, provide a constructive topic and then when those people make good arguments they proceed to dismiss their argument and resort to some other tactic:
"Oh... well the graphics are dated...."
"Well the game has been in development for eight years..."
"OH they have some publisher by the name of AudioVisual..."
"Oh, well since Tasos doesn't come running when I want to know something he is obviously hiding things..."
"Oh, well since I'm not in closed-beta this is obviously another Dark and Light scam..."
It's ridiculous.
splat
The post referencing a poll review off 300 odd people from the Beta forums was available to the MMO market prior to the Noob Preview 8 being released. It showed the same results as that referenced in the Noob.
It's been referenced before by posters with some bad things to say about the game. Is it just another poll yes but before you start foaming at the mouth try and use google.
Obviously, you miss the context of what my OP was about. Reread it and think about it then maybe you might get it.
splat
You are welcome to determine where in my response I did not use reason... however, I do not hate the game so you have an out even thougyh I completely disagree with the OP.
Well said atziluth.
And, @ daarco... perhaps your statement "haters won't use reason or fact here." is more a mirror for itself than it is for your intended target "The haters" as you put it.
Many of use Darkfall posters who are interested in this game, from what I've read in many past DF post/threads, most are not fanbois as they are often mistaken for. Most to me seem be be of a skeptical kind, and will wait to see what the results are when the game is indeed released.
As for the OP, to me it seems obvious his/her intent was to create a flame thread, as his initial header for his thread, "Fan vs. Hater" wich the choice of the wording was of poor judgment to objectivity or a purposeful attempt to generate flames, and if the latter shows proof of this.
Here, those who stay on the fence, with just a dash of optimisim, are the true victims of hate.
All the poll's say almost no one will preorder? Really where is this? Don't say here on this forum or you are no better than the guy posting using "The Noob" as his source.
Their is an 'actual' screenshot of the poll in the Noob review. So, according to that poll meant for people who are currently in an NDA "CLOSED-BETA" that 90% of those participating in the poll are stating that they intend to pre-order.
What I'm alluding to here is the fact that the haters are bashing this poll, resorting to a conspiracy theorist syndrome, and ultimately dismissing it because it happens to be an NDA based, 'closed-beta' poll. That is just as ridiculous as a fan claiming that that accurately reflects the entire MMO gamer populace.
splat
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
The majority of posts in the Darkfall section are just skeptics trying to "educate" fanatics in their own special way. Darkfall fans rarely even discuss much of the previously heated topics because skeptics are just too stubborn to ever concede and any perceived victories for the fans are just another battle waiting to happen. It's so funny that "the Darkfall community" has such a bad reputation considering they almost never post. I'm almost convinced at this point that it's mainly just skeptics making nonsensical posts, posing as fanatics while other skeptics berate them with "logic."
Then there's people like "daarco" who come in, make a 2-3 sentence reply and literally anti-troll rape all of the skeptics. It's funny seeing people turn so childish and defensive over one reply.
I'm not on any side of the fence. It's just funny considering how bad skeptics and trolls look from the outside for someone who is not emotionally invested in this game.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
heh, i see it opposite of you.
i see zealols, blind for everything, but what they are told of Tasos.
All the poll's say almost no one will preorder? Really where is this? Don't say here on this forum or you are no better than the guy posting using "The Noob" as his source.
There is a lot more diversity here then there. Anyway, a poll is just a way to know what people think and even if you don't like it, when I was waiting for warhammer most poll were accurate on this site. Yea, you hear the naysayer and fanboy going at it but they are the vocal minority. I give everyone credit until they prove me wrong.
I don't really care if you think i am no better then he is, I don't even care about the game since i am from NA. But I know everything is not all black or all white, unlike a lot of fans and trolls.
We could also say polls here are jaded since mmorpg.com is a US based site and when asked if you will preorder the obvious answer is no, its not even gonna release here. Then you can argue that a fan dedicated site is no good for polls since obviously they all want to preorder it.
Overall, you can only trust poll if you know how to interpret* them.
*Yea I speak french so dont drop the spelling bomb on me. I am also at work and took a few break typing this so I lost track of what I type..
atziluth,
I'm going to only respond to your last comment. The rest of your comments revolve around bait and switch tactics, taking things out of context, and distortions of what I said or you said. Hopefully the following will help you better understand:
I agree. There are people who attack those who critize the game. But if you read my post and thought about it before jumping to conclusions, this isn't about valid critics. I agree with the following:
1. It is suspicious that they are now offering an open-beta that is really a closed beta. To top it off they have now went with pre-orders and from the looks of things you might not be able to test the game before then.
2. There is no definitive proof that they received any big enough investment to bring their original vision and promised ideas to market. However, there was no definitive proof that Turbine did either when they claimed they got like $10 million then another $22ish million to develop D&DO and LoTRO.
3. Some of the ideas and planned features that we know about with Darkfall make you wonder if they are really possible as described. Knowing MMO technology, some of the ideas, will be extremely difficult or probably impossible to implement as is.
The whole point to my post is the haters/trolls who bash fans, dismiss their evidence, and call them blind followers are plain ridiculous. Furthermore, it alludes to the fact that I can plainly see some people are obviously trying to stir up drama for their own entertainment. They want another Dark and Light so they can sit here, hours on end, with smut and garbage to entertain themselves; sorta like Enquirer magazines.
splat
Meh, I contradicted myself.. i knew it.
It's like watching a grown men take candy away from a crying baby (that's you, OP) and the baby can do nothing but fling their soiled diapers in all directions.
I don't know how you do it Atziluth, but you make it seem so easy. I could never be bothered to waste time with people who spew biased, illogical tripe and yet still delude themselves to think that they're the voice of reason or something.
Fans vs haters should be more like fool vs idiot because the info is lacking and if either side can make a judgement off that then they need to be catergorize as idiots or fools. The only people that make sense are the rational skeptics and they always get thrown into the hater category so keep wasting your time arguing about a game and if it doesn't get released what will you do...
I snickered.......But now I want to eat a Snickers *TM
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It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off.
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Originally posted by atziluth...
Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.