They changed countries. They changed the name on the company letterhead. They did NOT change the game they were working on, which has always been Darkfall, since 2001.
What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
Sorry Lidane, there is nothing we can do. While we were not looking, someone replaced the tinfoil hats on the fanbois with titanium hats. We are all doomed.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
They changed countries. They changed the name on the company letterhead. They did NOT change the game they were working on, which has always been Darkfall, since 2001.
What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
Oh boy here we go again.
The game, Darkfall, a basement project of 4 people in Norway, under Razorwax, is a far far different game than the one being released now. Everything about the game was stripped down and redone.
When you have a group of 4 people in 2001, vs a full fledged, full time company, with 30 new people, new money, new tech, new equipment, you don't keep around the same basement net code you made with your buddies in 2001. The basic idea was the same, but the game was completely restarted.
Don't believe me? Look at the Darkfall press release, it says it has been in development since 2003.
I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much? I do. Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets. How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?
So its okay for the SOE trolls to hound every forums and it's okay for the Eve fans to hound every forum and its okay for every other group to do what they want except for the DarkFall fans.
Stop making excuses and admit a troll is a troll because they choose to troll. hype/dehype happens with every new release, don't act like it is anything new.
The only way your excuses make sense is if you are saying that people troll because they resent other people's happiness in which case that makes you a very very sick person.
Darkfall trolls are almost as delusional as SOE trolls. They are so influenced by the other trolls around them they are ready to believe any crap that gets spewed out.
lol SOE trolls do not go troll about SOE where SOE has nothing to do with a game, unlike the DF fans, they will go to other game boards and troll them calling it carebear and theampark game. How many SOE trolls are here in the DF board? Now if SOE bought adventurine then ya the SOE trolls would be here. Just go to a high hyped forum like Aion and you will see thats there is DF fans there promoting DF while trolling Aion. As for Eve I cant say that I have ever seen more than a handfull of Eve trolls outside of the eve board. I have seen a couple here in the DF section telling us how eve will be better than DF but still they are small in numbers. DF fans bring "trolls" in because they are trolling OTHER game forums. I cant even count how many times I have seen the words korean grinder, carebear, and theampark in the Aion board, and within the same post DF is mentioned or its in the OP's sig or quote line.
EDIT: furthermore I am not an EVE fan, nor hav I ever been to its board but I bet you a 100$ that I could go there and find a DF fan trolling the EVE boards.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
The basic idea was the same, but the game was completely restarted.
So by your own admission, it's still the same game that it has been since 2001, even if the code is updated, or a new coat of paint is slapped on it? Good. Glad we got that settled.
Don't believe me? Look at Valve-- they started Team Fortress 2 back in 1998, but it wasn't released until 2007. It was delayed multiple times and even called vaporware in the press. The code was redone as tech improved. The whole art style changed. Guess what? It's still the same game despite all those changes.
The basic idea was the same, but the game was completely restarted.
So by your own admission, it's still the same game that it has been since 2001, even if the code is updated, or a new coat of paint is slapped on it? Good. Glad we got that settled.
Don't believe me? Look at Valve-- they started Team Fortress 2 back in 1998, but it wasn't released until 2007. It was delayed multiple times and even called vaporware in the press. The code was redone as tech improved. The whole art style changed. Guess what? It's still the same game despite all those changes.
Hey now, watch the use of VAPORWARE around these forums. I've gotten so sick of having to teach the fanbois what vaporware means that I finally gave up and made it my signature. Trust me when I say no other word on the forums brings out the tinfoil hats faster than the V word.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
The game does exist. Is it amazing? no. Combat is a boring 1-3 click-fest, the ui is clunky, and harvesting is another level of tedious grind. Skills are not cleverly designed at all. Fighting skills replicate each other. Magic skills are simply one against the other. For example, one skill line buffs and one line debuffs, i.e. paladin vs dark knight. Melee combat is incredibly easy and might as well be a targeting system, as you will never miss unless lag occurs. Archery is actually done well and feels like an fps. Magic is quite slow and easy to dodge. The world lacks all sort of detail, reminiscent of asheron's call - i.e. lots of space, not too diverse on mob types, and circle portals as dungeons.The giant ocean feels like a giant lake, with nothing in it. Doors in the game do not work. Quests equate 'kill 4 mobs of x type, and collect gold." There are no other types of quests in the game. Different environments do not provide different surface mechanics - i.e. ice does not equal slippery. Everquest had a lot more detail. It's dissipointing to think certain game genre's haven't progressed in ten years. There has already been an issue with those in Tasos's guild - i.e. Kill Cult - gaining admin priviledges and speedhacking, griefing cities that took some people weeks to build. There is no end-game. The end-game is depending on community politics and wars. Rinse and repeat. As far as bugs go...won't even go there. Lets just say there are still bugs being fixed where one player can crash the whole sever. Everything seems very half-assed in comparison to competition. The open pvp is nice, but what's open pvp without a fun combat system. All that aside, i'm all for supporting a small developer. However, usually small developers offer something a bit more unique. It feels like a lot of what they wanted was cut, most likely due to budget constraints and time. There are free mmo's that offer non-lockon combat as well. Just a thought.
The most pathetic thing in the entire world is the kind of person that makes new accounts to spam nonsense.
Keep on failing my friend. What's this, your third account today you made to bash Darkfall? Pathetic..
Yes I have a new account. I read forums without posting or logging in. No this is not my 2nd or 3rd account.
You must not be in beta yet.
What am I 'failing'? All I did was express my frustation with the game, as I had high expectations for it. If you expect a movie to be great and it ends up being awful, do you consider any criticism to the movie to be 'bashing'?
Originally posted by pb1285n... So its okay for the SOE trolls to hound every forums and it's okay for the Eve fans to hound every forum and its okay for every other group to do what they want except for the DarkFall fans. Stop making excuses and admit a troll is a troll because they choose to troll. hype/dehype happens with every new release, don't act like it is anything new. ...
I would like to address this post because it nicely highlights the abuse of the word "TROLL"
S.O.E. There are a lot of people who do not like S.O.E. due to the whole SWG / NGE / CU thing. Valid? Maybe.
But, everytime someone mentions SOE now you get a troupe showing up saying "OMGZ! SWG was YEARS ago. Move on. It wasn't even S.O.E. it was Lucas... Vanguard was Sigil..." Okay.
But what these SOE apologists miss is that SOE's recent performance is not that good either.
A year ago SOE was the publisher / distributer for FLS's Pirates of the Burning Sea. Based on that, and that alone, SOE should be avoided.
Not just rumor and conjecture - but actual facts often direct from the Developer (FLS).
With regard to the EvE fans. Is it trollng? Is it viral marketing? Again, maybe.
But you have to look at what they post and why in context.
EvE fans often post to say that PvP in an MMO is possible without the game turning into a massive gankfest. They use EvE as a working example of one way it can be done.
Also, anyone who watches the news will be aware of the "BoB / GoonSquad" coup earlier this week? (I know about it and have never played EvE BTW) Now while game sites, gamers and developers alike argue whether this was a broken mechanic or a valid part of gameplay in the EvE world - clearly EvE is something unique. It sets an exampe (good or bad - depending on your perspective I guess).
And that's the thing about that word "TROLL". It does not apply to a post that can be backed by 'facts'. It does not apply to a post that is appropriate in context. It does not apply to a post that contains actual content.
Razorwax was a group of 4-6 folks from Norway working on Darkfall part time. They merged with Aventurine in 2003 and moved to Greece. The same core 4 developers are still part of Aventurine, but that does not = them being the same company.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
Originally posted by daywalker27 Originally posted by Shannia Originally posted by daywalker27 Originally posted by Lidane Originally posted by SignusMRazorwax was a group of 4-6 folks from Norway working on Darkfall part time. They merged with Aventurine in 2003 and moved to Greece. The same core 4 developers are still part of Aventurine, but that does not = them being the same company.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point. They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company. I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period. I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
And when Aventurine merged with Razorwax all they did was add several more people to the same game. This was admitted to by Aventurine. Just search to find the relative information that Aventurine admitted itself that the game was essentially the same.
Razorwax was a group of 4-6 folks from Norway working on Darkfall part time.
They merged with Aventurine in 2003 and moved to Greece. The same core 4 developers are still part of Aventurine, but that does not = them being the same company.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
And when Aventurine merged with Razorwax all they did was add several more people to the same game. This was admitted to by Aventurine. Just search to find the relative information that Aventurine admitted itself that the game was essentially the same.
The burden of evidence is on your side my friend.
Why should I have to find support to back up YOUR statement?
For the third time in this thread-- that is semantics, nothing else. The game was Darkfall when Razorwax started working on it in 2001, and it stayed Darkfall after Razorwax and Aventurine merged.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
It might change how the game turns out as far as graphics or gameplay, but it doesn't change what the game is. Period.
Valve likely went through a lot of personnel changes over the 9 years that TF2 was in development, adding and subtracting people from the game as it went on. Despite that, and despite all the changes they made over the years, the game's still Team Fortress 2. That never changed no matter what Valve did to the game over those long years.
Same goes for Darkfall. I don't care how many different coats of paint they've slapped on it or how many new sets of hands started to work on it when Razorwax and Aventurine merged. It started as Darkfall in 2001, and it's still Darkfall in 2009.
They changed countries. They changed the name on the company letterhead. They did NOT change the game they were working on, which has always been Darkfall, since 2001.
What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
Apparently, all of it.
And right here is a perfect example proving the OP's point.
Originally posted by daywalker27 And Lidane, you said it yourself, adding people would change the results, that's what I've been saying this entire time. Apparently we've been arguing different points of the same idea overall, I never said it would change what the game is OVERALL. We've been arguing over something we agree on it seems like.
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not so sure.
My basic point is and has always been that Aventurine and Razorwax are the same company. Aventurine absorbed Razorwax, keeping the same dev team around, and working on the very same game that was already in development in 2001. The letterhead changed. The location changed, since everyone moved to Athens. There have likely been improvements in coding and in graphical quality over the last eight years due to new technology. I would hope so, anyway. However, the basic game itself has NOT changed in that same time. It is and always has been Darkfall.
There's a fine distinction here that I'm making and I don't know if I'm getting it across or not. To my mind, Aventurine and Razorwax are the same, and so is the game they've been working on since 2001. New tech, new hands working on it, and new coats of paint don't factor in for me. It still is what it's always been.
I'm wondering, do you guys think that the fans of the game are a big reason why this game gets bashed so much? I do. Frankly, I wouldn't have really cared about the game that much had it not been for seeing every post, whether it had anything to do with Darkfall or not, be spammed by a select few individuals proclaiming how great Darkfall would be. Add on top of that the whole "Hype crusade" where DF fans came here and hyped up DF while dehyping everything else, I think the fans of this game have had a big part in causing the excessing bashing, "trolling", and any other negative attention this game gets. How many of you would be as diligently bashing this game if it wasn't for the individuals with such unreasonable blind faith spamming us for so long?
That pretty much sums it up. Thread after thread after thread. Someone posts, I miss SWG pre CU... You need to play Darkfall!
I"m looking forward to Aion...
That's crap compared to Darkfall!
I think this that or the other thing about PvP....
None of that matters, Darkfall wil revolutionize PvP!
Thread after thread after thread. I think a lot of people got tired of it.
Originally posted by daywalker27 And Lidane, you said it yourself, adding people would change the results, that's what I've been saying this entire time. Apparently we've been arguing different points of the same idea overall, I never said it would change what the game is OVERALL. We've been arguing over something we agree on it seems like.
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not so sure.
My basic point is and has always been that Aventurine and Razorwax are the same company. Aventurine absorbed Razorwax, keeping the same dev team around, and working on the very same game that was already in development in 2001. The letterhead changed. The location changed, since everyone moved to Athens. There have likely been improvements in coding and in graphical quality over the last eight years due to new technology. I would hope so, anyway. However, the basic game itself has NOT changed in that same time. It is and always has been Darkfall.
There's a fine distinction here that I'm making and I don't know if I'm getting it across or not. To my mind, Aventurine and Razorwax are the same, and so is the game they've been working on since 2001. New tech, new hands working on it, and new coats of paint don't factor in for me. It still is what it's always been.
Huh...so you have a sekret catalog of how to define "haters" against AV/DFO? What id dey sekretz masterzzz.
You could explain this to the haters 100 times over, unfortunately rocks do not have the ability to comprehend.
I am obviously talking about pure haters, skeptics I can stomach, ignorant people can be taught, but hate cannot get beaten out of anyone...its the way one is raised (parents and teachers are basically responsible).
Btw id just like to add I hope the game suceeds and is good. Im looking foreward to seeing it do just that. However...what has ... come ... to ... pass ... is very discouraging, so ill leave it at that, and await the release.
Razorwax was a group of 4-6 folks from Norway working on Darkfall part time.
They merged with Aventurine in 2003 and moved to Greece. The same core 4 developers are still part of Aventurine, but that does not = them being the same company.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
And when Aventurine merged with Razorwax all they did was add several more people to the same game. This was admitted to by Aventurine. Just search to find the relative information that Aventurine admitted itself that the game was essentially the same.
The burden of evidence is on your side my friend.
Why should I have to find support to back up YOUR statement?
"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?
Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.
Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "
Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?
Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."
Plain and simple, anyone who tries to say the game was scrapped and redone is FULL OF SHIT.
MMORPG.com: Can you tell us, as of the answering of this Q&A exactly where Darkfall stands in terms of nearness to being a launch-ready title?
Tasos Flambouras: Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time.
That was back in early December. If they could launch back then, and were more ready than anyone else at that stage, why the delays? Also, if the game is in that good of a shape, why keep the NDA up through now, three weeks from their current release date? Let everyone see it for themselves. Open up the servers to a real open beta, let the media in, and drop the NDA. Let the game speak for itself.
They haven't done that at all. It's natural to question Aventurine and their claims as a result.
How is that untrue? It is far far FAR more stable than the past few MMO launch titles (Age of Conan and Vanguard). Rock solid servers, few bugs, rapid patching, yeah it could easily have launched in December. But oh wait, they want to take more time so that its as flawless as possible at launch? That's a BAD thing?
It's untrue because at that time all of the game features had not been implemented or tested. Many did not work properly when finally implemented and were either removed or reworked. Some features still have not been implemented. Some will never be implemented. he necessary skill balancing has not been done It's a blatant lie. The game is incomplete that's why it was delayed.
And didn't Tasos state that the game hadn't been properly tested yet - among other reasons - explaining why the Jan 22nd launch was being delayed in his announcement (I believe it was on or around Jan 15).
That would seem to me that Tasos himself realized the game *wasn't* ready for release.
Not to mention the myriad statements made over the years that have proven false (ie. the game was soon to enter beta back in 2003... that they would never do pre-orders... and so on)...
Yeah, yeah I know... I'm citing pesky, verifiable facts that certain fans hate being reminded of. Much easier to just forget those details... or spin them disingenuously, as Signus does in his response.
Unfortunately... this is the real world and facts do matter, whether one likes them or not.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It's called "having a discussion". I know that doesn't neatly fit any of the "fanboy vs. hater" categories that this place supposedly falls into according to the drama queens that are always whining about how awful these boards are, but that's what's going on.
It was announced as being in development in 2001, with a predicted release date for 2003.
Razorwax was formed in 2000, that is when development on Darkfall started.
Claus started planning and pre development of Darkfall in 1995.
Razorwax, its developers and Claus himself have officially said this in several interviews and on their own old website.
If Darkfall launches commercially in 2009 it will of been in various forms of development for 15 years.
6 in planning and pre development, 9 in full development.
Hard to believe but true, and often ignored or denied by supporters.
But its hardly surprising considering their circumstances, financial constraints and the ambitious nature of the project, not to mention their inexperience and amateurism.
Considering only this it's hardly surprising this game and its developers attract so many "troll haters" aka skeptics and critics.
When one factors in the years of lies, BS, unsubstantiated claims, and outrageous boasts and the past activity and behavior of its "passionate community" its inevitable.
It's called "having a discussion". I know that doesn't neatly fit any of the "fanboy vs. hater" categories that this place supposedly falls into according to the drama queens that are always whining about how awful these boards are, but that's what's going on.
Wait...Are you saying that this thread is a discussion?
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
EVE Online forums has had a plethora of trolls descend upon it after they got bored with WAR/AoC. So I dont think DF fans caused it really. I just think some people just love to bring the drama and still will far after the game is released while people like me will be ingame having fun not trying to argue with anyone on these forums
Comments
They changed countries. They changed the name on the company letterhead. They did NOT change the game they were working on, which has always been Darkfall, since 2001.
What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
Sorry Lidane, there is nothing we can do. While we were not looking, someone replaced the tinfoil hats on the fanbois with titanium hats. We are all doomed.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
They changed countries. They changed the name on the company letterhead. They did NOT change the game they were working on, which has always been Darkfall, since 2001.
What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
Oh boy here we go again.
The game, Darkfall, a basement project of 4 people in Norway, under Razorwax, is a far far different game than the one being released now. Everything about the game was stripped down and redone.
When you have a group of 4 people in 2001, vs a full fledged, full time company, with 30 new people, new money, new tech, new equipment, you don't keep around the same basement net code you made with your buddies in 2001. The basic idea was the same, but the game was completely restarted.
Don't believe me? Look at the Darkfall press release, it says it has been in development since 2003.
Darkfall Travelogues!
So its okay for the SOE trolls to hound every forums and it's okay for the Eve fans to hound every forum and its okay for every other group to do what they want except for the DarkFall fans.
Stop making excuses and admit a troll is a troll because they choose to troll. hype/dehype happens with every new release, don't act like it is anything new.
The only way your excuses make sense is if you are saying that people troll because they resent other people's happiness in which case that makes you a very very sick person.
Darkfall trolls are almost as delusional as SOE trolls. They are so influenced by the other trolls around them they are ready to believe any crap that gets spewed out.
lol SOE trolls do not go troll about SOE where SOE has nothing to do with a game, unlike the DF fans, they will go to other game boards and troll them calling it carebear and theampark game. How many SOE trolls are here in the DF board? Now if SOE bought adventurine then ya the SOE trolls would be here. Just go to a high hyped forum like Aion and you will see thats there is DF fans there promoting DF while trolling Aion. As for Eve I cant say that I have ever seen more than a handfull of Eve trolls outside of the eve board. I have seen a couple here in the DF section telling us how eve will be better than DF but still they are small in numbers. DF fans bring "trolls" in because they are trolling OTHER game forums. I cant even count how many times I have seen the words korean grinder, carebear, and theampark in the Aion board, and within the same post DF is mentioned or its in the OP's sig or quote line.
EDIT: furthermore I am not an EVE fan, nor hav I ever been to its board but I bet you a 100$ that I could go there and find a DF fan trolling the EVE boards.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
So by your own admission, it's still the same game that it has been since 2001, even if the code is updated, or a new coat of paint is slapped on it? Good. Glad we got that settled.
Don't believe me? Look at Valve-- they started Team Fortress 2 back in 1998, but it wasn't released until 2007. It was delayed multiple times and even called vaporware in the press. The code was redone as tech improved. The whole art style changed. Guess what? It's still the same game despite all those changes.
So by your own admission, it's still the same game that it has been since 2001, even if the code is updated, or a new coat of paint is slapped on it? Good. Glad we got that settled.
Don't believe me? Look at Valve-- they started Team Fortress 2 back in 1998, but it wasn't released until 2007. It was delayed multiple times and even called vaporware in the press. The code was redone as tech improved. The whole art style changed. Guess what? It's still the same game despite all those changes.
Hey now, watch the use of VAPORWARE around these forums. I've gotten so sick of having to teach the fanbois what vaporware means that I finally gave up and made it my signature. Trust me when I say no other word on the forums brings out the tinfoil hats faster than the V word.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
The most pathetic thing in the entire world is the kind of person that makes new accounts to spam nonsense.
Keep on failing my friend. What's this, your third account today you made to bash Darkfall? Pathetic..
Yes I have a new account. I read forums without posting or logging in. No this is not my 2nd or 3rd account.
You must not be in beta yet.
What am I 'failing'? All I did was express my frustation with the game, as I had high expectations for it. If you expect a movie to be great and it ends up being awful, do you consider any criticism to the movie to be 'bashing'?
Grow up.
I would like to address this post because it nicely highlights the abuse of the word "TROLL"
S.O.E. There are a lot of people who do not like S.O.E. due to the whole SWG / NGE / CU thing. Valid? Maybe.
But, everytime someone mentions SOE now you get a troupe showing up saying "OMGZ! SWG was YEARS ago. Move on. It wasn't even S.O.E. it was Lucas... Vanguard was Sigil..." Okay.
But what these SOE apologists miss is that SOE's recent performance is not that good either.
A year ago SOE was the publisher / distributer for FLS's Pirates of the Burning Sea. Based on that, and that alone, SOE should be avoided.
Not just rumor and conjecture - but actual facts often direct from the Developer (FLS).
With regard to the EvE fans. Is it trollng? Is it viral marketing? Again, maybe.
But you have to look at what they post and why in context.
EvE fans often post to say that PvP in an MMO is possible without the game turning into a massive gankfest. They use EvE as a working example of one way it can be done.
Also, anyone who watches the news will be aware of the "BoB / GoonSquad" coup earlier this week? (I know about it and have never played EvE BTW) Now while game sites, gamers and developers alike argue whether this was a broken mechanic or a valid part of gameplay in the EvE world - clearly EvE is something unique. It sets an exampe (good or bad - depending on your perspective I guess).
And that's the thing about that word "TROLL". It does not apply to a post that can be backed by 'facts'. It does not apply to a post that is appropriate in context. It does not apply to a post that contains actual content.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
And when Aventurine merged with Razorwax all they did was add several more people to the same game. This was admitted to by Aventurine. Just search to find the relative information that Aventurine admitted itself that the game was essentially the same.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
And when Aventurine merged with Razorwax all they did was add several more people to the same game. This was admitted to by Aventurine. Just search to find the relative information that Aventurine admitted itself that the game was essentially the same.
The burden of evidence is on your side my friend.
Why should I have to find support to back up YOUR statement?
They changed countries. They changed the name on the company letterhead. They did NOT change the game they were working on, which has always been Darkfall, since 2001.
What part of that is difficult to comprehend?
Apparently, all of it.
And right here is a perfect example proving the OP's point.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not so sure.
My basic point is and has always been that Aventurine and Razorwax are the same company. Aventurine absorbed Razorwax, keeping the same dev team around, and working on the very same game that was already in development in 2001. The letterhead changed. The location changed, since everyone moved to Athens. There have likely been improvements in coding and in graphical quality over the last eight years due to new technology. I would hope so, anyway. However, the basic game itself has NOT changed in that same time. It is and always has been Darkfall.
There's a fine distinction here that I'm making and I don't know if I'm getting it across or not. To my mind, Aventurine and Razorwax are the same, and so is the game they've been working on since 2001. New tech, new hands working on it, and new coats of paint don't factor in for me. It still is what it's always been.
That pretty much sums it up. Thread after thread after thread. Someone posts, I miss SWG pre CU... You need to play Darkfall!
I"m looking forward to Aion...
That's crap compared to Darkfall!
I think this that or the other thing about PvP....
None of that matters, Darkfall wil revolutionize PvP!
Thread after thread after thread. I think a lot of people got tired of it.
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not so sure.
My basic point is and has always been that Aventurine and Razorwax are the same company. Aventurine absorbed Razorwax, keeping the same dev team around, and working on the very same game that was already in development in 2001. The letterhead changed. The location changed, since everyone moved to Athens. There have likely been improvements in coding and in graphical quality over the last eight years due to new technology. I would hope so, anyway. However, the basic game itself has NOT changed in that same time. It is and always has been Darkfall.
There's a fine distinction here that I'm making and I don't know if I'm getting it across or not. To my mind, Aventurine and Razorwax are the same, and so is the game they've been working on since 2001. New tech, new hands working on it, and new coats of paint don't factor in for me. It still is what it's always been.
Huh...so you have a sekret catalog of how to define "haters" against AV/DFO? What id dey sekretz masterzzz.
You could explain this to the haters 100 times over, unfortunately rocks do not have the ability to comprehend.
I am obviously talking about pure haters, skeptics I can stomach, ignorant people can be taught, but hate cannot get beaten out of anyone...its the way one is raised (parents and teachers are basically responsible).
Btw id just like to add I hope the game suceeds and is good. Im looking foreward to seeing it do just that. However...what has ... come ... to ... pass ... is very discouraging, so ill leave it at that, and await the release.
Oh please. Now you're just parsing things to try and make a point.
They're the same people. Aventurine was started with the purpose of continuing development of Darkfall. They absorbed Razorwax, and everyone moved to Greece because it was cheaper and made more business sense for everyone to be in the same place. The same people are still part of the company.
I don't care how badly you want to try and pretend that they're two different companies that have worked on two different games. That's wrong. Once they merged, Razorwax and Aventurine became the same company, with the same people involved, working on the same game. Period.
I like how you list a source then you continue to lie, that article says it was 5 people from Razorwax working on Darkfall in 2001, and in 2003, Aventurine and Razorwax merged, with more people joining in the merge, so it still ISN'T the exact same team, there we several more people.
By your logic, what you are saying is that when Mythic merged EA and the Mythic team working on WAR went from 250 people to over 400 people, that it must no longer have been the same team on the same game. So if it wasn't WAR before and after the merger, what was it? If it wasn't DFO before and after the merger, what was it? Please, stop trying to play word games. It is the same people that are still working on the project after the merger, plus more. It doesn't mean it was a whole different project. Good grief.
Different Team working on the same game.
Increasing a team by 150 is going to change the game's turnout if it was the same 250.
And when Aventurine merged with Razorwax all they did was add several more people to the same game. This was admitted to by Aventurine. Just search to find the relative information that Aventurine admitted itself that the game was essentially the same.
The burden of evidence is on your side my friend.
Why should I have to find support to back up YOUR statement?
I'll provide it for him:
1. FAQ over at WarCry: df.warcry.com/faq/view/237/
If you click on the "What is razorwax?" question (1.3) it will give you the history of Razorwax, Aventurine and Darkfall.
2. Here is a detailed article at WarCry about the history of the game up to the point the article was written (2007): www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surlys-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurine-Heres-the-Rub
3. Here is an interview from 2003 at GameBanshee:www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php
This is a direct quote from the interview:
"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?
Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.
Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "
4. Here is an interview at IGnVault in 2005:rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html
Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?
Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."
Plain and simple, anyone who tries to say the game was scrapped and redone is FULL OF SHIT.
Thank you Zorvan,
I was gonna post those links myself but real life called me away. That is what having kids will do
Spin incoming...
Darkfall must be really stable and polished,its been feature complete for 6 years!
Man you guys must be really bored...
O rly?
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/news/read/12400/Interview-with-Tasos-Flambouras.html
MMORPG.com: Can you tell us, as of the answering of this Q&A exactly where Darkfall stands in terms of nearness to being a launch-ready title?
Tasos Flambouras: Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time.
That was back in early December. If they could launch back then, and were more ready than anyone else at that stage, why the delays? Also, if the game is in that good of a shape, why keep the NDA up through now, three weeks from their current release date? Let everyone see it for themselves. Open up the servers to a real open beta, let the media in, and drop the NDA. Let the game speak for itself.
They haven't done that at all. It's natural to question Aventurine and their claims as a result.
How is that untrue? It is far far FAR more stable than the past few MMO launch titles (Age of Conan and Vanguard). Rock solid servers, few bugs, rapid patching, yeah it could easily have launched in December. But oh wait, they want to take more time so that its as flawless as possible at launch? That's a BAD thing?
It's untrue because at that time all of the game features had not been implemented or tested. Many did not work properly when finally implemented and were either removed or reworked. Some features still have not been implemented. Some will never be implemented. he necessary skill balancing has not been done It's a blatant lie. The game is incomplete that's why it was delayed.
And didn't Tasos state that the game hadn't been properly tested yet - among other reasons - explaining why the Jan 22nd launch was being delayed in his announcement (I believe it was on or around Jan 15).
That would seem to me that Tasos himself realized the game *wasn't* ready for release.
Not to mention the myriad statements made over the years that have proven false (ie. the game was soon to enter beta back in 2003... that they would never do pre-orders... and so on)...
Yeah, yeah I know... I'm citing pesky, verifiable facts that certain fans hate being reminded of. Much easier to just forget those details... or spin them disingenuously, as Signus does in his response.
Unfortunately... this is the real world and facts do matter, whether one likes them or not.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It's called "having a discussion". I know that doesn't neatly fit any of the "fanboy vs. hater" categories that this place supposedly falls into according to the drama queens that are always whining about how awful these boards are, but that's what's going on.
Darkfall did not start development in 2001.
It was announced as being in development in 2001, with a predicted release date for 2003.
Razorwax was formed in 2000, that is when development on Darkfall started.
Claus started planning and pre development of Darkfall in 1995.
Razorwax, its developers and Claus himself have officially said this in several interviews and on their own old website.
If Darkfall launches commercially in 2009 it will of been in various forms of development for 15 years.
6 in planning and pre development, 9 in full development.
Hard to believe but true, and often ignored or denied by supporters.
But its hardly surprising considering their circumstances, financial constraints and the ambitious nature of the project, not to mention their inexperience and amateurism.
Considering only this it's hardly surprising this game and its developers attract so many "troll haters" aka skeptics and critics.
When one factors in the years of lies, BS, unsubstantiated claims, and outrageous boasts and the past activity and behavior of its "passionate community" its inevitable.
It's called "having a discussion". I know that doesn't neatly fit any of the "fanboy vs. hater" categories that this place supposedly falls into according to the drama queens that are always whining about how awful these boards are, but that's what's going on.
Wait...Are you saying that this thread is a discussion?
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
EVE Online forums has had a plethora of trolls descend upon it after they got bored with WAR/AoC. So I dont think DF fans caused it really. I just think some people just love to bring the drama and still will far after the game is released while people like me will be ingame having fun not trying to argue with anyone on these forums
People are talking and giving their opinions back and forth, so yes. Like it or not, it's a discussion.