Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is SWG closing anytime soon?

135

Comments

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    Originally posted by Suvroc


    ..I must point out that  in the past some people would request proof that subs were declining when such assertions were made. I have to ask BadgerSmacker for the same proof that subs are increasing, otherwise it's just speculation - as was so frequently pointed out before.



     

    The proof is in the pudding, log in and see.  SWG is busy and growing, new players and returning veterans further bolster the ranks of the passionate and dedicated active subscribers daily.

    Since Chapter 11 the game has started selling itself with great content and adventures in the Star Wars universe.

    There was a time after the NGE when I would not recommend this game to anyone, but now I'm confident that Star Wars fans and those looking for the ultimate in MMORPG entertainment would be happy with SWG.

    I don't think I've ever seen such a large, steaming pile of BS in one post ever.

    I played a few months ago on a free trial, and I can safely say I could only find 5 people online at prime time, and 4 of those were afk.

    I also must question how SWG is "selling itself" when you can't find it in any stores? They aren't in stores anymore(probably because no one was buying them). If they aren't in stores, then you can only find it on the internet. If you are finding it on the internet, then you have also probably found all the stuff about the history of it. Most people probably wouldn't buy it because of some "chapter 11 all the fanbois say is peachy". The only way this game could realistically sell a lot is to people that find it in the store and know nothing about it, and since it isn't in stores that probably isn't true.

    Liking the game is one thing, but making up complete lies to try and get people to play is completely different. Shame on you.

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

  • DracusDracus Member Posts: 1,449
    Originally posted by ummax...
    I have to agree with most of what you say.   Here is an example of something similar that in fact drives me nuts and its pretty much related to what happens on this board and to people who spend their entire lives playing "critic".   
    ...

    There are some items that need to be clarified here.

    1)  MMORPG's are different than movies, due to the amount of time, effort and money invested.  As such, players feel a form of "ownership" with the game.  I own a home, a vehicle, a pet, weapons, armor, and even figurines that somehow avatars can't play with. With that players feel their feedback or opinions should have some merit.  Movies and books on the other hand are short term investments and provide no interaction.

    2) Star Wars is one of the top Sci-Fi IP's and thus has a large passionate fan base.  While everyone does have their vision of what SWG should be or could have been, there are some commonalities.  The NGE did address some of the problems, but unfortunately made sweeping changes which the majority of the player base did not want.  To further insult the player base, the player base was not consulted or notified of the possible changes; well until the changes were being put into the test servers.

    3) People do not like changes, even if the changes are good.

    4) However, with effective change management policies, people can learn to accept those changes.

    5) SOE and LA did not use any change management policy to the customers.  Unfortunately, both companies rammed the changes into the customer's throat and with a... what was it, 10 day notice?  Which then provided the perception that neither company cares not for what the customers' opinions or feedback are.  Rather, player feedback is only used for validation purposes and that both companies know what is best; not the customer.



    SWG is or was a good game (depending on which version the reader likes).  However both companies manage SWG poorly, along with poor customer service policies, as such with change management.  Since Star Wars has a passionate fan base, how SWG was managed has disenfranchised a significant amount, myself included, of fans.  And therefore, when a customer's opinion, feedback or trust is not taken into account, then the customer uses the power of the wallet by going elsewhere and spreading the news.

    Both SOE and LA can mitigate this disenfranchisment, even today with effective customer service policies.  However, given this has been over three years since the NGE and little has been done; the feud between both sides will continue, even after the shutdown of SWG.

    And that is why...

    Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  • khristenkhristen Member Posts: 10
    Originally posted by Valeran


    A revolving door dev staff.  As was stated before...the server transfers have given approx. 5-6 servers new life.  The rest are pretty much dead or treading water. 
    Until you see people complaining about not being able to login due to the servers being full...ie the queue is full due to hitting the cap then I will believe the population hype. 
    As for the server status we know it can and has been manipulated by SOE.
    The game is what it is now.  There is no going back and there really is not a future to it.  LEC controls the IP and can pull the plug when they wish.  There is no reason for them to pull it right now as it is not in their best interest but I would avoid investing too much time and energy into the current game but that is my opinion.



     

    I don't think anyone has said that all the servers are doing great and rosy.  The destination servers of the FCTS, however, are doing much better than they were a few months ago.  That's where you are seeing people coming back and staying because there is a community to interact with.  SWG never did fill all of those servers fully beyond the first week or two of launch--not by a long shot.

    And Starsider actually did have several issues with people not being able to login immediately because the server was full just a few weeks ago.  They've done some server improvements to alleviate that issue.  It's still running "Very Heavy" in peak times and can take a bit to get in, though.

    And we don't "know" that the server status has been manipulated by SOE.  Disgruntled players who refuse to believe that anyone would log into a version of SWG that isn't pre-CU "know" it, but to my knowledge it has never been stated in any kind of official capacity.  Considering how tight-lipped they are about population numbers, I'm going to have to go with a "show me where they said it or it didn't happen."

    It isn't fair to say there isn't a future in SWG.  Maybe not for you, but for many players there most certainly is.  SWG is a completely different type of game than what SWTOR is shaping up to be.  There are many players who would never trade their sandbox-style SWG for the "be a hero...with STORY!!!" line of BS that's coming from SWTOR.  SWG leadership has made many, many mistakes in the past, but they are starting to listen to players when they ask for the sandbox tools and they've started calling it that type of game again.  There are plenty of Star Wars games out there where you can be the hero of the story, but I'd much rather play a game where I can live in the Star Wars universe than have them tell me what my story is.

    Many people are coming back because other games don't offer anything near what SWG does.  And unless that happens, I think people will continue to come back.

  • SuvrocSuvroc Member Posts: 2,383
    Originally posted by khristen




     
     Maybe not for you, but for many players there most certainly is.  SWG is a completely different type of game than what SWTOR is shaping up to be.  There are many players who would never trade their sandbox-style SWG for the "be a hero...with STORY!!!" line of BS that's coming from SWTOR.  SWG leadership has made many, many mistakes in the past, but they are starting to listen to players when they ask for the sandbox tools and they've started calling it that type of game again.  There are plenty of Star Wars games out there where you can be the hero of the story, but I'd much rather play a game where I can live in the Star Wars universe than have them tell me what my story is.
    Many people are coming back because other games don't offer anything near what SWG does.  And unless that happens, I think people will continue to come back.



     

    Well, I would say that WoW was also a completely different game then what SWG used to be and that still had a huge affect on SWG. Hell WoW wasn't even a sci-fi MMO nevermind another Star Wars MMO.

     

  • slythsslyths Member UncommonPosts: 209

    I pray it does... so they can come up with something new...

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Member Posts: 2,096
    Originally posted by Dracus

    Originally posted by ummax...
    I have to agree with most of what you say.   Here is an example of something similar that in fact drives me nuts and its pretty much related to what happens on this board and to people who spend their entire lives playing "critic".   
    ...

    There are some items that need to be clarified here.

    1)  MMORPG's are different than movies, due to the amount of time, effort and money invested.  As such, players feel a form of "ownership" with the game.  I own a home, a vehicle, a pet, weapons, armor, and even figurines that somehow avatars can't play with. With that players feel their feedback or opinions should have some merit.  Movies and books on the other hand are short term investments and provide no interaction.

    2) Star Wars is one of the top Sci-Fi IP's and thus has a large passionate fan base.  While everyone does have their vision of what SWG should be or could have been, there are some commonalities.  The NGE did address some of the problems, but unfortunately made sweeping changes which the majority of the player base did not want.  To further insult the player base, the player base was not consulted or notified of the possible changes; well until the changes were being put into the test servers.

    3) People do not like changes, even if the changes are good.

    4) However, with effective change management policies, people can learn to accept those changes.

    5) SOE and LA did not use any change management policy to the customers.  Unfortunately, both companies rammed the changes into the customer's throat and with a... what was it, 10 day notice?  Which then provided the perception that neither company cares not for what the customers' opinions or feedback are.  Rather, player feedback is only used for validation purposes and that both companies know what is best; not the customer.



    SWG is or was a good game (depending on which version the reader likes).  However both companies manage SWG poorly, along with poor customer service policies, as such with change management.  Since Star Wars has a passionate fan base, how SWG was managed has disenfranchised a significant amount, myself included, of fans.  And therefore, when a customer's opinion, feedback or trust is not taken into account, then the customer uses the power of the wallet by going elsewhere and spreading the news.

    Both SOE and LA can mitigate this disenfranchisment, even today with effective customer service policies.  However, given this has been over three years since the NGE and little has been done; the feud between both sides will continue, even after the shutdown of SWG.

    You can attempt to validate folks actions all you want.

     

    The bottom line though is that some are still kicking their feet over 3 years later. About a change in a video game no less.

    It doesnt get any more pathetic in gaming circles. At least not in the various boards I read I should say.

    I am guilty myself...I go thru spurts of having to read the non-sense. It is akin to the ole train wreck that folks cant help but look at. It makes for some great reading/laughing at folks, even if it requires breaks due to getting bored of reading the same topics repeated constantly.

    Would really like to see a talk show have a few "vets" on for a days topic. IMO someone like Dr Phil would have a field day with several of these "vets", and their inability to go on with their lives.

    I would have to think even he would get a laugh out of all of it. Especially with how the 100k-ish, that did enjoy the PRECioUs, somehow feeling they are more entitled to a "sand-box Uncle Owen" game than the rest of the fans are entitled to a MMO representing what Star Wars is about...that being action.

    I still say Koster should be smacked for making a RL sim, rather than a SW game. Or better yet...his Meta-Place project being stuck with "vets" as his only revenue source.

    The PRECioUs was great for all those "Uncle Owens" out there that wanted to get their mangina cyber luvin in from the local ent.

    For the rest of us wanting a game with content, the PRECioUs failed miserably.So not only have we waited many years for a worthy SW MMO, we have had to deal with the social misfits besides.

    Hopefully they eventually get their "duck" project completed...cause I sure wouldnt wanna deal with the majority of them in any MMO I am playing.

    I said it when SOE changed the game in Nov 05...I dont agree with how they dropped it on folks. But we are now working on 4 years...give it a rest already. And if not, then keep this BS in the "vet forum" where it belongs. We heard ya the first 5 million times you guys made these posts.

    You may like to hear these items repeated...to others it is akin to the ole Chinese Water Torture.

    Enough already....sheesh!

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • ValeranValeran Member Posts: 925

    LOL

    --------
    Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism

    "SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor

  • SuperwasbeerSuperwasbeer Member Posts: 85

    Indeed.

    image

  • Spiritof55Spiritof55 Member Posts: 405

    I sub to swg and like it alot.

    swg is the bastard child sony regrets and since they probably don't have full control over it to do as they please then swg will be left to rot (eq1 & 2 have had expansions recently.....where is the love for swg?) till some oppritunity comes along giving sony an excuse to close the servers.  Thats why smedly foresees the eventual "sunsetting" of swg.  They want to close it.

    If sony drops swg I feel someone else will pick it up.  

     

  • DracusDracus Member Posts: 1,449
    Originally posted by Moaky07


    You can attempt to validate folks actions all you want.

     
    The bottom line though is that some are still kicking their feet over 3 years later. About a change in a video game no less.
    ...
    You may like to hear these items repeated...to others it is akin to the ole Chinese Water Torture.
    Enough already....sheesh!

    And thank you providing a classic rant of why this for and against SOE/LA/SWG will continue on well after the passing of SWG.

    The story of SWG keeps going, for another reason, that it has become a Business Case Study for the industry.

     



    But I must correct a statement you made, of which the original SWG failed miserably.  That is incorrect.  While the original SWG was not successful in retaining subscribers (which can be argued that it was the management and not the game itself), the original SWG did perform better terms of new subscribers and subscriber retention than of the NGE version.

    SWG: PCU - Peak of 300k to 350k with slow bleeding thereafter.

    SWG: NGE - No peak, drastic drop soon afterwards.  Later to a steady descrease with no increase as of yet.

    (The server merges only give a perception of increase due to the increase of population density.  Two months after completion of the server merges will give an indication of further decrease or a turn around of increase)

     

    And that is why...

    Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  • BadgerSmakerBadgerSmaker Member Posts: 629
    Originally posted by Dracus


    SWG: NGE - No peak, drastic drop soon afterwards.  Later to a steady descrease with no increase as of yet.

    (The server merges only give a perception of increase due to the increase of population density.  Two months after completion of the server merges will give an indication of further decrease or a turn around of increase)
     



     

    There has been a steady increase in players joining and returning to SWG, Chapter 11 was a deciding factor and more players return with every publish.

    Veterans are returning on the veteran trial, moving their characters with the Free CTS and subscribing.  New players are downloading the free trial and then subscribing.

    Even before the Free CTS, you could see a quite intimidating increase in the number of players in SWG, having been used to rather lower levels of population it's rather daunting when you consider that all these players, with all their different styles of gameplay and pet feature requests now need to co-exist in such an infamous game, but it seems to be going very well.

    image

  • DracusDracus Member Posts: 1,449

    You are correct that more players are joining, actually everyday there are players are coming and returning to SWG.

    However, there are more players leaving than there are those joining/returning and paying.

    That is the churn rate is still great.

    Free trials consume more resources and do not provide revenue, unless there was in-game advertisement.  As to how many new players are subscribing after playing the trial is questionable.  I do agree there are some, but not enough to counter the effects of the churn rate.

    Note:  Industrial average is a 5% Churn Rate of existing subscribers (Every month 5% of the player base cancels/quits).

    The question to answer, are there more unique paying accounts created/reactivated than there are of cancelations?

    With the server merges it is not possible to answer that (unless with inside sources or official announcement) question.  But in about two months, an outside ruling can be made.

    And that is why...

    Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  • BadgerSmakerBadgerSmaker Member Posts: 629
    Originally posted by Dracus




    However, there are more players leaving than there are those joining/returning and paying.

    That is the churn rate is still great.



     

    SWG right now has the highest subscriber retention rate I've ever experienced.  I really don't see players leaving at the rate you describe. 

    I meet new and returning players across many different servers, add them to my friends list and they are then displayed in my Station Launcher friends lists (which lists friends online across all SWG servers).

    This list has been building rapidly over the last year and I can see that these people continue to actively play for many months, rather than what I used to see which was people getting on a Trial and never coming back.

    Obviously that still happens, but players are much more likely now to stick around due to the Chapter and Game Update publish path which as brought much needed content, bug fixes and feature requests and improved the quality of the game dramatically.

    image

  • SuvrocSuvroc Member Posts: 2,383
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    Originally posted by Dracus




    However, there are more players leaving than there are those joining/returning and paying.

    That is the churn rate is still great.



     

    SWG right now has the highest subscriber retention rate I've ever experienced.  I really don't see players leaving at the rate you describe. 

    I meet new and returning players across many different servers, add them to my friends list and they are then displayed in my Station Launcher friends lists (which lists friends online across all SWG servers).

    This list has been building rapidly over the last year and I can see that these people continue to actively play for many months, rather than what I used to see which was people getting on a Trial and never coming back.

    Obviously that still happens, but players are much more likely now to stick around due to the Chapter and Game Update publish path which as brought much needed content, bug fixes and feature requests and improved the quality of the game dramatically.



     

    For whatever reason February of last year had a larger then normal population for post-NGE SWG and that trend is likely happening this year as well. But if this trend continues it will decrease again in the next month or two.

    SWG, like most MMO's I'm sure, go through highs and lows throughout the year. I believe that what you see now is the peak of that "high".

  • ValeranValeran Member Posts: 925
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    Originally posted by Dracus




    However, there are more players leaving than there are those joining/returning and paying.

    That is the churn rate is still great.



     

    SWG right now has the highest subscriber retention rate I've ever experienced.  I really don't see players leaving at the rate you describe. 

    I meet new and returning players across many different servers, add them to my friends list and they are then displayed in my Station Launcher friends lists (which lists friends online across all SWG servers).

    This list has been building rapidly over the last year and I can see that these people continue to actively play for many months, rather than what I used to see which was people getting on a Trial and never coming back.

    Obviously that still happens, but players are much more likely now to stick around due to the Chapter and Game Update publish path which as brought much needed content, bug fixes and feature requests and improved the quality of the game dramatically.

     

    So by your logic server merges/transfers were not needed then?

    --------
    Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism

    "SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor

  • BadgerSmakerBadgerSmaker Member Posts: 629
    Originally posted by Valeran


    So by your logic server merges/transfers were not needed then?



     

    Players wanted to be given the choice of what server they played their characters on, SoE gave this to them and it has been a very popular move.

    Players are returning, moving to high population servers and having a great time.

    image

  • SuvrocSuvroc Member Posts: 2,383
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    Originally posted by Valeran


    So by your logic server merges/transfers were not needed then?



     

    Players wanted to be given the choice of what server they played their characters on, SoE gave this to them and it has been a very popular move.

    Players are returning, moving to high population servers and having a great time.



     

    They already have this choice at the character creation screen.

  • BadgerSmakerBadgerSmaker Member Posts: 629
    Originally posted by Suvroc


    They already have this choice at the character creation screen.



     

    Players build up real attachments to their characters and the achievements of their characters. 

    If they were happy to re-roll then there wouldn't have been any Free CTS.  Demand for this free service was very high, and it has made a lot of players very happy.

    image

  • huxflux2004huxflux2004 Member Posts: 730
    Originally posted by charlespayne


    Just so you know sandbox means you can place stuff anywhere in the world like harvesters and houses and linear means you have to stick with what you see and cant alter it, and since SWG you can still place houses and stuff that makes it still a sandbox game.

     

    Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.

    Neo: What truth?

    Spoon boy: There is no spoon.

    Neo: There is no spoon?

    Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

     

    Nice redefinition of sandbox.

     

  • SuvrocSuvroc Member Posts: 2,383
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    Originally posted by Suvroc


    They already have this choice at the character creation screen.



     

    Players build up real attachments to their characters and the achievements of their characters. 

    If they were happy to re-roll then there wouldn't have been any Free CTS.  Demand for this free service was very high, and it has made a lot of players very happy.



     

    But you're only assuming that the catalyst for people changing servers was simply because the option was available to them. You're not identifying any realistic reasons why people would leave one server for another. There must be a reason why people left one server for another, and I don't buy the "option" excuse as it doesn't make much sense. Remember, people don't like change only for the sake of change.

    The only realisitc answer is that there were not enough people to formulate a decent community, which is a far cry from where we were in the past. So, how can the game be "as busy as ever"?

  • ValeranValeran Member Posts: 925
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    Originally posted by Valeran


    So by your logic server merges/transfers were not needed then?



     

    Players wanted to be given the choice of what server they played their characters on, SoE gave this to them and it has been a very popular move.

    Players are returning, moving to high population servers and having a great time.

     

    They already had a choice.  You are avoiding the question.  The server merges/transfers were because of DEAD servers.  This was stated by them as well.

    So I ask again...by your logic above were they really needed if the chapter/update system and the population is increasing?

    --------
    Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism

    "SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor

  • DracusDracus Member Posts: 1,449
    Originally posted by BadgerSmaker

    SWG right now has the highest subscriber retention rate I've ever experienced.  I really don't see players leaving at the rate you describe. 
    ...

     

    Nice 1 - 2 punches there Suvroc and Valeran, doesn't leave me much else to reply with.  heh

    Other than in two months time we will all know how well the merges have gone.  And this would be a first for a MMORPG to recover after a server merge.

    And that is why...

    Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  • rojo8401rojo8401 Member Posts: 3
    Originally posted by Dracus

    Originally posted by ummax...
    I have to agree with most of what you say.   Here is an example of something similar that in fact drives me nuts and its pretty much related to what happens on this board and to people who spend their entire lives playing "critic".   
    ...

    There are some items that need to be clarified here.

    1)  MMORPG's are different than movies, due to the amount of time, effort and money invested.  As such, players feel a form of "ownership" with the game.  I own a home, a vehicle, a pet, weapons, armor, and even figurines that somehow avatars can't play with. With that players feel their feedback or opinions should have some merit.  Movies and books on the other hand are short term investments and provide no interaction.

    2) Star Wars is one of the top Sci-Fi IP's and thus has a large passionate fan base.  While everyone does have their vision of what SWG should be or could have been, there are some commonalities.  The NGE did address some of the problems, but unfortunately made sweeping changes which the majority of the player base did not want.  To further insult the player base, the player base was not consulted or notified of the possible changes; well until the changes were being put into the test servers.

    3) People do not like changes, even if the changes are good.

    4) However, with effective change management policies, people can learn to accept those changes.

    5) SOE and LA did not use any change management policy to the customers.  Unfortunately, both companies rammed the changes into the customer's throat and with a... what was it, 10 day notice?  Which then provided the perception that neither company cares not for what the customers' opinions or feedback are.  Rather, player feedback is only used for validation purposes and that both companies know what is best; not the customer.



    SWG is or was a good game (depending on which version the reader likes).  However both companies manage SWG poorly, along with poor customer service policies, as such with change management.  Since Star Wars has a passionate fan base, how SWG was managed has disenfranchised a significant amount, myself included, of fans.  And therefore, when a customer's opinion, feedback or trust is not taken into account, then the customer uses the power of the wallet by going elsewhere and spreading the news.

    Both SOE and LA can mitigate this disenfranchisment, even today with effective customer service policies.  However, given this has been over three years since the NGE and little has been done; the feud between both sides will continue, even after the shutdown of SWG.

     

    Totally agree. But your rage (all our rage) should be directed wholly at LucasArts; and more specifically George Lucas.

    Do not forget, George actually played the game, along with his daughter(s). He was not amused.  Ceature Handlers? WTF did that have to do with Star Wars merchandising? We corporate lackeys understand about licensing and when George says "make it more Star Warsy or I yank the license", you do what you're told.

    LucasArts is solely responsible for the NGE fiasco. SOE did not and does not control the license and was just as hapless as we all were. You guys need to let it go. SOE does have crappy customer service though not any worse than others.

    I  am  tired of the SWG dev hate. Those guys were very good at their jobs and created the best sandbox MMO of all time. The fact that pre-natal drivel like WOW stole many customers is more a comment on how sad our society has become and less an indictment of SWG.  Also, some of  you need to learn how corporations work or STFU.

    I do not play SWG anymore but I do respect the originality and sheer dimension of  the game and the hard work of many gifted people who were forced to mangle their baby before quitting en masse.

    SWG devs were a cut above and should be proud of their accomplishments. Period.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by rojo8401

    Originally posted by Dracus

    Originally posted by ummax...
    I have to agree with most of what you say.   Here is an example of something similar that in fact drives me nuts and its pretty much related to what happens on this board and to people who spend their entire lives playing "critic".   
    ...

    There are some items that need to be clarified here.

    1)  MMORPG's are different than movies, due to the amount of time, effort and money invested.  As such, players feel a form of "ownership" with the game.  I own a home, a vehicle, a pet, weapons, armor, and even figurines that somehow avatars can't play with. With that players feel their feedback or opinions should have some merit.  Movies and books on the other hand are short term investments and provide no interaction.

    2) Star Wars is one of the top Sci-Fi IP's and thus has a large passionate fan base.  While everyone does have their vision of what SWG should be or could have been, there are some commonalities.  The NGE did address some of the problems, but unfortunately made sweeping changes which the majority of the player base did not want.  To further insult the player base, the player base was not consulted or notified of the possible changes; well until the changes were being put into the test servers.

    3) People do not like changes, even if the changes are good.

    4) However, with effective change management policies, people can learn to accept those changes.

    5) SOE and LA did not use any change management policy to the customers.  Unfortunately, both companies rammed the changes into the customer's throat and with a... what was it, 10 day notice?  Which then provided the perception that neither company cares not for what the customers' opinions or feedback are.  Rather, player feedback is only used for validation purposes and that both companies know what is best; not the customer.



    SWG is or was a good game (depending on which version the reader likes).  However both companies manage SWG poorly, along with poor customer service policies, as such with change management.  Since Star Wars has a passionate fan base, how SWG was managed has disenfranchised a significant amount, myself included, of fans.  And therefore, when a customer's opinion, feedback or trust is not taken into account, then the customer uses the power of the wallet by going elsewhere and spreading the news.

    Both SOE and LA can mitigate this disenfranchisment, even today with effective customer service policies.  However, given this has been over three years since the NGE and little has been done; the feud between both sides will continue, even after the shutdown of SWG.

     

    Totally agree. But your rage (all our rage) should be directed wholly at LucasArts; and more specifically George Lucas.

    Do not forget, George actually played the game, along with his daughter(s). He was not amused.  Ceature Handlers? WTF did that have to do with Star Wars merchandising? We corporate lackeys understand about licensing and when George says "make it more Star Warsy or I yank the license", you do what you're told.

    LucasArts is solely responsible for the NGE fiasco. SOE did not and does not control the license and was just as hapless as we all were. You guys need to let it go. SOE does have crappy customer service though not any worse than others.

    I  am  tired of the SWG dev hate. Those guys were very good at their jobs and created the best sandbox MMO of all time. The fact that pre-natal drivel like WOW stole many customers is more a comment on how sad our society has become and less an indictment of SWG.  Also, some of  you need to learn how corporations work or STFU.

    I do not play SWG anymore but I do respect the originality and sheer dimension of  the game and the hard work of many gifted people who were forced to mangle their baby before quitting en masse.

    SWG devs were a cut above and should be proud of their accomplishments. Period.

     

    Sorry that's simply not the way it happened at all, at least from all the facts as we've seen them. Got any evidence of what you are saying?

  • rojo8401rojo8401 Member Posts: 3
    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by rojo8401

    Originally posted by Dracus

    Originally posted by ummax...
    I have to agree with most of what you say.   Here is an example of something similar that in fact drives me nuts and its pretty much related to what happens on this board and to people who spend their entire lives playing "critic".   
    ...

    There are some items that need to be clarified here.

    1)  MMORPG's are different than movies, due to the amount of time, effort and money invested.  As such, players feel a form of "ownership" with the game.  I own a home, a vehicle, a pet, weapons, armor, and even figurines that somehow avatars can't play with. With that players feel their feedback or opinions should have some merit.  Movies and books on the other hand are short term investments and provide no interaction.

    2) Star Wars is one of the top Sci-Fi IP's and thus has a large passionate fan base.  While everyone does have their vision of what SWG should be or could have been, there are some commonalities.  The NGE did address some of the problems, but unfortunately made sweeping changes which the majority of the player base did not want.  To further insult the player base, the player base was not consulted or notified of the possible changes; well until the changes were being put into the test servers.

    3) People do not like changes, even if the changes are good.

    4) However, with effective change management policies, people can learn to accept those changes.

    5) SOE and LA did not use any change management policy to the customers.  Unfortunately, both companies rammed the changes into the customer's throat and with a... what was it, 10 day notice?  Which then provided the perception that neither company cares not for what the customers' opinions or feedback are.  Rather, player feedback is only used for validation purposes and that both companies know what is best; not the customer.



    SWG is or was a good game (depending on which version the reader likes).  However both companies manage SWG poorly, along with poor customer service policies, as such with change management.  Since Star Wars has a passionate fan base, how SWG was managed has disenfranchised a significant amount, myself included, of fans.  And therefore, when a customer's opinion, feedback or trust is not taken into account, then the customer uses the power of the wallet by going elsewhere and spreading the news.

    Both SOE and LA can mitigate this disenfranchisment, even today with effective customer service policies.  However, given this has been over three years since the NGE and little has been done; the feud between both sides will continue, even after the shutdown of SWG.

     

    Totally agree. But your rage (all our rage) should be directed wholly at LucasArts; and more specifically George Lucas.

    Do not forget, George actually played the game, along with his daughter(s). He was not amused.  Ceature Handlers? WTF did that have to do with Star Wars merchandising? We corporate lackeys understand about licensing and when George says "make it more Star Warsy or I yank the license", you do what you're told.

    LucasArts is solely responsible for the NGE fiasco. SOE did not and does not control the license and was just as hapless as we all were. You guys need to let it go. SOE does have crappy customer service though not any worse than others.

    I  am  tired of the SWG dev hate. Those guys were very good at their jobs and created the best sandbox MMO of all time. The fact that pre-natal drivel like WOW stole many customers is more a comment on how sad our society has become and less an indictment of SWG.  Also, some of  you need to learn how corporations work or STFU.

    I do not play SWG anymore but I do respect the originality and sheer dimension of  the game and the hard work of many gifted people who were forced to mangle their baby before quitting en masse.

    SWG devs were a cut above and should be proud of their accomplishments. Period.

     

    Sorry that's simply not the way it happened at all, at least from all the facts as we've seen them. Got any evidence of what you are saying?

     

    Do you think the game would still be around if LucasArts wasn't in control? They got the game they wanted. It's the game as it is now. If  SOE was in control they would have Koster around. Google Ralph Koster.

    The evidence is who's still standing and who's gone?

    LucasArts is still around and everyone that made the game originally -- the game we all loved -- is gone. Do the math. Lucas' cares little if the game succeeds but is more interested in protecting the franchise. The game is not succeeding and is in decline (server mergers duh) but still contributes just enough to the bottom line to keep it around.

    Again, all of the original devs are gone. There is a reason for this. They did not leave happy but they have NDAs and would be sued pretty quickly by a company just behind Disney in annual litigation if they break it. You can't badmouth former companies in the business world. This isn't Subway. You will never work again.

    The devs' silence and the game's current state are exhibits a and b.

     

     

This discussion has been closed.