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Is SWG closing anytime soon?
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Notice that I make no mentioned against developers, but of the management of both companies. Unfortunately there is a guilty of association and there are some employees who are 'proud' of SOE or have the attitude of "knowing what is best." So they do get the flack or fallout, part of the occupational hazard.
Also the "hate" or however it is defined by someone, be it dislike, principles, moral beliefs, support, feud, stick it to the om nom nom; exists on both sides. And this "hate" is fought by current and former customers, rather than the companies stepping in and handling it. And that is the tragic part.
As for Lucas being involved. Yeah there is some truth there. The majority of all concepts and changes had to be ran past him. Yet SOE also had a role to play as well too. It was an interesting relationship dating back to when SOE was still Varant. Or so that was what I got from the tours and the private after-party with the developers of the first fan fest.
Good times
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
There is more to it than that. Both management teams are partners and in control. Koster however was not part of the executive management and he didn't like where SWG was going.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Notice that I make no mentioned against developers, but of the management of both companies. Unfortunately there is a guilty of association and there are some employees who are 'proud' of SOE or have the attitude of "knowing what is best." So they do get the flack or fallout, part of the occupational hazard.
Also the "hate" or however it is defined by someone, be it dislike, principles, moral beliefs, support, feud, stick it to the om nom nom; exists on both sides. And this "hate" is fought by current and former customers, rather than the companies stepping in and handling it. And that is the tragic part.
As for Lucas being involved. Yeah there is some truth there. The majority of all concepts and changes had to be ran past him. Yet SOE also had a role to play as well too. It was an interesting relationship dating back to when SOE was still Varant. Or so that was what I got from the tours and the private after-party with the developers of the first fan fest.
Good times
I asked not long ago (maybe 6 months tops this last summer) Why no one blames lucas arts and they have to hold a very large portion of the responsibility. I also asked why people refuse to play SWG but still buy and enjoy and patronize the offline games that lucas arts makes and even the games like the original kotor etc and dont bat an eyelid. I got flamed to hell for asking actually flamed beyond words and it was quite an eye opener at the time. People were quite adamant at the time that lucas arts played a very teeny tiny roll. They of course obviously play more then a teeny tiny roll, but its convenient to flame sony and focus on them and so people seem to. Bottom line everyone pretty much refused to acknowledge much if any roll at all lucas arts plays in what goes on in the past or present. I said before and I will say it again. Yes they changed a game and were working on an engine, but these people were employed by a company to build a game. No one ever seems to be able to fathom or reason why they were creating a new combat system in the first place. Developers are not payed to create things for no reason someone had to ask them too change it and someone had to ask sony to change it because if these requests were not made the game would remain with the original ungangly proffessions and the original design which was complicated and not particularly much like star wars. The present game isn't like starwars to me either and the reason i play it is not because it is star wars I play it because of the open environment and that is the only reason I stuck around. If i was looking for starwars and only concerned with that I would have stopped playing the game about 15 minutes after i logged in for the first time in 2003.
As for the present game as everyone keeps saying lucas arts is gonna have the final say and as long as the thing pulls in cash there isn't really a reason to pull the plug on it. Someone mentioned that if sony drops the game that someone else would pick it up. I doubt that and I also doubt that sony will drop the game. Its their red headed step child but I also see something that has not occured for awhile with this game. There is movement even with the server merges there is a forward movement. For almost 3 years the game sat and no one really did a lot with it. They didn't fix their nge or do much of anything and then suddenly it started to progress again. Then they added the dreaded TCG. I look at other game sony has like matrix online. I see it sitting with no forward momentum of any kind. Yet sony is making progress and has even purchased another game. With the forward momentum that I am seeing now in the last year I dont see that this game is going backwards. I"M not sure its growing either, but I dont see that its shrinking like everything else with SWG it simply took a hell of a long time to actually fix the problem and then suddnely there it is its fixed and the servers that should have been merged now years ago were merged just recently. If this game were truly at deaths doorstep why would the effort be put into a TCG more content and a free character transfer server with resources at all. This is not "sunsetting" and someone has given sony the go ahead to add a TCG that someone was lucas arts. This does not tell me that the relationship with lucas arts and sony is ending or that SWG is ending. It says the opposite to me.
I stil want to know why people are buying the lucas arts stand alone pc games though and refusing to play SWG the same people gave the orders over the years and the same company is responsible for it so logic says if you can't stand sony products you should be giving lucas art the same amount of bile and venom and giving them a dime either, but that's not the case in most instances. IN fact a lot of people make very large attempts to seperate the two and rationalize their support and purchasing of pc games from lucas arts.
Is that message of yours addressed to me by the use of "you" or does "you" imply towards the members in general here? And you are attempting, correction, have done, an alpha strike within one post; multiple topics to multiple entities. As such it lacks focus. What is the point you are attempting to make and to whom is it targeted at?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Players naturally gravitate towards each other in an MMORPG, after the NGE PvE combat was so messed up that all high level content could be easily solo'd.
Chapter 6 addressed this and made grouping with others essential for high level PvE. On some servers, players had trouble finding others to run this content with (the existing community tools for finding others were very poor at this time, and were not improved until Chapter 10) and they started to move to higher population servers, some paying to move their characters and some just re-rolling on more populated servers.
This continued and spiralled until the general population of SWG was skewed across the top 13 servers, leaving 12 servers of players that wanted to move but were unable to move due to current restrictions on the Paid CTS (unlocked slot, resources etc) or just the cost of the service.
SoE addressed all these concerns for those players, and they all moved.
The Server Population Imbalance was primarily caused by a snowball effect of players gravitating towards each other and leaving a vacuum in their wake, the Free CTS has addressed this issue for a large majority of players.
With SWG a busy and growing game, it is my hope that these "Transfer from" servers can rebuld themselves and I am actively trying to support the small communities that remain on these servers.
Players naturally gravitate towards each other in an MMORPG, after the NGE PvE combat was so messed up that all high level content could be easily solo'd.
Chapter 6 addressed this and made grouping with others essential for high level PvE. On some servers, players had trouble finding others to run this content with (the existing community tools for finding others were very poor at this time, and were not improved until Chapter 10) and they started to move to higher population servers, some paying to move their characters and some just re-rolling on more populated servers.
This continued and spiralled until the general population of SWG was skewed across the top 13 servers, leaving 12 servers of players that wanted to move but were unable to move due to current restrictions on the Paid CTS (unlocked slot, resources etc) or just the cost of the service.
SoE addressed all these concerns for those players, and they all moved.
The Server Population Imbalance was primarily caused by a snowball effect of players gravitating towards each other and leaving a vacuum in their wake, the Free CTS has addressed this issue for a large majority of players.
With SWG a busy and growing game, it is my hope that these "Transfer from" servers can rebuld themselves and I am actively trying to support the small communities that remain on these servers.
Seeing how you have an active account why not make a post on the Oboards to get imput from more active players? I'd be very interested to see any responses with their opinions on whether SWG is as "busy as ever".
Players naturally gravitate towards each other in an MMORPG, after the NGE PvE combat was so messed up that all high level content could be easily solo'd.
Chapter 6 addressed this and made grouping with others essential for high level PvE. On some servers, players had trouble finding others to run this content with (the existing community tools for finding others were very poor at this time, and were not improved until Chapter 10) and they started to move to higher population servers, some paying to move their characters and some just re-rolling on more populated servers.
This continued and spiralled until the general population of SWG was skewed across the top 13 servers, leaving 12 servers of players that wanted to move but were unable to move due to current restrictions on the Paid CTS (unlocked slot, resources etc) or just the cost of the service.
SoE addressed all these concerns for those players, and they all moved.
The Server Population Imbalance was primarily caused by a snowball effect of players gravitating towards each other and leaving a vacuum in their wake, the Free CTS has addressed this issue for a large majority of players.
With SWG a busy and growing game, it is my hope that these "Transfer from" servers can rebuld themselves and I am actively trying to support the small communities that remain on these servers.
So declining subs had nothing to do with the want for free transfers?
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
In response to the OP question Smedley stated when TOR was announced that SWG would remain open based on subscription numbers after the release of TOR.
I have a thread running on the official forums right now regarding this issue that you might enjoy.
On April 3rd: Double XP for "Transfer from" servers, please!
Players have different perceptions of how well SWG is growing based on a variety of factors.
A player that spends most of their time doing PvP and Heroics may not see as many new and returning players as someone who enjoys spending their game time helping those new and returning players, but for me, having been around for five years I see SWG doing very well indeed.
SWG still has a long way to go to be a complete product, it desperately needs a GCW/PvP update. Hopefully that is coming soon and will bring with it even more players.
You know badger I have to admire your dedication. Want to try Lord of the Rings Online?
Wait... wait... what... there are... OTHER GAMES? :O
I have a thread running on the official forums right now regarding this issue that you might enjoy.
On April 3rd: Double XP for "Transfer from" servers, please!
Players have different perceptions of how well SWG is growing based on a variety of factors.
A player that spends most of their time doing PvP and Heroics may not see as many new and returning players as someone who enjoys spending their game time helping those new and returning players, but for me, having been around for five years I see SWG doing very well indeed.
SWG still has a long way to go to be a complete product, it desperately needs a GCW/PvP update. Hopefully that is coming soon and will bring with it even more players.
I saw that thread Badger, but I didn't see where you mentioned to everyone that the servers are busier then ever.
Did I miss something?
I just had a thought regarding this issue Badger.
If I remember correctly SoE announced early on that 500K units of SWG were sold. Assuming for a moment that virtually all of those bought units were used at that time (I doubt many people would buy a new MMO to put on a shelf unused for long) then we can calculate 500K divided by 3 months gives us a bare minimum of 166.6K active subscribers at a single time.
Are you claiming that there are 166.6K active subscribers at this time?
From what I've seen of the various histories, SWG numbers started declining within a short time of the games launch, hitting a low point before CU came out. After CU hit the numbers started going back up until NGE totalled the player base. After that point it's a toss up if numbers are going up, down or just turning over new players for old.
I do know I'm seeing lower level toon's in game but couldn't tell you if they're re-rolls or newbies. I did see a level 32 last night that said they were a returning player so there must be some coming in.
As far as the server transfers go; as a previous post stated, they were needed a long time ago. Unfortunitly server mergers are seen as the kiss of death by management, plus why do something for free when you can charge from $50.00 to $100.00 and get the players to pay for it?
Why they did it now is hard to say, but they did do it and those popular servers are better than ever numbers-wise while alot of the others are now sucking. You could argue that they had too many servers from day 1 or it should have happened long ago or whatever.
My guess is now that the first move is done, we'll see more down the road as the players that didn't want to or couldn't move will want to now. The folding in effect has started and will hopefully continue so the remaining (however many) servers will have full player bases so those that wish to play, will be able to.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Is that message of yours addressed to me by the use of "you" or does "you" imply towards the members in general here? And you are attempting, correction, have done, an alpha strike within one post; multiple topics to multiple entities. As such it lacks focus. What is the point you are attempting to make and to whom is it targeted at?
I am taking part in the discussion if you can't figure it out I"m not worrying about it. People on here get mad at you if you snip out stuff. Others get mad at you if you leave it al there. Its impossible to please everyone here. I used to only quote but I was replying to lucas arts involvement. I asked on these boards in a thread I created why no one places at least equal blame on lucas arts. You is both singular or plural. Its a general comment made towards the thread. What point do you think I"m trying to make if any? Did you read YOU the singlar person read what I said? I asked what does that mean? I got flamed when asking what do YOU the singular think that means. What does the question mean? Are you an alt of one of the trolls on this forum doing a drive by cause I have to ask when a discussion is going normally why someone would suddenly speak this way on a message board where everyone is putting in their two cents. I think you need to read the post again it was pretty clear what I said. What does one do when one posts a questions to these boards? If i was asking you and only you and only discussing with you then I would just send you a pm.
The forum they started with at launch had if i can remember millions of members. They sold millions of copies yet only a few hundred thousand logged in (less then a million). From that few hundred thousand only (what in comparison to what should have happened ) a handful actualy stayed 200-300k depending upon the source you quote (at launch) from there it declined further and after 12 months the population decline was on many servers quite obvious. By the time the CU hit and before it hit the hustling bustling centers were only hustling and bustling at prime time and the rest of the time there was no one around. It was actually pretty eeery. Cu made it worse and NGE made it even worse. However like many I was gone just at the CU. I was in the process of closing my account when the CU was introduced. I had moved to lineage 2 and was playing WoW and SWG was just an afterthought. I wasn't even playing this game when NGE hit. I Logged in once long after so see what was what and it was unplayable for some reason someone fixed it. Also is anyone aware that free CTS is actually something that sony does in eq2? The have had one of those already plus a server merge. I remember the server merge as everyone was screaming. So the next time they reduced their servers they offered a free CTS instead. Sony seems to have moved to these and I can see why. People made a whole lot less of a fuss when they did it. As it turns out in that case I was always on the receiving end of the traffic in both cases. I'm considering moving to a server closer to where I live for the next one offered (if they offer another one again) just for a lower ping.
The forum they started with at launch had if i can remember millions of members. They sold millions of copies yet only a few hundred thousand logged in (less then a million). From that few hundred thousand only (what in comparison to what should have happened ) a handful actualy stayed 200-300k depending upon the source you quote (at launch) from there it declined further and after 12 months the population decline was on many servers quite obvious. By the time the CU hit and before it hit the hustling bustling centers were only hustling and bustling at prime time and the rest of the time there was no one around. It was actually pretty eeery. Cu made it worse and NGE made it even worse. However like many I was gone just at the CU. I was in the process of closing my account when the CU was introduced. I had moved to lineage 2 and was playing WoW and SWG was just an afterthought. I wasn't even playing this game when NGE hit. I Logged in once long after so see what was what and it was unplayable for some reason someone fixed it. Also is anyone aware that free CTS is actually something that sony does in eq2? The have had one of those already plus a server merge. I remember the server merge as everyone was screaming. So the next time they reduced their servers they offered a free CTS instead. Sony seems to have moved to these and I can see why. People made a whole lot less of a fuss when they did it. As it turns out in that case I was always on the receiving end of the traffic in both cases. I'm considering moving to a server closer to where I live for the next one offered (if they offer another one again) just for a lower ping.
Up to January of '06 just over 1 million copies were sold. So I would estimate about a 1:4 to 1:5 retention rate.
http://www.mixnmojo.com/php/site/gamedb.php?gameid=132
I'm trying to find the official announcement from this time but I'm not having much luck in finding it. But I do remember that announcment quite vividly.
Like everyone else who doesn't work for SoE and is not privvy to such numbers, I have no idea.
I can only go by what I see in game and my experience of SWG over the last five years.
So if I get this right, the problem was not of low subscribers, but rather a stable player base which were moving towards populated servers. The shutting down of the low populated servers is only to conserve resources and save money, until there is sufficient growth of the population to reopen those servers.
Is this correct? I would like to make sure this is certain before responding.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Debating is a form of chess.
I thought my response to your message was quite obvious. To have you confirm your point or points before I went with a reply. Akin to "for the record."
As for being an Alt or a Troll, nice use of baiting, but a no-go. I've been on these forums for some time, longer than you (singular).
Now that I know where you (singular) stand, I will reread your (singular possessive) posts, respond to them and point out the flaws. For example how the use of absolutes and self explanations weakens one's argument.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
This may be the announcement or not, but at least it is one that does state over one million. (Aug 2005)
Link:
LucasArts Announces New Star Wars Galaxies Expansion Pack As Franchise Unit Sales Surpass One Million
www.lucasarts.com/company/release/news20050819.html
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Debating is a form of chess.
I thought my response to your message was quite obvious. To have you confirm your point or points before I went with a reply. Akin to "for the record."
As for being an Alt or a Troll, nice use of baiting, but a no-go. I've been on these forums for some time, longer than you (singular).
Now that I know where you (singular) stand, I will reread your (singular possessive) posts, respond to them and point out the flaws. For example how the use of absolutes and self explanations weakens one's argument.
yeah a lot of people seem to think that every response in a thread is a "debate". I have and will state again that I really dont debate. I state my opinion some guy agrees and I then may more may not depending on the weather and how borred I am getting with the conversation respond. So since I tend to use personal experience I suppose that for many that makes me a lousy debater. I tend to "loose" debates on this forum often and totaly unaware that I was actually arguing with anyone in the first place or trying to "win" anything. What I said is what I said. I asked the question not long ago 6-8 months about why does no one place at least equal blame on lucas arts and why do people still purchase lucas arts games like the stand alone pc games or even the bioware ones since they do have a fair involvment in the actual game creation process. Its simply a statement I made and the response as usual was puzzling.
meanwhile since I"m not debating I guess I "lost" dunno. It was a simple statement made as a follow up comments to someone elses statement about lucas arts having some say in what happened to the game and why the changes took place at all.
I think that in some cases people would have had more success if they left sony out of the picture and went directly to lucas arts, but as usual that is just my opinion.
Anyhow I"m taking my insomnia and attempting to fall asleep again. Hopefuly I can stop working nights soon and not have to find something to do at 4 a.m. my time like say find something of interest to speak of on a message board.
p.s. Hopefuly i will find a new hobby soon when I dont feel like playing a computer game and watching tv that does not involve conversations about a game which is 5 years old and who is to blame for what, cause I have to say I get sucked in everytime to this stupid cyclical discussion which at this point in time is rather old, warnour and I can't even find the dead horse that was beaten as the bones have turned to dust and blown away in the wind...
Like everyone else who doesn't work for SoE and is not privvy to such numbers, I have no idea.
I can only go by what I see in game and my experience of SWG over the last five years.
Except math doesn't lie. The weak link in my equation is whether or not SoE was telling the truth or not.
Players wanted to be given the choice of what server they played their characters on, SoE gave this to them and it has been a very popular move.
Players are returning, moving to high population servers and having a great time.
Are you a PR robot for $0E?
Players wanted to be given the choice of what server they played their characters on, SoE gave this to them and it has been a very popular move.
Players are returning, moving to high population servers and having a great time.
Are you a PR robot for $0E?
<Mod Edit>
Glad you guys are having fun badger. The wife keeps at me to re-up my All Access to play EQ2 with her(EQer myself). Intend to check out a little SWG the next time I do to see if I finally like it.
Never have...but for those that do hopefully it is getting enough folks around for those major PvP battles folks like to have.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.