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How can an atheist explain their point of view on religion, without a religious person getting defen
Axum
Member Posts: 891
I am just curious.
I've been trying to explain my thoughts to one of my friends, and it is growing more and more into a heated battle, rather than a discussion. Any advice?
Comments
Just give up on it with him, some people just aren't very open to other religions or beliefs, beyond battling it out with them, theirs not a whole lot you can do except drop the subject.
"I don't believe in a god, however, you're welcome to and I won't fight you about it."
Now with 57.3% more flames!
If it's turning into a heated battle than it's probably best to drop the subject. Not everybody is able to have a decent conversation about such personal subjects.
Other than just walking away? I'm afraid that more explanation is necessary for an answer to that...you can't just say that they get defensive without saynig what exactly caused them to get defensive.
and please, no "I'm completely innocent" attempts here...normal people don't just get argumentative over polite and civil discussion...one of you must be touching a nerve somewhere.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
It is really on both sides of the issue. Whenever I mention something about Christianity, an Athiest always...and I mean ALWAYS pop out of the wood work and explain why I am wrong and misguided.
If you two are firends and there is a heated battle and you want to covert him into Atheism and he wants to convert you to his religion, then drop the discussion or you will loose your friend.
When I went from an Athiest to a Christian, I lost MANY athiest friends because they wouldn't stop and I wouldn't. Just let it go.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Will do.
I just seem to look at is as more of a science in itself.
I.E. The evolution of beliefs.
I've read quite a few "Holy texts" myself, and have found many interesting similarities.
Thanks everyone.
What i did, was post my beliefs about religion on a rant blog i have on myspace.
They just started to counter some of my points.
"First Christianity:
Part
A of my conclusion is : If there is a god, and a heaven, and you do not
believe in either, you will not be punished in any way.
Is this god not supposed to be the "Merciful God"?
So there is no vice in not participating in any kind of worship.
Part
B of my conclusion: If Jesus really gave his life for you, than he
would rather see you live it to the fullest, than spend your time
thanking him.
For, if Jesus was so humble and omnipotent as
some may claim, than he would deny the need for hours of your life
every week be committed to him.
Part C of my conclusion: Those
who live life constructively and do not worship, will be placed in line
for salvation in front of those who worship but then continue to lie
and dishonor themselves.
Those who call themselves Christians,
worship, and then go and sin the other six days of the week will be
seen as untrustworthy in the eyes of god. For they commit themselves to
him, but then turn their backs on him, asking for forgiveness week
after week."
We have an absolute winner here.
This is good news! May I hear your testimoney? You can PM me or post here if you like.
This is exactly what you posted? These are all quite common questions and issues that non-Christians have with believers...I'm not going to answer them because you didn't ask for an answer, but if this is all that you posted and your friend is getting up in arms about it rather than just trying to answer you honestly, then there is something else at play here...Somehow I doubt that you posted this and your friend just hauled off and got pissed at you.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
That is where it began at least
here is where it went after that
Him : hmmm
i read the religion part again...
the whole, doing hours of stuff?
a) its only an hour a week, at MOST
b) its showing our love back to God and Jesus
the 3 main ideas of "my religion" are
1) it revolves around free will and love..for God, and your fellow man
-they go hand in hand, bc without free will, there is no love (why God wont "force you" to love him)
2) The Bible, not ever meant to be read as a history or science book... Though, we do belive it IS true in revealing RELIGIOUS truths, and things that are needed for out salvation (#1 again)
3) ALL are equal, and ALL have chance to be united with God in a loving union, bc God is merciful and WANTS to forgive us (because of love for creation) but if we dont want to love him, he wont force us, because it wouldnt be love...
sorry, just couldnt resist throwin that out there... "
Me: "More people who go to church get involved with things at the church than you assume. I remember when i went to church it was at least 2 hours a week. Yea, that might not be much but look. Over 20 years that is 2080 hours or 87 days worth of time doing something that you should be able to do on your own. Wouldn't it be more personal if you talked to him and prayed to him on your own? Rather than in a big group, scripted event? I mean, that's my main pet peeve with religion at the moment."
Him "well, remember how i said the bible wasnt meant to be read for historical events or scientific truths?
well it HAS truths for things for our salvation and religious truths
-one of those things was that man was made WITH woman (in the first creation story)
-and in the 2nd creation story, God created the animals to be companions for man
meaning were not meant to be alone"
I really, honestly don't know how he jumped topics like that...but somehow it went that way.
Aye, aye, aye....
Accepting the fact that this world is "Indefinitely" EVIL is denying the possibility that it could become "GOOD". Life is only what you make of it! If you wish to believe that you should hate yourself for being human, and spend your whole life devoting yourself to a greater being, then do so. Be happy, feel content. All the more to you.
Why would the being who created, and designed you punish you for your ignorance?
If you were to fault, and decide not to believe in the god who created you, it is no one's fault but the God's.
It's kind of like creating a program.
If it does not work properly, don't blame the computer, blame yourself.
I am going to say it. Evolution is a religion. It's a belief, its not proven. But then one asks, who is the God figure? Well, that is you. Because your loath in your self. Because you have no accountablity to no one.
Oh, you wil find out your destiny when you die and meet your maker. Yes the world can become good, but will it? Will we ever have peace? NO. Why? Because this world is full of greed. Anyone would stab a friend in the back to get what they need according to thier "dream" or more money or to enhance themselves. In the book of Galatians it states that our own nature is evil because we are seperated from God.
Just because you do not worship a greater being does not make you an ignorant narcissist.
Just because you do not worship a greater being does not make you an ignorant narcissist.
No, it just means that they are lost. Remember you asked about the Illuminati in a PM? Research them some more and see how Christianity is relevant.
I think you need to comprehend both sides of the coin before you can truely conclude.
Just because you do not worship a greater being does not make you an ignorant narcissist.
No, it just means that they are lost. Remember you asked about the Illuminati in a PM? Research them some more and see how Christianity is relevant.
So your saying you want a Christian run socialist world?
From what i researched that is their ultimate aim, to use religion and money to control the world.
Just because you do not worship a greater being does not make you an ignorant narcissist.
No, it just means that they are lost. Remember you asked about the Illuminati in a PM? Research them some more and see how Christianity is relevant.
So your saying you want a Christian run socialist world?
lol...Christianity is all about freedom of choice. Socialism is all about the government choosing FOR you. I would not ever want a Christian run socialist world...and that's coming from a strong believer.
I'd much rather just wait for Jesus to come back. He'll sort all the crap out.
socialism is the jailor of freedom and choice. Any Christian who supports it needs to look carefully at the Bible. Our duty here on earth is to save people and show them Christ, as well as live christianly lives...not FORCE others to be Christian. You can't force someone to believe something.
That being said...you should never give up on someone. It might seem like some Christians are forcing their beliefs onto atheists, but sometimes they are just persistent people that really care about you
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Just because you do not worship a greater being does not make you an ignorant narcissist.
No, it just means that they are lost. Remember you asked about the Illuminati in a PM? Research them some more and see how Christianity is relevant.
So your saying you want a Christian run socialist world?
From what i researched that is their ultimate aim, to use religion and money to control the world.
Huh, a Christian socialist? Uh no. They will use religion, and it will be harnessed from the catholics, not the protistants.
While you are right that his reply had little to do with what you posted...I don't really see him getting defensive or argumentative....is that all there was to the discussion?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
here's the rest
"I don't want to debate for hours upon end, because in the end we are both only speculating, but i will make my last point real quick. This isn't meant to make you question your religion, but only look at it differently.
Back when the Romans existed, they worshiped many gods, and believed that it was they who caused certain "Unexplainable" events to happen. The explanation we are given for this is that they worshiped them solely because they would not explain it.
Now we just sit back and laugh at them, because we have "technology" and "science" that can explain most of the things they blamed on the gods. Thus, destroying the foundations of that religion.
So, how would that rule NOT apply to all the religions of today? As a race we have not progressed much really, we are still violence-loving lustful beings, but that is just in our nature.
Sure we may be able to categorize, and attempt to "comprehend" things, but in all reality NOTHING has changed! Chariot races have evolved into Nascar, Gladiatorial Events into Boxing. More Civil and Humane? I dare say not.
Instead of being straightforward with our nature, we are beginning to become more tacitile, or sneaky as a race. Lies and Money rule everything we know. There are thousands of people being subdued right in front of our nose, but we can't even see it, because the people whom do it are in control of everything.
Instead of killing someone instantly, we force them into thirty years of exile. Which is worse?
Now, that being said, if we have really not advanced mentality wise, than what makes our religions any different than theirs?
If you step back and look at it they all explain the few things we have yet to discover via science. Life, Death, and Life after death.
Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity, Muslim, Jewism, Hinduism, Shinto, and Confucianism all revolve around these three "issues".
Now if you, as a Christian, can so whole-heartedly believe that your "God" is real. What are you going to say to the other 5 Billion people in the world? Are you just going to say all the holy text you have is wrong, because mine is obviously right? Theres more than enough evidence regarding the origins of each and every one of these religions. Which is right, and which is wrong?
Even if there was an answer, how would it benefit anyone to know it?
Religion is almost like a brick wall between your mind and foreign ideas. It may help many people live a content life, and i really hope you do, it's just you have to look at the implications of actually following a religion."
Him "
mmm
not quite my friend..
science and religion dont have to conflict
and what exactly is WRONG about helping your fellow man, and wanting nothing more FOR them, is for love(complete giving of yourself to another)"
That's where imo the defensiveness starts.
As a Catholic I don't have a problem with an atheist expressing their point of view.
What I have a problem with is when they try to say I can't even practice or just try to invoke actions that are intentionally removing the right to practice thereof. I'm not trying to deny their practice.
Someone can debate religion or non religion till the cows come home if they avoid the above part.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
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I have a question, since you are a Catholic. Do you agree with your Pope saying that evolution helped the diversity of us and things? I say this because, it clearly says in the bible, there was no death, before the sin of Adam and Eve. If Benedict does indeed believe in evolution or even so believes that it helped, he is counterdicting the bible. Right?
Here is a link: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/04/pope_benedict_b.html
The article seems to have some who dispute as if it's what the Pope actually said or meant. I don't mind answering the question though but I will try to answer from my own perspective as a Catholic.
This seems to be about intelligent design. I'd agree through observation that one can see a higher entity has created this all.
Sun-->photosynthesis to plants-->animals-->decompision-->cycle repeats. I know someone's going to bring up that below the ocean life flourishes but even it has an order. Our bodies remind me so much of a human creation the computer. Brain (CPU), Motherboard (Heart), Eyes (GPU), Arteries (Bus), Hard Drive (stomach).
It's funny how we can create just like something had to create us.
I'm getting off track here. To sum up I think science addresses the answers of how God did things, as we can understand them, and religion answers the why.
To address the "no death" in Adam and Eve's timeline we have to ask: Can you evolve as an immortal? What do we mean about evolving? We'll never be able to answer the first question as Adam and Eve were kicked out of paradise and lost that immortatlity for falling under the sway/seduction of evil.
Been awhile since I read the Old Testament so who knows if I'm right or wrong.
Edit: I just want to add that the quest for improvement is important. It fights the lingering sin of envy which stagnation in improvements brings on. For as we're stagnating we're jealous of other's successes.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth