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Did I hear right that SOE nerfed one of their RMT items?
ArcAngel3
Member Posts: 2,931
I heard that people gambled for the loot card diner because it gave bonuses to crafters. Then I heard that after people gambled for it, and won, SOE removed the bonus; is that accurate?
Comments
I'm not seeing anything on it.
"You've been SOE'd!"
This doesn't sound like a complete SOE scheme...
This could only be true if they are planning to put a new item with those bonuses into the RMT pool now that they have stripped those bonuses from the items that people have already gambled for. That would be a complete SOE scheme. Unless of course smed is just getting lazy in his old age(The darkside has caused considerable decay in his vitality)
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I wish I was in charge of SWG... woulda done a better job by actually keeping the Pre CU game.
Ah, the full story here:
http://www.mmofringe.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=716&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Good journalism
.
It seems like SOE did have people gamble for the diner, that it did give crafting bonuses, and that there was a nerf of the bonus on Test Centre. It also seems that crafters raised hell on the official forums, and that SOE blinked. It seems that they're not so sure that this nerf is a good idea after all.
I should say not. Just imagine the outcry over gambling for loot items, winning, and then losing the bonus you gambled for. Nice work crafters, good consumer advocacy if you ask me ^_^. Always keep one eye on the Smed and don't drop the soap.
P.S. for Miagisan, the link to the official board is in the O.P. on the fringe site if you just want the link for information's sake. No pressure from me though eh, I think I summarized it accurately.
i would have read it, until i noticed the site....no thank you....i avoid fanatics
Basically, once you unbalance things via an item mall, you can never go back?
This is the sort of thing that makes RTM tricky. One should consider the item in question as "real" and having real value, as one paid "real" money for it. The manufacturer (SOE) cannot retroactively reduce its value, in much the same way a car dealer cannot remove a stereo from a car you purchased, after the fact. There is legal precedence to support this view.
SOE wants to be careful here.
This is the sort of thing that makes RTM tricky. One should consider the item in question as "real" and having real value, as one paid "real" money for it. The manufacturer (SOE) cannot retroactively reduce its value, in much the same way a car dealer cannot remove a stereo from a car you purchased, after the fact. There is legal precedence to support this view.
SOE wants to be careful here.
Bingo ^_^.
Also regarding things getting unbalanced via an item mall: if some kind of rebalance is attempted, it certainly shouldn't be done by reducing the value of the purchased item retroactively. This makes the rebalance extremely tricky I should think, which happens to be one of the many, many reasons I think item malls should not offer performance enhancements, especially in a subscription based game.
This is the sort of thing that makes RTM tricky. One should consider the item in question as "real" and having real value, as one paid "real" money for it. The manufacturer (SOE) cannot retroactively reduce its value, in much the same way a car dealer cannot remove a stereo from a car you purchased, after the fact. There is legal precedence to support this view.
SOE wants to be careful here.
Bingo ^_^.
Also regarding things getting unbalanced via an item mall: if some kind of rebalance is attempted, it certainly shouldn't be done by reducing the value of the purchased item retroactively. This makes the rebalance extremely tricky I should think, which happens to be one of the many, many reasons I think item malls should not offer performance enhancements, especially in a subscription based game.
Frankly I hope they are NOT careful about it, and the whole steaming pile gets a nice, long, careful, looking at by the appropriate authorities. Then, we'll see how legal the whole deal is....
This is the sort of thing that makes RTM tricky. One should consider the item in question as "real" and having real value, as one paid "real" money for it. The manufacturer (SOE) cannot retroactively reduce its value, in much the same way a car dealer cannot remove a stereo from a car you purchased, after the fact. There is legal precedence to support this view.
SOE wants to be careful here.
Bingo ^_^.
Also regarding things getting unbalanced via an item mall: if some kind of rebalance is attempted, it certainly shouldn't be done by reducing the value of the purchased item retroactively. This makes the rebalance extremely tricky I should think, which happens to be one of the many, many reasons I think item malls should not offer performance enhancements, especially in a subscription based game.
Frankly I hope they are NOT careful about it, and the whole steaming pile gets a nice, long, careful, looking at by the appropriate authorities. Then, we'll see how legal the whole deal is....
Well I surely can agree with those sentiments. However, this time it appears as though SOE is backing away from yet another possible public relations fiasco.
If you look at the history of their controversial moves, it seems as though they push the envelope as far as they can legally and ethically, and at the same time try to stay just under the radar.
With the NGE, they made a definite blip in that the expansion was so blatantly marketted as one thing, and then the NGE rendered it something completely different. Hence the expansion refunds to avoid allegations of "material damage" that are necessary to trigger a fraud investigation. A massive refund campaign was definitely the lesser of two evils from their point of view I would think.
With the RMT items I expect they are banking on (literally) legal ambiguity and jurisdictional overlap around issues like virtual property and what constitutes internet gambling.
If or when they fail at maintaining their envelope/radar balancing act, they'll get caught. The Federal Trade Commission and Sony already have a history together. Meanwhile it's up to consumers to spot SOE's shennanigans and steer clear.
I'm not the least bit surprised, if this is true, then that shows SOE still doesn't give a shit about what their customers buy and play. Yet some of their repeat customers (that's been around before the NGE) still refuses to learn from this kind of thing SOE tends to do over and over.
First off, I'm no fan of SOE...but I have to say, this thread is very confused.
Allow me to illuminate.
TCG is not RMT. They are not the same, even remotely. You cannot outright buy items in SWG with real cash.
You can buy cards for TCG, and sometimes win a loot card...but you can also simply buy the items from other players in the game, or win one in your monthly free cards given to all players.
No one actually gains any advantage that cannot be gotten by anyone else.
Second off, the crafting buff from the diner was not nerfed...in fact it was INCREASED.
These diners are all over the trade forums. They are not something that some people have that others cannot obtain.
There is no RMT in SWG. Sorry...you'll have to find something else to harp on.
The TCG is a sweepstakes...i.e. gambling. It is a micro transaction. The loot cards have ZERO function in the card game whatsoever. People are buying with real money a "chance" of obtaining a piece of loot they could not otherwise obtain ingame.
I beg to differ that you cannot buy SWG items with real cash. It has been going on since the game inception. Up until now SOE was not getting a piece of the pie.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
RMT has many forms. SOE's form is more of a tricky way to grab every dime possible out of player where it can form an addiction and/or life problems.
Regardless the fact of the matter is you are trading real money for virtual items regardless if you don't get the loot card full on. It's a game of RMT chance. Sure I'm sure some play the card game but most are after that loot. This exactly what SOE wanted to milk every possible penny with unfair odds of getting such loot.
Although I know nothing about the nerf or buff situation, thought I'd clear that up.
The TCG is a sweepstakes...i.e. gambling. It is a micro transaction. The loot cards have ZERO function in the card game whatsoever. People are buying with real money a "chance" of obtaining a piece of loot they could not otherwise obtain ingame.
I beg to differ that you cannot buy SWG items with real cash. It has been going on since the game inception. Up until now SOE was not getting a piece of the pie.
Ebay aside (since it cannot be considered RMT), there is no RMT in SWG. RMT would imply that there was a shop where people could directly purchase items for use in the game with real-world currency. But this is simply not the case.
In fact, TCG is a seperate game entirely. The SWG loot cards are simply a bonus.
The same cards can be obtained for free. The items themselves can be purchased in game, for game currency.
And claiming that people are "gambling" for loot cards is akin to saying people are "gambling" when they buy a McDonald's meal during a Monopoly promotion. Sure, you could buy 100000 value meals hoping to win a bike...but wouldn't it make sense to simply buy a bike??
I'm no fan of SOE...but come on...let's complain about what they actually do, instead of making shit up.
The TCG is a sweepstakes...i.e. gambling. It is a micro transaction. The loot cards have ZERO function in the card game whatsoever. People are buying with real money a "chance" of obtaining a piece of loot they could not otherwise obtain ingame.
I beg to differ that you cannot buy SWG items with real cash. It has been going on since the game inception. Up until now SOE was not getting a piece of the pie.
Ebay aside (since it cannot be considered RMT), there is no RMT in SWG. RMT would imply that there was a shop where people could directly purchase items for use in the game with real-world currency. But this is simply not the case.
In fact, TCG is a seperate game entirely. The SWG loot cards are simply a bonus.
The same cards can be obtained for free. The items themselves can be purchased in game, for game currency.
And claiming that people are "gambling" for loot cards is akin to saying people are "gambling" when they buy a McDonald's meal during a Monopoly promotion. Sure, you could buy 100000 value meals hoping to win a bike...but wouldn't it make sense to simply buy a bike??
I'm no fan of SOE...but come on...let's complain about what they actually do, instead of making shit up.
ah..but people are gambling when they play the McDonalds monopoly game. McDonalds...by law...has to publish the odds of winning.
If the TCG is separate why are the loot cards in the packs they include as part of the subscription no trade? What function do the loot cards play in the TCG?
Why is it someone in Europe cannot take part in the tournaments?
if people are purchasing ingame items, accounts via ebay then that is a RMT. There are websites you can go to to "purchase" credits and items for SWG. That is RMT. The difference now is that Sony is taking a piece of the pie.
This has been discussed her adnauseum and really doesn't need to be hashed again as you will never be able to argue with someone here and change their mind that the TCG is a RMT device.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
The TCG is a sweepstakes...i.e. gambling. It is a micro transaction. The loot cards have ZERO function in the card game whatsoever. People are buying with real money a "chance" of obtaining a piece of loot they could not otherwise obtain ingame.
I beg to differ that you cannot buy SWG items with real cash. It has been going on since the game inception. Up until now SOE was not getting a piece of the pie.
Exactly. The 'free' monthly TCG cards and possible loot are NOT exactly the same as the store bought booster packs - they are no-trade. No chance of trading a freebie item for something you really want from another player. The loot cards drive the TCG, and the loot (while most is fluff') is often much more desirable than anything available by crafter or quest in-game. This is especailly bad for SWG, where there ARE dedicated crafting professions. It is a move to grab a piece the credit buying/selling market, and it appears to be working well for $OE, as many 'lottery' type scams do. Without the loot cards, the TCG would be dead in the water for the most part.
The Diner and the Crafting Monkey got a 1+ point increase (now 6+ expermentation) to allow newer crafters that do not have access to old, pre-NGE SEA's to attain 14+ points of experimentation in crafting. The problem is, getting the crafter monkey ability is near impossible - making the diner more desirable since it is easier to get 150 million credits in-game to buy one than it is to endlessly grind for the pet ability.
The TCG is a sweepstakes...i.e. gambling. It is a micro transaction. The loot cards have ZERO function in the card game whatsoever. People are buying with real money a "chance" of obtaining a piece of loot they could not otherwise obtain ingame.
I beg to differ that you cannot buy SWG items with real cash. It has been going on since the game inception. Up until now SOE was not getting a piece of the pie.
Exactly. The 'free' monthly TCG cards and possible loot are NOT exactly the same as the store bought booster packs - they are no-trade. No chance of trading a freebie item for something you really want from another player. The loot cards drive the TCG, and the loot (while most is fluff') is often much more desirable than anything available by crafter or quest in-game. This is especailly bad for SWG, where there ARE dedicated crafting professions. It is a move to grab a piece the credit buying/selling market, and it appears to be working well for $OE, as many 'lottery' type scams do. Without the loot cards, the TCG would be dead in the water for the most part.
The Diner and the Crafting Monkey got a 1+ point increase (now 6+ expermentation) to allow newer crafters that do not have access to old, pre-NGE SEA's to attain 14+ points of experimentation in crafting. The problem is, getting the crafter monkey ability is near impossible - making the diner more desirable since it is easier to get 150 million credits in-game to buy one than it is to endlessly grind for the pet ability.
Yeah, the free cards are no-trade...but you can redeem them on any character on that account, and the loot cards aren't exactly hard to get or rare. I Just got a v-wing the other day from a free booster.
Bottom line is, some of you people are getting a bit carried away with your SOE hate. If you check my post history, you can see just how much I loathe them, and that I certainly have my reasons...but I'm not going to make mountains from mole hills, or claim they have done things that they have not. It's just silly.
And seriously...considering Ebay a system of RMT is really fucking reaching, man.
The TCG is a sweepstakes...i.e. gambling. It is a micro transaction. The loot cards have ZERO function in the card game whatsoever. People are buying with real money a "chance" of obtaining a piece of loot they could not otherwise obtain ingame.
I beg to differ that you cannot buy SWG items with real cash. It has been going on since the game inception. Up until now SOE was not getting a piece of the pie.
Exactly. The 'free' monthly TCG cards and possible loot are NOT exactly the same as the store bought booster packs - they are no-trade. No chance of trading a freebie item for something you really want from another player. The loot cards drive the TCG, and the loot (while most is fluff') is often much more desirable than anything available by crafter or quest in-game. This is especailly bad for SWG, where there ARE dedicated crafting professions. It is a move to grab a piece the credit buying/selling market, and it appears to be working well for $OE, as many 'lottery' type scams do. Without the loot cards, the TCG would be dead in the water for the most part.
The Diner and the Crafting Monkey got a 1+ point increase (now 6+ expermentation) to allow newer crafters that do not have access to old, pre-NGE SEA's to attain 14+ points of experimentation in crafting. The problem is, getting the crafter monkey ability is near impossible - making the diner more desirable since it is easier to get 150 million credits in-game to buy one than it is to endlessly grind for the pet ability.
Yeah, the free cards are no-trade...but you can redeem them on any character on that account, and the loot cards aren't exactly hard to get or rare. I Just got a v-wing the other day from a free booster.
Bottom line is, some of you people are getting a bit carried away with your SOE hate. If you check my post history, you can see just how much I loathe them, and that I certainly have my reasons...but I'm not going to make mountains from mole hills, or claim they have done things that they have not. It's just silly.
And seriously...considering Ebay a system of RMT is really fucking reaching, man.
The cards are not free...they are included in your subscription fee.
How is ebay reaching? Do people not pay real money for the items? What is your definition of RMT then?
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I think your sig is proof enough that arguing with you about anything SOE would be a waste of my time.
And, in fact, my goal here was not even to change your mind.
Simply to point out that this trhead was wrong in more than one way.
If we're gonna SOE bash, at least let's do so with accuracy and integrity.
Please point out what was inaccurate in what I posted. I can support it with facts.
One could infer from your sig that you have an unhealthy fetish with undead chicks but I won't hold that against you.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Sorry Wargh0ul but that sounds like a copout from the issues that were brought up. This debate has been argued to a fine point before and you barely scratched the surface.
And seeing as Arc brought this thread to us, he'd be the last person on this board I would accuse of lack of intergrity. Seen more thought provoking and detailed posts out of him here and elsewhere than most of the posters that roam here. You would be hard pressed to find more than a handful of players who would argue with that statement alone.
People purchase virtual cards with Real Money, and it is a Transaction. Hence the term RMT.
People are also purchasing a chance to win a SWG loot item with Real Money directly from the Sony online store; once again, hence the term RMT.
In simple terms, people pay real money to get a chance at an ingame item. If someone does not pay real money for one of these items, they are not available for purchase via ingame currency. The cards included with the subscription fee are not tradeable. They cannot be sold.
It is real money for virtual items. Even the trading cards themselves are virtual items. Saying there is no RMT seems to necessitate changing the meaning the term completely.
Also, if you would have read the thread carefully, you would have seen that the diner nerf was on test, that current players raised understandable concerns, and that the nerf was then not pushed live. In other words this was a sleazy move by SOE that players caught before it went live, and good for them.
Maybe that clears things up for you. It's a unique RMT model to be sure, and less customer friendly than all others I'm familiar with, but it certainly is RMT, and the diner nerf was certainly on TC.
Those aren't really opinions either, they're verifiable facts. The only thing open to opinion is whether or not you think SOE's move was full of sleaze. Also, it was current players that raised concerns about this, and rightly so; so accusations of unnecessary harping made against former players are unfounded. At this point, I'm merely highlighting the issue and commending current players for making themselves heard--a small miracle, I think, with SOE.
P.S. A link to the story on another site is in post number 6. An SWG fan's point of view is represented in that thread by Badger. You could also find the relevant thread on the official boards, unless they decided to mod it. Also, as someone else mentioned, there are a number of threads highlighting differences between SOE's RMT loot gamble and product promotionals like McDonald's. You can save yourself an unnecessary rehash if you want to search those out. Up to you of course.
TCG IS RMT, people are paying money to find the loot they want (like the beast master barn or something)- doesn't matter if it's not a direct store item, it's still RMT.