The game released feature complete in regards to what an INFORMED commuity member would expect (except 4 legs run mahirim and individual housing)
I just love these arrogant replies from hyper-defensive fans of a game. The complete disregard of common-sense never ceases to amaze me.
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to go to a website, see a list of features, and assume that they represent what is in the game. They need not be any more "INFORMED" than that.
The HONEST thing a RESPONSIBLE company would have done was remove items that had since been pushed back or otherwise removed from the features list. It is MISLEADING to keep them up there, making people who want to get some info on the game to believe there's a lot more there than there really is. They should have updated and modified the list as decisions and changes were made so their website represented the game they were actually making, not the game they wanted people to believe they would be buying.
It is not the CUSTOMER'S responsibility to dig for the most recent and accurate information. It's the DEVELOPER'S responsibility to provide accurate and recent information. Everything a person interested in a game should need to know about a game's features should be readily available and, yes... accurate.
And *please*.. if anyone's going to say "well they were too busy developing the game to worry about the website"... spare it. The website represents the company and it represents the product they're making. Furthermore, modifying a webpage to remove or alter information does *not* take a lot of time.
Funcom went through the same thing with AoC. They advertised and hyped features that were not in-game at release... nor for several months after, and in some cases, are still not in. FC got crap for that as well, and it was just as well deserved. DF and AV are no different.
On second thought, though, I'm sure not updating the feature list falls right in line with the hype Tasos has put out over the years... Even if it's not true, as long as it makes the game seem more appealing, then it's "a-okay". Naturally, the fanboys will defend it no matter what.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Why don't AV just take the FAQ and anything describing the features on their main site down? That would be even easier than editing everything and would force people to go to the forums to get information about the game. Better yet link directly to the forum threads with the most up to date information. It is a little extreme but if they cannot do a little editing ,for whatever reason, at least link to places that have the correct information.
Aside from some gameplay decisions made on their part, this lack of professionalism is huge turn off for me. Heck, I might have given the game a shot even without some of those features if Aventurine had their act together. Please spare me the whole bit about they do not have time because they are improving the game. Like I said earlier, I would consider the game as it is if the management part was more in line with the normal so that's irrelevant to me. Saying that this should be disregarded is like saying I should buy and eat a decent hamburger from a restaurant that has a very dirty grimy establishment with rude and or unresponsive cashiers. Not to mention all the people crying boycott outside the place. I know I went on a little bit of a rant but that's just how I feel about the whole thing.
I hope the Aventurine gets things together but I can't bring myself to fund such lack of professionalism. Go ahead call me a troll, hater, or whatever or that the game is "clearly not for me" or that I should take my carebear self back to WoW... it will only push a potential customer even further away....
I have a geniune question for Darth. I have never posted. I've always been content to follow the game on my own and use the forums for amusement and to keep my finger on the pulse. Full Disclosure: I began following this game back when these forums were a full page of Vaporware threads and like 2 actual information posts. I fell in love with everything that the OP posted as expected features. The game has now "released" (this is debatable due to it not being widely available) Since Beta to this point in time though, I'v ebeen disgusted with my being promised a pizza with everything on it, but being given some uncooked dough that has fallen into a puddle of ketchup. Even more disgusted with the people that accuse you of being a carebear that doesn't like pizza. To which I could reply, that's not pizza, its dough and sauce which is like a failure of its intended form. To which they reply, F' you, its better than the McDonalds that you carebears love. To which I reply.... Whew sorry I started seeing red there for a sec. But to Darth and any other DFO advocates (I didn't use "fanboi", don't call me "troll". We'll see how long that truce lasts btw.), I have a handful of serious and geniune questions: 1) Why would it be unreasonable to expect that a retail store (that's what they are when you boil it down) should have accurate information on their site? And isn't having that official site still displaying that information without notifying the average visitor that it's inaccurate fraudlent? (The latter was a bit of a trap admittedly since in America there are literally laws against false advertising. If you have the right information elsewhere but the wrong information on the official site where you are able to purchase said product...you can be sued.) 2) Do you agree that what was promised was not delivered? Once again clarification: this was not a wishlist, but a statement of features said to be present. 3) What do you think usually, when you see this situation? A woman you know or care about or empathize with in some way, beaten regularly by her husband, who continues to go back to him and makes excuses for his behaviour, ie. "He loves me", "He said he'll change", "Things are rough for him right now", "He's just stressed"...etc etc. Please understand that I'm just trying to understand. I'm so baffled by Darth's responses to a factual accounting to the current state of the game and site, that I literally broke my silence on these forums after following this game from the early 2000s.
I hate people that quote large portions of tex and add little but a one liner at the end of it. I have always vowed not to do that - I think it should get a warning or temporary forum ban! Since Myck has broken his vow of silence and writes such a good post I have decided to break my vow of not quoting large posts without trimming them!
QFT!
Whether you have played or not (I have) you seem to have captured the spirit of things nicely. Personally I would have been happy with base, tomato paste, and cheese if the base was perfect thickness and cooked to perfection, the tomato was tangy and delicious and the cheese was premium, beautifully melted and a little brown at the edge. Sadly its a doughy mess
Yeah yeah i know fanbots......go back to hamburgers
I feel sorry for darth, he got left behind on this game and now defends it at all cost so it will stay afloat long enough for him to get a copy.. we should just pity him and not fuss with him..it's like fussing with a handicap child that clams his toy binky is the best.. no matter how old and crappy it looks it is his best binky.. so all us trolls< this is a good words makes him fill like he is in game fighting monsters> should just smile and agree yes your binky<game><toy> is the best and move on this game is dead and loosing more and more poeple that care ..
Not to be pushy or anything. You technically didn't answer my questions as I asked them. Granted you gave your opinion on the state of the game overall. But I was honestly hoping for your answer to the questions themselves. And no whether I have played the game or not yet does not prevent you from asnwering my questions. I can repost if you don't want to scroll up or page back.
1) Why would it be unreasonable to expect that a retail store (that's what they are when you boil it down) should have accurate information on their site? And isn't having that official site still displaying that information without notifying the average visitor that it's inaccurate fraudlent? (The latter was a bit of a trap admittedly since in America there are literally laws against false advertising. If you have the right information elsewhere but the wrong information on the official site where you are able to purchase said product...you can be sued.)
I am not a lawyer don't know if its fullfill fraudlent in Greece as statement of facts. In the case of DarkFall features list and in my personal opinion i value the reasons of why they don't change their website as reasonable.
Anyone in the world that has a job can and will tell you that in this world you are only as good as your word. Whether Greece has laws or not, you can't log onto Amazon, order an iPod and have them send you a CD, but you say its OK bc you like the band and if you read 51st User Opinion someone mentioned a link to the band. Your musical preference isn't being called into question here. The service and what was advertised was. Like-wise the question above had no mention of what your personal opinion is. Not to be snide, but it doesn't. Did they AND are they advertising on the public official website information that is untrue? And isn't that not only bad business but also bad ethics?
2) Do you agree that what was promised was not delivered? Once again clarification: this was not a wishlist, but a statement of features said to be present.
I will not answer this question.. my perception of the feature list was always selective from day one i valued some things above others..
Your perception of the feature list was wrong. It stopped being selective when Tasos said that these ARE the features. That's the very definition of not being selective or one valued more than the other. Also, what is the opinion then? Screw the guys that wanted the other 75% of the content bc you are happy with the scant 25% they delivered? Is it unreasonable for people to want what was advertised?
3) What do you think usually, when you see this situation? A woman you know or care about or empathize with in some way, beaten regularly by her husband, who continues to go back to him and makes excuses for his behaviour, ie. "He loves me", "He said he'll change", "Things are rough for him right now", "He's just stressed"...etc etc.
Its not the case with DarkFall, they did the right decsions IMO if they cut things out then the right ones.I hope they don't change because they are given us DarkFall in first place, example : they had to make a decision ..allowing private houses or not ? what outcome of placing houses ?
a) people have a toy..nice
b)sandboxy ..nice
c) they could place house near monster and farm more effective ..nort so nice ..
d) they can spam a house and create a safezone and run in to safety ..not nice
c) they can use placing houses to block citys/entrances/whatnot ..not nice and usable as exploit..
= cut houses off ..i value these decision as wise and giving me confidence about their thinking ..
Uhm. This one is tricky. I'm sure you did and didn't answer this. To you you deftly side-stepped my analogy to again defend DFO, but I'm honestly saddened by all these answers really passively answering this question. You ARE the Wife. The problem is that the wife never realizes her sad defense or her bruised lips and she smiles to others and assures them things are fine.
So i have to say ..keep up the good work ..really if these guys had only the budget of those useless $OE salesmen with their crapy design decisions...they could made amazing stuff. ..sure ...Game will progress and will get better with more means in their hands in the near future .they were on the right track from start and so much interest showing that they was on something on ...
oh before i forget ..o f course they should be more talky .. that should change ..
First of all edited for the sake of people's eyeballs.
Next. My earnest responses were above. Please note that I'm not calling you a fanboi, just stating some things that are factual. Fact, not troll opinion fact. I am not saying you should dislike a game. But you should stop... spinning the truth so that it stops shining favorably on the dishonest. Whether or not you like DFO isn't a reason to lie about their perfomance or what fans and regular players alike have a right to.
So whats bottom line good Sir ?
I don't see what you like to accomplish..fact is these list is outdated and does not fit in some parts with the actuall game and now what ?
Does the game has gotten better or worse with the missing parts ..i say it has be gotten better for me because they cut out some critical parts that have been increasing the value of my gameplay ..
i have been spared of private houses/safezones, trapcarpets bigger as sparemiles , hordes of hirelings that ganking me, kiting 4 legged mahirims etc.. Sure i will miss weather effects and wondering mobs but that''s so tiny compared to what to i get so i don't see a point to starting flamewars to a game that satisfies me because of missing weather lol ..
Also i don't have called you a troll, but be carefull with your facts, and look at the priority and weigh of facts ..before crucifying something because of a skew nail, look at what has been accomplished..
The first ground, medievel themed, seamless world , full loot , 3D , PvP, real time twitch combat, PvP everywhere has seen the light of MMORPG world..brought to you by a small hardworking development studio that has no support by big publishers and has been created all on itself ..even the engine that has been build the game upon.. and dared to be different in first place..
Anyone know what this sentence means? I am confuzzled. My brain hurts.
So that's all what is bottom line left for you to say ?
I regret the time i invested taking your questions serious and answer them honest as good as i could..
you could have just asked me to rephrase...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
At least you got where i was coming from .. -small playerbase for the win .. -if someone is able to collect the info and do the search work is worthy to enter the game .. (i have some other believes about who is worthy too lol) /congrats (btw i fully understand that it could be against interest of the company of my game but i like it that way and is my opinion before someone replys stupid things about again lol)
DR I'm glad you enjoy the game and all but you are so wrong it is quite sad. Small player base for the lose, the smaller the player base the bigger the lose. It could 'win' like Dark and Light or 'win' like Shadowbane, if AV are really lucky it could 'win' like AoC. Currently it is winning like Shadowbane, is that really the future you would like for your game?
You think that AV are not marketing there game to purposely keep it small? Forget all the BS that Tasos spouted, companies primary objective is to produce a return on investment for there shareholders. Thats it, thats what companies do. I am pleased you like the game really I am but I simply boggle at how you can warp things in your mind to justify what currently is a comercial failure.
The game released feature complete in regards to what an INFORMED commuity member would expect (except 4 legs run mahirim and individual housing)
I just love these arrogant replies from hyper-defensive fans of a game. The complete disregard of common-sense never ceases to amaze me.
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to go to a website, see a list of features, and assume that they represent what is in the game. They need not be any more "INFORMED" than that.
The HONEST thing a RESPONSIBLE company would have done was remove items that had since been pushed back or otherwise removed from the features list. It is MISLEADING to keep them up there, making people who want to get some info on the game to believe there's a lot more there than there really is. They should have updated and modified the list as decisions and changes were made so their website represented the game they were actually making, not the game they wanted people to believe they would be buying.
It is not the CUSTOMER'S responsibility to dig for the most recent and accurate information. It's the DEVELOPER'S responsibility to provide accurate and recent information. Everything a person interested in a game should need to know about a game's features should be readily available and, yes... accurate.
And *please*.. if anyone's going to say "well they were too busy developing the game to worry about the website"... spare it. The website represents the company and it represents the product they're making. Furthermore, modifying a webpage to remove or alter information does *not* take a lot of time.
Funcom went through the same thing with AoC. They advertised and hyped features that were not in-game at release... nor for several months after, and in some cases, are still not in. FC got crap for that as well, and it was just as well deserved. DF and AV are no different.
On second thought, though, I'm sure not updating the feature list falls right in line with the hype Tasos has put out over the years... Even if it's not true, as long as it makes the game seem more appealing, then it's "a-okay". Naturally, the fanboys will defend it no matter what.
I have a feeling that Aventurine actually did update the website. Remember the "White Border"?
Truth be told, they then looked at what was left after update, and realized that there wasn't too many selling features left. At least not to the general public.
And I agree, updating of the website is/should not be a difficult task. Considering that Tasos is the producer, it is his responsibility to keep the site current.
Comments
The game released feature complete in regards to what an INFORMED commuity member would expect (except 4 legs run mahirim and individual housing)
I just love these arrogant replies from hyper-defensive fans of a game. The complete disregard of common-sense never ceases to amaze me.
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to go to a website, see a list of features, and assume that they represent what is in the game. They need not be any more "INFORMED" than that.
The HONEST thing a RESPONSIBLE company would have done was remove items that had since been pushed back or otherwise removed from the features list. It is MISLEADING to keep them up there, making people who want to get some info on the game to believe there's a lot more there than there really is. They should have updated and modified the list as decisions and changes were made so their website represented the game they were actually making, not the game they wanted people to believe they would be buying.
It is not the CUSTOMER'S responsibility to dig for the most recent and accurate information. It's the DEVELOPER'S responsibility to provide accurate and recent information. Everything a person interested in a game should need to know about a game's features should be readily available and, yes... accurate.
And *please*.. if anyone's going to say "well they were too busy developing the game to worry about the website"... spare it. The website represents the company and it represents the product they're making. Furthermore, modifying a webpage to remove or alter information does *not* take a lot of time.
Funcom went through the same thing with AoC. They advertised and hyped features that were not in-game at release... nor for several months after, and in some cases, are still not in. FC got crap for that as well, and it was just as well deserved. DF and AV are no different.
On second thought, though, I'm sure not updating the feature list falls right in line with the hype Tasos has put out over the years... Even if it's not true, as long as it makes the game seem more appealing, then it's "a-okay". Naturally, the fanboys will defend it no matter what.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Why don't AV just take the FAQ and anything describing the features on their main site down? That would be even easier than editing everything and would force people to go to the forums to get information about the game. Better yet link directly to the forum threads with the most up to date information. It is a little extreme but if they cannot do a little editing ,for whatever reason, at least link to places that have the correct information.
Aside from some gameplay decisions made on their part, this lack of professionalism is huge turn off for me. Heck, I might have given the game a shot even without some of those features if Aventurine had their act together. Please spare me the whole bit about they do not have time because they are improving the game. Like I said earlier, I would consider the game as it is if the management part was more in line with the normal so that's irrelevant to me. Saying that this should be disregarded is like saying I should buy and eat a decent hamburger from a restaurant that has a very dirty grimy establishment with rude and or unresponsive cashiers. Not to mention all the people crying boycott outside the place. I know I went on a little bit of a rant but that's just how I feel about the whole thing.
I hope the Aventurine gets things together but I can't bring myself to fund such lack of professionalism. Go ahead call me a troll, hater, or whatever or that the game is "clearly not for me" or that I should take my carebear self back to WoW... it will only push a potential customer even further away....
I hate people that quote large portions of tex and add little but a one liner at the end of it. I have always vowed not to do that - I think it should get a warning or temporary forum ban! Since Myck has broken his vow of silence and writes such a good post I have decided to break my vow of not quoting large posts without trimming them!
QFT!
Whether you have played or not (I have) you seem to have captured the spirit of things nicely. Personally I would have been happy with base, tomato paste, and cheese if the base was perfect thickness and cooked to perfection, the tomato was tangy and delicious and the cheese was premium, beautifully melted and a little brown at the edge. Sadly its a doughy mess
Yeah yeah i know fanbots......go back to hamburgers
I feel sorry for darth, he got left behind on this game and now defends it at all cost so it will stay afloat long enough for him to get a copy.. we should just pity him and not fuss with him..it's like fussing with a handicap child that clams his toy binky is the best.. no matter how old and crappy it looks it is his best binky.. so all us trolls< this is a good words makes him fill like he is in game fighting monsters> should just smile and agree yes your binky<game><toy> is the best and move on this game is dead and loosing more and more poeple that care ..
O sorry yes Dart you have the best binky /smiles
1) Why would it be unreasonable to expect that a retail store (that's what they are when you boil it down) should have accurate information on their site? And isn't having that official site still displaying that information without notifying the average visitor that it's inaccurate fraudlent? (The latter was a bit of a trap admittedly since in America there are literally laws against false advertising. If you have the right information elsewhere but the wrong information on the official site where you are able to purchase said product...you can be sued.)
I am not a lawyer don't know if its fullfill fraudlent in Greece as statement of facts. In the case of DarkFall features list and in my personal opinion i value the reasons of why they don't change their website as reasonable.
Anyone in the world that has a job can and will tell you that in this world you are only as good as your word. Whether Greece has laws or not, you can't log onto Amazon, order an iPod and have them send you a CD, but you say its OK bc you like the band and if you read 51st User Opinion someone mentioned a link to the band. Your musical preference isn't being called into question here. The service and what was advertised was. Like-wise the question above had no mention of what your personal opinion is. Not to be snide, but it doesn't. Did they AND are they advertising on the public official website information that is untrue? And isn't that not only bad business but also bad ethics?
2) Do you agree that what was promised was not delivered? Once again clarification: this was not a wishlist, but a statement of features said to be present.
I will not answer this question.. my perception of the feature list was always selective from day one i valued some things above others..
Your perception of the feature list was wrong. It stopped being selective when Tasos said that these ARE the features. That's the very definition of not being selective or one valued more than the other. Also, what is the opinion then? Screw the guys that wanted the other 75% of the content bc you are happy with the scant 25% they delivered? Is it unreasonable for people to want what was advertised?
3) What do you think usually, when you see this situation? A woman you know or care about or empathize with in some way, beaten regularly by her husband, who continues to go back to him and makes excuses for his behaviour, ie. "He loves me", "He said he'll change", "Things are rough for him right now", "He's just stressed"...etc etc.
Its not the case with DarkFall, they did the right decsions IMO if they cut things out then the right ones.I hope they don't change because they are given us DarkFall in first place, example : they had to make a decision ..allowing private houses or not ? what outcome of placing houses ?
a) people have a toy..nice
b)sandboxy ..nice
c) they could place house near monster and farm more effective ..nort so nice ..
d) they can spam a house and create a safezone and run in to safety ..not nice
c) they can use placing houses to block citys/entrances/whatnot ..not nice and usable as exploit..
= cut houses off ..i value these decision as wise and giving me confidence about their thinking ..
Uhm. This one is tricky. I'm sure you did and didn't answer this. To you you deftly side-stepped my analogy to again defend DFO, but I'm honestly saddened by all these answers really passively answering this question. You ARE the Wife. The problem is that the wife never realizes her sad defense or her bruised lips and she smiles to others and assures them things are fine.
So i have to say ..keep up the good work ..really if these guys had only the budget of those useless $OE salesmen with their crapy design decisions...they could made amazing stuff. ..sure ...Game will progress and will get better with more means in their hands in the near future .they were on the right track from start and so much interest showing that they was on something on ...
oh before i forget ..o f course they should be more talky .. that should change ..
First of all edited for the sake of people's eyeballs.
Next. My earnest responses were above. Please note that I'm not calling you a fanboi, just stating some things that are factual. Fact, not troll opinion fact. I am not saying you should dislike a game. But you should stop... spinning the truth so that it stops shining favorably on the dishonest. Whether or not you like DFO isn't a reason to lie about their perfomance or what fans and regular players alike have a right to.
So whats bottom line good Sir ?
I don't see what you like to accomplish..fact is these list is outdated and does not fit in some parts with the actuall game and now what ?
Does the game has gotten better or worse with the missing parts ..i say it has be gotten better for me because they cut out some critical parts that have been increasing the value of my gameplay ..
i have been spared of private houses/safezones, trapcarpets bigger as sparemiles , hordes of hirelings that ganking me, kiting 4 legged mahirims etc.. Sure i will miss weather effects and wondering mobs but that''s so tiny compared to what to i get so i don't see a point to starting flamewars to a game that satisfies me because of missing weather lol ..
Also i don't have called you a troll, but be carefull with your facts, and look at the priority and weigh of facts ..before crucifying something because of a skew nail, look at what has been accomplished..
The first ground, medievel themed, seamless world , full loot , 3D , PvP, real time twitch combat, PvP everywhere has seen the light of MMORPG world..brought to you by a small hardworking development studio that has no support by big publishers and has been created all on itself ..even the engine that has been build the game upon.. and dared to be different in first place..
Anyone know what this sentence means? I am confuzzled. My brain hurts.
So that's all what is bottom line left for you to say ?
I regret the time i invested taking your questions serious and answer them honest as good as i could..
you could have just asked me to rephrase...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
DR I'm glad you enjoy the game and all but you are so wrong it is quite sad. Small player base for the lose, the smaller the player base the bigger the lose. It could 'win' like Dark and Light or 'win' like Shadowbane, if AV are really lucky it could 'win' like AoC. Currently it is winning like Shadowbane, is that really the future you would like for your game?
You think that AV are not marketing there game to purposely keep it small? Forget all the BS that Tasos spouted, companies primary objective is to produce a return on investment for there shareholders. Thats it, thats what companies do. I am pleased you like the game really I am but I simply boggle at how you can warp things in your mind to justify what currently is a comercial failure.
The game released feature complete in regards to what an INFORMED commuity member would expect (except 4 legs run mahirim and individual housing)
I just love these arrogant replies from hyper-defensive fans of a game. The complete disregard of common-sense never ceases to amaze me.
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to go to a website, see a list of features, and assume that they represent what is in the game. They need not be any more "INFORMED" than that.
The HONEST thing a RESPONSIBLE company would have done was remove items that had since been pushed back or otherwise removed from the features list. It is MISLEADING to keep them up there, making people who want to get some info on the game to believe there's a lot more there than there really is. They should have updated and modified the list as decisions and changes were made so their website represented the game they were actually making, not the game they wanted people to believe they would be buying.
It is not the CUSTOMER'S responsibility to dig for the most recent and accurate information. It's the DEVELOPER'S responsibility to provide accurate and recent information. Everything a person interested in a game should need to know about a game's features should be readily available and, yes... accurate.
And *please*.. if anyone's going to say "well they were too busy developing the game to worry about the website"... spare it. The website represents the company and it represents the product they're making. Furthermore, modifying a webpage to remove or alter information does *not* take a lot of time.
Funcom went through the same thing with AoC. They advertised and hyped features that were not in-game at release... nor for several months after, and in some cases, are still not in. FC got crap for that as well, and it was just as well deserved. DF and AV are no different.
On second thought, though, I'm sure not updating the feature list falls right in line with the hype Tasos has put out over the years... Even if it's not true, as long as it makes the game seem more appealing, then it's "a-okay". Naturally, the fanboys will defend it no matter what.
I have a feeling that Aventurine actually did update the website. Remember the "White Border"?
Truth be told, they then looked at what was left after update, and realized that there wasn't too many selling features left. At least not to the general public.
And I agree, updating of the website is/should not be a difficult task. Considering that Tasos is the producer, it is his responsibility to keep the site current.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness