It's not my intention here to patronise you thinktank but you do realise that you try to reason with DarthRaiden, right? I mean last time i checked reason and Darth mix as well as oil does with water.
This.
Dont' both reasoning with Darth.. he just doesn't get it. anything less than 12/10 rating.. Darth doesn't comprehend..
this isn't an insult.. I'm just pointing out that a review that doesn't pain Darkfall in gold .. cannot be understood. For example, I don't like Thai food. it just doesn't suit me. Now, someone from Thailand might think I'm crazy.. same thing here.
Why not rename this thread to we don't reasoning / bother about Darth because he doesn't comprehend / is dumb / is fanboi etc..
I have said my opinion about the review , have discussed the rating have given reasons why people have given higher ratings (around 66 % in a recent poll) all in a polite manner ..
What i got is here people instead to discuss my arguments, start to bully me on a personal level..
Ok you don't like Thai food to remain on your example but you put a review and conclude a rating and say Thai food is a 3 / 10 for you ..ok accepted, but the rating is based on reasoning ..and the resoning behind is up for discussion if its posted on forum or not ?
I dont have a right to find reasons and anylyze why you have given your 3 / 10 voting ? and why io would have given a higher rating ? OP made a topic and set up for discussion and i do just that and discuss it ..if it wasn't for discussion ..he would have written a blog , or a column in magazine...or whatever..
So why i value, comment, give alternatives and reasons why i do so , all you say is don't bother reasoning ..
omg its not that i called OP review crap and made fun of him..i give just 2 simple comments about..
66 % give a higher rating then him..(me included)
that must be because the value of some features is more important to them then some flaws ..
Simple things...jesus ..
You are agruing that his opinion is incorrect based on your view of the game. You are saying that his opinion is WRONG. I prefer to not read what you reply. The fact that you've said that "it doesn't matter what's on their website, you are supposed to read the forums" before buying the product. I've dismissed you as a complete fanboi from that point on. Your logic is very flawed. You lack the basic concepts of understanding what a game company does, and is set out to due. You are brain washed by tasos, and it shows in every one of your posts. Yet, you constantly come in to any post that gives Darkfall an non-biased review, or any one that places it in the not so bright light you see it in, and tell them they are wrong. I used an analogy for you and I.
I know it may difficult for you to realize that not everyone likes Darkfall, or that just maybe, it's not all it's cracked up to be.. but sooner or later, you'll need to realize that. Best of luck to you.
I did not say he is WRONG stop putting additionally words in my posts that are not there to read. And yes the forums are where the recent news are being posted..use them if you want the recent information or you will not have the most recent information..that's how this company handles their news and its wise if you interested on this game to read the most up to date source...But you don't have to, if you find it to tiresome, do something else ..but that's another topic..
it is not to difficult for me to realize that people dislike Darkfall, i got used to, Vaporware talk and bashing since first day i am here.. i have no problem with people not liking the game (i like people to not like the game because i want i dedicated and small playerbase) ..but i would like it if people not liking the game stay away from it ..not visit the forums, not troll..so people who stay and like the game can enjoy it ..
I know it may be difficult to you to realize and you free to not read my posts, you also free to even block my post..but please ..
can you next tme abstain to mention my name in a post that is not directed to me..it is impolite to reply to others and mentioning me..if you don't have to say anything to me then you don't have to say anything ABOUT me..thanks
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
One of the main areas of disagreement is regarding the "need" to macro.
The only people that "need" to macro are those that have no idea of what a sandbox game is and have been so conditioned by years of themepark play that they can't help themselves. By trying to powerlevel this game, they miss the whole point.
I don't macro, I just play my toon. My toon becomes better over time, in all areas that are part of the style with which I am currently playing.
I think RobertB got this right. In sandbox games players have the freedom to play at their own pace. In the sandboxes I've played I never worried about a race to the finish like I do (along with most other players) in themepark games. The game can be enjoyed no matter what skill level you've reached. You can set your own goals. Darkfall is kind of lacking there, I think, as it does have a final destination (skill level 100). I played Tibia for a few years and it had no level or skill cap whatsoever. If you were satisfied with your character's progression rate, the game was fun. There was no need to grind anything in order to compete. Also, each skill point was an improvement over the last, it wasn't incremental like DF where only every 25th point actually matters. Still, though, Darkfall is a sandbox game and I'm sure mages can enjoy themselves if they slow down and don't try to powerlevel throughout the game. Just play at your own pace and let your character grow. Sandbox games are more like other worlds than they are like games. Just live the life of your character and enjoy the journey.
With a little work the game can improve upon most of the balance issues and the magic system. Personally, I'd like to see the game take on a more limitless style like Tibia where the harder you were willing to work, the stronger you could become, without ever being stopped just because the devs decided on a limit. That kind of system allows people to build reputations and adds to the overall community I think. People become legends who are remembered long after they leave the game. Also I'd like to see the skill points actually mean something with each one... every 25th point seems like a retarded system. Why even have points between them then? Why not just 4 levels with a progress bar?
[quote]Originally posted by tcosaddict ... Also I'd like to see the skill points actually mean something with each one... every 25th point seems like a retarded system. Why even have points between them then? Why not just 4 levels with a progress bar?[/b][/quote]
I agree with this, and yet I understand where Darkfall is coming from on the subject. If you make every skill level mean something then by 100 you're so much more powerful than a new player that it's not a contest. You should be more powerful, and in Darkfall you are, but not so powerful that 10 equally competent, but new, players can't take you.
The four tiered system, 25 50 75 100 is in place, and I'm not a huge fan, but my problem with it is not so much that the individual levels aren't important, but rather that there are so few skills involved so far.
It's certainly a tough balancing act, the skill progression must mean something, but not so much that it becomes just like a level based game where the higher level player wins regardless of his competency at the keyboard.
Ideally I'd like a game where you don't look at your skill levels, you just play the game the way you like and the skills you enjoy using naturally max out. No grinding, just playing and your style determines which skill trees you're proficient at. I'm not sure it's possible and Darkfall doesn't have it yet.
I just wanted to say that the OP has the best DF review of read in a long time. No fanboism and no trolling, my hats off to a balanced and honest review of the game.
Its easy to say that only masochists are the ones not choosing to play FOTM classes, but I have never witnessed any of game population where the imbalance has been this significant. There are always the people in other games who play with a unique build and still kick ass. Darkfall is missing this.
PvP MMOs that have skills--and that's all of them--need those skills balanced. The easiest way to do this, although it is by no means easy or ever finished, is to lump together a set of skills in a bundle and call that a "class." A developer can then build in things like penalties for heavy armor or bonuses for light armor into those boundaries...sprinkle in some CC and healing...tweak the values. This is the most common way to do it and we're all familiar with it.
"Sandbox" character development with no class boundaries is just an illusion. If done properly with well-balanced abilities--making some mutually exclusive--it simply results in the players themselves choosing the bundles of abilities resulting in player-designed classes. If it isn't done well you get a single "class." But in any case people will choose whatever works best.
This is especially the case in a "hardcore" PvP game with real penalties for death. Why in the world would someone choose a set of skills that is just going to get them beaten-up 95% of the time? It makes no sense to do anything other than go with the flow and tweak yourself into whatever gives you the best chance to compete.
I just think it's funny that people are surprised to see a world full of 2-hd, heavy-armored players with some healing and a little bit of ranged damage-dealing... don't call it a Paladin if that's just too WOWish for you, but that's pretty well what the players see as the best way to play atm.
It's funny but I have said many times in the class-balancing forums of many PvP games over the years that the only way to stop all the whining about the developers loving "X" class and hating "Y" class was to just give everyone one class to play and let them go at it. I was just being sarcastic, not trying to predict a boring simple future
well, i remember making a lot of different "classes" in UO... pre-cu swg had me always changing the skills i was currently using... eve has quite a diversity of "classes" that you can build into... i believe ryzom has where you can make the "class" you want as well...
it can be done. it's been done a number of times with quite a bit of success, i say this from playing and enjoying the above games. at least until stupidity destroyed two of them.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I read the review. You have done a fairly good job on it.
I disagree with some of your opinions, but perhaps I view things differently.
One of the main areas of disagreement is regarding the "need" to macro.
The only people that "need" to macro are those that have no idea of what a sandbox game is and have been so conditioned by years of themepark play that they can't help themselves. By trying to powerlevel this game, they miss the whole point.
I don't macro, I just play my toon. My toon becomes better over time, in all areas that are part of the style with which I am currently playing.
There are other areas of your review that are somewhat incorrect factually, but overall, it's ok.
(Just so you know. I rate Darkfall, taking into consideration that it is freshly released so I am only looking at the core of the game, as an 8 or 9/10.)
Macroing in MMOs has been around since the days of UO, so exactly which theme park MMO were those players conditioned by 10 years ago when they were grinding bone knights, 8x8, casting blade spirits under the stairs, etc.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
It's not my intention here to patronise you thinktank but you do realise that you try to reason with DarthRaiden, right? I mean last time i checked reason and Darth mix as well as oil does with water.
This.
Dont' both reasoning with Darth.. he just doesn't get it. anything less than 12/10 rating.. Darth doesn't comprehend..
this isn't an insult.. I'm just pointing out that a review that doesn't pain Darkfall in gold .. cannot be understood. For example, I don't like Thai food. it just doesn't suit me. Now, someone from Thailand might think I'm crazy.. same thing here.
Why not rename this thread to we don't reasoning / bother about Darth because he doesn't comprehend / is dumb / is fanboi etc..
I have said my opinion about the review , have discussed the rating have given reasons why people have given higher ratings (around 66 % in a recent poll) all in a polite manner ..
What i got is here people instead to discuss my arguments, start to bully me on a personal level..
Ok you don't like Thai food to remain on your example but you put a review and conclude a rating and say Thai food is a 3 / 10 for you ..ok accepted, but the rating is based on reasoning ..and the resoning behind is up for discussion if its posted on forum or not ?
I dont have a right to find reasons and anylyze why you have given your 3 / 10 voting ? and why io would have given a higher rating ? OP made a topic and set up for discussion and i do just that and discuss it ..if it wasn't for discussion ..he would have written a blog , or a column in magazine...or whatever..
So why i value, comment, give alternatives and reasons why i do so , all you say is don't bother reasoning ..
omg its not that i called OP review crap and made fun of him..i give just 2 simple comments about..
66 % give a higher rating then him..(me included)
that must be because the value of some features is more important to them then some flaws ..
Simple things...jesus ..
66% of what people where?
the people i surveyed were about 83% lower than the ops rating. some 7% simply replied with "wth... what is this crap"; which i counted simply as a zero.
interesting op however. really seems like all the cool stuff i read on the site IS gone. persistent world fps. whoop de doo
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Wait till mages get their high school masters and your current FOTM will be dieing like flies lol
And something about the rate ..
In a poll about how players rate the game
The simaler rating of 6/10 have chosen - 7,6 %
worser then OP's rating - 25,59 % (this includes the "neutral" voting (its not good but also not bad) of 5 / 10)
higher rating then OP have chosen - 66,76 %
DR, again, you miss the point.
If or when mages begin destroying the current FOTM build, then mages will become the new FOTM, and most players will start building toward that. The original point stands - with skill-based games, unless produced by a very sophisticated developer, most of them devolve into one homogenous build ruling the game at any one time.
That kills the entire "freedom" claim. Sure, you're free to develop a FOTM build and be competitive, or you're free to build a weak character that can't compete. Not much of a decision there, really. So much for freedom.
It's great that you love the game, but being blind and rabid doesn't help. A little objectivity is a good thing.
good reply.
after all, FOTM means flavour of the month.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I read the review. You have done a fairly good job on it.
I disagree with some of your opinions, but perhaps I view things differently.
One of the main areas of disagreement is regarding the "need" to macro.
The only people that "need" to macro are those that have no idea of what a sandbox game is and have been so conditioned by years of themepark play that they can't help themselves. By trying to powerlevel this game, they miss the whole point.
I don't macro, I just play my toon. My toon becomes better over time, in all areas that are part of the style with which I am currently playing.
There are other areas of your review that are somewhat incorrect factually, but overall, it's ok.
(Just so you know. I rate Darkfall, taking into consideration that it is freshly released so I am only looking at the core of the game, as an 8 or 9/10.)
Well I didnt necessarily mean you HAVE to macro to get anywhere. Me and you are alike in the fact that we dont mind a good challenge, even if the challenge happens to be mindless clicking of a button for hours upon end (some might not consider this challenging at all, but thats another debate...)
The fact is, is that if people see a shortcut around a challenge in a game, and a work around this challenge will give them a benefit, they will take it.
My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
I am not claiming to offer any solutions to this, as I cant imagine how to implement a skill based system which does not encourage or even prevents macroing, but that doesnt mean the system isnt flawed, and these developers are getting payed to come up with answers to these kinds of questions. Answers to these kinds of questions are what make a dynamic and intricate system that rewards the hard working, not the cheating. Taking shortcuts or just throwing out some faulty system into the game world just makes it no fun for anyone, as the hard working just get screwed by the cheaters, and the cheaters (I would like to believe) would feel a greater sense of achievement if they didnt have to cheat to get somewhere.
I read the review. You have done a fairly good job on it.
I disagree with some of your opinions, but perhaps I view things differently.
One of the main areas of disagreement is regarding the "need" to macro.
The only people that "need" to macro are those that have no idea of what a sandbox game is and have been so conditioned by years of themepark play that they can't help themselves. By trying to powerlevel this game, they miss the whole point.
I don't macro, I just play my toon. My toon becomes better over time, in all areas that are part of the style with which I am currently playing.
There are other areas of your review that are somewhat incorrect factually, but overall, it's ok.
(Just so you know. I rate Darkfall, taking into consideration that it is freshly released so I am only looking at the core of the game, as an 8 or 9/10.)
Well I didnt necessarily mean you HAVE to macro to get anywhere. Me and you are alike in the fact that we dont mind a good challenge, even if the challenge happens to be mindless clicking of a button for hours upon end (some might not consider this challenging at all, but thats another debate...)
The fact is, is that if people see a shortcut around a challenge in a game, and a work around this challenge will give them a benefit, they will take it.
My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
I am not claiming to offer any solutions to this, as I cant imagine how to implement a skill based system which does not encourage or even prevents macroing, but that doesnt mean the system isnt flawed, and these developers are getting payed to come up with answers to these kinds of questions. Answers to these kinds of questions are what make a dynamic and intricate system that rewards the hard working, not the cheating. Taking shortcuts or just throwing out some faulty system into the game world just makes it no fun for anyone, as the hard working just get screwed by the cheaters, and the cheaters (I would like to believe) would feel a greater sense of achievement if they didnt have to cheat to get somewhere.
UO/pre-cu SWG/EVE/Ryzom all have/had skill based systems which worked. they didn't discourage macroing; but they are/were interesting skill based systems.
uo/pre-cu swg had a skill cap, while eve/ryzom let you max everything (eventually).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Guys, it's not that Darkfall is missing diversification or specialization, it's that NO ONE except 24/7 macroing powergamers have even begun to tap into magic. That is why I believe that progression in Darkfall is messed up. No one has even had the chance to branch out yet and start specializing in the spells they WANT to specialize in. A little bit of diversification stems from melee. Of course, the imbalanced nature of a few of the weapons currently retards the potential diversity. I would also like to see weapon specific specials... like 4 or 5 of each. But the huge diversification comes from magic. That is where everyone will distinguish themselves. There are eight schools of magic, but people don't necessarily specialize in schools of magic, they specialize in individual spells. I made a post on this a week or so ago. www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2717443#2717443
Magic is just too out of wack with melee and archery. There was a post stating that high end archery has 30 dmg per shot and a high end firebolt has 40 dmg per shot. The difference is the cost per shot. It costs 2 expensive or havested reagents per shot for magic and 1 arrow for archery. Magic is much easier to dodge than archery so it makes no sence to spend 10k plus gold and/or hours of macros to gather 100's of thousands of reagents to reach the high end magic.
There is no payoff at the moment. It is a waste of time and gold to be a pure mage. The buffs are for other characters for the most part, you can't buff yourself. The debuffs don't do enough to be worth the reagent cost.
Regular PvP will always be melee based. Siege warfare with a very large clan that will fund your mage can be usefull at the start of battle. Once the clans are engaged, you will no longe be able to use your magic without killing your own clan.
It needs to have a major overhall before it is a viable option at the moment. By the time this is fixed, there will be more competition and it may be too late.
It is too bad, I had a ton of fun for a few weeks. It is starting to get old already though. Don't know if I can stick to grinding day after day. PvP is fun, but it can not sustain a game long term. There needs to be more in a MMO IMHO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Macroing in MMOs has been around since the days of UO, so exactly which theme park MMO were those players conditioned by 10 years ago when they were grinding bone knights, 8x8, casting blade spirits under the stairs, etc.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
Very well put heartless.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Macroing in MMOs has been around since the days of UO, so exactly which theme park MMO were those players conditioned by 10 years ago when they were grinding bone knights, 8x8, casting blade spirits under the stairs, etc.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
Indeed, people did macro back then, as well.
The real fact of the matter is that people cheat. Additionally, people can and have cheated in just about any game ever invented. Perhaps this is simply part of the psyche of some people and perhaps it is exacerbated by the annonymity of the internet, where those predisposed to such behaivior feel secure in the fact that getting caught may be unlikely.
There is even a segment that do not view cheating as, well, cheating. I have played many of these types of games where someone will argue to their last breath that whatever particular exploit of the game mechanics happens to be their preferred gaming style is simply an advantage for the smart gamer.
In the end, to lay this issue soley at the feet of the Darkfall devs is ridiculous.
I have learned to play the game as the devs intended. If I fall behind to cheaters, so be it. I tend to ignore those people, on a social level, anyway.
(btw, this weekend I got no less then 6 players kicked for macroing and at least 1 banned for hacking. Wasn't really fun, but if I see them, I simply report them, as players with any integrity should probably do.)
Originally posted by iluvVG My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
Originally posted by iluvVG My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
Originally posted by iluvVG My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
Originally posted by iluvVG My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
no it isnt, its badly implementet features.
You are kidding, right?
told you it was a strange thought for a fanbot
if it was really really fun to level your skill, do you really think people would macro as much?
Originally posted by iluvVG My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
no it isnt, its badly implementet features.
You are kidding, right?
told you it was a strange thought for a fanbot
if it was really really fun to level your skill, do you really think people would macro as much?
It's not my intention here to patronise you thinktank but you do realise that you try to reason with DarthRaiden, right? I mean last time i checked reason and Darth mix as well as oil does with water.
This.
Dont' both reasoning with Darth.. he just doesn't get it. anything less than 12/10 rating.. Darth doesn't comprehend..
this isn't an insult.. I'm just pointing out that a review that doesn't pain Darkfall in gold .. cannot be understood. For example, I don't like Thai food. it just doesn't suit me. Now, someone from Thailand might think I'm crazy.. same thing here.
Why not rename this thread to we don't reasoning / bother about Darth because he doesn't comprehend / is dumb / is fanboi etc..
I have said my opinion about the review , have discussed the rating have given reasons why people have given higher ratings (around 66 % in a recent poll) all in a polite manner ..
What i got is here people instead to discuss my arguments, start to bully me on a personal level..
Ok you don't like Thai food to remain on your example but you put a review and conclude a rating and say Thai food is a 3 / 10 for you ..ok accepted, but the rating is based on reasoning ..and the resoning behind is up for discussion if its posted on forum or not ?
I dont have a right to find reasons and anylyze why you have given your 3 / 10 voting ? and why io would have given a higher rating ? OP made a topic and set up for discussion and i do just that and discuss it ..if it wasn't for discussion ..he would have written a blog , or a column in magazine...or whatever..
So why i value, comment, give alternatives and reasons why i do so , all you say is don't bother reasoning ..
omg its not that i called OP review crap and made fun of him..i give just 2 simple comments about..
66 % give a higher rating then him..(me included)
that must be because the value of some features is more important to them then some flaws ..
Simple things...jesus ..
You are agruing that his opinion is incorrect based on your view of the game. You are saying that his opinion is WRONG. I prefer to not read what you reply. The fact that you've said that "it doesn't matter what's on their website, you are supposed to read the forums" before buying the product. I've dismissed you as a complete fanboi from that point on. Your logic is very flawed. You lack the basic concepts of understanding what a game company does, and is set out to due. You are brain washed by tasos, and it shows in every one of your posts. Yet, you constantly come in to any post that gives Darkfall an non-biased review, or any one that places it in the not so bright light you see it in, and tell them they are wrong. I used an analogy for you and I.
I know it may difficult for you to realize that not everyone likes Darkfall, or that just maybe, it's not all it's cracked up to be.. but sooner or later, you'll need to realize that. Best of luck to you.
it is not to difficult for me to realize that people dislike Darkfall, i got used to, Vaporware talk and bashing since first day i am here.. i have no problem with people not liking the game (i like people to not like the game because i want i dedicated and small playerbase) ..but i would like it if people not liking the game stay away from it ..not visit the forums, not troll..so people who stay and like the game can enjoy it ..
So, basically, you call anyone who gives a well-thought out review based on personal observations, a "troll?" The OP is performing a service - not only that, but he's using these forums for exactly what they were meant to be used for, and that is to give potential players an idea of what to expect.
all i proved was the skillleveling is driving people to macro. and thats a broken games fault, not the players
No. You proved that cheaters try to justify their cheating.
to get an effect (macroing), you will need to have a cause (poor implemented features)
you are blaming the the effect, but by doing that you wont get rid of the cause and people will continue to cheat because its more fun to watch grass grow than it is to level your skills. ( for the record, im NOT defending cheaters at all, i dont like them either)
i blame the cause, and if the cause could be removed, there would be no effect (or atleast a very limited one)
Macroing in MMOs has been around since the days of UO, so exactly which theme park MMO were those players conditioned by 10 years ago when they were grinding bone knights, 8x8, casting blade spirits under the stairs, etc.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
Indeed, people did macro back then, as well.
The real fact of the matter is that people cheat. Additionally, people can and have cheated in just about any game ever invented. Perhaps this is simply part of the psyche of some people and perhaps it is exacerbated by the annonymity of the internet, where those predisposed to such behaivior feel secure in the fact that getting caught may be unlikely.
There is even a segment that do not view cheating as, well, cheating. I have played many of these types of games where someone will argue to their last breath that whatever particular exploit of the game mechanics happens to be their preferred gaming style is simply an advantage for the smart gamer.
In the end, to lay this issue soley at the feet of the Darkfall devs is ridiculous.
I have learned to play the game as the devs intended. If I fall behind to cheaters, so be it. I tend to ignore those people, on a social level, anyway.
(btw, this weekend I got no less then 6 players kicked for macroing and at least 1 banned for hacking. Wasn't really fun, but if I see them, I simply report them, as players with any integrity should probably do.)
I'm not laying blame only on Aventurine I am well aware of hackers and people using exploits. Those types of gamers will always be present no matter what the developers do. However, Aventurine could've minimized their impact on the game world by implementing certain detection mechanisms into their game. Having most of the vital game functions done server-side would've helped also.
Aventurine are amateurs in the genre but the players who use cheats are to blame also. I often wonder what kind of a person uses cheats in the game. I mean it takes all of the fun out of it.
As far as macroing goes, the blame lies solely on Aventurine. They are the ones who designed their skill system and they are the ones who, in their attempt at mimicing UO's skill system, made it macro-friendly. They were also the ones sending out mixed signals. First macroing was ok, then only attended macroing was ok. Now macroing is not ok?
I'm glad that you're taking it upon yourself to combat macroers and hackers but your efforts may not be enough. The whole community needs to band together to deal with them. However, since some of the more populated guilds in DF have questionable history in previous games, I doubt that your efforts are shared by many.
Comments
This.
Dont' both reasoning with Darth.. he just doesn't get it. anything less than 12/10 rating.. Darth doesn't comprehend..
this isn't an insult.. I'm just pointing out that a review that doesn't pain Darkfall in gold .. cannot be understood. For example, I don't like Thai food. it just doesn't suit me. Now, someone from Thailand might think I'm crazy.. same thing here.
Why not rename this thread to we don't reasoning / bother about Darth because he doesn't comprehend / is dumb / is fanboi etc..
I have said my opinion about the review , have discussed the rating have given reasons why people have given higher ratings (around 66 % in a recent poll) all in a polite manner ..
What i got is here people instead to discuss my arguments, start to bully me on a personal level..
Ok you don't like Thai food to remain on your example but you put a review and conclude a rating and say Thai food is a 3 / 10 for you ..ok accepted, but the rating is based on reasoning ..and the resoning behind is up for discussion if its posted on forum or not ?
I dont have a right to find reasons and anylyze why you have given your 3 / 10 voting ? and why io would have given a higher rating ? OP made a topic and set up for discussion and i do just that and discuss it ..if it wasn't for discussion ..he would have written a blog , or a column in magazine...or whatever..
So why i value, comment, give alternatives and reasons why i do so , all you say is don't bother reasoning ..
omg its not that i called OP review crap and made fun of him..i give just 2 simple comments about..
66 % give a higher rating then him..(me included)
that must be because the value of some features is more important to them then some flaws ..
Simple things...jesus ..
You are agruing that his opinion is incorrect based on your view of the game. You are saying that his opinion is WRONG. I prefer to not read what you reply. The fact that you've said that "it doesn't matter what's on their website, you are supposed to read the forums" before buying the product. I've dismissed you as a complete fanboi from that point on. Your logic is very flawed. You lack the basic concepts of understanding what a game company does, and is set out to due. You are brain washed by tasos, and it shows in every one of your posts. Yet, you constantly come in to any post that gives Darkfall an non-biased review, or any one that places it in the not so bright light you see it in, and tell them they are wrong. I used an analogy for you and I.
I know it may difficult for you to realize that not everyone likes Darkfall, or that just maybe, it's not all it's cracked up to be.. but sooner or later, you'll need to realize that. Best of luck to you.
I did not say he is WRONG stop putting additionally words in my posts that are not there to read. And yes the forums are where the recent news are being posted..use them if you want the recent information or you will not have the most recent information..that's how this company handles their news and its wise if you interested on this game to read the most up to date source...But you don't have to, if you find it to tiresome, do something else ..but that's another topic..
it is not to difficult for me to realize that people dislike Darkfall, i got used to, Vaporware talk and bashing since first day i am here.. i have no problem with people not liking the game (i like people to not like the game because i want i dedicated and small playerbase) ..but i would like it if people not liking the game stay away from it ..not visit the forums, not troll..so people who stay and like the game can enjoy it ..
I know it may be difficult to you to realize and you free to not read my posts, you also free to even block my post..but please ..
can you next tme abstain to mention my name in a post that is not directed to me..it is impolite to reply to others and mentioning me..if you don't have to say anything to me then you don't have to say anything ABOUT me..thanks
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I think RobertB got this right. In sandbox games players have the freedom to play at their own pace. In the sandboxes I've played I never worried about a race to the finish like I do (along with most other players) in themepark games. The game can be enjoyed no matter what skill level you've reached. You can set your own goals. Darkfall is kind of lacking there, I think, as it does have a final destination (skill level 100). I played Tibia for a few years and it had no level or skill cap whatsoever. If you were satisfied with your character's progression rate, the game was fun. There was no need to grind anything in order to compete. Also, each skill point was an improvement over the last, it wasn't incremental like DF where only every 25th point actually matters. Still, though, Darkfall is a sandbox game and I'm sure mages can enjoy themselves if they slow down and don't try to powerlevel throughout the game. Just play at your own pace and let your character grow. Sandbox games are more like other worlds than they are like games. Just live the life of your character and enjoy the journey.
With a little work the game can improve upon most of the balance issues and the magic system. Personally, I'd like to see the game take on a more limitless style like Tibia where the harder you were willing to work, the stronger you could become, without ever being stopped just because the devs decided on a limit. That kind of system allows people to build reputations and adds to the overall community I think. People become legends who are remembered long after they leave the game. Also I'd like to see the skill points actually mean something with each one... every 25th point seems like a retarded system. Why even have points between them then? Why not just 4 levels with a progress bar?
[quote]Originally posted by tcosaddict
... Also I'd like to see the skill points actually mean something with each one... every 25th point seems like a retarded system. Why even have points between them then? Why not just 4 levels with a progress bar?[/b][/quote]
I agree with this, and yet I understand where Darkfall is coming from on the subject. If you make every skill level mean something then by 100 you're so much more powerful than a new player that it's not a contest. You should be more powerful, and in Darkfall you are, but not so powerful that 10 equally competent, but new, players can't take you.
The four tiered system, 25 50 75 100 is in place, and I'm not a huge fan, but my problem with it is not so much that the individual levels aren't important, but rather that there are so few skills involved so far.
It's certainly a tough balancing act, the skill progression must mean something, but not so much that it becomes just like a level based game where the higher level player wins regardless of his competency at the keyboard.
Ideally I'd like a game where you don't look at your skill levels, you just play the game the way you like and the skills you enjoy using naturally max out. No grinding, just playing and your style determines which skill trees you're proficient at. I'm not sure it's possible and Darkfall doesn't have it yet.
Asdar
I just wanted to say that the OP has the best DF review of read in a long time. No fanboism and no trolling, my hats off to a balanced and honest review of the game.
I was once a mad scientist
PvP MMOs that have skills--and that's all of them--need those skills balanced. The easiest way to do this, although it is by no means easy or ever finished, is to lump together a set of skills in a bundle and call that a "class." A developer can then build in things like penalties for heavy armor or bonuses for light armor into those boundaries...sprinkle in some CC and healing...tweak the values. This is the most common way to do it and we're all familiar with it.
"Sandbox" character development with no class boundaries is just an illusion. If done properly with well-balanced abilities--making some mutually exclusive--it simply results in the players themselves choosing the bundles of abilities resulting in player-designed classes. If it isn't done well you get a single "class." But in any case people will choose whatever works best.
This is especially the case in a "hardcore" PvP game with real penalties for death. Why in the world would someone choose a set of skills that is just going to get them beaten-up 95% of the time? It makes no sense to do anything other than go with the flow and tweak yourself into whatever gives you the best chance to compete.
I just think it's funny that people are surprised to see a world full of 2-hd, heavy-armored players with some healing and a little bit of ranged damage-dealing... don't call it a Paladin if that's just too WOWish for you, but that's pretty well what the players see as the best way to play atm.
It's funny but I have said many times in the class-balancing forums of many PvP games over the years that the only way to stop all the whining about the developers loving "X" class and hating "Y" class was to just give everyone one class to play and let them go at it. I was just being sarcastic, not trying to predict a boring simple future
well, i remember making a lot of different "classes" in UO... pre-cu swg had me always changing the skills i was currently using... eve has quite a diversity of "classes" that you can build into... i believe ryzom has where you can make the "class" you want as well...
it can be done. it's been done a number of times with quite a bit of success, i say this from playing and enjoying the above games. at least until stupidity destroyed two of them.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Macroing in MMOs has been around since the days of UO, so exactly which theme park MMO were those players conditioned by 10 years ago when they were grinding bone knights, 8x8, casting blade spirits under the stairs, etc.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
This.
Dont' both reasoning with Darth.. he just doesn't get it. anything less than 12/10 rating.. Darth doesn't comprehend..
this isn't an insult.. I'm just pointing out that a review that doesn't pain Darkfall in gold .. cannot be understood. For example, I don't like Thai food. it just doesn't suit me. Now, someone from Thailand might think I'm crazy.. same thing here.
Why not rename this thread to we don't reasoning / bother about Darth because he doesn't comprehend / is dumb / is fanboi etc..
I have said my opinion about the review , have discussed the rating have given reasons why people have given higher ratings (around 66 % in a recent poll) all in a polite manner ..
What i got is here people instead to discuss my arguments, start to bully me on a personal level..
Ok you don't like Thai food to remain on your example but you put a review and conclude a rating and say Thai food is a 3 / 10 for you ..ok accepted, but the rating is based on reasoning ..and the resoning behind is up for discussion if its posted on forum or not ?
I dont have a right to find reasons and anylyze why you have given your 3 / 10 voting ? and why io would have given a higher rating ? OP made a topic and set up for discussion and i do just that and discuss it ..if it wasn't for discussion ..he would have written a blog , or a column in magazine...or whatever..
So why i value, comment, give alternatives and reasons why i do so , all you say is don't bother reasoning ..
omg its not that i called OP review crap and made fun of him..i give just 2 simple comments about..
66 % give a higher rating then him..(me included)
that must be because the value of some features is more important to them then some flaws ..
Simple things...jesus ..
66% of what people where?
the people i surveyed were about 83% lower than the ops rating. some 7% simply replied with "wth... what is this crap"; which i counted simply as a zero.
interesting op however. really seems like all the cool stuff i read on the site IS gone. persistent world fps. whoop de doo
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
DR, again, you miss the point.
If or when mages begin destroying the current FOTM build, then mages will become the new FOTM, and most players will start building toward that. The original point stands - with skill-based games, unless produced by a very sophisticated developer, most of them devolve into one homogenous build ruling the game at any one time.
That kills the entire "freedom" claim. Sure, you're free to develop a FOTM build and be competitive, or you're free to build a weak character that can't compete. Not much of a decision there, really. So much for freedom.
It's great that you love the game, but being blind and rabid doesn't help. A little objectivity is a good thing.
good reply.
after all, FOTM means flavour of the month.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Well I didnt necessarily mean you HAVE to macro to get anywhere. Me and you are alike in the fact that we dont mind a good challenge, even if the challenge happens to be mindless clicking of a button for hours upon end (some might not consider this challenging at all, but thats another debate...)
The fact is, is that if people see a shortcut around a challenge in a game, and a work around this challenge will give them a benefit, they will take it.
My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
I am not claiming to offer any solutions to this, as I cant imagine how to implement a skill based system which does not encourage or even prevents macroing, but that doesnt mean the system isnt flawed, and these developers are getting payed to come up with answers to these kinds of questions. Answers to these kinds of questions are what make a dynamic and intricate system that rewards the hard working, not the cheating. Taking shortcuts or just throwing out some faulty system into the game world just makes it no fun for anyone, as the hard working just get screwed by the cheaters, and the cheaters (I would like to believe) would feel a greater sense of achievement if they didnt have to cheat to get somewhere.
Well I didnt necessarily mean you HAVE to macro to get anywhere. Me and you are alike in the fact that we dont mind a good challenge, even if the challenge happens to be mindless clicking of a button for hours upon end (some might not consider this challenging at all, but thats another debate...)
The fact is, is that if people see a shortcut around a challenge in a game, and a work around this challenge will give them a benefit, they will take it.
My criticism of the macro thing was not that you need to macro, just that the skill progression system in the game encourages macroing. Who can blame the macroers? Its almost common sense to take advantage of macroing the way they have it set up.
I am not claiming to offer any solutions to this, as I cant imagine how to implement a skill based system which does not encourage or even prevents macroing, but that doesnt mean the system isnt flawed, and these developers are getting payed to come up with answers to these kinds of questions. Answers to these kinds of questions are what make a dynamic and intricate system that rewards the hard working, not the cheating. Taking shortcuts or just throwing out some faulty system into the game world just makes it no fun for anyone, as the hard working just get screwed by the cheaters, and the cheaters (I would like to believe) would feel a greater sense of achievement if they didnt have to cheat to get somewhere.
UO/pre-cu SWG/EVE/Ryzom all have/had skill based systems which worked. they didn't discourage macroing; but they are/were interesting skill based systems.
uo/pre-cu swg had a skill cap, while eve/ryzom let you max everything (eventually).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Magic is just too out of wack with melee and archery. There was a post stating that high end archery has 30 dmg per shot and a high end firebolt has 40 dmg per shot. The difference is the cost per shot. It costs 2 expensive or havested reagents per shot for magic and 1 arrow for archery. Magic is much easier to dodge than archery so it makes no sence to spend 10k plus gold and/or hours of macros to gather 100's of thousands of reagents to reach the high end magic.
There is no payoff at the moment. It is a waste of time and gold to be a pure mage. The buffs are for other characters for the most part, you can't buff yourself. The debuffs don't do enough to be worth the reagent cost.
Regular PvP will always be melee based. Siege warfare with a very large clan that will fund your mage can be usefull at the start of battle. Once the clans are engaged, you will no longe be able to use your magic without killing your own clan.
It needs to have a major overhall before it is a viable option at the moment. By the time this is fixed, there will be more competition and it may be too late.
It is too bad, I had a ton of fun for a few weeks. It is starting to get old already though. Don't know if I can stick to grinding day after day. PvP is fun, but it can not sustain a game long term. There needs to be more in a MMO IMHO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Macroing in MMOs has been around since the days of UO, so exactly which theme park MMO were those players conditioned by 10 years ago when they were grinding bone knights, 8x8, casting blade spirits under the stairs, etc.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
Very well put heartless.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
Indeed, people did macro back then, as well.
The real fact of the matter is that people cheat. Additionally, people can and have cheated in just about any game ever invented. Perhaps this is simply part of the psyche of some people and perhaps it is exacerbated by the annonymity of the internet, where those predisposed to such behaivior feel secure in the fact that getting caught may be unlikely.
There is even a segment that do not view cheating as, well, cheating. I have played many of these types of games where someone will argue to their last breath that whatever particular exploit of the game mechanics happens to be their preferred gaming style is simply an advantage for the smart gamer.
In the end, to lay this issue soley at the feet of the Darkfall devs is ridiculous.
I have learned to play the game as the devs intended. If I fall behind to cheaters, so be it. I tend to ignore those people, on a social level, anyway.
(btw, this weekend I got no less then 6 players kicked for macroing and at least 1 banned for hacking. Wasn't really fun, but if I see them, I simply report them, as players with any integrity should probably do.)
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
no it isnt, its badly implementet features.
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
no it isnt, its badly implementet features.
You are kidding, right?
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
no it isnt, its badly implementet features.
You are kidding, right?
told you it was a strange thought for a fanbot
if it was really really fun to level your skill, do you really think people would macro as much?
Who can blame the macroers?
I am sorry, but I can. These individuals cheat in a video game and are, in my view, lacking in basic ethics. There are no excuses for people such as this.
It is never common sense to cheat, especially at a game.
i know this is a strange thought.
but why blame the players?
why not blame the game?
is it the players fault leveling some stuff is a long and boring grind?
no it isnt, its badly implementet features.
You are kidding, right?
told you it was a strange thought for a fanbot
if it was really really fun to level your skill, do you really think people would macro as much?
I suppose you prove my point. Thanks...
all i proved was the skillleveling is driving people to macro.
and thats a broken games fault, not the players
No. You proved that cheaters try to justify their cheating.
This.
Dont' both reasoning with Darth.. he just doesn't get it. anything less than 12/10 rating.. Darth doesn't comprehend..
this isn't an insult.. I'm just pointing out that a review that doesn't pain Darkfall in gold .. cannot be understood. For example, I don't like Thai food. it just doesn't suit me. Now, someone from Thailand might think I'm crazy.. same thing here.
Why not rename this thread to we don't reasoning / bother about Darth because he doesn't comprehend / is dumb / is fanboi etc..
I have said my opinion about the review , have discussed the rating have given reasons why people have given higher ratings (around 66 % in a recent poll) all in a polite manner ..
What i got is here people instead to discuss my arguments, start to bully me on a personal level..
Ok you don't like Thai food to remain on your example but you put a review and conclude a rating and say Thai food is a 3 / 10 for you ..ok accepted, but the rating is based on reasoning ..and the resoning behind is up for discussion if its posted on forum or not ?
I dont have a right to find reasons and anylyze why you have given your 3 / 10 voting ? and why io would have given a higher rating ? OP made a topic and set up for discussion and i do just that and discuss it ..if it wasn't for discussion ..he would have written a blog , or a column in magazine...or whatever..
So why i value, comment, give alternatives and reasons why i do so , all you say is don't bother reasoning ..
omg its not that i called OP review crap and made fun of him..i give just 2 simple comments about..
66 % give a higher rating then him..(me included)
that must be because the value of some features is more important to them then some flaws ..
Simple things...jesus ..
You are agruing that his opinion is incorrect based on your view of the game. You are saying that his opinion is WRONG. I prefer to not read what you reply. The fact that you've said that "it doesn't matter what's on their website, you are supposed to read the forums" before buying the product. I've dismissed you as a complete fanboi from that point on. Your logic is very flawed. You lack the basic concepts of understanding what a game company does, and is set out to due. You are brain washed by tasos, and it shows in every one of your posts. Yet, you constantly come in to any post that gives Darkfall an non-biased review, or any one that places it in the not so bright light you see it in, and tell them they are wrong. I used an analogy for you and I.
I know it may difficult for you to realize that not everyone likes Darkfall, or that just maybe, it's not all it's cracked up to be.. but sooner or later, you'll need to realize that. Best of luck to you.
it is not to difficult for me to realize that people dislike Darkfall, i got used to, Vaporware talk and bashing since first day i am here.. i have no problem with people not liking the game (i like people to not like the game because i want i dedicated and small playerbase) ..but i would like it if people not liking the game stay away from it ..not visit the forums, not troll..so people who stay and like the game can enjoy it ..
So, basically, you call anyone who gives a well-thought out review based on personal observations, a "troll?" The OP is performing a service - not only that, but he's using these forums for exactly what they were meant to be used for, and that is to give potential players an idea of what to expect.
No. You proved that cheaters try to justify their cheating.
to get an effect (macroing), you will need to have a cause (poor implemented features)
you are blaming the the effect, but by doing that you wont get rid of the cause and people will continue to cheat because its more fun to watch grass grow than it is to level your skills. ( for the record, im NOT defending cheaters at all, i dont like them either)
i blame the cause, and if the cause could be removed, there would be no effect (or atleast a very limited one)
No. You proved that cheaters try to justify their cheating.
Just like fanbois try to justify their love for this sub par game.
Thank you for a nice and decent review that few make the time to do these days.
Fact of the matter is, in a competitive PvP environment people will go out of their way to be the best. The simple fact that there is character progression will force many people to take any shortcuts available to them just to get their characters to be better.
It's not the players not playing the game correctly, it's the developers lacking the foresight when designing such a system who are at fault. Remember, eventhough this is a FPS type game, skills do give a slight advantage and as long they will continue to do so, players will continue to strive for those bonuses, no matter how small. It's the competitive nature of the game.
One can argue that you are the one who's playing incorrectly by not trying to stay competitive in a game based around competition and FFA PvP.
Indeed, people did macro back then, as well.
The real fact of the matter is that people cheat. Additionally, people can and have cheated in just about any game ever invented. Perhaps this is simply part of the psyche of some people and perhaps it is exacerbated by the annonymity of the internet, where those predisposed to such behaivior feel secure in the fact that getting caught may be unlikely.
There is even a segment that do not view cheating as, well, cheating. I have played many of these types of games where someone will argue to their last breath that whatever particular exploit of the game mechanics happens to be their preferred gaming style is simply an advantage for the smart gamer.
In the end, to lay this issue soley at the feet of the Darkfall devs is ridiculous.
I have learned to play the game as the devs intended. If I fall behind to cheaters, so be it. I tend to ignore those people, on a social level, anyway.
(btw, this weekend I got no less then 6 players kicked for macroing and at least 1 banned for hacking. Wasn't really fun, but if I see them, I simply report them, as players with any integrity should probably do.)
I'm not laying blame only on Aventurine I am well aware of hackers and people using exploits. Those types of gamers will always be present no matter what the developers do. However, Aventurine could've minimized their impact on the game world by implementing certain detection mechanisms into their game. Having most of the vital game functions done server-side would've helped also.
Aventurine are amateurs in the genre but the players who use cheats are to blame also. I often wonder what kind of a person uses cheats in the game. I mean it takes all of the fun out of it.
As far as macroing goes, the blame lies solely on Aventurine. They are the ones who designed their skill system and they are the ones who, in their attempt at mimicing UO's skill system, made it macro-friendly. They were also the ones sending out mixed signals. First macroing was ok, then only attended macroing was ok. Now macroing is not ok?
I'm glad that you're taking it upon yourself to combat macroers and hackers but your efforts may not be enough. The whole community needs to band together to deal with them. However, since some of the more populated guilds in DF have questionable history in previous games, I doubt that your efforts are shared by many.
Either way, good luck.