"tell me how WOW's gameplay does NOT make use of botting the most efficient way to advance"
The most efficient way to level in WoW is by doing quests and instances. The most efficient way to get items in WoW is by doing instances and using the token (badges, emblems) drops to buy gear.
A bot will not help in either of those cases. The way a bot will help someone is by grinding experience and gold. Since it's so easy to get to max level already in WoW and since gold is only used for fluff (mounts especially), that is hardly an efficient way to advance.
You seem to be confusing most efficient with unattended.
As I am quite aware of the ease at which one can level and I am also quite aware that after less then a month in game, you are now playing the end game. The majority of the end game revolves around accumulating gold in order to subsidize activities such as raiding and the accumulating of this gold, or accumulating specific faction, is indeed a grind. Therefore, being willing to bot 24/7 is the most efficient way to achieve this required accumulation, (next to paying real cash for bought gold, I suppose).
So no, I am not at all confused.
So how does exposing that DarkFall's macroing and hacking is just as bad or worse than WoW's botting make DarkFall a better game?
Yup, there are people botting in WoW... how does that fix DarkFall's macroing and hacking?
Yup, there are people botting in pretty much every MMO... how does that fix DarkFall's macroing and hacking?
Obviously macroing and hacking is a problem in DarkFall or Tasos wouldn't be mentioning it so many times since Release.
Can the same be said for WoW or the other MMOs? Is botting such a problem that they have to mention it time and time again in each news release?
Hmm... I wonder why? Perhaps because such a small percentage are doing it that while it's something that they have to deal with from time to time... it isn't a major problem?
Here's some of the quotes from Tasos about the issue...
"We have been permanently banning all accounts that we detect are using 3d party software exploits. Still, there are a few people who don’t understand this and continue installing and using these exploits. You will definitely be banned if you do this. No appeals and no excuses are accepted.
Macroing: We are working to address it at its source, but until then we need to enforce our policies. Before we do that we will appeal to players not actually playing the game to log off rather than leaving their character in-game. This will allow more people to be able to enjoy Darkfall instead of unmanned characters taking up server space. If you’re skilling up by not playing the game as it was intended, you will be kicked and repeated offenses will result in a ban. " 3-21-09
"We continue to aggressively detect and permanently ban exploiters using third party programs. We would like to assure the player-base that we're committed to protecting the game from these kinds of exploits. If you install and use one of these programs you will be permanently banned." 3-13-09
"We are continuing to ban players we detect are using third party exploit programs. If you're not using them, there's no reason to worry that you'll be banned for their use. " 3-11-09
"Today we started permanently banning accounts involved in using 3d party programs to exploit. Don't be surprised if you've used these programs and your account is banned. We'll continue doing this every day while simultaneously attacking these issues at their source." 3-09-09
"We are still getting a lot of questions about this so we'll clarify:
Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.
Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.
As of today we will aggressively detect any form of third party program exploiting. Detection is very simple on our end. The account names associated with any kind of exploiting will be permanently banned without warning. If you are using exploits, you WILL be banned. There will be no appeals and no excuses will be accepted. This is already covered in the Terms of Service which everyone needed to agree with before they could play Darkfall. " 3-06-09
"Anyone macroing within the tower protected areas will be warned once, and then kicked. Repeated violations could result in a ban. Spamming spells or any other disruptive macroing activity within the tower protected areas will be kicked without warning. Repeated violations could result in a ban.
Unattended macroing could get you kicked anywhere in the world depending on the situation. You engage in it at your own risk.
Any use of third party programs which modify or alter the game including cheats, hacks, mods, bots will instantly result in a permanent ban. There will be no appeal. No excuses such as “I was just testing” will be accepted. We will detect and enforce aggressively. " 3-03-09
So obviously even Tasos thinks it's a major problem. The only other issues that have gotten even close to as much press time from Tasos is the queueing and account management. So, from that I'd say it's safe to say that Tasos thinks it a pretty big problem.
Indeed. Though, when I played WOW, I used wonder what all those botters were actually doing. Same goes for EVE and, sadly, every other game I have ever played...
You see, the point you are missing is that I actually play Darkfall and do not cheat, nor do I feel the need to cheat. People that do, in fact, cheat, are simply cheaters. This is as true in this game, as it is in any other, regardless of an individual's personal reasons/justifications for doing so.
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
"tell me how WOW's gameplay does NOT make use of botting the most efficient way to advance"
The most efficient way to level in WoW is by doing quests and instances. The most efficient way to get items in WoW is by doing instances and using the token (badges, emblems) drops to buy gear.
A bot will not help in either of those cases. The way a bot will help someone is by grinding experience and gold. Since it's so easy to get to max level already in WoW and since gold is only used for fluff (mounts especially), that is hardly an efficient way to advance.
You seem to be confusing most efficient with unattended.
As I am quite aware of the ease at which one can level and I am also quite aware that after less then a month in game, you are now playing the end game. The majority of the end game revolves around accumulating gold in order to subsidize activities such as raiding and the accumulating of this gold, or accumulating specific faction, is indeed a grind. Therefore, being willing to bot 24/7 is the most efficient way to achieve this required accumulation, (next to paying real cash for bought gold, I suppose).
So no, I am not at all confused.
So how does exposing that DarkFall's macroing and hacking is just as bad or worse than WoW's botting make DarkFall a better game?
Darkfall is a better game, than WOW, in my opinion, because I like it better.
Cheating is another matter entirely and sadly is not simply an issue confined to just these two games.
Indeed. Though, when I played WOW, I used wonder what all those botters were actually doing. Same goes for EVE and, sadly, every other game I have ever played...
You see, the point you are missing is that I actually play Darkfall and do not cheat, nor do I feel the need to cheat. People that do, in fact, cheat, are simply cheaters. This is as true in this game, as it is in any other, regardless of an individual's personal reasons/justifications for doing so.
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
Agreed.
(We need more people of your character to play Darkfall. You should consider it. )
Indeed. Though, when I played WOW, I used wonder what all those botters were actually doing. Same goes for EVE and, sadly, every other game I have ever played...
You see, the point you are missing is that I actually play Darkfall and do not cheat, nor do I feel the need to cheat. People that do, in fact, cheat, are simply cheaters. This is as true in this game, as it is in any other, regardless of an individual's personal reasons/justifications for doing so.
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
Agreed.
(We need more people of your character to play Darkfall. You should consider it. )
Heh... there are a number of us who wouldn't mind playing DarkFall... once it get's things in a more finished state.
I'm glad that yourself and some others who post on this forum have fun playing DarkFall in it's current state.
Myself and some others have stayed true to what we've said all along, when we can try it for ourselves before we have to buy it... we will. (Go back and re-read my posting history).
When DarkFall offers a Free Trial to the game (back in Oct./Nov. we were asking for a true OPEN Beta as well) a good number of us will try it. There were a number of fans (most who don't post anymore, or very infrequently) guaranteeing that we would have that opportunity.
Tasos himself has said on numerous times that he wants the game to speak for itself, and that he wants to have everyone try it before they buy it. There is no better way to let the game speak for itself than a Free Trial.
How long will that take? Who knows. I can wait though.
I only play MMOs that I have been able to Open Beta test, or can try with a Free Trial. There are plenty of MMOs out there that offer those, and I have fun in quite a few of them... so I can choose to be picky with my playing time.
Tasos himself promised several times (and that is an undeniable fact):
1) that everybody would be able to try the game before paying once cent for it.
2) that there would be no pre-orders.
Of course, he lied for both of those promises, like for so many other things. When they saw their game sucked and that the majority of testers told them it's not ready for release, they tried to grab a max amount of money through pre-orders and forgot about the promised free trial.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Indeed. Though, when I played WOW, I used wonder what all those botters were actually doing. Same goes for EVE and, sadly, every other game I have ever played...
You see, the point you are missing is that I actually play Darkfall and do not cheat, nor do I feel the need to cheat. People that do, in fact, cheat, are simply cheaters. This is as true in this game, as it is in any other, regardless of an individual's personal reasons/justifications for doing so.
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
Agreed.
(We need more people of your character to play Darkfall. You should consider it. )
Heh... there are a number of us who wouldn't mind playing DarkFall... once it get's things in a more finished state.
I'm glad that yourself and some others who post on this forum have fun playing DarkFall in it's current state.
Myself and some others have stayed true to what we've said all along, when we can try it for ourselves before we have to buy it... we will. (Go back and re-read my posting history).
When DarkFall offers a Free Trial to the game (back in Oct./Nov. we were asking for a true OPEN Beta as well) a good number of us will try it. There were a number of fans (most who don't post anymore, or very infrequently) guaranteeing that we would have that opportunity.
Tasos himself has said on numerous times that he wants the game to speak for itself, and that he wants to have everyone try it before they buy it. There is no better way to let the game speak for itself than a Free Trial.
How long will that take? Who knows. I can wait though.
I only play MMOs that I have been able to Open Beta test, or can try with a Free Trial. There are plenty of MMOs out there that offer those, and I have fun in quite a few of them... so I can choose to be picky with my playing time.
I understand. Probably a good policy, considering some of the games I bought last year.
I just couldn't pass up a fantasy based sandbox game and for me at least, am glad I didn't.
It's Aventurine's fault for making macroing the most effective way to level seeing as leveling that way has no downfall, nor does it take away from the game, on the contrary, it makes the game less frustrating.
And I agree. It is aventurine's fault. Most games usually have macros after people get bored playing it the "right" way. Instead, they skipped the honeymoon phase when everything was new and exciting, and they only wanted to PLAY the game to the 30 year aniversery where there's nothing fun but the occasional weekend adventure (aka, when they have maxed skills and have time to play). I'm really surprised the fanboys don't see a problem with that. And it's even more sad that aventurine doesn't see a problem with it either. I guess the guys from "In Living Color" said it best, "Mo money, Mo money, Mo money!!"
I simply do not understand your point. To me, cheating in a video game is no different than cheating at any other game.
The excuse that cheating makes it easier holds true for every game ever invented.
The excuse that one needs to cheat because playing the game the proper way is boring simply tells me that perhaps, that individual should play some other game he finds more interesting.
As a result, I simply disagree your with argument based on your flawed premise.
cheating is wrong, we can all agree on that, right?
IF you agree that cheating is wrong, why dont you agree AV should do something about it, aka improving the game?
make it less attractive to cheat.
how on earth is making the game better so (most) people wont cheat a bad thing?
Well Taoes can talk through his ass to what he can do which is a joke anyways..The fact remains that cheating is here to stay..Regardless of what Df tries todo...I read not to long ago NcSoft just Ban 70 thousands players..Well the good news is, NcSoft did something about hacking/cheating..But the Bad news is..That is allot of players and loss of money for Ncsoft..
Making a game better to prevent cheating is like Microsoft trying to stop hackers.Lets go for another update shall we?
To Op Nice write up...
Mod edit spelling
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
Comments
The most efficient way to level in WoW is by doing quests and instances. The most efficient way to get items in WoW is by doing instances and using the token (badges, emblems) drops to buy gear.
A bot will not help in either of those cases. The way a bot will help someone is by grinding experience and gold. Since it's so easy to get to max level already in WoW and since gold is only used for fluff (mounts especially), that is hardly an efficient way to advance.
You seem to be confusing most efficient with unattended.
As I am quite aware of the ease at which one can level and I am also quite aware that after less then a month in game, you are now playing the end game. The majority of the end game revolves around accumulating gold in order to subsidize activities such as raiding and the accumulating of this gold, or accumulating specific faction, is indeed a grind. Therefore, being willing to bot 24/7 is the most efficient way to achieve this required accumulation, (next to paying real cash for bought gold, I suppose).
So no, I am not at all confused.
So how does exposing that DarkFall's macroing and hacking is just as bad or worse than WoW's botting make DarkFall a better game?
Yup, there are people botting in WoW... how does that fix DarkFall's macroing and hacking?
Yup, there are people botting in pretty much every MMO... how does that fix DarkFall's macroing and hacking?
Obviously macroing and hacking is a problem in DarkFall or Tasos wouldn't be mentioning it so many times since Release.
Can the same be said for WoW or the other MMOs? Is botting such a problem that they have to mention it time and time again in each news release?
Hmm... I wonder why? Perhaps because such a small percentage are doing it that while it's something that they have to deal with from time to time... it isn't a major problem?
Here's some of the quotes from Tasos about the issue...
"We have been permanently banning all accounts that we detect are using 3d party software exploits. Still, there are a few people who don’t understand this and continue installing and using these exploits. You will definitely be banned if you do this. No appeals and no excuses are accepted.
Macroing: We are working to address it at its source, but until then we need to enforce our policies. Before we do that we will appeal to players not actually playing the game to log off rather than leaving their character in-game. This will allow more people to be able to enjoy Darkfall instead of unmanned characters taking up server space. If you’re skilling up by not playing the game as it was intended, you will be kicked and repeated offenses will result in a ban. " 3-21-09
"We continue to aggressively detect and permanently ban exploiters using third party programs. We would like to assure the player-base that we're committed to protecting the game from these kinds of exploits. If you install and use one of these programs you will be permanently banned." 3-13-09
"We are continuing to ban players we detect are using third party exploit programs. If you're not using them, there's no reason to worry that you'll be banned for their use. " 3-11-09
"Today we started permanently banning accounts involved in using 3d party programs to exploit. Don't be surprised if you've used these programs and your account is banned. We'll continue doing this every day while simultaneously attacking these issues at their source." 3-09-09
"We are still getting a lot of questions about this so we'll clarify:
Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.
Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.
As of today we will aggressively detect any form of third party program exploiting. Detection is very simple on our end. The account names associated with any kind of exploiting will be permanently banned without warning. If you are using exploits, you WILL be banned. There will be no appeals and no excuses will be accepted. This is already covered in the Terms of Service which everyone needed to agree with before they could play Darkfall. " 3-06-09
"Anyone macroing within the tower protected areas will be warned once, and then kicked. Repeated violations could result in a ban. Spamming spells or any other disruptive macroing activity within the tower protected areas will be kicked without warning. Repeated violations could result in a ban.
Unattended macroing could get you kicked anywhere in the world depending on the situation. You engage in it at your own risk.
Any use of third party programs which modify or alter the game including cheats, hacks, mods, bots will instantly result in a permanent ban. There will be no appeal. No excuses such as “I was just testing” will be accepted. We will detect and enforce aggressively. " 3-03-09
All quotes from here:
forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php
So obviously even Tasos thinks it's a major problem. The only other issues that have gotten even close to as much press time from Tasos is the queueing and account management. So, from that I'd say it's safe to say that Tasos thinks it a pretty big problem.
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
The most efficient way to level in WoW is by doing quests and instances. The most efficient way to get items in WoW is by doing instances and using the token (badges, emblems) drops to buy gear.
A bot will not help in either of those cases. The way a bot will help someone is by grinding experience and gold. Since it's so easy to get to max level already in WoW and since gold is only used for fluff (mounts especially), that is hardly an efficient way to advance.
You seem to be confusing most efficient with unattended.
As I am quite aware of the ease at which one can level and I am also quite aware that after less then a month in game, you are now playing the end game. The majority of the end game revolves around accumulating gold in order to subsidize activities such as raiding and the accumulating of this gold, or accumulating specific faction, is indeed a grind. Therefore, being willing to bot 24/7 is the most efficient way to achieve this required accumulation, (next to paying real cash for bought gold, I suppose).
So no, I am not at all confused.
So how does exposing that DarkFall's macroing and hacking is just as bad or worse than WoW's botting make DarkFall a better game?
Darkfall is a better game, than WOW, in my opinion, because I like it better.
Cheating is another matter entirely and sadly is not simply an issue confined to just these two games.
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
Agreed.
(We need more people of your character to play Darkfall. You should consider it.
)
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
Agreed.
(We need more people of your character to play Darkfall. You should consider it.
)
Heh... there are a number of us who wouldn't mind playing DarkFall... once it get's things in a more finished state.
I'm glad that yourself and some others who post on this forum have fun playing DarkFall in it's current state.
Myself and some others have stayed true to what we've said all along, when we can try it for ourselves before we have to buy it... we will. (Go back and re-read my posting history).
When DarkFall offers a Free Trial to the game (back in Oct./Nov. we were asking for a true OPEN Beta as well) a good number of us will try it. There were a number of fans (most who don't post anymore, or very infrequently) guaranteeing that we would have that opportunity.
Tasos himself has said on numerous times that he wants the game to speak for itself, and that he wants to have everyone try it before they buy it. There is no better way to let the game speak for itself than a Free Trial.
How long will that take? Who knows. I can wait though.
I only play MMOs that I have been able to Open Beta test, or can try with a Free Trial. There are plenty of MMOs out there that offer those, and I have fun in quite a few of them... so I can choose to be picky with my playing time.
Tasos himself promised several times (and that is an undeniable fact):
1) that everybody would be able to try the game before paying once cent for it.
2) that there would be no pre-orders.
Of course, he lied for both of those promises, like for so many other things. When they saw their game sucked and that the majority of testers told them it's not ready for release, they tried to grab a max amount of money through pre-orders and forgot about the promised free trial.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I don't miss that point at all.
I think you made it very clear that you don't cheat and how you think about cheaters.
And I could not agree more with you on that point. I was not argueing that point with you, I just answered your (probably rethoric, but whatever) question about WoW bots.
Even if a bot would be more usefull than I think they are, I would still not use it. For the simple reason that I play games on my computer for enjoyment, I can not understand why someone would let the computer play a game for them. Well, I can understand actually, people would do this after they don't see the game as a game anymore. But in my opinion that is the time to quit.
Agreed.
(We need more people of your character to play Darkfall. You should consider it.
)
Heh... there are a number of us who wouldn't mind playing DarkFall... once it get's things in a more finished state.
I'm glad that yourself and some others who post on this forum have fun playing DarkFall in it's current state.
Myself and some others have stayed true to what we've said all along, when we can try it for ourselves before we have to buy it... we will. (Go back and re-read my posting history).
When DarkFall offers a Free Trial to the game (back in Oct./Nov. we were asking for a true OPEN Beta as well) a good number of us will try it. There were a number of fans (most who don't post anymore, or very infrequently) guaranteeing that we would have that opportunity.
Tasos himself has said on numerous times that he wants the game to speak for itself, and that he wants to have everyone try it before they buy it. There is no better way to let the game speak for itself than a Free Trial.
How long will that take? Who knows. I can wait though.
I only play MMOs that I have been able to Open Beta test, or can try with a Free Trial. There are plenty of MMOs out there that offer those, and I have fun in quite a few of them... so I can choose to be picky with my playing time.
I understand. Probably a good policy, considering some of the games I bought last year.
I just couldn't pass up a fantasy based sandbox game and for me at least, am glad I didn't.
Hope to see you in game, in the future.
Here's the problem.
It's Aventurine's fault for making macroing the most effective way to level seeing as leveling that way has no downfall, nor does it take away from the game, on the contrary, it makes the game less frustrating.
And I agree. It is aventurine's fault. Most games usually have macros after people get bored playing it the "right" way. Instead, they skipped the honeymoon phase when everything was new and exciting, and they only wanted to PLAY the game to the 30 year aniversery where there's nothing fun but the occasional weekend adventure (aka, when they have maxed skills and have time to play). I'm really surprised the fanboys don't see a problem with that. And it's even more sad that aventurine doesn't see a problem with it either. I guess the guys from "In Living Color" said it best, "Mo money, Mo money, Mo money!!"
I simply do not understand your point. To me, cheating in a video game is no different than cheating at any other game.
The excuse that cheating makes it easier holds true for every game ever invented.
The excuse that one needs to cheat because playing the game the proper way is boring simply tells me that perhaps, that individual should play some other game he finds more interesting.
As a result, I simply disagree your with argument based on your flawed premise.
cheating is wrong, we can all agree on that, right?
IF you agree that cheating is wrong, why dont you agree AV should do something about it, aka improving the game?
make it less attractive to cheat.
how on earth is making the game better so (most) people wont cheat a bad thing?
Well Taoes can talk through his ass to what he can do which is a joke anyways..The fact remains that cheating is here to stay..Regardless of what Df tries todo...I read not to long ago NcSoft just Ban 70 thousands players..Well the good news is, NcSoft did something about hacking/cheating..But the Bad news is..That is allot of players and loss of money for Ncsoft..
Making a game better to prevent cheating is like Microsoft trying to stop hackers.Lets go for another update shall we?
To Op Nice write up...
Mod edit spelling
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"